Mini 774: Case Closed Mafia (One Truth Prevails!)

[StrangerCoug]

I hereby understand and confirm my role.

[StrangerCoug]

Vote: afatchic

for the absolute worst case I've seen of sucking.

[StrangerCoug]

Vote: Millar13

for taking an anti-town policy in order to help his scum play.

FOS:BATTUOSAI

for applying "tactics" in the random voting stage

And the thing wrong with that is?

[StrangerCoug]

Vote: afatchic

for the absolute worst case I've seen of sucking.

That's a nice OMGUS you got there.

Exactly

[StrangerCoug]

Vote: Millar13

for taking an anti-town policy in order to help his scum play.

FOS:BATTUOSAI

for applying "tactics" in the random voting stage

And the thing wrong with that is?

I've only known scum players to try and make a game serious A.S.A.P
so doing so was a scum tell

By that same token,

YOU

could be scummy for trying to start serious discussion at the earliest possible moment. I don't see anything serious about Battousai's vote, nor do I see anything wrong with applying tactics in the random voting stage since truly random votes, e.g. voting with dice, are actually frowned upon. Random voting does not last forever as Mafia is not a game of Russian roulette. Therefore, I'm questioning the validity of your FoS.

Unvote: afatchic
Vote: millar13

Hey, guys! I found a good wagon here!

[StrangerCoug]

How can miller be blamed for trying to start serious discussion after Battousai already made it serious? seriously SC...

Uh... Go through my thought processes in post #34 again.n

[StrangerCoug]

Vote: Millar13

for taking an anti-town policy in order to help his scum play.

Explain how that's applying tactics, Korlash.

[StrangerCoug]

Scum on the retreat? Lurking back into the shadow at the first sign of attention.
Still very much 50/50 on you at the moment...as I'm not sure how that makes you look. But since we are still in the early stage of the day, and you are the only really the first person to stand up to the plate it could be a case that the real mafia are lurking in the wings.

Whom are you talking to?

[StrangerCoug]

Wait a minute—shoot me if I know why this from post #42 blew past me.

Strangecoug is probably a townie who believes he is a "scum-hunter" but is going in all gones blazing. You really don't need to put your vote down at the first possible chance. A town player doesn't need to rush into a vote, and FOS first normally work better in your favor.

As for Firestarter: I think that you are likely a scum partner who has seen this comment

Strangecoug:
"Hey, guys! I found a good wagon here!"

And used it to your advantage by doing just that. Forming a wagon so early in a game really is quite a scummy thing to do, for the simple fact that at Page 2 wagons shouldn't form.

How can you simultaneously think that I'm both townie playing too aggressively and Firestarter's scumbuddy? I am sorry, but even if the argument on whether you or Battousai was trying to employ tactics in the random voting stage is complete trivia, your logical fail is giving me good reason to leave my vote where it is.

And I still think you should be bandwagoned. You're cracking under pressure. Town should not be doing that.

[StrangerCoug]

I clearly made an error...I meant to say that Firestarter was a scum member (not scum partner) I have no reason to beleive that yourself (Strangecoug) is actually aligned with that.

Regardless, you really need to watch what you type

Am I cracking under pressure? Not that I noticed.

Your commenting about how you fear looking scummy is cracking under pressure.

And believe it or not Firestarer comment in Post 49, actually indicate what i feel about wagon's in the early game...even if I am convinced he is the most likely scum member at the moment. Although, not enough active players have sprouted to give a fully loaded judgement.

Firestarter may simply be playing more cautiously at this point than I am. His most recent vote was on afatchic, which I assume is his second random vote, which he pulled. He has yet to vote you, probably because he's trying to get more information out of you. (He does suspect you.)

Bandwagons are often used in early stages, by over-eager mafia members or town members looking to be part of an easy lynch so that they don't feel to guilty about it if they are in heavy unison. With that being said, I think Strangecoug your heart is in the right place just searching in the wrong direction.

Why do you believe I am town over scum?

[StrangerCoug]

How is it not applying tactics?

I personally thought it was just as any other random vote would be, but you sufficiently answered my question.

[StrangerCoug]

In terms of Strangecoug he is coming off as a generic town player, I have played with a number of times.

I'm sorry, but your name does not ring a bell outside of an ongoing. Who did you use to be?

[StrangerCoug]

I'm not saying I played with you a number of times. I am just saying you came off loooking like generic town players; whom I have player with a number of times.

Once again, you

REALLY

need to watch what you're saying. I thought that you meant I was playing as I specifically, rather than your standard everyday scummer, do as town. The more you blunder your way through this game, the less likely I'll think you're town.

[StrangerCoug]

Hmm... Ok..

I agreed that the other players should at least post on whats been happening here before anything else happens...

UNVOTE: millar13

MAJOR FoS: millar13

Minor FoS: Firestarter

. Don't be so quick to retract a vote.

[StrangerCoug]

SC looks town to me.

And the reasoning you give for it is extremely vague, especially since you said people bandwagon regardless of alignment. I know I left out the overeager part of it, but your leaning a specific way on what you essentially consider a null tell is still really disturbing.

[StrangerCoug]

Only saw Post 85, after I post 86.

That is actually a really good point Battousai. Maybe Strangecoug doesn't think the "generic townie mould" as I previously thought. Mhmmmm *literally rubbing my chin*

What meaning does "generic townie" have to a game of Mafia? Is there such a thing as a generic person in real life, for that matter?

Yes, I've been known to go hard on players. Very hard. I understand that nobody in this game is God, but neither does anybody have the right to blunder through the game like you are without expecting at least some scrutiny.

Besides you, Firestarter does seem a bit off. Not to play both sides of the fence, but he is saying a lot of bad stuff about you yet hasn't revoted you. His quick retraction (which he defended as voting too soon) is not enough to warrant a vote, but I am looking at him, so don't call me tunnel-visioned even though I've mostly gone after you so far.

All I have to say is, strangercoug is taking this way too seriously. The first blunder, yes I can see how it could be seen as scum mistake or even a Freudian slip with Firestarter, but the second one. Come on, I understood what he meant, and even if you didn't how is saying I played with you a lot scummy. And then you threaten him for not being as clear.

It is my fault that I misinterpreted the second thing I called millar13 out for. As I said above, no one in this game is God, and I regret having committed that error. There are other things I'm pressing on him for, however. His voiced fear about looking scummy is quite more telling than posting something that a third party reads in error.

[StrangerCoug]

Firestarter does seem a bit off. Not to play both sides of the fence, but he is saying a lot of bad stuff about you yet hasn't revoted you. His quick retraction (which he defended as voting too soon) is not enough to warrant a vote, but I am looking at him, so don't call me tunnel-visioned even though I've mostly gone after you so far.

Hang on for a second...

Ive explained why i retracted my vote, its as clear as day.

Other than what Ive explained, how else am I "off?

Read what you quoted again, even if it's obsolete.

Firestarter claims null-tells can't give reads. Have you meta'd Millar yet? If so, you should know that he is an Empking, or a Zwet, meaning that most of the stuff you are accusing him of are null-tells.

Or, to some extent, a StrangerCoug. I'm getting better, though.

We just found millar13's scumbuddy...

And you're not saying who it is straight up because?

Also I would like to know where both Korlash and Strangecoug stand at the moment, considering these are the only other active two that really have contributed anything of reall value thus far to this game

I've already said what I think about you, and Firestarter's going downhill.

Ok, millar13, you have 2 hours to post your case on me, Ill be gone for this time.

I don't think two hours is a fair time limit. Upgrade to an

HoS: Firestarter

.

[StrangerCoug]

Now you clearly are not just a plain vanilla townie...that is more than clear from post 121. Clearly you are sitting on some sort of power position (I doubt you pro-town, so the assumption almost concretes scum) otherwise you wouldn't be so frustrated and resorting to using offensive language. Why would someone with no real power feel the need to swear and your such horrible and disgusting I do not know.

This is an awfully weak attack, and I'm hearing WIFOM bells go off. The case itself is good, though.

[StrangerCoug]

1.

I dont need to read it again, you explained that I answered about the vote/unvote of millar13, I wanted to know why you were still keeping an "eye" on me, as you did not make that 2nd point clear.

Your mouth was not where your money was, or however the saying goes. If you want to argue that you're not the kind of person that uses FoS's, then go straight ahead.

2.

This post came straight after Isaac's post attacking me with the exact same horseshit millar13 posted. Not only that, but there was very little content about anyone else.. very little. Sounded defensive of millar13, and I like to pressurise where I can.

Understood.

3.

At the time, millar13 was online with me, and we were posting within minutes of each other. Is it so unreasonable to think he was still there when I posted that post?
Not only that, but he blatantly refused to post his case as requested by me several times. This is clear SC.
You placed a HoS on me for asking for millars case, which he blankly refused to do, yet I get the HoS... ?????

I do not pay much attention to whether or not people are on, but nevertheless I think it's scummy to force people to do stuff or else. The two-hour time limit gave me that impression. What if you told

ME

"you have two hours to post a case on me or else" and I don't read it until after the two hours elapsed because I had to get off and let someone else have a turn (currently something I have to do), or worse yet, go to bed because I had to work early?

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: I generally use bold capitals for emphasis, so if I forget about what you said could you unbold what you don't want bolded for me?

From now on I am IGNORING you.

I understand your frustration, but this is not a good strategy in Mafia.

From what I see at this point, Firestarter and millar13 might as well be bussing each other. Firestarter is going downhill at this point, and while millar13's gotten better, there are still some black marks on him that I'm not going to forget about anytime soon.

Unvote: millar13
Vote: Firestarter

. This is L-2.

[StrangerCoug]

I see more unreasoned accusations SC...

Firestarter is going downhill... twice now you've said it.

Any particular reasons?

Largely millar13's case. Yes, I just accused him of bussing you (and vice versa ), but as I said, the case is good. I'm looking at #126 minus the first paragraph. Most of what concerns me about millar13 is the early part of this game. You, on the other hand, have been responding very poorly to pressure lately

And would you not wait till I post my case on millar13 before changing your vote?

Or is it merely tactical?

Remember that I was voting millar13 before I switched to you. If I believe that my top two suspects are equally scummy, I will vote the person closer to getting lynched so my vote does not act as dead weight. (If they're tied, I'll pick the one I'm more confident in.) I wait for nobody.

[StrangerCoug]

@ Strangercoug

Largely millar13's case. Yes, I just accused him of bussing you (and vice versa ), but as I said, the case is good. I'm looking at #126 minus the first paragraph. Most of what concerns me about millar13 is the early part of this game. You, on the other hand, have been responding very poorly to pressure lately.

When I flip town, does your "Idea" of millar & me bussing each other excuse him from a lynching?

OK, Firestarter, what the hell? I did say that millar13's been getting better, but he's still suspicious in my mind; if he weren't, I would not have made the bussing accusation. If you die and flip town, there will still be stuff that I can get on millar13 for.

You say Ive been responding poorly to pressure, and that Ive been going downhill...
At least have the balls to point to some examples, I cannot defend against the invisible.

This is the first time I suspected you:

Hmm... Ok..

I agreed that the other players should at least post on whats been happening here before anything else happens...

UNVOTE: millar13

MAJOR FoS: millar13

I said you were too quick to retract your vote, and you said that you voted too quickly. I believe that much from you.

3.

Ultimately All means you have nothing to go on?
Ultimately is described in any dictionary as...

as the end result of a succession or process

I would have voted millar13 on this alone, but millar13 already did some things that set me off. Your hesitation to vote him when he was clearly acting scummy comes off to me as defending a scumbuddy, and we all know the bad that comes out of that.

We just found millar13's scumbuddy...

You said that this was directed at Isacc. Just from looking, this is pretty much OMGUS.

Lynch me, and when I flip town, lynch him.

Lining up lynches for the lose.

NOW do you think my accusations are unreasoned?

[StrangerCoug]

SC I don't think I am bussing at all, my attitude towards Firestarter really hasn't changed for the entire game. The fact that I was the first person to point to him, and the first person to bring any sort of view of scumminess sort of shows that. If you think it is because I wasn't the first too vote then your wrong. The truth is, that if I had voted first it wouldn't have been as effective or made as much sense as if I had actually waited for what my fellow town members had to say. If I am right, this is a team effort?

Apparently, Sajin defines bussing a little more strictly than I do. I think your case on Firestarter is great, and I believe most of it, but you're doing things yourself that's setting off alarms. That's all I think I need for a bussing accusation—you can be the first person to vote somebody and still be bussing that person.

[StrangerCoug]

There are also interactions Im not happy with between M13 and Issac and SC.

I do remember you accusing Isacc of being millar13's scumbuddy, and I've said several times that I'm not happy with some things I'm seeing out of the latter. What interactions between Isacc and me, however, are you referring to? I think this is the first time you've grouped the two of us together.

[StrangerCoug]

SC, do you have nothing to add from the case I just posted, other than worry about yourself?

No. The post you're talking about is a good case against millar13, who in turn has a good case against you. However, for at least the third time now, I think you and millar13 are bussing each other. Because I've called both of you out for your actions, I believe that I have made a logical deduction.

Also, I am not worrying about myself; I am trying to figure out how you think Isacc and I are connected, as I do not know. I am one of those "tell me, damn it" types of people, and not only does dodging my question like that tell me absolutely nothing useful about what you think about us, but it hurts the town more than it helps it.

[StrangerCoug]

I don't buy Firestarter, but the name claim has nothing to do with it. I agree that he shouldn't talk about it like there's nothing else to talk about, though. "I'm so and so, and I do such and such" would have be enough for me.

[StrangerCoug]

I was told I was so and so, I was not told I do such and such.

Well, the basic idea was there anyway.

sajin looked ok early on, but the more I read his posts, the more I got a bad vibe from him.

How so?

SC.. I dont know.. Seemed to go from M13 to me, M13 and back to me again... It could be considered a scum gambit, voting and being suspicious of the 2 in the biggest battle so far, and waiting to see who loses.

Dude. Wake up. I am not going back and forth between the two of you. I suspected originally millar13 only, and then both him and you. My levels of suspicion have changed, but they're changing at a rather constant rate. They haven't been fluctuating much like you imply.

[StrangerCoug]

SC, I get bad vibes from sajin, that is all atm.

You have accused me of certain things specifically (we know what they are), yet Sajin is scummier than me based on gut. This is making absolutely no sense to me.

[StrangerCoug]

Stranger, on page three you goofed, you said firestarter hadn't voted for millar at all, and his last vote was fatchic. Wrong, his last vote WAS on millar (post 35). Unless, I've misread that is.[/url]
Oops.

Ok, fire and stranger riding millar was working. he was breaking, but you guys took it a bit far. You were nitpicking over really inane things, like his wording.

I'm sorry, but it takes more than "you're overdoing this" to get me to relax the pressure.

I would like you to pick a person who is most scummy to you right now, and explain WHY they are scummy.

The catch: NO ONE pick Millar or Fire.

Blast you, those were my two big leads >< Of the actives besides them, probably Isacc for

ad hominem

.

Mod: Please prod GhostWriter.

[StrangerCoug]

@SC: Me for ad hominem? Quotes please? I'm pretty sure I was the one yelling at Firestarter for using ad hominem >.<

This stood out looking at your posts in isolation:

You.
Cannot.
Read.

Go.
To.
Kindergarten.

I can't blame you for getting frustrated, though.

[StrangerCoug]

Well that's hardly the worst thing I've read on this site... And if you can't blame him for being frustrated then I don't see how you can honestly accuse him of Ad Hominem...

I wouldn't like to be told to go back to kindergarten either. I am implying that there are other ways he could have gone about it, though.

[StrangerCoug]

@SC: Me for ad hominem? Quotes please? I'm pretty sure I was the one yelling at Firestarter for using ad hominem >.<

This stood out looking at your posts in isolation:

You.
Cannot.
Read.

Go.
To.
Kindergarten.

I can't blame you for getting frustrated, though.

Well that's hardly the worst thing I've read on this site... And if you can't blame him for being frustrated then I don't see how you can honestly accuse him of Ad Hominem...

I wouldn't like to be told to go back to kindergarten either. I am implying that there are other ways he could have gone about it, though.

SC, why are you picking out a point with Isaac, only to seem to agree with him afterwards?

I think he agrees with the sentiment but not the implementation, Fire

That is true, but also, Lindisfarne asking me who my top suspect other than Firestarter and millar13 is made me go back and reread. Isacc is the only other person to post something I found objectionable. I'll tell you that the lurkers need to be yelled at as well, though (I specifically said "of the actives" in my response). If you ask me, advocating a lurker lynch is something to be done as a last resort let alone on Day 1.

I'd hate to change the subject from Isacc, but I agree that it's a minor thing I'm getting him on, and something else is getting on my nerves right now that I have yet to bring up: Firestarter seems not to care about being lynched, which to me is tantamount to resignation from the game, yet he's still pushing millar13 and me. I'm confused as to whether he really wants to continue playing.

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: Please prod afatchic.

[StrangerCoug]

I'm on page 6 and already afraid that there is gonna be a smart myslinch regarding Fire.

Excuse me, but, uh... "smart mislynch"? The only way I'm making sense of this is if you know Firestarter to be town, which is impossible in a day start unless you're scum.

FoS: alexhans

[StrangerCoug]

Notice the afraid? You're stretching. I never said he was town. I just had that fear. A quicklynch can be disastrous and after your vote on page 6 it sure seemed going that way.

I think the word "smart" is more important. Mislynching is smart only for scum. Of the interpretations of "smart mislynch" that are coming to mind, none usually end up being very good for the town.

Fosing me for the first thing I write? Is it because you know I've seen you as scum and think I may tunnelvission you or something?

Uhh... The only game so far we've both played, you replaced me as scum. I don't know what bearing the tunnel vision question has here.

[StrangerCoug]

Yes. It is smart for scum to accomplish a mislynch... So? (I mean, as you will se when I order my notes and post, that there is probably scum in that waggon)

I'm starting to see where you're getting at, but we don't know whether Firestarter is scum or simply town acting scummy. That's the problem I see with your statement.

I'd rather Firestarter defend himself, but if you believe the cases on him to be crap, say so and explain why.

[StrangerCoug]

I believe that makes it L-1. Firestarter, if you really want to play, then it's high time you did some scumhunting. Otherwise, self-hammer right now. I'm pretty sure you're scum, but I haven't forgotten millar13, and alexhans is somebody that I'm looking at too.

[StrangerCoug]

Firestarter claims null-tells can't give reads. Have you meta'd Millar yet? If so, you should know that he is an Empking, or a Zwet, meaning that most of the stuff you are accusing him of are null-tells.

Or, to some extent, a StrangerCoug. I'm getting better, though.

So this is all you had to say about Isaac's hasty post?

Pretty much.

We just found millar13's scumbuddy...

And you're not saying who it is straight up because?

Isaac had posted right before that. While I don't agree with Fire's quick association I don't see why would you have missed this.

What you quote from Firestarter is all he said in that post. He didn't make any references to whom, and I didn't make the connection that it was a comment about the previous poster.

Also I would like to know where both Korlash and Strangecoug stand at the moment, considering these are the only other active two that really have contributed anything of reall value thus far to this game

I've already said what I think about you, and Firestarter's going downhill.

Ok, millar13, you have 2 hours to post your case on me, Ill be gone for this time.

I don't think two hours is a fair time limit. Upgrade to an

HoS: Firestarter

.

WHY???? WHY DO YOU ACCUSE FIRE?
the only "case" you had on him was his not voting Millar...

FoS:StrangerCoug

Uh, hello? Firestarter's mouth was not where his money was. Don't you dare generalize my cases!

From what I see at this point, Firestarter and millar13 might as well be bussing each other

Bussing each other day 1???? Why do you see the need to do that? This is you again trying to make both suspicious as if you liked to see one lynched today and the other tomorrow.

OK, first off, your implication that scum would not bus on Day 1 is WIFOM. I've done it as scum myself, although doing so in that particular game was very dangerous and a contributing factor to my loss.

Also, accusing two people of trying to bus each other ≠ lining up lynches.

Remember that I was voting millar13 before I switched to you. If I believe that my top two suspects are equally scummy, I will vote the person closer to getting lynched so my vote does not act as dead weight

So here you're excusing that you will vote the most likely to get lynched...

I thought it was clear that I had two suspects for most of this game. While millar13 has cleaned himself up, I do not see a good reason to give him a

tabula rasa

. Firestarter was going up on my scumdar, and I switched when my suspicions of both were pretty close to par with each other.

Most of what concerns me about millar13 is the early part of this game. You, on the other hand, have been responding very poorly to pressure lately

This attacking without examples... Why you think he responded bad under pressure? I think his defense post was pretty decent.

millar13 is guilty of making slips early in the game and tried to defend them by saying his fingers were broken, which I don't buy. Firestarter is guilty of several misrepresentations. For example, somehow in #159 he thinks that millar13 will be cleared in my mind if he gets lynched and flips town, which isn't true. (It will obviously be wrong that they were bussing, but the rest of my case on millar13 will remain valid.) In addition, he's also dodged my question about his opinion about a connection between Isacc and me by asking if I have anything to say about his case other than worry about myself (yeah, right—if you don't understand something, then asking about it is one of the most pro-town things you can do), and most recently he's been giving confusing signals as to whether or not he really wants to stay in this game.

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: Could you delete the closing quote tag before "WHY???? WHY DO YOU ACCUSE FIRE?" in my previous post please?[/color]

[StrangerCoug]

EBWOP:

Mod: Could you delete the closing quote tag before "WHY???? WHY DO YOU ACCUSE FIRE?" in my previous post please?

Done. Also, looking for a replacment for Ghost Writer now in addition to Rage.

[StrangerCoug]

OK. But what did you the impression of bussing?

Both have made cases against each other and both are scummy.

Now seeking replacements for:
Rage
Ghost Writer
Afatchic

wha-a-a-a-t? 3 people must be replaced? (and there is already 2 replacements...)
That sucks.

I had to find seven replacements for Mini 716, all on Day 1. (What's ironic is that the game lasted a month, which is short by MS standards.)

The problem with that post is you went from EVERYONE to just two people. You didn't relate to why, and how it was changed. You over exaggerated and to make matters worse didn't actually bother to quote, which mean you already knew you were trying to make it sound more than it actually was. It might seem like a null-tell, but after a while enough null tells form a foundational base for a scum member.

That's a very good case against alexhans there

I don't understand how do you reach the conclusion that if millar is scummy he could be bussing.

It is impossible to bus as town, for starters.

Maybe he is scum and he is buddying,

"Buddying"? I define that as defending a player in a scummy manner, and I don't see where millar13 and Firestarter have defended each other all game.

I don't buy Firestarter, but the name claim has nothing to do with it. I agree that he shouldn't talk about it like there's nothing else to talk about, though. "I'm so and so, and I do such and such" would have be enough for me.

If you thought he should talk about something else... Why not tell him what?

Telling Firestarter what exactly to talk about is not my job. If he's smart, he'll come up with something worth discussing on his own.

Why not asking questions?

I've BEEN asking questions.

[StrangerCoug]

That's a very good case against alexhans there

Why I don't find him agreeing with millar surprising if it involves making his only attacker scummy? 1) he befriends millar 2) he attacks me 3) he doesn't state reasons.

The standout here is that two people ≠ everybody.

"Buddying"? I define that as defending a player in a scummy manner, and I don't see where millar13 and Firestarter have defended each other all game.

I meant that any of them can be S/s, t/t or s/t... I don't see how would you think one is more likely than the other

I am not here to explain the same thing 10,000 times. I have already talked why I believe both of them to be scum, and anybody paying attention to this game knows that the two have been presenting cases against and are voting each other. Some of the cases the one has made against the other are actually decent.

I've BEEN asking questions.

at the beginning at millar. yes.
Then only to Fire until he was sure of being lynched.[/quote]
I'm sorry. Is this supposed to be the Spanish Inquisition? I may not have put any suspicions about Firestarter in the form of a question lately, but what I don't like about him after I stopped asking questions is clear—does he really want to play or not? If he doesn't want to play, then I'm fine with him lynched; in fact, I told him to self-hammer if that's the case. If he DOES want to play, though, then he needs to wake up and do some decent scumhunting, not just sling mud every which way he pleases.

When I replaced. You fosed me.
When I said I was wary of you. Then you started asking ME questions and trying to make me look scummy.

If that's the way we're going, then why aren't you chewing millar13's head off for calling you out for blowing cases out of proportion?

@SC: I still don't follow your logic of bussing... You said it more than once throughout the game... Why not just say that one being scum doesn't rule the other out?

I thought I did so by denying that Firestarter flipping town would clear millar13 in my mind.

Firestarter seems not to care about being lynched, which to me is tantamount to resignation from the game, yet he's still pushing millar13 and me. I'm confused as to whether he really wants to continue playing.

Dismissing him as not wanting to play? I'm having very bad vibes about you Coug (SC)...You shouldn't have to nullify him if he attacks you. You should refute his logic.

Nice misrep. I said I was confused about whether he wanted to or not, not that he necessarily didn't want to. His not caring about getting lynched sends a signal that he doesn't want to continue; that he's still pushing anybody sends a signal that he does want to continue. Which is it? All I'm getting from him anymore is that he's trying to sow the seeds of discord.

[StrangerCoug]

@SC:

The standout here is that two people ≠ everybody.

Right, but you said "That's a

very good case

against alexhans there". You think it's a case?

Obviously.

Isn't it just a point where I was wrong?

It very well could be, but again, you shouldn't be blowing things out of proportion.

Do you think a very good case merits a lynch?

Yes.

You called millar's case on Fire a good case but this is a "Very good case"?

It's subjective, really. I think millar13's remark is pretty damning toward you. Firestarter's case pretty much built up until it got to a point of no return.

2) So would you be ok with a millar lynch right now instead of Fire?

I'm actually starting to suspect you more than millar13, but I can still get behind lynching him at this point.

3) He does want to play. He's been posting a lot. He just had everyone (NOT really everyone, A great number of people) voting against him and dismissing his answers. I think it can be pretty demoralizing. You suggest a town player to self-hammer? That is anti-town! Only scum self-hammer when they don't want to disclose any more information.... Plus there will be one less person in his lynch waggon that has to explain their motives.

I do realize the risk of telling someone potentially town to self-hammer, but he's useless at this point and I've already settled my mind about him.

4) Let me handle millar. He at least seems, although some times wrong, to have good intentions.

millar13 can handle himself.

Sow the seeds of discord? What do you mean by that?

You sow the seeds of discord by creating internal conflict within your enemy. He's basically said "go after these people when I'm dead and buried". If he's scum and the people he says to attack end up flipping town, then he will be guilty of lining up lynches, something I've accused him of once before.

Does it preocupie you he signaled you as a possible millar scumbuddy? (I don't think this, mind you)

Not a lot.

Why would I put all this effort and try to defend things that Fire said and boost discussion against a lynch if I was scum?

This is the second time you've committed WIFOM, and that along with you constantly saying one thing when the reality is another is really getting on my nerves here.

Unvote

and demote to

Major FoS: Firestarter

(he deserves a chance if he really does want to keep playing)

Vote: alexhans

oh... SC... the game you mentioned with so many replacements... how did it go?

The Mafia won prisoner's dilemma.

[StrangerCoug]

millar13 can handle himself.

*sigh* I mean I can handle MY communication with millar. I don't control him.

Very well then.

You sow the seeds of discord by creating internal conflict within your enemy. He's basically said "go after these people when I'm dead and buried". If he's scum and the people he says to attack end up flipping town, then he will be guilty of lining up lynches, something I've accused him of once before.

He can do it but we won't follow just because he said so.

We'd better not.

This is the second time you've committed WIFOM, and that along with you constantly saying one thing when the reality is another is really getting on my nerves here.

Yeah... WIFOM... I don't say it should prove my innocence... I'm telling everyone to think about it. But you seem trying to attack me for little things.

You shouldn't be using WIFOM to prove your innocence anyway, but that's because WIFOM is an effed up mind game. WIFOM, therefore, should rarely be used by the town as any form of strategy let alone a defense. (I was about ready to say never, but then doc protections came to mind.)

The Mafia won prisoner's dilemma.

Then I'm right. Rushing to lynch and too many replacements can crap a game all over.

There actually was a rush to lynch Day 1 in that game—from L-3 to swinging in the noose in less than 24 hours. If you care to look, it's here.

[StrangerCoug]

Strangercoug...

I believe that makes it L-1. Firestarter, if you really want to play, then it's high time you did some scumhunting. Otherwise, self-hammer right now. I'm pretty sure you're scum, but I haven't forgotten millar13, and alexhans is somebody that I'm looking at too.

Your vote on me kinda confirms your thoughts SC.
From the exchange with M13 & I, you've flipped onto whichever was doing worst, while keeping your "options to lynch the other" open by keeping your eyes on M13.

Am I forbidden to have more than one suspect? Is my vote set in stone? Unless the answer to both of these questions is "yes", then I fail to understand what's wrong with what I'm doing.

I dont see why your watching Alexhans at this stage, is it because he's been defending me?

One of us is apparently blind, because my case on him is not defending you and I can't find where he's doing so.

At least post the suspicion you talk of.

I did already!

Ok, millar13, you have 2 hours to post your case on me, Ill be gone for this time.

I don't think two hours is a fair time limit. Upgrade to an

HoS: Firestarter

.

WHY???? WHY DO YOU ACCUSE FIRE?
the only "case" you had on him was his not voting Millar...

FoS:StrangerCoug

Uh, hello?

Firestarter's mouth was not where his money was

. Don't you dare generalize my cases!

What do you mean my mouth wasn't where my money was SC?
I didn't make a pathetic attempt at threatening M13 or anything like that.
What did you mean?

You were making a sufficiently big case by my judgment call to be voting millar13, yet you weren't.

millar13 is guilty of making slips early in the game and tried to defend them by saying his fingers were broken, which I don't buy.

Firestarter is guilty of several misrepresentations. For example, somehow in #159 he thinks that millar13 will be cleared in my mind if he gets lynched and flips town, which isn't true. (It will obviously be wrong that they were bussing, but the rest of my case on millar13 will remain valid.)

Huh????
I asked

YOU

about this. I did not state one way or the other what my thoughts would be on what you were thinking of SC. You still have not given your answer to this BTW.
This is my 159... Its pretty clear you've misinterpretd what I said...

@ Strangercoug

Largely millar13's case. Yes, I just accused him of bussing you (and vice versa ), but as I said, the case is good. I'm looking at #126 minus the first paragraph. Most of what concerns me about millar13 is the early part of this game. You, on the other hand, have been responding very poorly to pressure lately.

When I flip town, does your "Idea" of millar & me bussing each other excuse him from a lynching?

[/quote]
I will explain my thought processes about this one last time in plain, unadorned English:

• I thought millar13 was acting scummy.
  
• I thought you were acting scummy.
  
• millar13 posts what I believe to be a decent case against you.
  
• You post what I believe to be a decent case against millar13.
  
• I do not know there to be more than one scum group, and neither does anybody else aligned with the town.
  
• Therefore, I think you are bussing each other.

What would you like me to elaborate on?

I'm sorry. Is this supposed to be the Spanish Inquisition?

I may not have put any suspicions about Firestarter in the form of a question lately, but what I don't like about him after I stopped asking questions is clear—does he really want to play or not? If he doesn't want to play, then I'm fine with him lynched; in fact, I told him to self-hammer if that's the case. If he DOES want to play, though, then he needs to wake up and do some decent scumhunting, not just sling mud every which way he pleases.

RE: the bolded part... LOL, just LOL. Try being me about 10 pages ago...
Its hardly the Spanish inquisition now, is it?
You think Im scum because Im resigned to being lynched?
You stopped asking questions because it looked very clearly that I would be lynched before the replacements came into the game. And Yes, I want to remain in the game. I may have been resigned to being lynched, but at no point did I ever want to leave the game. You can now drop that line of thinking.[/quote]
Thank you for saying this.

@SC: I still don't follow your logic of bussing... You said it more than once throughout the game... Why not just say that one being scum doesn't rule the other out?

I thought I did so by denying that Firestarter flipping town would clear millar13 in my mind.

I may have missed this, but where did you deny this exactly?

Post #163.

You called millar's case on Fire a good case but this is a "Very good case"?

It's subjective, really. I think millar13's remark is pretty damning toward you.

Isn't the following quote by M13 more or less the same?

However, if Firestarter is lynched

people

are saying that I flip scum.

To my knowledge only you, SC said this. Which makes M13 as wrong as alexhans.
Its not a case, its a poor attempt at reflecting questions.

I don't recall anyone else saying they'd suspect millar13 after you flip scum either.

Why would I put all this effort and try to defend things that Fire said and boost discussion against a lynch if I was scum?

This is the second time you've committed WIFOM, and that along with you

constantly saying one thing when the reality is another

is really getting on my nerves here.

What reality??? . Please explain the bolded.

You shouldn't be using WIFOM to prove your innocence anyway, but that's because WIFOM is an effed up mind game.

WIFOM, therefore, should rarely be used by the town as any form of strategy let alone a defense.

(I was about ready to say never, but then doc protections came to mind.

WIFOM, Im almost sure about (I would need to clarify this), has possibly been mentioned the most by you, SC.

OK, so what is the problem with it?

2) So would you be ok with a millar lynch right now instead of Fire?

I'm actually starting to suspect you more than millar13, but I can still get behind lynching him at this point.

You've stated numerous times that M13 was "as" scummy as me...

I wasn't talking to you.

You then go on to ask why I linked you to Isaac, which in truth, I did not do.

There are also interactions Im not happy with between M13 and Issac and SC.

You are contradicting yourself. I understand where you're getting the connection between millar13 and me, and I can also see how you're connecting millar13 with Isacc. The second quote, however, implies that the connection is a triangle, not a V.

You follow this up by asking me about the "connection" between you & isaac, again showing too much defensiveness for my liking.

See above. You

STILL

haven't given me an answer to this.

[StrangerCoug]

EBWOP:

millar13 is guilty of making slips early in the game and tried to defend them by saying his fingers were broken, which I don't buy.

Firestarter is guilty of several misrepresentations. For example, somehow in #159 he thinks that millar13 will be cleared in my mind if he gets lynched and flips town, which isn't true. (It will obviously be wrong that they were bussing, but the rest of my case on millar13 will remain valid.)

Huh????
I asked

YOU

about this. I did not state one way or the other what my thoughts would be on what you were thinking of SC. You still have not given your answer to this BTW.
This is my 159... Its pretty clear you've misinterpretd what I said...

@ Strangercoug

Largely millar13's case. Yes, I just accused him of bussing you (and vice versa ), but as I said, the case is good. I'm looking at #126 minus the first paragraph. Most of what concerns me about millar13 is the early part of this game. You, on the other hand, have been responding very poorly to pressure lately.

When I flip town, does your "Idea" of millar & me bussing each other excuse him from a lynching?

I will explain my thought processes about this one last time in plain, unadorned English:

• I thought millar13 was acting scummy.
  
• I thought you were acting scummy.
  
• millar13 posts what I believe to be a decent case against you.
  
• You post what I believe to be a decent case against millar13.
  
• I do not know there to be more than one scum group, and neither does anybody else aligned with the town.
  
• Therefore, I think you are bussing each other.

What would you like me to elaborate on?

[StrangerCoug]

When I flip town, does your "Idea" of millar & me bussing each other excuse him from a lynching?

What would you like me to elaborate on?

Now you clearly are not just a plain vanilla townie...that is more than clear from post 121. Clearly you are sitting on some sort of power position (I doubt you pro-town, so the assumption almost concretes scum) otherwise you wouldn't be so frustrated and resorting to using offensive language. Why would someone with no real power feel the need to swear and your such horrible and disgusting I do not know.

This is an awfully weak attack, and I'm hearing WIFOM bells go off. The case itself is good, though.

You state this about M13's case on me.

You then state in 235 that my case was good against M13's. But again, you keep the eye on both of us with your "bussing theory."
But you do not slate any of my case like you did M13's.
Why vote for me then, when the logical thing, that I can see, is vote for M13?

I had nothing new to contribute to what millar13 said.

I dont think there's anything in either of them of note, but if you are going to pick up on one, you must pick up on the other.

OK, so I'm guilty of one of the things I accused alexhans of with the word "very".

Why would I put all this effort and try to defend things that Fire said and boost discussion against a lynch if I was scum?

This is the second time you've committed WIFOM, and that along with you

constantly saying one thing when the reality is another

is really getting on my nerves here.

What reality??? . Please explain the bolded.

You haven't answered this.

I'll start by saying everybody ≠ two people out of twelve, as has been said before. He also said (#347) that I thought you didn't want to play when I was really confused which way you were going about the matter (you have since cleared that up). I'm basically accusing him of misrepresentation.

I think you've adequately explained yourself, so

un-FoS: Firestarter

, meaning I'm dropping the bussing theory.

[StrangerCoug]

FoS: Sajin

. Don't dodge questions like that.

[StrangerCoug]

Don't OMGUS me and then I may respond to you. Still typing response to batt.

Uhh... OMGUS? I'm sorry, but Battousai and alexhans had a legitimate concern. I don't like your dismissing a question by asking someone else another question.

[StrangerCoug]

The quote your saying no one suspected millar depending on firestarters flip. As I recall it was you who theorized them as scumbuddys.

Where did I say that absolutely nobody suspected millar13?

Also when you pointed out the supposed contradiction: There was no contradiction.

"I think something's up with the interactions among player X, player Y, and player Z" means "I think something's up not only with the interactions of player X with players Y and Z, but also of player Y with players X and Z and player Z with players X and Y". Firestarter said "I think something's up with the interactions among player X, player Y, and player Z" and proceeded to support only "I think something's up with the interactions of player X with players Y and Z" with his later statements.

[StrangerCoug]

Um, that has nothing to do with the statement.

He never stated that X Y and Z were conglomerated.

That is the way I read his statement, hence why I called him out on it. He has since explained it as a communication error and clarified his statement.

[StrangerCoug]

And his squirmyness as I turned my eye has made me more suspicious.

Calling you out on a legitimate suspicion is not being squirmy, so stop using me as a scapegoat to get pressure off you.

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: What's the vote count?

[StrangerCoug]

How?

he had 2 votes I had a fos. The person under pressure he refered to was likely himself, freudian slip.

This is crap. I know Firestarter's case on me to be serious, but your case on me is a joke and can be summed up as you telling me "Yeah, whatever, scaredy cat." If you're going to vote me, at least present me with something worth defending like Firestarter did. Don't be skimping on scumhunting to see what you can get away with.

Unvote: alexhans
Vote: Sajin

[StrangerCoug]

I think I caught a slip,

And I refuted it. Anyone who can read knows who is being referred to as under pressure in that post:

Calling you out on a legitimate suspicion is not being squirmy, so stop using me as a scapegoat to

get pressure off you.

Kairyuu says he also caught a slip, but it's backed by something he did as scum in another game. Yeah, there's not a lot going with his vote, but what's there is sound and I'll start defending what he spat out at me:

Strangercoug is scum.

If you die and flip town, there will still be stuff that I can get on millar13 for.

That is the exact type of scumslip that no one caught me on way back when in Facedown and Thirsty.

The only thing keeping me from thinking millar13 and Firestarter were independently scummy was their attacking each other. I have explained why I thought millar13 and Firestarter were scum other than that. You quoted my refuting that Firestarter being town clears millar13—I don't accuse people of bussing unless I have something solid for both players in question to back it up.

Plus there's the whole issue with being so eager to please, especially regarding Isacc.

Could you cite some examples and explain them?

Now back to Sajin:

I don't think you have provided a viable defense for him.

I can defend myself, thank you very much. You don't need to have others help me, and it's counterintuitive to do so if you suspect me.

[StrangerCoug]

Sorry for the double post, but I missed this.

If you are town you need to be lynched now.

Major HoS: Korlash

. Enough said.

[StrangerCoug]

And you aren't doing it because...?

?Doing what?

Um, lets see.. its bolded in my last post, and has something to do with being outspoken...

You've gone back to posting fluff. This is not something you want to do if you want to stay alive.

[StrangerCoug]

You've gone back to posting fluff. This is not something you want to do if you want to stay alive.

Oh really?
And when was the last time I posted fluff?

The time you posted the last sentence of #435, which I have down as being at 12:40 PM MDT exactly.

And why are you doing nothing else but posting fluff?

I'll answer this question when you tell me not only how many of my last ten posts in this thread besides this one are fluff, but also which ones.

FoS: Firestarter

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: V/LA this weekend.

[StrangerCoug]

Firestarter admits that if he is left alive today, he will be lynched later. That, with claiming vanilla townie, means that he forsees his mislynch in the future. Now when Korlash wants him lynched because if Fire is town, him being around would result in being mislynched at an inappropriate time (end game), Fire uses it in his case against him.

*brain explodes*

[StrangerCoug]

I'm failing to understand what Battousai is talking about.

[StrangerCoug]

I'm failing to understand what Battousai is talking about.

Fire said he shouldn't be allowed to live because of the WIFOM it will create in the future. This is very similar to what I have been arguing, yet he is calling me scum for saying it. Doesn't that also make him scum for saying it?

I believe so. Makes sense now.

This is interesting in relation to the rest of this post... and to why I see Battousai as scum.

I don't vote in the random stage, but HIYA

Vote: Millar13

for taking an anti-town policy in order to help his scum play.

Battousai's post is voting M13 for taking an anti-town policy.
He then states...

Unvote

my random vote.
25– millar FOS's me for “applying tactics in RVS.” I don't see the merit in this FOS. I wasn't applying tactics,

I was just random voting him because he's helping his scum play by never voting in the RVS

Note the contradiction... he

"random voted him for not voting"???

By that same token, I should be yelled at for random voting afatchic for random voting me because it's something I do a lot, yet I don't think I've really been this game. The RVS argument I've been is regarding who ended it.

And if you think Battousai's random vote is scummy, then why didn't you vote him the first time it was brought up?

And while I'm questioning you, where is your response to the last sentence of #442?

[StrangerCoug]

2. I did not consider it "as" scummy by itself.

You asked why all I was doing was posting fluff. By asking you in return how many and which of my posts of a recent subset were fluff, I was challenging your accusation. I don't intend to answer the original question until you give me evidence from those posts that I was doing so. As you still have not done so, it's giving me reason to believe that you know the accusation you made to be false.

Regarding my accusing you of fluff:

Um, lets see.. its bolded in my last post, and has something to do with being outspoken...

This is suggestive of not really answering the question, therefore being fluff.

I explained my "brain explodes" post as indicating that I did not understand Battousai. Your turn to explain the above.

And if you think Battousai's random vote is scummy, then why didn't you vote him the first time it was brought up?

This is a lame question. Always. "Why didn't you say so before"? typical of wanting to dismiss a case instead of addressing it.

Look, Battou voted M13 for not voting in RVS (being anti town) and then M13 voted Battout for applying tactics. Korlash agreed that they were tactics. No one else disputed that it was a serious vote. After, when called upon it. Battou says it was not serious but a random vote. That way he is not pressured.

I asked that kind of question because I thought the subject in question was dead and buried. Firestarter says he was concerned about the scummier millar13 than Battousai. Now, skimming past something important since the last couple of times you checked the thread can be debated, but I would argue that the sooner you realize you missed it, the less scummy. This is the first time Battousai's random vote has been discussed since... when again?

[StrangerCoug]

I am fairly sure hes town.I think hes town at about 80-20 odds. I am willing to go through with a lynch due to the reasons Korlash and Bat have posted.

Let me get this straight—you're willing to be behind the lynch of a player whom you think has an 80% chance of being town? May I ask what exactly you are smoking?

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: Wish me luck on an employment test I have to take in about four hours.

[StrangerCoug]

I still want Sajin lynched with the "80% town, but still willing to lynch" comment along with twisting my words and false OMGUS accusations, but I think Firestarter is scummy enough to warrant me hammering him.

[StrangerCoug]

OMGUS- Sudden voting or pressuring of someone as a response to that someone voting/pressuring you. Usually done in greater amounts then original pressure in an attempt to get pressure off.

Apparently, our definitions conflict. I go by the classic definition of player X voting player Y solely because player Y is voting player X. Even if your definition is correct, it's not a scum tell on my part if you're voting or pressuring me on crap, which is what you are doing.

Nope, they are in the thread, feel free to browse. Besides if I personally list them then SC would just claim some were not attacks, and this one was weak etc etc.

Your holding back your opinions from the town to avoid pressure is heavily noted. You had given absolutely no original input to my case when you voted me, and I was not the first person to step up and comment about it.

Nope, I stand behind my statement. It is not scummy to on day 1 want to lynch someone could be town. In a 3/12 setup 80/20 is barely more town than neutral. And that is how I see Fire atm slightly town favored with a very soft floor. Its the soft floor that makes me ok with lynching him.

Go read post #45 made by yours truly in Open 96: Carbon-14, come back, read what I just quoted, and see if you are reminded of anything.

[StrangerCoug]

1- I read this as, "give me more words to twist"

How so? This is not the first time I've told you "this is crap". I feel that I have adequately defended my attacking you after you attacking me. If I attacked somebody and that somebody thought he or she had a legitimate reason to attack back, then he or she by all means can—his or her opinion is not void, as you are slandering mine to be. If defendants were forbidden the right to attack back if the person questioning him or her was scummy, this game would easily be won by the Mafia, and that assumes the game gets anywhere.

2- I answered every question asked of me and will continue to do so. Your denial of this is noted.

Actually, this is what set me off:

Besides if I personally list them then SC would just claim some were not attacks, and this one was weak etc etc.

How is this criticizing your not answering questions, and how is this criticizing your not answering questions as opposed to implying you're keeping things to yourself under fear of scrutiny?

3- I could care less what you posted in other games. This is not relevant at all in this game, especially when brought up by the same poster. Thanks for the attempted alignment frame on yourself.

I brought that up because that's a post I made as scum which I see as similar to yours. That game is completed, and I have used stuff I've done previously as scum as tells against others doing the same or similar in later games. Kairyuu did that against me in this very thread, and I see no difference in the long run with what I'm talking about here.

Seriously, read it before you dismiss it as unimportant. It's backing some of my reasoning as to why you are scum.

[StrangerCoug]

Not reading it. Still. I love that you feel the need to create outside material to somehow demonstrate your point.

There's stuff in here I'm drawing my case from here too, so don't you DARE think I'm using some sneaky, underhanded trick from God knows where to present a case.

My other two questions retain validity, so answer them.

I have no fear of scrutiny- you obviously do.

Prove that I'm afraid of scrutiny xD

[StrangerCoug]

new Question- You proved that yourself fearful when you attacked me.

My attacking you back does not necessarily mean that I'm afraid of you. I know better than to respond to a case with another case unless I have something with which to back the latter up.

Question 1 your baiting me for more material so you can twist it back on me. Just like you did with your last 4 posts or so.

Your case on me really isn't that substantial. The only thing I can find on it that others haven't brought up is OMGUS, which I've been constantly refuting. Unless I've missed something (which Firestarter has proven that I have before).

In addition, I'm laughing at your fear of my twisting stuff back on you when you've done the same to me by calling my scapegoat comment a slip. Hypocritical, Sajin?

Sajin:

He votes for SC without justification. Low content. Seemed to go along with Fire's vote and SC's vote without much justification. Strange reaction when I told him to explain his SC vote.

Quoted for truth.

Now, alexhans doesn't like your posting, but he's posted a decent case on me, which I respond to below. Where is yours?

StrangerCoug:

Well. My most suspicious character. I was preparing my post and he fosed me for the slightest thing, I wrote my suspicions and he voted for me.

I FOS'd you for the words "smart mislynch", which only makes sense if you're scum. I don't have a grace period as to when to call people scummy. If the very first post by a person other than the mod is scummy, then I might as well forget about random voting.

Now Sajin votes for him, he votes for Sajin.

For essentially the same things you've been attacking him for.

He supported the case that looked more like a lynch. Pushed hard on fire without explaining much but made sure that millar was seen as suspicious too and stated repeatedly that they looked like bussing. Odd.

It took me awhile to drop my suspicions with millar13. As I said, I switched when he and Firestarter were equally scummy to me. Yes, it's to the one closer to being lynched, but I fail to see how doing so is scummy in this scenario.

He was quick to dismiss the fire claim.

A vanilla townie claimant is one of the safest people to get rid of. You only get a scum claim once in a blue moon, and then only from idiots or people who don't care what happens to them. He also talked an awful lot about his claim "like there's nothing else to talk about," to use my very own words.

millar noted a generalization by my part and SC calls it inmediatly a "very good" case.

The "very good" case was admittedly you calling two people everybody. Granted, I wish I had more to back up saying stuff like that than I did, but it's supporting my "you say one thing when the reality is another" accusation. You blew things out of proportion, which is not townie.

Sc, however, quickly attacked Sajin. That seems to be his MO. Attacking his attacker. Like his fos on me and then vote.

I am known to be aggressive, yes.

I also dislike the way in wich SC tries to pin Sajin down with the 80/20 statement. That's a lawyer-like trap. Not good. Sajin isn't voting Fire.

I am fully aware he isn't, but he gave me the impression that he would be willing to. He's essentially abetting what he thinks is a mislynch despite the case on him.

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: Please prod Inquisitor Vulcan Skorn.

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: Please prod Inquisitor Vulcan Skorn.

[StrangerCoug]

Stupid me asking the same thing twice... I saw it typed out in the quick reply box, so I thought I didn't send it.

[StrangerCoug]

For a moment I thought Death the Hogfather was a replacement o.0

[StrangerCoug]

Scum have two common (note:COMMON) tactics: to sit back in the early game and let town poke at each other, or try to be vocal, and a key manipulator in the events of the day.

Am I correct in interpreting this statement that Mafia rarely take the middle ground in terms of what you're talking about?

[StrangerCoug]

The day before deadline. OK...

[StrangerCoug]

I wasn't trying to paint him as scummy with that comment, but neither do I want him hammered before his return. He's the only person likely to be lynched at this point given the close deadline.

[StrangerCoug]

Will do. I'm sold by the Firestarter case (specifically with his hypocrisy), so if I can't rack up enough votes for Sajin I'll deal with him later and just vote FS.

[StrangerCoug]

Will do. I'm sold by the Firestarter case (specifically with his hypocrisy), so if I can't rack up enough votes for Sajin I'll deal with him later and just vote FS.

I fail to see the logic in this statement when you attacked me for a very similar thing. Look who is being slightly hypocritical.

Supporting the Firestarter case is not in and of itself scummy. It's your doing so when your percentages indicate you think he's more likely town than scum that I don't like about you (among other things that we have brought up). Seriously, you know better than to advocate a lynch you're only 20% sure of.

Is "racking up" votes code for bashing everyone up enough to dominate town discussion? Just curious.

Hell no. By racking up votes on somebody, I mean convincing enough people to vote for that person to make him or her a viable lynch. Since when have I been bashing everybody or suggesting that I may do so?

[StrangerCoug]

Actually, Sajin, the rules allow for deadline lynches here. Right now Firestarter is the vote leader, so if we're all stuck here Firestarter is still going to swing.

Happy scumday mod!

[StrangerCoug]

Minor FoS: Kairyuu

since that last sentence reeks a little of lining up lynches. Good case on alexhans, though.

And screw what I said in post #556. I think a number of us agree that Firestarter is probably scum, and it's better to be proactive than wait for Godot. I already said I'm sold, so I'll

unvote Sajin

and

vote Firestarter

. That's L-2 if I'm not mistaken.

Remember, Sajin: We will discuss this so-called "case" you have on me again.

[StrangerCoug]

Good case on alexhans, though.

Again... Why? What is good...? Specify. What do you think about my answers?

Here you go:

If Fire is scum, then this is a damning post for sure. Also, threats of pressure are stupid, because if you threaten scum they could just kill you and be done with it. This sounds like you are looking for an excuse to go after anyone who ends the Day before you've set up your false connections.

Me wanting to participate in the game before a lynch is scummy? Me wanting to prevent a lynch of a player I found town is scummy? This sounds like you're trying to grab any post I write and pretend it's scummy.

It is perfectly OK to participate before a lynch; in fact, participation is a prerequisite to lynching.

This is totally OMGUS. SC questions you, so you say you're suspicious of him? Pfftt.

Did he question me? NO! he just fosed me before I could even post my thoughts.

That contradicts this from later in your post:

Do you know what that FoS is for? For saying "smart mislynch". Serious dude...

"Smart mislynch" was a thought of yours.

Did you miss the part where I say "unless they're scum"? No, I don't defend myself. I say that usually replacements are helpful for town because they're more objective.

Operative word "usually", but I don't like the words "they're more objective" here. Something that better reflects what I personally think is "they often offer fresh insight." This has nothing directly with Kairyuu calling you out for the replacement card, so this shouldn't be construed as attacking this particular part of your defense.

This reads as "OMG don't lynch my scumbuddy before I get a chance to shift the wagon!"

No, this reads as "How come you want to hammer when I haven't even been able to post".

This I'm going to let play out, but if Kairyuu thinks you are being manipulative, then he has interpreted your post in a way consistent with his thoughts.

@all: Based on observations from this post, I think that alexhans implicates Firestarter as scum, and since deadline lynch is almost assuredly going to be Fire,

simply due to deadline

, I will

Is this necessary? Or are you covering your ass? So you don't think SC is scum anymore?

Firestarter is clearly who will be lynched today. I do not see how Kairyuu's voting him clears me in the same way I don't see myself as clearing Sajin by voting Firestarter.

Do really think I, as scum, would try to defend a practically condemned partner? Wouldn't that be a giveaway?

At least your third WIFOM here. I'm not surprised Kairyuu wants you to die.

[StrangerCoug]

If I were scum I would rather buss him to shove of suspicion from myself (You'll probably say it's WIFOM, I'll say it's my logic).

You're digging your own grave at this point regardless.

[StrangerCoug]

What safe spot? I've already defended against Firestarter, Sajin refuses to post anything decent against me, and you've screwed your case's credibility over.

[StrangerCoug]

You seem addicted to WIFOM, you blow things out of proportion (OK, I must admit that I did that too to an extent, but I still found things to back up what I said), you present my FoS on you in an anachronistic matter, and there are probably other things that I can't think of at 9:45 at night and/or other people think of you.

[StrangerCoug]

EBWOP: matter = manner. I need some sleep.

[StrangerCoug]

SC: You have to remember that my case is not based on the FoS... the fos is an extra fact that signals your scummyness. Read the post where I voted you for a comprised read on your case.

I never intended to say it was. However, you said I made the FoS without giving you a chance to post

ANY

of your thoughts when it's clear from the reasoning behind it, whether you agree with it or not, that you had at that point. That's why the anachronistic bit is there.

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: Possible V/LA next week. I'll tell you if I'll have access then.

[StrangerCoug]

By my watch, Firestarter died two hours ago, and we've got a solid base behind it. I'm sure he'll flip scum.

[StrangerCoug]

I buy the alexhans case, but I still want to go after Sajin tomorrow. I don't want either of them alive in the endgame at this point.

[StrangerCoug]

I've gone through this already. Misrep, WIFOM...

[StrangerCoug]

Good case, particularly the part where you say "..." You couldn't even think of something else? You are reminding me of Kairyuu's case on me... XD

Not really, but I'm still giving you a general idea. I've already gone into detail.

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: The V/LA problems I told you about possibly having next week shouldn't happen.

OK, Sajin, as I promised, here's what I have to say about you:

Once again, I was not the first person to respond after you attacked me. It is clear that I jumped in

after

people got concerned. A lot of the OMGUS case, therefore, is baseless.

Now, as for your not willing to go into detail with your other parts of my case, you're hurting the town by refraining from doing so. I know what I am, but if I respond to what you have to say about me with crap, then I am hurting myself and giving everybody a good reason to lynch me, which is what you want to do if you think I am scummy. But if you keep silent about me because you're afraid of me providing a countercase against you or you think you don't have anything good on me in the first place, your opinion about me might as well be irrelevant to this game. Guess who's hurt in that case? You.

[StrangerCoug]

So I am not the only victim of Sajin's craplogic, Kairyuu.

Vote: Sajin

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: Ignore #627 and note V/LA from the 10th to the 15th.

[StrangerCoug]

madeofphail, can you afford to give any more reason as to why you want Lindisfarne to claim than just "I have reason to believe that you are scum"?

[StrangerCoug]

I'm not fond of madeofphail now having outed a power role. Kairyuu went nowhere last night according to Lindisfarne, and for all intents and purposes madeofphail should not have done this. I can see madeofphail misplaying insane or paranoid cop, but this early in the day I'm more inclined to believe the force to claim is by scum rather than cop.

Vote: madeofphail

[StrangerCoug]

Unvote: madeofphail

and

vote: Lindisfarne

. I'm not about to advocate the lynch of a vigilante.

[StrangerCoug]

Nothing new to report on him, alexhans, so hammer when ready.

[StrangerCoug]

Alexhans SC and Kairyuu have all said they would talk more. I would like madeofphail to talk more.

I remember saying I'd talk some more about you, and I have already done so.

[StrangerCoug]

Interesting... I can think of only two reasons why Gorrad would institute a mandatory twilight... Especially a strict one...

But seeing as how we have one... how about we use it for something important... Has anyone given any thought to why people have pictures on them?

I'll be damned if I know, because my role PM doesn't suggest that I have one. Maybe Gorrad is a bastard?

[StrangerCoug]

And before I forget,

vote: Strangercoug

. Methinks that the consistant attacks from alexhans, who was pretty much obvtown, especially after the Governor claim, were beginning to worry him.

I somewhat see what you're talking about, especially since I thought alexhans was scummy Day 1, but I'd still like evidence that I was worried about him.

The only worry I have about massclaiming is that we could be at 5-1 with the 1 being the SK. I really don't want an awful lot of power roles outed with that ratio of town to scum. On the other hand, 4-2 (meaning we have another scum group, which is unlikely—I see nothing werewolfy about "magic'd") is MYLO, and 4-1-1 means if we mislynch and the two remaining scum hit different townies, it's prisoner's dilemma.

Popcorn's fine.

[StrangerCoug]

My only decent lead is Sajin, mostly from Day 1, but he has explained it away as trying to get information. All of the other people I remember having suspected a lot are dead with the exception of millar13. I'd like Sajin to claim first.

[StrangerCoug]

I'm Sumiko Kobayashi, vanilla townie.

Sajin, you're up.

[StrangerCoug]

Oops. millar13 is up next then.

[StrangerCoug]

millar13, fullclaim or die.

[StrangerCoug]

Flavor claim: Some of my students have called me a witch, but I've actually been nicer over the years. I have nothing special other than the change of heart.

[StrangerCoug]

Sorry about that. Been busy with other things on site.

[StrangerCoug]

Lying scum.

unvote

vote: millar13

When Sajin asked you why phail died you said you didn't protect phail because you were too busy protecting Sajin.

Caught in a lie my friend. I love it when scum make it this easy.

Ditto.

Vote: millar13

[StrangerCoug]

Mini Theme (###): Carnival Mafia
Playername: Empking
Mistake: Claiming to have mixed up role results to explain a contradiciton
Penalty: Lynched
Result: Flipped scum. Town wins.

confirm vote: millar13

This isn't that game and Miller isn't Empking. It takes more then one example to prove positive a point. Some people are actually idiots and do stupid things. That would be like me using a game in which a palyer used a game to call someone scum and ended up being sum themselves to call you scum. What good is someone else's meta when pushing a vote on Miller? Seriously? Can I SC's meta to lynch Bat? See now I want to try that... *looks at Bat* Hmmm... You play an awful lot differently then SC did when he was town...

Good point, but that doesn't take away from the tell, and what leads me not to believe millar13 is that it's kind of hard to mix Sajin up with you.

[StrangerCoug]

Seriously, millar13. If you're really the doc, either you'd be keeping track of who you had protected or you'd be able to go back and check any protection targets you forgot about. The "I made a mistake" and "I suck at being doc" cards don't do anything in your favor either.

[StrangerCoug]

I've once self-hammered as scum faking doc because the wagon swung over to me on Day 1 and "town shouldn't hammer claimed doc on Day 1" came to mind. So basically, I wanted to screw with the town.

698, if you want to read up.

[StrangerCoug]

Vote: No Lynch

It's MYLO with what is most likely three townies and an SK.

[StrangerCoug]

Here are some data. Below is the length of each night. Note that N1 and N3 were rather short compared to N2. From this, I gather that either the SK couldn't kill N1 or that the SK chose to kill no one.

You're failing to take into account the possibility that the SK's kill was stopped by another role, either by the doctor or the Mafia roleblocker.

[StrangerCoug]

I'm not convinced that the SK ran out of time on Night 1 since there was more of it Night 2, so you've just told us that either he attempted to kill you that night but you got protected, or he chose not to kill at all.

Or you could be the SK, but I'm not convinced of it.

[StrangerCoug]

Why wouldn't the SK be allowed to make a kill N1? If anything is forcing on the serial killer, it's that he would HAVE to shoot.

[StrangerCoug]

Also, forgot to add

FoS: SC

. Yes a no lynch may be the best bet for today, but we don't need to rush today. Especially since Sajin is on V/LA for a bit.

It's MYLO.

[StrangerCoug]

SC's character is a teacher. Since Conan is a child, he has to go to school, and SC is his teacher. The teacher takes an active role with Conan's detective group.

Does she like help them solve cases and stuff or what?

It kind of helps my being their manager. I'm a big fan of Rampo Edogawa stories, as well.

[StrangerCoug]

But what if we mislynch and I'm still alive tomorrow?

This reeks a little bit of paranoia.

FoS: Battousai

[StrangerCoug]

How is paranoia a scum trait?

If you're worried about still being alive, then it's possible that you don't want to be caught as scum.

Why do you want to fos the only clear we may have?

fos SC

Because I honestly don't see Battousai as cleared. If he is the SK that we're looking for, then either he didn't shoot night one or millar13 was a paranoid doctor.

[StrangerCoug]

So you are saying I am more likely the SK who, when still alive tomorrow, is worried about how people react to it, over a townie who is concerned over WIFOM?

Over Korlash, yes, a little bit. If not lynching will cause a prisoner's dilemma situation, which I don't think, then I'm pretty sure Sajin's Mafia as it fits with his scummy behavior earlier and there not being a successful Mafia kill last night (he was V/LA, right?), but I'm worried more about looking for the SK than a third Mafia that we may or may not have.

[StrangerCoug]

I don't exactly see how that hurts, but since we don't know whether another Mafia member exists, we would need to massclaim Mafia/not Mafia first. If all four of us claim non-Mafia, then the serial killer claiming today would be suicide, so we can safely No Lynch without losing tonight. If a Mafia claims, then the SK claims and town wins prisoner's dilemma (as the Mafia and SK would have to shoot each other to win, but will both end up losing anyway with correct play on both sides).

Do you like my idea?

[StrangerCoug]

SC-You flipped your position, you wanted to nl because you thought there was one left. Now you think there are 2??? You sow confusion and doubt into everything (Paranoid doctor, thats a little farfetched) and you provide the lowest odds circumstances of occurring to explain what happened. You did not want a clear to even have the chance to exist. Explain.

First off, I did not flip my position; I was offering the possibility that I'm wrong. Battousai's plan, which I added to a bit, should work well in determining where we stand. This is basically a ditto on what Korlash is saying.

Here's all the possibilities assuming no No Kills:

• SK only, we lynch him:
  Town obviously wins.
  
• SK only, we lynch a townie:
  SK wins as long as he makes a kill.
  
• SK only, we don't lynch:
  Three-person LYLO, which makes the SK easier to find than right now.
  
• Mafia and SK, we lynch one of them:
  The other scum wins as long as he makes a kill.
  
• Mafia and SK, we lynch a townie:
  Three-person prisoner's dilemma (one chance in four of a crosskill for a town win assuming the kills are random).
  
• Mafia and SK, we don't lynch:
  Four-person prisoner's dilemma (one chance in nine of a crosskill for a town win assuming the kills are random).

Do you see where we are at?

[StrangerCoug]

If you really do think all of these things are possible (and for the record they are) then why would you propose no lynching when thats auto fail for us in your later brought up possibility

Therefore your opinion must not have been the same all day. Thats scummy to me

vote SC

What the hell, Sajin? First off, no-lynching is not auto-fail; otherwise, we would be in true LYLO at this point. The worst case scenario from what I understand is that we lose prisoner's dilemma. Also, possible ≠ probable. Prime example: Is it possible for me to die in real life today? Yes. Is it

probable

for me to die in real life today? No.

Major FoS: Sajin

. The only thing keeping me from voting you is that I still think no lynching is our best option today.

[StrangerCoug]

I think the most incriminating thing about SC is that he did not shoot the clear yesterday and he is the only 1 to not realize there could of been one yesterday.

Uhh... Unless you're a tracker, you don't know if I shot

anybody

.

What matters are the odds. I have concluded that based on kill flavor and night actions and reactions to events that SC is the likeliest to be the SK. There is a point where being through about possibilities just muddies the waters you are searching.

Would you like to forget about every single possibility you don't support and die as a result? If I am the SK, you guys lynch me, and we have a Mafia goon outstanding, that person wins. We're trying to figure out if that goon we're worried about exists. You're being seriously anti-information here.

[StrangerCoug]

and your being seriously anti-probability.

12 total with 4 scum including a role blocker and a SK with 2 kills total?

I've modded a game with 4 scum including not only a roleblocker and an SK, but a one-shot vig on the town side as well. Granted, I don't like the balance in that game, but it's proof enough it's been done.

Tell me how likely you think that is. Some percents please.

I would argue for less than 10%, but forgetting about that small amount is not an option when everybody's life is on the line.

[StrangerCoug]

I think the most incriminating thing about SC is that he did not shoot the clear yesterday and he is the only 1 to not realize there could of been one yesterday.

Uhh... Unless you're a tracker, you don't know if I shot

anybody

.

Thats not the point, Korlash and myself both realized that Batt was likely clear.

You have a problem with your argument: Likely clear ≠ 100% confirmed town, which is implied by "clear" without any qualifying actions. It only says the odds favor a player being town.

You did not at the start of today. If Korlash or myself had a killing role we would of shot the clear.

Battousai was panicking over WIFOM if he was to still be alive tomorrow, which made him suspicious in my mind. If we are to believe millar13, then yes, Battousai was protected, and thus likely town. To 100% clear him is to assume Battousai, for some reason (even if the reason is that he couldn't have), didn't shoot Night 1 and/or millar13 wasn't paranoid. I believe I am being consistent in my thinking here. I'm fully aware of my going against the odds; but covering all bases is sometimes a good thing.

Now wait your about to say "WIFOM! You could of shot someone else to frame!".

For the record, yes I am.

Yes, I could of. Yes, Korlash could of. But, it still tilts the odds of you being the last scum higher.

This doesn't make an awful lot of sense. How do you not shoot someone most likely town in order to frame a third party?

[StrangerCoug]

By your own theory you stated I am unlikely to be an SK. SC- Am I more likely or less likely in your point of view to be a SK then any other players?

I'd like you to quote where I said that, but I still think Battousai is most likely SK and the last Mafia, assuming he isn't dead, is you. If both of my guesses that the Mafia has been wiped out and that Battousai is the SK are wrong, then I'd probably support you being the SK. Korlash hasn't set off too many of my alarms if any at all.

[StrangerCoug]

EBWOP: Realized that doesn't make a lot of sense. My guess that the Mafia has been wiped out would have to be right, not wrong, for me to support you being the SK. Battousai not being the SK still stands.

[StrangerCoug]

Either he's confident or math isn't his best subject.

[StrangerCoug]

BTW, the vote I was refering to him freaking about was not today, it was day 1.

May I bring up again that I was not the first to act on your vote on me. You were trying to push a crap case on me and then pass it off as looking for information.

[StrangerCoug]

I was not pushing any crap cases. You blew up at anyone who remotely attacked you. I found it scummy.

If my case was really that much crap, why did you care so much?

You refused to give anything on my case under fear that I would twist it. If I'm going to twist your words, that should be more reason for you to lynch me, since holding that information back would and did hurt the town more than me.

[StrangerCoug]

Not sure what the 3 players over 2 players thing means though, should that not be reversed?

I think so, too.

[StrangerCoug]

Regardless, the lower number over the higher number. I figured that he meant the town would have to pick only from two people as opposed to three right now. It is not likely that it will matter to scum who, if anybody, gets lynched from here on out.

[StrangerCoug]

So Battousai, what are your opinions on everybody?

[StrangerCoug]

137

What do you want us to know about this post?

171 -defensive

The way Firestarter wrote #170 implied a connection between Issac and me, which was not supported by his earlier posts. I wanted to get ahold of his thinking regarding this connection.

235-defensive

Ditto my defense for #171. I cannot defend against the invisible.

330- Blanket list of people that are scummy

How is reminding people of my suspicions, which are supported by my earlier posts, creating a blanket list?

372- Long post mostly on defense from firestarter's posts.

And what, exactly, is your problem with this?

472- Is incredibly defensive

I believe I was mostly on the attacking end with this post, not the defending end.

515-517

What do you want us to know about these posts?

573- He tells me we will discuss this later and does not really do so

I did not see a reason to do so after #628, given it seemed as if your suspicions of me went down between those two posts.

579- More defensive posting against alexhans

Only about half of #579 is a defense—I'm actually all over the map here. Some of it is an attack, one point is something I frowned upon but didn't warrant pushing, and another point isn't really a point at all, but my not being ready to take a stance on a specific part of alexhans vs. Kairyuu.

615- More OMGUS against alexhans

Reiterating a legitimate case ≠ OMGUS.

627- More defense from SC

Defending is not in and of itself a scumtell. Otherwise, it'd be pretty easy for the Mafia to win.

587- Could be a possible scumtell, telling alexhans he is digging his own grave.

alexhans was clearly scummy.

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: V/LA on Wednesday.

[StrangerCoug]

So the Mafia is wiped out. While I'm kind of suspicious of both of you, I have a more solid case on Sajin than on Battousai. I'll look at both of you in isolation.

[StrangerCoug]

These are my iso reads. I want to hear everybody before I vote, but it's there.

Battousai

1: The post that signaled the beginning of the end if not the end itself of the RVS.
4: Analysis of the game up to that point.
5: Accuses me of taking millar13 too seriously.
Late single digits to early 10's: The Firestarter case. Sensible.
15: I'm not happy with the second paragraph of this post. Yes, it's better for town to lynch claimed vanilla, but because they're expendable and are not going to be counterclaimed, not because it increases the chance of scum hitting a power role (despite that being true).
16: Start of the millar13 case.
18: Ditto my dislike of 15.
23: Goes back to Firestarter.
27: Questions Sajin's case on Firestarter.
29: Questions Sajin's case on me.
38: The socks comment made me laugh.
40: Ditto 29.
45: Inquires about the judge comment.
Late 40's to early 50's: The alexhans case.
52: Starts attacking Kairyuu. A way to summarize the case in one sentence is blowing my mind, but I think it's for intentionally acting scummy. Correct me if I'm wrong.
66: Questions Kairyuu's nameclaim for being similar to a name that fits the SK.
87: Understandable reasoning to question millar13's doc claim.
88: Encourages millar13 to self-hammer.
92: Praises Kairyuu's death.
93: The paranoia I speak of. Gives an IGMEOY on Korlash for being the only person other than him to post in the forums on Night 3.
96: FoS's me for rushing me.
Mid-100's: Questions my paranoia case on him.

Sajin

Most of the single digits, especially late: Good scumhunting for the most part.
13: Comment on the Firestarter claim, doesn't really add anything content-wise.
17: Looks like Sajin calling out Firestarter on a slip.
19: Pretty much gets it on the nose explaining my accusing Issac of ad hom.
22: I beg to differ about point 1 about WIFOM arguments and my referencing scum tactics being scummy, but I think Mafia theory would get me on the former, and the latter I think I understand where he's coming from.
25: This is where his town read gets shot. He simply follows along with Firestarter and votes me without providing his own reasoning, claiming that doing so is against forum rules.
26: He reacts to alexhans's dislike of his vote on me by dodging his question. This is the post before I get involved with his vote, by the way.
27: False OMGUS accusation.
28: Accuses me of misrepresenting Firestarter.
32: False slip call.
33: Misrepresentation of the supposed "slip" of mine.
37: Why, exactly, did alexhans need to defend me?
38: Fuzzy math.
41: What I think is the most important part of the Sajin case starts here—his refusal to post my case because he thinks I'll twist it, which hurts town because it's anti-information.
45: *barfs*
46: Dodges my case.
48: Stretches my statement regarding voting Firestarter over him.
52: Thanks for rolefishing (despite Kairyuu ending up vanilla).
53: Essentially dismisses his case on me. Not fond of the Kairyuu vote, looking back.
56: Admits to voting me with little to no case on me. Way to go, scum.
60's to early 70's: Cleans himself up some.
75: Understandable attack of millar13's claim.
76: Says I'm town.
85: FoS's me for FoS'ing Battousai, the only potential clear.
86: Incorrectly states that I switched my stance to favor lynching rather than not.
88: Misrepresents the possibilities of how what is now last night could go and votes me for saying my opinion wasn't the same all day.
89: Says I'm suspicious for not shooting Battousai.
90: Accuses me of being anti-probability.
92: Says that, according to my theory, he is unlikely to be the SK.
Mid-90's: Math.
98: Questions my claim as being most likely to be the SK given flavor.
101: Questions why I cared about his crap case. I think the answer is obvious here.
104: Posts my case as being overly defensive.

Again, I'm going to wait for everybody's opinions (PBPA's would be nice) before voting. I still prefer to lynch Sajin, but now that I've reread Battousai, some of his D1 thinking is anti-town and he did a couple things that are hypocritical (e.g. telling millar13 to self-hammer and then finding me suspicious for doing the same to Firestarter on Day 1).

[StrangerCoug]

You told Firestarter to hammer. From what I saw, I didn't see Firestarter threatening to self-hammer right before that. The reason I told millar to self-hammer was because he threatened to. If you threaten to do something, I expect you to do it. It's like when someone is so certain someone is scum and no one believes them, they say something along the lines of lynch me now, then when I come up townie, lynch them. It is usually a bluff by scum.

OK, that's understood.

[StrangerCoug]

As for Battousai saying I'm about to pull the defense that he's lying, I think it's more pro-town to keep to my word and wait to hear everybody before acting. As for the claim, he's now more likely scum than you are. No sane person in LYLO is going to respond to a claim incriminating them by voting the third party.

[StrangerCoug]

Damn! Good game, town.

[StrangerCoug]

Yes, actually. I wasn't given a safeclaim, so I had to look her up and see what pro-town flavor I could come up with.

[StrangerCoug]

What do you mean?

[StrangerCoug]

I meant I thought I would of been nightkilled if it was you. I suppose that is a WIFOM based argument though. Also, you had avvid cause to be voting me so I guess you could of voted first if not for the watcher claim.

I actually thought you too scummy for most of the game to warrant killing you. (Ironically, I was split between killing you and Korlash last night, worrying that you might actually be Mafia. I worried about the wrong thing, apparently )

And yes, I did have avid cause to be voting you. I didn't want Battousai to yell at me for voting so quick, though.

[StrangerCoug]

Nice one Batt. Glad you guys pulled it out in the end.

@SC: I assume you killed me because I was right about you, correct?

Actually, because you were going on V/LA and thus not likely to be scum at the stage of the game we were at.

[StrangerCoug]

I thought I played quite well. That was a good gambit by Battousai, if I didn't say it already in thread.

Yeah, I had to make sure I came of as pro-town after saying I was a witch. Being unfamiliar with the theme, I had to look her up and see what flavor I could write of my own that would convince everyone of my towniness—using just what was in my role PM would've gotten me killed by somebody.