Mini 774: Case Closed Mafia (One Truth Prevails!)

[alexhans]

Hi everyone. I'm gonna read this game and give you my thoughts ASAP.

[alexhans]

I'm on page 6 and already afraid that there is gonna be a smart myslinch regarding Fire. I'm pretty positive that there is scum on that waggon. I'm not waiting till I finish my reading to tell you this because I'm afraid someone might hammer.

DONT DARE HAMMER!!!

If you do... I'll pursue you tomorrow till you're lynched...

Leave us replacements time to post and get answered.

[alexhans]

EDIT: get answers

[alexhans]

oh... my bad... It's 7 to lynch... Not 6... Anyway... The warning still stands if suddenly 2 players decide to vote him

MOD: Could you put how many votes are needed for a lynch in vote count, please?

[alexhans]

Yeah... right. You are scared of me... If you must know... I'm really suspicious of you SC so start imagining what you're going to say when I come down on you. Your whole pushing both cases without commiting and trying to follow the trend of Fire without argumenting is gonna be hard to explain. You assumed that miller would be best to have around? (with all his pro town actions? [/sarcasm])

You know replacements are scum's worst enemy right? (unless they're scum, of course)

So... Fosing me before I can question you is not gonna work. I already got you in my sight.

Stay tuned for my post. I assume it will be ready tomorrow night (I got other things to do besides this, if not I would be delighted to present it much sooner)

[alexhans]

Oh... and:

already

afraid

that there is gonna be a smart myslinch

The only way I'm making sense of this is if you know Firestarter to be town, which is impossible in a day start unless you're scum.

Notice the afraid? You're stretching. I never said he was town. I just had that fear. A quicklynch can be disastrous and after your vote on page 6 it sure seemed going that way. Fosing me for the first thing I write? Is it because you know I've seen you as scum and think I may tunnelvission you or something?

Especially when only any possibility he might actually not be scum, came in much later. It is as if you reading, but you already know something.

Same as before. Haven't read the whole game. Just looked at the last votecount to see where we were standing.

[alexhans]

Yes. It is smart for scum to accomplish a mislynch... So? (I mean, as you will se when I order my notes and post, that there is probably scum in that waggon)

Yeah. I replaced you as scum therefore I know a bit of your thoughts processes. And maybe that would lead you to think I'm gonna suspect you. Anyway, I don't think I'm gonna pull meta on you. I should study more cases were you're town first.

Well. Enough with the partially informed posts. I'll come back when I have all the info about the day. This talking without knowing is not me. I just found strange that of all players you would be the one that fosed me.

[alexhans]

I think we have waited long enough for the inactives to post/be replaced. The game is starting to die down which is worse.

Vote: Firestarter

Wow... Usually what scum says when they don't know how to push a quicklynch when not every player is playing. I haven't posted my notes in 24 hs and you are already calling for a hammer? Aren't you a little bit interested in what I might have to say?

Wait a bit more and I'll order my notes and post them... I just didn't want to flood the thread with a response to every quote I found strange because it will probably not be read. I'm trying to make a Tl;Dr... Also, I had some meta that showed that millar has random voted in the last finished games he's played and voted a self voter because he couldn't stand self voting while now he ignored Koresh and said he didn't random vote.

Patience. Content IS coming. There's no need to rush the vote if you're town. Scum are the only ones interested in keeping content talk to a minimum... Be pro-town.

[alexhans]

Ok... Fuck the Tl;Dr... I'll post the some notes I made. It's not in order. It is a mess. But you are in a hurry so... Later I will try to right a summary of my views and my questions.

* Millar is a player that may post 2000 times in 1 day. (Similar to Zwets but with better intentions, he usually tries to scumhunt).

* In this game he has laid a trap with the non voting.

I don't vote in the random stage, but HIYA

He doesn't vote in random stage? Why?
open 124 and some other games that I will look up later (i lost the txt I'd written about it) are not consistent with his non-voting now.

*Why does everybody say Fire insulted or was rude when millar wrote earlier:

In this game you have to be a little over the top...you need to blow the small clues out of proportion otherwise really you need to leave mafiascum and go back to playing cluedo with your kid sister.

Ok. Millar. It was all well until you made this comment. Just because you think you know doesn't necesarilly mean you're right. Say what you want but with respect to others please. I think personal attacks don't contribute at all to the game.



Ok... 18 posts and I see Kolash self voting??? :shocked: Are we gonna have anti town players here?
millar not voting in RVs.

Vote: Pacman281292

Entirely random. I just want to participate!

Seems to be really careful about letting everyone know it's random.

I've only known scum players to try and make a game serious A.S.A.P
so doing so was a scum tell

Towny doesn't feel akward around the random stage

I disagree completely.

I'm more on the lines of SC than Koresh in my thinking. I think what millar did was to set up a silly trap and call out the first player that voted for him.

Strangecoug is probably a townie who believes he is a "scum-hunter" but is going in all gones blazing.

Wow... Millar the experienced is condescending with newb SC...
FoSing in RVS is scary...

If you read Post 42 Sajin you would have noticed, that I no longer FOS Battousai and instead I am looking at Firestarter in stead

Is there such thing as UnFosing?

And I don't feel that way at all. Although, I do feel you FOS is a predicatable defensive mechanism

Millar REALLY needs to be careful with the wording.

In terms of Strangecoug he is coming off as a generic town player, I have played with a number of times.

In this game you have to be a little over the top...you need to blow the small clues out of proportion otherwise really you need to leave mafiascum and go back to playing cluedo with your kid sister.

Ok. Millar. It was all well until you made this comment. Just because you think you know doesn't necesarilly mean you're right. Say what you want but with respect to others please. I think personal attacks don't contribute at all to the game.


mmm... I don't like SC's way of making fire suspicious too without much foundations. He just makes him look suspicious with 1-liners.

Let's get this going. Gonna try out a new playstyle here, so be prepared lol =P

Why should he feel that it was necessary to explain he would be changing his playstyle?
111: Battou says Firestarter did OMGUS? HOW?

Firestarter claims null-tells can't give reads. Have you meta'd Millar yet? If so, you should know that he is an Empking, or a Zwet, meaning that most of the stuff you are accusing him of are null-tells.

Or, to some extent, a StrangerCoug. I'm getting better, though.

So this is all you had to say about Isaac's hasty post?

We just found millar13's scumbuddy...

And you're not saying who it is straight up because?

Isaac had posted right before that. While I don't agree with Fire's quick association I don't see why would you have missed this.

Also I would like to know where both Korlash and Strangecoug stand at the moment, considering these are the only other active two that really have contributed anything of reall value thus far to this game

I've already said what I think about you, and Firestarter's going downhill.

Ok, millar13, you have 2 hours to post your case on me, Ill be gone for this time.

I don't think two hours is a fair time limit. Upgrade to an

HoS: Firestarter

.

[/quote]
WHY???? WHY DO YOU ACCUSE FIRE?
the only "case" you had on him was his not voting Millar...

FoS:StrangerCoug

dude, after all that had happened since your last post this is not enough. Especially since Fire has already a huge waggon on him.

The fact is millar, you called me likely scum in your 5th post, after my first 4 posts, which were in the RVS, like it or not.
Your case goes back way further than Isaac's or Battousai's posts.

From now on I am IGNORING you. And yes you did twist me words especially concerning the "concrete" bit. Stop with your spin and accept your fate

This just makes it definite? Why would town IGNORE someone? Because they're confortable with the position they're now and would like everyone else to vote with so little?

it is because he only reads the posts he wants too...and even then, he chooses to read them in a way that suits "his game"

Sensless accusations...

From what I see at this point, Firestarter and millar13 might as well be bussing each other

Bussing each other day 1???? Why do you see the need to do that? This is you again trying to make both suspicious as if you liked to see one lynched today and the other tomorrow.
Post 151 and you already say that fire is going downhill and push his lynch?
153:

I think we get more information out of a firestarter lynch at this point.

why did you thought that?

Remember that I was voting millar13 before I switched to you. If I believe that my top two suspects are equally scummy, I will vote the person closer to getting lynched so my vote does not act as dead weight

So here you're excusing that you will vote the most likely to get lynched...

*Isaac made a post in wich the first thing he did was say fire was scum and then proceded to misinterpret the broken finger issue. Fire said that with broken fingers you might miss a letter but not write an entirely different word. I agree.

isaac 107 do you really think this a case? a good post? one definite scum read and 2 town reads when they're just starting the game?

I knew your vote would stay on me, from the first time you un-voted me. The needless uvotes in-between just shows me that you may just be a townie who doesn't actually have full confidence in his scum-hunting abilities. In fact the more I think about it, it isn't that your coming off scummy but more that you just aren't a very good townie.

You sure changed your mind quickly...

I would post a more content-rich post, however Millar seems to be doing well enough on his own, and we all know that Firestarter won't pay any attention to me anyways (as he still never even countered or acknowledged my original arguments against him).

I won't post because someone is doing good? lame. And he did answer your post.



*SC states that millar case is good... but doesn't say why. SC thinks they might be bussing... (on day 1:?)

Most of what concerns me about millar13 is the early part of this game. You, on the other hand, have been responding very poorly to pressure lately

This attacking without examples... Why you think he responded bad under pressure? I think his defense post was pretty decent.

Now you clearly are not just a plain vanilla townie...that is more than clear from post 121. Clearly you are sitting on some sort of power position (I doubt you pro-town, so the assumption almost concretes scum) otherwise you wouldn't be so frustrated and resorting to using offensive language. Why would someone with no real power feel the need to swear and your such horrible and disgusting I do not know.

Remember the quote where YOU we're aggresive. How's it different?

is that a large amount of my case is built upon the fact that people actually see you in the same way as I do

Did you even stop to think that maybe scum is following your waggon? Argumentun Ad Populus is not enough.

It isn't compulsory and therefore, be not taking part really should not be seen as some sort of issue

But it is odd. As the examples I gave you don't show you doing the same...

You then for some unknown reason suggest that both of them are scum, and then unvote and

Vote afatchic (by the time you have voted a second time, you have ended your personal random stage

Dude... Didn't you read his obvscum as a joke? I did. It was like his 3rd post... Since when you dictate what is and isn't random?

Once again you you jumped on a altercation and made it your business to vote against for the third time

with no real case.

He had a case IMO. You had just contradicted yourself with the scum wants to end RVS.

Only two posts later you have then unvoted me, and put me on MAJOR FOS. Making you undecisive but also seeming as the fact that pacman didn't actually seem to back you reason, as the reason why you felt you need to back off yourself.

Now, here you make a good point. His unvoting so fast feels weird. Especially when you were not in danger of being lynched.

Isaac made some good points, not all great or perfect, but some good points none the less

Wich ones?

When I flip town, does your "Idea" of millar & me bussing each other excuse him from a lynching?

Same idea I had.

You say Ive been responding poorly to pressure, and that Ive been going downhill...
At least have the balls to point to some examples, I cannot defend against the invisible.

It's the same thing I wrote earlier.

Basically I'm seeing a bad play by millar that quickly found himself in a fight to death (from his side) with fire and a lot of opportunistic people jumped on the waggon without much explanation and tried to beat Fire with just the amount of people and not logic.

I'm still at page 8 because I went back several times to re-read a few things to be clear about them. While they are a few scummy things about fire...
Especially his calling Isaac scumbuddy (wrong move) I have a bad feeling about his waggon and have a decent town read on him

[alexhans]

Good morning.

...Anyone else have a problem with this stuff? He has some crazy meta and tunnelvision on coug, and gives one of the biggest anti-town threats I've seen in awhile.

Wrong. I'm suspicious of a lot of things. Don't worry about me being anti town, is just that I came to the game asked people not to hammer while I was reading and started doubting SC's motives to make both Fire and millar but push the more popular lynch... Before I could even post my thoughts he had already fosed me... ??? What's that? He could ask me a question, but maybe he needed that fos to make me suspicious...
I don't think they case on fire is as clear as a lot of people pretend. I don't like Isaac's vote at all, nor I like battou's attitude of wanting to move on... Usually when there are replacements people don't say let's get this going, They've had enough time, hammer, hammer.

If Fire is town I want his lynch to have been thoroughly discussed before it's done. Otherwise tomorrow everyone will wash their hands and point at millar.

Uh, hello? Firestarter's mouth was not where his money was

Nor was millars... he was fosing everybody.

OK, first off, your implication that scum would not bus on Day 1 is WIFOM. I've done it as scum myself, although doing so in that particular game was very dangerous and a contributing factor to my loss.

Also, accusing two people of trying to bus each other ≠ lining up lynches.

OK. But what did you the impression of bussing?

@Lindis: I'm not gonna rule out one if the other flips scum. It's just that I don't like the isolated suggestion that they might be bussing and nothing else. That looks like adding more baseless suspicion to the game.
I'm defending fire fierce because I've followed the game and thought: What the hell? How is fire taking more heat (lol) than millar if millar was much more full of inconsistencies? Why everything else is pretty much ignored? I ask people not to hammer because I'm catching up and I get fosed and then a vote to L-1 comes up. I wanna play before DAy 1 ends or I'll get nothing for tomorrow. In no way I'm pinning SC as scum or anything, I just don't like a lot of the things he did and definetly want explanations.

I thought I was going to enter a game with some kind of choice but you're all pretty much set on fire. I want to find out for myself, and from what I've seen until now. I'm not convinced, at all.

@Sajin:Then why not millar for example? He has a lot of posts too.

Referencing all those scum tactics is scummy in my opinion. Purely because doing so casts doubt rather than digs up any information.

This is what I've been trying to say.

[alexhans]

Now seeking replacements for:
Rage
Ghost Writer
Afatchic

wha-a-a-a-t? 3 people must be replaced? (and there is already 2 replacements...)
That sucks.

By the way... Post coming in soon.

[alexhans]

alexhans:
Nor was millars... he was fosing everybody.

FOS everybody?

Where exactly. Either quote them ALL or please leave

Ok. you did not fos everybody, it was my impression for defending your non voting and saying you'd rather fos them. Just Battou and fire in succession.

Is that all you had to comment on? Nothing else called your attention?

[alexhans]

WARNING: LONG POST

If you die and flip town, there will still be stuff that I can get on millar13 for.

Apparently, Sajin defines bussing a little more strictly than I do. I think your case on

Firestarter is great, and I believe most of it, but you're doing things yourself that's setting

off alarms. That's all I think I need for a bussing accusation—you can be the first person to

vote somebody and still be bussing that person. [/quote]
I don't understand how do you reach the conclusion that if millar is scummy he could be bussing.

Maybe he is scum and he is buddying, maybe he is town and he is right about fire, maybe not.


@korlash: I don't like your attitude regarding the tactics issue. You defended millar for

saying battou applied tactics but pretty much said that anything applied as a tactic. So there

is no reason for millar to vote battou.

Also. I don't like the interpretations of

170 expresses a lot of the motives why I'm not liking the Fire waggon. He makes sense IMO.

He states he's still 50/50 on me, wouldn't town be 50/50 on anyone in game,

especially after just coming out of the random stage? He then looks at lurkers, saying that scum

may be contained within them, why not place a vote on one them to get them to post?

This is stretch. Things have happened and he logically suspects some more than others. The not

voting lurkers is just gameplay. And he said that he was careful with his votes. Maybe a Fos

would be more consistent but it's really his choice.

@SC: I would appreciate more your bussing theory if you had pointed out that it has to do with

millar's "scum partner" mistake. That might be an innocent mistake, but might not. This is not

to be dismissed as lightly as you did.

look at 170. I think

it raises pretty good questions. For example the fact that millar had said fire was bad townie

like and rapidly reverted to scum. Then, another thing I don't like about SC is that he

practically stopped pursuing millar with questions since millar said that he was townie.
[quote="fire]So if you wrote, "Im scum", and you came back half an hour later and told us it was

a mistake, it should have read "Im town".. that were to allow you this based on the fact you've

2 broken fingers???[/quote]lol. This is going in my wiki quotes.
The way in wich millar set on fire is strange and the way in wich he tried to prove his case by

saying others agreed with him strikes me as he thinking that he didn't have a good enough case.

Besides from the vote-hopping and saying that Isaac was a scumm buddy.

I don't know how to respond with out screaming, but this doesn't actually

completely some up as an actual case. You have actually based a large amount of your anaysis on

your own opinion and also what you seem to believe IS FACT. It is almost as if you believe you

know what everyone is thinking and you know exactly what they are planning to do.

This applies to you too millar.

When you make a case, you actually have to have some sort of actual case with

some hard case and evidents and not just PERSONAL OPINION.

Ok MasterMafia... Did your case had hard case and evidents? Wasn't it also YOUR

personal opinion?
172 doesn't answer or refute 170 AT ALL! It just dismisses it as bad posting and inveting... I

DONT LIKE THIS.

I admit I have come to point, where I don't see how Firestarter can stay and the

game can progress at the same time.

Wow. Calling for a lynch without answering his post

?
175: Come on people!

look at this!!! It's him avoiding fire and dismissing him. He seems to be confortable with his

position and trying to get him quick lynched.
176: Still keeps at the same thing.
I feel like he has transformed into Zwets.

Good Point, a town player would feel the need to concentrate on just one player

if another one was given him a lot of grief as well.

So who are you investigating

besides fire?

Gotta love the reactions from the 3 of you...
Instead of analysing the case, you come on here and try and verbally beat me up...

I feel the same way.
-battou was the first to address fire's case without just attacking him but logically trying to

discuss.

From what I have read of Millar's posts, he feels D1 bandwagons are usually

controlled by scum since there is so little information to go on.

@millar: do you? What about the Fire waggon?

I am pretty sure, that town do self-vote sometimes. I have done it once, and if

my hunch is correct Korlash who is doing it could very well be on the side of the town as well.

Millar. There's a game where you were town and someone self voted and you told them

that it was scummy and voted for them contradicting this and your view that scum want's to get

out of RVS.

Battousai you post is valued, as personally I don't think I can attempt to

really justify firestarters claims on me...he just wants his cake and wants to eat is also. An

indirect post, was far more useful

How is this post useful? It's you spamming the thread to make fire more suspicious by baseless

repetition.

I've only known scum players to try and make a game serious A.S.A.P
so doing so was a scum tell

Its clearly says that I thought the action was a SCUM-TELL...it doesn't actually mention me

calling anyone scummy. You have to realize that is two very different things. [/quot€]
I don't know how everybody else reads this buy I read it as if it you were saying that it WAS a

scum tell, therefore the person doing it is scummy. How can one drop scum tells but not be

scummy? Maybe if they were null tells.

I have you on 60/40 and once again you remain to LIVE IN THE PAST

What does this mean? Live in the past? That he uses what has happened until now? We all must

live int the past because the past is where we made our actions and we have to answer for them.

Instead of analyzing the case? I'm not interested in your case on Millar, as I am not Millar and I am perfectly capable of analyzing him myself. I am interested in you responding to my case on you which you consistently ignore, even now!

You are my number 1 suspect, and at almost L-1. Any case you make attacking another person filters through the "scum trying to shift his lynch" alarm at this point. Your case on Millar may be useful later, if you flip town, however right now there is no logical reason for me to analyze your wall-o-text Millar cases.

Ok. Isaac is right about asking Fire to answer but he SHOULD read the cases on other players because all info help. You can't tunnel vision so much. Plus, you're only gonna pay attention to the millar case if fire flips town? So you can go for millar? That's why you don't wanna talk about it now? So you don't defend him and later try to use the same posts to lynch him?

Frankly, you aren't in any position to be making attacks, we all know you are suspicious of the people making strong attacks on you. Right now, you should be focused on answering my questions and/or defending yourself.

Basically you're saying: Don't scumhunt. Defend yourself till we finally lynch you.

The fact that another person agrees with me says it all really

Trying to prove yourself with Argument ad Populum yet again. What if they're scum and it's part of an agenda?

Stupid acting like an idiot with posts like this

"Funny guy, no.. really ya are Wink"

What about:

Typing the wrong word is a scum-tell.
Well lah dee dah...I must be scum then.

That wasn't abuse, I was just stating what you are doing...playing like an idiotic because your reasoning is idiotic. If i were to call you a mofo that would be abuse.

I think you're wrong. I feel he has played better than you. I think you've got no right to tell him he is playing like an idiotic (If both of you are town, if you're scum it could be part of your strategy).

I do want to get a quick word in before I start my grueling process of trying to take this all in... Is Fire at L-2? has anyone asked him to claim or has a claim at all been covered? Did he claim already?

mmm... Fishing for a role? What do you guess his role is?

Firestarter:-

Your Tunnel vision is handicapping you......IRONY!

Isacc you need to calm down...IRONY!


Also I think this is a freudian slip:- "BTW, Town need to read these posts. End of. "

Why not fellow townies...you addressed the town once again as if you are a separate organism

Oh god! you say nothing and then try to pull a freudian slip like a wizard pulling a bunny from a hat... er... that didn't came out right...
Whatever, this is you pushing his lynch and manufacturing additional evidence. Usually scum will be more careful to say: We, the town, need to... us townies, I am a town, etc, etc. Town players may not pay that much attention to this.

urgh... to many CAPS in this game. Too much trying to out-shout the other player.

Firestarter- Why don't you do a simple name claim? That way if you have a power-role or a vanilla townie role, it won't be obvious.

I don't follow. What's your idea here?

mmm... have you all noticed that the only thing being discussed is fire's case? How's that good for town?

I second the name claim idea firestarter

What are your reasons behind this?

Firestarter, you need to work on reading comprehension.

This type of attacks annoy me and drive new players away from the site because they feel insulted. You can avoid it Isaac and still make a good case.

Firestarter: Time for a claim. You're at L-2, someone else said earlier they were considering putting you at L-1. Claim, because you are only digging yourself deeper by talking.

Again, Why? Why should he claim?

I said, I am not going to post an entire analysis of your case on Millar. I do not need to debate an entire Millar case, mainly because I don't feel super suspicious of him yet.

Oh! but if you don't investigate his case on millar you can't see if millar is right about him or not. It may be VERY SIGNIFICANT. If he is manufacturing a case then he is probably scum, if he is making a good case then he millar's case would be suffer.

I'm not vivian kudo.

Name claims don't actually mean anything to be honest, and this has somehow taken the pressure off completely as we gone off topic.

Suddenly, something doesn't help you and you quickly dismiss it?

Also I don't like the idea of name claim, the fact that the action was done by you Battousai has actually totally throw me off balance as what to think.

What do you mean?

Well, here's what can be analyzed from the name.

Being the mother of the main guy, the name is probably attached to a town player.

However, being a show featuring

many

characters, it would not be hard for a scum to find a pro-town sounding name.

Also, seeing as she does not appear till episode 43, a part of me doubts the likelihood that the character would appear in this game.

All of this said: I am for a full role claim, before we get to any lynch.

well... looks like Isaac was pretty much set on fire...

Saying your vanilla townie is this game, is like you have brown hair. It doesn't actually mean anything.

However, if you are a vanilla townie then you are the worst example and most scummy one I have ever...and I mean EVER come across

I disagree. Maybe you'll realize at endgame when you find out who is scum (possibly in that waggon).

Also, don't you think the mod may have randomly assigned role to name? Quite often names give end up as red herrings.

Never tired of pushing.

Since Firestarter claimed Vanilla, it would be best just to lynch him. If he is town, then the scum know he is not a powerrole, which then give them a better chance of hitting one.

While we wait, I think we should play the rest of today under the assumption we lynch Firestarter and he turned up vanilla townie. I will post tomorrow as it is getting late and I gotta get up early for my first class tomorrow.

While I would prefer another lynch I can understand your reasons and find you to be a decent player. I don't know why you want to get the game going with your last L-1 vote (after I asked you not to) when we need so much replacements.
@korlash: When you asked for flavour in the claim... what do you mean? You now he can't quote the mod right?.

Am I wrong or he isn't allowed to quote or fake quote the role pm?
243: WOW! here millar tries to blame Fire with the same argument he dismissed when used against him... Battou noted this.

That makes no sense...so my vote is standing on you currently and yet you expect me to backdown and distance myself from you.

How you think these posts are not helping me I do not know.

You're not adding things to your case. Just attacking him. Yes, it is helping you get your lynch but I'm not sure if it's helping the town.

Its not that its is the spelling that I have an issue with, its the fact I don't believe his name claim is true.

riiiight...

Considering its is spelt:

-KAFUFFLE
-it is APPARENTLY

and the fact that the language is broken in places, I am willing to say that you used a minor characters name (who was a protagonist) and made up the role PM as well.

To be honest I am at a cross roads.

1) The previous case and the reasons I thought he was scum are still strong in my decision

2) This claim and what has followed is now actually making me think that actually their is a chance that he might have actually been telling the truth and he is town. (This would not excuse his scummy nature though)

Well. This makes YOU look more town IMO. Admitting you're not sure.

I don't buy Firestarter, but the name claim has nothing to do with it. I agree that he shouldn't talk about it like there's nothing else to talk about, though. "I'm so and so, and I do such and such" would have be enough for me.

If you thought he should talk about something else... Why not tell him what? Why not asking questions?

If anything, SC suspects me more than you because he has had his vote and suspicions on me for much longer

Then why is he voting Fire?

We are at least two weeks off the end of the Day, and I don't see any need to rush in.

We need to lynch Firestarter...... he claimed vanilla.

Why the rush? The only ones that have been in the spotlight are millar and Fire... 4 others with low or null activity... Do you think it's good to have nothing to go on Day 2?

QFT.

Same question.

You have accused me of certain things specifically (we know what they are), yet Sajin is scummier than me based on gut. This is making absolutely no sense to me.

This is true...
@Fire: how did you think it was helpful to post a gut call without a single reason?

I agree with the discrepancies and wifom part, but lynching him for claiming vanilla is stupid. I admit his claim doesn't help but it's hardly a 'main point'...

While I don't like mislynching I think that battou's point of better lynching a vanilla than another player and knowing that Fire won't be killed tonight is not a good idea.

3 Pages to go!

[alexhans]

First I'll adresss the last posts.

The problem with that post is you went from EVERYONE to just two people. You didn't relate to why, and how it was changed. You over exaggerated

and to make matters worse didn't actually bother to quote, which mean you already knew you were trying to make it sound more than it actually was

. It might seem like a null-tell, but after a

while enough null tells form a foundational base for a scum member

.

I thought you had fosed more people. I was wrong.

What makes you assume that if Fire comes up town, that I am necessarily proven scum. If he somehow flips town, it is down to his scumlike play rather than being my fault that I noticed he was scum. People like yourself are almost sounding like you ALREADY know Fire is town, and therefore want a wagon to form as soon as possible.

... *sigh* look, I'll keep it simple:
You and Fire are the only ones who have been in the spotlight. If fire is not scum (wich I don't think right now) tomorrow there won't probably be much to go on. I'm foresseing that scum will try to make you be in the spotlight again because of your case on fire. The other people in the waggon agreed with you but didn't post so big cases. SC and Isaac especially.
You seriously think Fire is scum? I don't. I haven't been involved on the emotional battle that has been going on. I'm a bit colder. I don't find him scummy enough.
God. Already assuming things? I looked up at your ISO to count how many people you had fosed... I thought it was more and was surprised when it was only Battou and Fire. You talked a lot about foses though.
After a while a lot of null tells are scummy??? What is that? Have I commited a lot of null tells in your opinion?

Strangecoug is the only person with logic, as in many ways his idea of me and Firestarting bussing is the only point that actually sounds like it has any solid meaning to it. It doesn't have to neccersary be right, to have strength to it.

SC seems to be the only person with logic? He's been acting like buddying you and has tunnel visioned hard on Fire since it seemed the majority wanted that...

That's a very good case against alexhans there

Why I don't find him agreeing with millar surprising if it involves making his only attacker scummy? 1) he befriends millar 2) he attacks me 3) he doesn't state reasons.

"Buddying"? I define that as defending a player in a scummy manner, and I don't see where millar13 and Firestarter have defended each other all game.

I meant that any of them can be S/s, t/t or s/t... I don't see how would you think one is more likely than the other

I've BEEN asking questions.

at the beginning at millar. yes.
Then only to Fire until he was sure of being lynched.
When I replaced. You fosed me.
When I said I was wary of you. Then you started asking ME questions and trying to make me look scummy.
@SC: I still don't follow your logic of bussing... You said it more than once throughout the game... Why not just say that one being scum doesn't rule the other out? Why repeatedly say they might be bussing?

HOLE READ DONE LAST LONG POST

(relief for many)

What is the difference between spending 2 extra weeks on Day 1 or spending those 2 weeks in D2?

that you might get 4 weeks of gameplay instead of 2...

If you seriously think I would spend 2 weeks helping out town, as scum, you are seriously deluded.

I agree. Scum would prefer a lynch now than later if that is definite.

If no-one thinks that leaving me alive until D1 expires, fair enough.

I may have come late but... HELLO!

I disagree. A vote is not sacred. Expect to see me put votes around often. Its all a part of the pressure game. I actually find it slightly scummy when people rarely vote at all, especially in the face of good evidence (granted, that is subjective). I find it akin to lurking, its like sitting on the sidelines.

mmm... I don't know. Sometimes it's scum but sometimes it may be indecition.

We're all adults here, but I still think I should say, this is only a game folks. Lets try not to rip each other apart when we play.

QFT.

Stranger and isacc basically sit back and give millar a pat on the back and say he's doing a good job so far.

This worries me a lot.

I dislike seeing people try to figure info from just the name. That assumes the mod isn't competent to prevent his game from being broken. I advise against it.

What would you say if someone suggested a name massclaim?
I liked your analysis of townie lynching or not. I'm not sure if it's right given all the possible WIFOM that will happen (regarding Fire) tomorrow if we mislynch today.

There's so much spotlight on fire and millar this whole game, it would be easy for scum to just be quiet and let the day pan out.

QFT.
Good idea with the not millar/fire question.

And claiming who we think is town and who is not here lets scum set up day 2 better. We already have a decent lynch.

SO YOU REFUSE TO ANSWER THE QUESTION? YOu think you suspecting scum and being killed later is an obvious procedure for scum?
@krolash: same question. Everything can and will be manufactured and WIFOMeD by scum... So what? We should shut up?

Ok, fire and stranger riding millar was working. he was breaking, but you guys took it a bit far. You were nitpicking over really inane things, like his wording.

I'm sorry, but it takes more than "you're overdoing this" to get me to relax the pressure.

In fact, I know SC to be agressive with his victim. SO it's consistent with his play (town or scum).

Firestarter seems not to care about being lynched, which to me is tantamount to resignation from the game, yet he's still pushing millar13 and me. I'm confused as to whether he really wants to continue playing.

Dismissing him as not wanting to play? I'm having very bad vibes about you Coug (SC)...You shouldn't have to nullify him if he attacks you. You should refute his logic.

It seems that most are happy to not say anything until Im lynched, therefore minimising the chance they'll come across scummy.

QFT.

He's fine with being lynched and is asking for more time to waste

How is the time wasted?

Actually, Firestarter's resignation towards being lynched makes him seem more townie to me. Why?

If he was scum, he I can see acting resigned and acceptant to being lynched as a gambit, and indeed, firestarter did just that back when he was at l-4 (I believe it was l-4 at that point).

QFT.

As a side note, I think it's scummy how quickly you people want to end this day. Rushing a day only leads to mistakes being made, and bad judgment calls. But of course, that's all a matter of opinion.

I agree with you.

[alexhans]

@SC:

The standout here is that two people ≠ everybody.

Right, but you said "That's a

very good case

against alexhans there". You think it's a case? Isn't it just a point where I was wrong? Do you think a very good case merits a lynch? You called millar's case on Fire a good case but this is a "Very good case"?

2) So would you be ok with a millar lynch right now instead of Fire?

3) He does want to play. He's been posting a lot. He just had everyone (NOT really everyone, A great number of people) voting against him and dismissing his answers. I think it can be pretty demoralizing. You suggest a town player to self-hammer? That is anti-town! Only scum self-hammer when they don't want to disclose any more information.... Plus there will be one less person in his lynch waggon that has to explain their motives.

4) Let me handle millar. He at least seems, although some times wrong, to have good intentions.

5) Maybe he feels he CANT continue. But it's better to ask him. All I know is that his defenses have gone unheard. Sow the seeds of discord? What do you mean by that? Does it preocupie you he signaled you as a possible millar scumbuddy? (I don't think this, mind you)

And I'm gonna tell everyone something else before SC starts attacking me further.. Pacman wasn't doubted at all up till now. Why would I put all this effort and try to defend things that Fire said and boost discussion against a lynch if I was scum? It would be really much easier to just add some little things and go along with the flow of the game. I might be a bit messy. But I'm trying to help the town.

------------------

@korlasch:

How is the time wasted?

Because he asked a really dumb question and then responded with a vague inane answer when i questioned him about it. Neither one of them shows me he plans on using the extra time in a useful manner.

Ok. But, as Battou suggested earlier (though now he has already voted) we could just assume that Fire is gonna flip town and keep talking until the end of day. Then when he flips, we will have talked a lot more than up till now.

And we really need to get replacements before day 2 starts. Or it will be really hard to play.

Dude, it's not fishing when someone is at L-2. If anything I'll argue I was trying to save his life. Maybe if you try to keep the BS accusations to a minimum your posts wouldn't be so long.

MY first long post were my notes, questions are not necesarilly accusations. I posted them like that because I was afraid that someone might hammer after Battou's L-1.

I'm sorry, have you not heard? It's this new invention called paraphrasing. You pull key words and prashes from your flavor and then fill in the rest with your own stuff. As far as what I meant, I mean any themed flavor put in his role PM that coud help confirm it as a real role. I hardly asked him to "quote" anything.

I know what paraphrasing is. You don't need to mock me.
Look. I'm ok if you just give me the answers. Why do you act like that when answering? I want to know things. It doesn't necesarilly mean I think you're scum. I just think this game has been excessively focused on only 2 people.

This is a very confusing statement just because of the wording. But overlooking that as it doesn't matter, yes, that is a dumb point.

Rephrasing:
- I don't like mislynching.
- Battou said that if we don't lynch a claimed vanilla that is seen as scummy by a big amount of people scum will go for another player (hoping to hit a PR) and try to get him lynched eventually.
- I somewhat agree with it but I have mixed feelings.

------------

There is a chance, and I think it is growing in likelihood that Firestarter and myself could both me townies, and that a wagon is rolling. Scum might actually be lurking or watching as the town implodes.

This is what I've been fearing. This is why I wanted discussion and not a hammer.

----------------

oh... SC... the game you mentioned with so many replacements... how did it go?

[alexhans]

Wow. I'm actually glad how you rushed to vote me. Self-defense? Afraid? It's really interesting. And finally the game will move from just Fire/millar.

It very well could be, but again, you shouldn't be blowing things out of proportion.

I'm blowing things out of proportion but you seconded a point made by millar and already think I'm scummy enough to vote? You say a very good case merits a lynch and the case against is a very good case? (Great! Lynch the replacement who is wary of you)

millar13 can handle himself.

*sigh* I mean I can handle MY communication with millar. I don't control him.

You sow the seeds of discord by creating internal conflict within your enemy. He's basically said "go after these people when I'm dead and buried". If he's scum and the people he says to attack end up flipping town, then he will be guilty of lining up lynches, something I've accused him of once before.

He can do it but we won't follow just because he said so.

This is the second time you've committed WIFOM, and that along with you constantly saying one thing when the reality is another is really getting on my nerves here.

Yeah... WIFOM... I don't say it should prove my innocence... I'm telling everyone to think about it. But you seem trying to attack me for little things.

The Mafia won prisoner's dilemma.

Then I'm right. Rushing to lynch and too many replacements can crap a game all over.

Finally. Know that this is in-game. I think you're scummy. I appreciate you all the same OUTSIDE this game
-----
@korlasch:
-Discussion, IMO, is always good. Scum usually messes up along the way. Regardless of the attitudes.
-Maybe it will be fine to get replacements at night. I don't know... It will definetly be a long night.

And did I ever say you called me scum? sounds like someone has a guilty Conscience...

And how am I supposed to answer that? It's lame. Some people feel that when you question them you're making a case because you think they're guilty.

[alexhans]

mmm... You may have a point regarding the replacement's willingness based on the amount of pages...

But I think I want to discuss at least a bit further what I've been writing... I want answers from the active players that I talked to.
And opinions on SC's case on me. My doubts regarding SC. etc.

oh... sorry I edit with notepad and didn't remember your name exactly... You mind if I call you Kor?

The answer would be, "No Korlasch, you said that

You realize you messed your name up?

[alexhans]

Sajin- What are you suspicious of SC for? Don't say "I agree with Firestarter."

QFT.

Its the same thing we didn't like about SC when he agreed with millar's case on fire.

[alexhans]

Sajin- What are you suspicious of SC for? Don't say "I agree with Firestarter."

QFT.

Its the same thing we didn't like about SC when he agreed with millar's case on fire.

last page I said I am suspicious and you quote and agree with me. Then you slam me for actualizing my suspicions with a vote a page later. What gives?

I'm saying that voting without giving reasons is not satisfying for the town. At least state them simply but do it or it will not help us.

[alexhans]

No... it is not... Scum Run Discussion is alway detrimental and disasterous to the town.

But we don't know who scum is! We all discuss and try to find scum tells and argue points until someone looks probable scum.

Also, his 240 looks alot like a partial role pm quote, and I'm confused

as to why he wasn't modkilled.

Then you haven't paid much attention to the game. He clearly stated how he

posted the flavour without quoting.

Strangercoug is scum.

If you die and flip town, there will still be stuff that I can get on millar13

for.

That is the exact type of scumslip that no one caught me on way back when in Facedown

and Thirsty.

Plus there's the whole issue with being so eager to please, especially regarding

Isacc.

vote: Strangercoug

Hah! That's your whole case? did you even read the entire game? No commentary on anything that has happened? No thoughts about anything?

alexhans is scum too.

Too many reasons to count, but I'm too lazy to dig them up

right now

. Maybe Saturday (prom is tommorrow, so you get nothing then).

Ok. So far you just came down and stated that 2 people were town (one gut call) and two were scum... You must be a great scum-hunter! You know so much and explain so little... You accuse me but leave it at that? Couldn't you at least state a key reason? Are you to lazy to dig it up or to look for a case to manufacture? And someone said I was anti-town... posting votes on Thursday and saying you won't explain till Saturday ... come on.

Well... from your wiki I see you're and agressive player and you are far more concerned with semantics than you should be, apparently... Whatever. I thought being agressive meant attacking with reasons too.

@Sajin. I too feel you haven't provided a decent case against SC. You just seemed to go along with the flow.

[alexhans]

I don't think you have provided a viable defense for him.

Wait! who are you talking about? SC? When did I defend him?

[alexhans]

@Korlash: I understand your point of lynching Fire(Although I consider him town and would prefer to lynch someone I consider Scum), As I said to battou. But I don't undestand why we must rush it.
You're giving to much emphasis in the info we will gain when he flips... I don't think it's gonna make us find scum that easy.
How is he detrimental to the town?

Have you even given a point why sharing the "lists" right before a lynch is so much more important then sharing it at the start of day 2

If you're scum andyou start at day 2 you can choose from alive people and conviniently push towards who you want lynched. If you say who you think is scum before you won't be able to change so easyly without explaining. Why do you refuse to say who you suspect? This is mafia! It's our job.

By your style we should be anti town along the day so we don't get nightkilled... That's what Wall-e did on a game... act scummy to avoid nightkill. He was lynched If you must take one for the team. Then do it. Because if your suspicions follow go down to your grave then it's useless for town if you were right.

I, as Fire, feel you're too tunnel-visioned.

... *sigh* No scum want to appear pro-town. saying "I've been helping out town for two weeks" is more likely done by scum then saying "If you are town you need to be lynched today" and whatever else people think I said that was scummy.

Rephrase please

This is because your wagon had lost some support, some people were calling you town, and that new guy said you looked sincere or whatever. I've been most concerned with trying to get your wagonback up to full speed and so I've been going after those thoughts and not the fact your claim is BS. Although granted i should have brought that up again earlier, for that it is my bad.

And sorry nw guy, not time to look up your name but you know who you are. This is not meant to be insulting I'm just super short on time and am trying to bust this out ASAP before I leave.

It's ok. ALEXHANS! I sparked new discussion though. If Fire was lynched just when I arrived there would only have been Fire vs Everyone (Almost, I tend to use everyone often, you see) and nothing else.

I don't think discussion is bad, by the way. I feel that discussion from everybody is always good. NO matter if it's scum or town. It's registered. So it definetly can let scum-tells show.
The only discussion that might not be good is when you know or suspect someone to be a PR and say it out in the open. That's uncool.

2. You having been acceptant to your lynch is another reason you will be under suspicion in the future. Although it's hardly as big a deal as the claim so I'm just going to stick with that.

Haven't you ever seen town accept their lynch? Scum would be more desperate to survive.

... Seeing as how you yourself had resolved to being lynched off M13 and SC's case they can't have been weak. that's a contradiction from you right there. Their case was so good you yourself agreed to lynch you... I mean... that kinda proves right there their case had to be super freaking awesome.

He actually resigned to the fact that he wouldn't be lynched. That's different.
------------
@Kairyuu:

@alexhans: I'm too lazy to update my wiki. The semantics thing is barely valid any more. Also, as I said, prom is tonight, and I'll be out until probably 3 or 4 am with that, so you get to deal with me not doing a ful read until then.

Oh! but it's there and you just voted based on a semantics thing... So.... you vote but don't full read? Specially since you won't be able to post soon? How's that pro-town?

@Strangercoug: I'll respond fully to your points when I have some more time. I'm pretty much just doing quick checking in posts in all of my games and then leaving again.

just Checking your posts? You voted for him... that's not a check up. That's pretty serious.
-------
@Battou:

I think the only reason some people (forgot who all is on the wagon right now) are voting Korlash is because he is being more outspoken about it, which, imo, is more townie.

I agree. I consider it a null tell.

I actually forget what Alex was voting me for... And what's his name used my inactivity as a reason. So neither of them are even voting me mainly for what I've been saying here.

I totally forgot Pacman was voting you

unvote

he voted in 27 agreeing with your self vote... I don't know if it's a joke or he votes you because he don't like self voters.

M13's case wasn't weak...

That's your opinion. I've posted a lot of things giving examples of why I found millar inconsistent and making a bad case on Fire.
--------
@Fire: You seriously believe Korlash is scum? Isn't your vote a grudge?
err... I guess you answered...

I dont think your silly, I think your being inherently scummy...
When I was on the chopping block, your posting was steady and deliberate, I feel.
Now that my lynch has become "less-inevitable" you are really trying to have it re-ignited, by whichever argument you deem necessary. Its become more desperate as time has passed, culminating in you wanting me lynched as town, and now as scum, fundamentally starting from very weak cases by M13, then SC

---------------

i don't need to cover my ass. What I am doing is for the benefit of the town as a whole, I'm like the hero of a movie who knows there's a plot to assassinate the president but no one believes me and everyone thinks my brother was a terorist and... wait... this is the plot of Eagle Eye... hmmm...

LOL. This is going to my wiki quotes.

@everyone: Regarding the English or japanese thing... Does anyone else has english names in their role? Mine sounds japanese. Do you have a list of english/japanese name relation? I want to see if there's a translation in the english version or not.

[alexhans]

Did I say that it was totally invalid? No. I didn't. I said barely valid, meaning that I rarely use it anymore. Whoohoo.

Ok. But you used a semantics argument to support a poor quick vote. Regardless of what you or the wiki say.

Also, as to the second bit, learn to read. I said that I had less than an hour to read the whole thread and post. You try pulling off a full read of this game in that amount of time.

Then why feel the need to vote without all the facts?

Again, learn to read. In THAT POST. The one you QUOTED, I was checking in on the thread because I didn't have much time. Do not misrep me. I voted him in a completely different post.

But what I'm saying is that you voted for SC (410) without having read the whole game and without a case but a little semantic detail you think is scummy. Then you mentioned me as SCUM (and tell me if it doesn't give the impression that you're very sure) but didn't explained why. Saying that there were too many reasons to count:

alexhans is scum too. Too many reasons to count, but I'm too lazy to dig them up right now. Maybe Saturday (prom is tommorrow, so you get nothing then).

Now you vote me for, apparently, misreping you...

unvote

vote: alexhans

Misrep does not suit you, scum.

This is the second time you've called me scum... But you don't give the reasons that you were supposed to give... That was all you had against SC? You switch your vote solely because of my last post?

[alexhans]

@alexhans:

Also, I do generally back things I say up with evidence. Lots of it. Pages and pages sometimes. However, this game was a pain in the ass to read in the hour I had to catch up and post before going to bed last night, so I skimmed instead. I'll probably just go with it for a bit, and then do a full reread once I have some more time on my hands in a few days.

That adresses all of your points. When I have more than a few minutes at a time to spend here then you get your reread. Until then you get to deal with me doing things as I go.

I don't think it does...

That was all you had against SC? You switch your vote solely because of my last post?

You can answer these...

Anyway, I'm gonna let you do your reread and tell me everything that has gone through your mind to act like you did.

Hope you had fun in the prom...

[alexhans]

So... Battou... Do you think he is scum? Or just want him lynched for your gameplay reason? (meaning that he would be probably lynched later on)

I think his situation was desperate and he had given up trying to survive. Now, if he sees he has some hope... why does he have to curl up and die? I don't understand how that's supposed to be scummy.

[alexhans]

So? ...

SC... how's that post helpful? How can you accuse someone of posting fluff with that kind of posts?

[alexhans]

Well... You could have written that in the first place...

[alexhans]

And if you think Battousai's random vote is scummy, then why didn't you vote him the first time it was brought up?

This is a lame question. Always. "Why didn't you say so before"? typical of wanting to dismiss a case instead of addressing it.

Look, Battou voted M13 for not voting in RVS (being anti town) and then M13 voted Battout for applying tactics. Korlash agreed that they were tactics. No one else disputed that it was a serious vote. After, when called upon it. Battou says it was not serious but a random vote. That way he is not pressured.

[alexhans]

@battou:
I'll try to make myself clearer. I knew it was hard to explain.

Fire is about to be lynched...
Everyone (almost) seems to be against him and not care what he says. They just use it against him.
He's annoyed. He responds in desperation.
Finally, he sees that he is going to be lynched.
He accepts his fate but tries to help town by giving something else besides his lynch.
Then Super Alexhans comes and starts trying to move the game and look at other people.
The game gets moving and there are other cases/accusations.
Fire now knows that there is hope to lynch scum.

Now. Do you see my reasoning? Why would it be scummy to accept his fate? Why would be scummy to renew his hopes and try to lynch scum?

It's not scummy. It's a null tell. I'm not saying it makes him town, I'm just refuting a point that Kor used to validate his lynch.

How is that a contradiction? I random voted him, and my reason was that he didn't want to vote. How is that different from voting someone for, I don't know, just finishing a game containing an enemy to town, named Rage?

Come on dude, let's not joke ourselves... IT IS different. You were voting for him for a decent reason. Something that he could respond to. If I say you smell like my socks and vote you there's nothing you can do about it but shrug. Your vote was definetly not the same.

I was also gone when the whole thing happened, so if I wasn't I would have said my vote was random earlier. But of course we can't know that, and can only speculate if I would have.

Whatever. as long as you agree it wasn't entirely random. We could call it semi-random with motives.


Hell! Im gonna make this clear:
@everyone: Do you think Fire is scum or not?

[alexhans]

Hi kairyuu.... when are you gonna post that reasons against me and SC? (Or at least at me if that was the only thing you had against SC)

[alexhans]

At least say what made me so scummy in brief.

[alexhans]

At the moment, I don't remember what jumped out at me in my skim through.

However, the misrep didn't look too good either.

I'm calling the rest gut until I reread.

Sorry, I just don't remember. I'm in too many games right now.

Cool. really cool. You don't remember so you want to say that one post was misrep and that that is scummy to excuse yourself? Come on.... You can't just call someone scum saying that there are so many reasons to count and after not being able to remember ONE!

That's why you musn't say things if you can't back them up. I assume you're now gonna try to cover your attitude finding some equally weak things as your misrep accussation...

[alexhans]

I don't care about winning town points. It's just that I don't like your attitude since the beginning. You could be a bit more conservative and wait till you have something to attack people. Imagine how you'd feel if someone says... Kairyuu is scum for so many reasons I can't state right now... And then they leave it at that... You would say... WTF! this guy's pushing other people on me without even saying why...

[alexhans]

I have to defend Kairyuu here, as I have been out for the same period of time and for the same reasons (prom yay!), and you guys have posted such an utterly ridiculous Wall-o-text frenzy that it's nearly impossible to keep up. I am a pretty heavy poster at times and I even think it's getting out of hand with the super-massive overly-complicated posts.

What does it have to do with giving reasons for something that he supposedly already knows or otherwise wouldn't have stated? What if I say you are scum (matter of factly) for so many reasons and don't back them up...

And, I'm doing my best to catch back up, but you guys will have to wait a tad on me too, as it is the last week of school.

I'm not worried with replacements taking their time (I took mine) but I don't like unsupported accussations flying around.

[alexhans]

Just a reminder so you're not confused guys. Kairyuu is actually voting SC.
This is the post: 410
But I don't feel, although I am suspicious of SC, that his case is any good.

ahh, hell... I'll just quote it.

millar is town, and waaay better than he was when he first got here a couple months ago.

He's scumhunting, and making some sense. My read is mostly gut though, and I'm not digging through that again for town tells, mostly because that would be stupid either way.

Firestarter is town too (though I wish I wasn't so sure of that, since he's a nuisance).

This one is more solid. The resignation was way too sincere to be faked, and the position he was in when it happened was too dangerous to try that as scum.

Also, his 240 looks alot like a partial role pm quote, and I'm confused as to why he wasn't modkilled.

Strangercoug is scum.

If you die and flip town, there will still be stuff that I can get on millar13 for.

That is the exact type of scumslip that no one caught me on way back when in Facedown and Thirsty.

Plus there's the whole issue with being so eager to please, especially regarding Isacc.

vote: Strangercoug

alexhans is scum too. Too many reasons to count, but I'm too lazy to dig them up right now. Maybe Saturday (prom is tommorrow, so you get nothing then).

Korlash and Battou should note his Fire is town statement. You didn't even address it.
The modkill thing was clear. I don't know why he suggests after saying someone is town, that he should be modkilled. That's not very cool.
Then goes after SC for a supposed Slip and that he is to eager to please (without giving examples) and that alone is enough for a vote. Then mentions me but never says anything else.

[alexhans]

oh... right... voting me for misrep... I forgot. That's even worst. Look at the supposed misrep.

I know you addressed it. But you only talked to me. Never mentioned that Kairyuu thought the same. But it's ok. you might have thought he would say something about it and he didn't.

[alexhans]

I'm trying to comprise my suspicious of people in this game so far in a short easy way.
Kairyuu, you just replaced into this game. Don't start sayin replace me or lynch me. Read when you have time, ASAP. And start posting questions, cases, opinions, whatever.

[alexhans]

Comprised read on every player.

Battousai:

He leaves Fire at L-1 after I said I didn't want him hammered. Sometimes feels town sometimes scum. He acts like a judge asking here and there.

Korlash:

while I may not agree with his line of thoughts. I don't see him as particularly scummy. He asked for flavour but then condemned Fire for that flavour. Says we are wasting time. That, I didn't like.

GhostWriter:

Am I missing something or does he still needs a replacement?

Lindisfarne (Dubya):

Neutral read. He has posted logical and good observations and asked good questions. I like him. made a good point that SC and Isaac just patted on the back while millar carried the case.

Isacc:

In his first real post he already states that Fire is scum. Casually when Fire was getting heat. Opportunistic? I don't like his attitude towards Fire. Pushing too hard. Also the fact that he announced that he was going to change his playstyle... meta-inmune? Very aggressive. Ad Hominem. Super tunnel vision. re-reading apparently.

Firestarter:

Well... He did so many things. The suspicion on millar, I think was genuine and right. Then everybody (almost) started attacking him and he got paranoid and started yelling at everyone in frustration. I didn't like when he said that he had found a scumbuddy in Isaac that matter-of-factly. Now he is throwing votes at any players he suspects. It's like a merry go round. He is totally unsure and thinking... A is scum... then searches A thinking he is scum and finds a lot of supposed scum tells... then he switches to B... same process... I think he is loosing investigation credibility. I strongly suspect he is town and that his claim is true. Maybe he just needs to keep it a bit simpler.

Inquisitor Vulcan Skorn (Rage):

Hasn't caught up yet. Apparently.

Millar13:

I see a lot of mistakes and inconsistencies. But I also think that are most likely town play seeing he is now having second thoughts. He got a bit tunnel visioned and carried away.

Sajin:

He votes for SC without justification. Low content. Seemed to go along with Fire's vote and SC's vote without much justification. Strange reaction when I told him to explain his SC vote.

StrangerCoug:

Well. My most suspicious character. I was preparing my post and he fosed me for the slightest thing, I wrote my suspicions and he voted for me. Now Sajin votes for him, he votes for Sajin. He supported the case that looked more like a lynch. Pushed hard on fire without explaining much but made sure that millar was seen as suspicious too and stated repeatedly that they looked like bussing. Odd. He was quick to dismiss the fire claim. millar noted a generalization by my part and SC calls it inmediatly a "very good" case. I was going on hard into SC at the time.

Kairyuu (Afatchic):

AFC did nothing but joked around with SC, OMGUS jokes. Nothing. I wouldn't discard scumteam. Kairyuu replaced and accuses SC and me as scum. About SC he gives a little bit of a case. Against me. Nothing. Until I question him and he votes me for misrep. Now unvotes.
------------------

Vote Pattern:

Battou: Millar13, Fire, unvote, Fire.
AFC/Kayriuu: SC, unvote, SC, Alexhans.
Lindisfarne (Dubya): Korlash
Fire: Rage, AFC, millar, unvote, millar, unvote, millar, SC, Korlash, Battou.
Korlash: Korlash, Fire
Inquisitor Vulcan Skorn (Rage):pacman, unvote
Alexhans (pacman): Korlash, unvote.
Isaac: GhostWriter, Fire, unvote
millar: Fire, Unvote, Fire.
Sajin: Fire, SC.
SC: AFC, millar, Fire, Alexhans, Sajin.
GhostWriter: Dubya.
--------------
Some thoughts about the last posts:

at the time of my pressuring him fire was voting him and kairu had accused but not posted anything.

And I had accused him strongly too.

You had given absolutely no original input to my case when you voted me, and I was not the first person to step up and comment about it.

QFT
Although I am wary of SC in this fight between him and Sajin SC is the winner due to his more intelligent ways of discussing.

Besides if I personally list them then SC would just claim some were not attacks, and this one was weak etc etc.

I don't like this at all. Saying you're not gonna make a case because they're going to say is weak means you believe your case is weak or null.

This was the post where Sajin voted SC: 376.

In fact, I'm gonna quote it:

I have been fooled enough by fake tells to know this.

Please elaborate on this point.

I cannot elaborate without breaking forum conduct rules, namely referencing other mafia websites and/or ongoing games. Suffice it to say its happened before.

That said, I like your arguments here.

unvote, vote: strangercoug

then when I ask reasons along with Battou.

Sajin- What are you suspicious of SC for? Don't say "I agree with Firestarter."

QFT.

Its the same thing we didn't like about SC when he agreed with millar's case on fire.

last page I said I am suspicious and you quote and agree with me.

Then you slam me

for actualizing my suspicions with a vote a page later. What gives?

I "slamed" him?? weird reaction. This is my quote

Referencing all those scum tactics is scummy in my opinion. Purely because doing so casts doubt rather than digs up any information.

This is what I've been trying to say.

While I agree with the point the way in wich Sajin handled himself regarding SC's vote was wrong.

Sc, however, quickly attacked Sajin. That seems to be his MO. Attacking his attacker. Like his fos on me and then vote.

I also dislike the way in wich SC tries to pin Sajin down with the 80/20 statement. That's a lawyer-like trap. Not good. Sajin isn't voting Fire.

The thing about Sajin is that he switched from defending a Fire lynch because it would give us info to an SC lynch the he didn't explain much when SC seemed to be in the spotlightb because of me and Fire.

Well... I've decided to vote. I think it's the right choice.

Vote StrangerCoug

.

[alexhans]

"He acts like a judge asking here and there"

Is that scummy/townie/null?

You pick one. I don't know. I can't read you. But I prefer to keep you around because you seem to scum hunt and be logical.

[alexhans]

@alexhans: I have not unvoted, and don't plan to unless someone else strikes me as scummier than you when I finally get around to reading the full thread.

I hope you'll tell us someday why on earth do you found me so scummy that there were to many reasons to count... I think I just touched your pride there and you won't let go. You can admit you were wrong you know. Anyway, You're welcome to ask me any questions you want.

[alexhans]

EBWOP: Oh... Also... In my comprised read I posted that Kairyuu "now unvotes" when it was really ISaac who did.

[alexhans]

WTF?? who is Death the Hogfather? I would think that he is Kairyuu's alt account but he posted with 1 minute difference...

[alexhans]

@alex: don't base anything off people's wikis. Hell, anyone who reads mine would really get the wrong idea about me. It's just a little place for some silly info, not the best place to delve playstyle from.

meh... I go to the wiki to look for meta but I saw that and found it to be relevant. I think it talks about people a bit. It can tell us if people joke or are dead serious about their games. Anyway, what really annoys me is his calling me scum matter of factly without explaining.

[alexhans]

What kair is doing is not very scummy, alex is being a bit overly defensive in my eyes

I'm not over defending... I'm not understanding.... I don't care if it's L-1 or L-5000... I just want to see what he has to say for himself. Isn't his attitude strange? I just want him be responsible for his actions.

Explain, in your own words, what you think Kair is doing and why it's not very scummy.

[alexhans]

@Lindis: Yeah... but he never said I was scummy... he said:
SC is scum (and votes)
Alexhans is scum.
That looks pretty sure of himself to not know what to accuse me of later. And when I question him he votes me for misrep??? Come on... I think I'm entitled to require some content that expresses his reasons for his actions.

but I know that badgering him about it or his attitude won't speed things up at all

whatever. I want explanations.

[alexhans]

He is still first in the votecount if I'm not mistaken so it wouldn't be a good tactic if he were scum... However, your attempt to make him look scummy for just anything is noted.

[alexhans]

Yes... but you fail to say so...

You just said

The day before deadline. OK...

and leave us to imagine what we want... Why don't you try to be a bit more clear as to the purpose of your sentences?

[alexhans]

He is still first in the votecount if I'm not mistaken so it wouldn't be a good tactic if he were scum... However, your attempt to make him look scummy for just anything is noted.

Your attempt to make him look townie for just anything is noted.

But seriously, WIFOM completely. In fact scum could skip out while ahead to dodge any last minute questions and discussion, and to leave their vote on someone without having to explain why it was kept to deadline. I'm pretty sure it is a nulltell.

Guess I'm used to people lynching whoever answers less near deadline... especially if they have been so much in the spotlight.

@kor: I just wish that those who don't share are not killed tonight because that would make their info worthless.

[alexhans]

even if youre 80 % sure he is town?

[alexhans]

Who did ever say no lynch man? Are you more certain that SC is scum or that Fire is scum? If you think SC is scummier vote for SC regardless of how many votes Fire has... You musn't act taking others into account when voting. Vote for who you think is more scummy and no one is gonna will fault you if you give enough reasons.

[alexhans]

If Fire is scum, then this is a damning post for sure. Also, threats of pressure are stupid, because if you threaten scum they could just kill you and be done with it. This sounds like you are looking for an excuse to go after anyone who ends the Day before you've set up your false connections.

Me wanting to participate in the game before a lynch is scummy? Me wanting to prevent a lynch of a player I found town is scummy? This sounds like you're trying to grab any post I write and pretend it's scummy.

This is totally OMGUS. SC questions you, so you say you're suspicious of him? Pfftt.

Did he question me? NO! he just fosed me before I could even post my thoughts. I believe he saw it as a threat to the assembled Fire lynch.
dude... You said SC and me were scum and that I OMGUS him??? How does that make sense?

This may be a valid point. When I get to SC, if this holds then this may count in your favor.

I don't follow. What does "When i get to SC" mean?

millar has played well. I have a pretty decent town read on him. So yeah, SC is right here. millar>Firestarter.

Millar has played well? Did you read the same game as me? He was full of inconsistencies since his first posts... broken fingers, tactics, Not voting scum seriousness, etc, etc. I disagree.

This is bullshit. Are you seriously trying to defend yourself with the fact that you're a replacement? You are at your own skill level regardless of whether you start a game or replace in.

Did you miss the part where I say "unless they're scum"? No, I don't defend myself. I say that usually replacements are helpful for town because they're more objective.

Thank you for confirming SC's point in the process of denying it.

Elaborate. I don't understand.

You really seem to have your hackles up here. There is no reason to get so antsy over a simple FOS.

Do you know what that FoS is for? For saying "smart mislynch". Serious dude...

Wow... Usually what scum says when they don't know how to push a quicklynch when not every player is playing. I haven't posted my notes in 24 hs and you are already calling for a hammer? Aren't you a little bit interested in what I might have to say?

This reads as "OMG don't lynch my scumbuddy before I get a chance to shift the wagon!"

No, this reads as "How come you want to hammer when I haven't even been able to post".

Please note how much of a complete hypocrite you are. You were doing the EXACT SAME THING that I've been doing, and you have the nerve to call me out for it? PFFFTTT!!

Have I? I wrote as soon as I could and in no way called anyone scum for sure as you did. I also stated a preview of my suspicions. You just called me scum and told me to deal with it because you didn't know what to say.

And then you make, what, is that a case? On who? You pretty much rail on everyone voting Fire, but only accuse SC of being scummy, and for crap reasons

What are those crap reasons in your opinion? You thought SC was scum for one supposed slip. And I give a whole case and you call it crap?

Now we get to your "long post," which is allll over the place. There is no cohesive argument in there. It's pretty much just you trying to fling as much crap on as many people as you can. Possibly trying to see what sticks so you can press further.

A few more posts chock full of crap slinging and buddying to batt and we get to the point where I got here. From there on I've said what I needed to say on you.

You're saying nothing here. You're just tossing accusations dude. If you say something explain why... I could just go with...
"kairyuu sucks, he doesn't make sense, his vote is crap, he is scum" but that wouldn't be valid because I wouldn't be backing up my statement.

Also, note that you seem to have a problem with my attacking SC, even though YOU were all over him for most of the game. Pot kettle much?

....*sigh*. I just thought you didn't have a case on him to call him scum. You just said he was scum (and looked very positive) or one phrase he had said. That was not a good case. If I vote for SC is because I find him probably scummy. But if someone jumps on his waggon for no reason I will be highly suspicious. That's exactly what happened with Sajin's vote. I didn't like it at all. Even though he votes the same as me. What if SC is town? I'm gonna leave opportunistics get away with lynching him? no.

Case enough for you?

It's better than before. But if you look at my answers you'll see that I'm not satisfied at all.

@all: Based on observations from this post, I think that alexhans implicates Firestarter as scum, and since deadline lynch is almost assuredly going to be Fire,

simply due to deadline

, I will

Is this necessary? Or are you covering your ass? So you don't think SC is scum anymore?
Fire was about to be lynched... Do really think I, as scum, would try to defend a practically condemned partner? Wouldn't that be a giveaway? And what if Fire flips town? Are you gonna accuse me of buddying? because that's what I'm predicting

alexhans scum for tomorrow kthxbai

Regardless of any info we may get? good. Really pro town.

----

Good case on alexhans, though.

Again... Why? What is good...? Specify. What do you think about my answers?

[alexhans]

I'd like to point out this is wrong. SC fos'd you after your second post, where you call Fire town and the threat to anyone who hammers (I believe that would be consider a thought of yours). Therefore, SC had a right to Fos you if he found that scummy.

Hello! "Smart Mislynch"!!!???
Here it is...

I'm on page 6 and already afraid that there is gonna be a smart myslinch regarding Fire.

Excuse me, but, uh... "smart mislynch"? The only way I'm making sense of this is if you know Firestarter to be town, which is impossible in a day start unless you're scum.

FoS: alexhans

So the fact that I think Fire is town is taken as if I knew he was town and therefore mafia? Riiiiight...
As I've said, I found highly relevant that a player that I had just replaced as scum (and finished a game with) would FoS me for the first thing I post. I looked like prevention against me. Accuse him before he accuses you. And he was casually the player I was liking less when I wrote what I wrote.

So this states you know SC FoS'd you for one of your thoughts, its just that you don't agree with SC that it was scummy.

Oh... So THAT was scummy? Saying smart mislynch? I honestly can't believe it.

I don't get what was wrong with that. My interpretation was that you were basically testing the waters by making as many cases as you can, which is more likely to come from scum than town.

You don't see what's wrong with saying my cases are crap and that Im buddying, bussing, talking crap, without saying what he is referring to?
When I'm testing the waters? How?
And if you mean that asking questions and investigating more than 1 person is scummy then you're the one who's making scummy statements... What do you want me to do? Tunnel vision? That IS scummy. I'm gonna be open minded and look for evidence for myself. Not follow up on another guy's post without saying anything relevant.

FoS: Alex

These answers have really taken away from your defense of Kairyuu's case.

So you FoS me exactly why? Taken me away? What do you mean? Give a clear reason... Am I avoiding something?
Have you read the case? I thought you judged better... He just dismisses my case to SC as crap, say I'm talking BS, I fling as much crap on many people as I can, Full of crap, buddying, hypocrite, first I'm defending my scumbuddy then I'm buddying... All of that COMPLETELY unexplained. look at the post and tell me if he explains succesfully what he is talking about.

@everyone: Read Kairyuu's post... And then tell me if his case is a case and if battou's FoS is valid.

@all: Based on observations from this post, I think that alexhans implicates Firestarter as scum, and since deadline lynch is almost assuredly going to be Fire, simply due to deadline, I will

I implicate Fire as scum??? That's his excuse for voting him??? Good one.
Let me remember something:

Firestarter is town too (though I wish I wasn't so sure of that, since he's a nuisance).

This one is more solid. The resignation was way too sincere to be faked, and the position he was in when it happened was too dangerous to try that as scum.

Quick, convenient, change of mind. SC doesn't think you're acting weird and so you rapidly forget about him right? but now, since you wanna jump on the waggon you do a 180 degress turn and find Fire as scum? If you honestly thought I was scum you would be voting me. Not fire.

[alexhans]

Why is the wording suspicious?

So, you're gonna excuse him for POV? Then no one is responsible for making clear, explained cases because they're entitled to a point of view?

Ok. Then why you never excused fire like that? Why don't you excuse me like that? Isn't it my POV?

NO. We should be obliged to present cases that explain what we mean. otherwise we're just being anti-town.

Imagine this situation. You're town. You have a gut feeling on someone. He is town too but of course you don't know it. You think he is scummy but don't know why so you just basically manufacture some things and call crap everything he does without developing... You'll never get a decent response because you never made a case... you just stated your point of view withouot presenting evidence to support it. You're never gonna be able to find out if he is town or not.

In the same lines of Kairyuu's post... I could make every single player in the game scummy if I wanted... even those who havent posted. You just gotta say some unsupported, opinionated stuff and look really convinced.

ADDED. just seen this:

Before you could post thoughts. You make it sound like you didn't even make a statement before he FoS'd you, while in actuallity you had a post about Fire being town and wanting to stop a smart mislynch. Then when Kairyuu mentioned it, you dismissed the reason of SC's FoS.

Exactly. He fosed me for saying "smart mislynch"! come on... and then when I accused him he suddenly starts seeing me as more and more scummy. He thinks the "everyone" thing called out by millar is a "very good" (without saying why of course) when he had previously said that Fire was only a good case and finally he votes for me. If you don't find that highly relevant then I don't know what else to say to you.

[alexhans]

behold, Long post

I was trying to meta you on other games you replaced into to see if you're naturally agressive or conveniently agressive but apparently it's just you. Anyway in Mini 716: El Puma you gave far better cases than here although you were quick to call half the people in the game scum.

I'm on page 6 and already afraid that there is gonna be a smart myslinch regarding Fire. I'm pretty positive that there is scum on that waggon. I'm not waiting till I finish my reading to tell you this because I'm afraid someone might hammer.

DONT DARE HAMMER!!!

If you do... I'll pursue you tomorrow till you're lynched...

Leave us replacements time to post and get answered.

If Fire is scum, then this is a damning post for sure. Also, threats of pressure are stupid, because if you threaten scum they could just kill you and be done with it. This sounds like you are looking for an excuse to go after anyone who ends the Day before you've set up your false connections.

@alexhans:

Me wanting to participate in the game before a lynch is scummy? Me wanting to prevent a lynch of a player I found town is scummy?

Right. Yeah. That's totally what I accused you of. Try actually addressing my points instead of trying to dodge them.

I don't know what to do with you, seriously... Look, you're saying that if fire is scum then me defending him is scummy but then say that I'm scummy independently? It's a mess of contradictions since you first posted... If fire seems townier than me... Why not vote me instead of fire? About my threat being stupid... I disagree. If someone hammers and then I'm dead you will have something to work with... Why did they kill me?
I'm looking for an excuse? NO! Im trying to get to play the game! If I let them know then pro-town players will wait for my input and scum will have to be careful.

Did he question me? NO! he just fosed me before I could even post my thoughts. I believe he saw it as a threat to the assembled Fire lynch.

This has already been addressed as bullshit by other people.

Wich doesn't mean anything because those people could be either scum or just wrong. And what's important here is if YOU think is BS and why.

You said SC and me were scum and that I OMGUS him??? How does that make sense?

As is

quite

obvious by the rest of my post, your actions have caused me to think that SC is likely town.

fair enough. And if you actually lynch me and realize Im town what will that indicate? And if I was lynched before fire? what would THAT indicate?

I don't follow. What does "When i get to SC" mean?

I was originally planning to make another post detailing my case on Strangercoug, but your actions have made me think that that can wait until D2, or possibly be foregone altogether.

While I don't mind that you can prefer to wait posting your case on SC (If you go by the same logic of Kor and Battou) I don't see why you think you should wipe all suspicion to the point that your case will be foregone altogether.

Millar has played well? Did you read the same game as me? He was full of inconsistencies since his first posts... broken fingers, tactics, Not voting scum seriousness, etc, etc. I disagree.

My turn to ask a question. Have you read any of millar's other games? He improved dramatically during this game. To the point where I am actually beginning to like his play. Besides, attacking millar for playing poorly=/=attacking him for being scummy.

Not any finished games I can't comment on. I haven't liked his playstyle at all but I have town read on him, there's a lot of reasons why in my first posts. I just think it's a pity that he has fallen behind in this game.

Did you miss the part where I say "unless they're scum"? No, I don't defend myself. I say that usually replacements are helpful for town because they're more objective.

Replacements only come in with an objective read if they read the game

before

replacing in. Your point says nothing.

I don't agree. Replacement is notified that he is allowed to join. Replacement starts reading totally free of the emotions of the moment. Therefore, a town replacement has IMO a slight advantage as to finding scum. If you say that I got emotional with SC's Fos you may be right in a way but it was definetly after I already suspected him and had a good read of half the game.

Elaborate. I don't understand.

SC said you were scared, and in the process of saying he was wrong, you said you

feared

something, confirming that SC was right while you tried to deny it.

Again I don't know what's your point.
- I think Fire is town after my read.
- I see Fire looks likely to be lynched
- I read the votecount in the last page.
- I think he is at L-1
- I panic that I might not even give input to the game and possibly be NKd
- I write what I write and then realize he is at L-2, I clarify.
- I get a fos from the most suspicious player IMO for saying smart mislynch.
- I POINT OUT THAT I WAS AFRAID (OF COURSE) THAT A TOWN PLAYER WAS GONNA BE LYNCHED BEFORE i COULD SAY ANYTHING.
- You pretend that if fire is scum then I am scum because me being afraid can only be possible if I'm scum and don't want my scumbuddy lynched.

Do you know what that FoS is for? For saying "smart mislynch". Serious dude...

Another point already covered by other people.

What did they say? If you say something against me I expect that you try to be clear. Not vaguely say that other people have answered this. I'm asking you.

No, this reads as "How come you want to hammer when I haven't even been able to post".

PFFFTTT!!

... If you dismiss my thoughts like that you're not being pro-town. In fact, you look pretty set. I'm wondering if it is because I repeatedly demanded that you state your case and you got pissed. If that's the case I would urge you to reconsider and try to investigate all players because you may just be running down the tunnel-vission road.

Have I? I wrote as soon as I could and in no way called anyone scum for sure as you did. I also stated a preview of my suspicions. You just called me scum and told me to deal with it because you didn't know what to say.

And guess what I said. OH YEAH, that I was going to post AS SOON AS I HAD MORE TIME. The expression of suspicion is irrelevent. That is just the way I do things.

Ok. I'm checking this in your meta. I just didn't like it one bit.

What are those crap reasons in your opinion? You thought SC was scum for one supposed slip. And I give a whole case and you call it crap?

You gave a "whole case" on EVERYONE VOTING FIRESTARTER. That is not a case. That is a shitstorm.

Wrong. I posted my notes (in a rush due to Battou's L-1) on why I thought Fire's vote was wrong and that it was probably scum driven. My main case was on SC.

You're saying nothing here. You're just tossing accusations dude. If you say something explain why... I could just go with...

What do you expect me to do? Go through all fo your reasoning on other people and cut it down? Hell no. I provided my view. Unless you can prove that your random flailing had a purpose other than what I proposed, then that view will not change.

No... But you're just calling my cases crap in general, and that I'm a hypocryte, and my posts are bullshit... I can't answer to that. I could also just say that you don't make sense and vote crappyly but I wouldn't be explaining anythhing and it wouldn't be enough. And what's more, I wouldn't get a useful answer from you (to determin your alignment).

....*sigh*. I just thought you didn't have a case on him to call him scum. You just said he was scum (and looked very positive) or one phrase he had said. That was not a good case. If I vote for SC is because I find him probably scummy. But if someone jumps on his waggon for no reason I will be highly suspicious.

I provided a reason for my vote on SC, and provided reasoning as to why that was scummy. I do not

care

if

you

think that my vote was well reasoned or not. You are not the Grand Arbiter of Votes.

YOU CALLED MY CASE CRAP! And you say Im not the Grand Arbiter of Votes? Well... neither are you. What gives YOU the right to call my case crap without even explaining?

It's better than before. But if you look at my answers you'll see that I'm not satisfied at all.

I don't care. It is an irrefutable fact that no one who is under suspicion actually agrees with the cases made against them.

Wrong. I can see where someone makes valid points. For example millar's point about me writing everyone instead of just 2 is valid. I usually generalize and say everyone too much but it was a good point anyway. Your points are not like that.

Is this necessary? Or are you covering your ass? So you don't think SC is scum anymore?

Thank you captain obvious. I only stated that I think SC is town like 4 times in that post. Also, I'm not covering my ass. There is no other conceivable lynch that will happen today, and any lynch>No Lynch.

You mean Fire? You said fire was town... anyway... You rather lynch a town player than no lynch, That is correct IMO... but do you really think there's gonna be a no lynch if you vote me instead of Fire when you think fire is probably town and I probably scum? That, I do not understand.

Do really think I, as scum, would try to defend a practically condemned partner? Wouldn't that be a giveaway?

Yes. I do. Neglecting the fact that this is WIFOM (I do not consider WIFOM to be bad either way), the fact that you must act incredulous instead of actually defending yourself does nothing to assuage my suspicions.

Following your thoughts I'd have to be really stupid because when they finally lynched Fire (As it looks like is gonna happen) I would be under obvious scrutiny... If I were scum I would rather buss him to shove of suspicion from myself (You'll probably say it's WIFOM, I'll say it's my logic). Am I not defending myself? Battou calls me for overreacting in my defense and you say I'm acting incredulous? I just want to make the best for the town out of any situation. How am I supposed to defend in your opinion? Insult you and say your case is crap or what?

And what if Fire flips town? Are you gonna accuse me of buddying? because that's what I'm predicting

You are scummy independantly of Firestarter. Therefore, you are scummy regardless of his flip. Hence why I would prefer to lynch you over him.

But, unfortunately you think that I'm scum therefore he is scum so you vote him? Why not vote me in that case? Just because his waggon is bigger?

Can you give us a similar list to the one I assembled about what you think about the players in the game? (Fire, SC, me, Battou, Kor, etc)

And where's everyone else? this post discussion with kayr is boring and demoralizing me... Where are the replacements?

[alexhans]

How? You know How me and Shanba bussed each other in 714...

I'm not afraid of speaking hypothetically of me being scum... Because Im not.

You, on the other hand, have retreated to a safe spot since you sensed that people were attacking you (Fire, Sajin, me). That's so much more scummy.

[alexhans]

How did I screw my case credibility over? I'm the only one actually taking the time to explain things... You're just saying: No valid, I'm right, you're digging your grave... That looks like you're really confortable with the game so far and plan to keep it that way... far away from you.

[alexhans]

SC: You have to remember that my case is not based on the FoS... the fos is an extra fact that signals your scummyness. Read the post where I voted you for a comprised read on your case.

[alexhans]

unfortunately, another long post for Kayriuu. It may be funny to follow the back and forth though so I encourage you to do it when you have the time and willingness to do so

I don't know what to do with you, seriously...

I have a brilliant idea. How about you admit you're scum and we can move on.

Has it ever occurred to you that you might be wrong?

Look, you're saying that if fire is scum then me defending him is scummy but then say that I'm scummy independently?

Strawman. Your defense of Firestarter is not even close to the only point in my case. You are

extremely

scummy regardless of Firestarter's flip.

lol. Look how you start adding adjectives to reinforce your case. Ad nauseam. Looks like you're even starting to believe it yourself... XD

It's a mess of contradictions since you first posted

Bullshit. I have given reasons for these so-called "contradictions."

Yeah right. Especially your thoughts on the triangle Fire-SC-Me and your reasons for voting him... Because he is the only possible lynch in your opinion, not because he is scum.

About my threat being stupid... I disagree. If someone hammers and then I'm dead you will have something to work with... Why did they kill me?

Let's analyze this little piece of WIFOM. If the person who hammers is scum, then they will have all of one person suspicious of them going into D2. That isn't all that worrying, and probably won't make you high on their kill priority list. However, if the hammerer is town, then the scum could frame said hammerer by killing you, and then bringing this up D2. Mob mentality could possibly kick in, and suddenly there's a wagon on the hammer vote because you died. Second scenerio is much more likely than first.

So I can't ask other people to not hammer because they will kill me, but that would be useless info... All night info is subject to WIFOM. It's up to the town to decide if there's scum pushing conveniently a waggon. That's what the whole game is about, Not just this scenario. And if a town player hammers before someone adds to the conversation is just anti-town. He should let replacements have their say.

Except that you know who you are replacing, and any comments about this person will skew your objectivity. Trust me, there has been at least one thread in Mafia Discussion on this topic. If you were following the game before you requested to replace then you would have this edge you talk about, but this is not the case. Can we drop this bit?

ACtually, I think I commented in that topic. So you can see my thoughts over there too. But we can drop it. By understanding my logic you can gain a better understanding of my thought processes and my actions that you may think are scummy and realize theyre not.

Not what I am saying. Strangercoug said that you looked afraid regarding the Fire lynch, and while you were saying that he was wrong (i.e. that you were not afraid) you said that you feared a Fire lynch, which is EXACTLY what you were trying to deny.

Glad you made it clearer. Wrong. He said...

Excuse me, but, uh... "smart mislynch"? The only way I'm making sense of this is if you know Firestarter to be town, which is impossible in a day start unless you're scum.

I said:

Oh...
and:

already

afraid

that there is gonna be a smart myslinch

The only way I'm making sense of this is if you know Firestarter to be town, which is impossible in a day start unless you're scum.

Notice the afraid? You're stretching. I never said he was town. I just had that fear. A quicklynch can be disastrous and after your vote on page 6 it sure seemed going that way.

So the one that brought up the "afraid" issue was me. Because I was afraid of a mislynch before I could even post my thoughts. SC says that the more important word is "smart".
Therefore this whole point of yours is null.

You repeated a previous point, which I had already addressed. I'm not gonna get into a "no, you're wrong" battle with you about that. Are you even looking at what I was addressing, or just arguing for the sake of arguing?

This exactly what you're doing. No matter what do I write you'll find a way to say no to it or make it look like Im wrong or scummy.

In fact, you look pretty set. I'm wondering if it is because I repeatedly demanded that you state your case and you got pissed.

Of course I'm "set." I'm always "set." Attitude is a big part of the mind-game that it Mafia, and acting totally convinced at all times is quite effective at outing jumpy scum.

Yeah... acting totally convinced is usually useful for scum to sell fake cases. Anyway, if you'rer too set and have too much pride you'll end up believing you're right no matter what and dismiss any future evidence you might find against your "truth".

You are currently shining strong and bright on my scumdar. until someone takes your place I will push and prod and pressure you until you break, like you are showing signs of doing right now with your "oh, you shouldn't only attack me. You should spread out your suspicion so that I don't get so worried about your attacks."

That's breaking under pressure? No, that's trying to throw some sense into you and resisting the urge to call you either stubborn or scum (because they way in wich you pursue your case follows that patterns). Because right now, if you're town, you're not helping anybody by only looking at me and perpetuing this whole nitpick discussion. I'll continue to answer because I'm the accussed and will post as much as it's necessary (trying to always be clear) to try to explain why a case against me might be flawed.

Ok. I'm checking this in your meta. I just didn't like it one bit.

It is evident by the beginning of your post that you already did, and found out I was telling the truth.

This is exactly what I was talking about earlier. You try to make me look bad with an obvious thing that I knew and told. I meta'd you a bit. I said what I thought BEFORE I wrote this. Despite the meta read I still don't like the way you posted so fast that people were scum without explaining (especially saying, too many things too count).

Well then your "main case" was hidden amongst attacks on everyone else on the Fire wagon. Are you trying to say that there are 6 scum in this game?

HELLO!!! Look at el puma! Yoour first post acccused like 6 people too. I investigate as much as possible, as I said to Korlash before, I don't necessarily find people scummy. I just want to clear a few things and understand them, and see if there's something that doesn't add up.

No... But you're just calling my cases crap in general, and that I'm a hypocryte, and my posts are bullshit... I can't answer to that.

Yes you can, and you have been. As I mentioned above. Mafia is a mind game. My attitude elicits reactions that are just as helpful as the reactions and responses to my words.

So you're entitled to being anti-town to get reactions? That looks like Empking's or Wall-e's playstyle. Not cool.

And what's more, I wouldn't get a useful answer from you (to determin your alignment).

All that means is that you haven't figured out how to use responses gathered that way to their fullest.

maybe so... We'll find if you're that good as you think you are at the endgame.

YOU CALLED MY CASE CRAP! And you say Im not the Grand Arbiter of Votes?

Yes. That is exactly what I said.

*sigh*, then you're clearly not making sense. What works for you can't work for me in your opinion. Definetly flawed thinking to find scum.

What gives YOU the right to call my case crap without even explaining?

I already told you, because I'm the Grand Arbiter of Votes. You're fun to screw around with.

Well... ... ... Really, I don't know what to say. If this is fun then it's very useful for winning the game... there are other, not so detrimental ways, to have fun.

Wrong. I can see where someone makes valid points. For example millar's point about me writing everyone instead of just 2 is valid. I usually generalize and say everyone too much but it was a good point anyway. Your points are not like that.

Considering that you have not defended well against

any

of the points I brought against you, I say you're caught scum who just realized the extent of the case against him.

I consider this is just BS. I havent defended well? That's your f/%&/, unsupported, grudgy, opinion. EXTENT OF THE CASE AGAINST ME??? Dude! Your "case" sucks! There, I said it. Try to re-read everything you've been posting with a clear mind. I just hoped to be able to talk some sense in to you but you were annoyed by my wanting you to post a case and when you finally did your pride won't let you realize any mistake you make.

Following your thoughts I'd have to be really stupid because when they finally lynched Fire (As it looks like is gonna happen) I would be under obvious scrutiny...

And you would also be able to pull this exact same card out in your defense. My point stands.

Now you're the one WIFOMing... Think about what's more likely. Me entering the game fully and being active and trying to do what I think is the right thing or me entering softly, tasting the air, seeing what I can push without having problems, perhaps jump in the main waggon. One is probably town, the other is definetly scummy. It doesn't make sense to be THAT active as scum. You could probably drop a scum tell.

If I were scum I would rather buss him to shove of suspicion from myself

I doubt that. Late bussing is noticed more often than not, and you would have this card to pull if he was lynched as scum and you defended him.

I would never expect to be clear of scrutiny if Fire is town. But IMO bussing or just letting him die would be so much easier. I don't care if you doubt it too. It's my opinion. And you don't know me.

Am I not defending myself?

Your "defense" is acting incredulous that we would suspect you of doing something like this. It is not true defense.

I've defended against all you said. I've responded to every thing you asked me that you pretended that made me look scummy. But now you're saying I was just acting incredulous and that's not a true defense? You answered every response I made and didnt see a defense there.
You're so lame. According to you... I don't have a defense. I don't have a case. Do I even exist? You suck dude. You just dismiss everything in the view that that will make you right... Guess what? It doesn't.

How am I supposed to defend in your opinion? Insult you and say your case is crap or what?

You could try that. Or you could try providing logical reasons for why you would freak out at a potential lynch, and then attack literally everyone on the wagon. (Hint: There is no good reason why someone would do that as town).

WTF man. I did provide reasons why I was afraid of a mislynch. It's even a reason in itself. I investigated all the people I could. And your hint is stupid because you're saying that there's no possible defense to your case in your own eyes...

But, unfortunately you think that I'm scum therefore he is scum so you vote him? Why not vote me in that case? Just because his waggon is bigger?

Yes, with the added condition that deadline is so close so voting you would be wasting my vote, whereas voting him is useful.

Wasting your vote? He will be lynched anyway... you don't make sense. There's no danger of a mislynch so your excuse of voting him is not enough, specially, when you've stated that you think him to be town.

this post discussion with kayr is boring and demoralizing me

So you've realized that you're scum and doomed to die?

Not really. I'm just dissapoited that someone can be such a prideful stubborn. I'm in no way afraid of you. I just think you have been attacking me with the lamest case I've ever responded to and you don't wanna hear any reasons. So, if your scum I don't have a problem with it but if you're town you're being silly for being so wrong and not wanting to see any reason that might indicate your mistakes.

@all: In all likelyhood this will be my last post before deadline. I

really

need to study for my AP Gov exam tomorrow.

Thank God. I was expecting another dismissing of every sentence I wrote...

example:
Alexhans: Good Morning
Kayriuu: No, your's is good morning here it is noon. SCUM!

[alexhans]

599: Regarding this post I must say that I'm a bit shocked but not totally. He seems the kind of player who can pull this kind of stunts. I still disagree with voting fire if he thinks another person is scum... If people started voting for SC it could actually be presented as an alternative and we would even have more info once either one of us flips. Who avoided wich waggon and why?

@alexhans: also, my name is Kairyuu, not Kayriuu

Ups... well... ask korlas

c

h if he finds it annoying...

You guys will have to forgive me and trust me on this:

Huge fight with my parents. HUGE. Won't have time to post before deadline.

Don't worry. I believe you. Try to make the better out of the situation and don't use mafia terms when you discuss with them... Also, don't try to lynch neither of them.

My thoughts have changed a bit (sorta), but I can't really make a good analysis.

Firestarter is the only reasonable lynch by deadline however.

mmm... this wasn't really necessary... You could've just not voted until you could post (day 1 or 2)...

This is L-1 and I still would like to hear from the replacements before someone hammers.

[alexhans]

I just wish SOMEONE would've dropped by and said SOMETHING.

[alexhans]

I would be really shocked if that happened... And saying so doesn't make me scummier or townier... So you're wasting your breath saying you're sure, SC... Doesn't change anything for good or for bad.

Also... You don't want to comment on Kairyuu's last read on you?

Somebody knows if the replacements are still on this planet? Lindis, inquisitive, etc.

[alexhans]

Look dude... based on his meta It doesn't seem totally weird that he does something like that. Besides, me dropping the case has to do with me being ABSOLUTELY TIRED of that back and forth I'm suspecting few will read.

You asign scum points to everyone in your judge like manner. Instead of making a case you attack people who are fighting... and if they stop fighting you attack them because of it. You're looking similar to SC in that you keep your distance but trash others when it's convenient regardless of what they might say. And, in this case, you try to make us both look bad.

and regarding this point

3) If someone pushed a crap case against me, and then say "I was just trying to get a reaction!" I wouldn't excuse them and drop the subject. I would pursue them further, put them on the defensive for their supposed gambit. Alexhans gets scum points for just dropping it.

I had a town feel on him, what's your read?. You give me scumpoints because I don't follow your playstyle? Wasn't that your case on Fire... that he was attacking millar's playing theories instead of millar himself?

Here is your thought process:
YOU wouldn't do that... I don't do what you would... I gain scum points...

Cool.

[alexhans]

I don't want YOU alive at this point. What's my case again?

[alexhans]

Good case, particularly the part where you say "..." You couldn't even think of something else? You are reminding me of Kairyuu's case on me... XD

[alexhans]

@621: Was stupid. Why would you call out on softclaiming if you thought he was scum? And if you thought he was a PR... Why the hell would you out him like that?
@624: Battou agrees wit Sajin, apparently.

He either has a night action, or is interested in Fire's flip. I wonder which...?

You can disagree with 1 all you want, its my opinion through experiences. 2, you clearly demonstrated. However, its not enough to vote you, my vote was for

informational purposes.

And you say this now?

@633: Now... This is just lame and bad play Sajin. I don't know if you're either naive or scummy.

I still have to answer yesterday's post by Battou.

@635 by SC: Note that when he sees that everyone's looking at Sajin he quickly goes for the vote. Doesn't matter who else still has to post. He is willing to get that bandwaggon going seeing that Sajin seems like a good target. I'm still extremely suspicious of SC and think that he is the one to be lynched.

Another thing I will do ASAP. Is analize Isaac's posts in ISO. (Not so much Fire's because he was super paranoid and attacked half the people in this game). Was there a Cop crumb somewhere? Why did they kill him?

[alexhans]

SCs meta from what I have gathered from previous games is to counter attack attackers when he is scum. He was not paying me any attention until I voted him with little to no case. It sure got a rise though. That was the goal take it or leave it.

sooo... Sc is with Kayriuu? I doubt it...

I still doubt kairyuu is a cop. He left way too obvious of a breadcrumb for that. I do not think he has any PR. Bad play on his part in any case.

lol. Way too obvious?? I don't even SEE it.

Made 644: You're comprising BADLY the cases that players had against fire. Research more. Start at the beginning where the actual cases take shape.

Also, I believe that now is as good a time as any for this.
Lindisfarne, you need to claim right now, I have reason to believe that you are scum.

I don't like one player asking another to claim like that but it's too late.

@Korlash: How about you give us that list today, now that you're alive?

Lindisfarne is lying through his teeth. I am, or at least was, Jimmy Kudo, Tracker. Lindisfarne is telling the truth about targetting Kairyuu last night, but unless we have two trackers and a cop, he's probably scum lying because he knew he was caught.

Is it too strange to have 2 trackers and a cop? unbalanced?

I know I said I was Jimmy Kudo and a Tracker. I'm not any more. Last night someone targetted me with the shrinking drug thing, and I was morphed into Conan Edagawa, Vig. I can use my super powered shoes to kill someone each night phase starting tonight. I was told of this change at the beginning of the day, and also given the results of my track of Lindisfarne.

mmm... this is weird. Why would someone target YOU with the drug? Why did you reveal you were a vig? What do we gain from it?

unvote; vote Lindisfarne

Man this is alot of day 1 claiming.

You sure switch votes fast dude... SC, Kair, LF.

Unvote: madeofphail and vote: Lindisfarne

. I'm not about to advocate the lynch of a vigilante.

Another fast switcher...mmmm...

Phail: How in the hell does targeting Kair make you think Lind was scum? Doc, RB, Jailkeep, watcher, vig, none of those entered your mind? He targes someone and there-fore is scum? This is a pretty big mishap on your part if you really are the "tracker."

I, too, would like to know this.

Vote: Lindisfarne

yeah accuse me of jumping on the wagon if you want, but seems the best option right now.

Piece of advice. Scum hunt for yourself. And give a reason. Not just that it "seems the best option". If I wasn't excusing you for your bad play (IMO) I would see this as scummy.
----------
Some older stuff

By my watch, Firestarter died two hours ago, and we've got a solid base behind it. I'm sure he'll flip scum.

Trying to appear town eh?? How does this affect your scumhunting confidence?
[qutoe="SC 614"]I buy the alexhans case, but I still want to go after Sajin tomorrow. I don't want either of them alive in the endgame at this point. [/quote]
He who easyly accuses of lining up lynches does too. funny. He knows I'm after him. He wants me out.
I ask what's my case again...

I've gone through this already. Misrep, WIFOM...

Riiiiight.

Not really, but I'm still giving you a general idea. I've already gone into detail.

Behold, SC's case on me

Read it. Yeah, I know. It SUCKS. Yeah, I know, he is afraid I targetted him and preemtivily voted me. Yeah, I know. He switches conveniently and leaves a lot of people as possible scum so he can move swiftly from one to anothe without commiting.

The way he tries to look both sides of a conversation look wrong is amazing... Millar,fire. Kair, Alexhans. Made,Lindis. always.

Seriously, study his ISO (at least from the moment I came into the game).

He squirms his way through and makes little points about semantics.
--------
Should I die at any point of this game. DONT forget about SC.

I'm waiting to see what comes out of LF vs Made but if I don't see real reasons to vote any of them I'm definetly going back to SC.

[alexhans]

@624: Battou agrees wit Sajin, apparently.

He either has a night action, or is interested in Fire's flip. I wonder which...?

Either not understanding what I typed or misrep. I'm thinking it's the former for now. I do not agree with Sajin at all on that subject.

No. Re-reading I saw what you meant even though I had to double take to finally get it. If it wasn't for the smiley... You maybe need to be a bit clearer in the future with that kind of stuff.

[alexhans]

Then you intentionally misrep'd? If you understood what I meant, then why did you say I agreed with Sajin?

^^ THIS is one thing I DONT like about you. All the time trying to make others look bad for silly things.
I misunderstood you the first time I read that post (I thought you were on Sajin's side).
I posted my first post of this day 2.
Today(IRL), I made a swift re-read of the last events.
I read your post again and almost had the same read but deduced, thanks to the smiley, that you were actually saying that Sajin's post was ridiculous or something like that.
Then I see your post telling me off for that and I responded.

Clear?

Something else... Did you notice I said "apparently"? That was because I found odd that you were agreeing with him.

[alexhans]

I really don't know what to think of you Battou. First you attacked my defense against Kair but then, when we were done, you called his case crap... Why not before?

Would you care to assemble a list like me and Kair did? All the players and what you think about them? Because I don't know what your thoughts are, really.

[alexhans]

I'm gonna hammer. Anyone want's to add anything do it now.

Ok. LF's claims now that he tracked kair AND supplied the injection?

NOT BUYING IT. He didn't say anything before.

Funny that he said "someone" targeted him and not you targeted him. It's fairly obvious he did not know you targeted him otherwise he should have said something.

Damn Right. 1 is lying. so if we mislynch we know who to lynch next.

@Kor: He did. He said kair didn't night acted on anyone.

remember who first voted Made when the issue started. Let's not forget bussing is a possibility.

[alexhans]

I've left people a decent time....

But this will be a loooong night until we find Inquisitor's replacement so I'm a bit reluctant to actually hammer....

of the people not voting:

Inquisitor Vulcan Skorn:

is not here.

Lindisfarne:

obv won't vote himself...
Korlash: What are you waiting for? Didn't you say earlier that you prefered to lynch and cut the discussion?
Sajin: What cases are you waiting for?

[alexhans]

I've been wanting to do this ASCII drawing for a long time...

=======[]

Hammertime!!!!

Vote Lindisfarne

Those who hesitate are lost, alexhans. IVS is an asshole for ditching without telling the mod AGAIN, so I suggested that phail just shoot him to save Gorrad the trouble of finding a replacement.

Just drop the hammer and stop procrastinating already.

eager to use your night action [/JOKE]

[alexhans]

I stick to what I said...

One of them is lying.

So if he doesn't flip scum (although I can't see why this would happen) we should go after Made tomorrow.

[alexhans]

If you acted upon 2 players... Why didn't you say so before made spoke about the injection? Why didn't you mention the said injection before?

[alexhans]

2 minutes late eh Lindis? Care to answer anyway?

[alexhans]

Alex- Why the hammer? Why not use today for discussion like you wanted us to do yesterday? Why was the Firewagon stalled so much and this one was over so quick?

Because we are in 1 of the 2 of them is lying so one MUST be scum. Now we have to lynch necessarily 1 of them and if he isn't scum then the other lied.
Also, Because I didn't know what else to add to the conversation and no one else was talking much. We need a replacement of a replacement

Alexhans SC and Kairyuu have all said they would talk more. I would like madeofphail to talk more.

I would too.

The fact is... That if someone is really against this lynch he should talk right now and convince me. Never mind the hammer. Prove me wrong.

[alexhans]

Yes... But the whole crux of the situation is that Lin lied Blatantly because he never mentioned the drug he used UNTIL made said it. It doesn't add up.

No one was talking much and I don't think they're both town as I did with millar and Fire. One is scum. I'm betting Lindis.

Fire was totally set up IMO but Lindis said something that is totally inconsistent with what made is saying so 1 is lying. Therefore one has to be scum.

[alexhans]

Oh... and no one is trying to refute Sajin's case in twilight so I'm taking that you all agree with the lynch....

I hammered because I'm convinced of this lynch and no one is trying to prove me wrong. You still could try and refute the lynch but you're not doing it....

If you didn't want him lynched yet... battou... You could've said so when I asked. You could've unvoted long ago.

[alexhans]

Kor:

Lindis night acted on 2 people and only said he had acted on 1! then he admits doing both.

And you could have waited and let him say something. You hammered 5 hours after you asked if anyone wanted to add something. You let TWO people post. How do you know Bat wasn't going to say something? You never gave him a chance...

He is not saying it now is he?

And A lot of people have been trying to prove you wrong. I mean take the fact you hammered before allowing Phail to respon to Lind's newest claim. That's a big piece of info missing. The fact that you are trying to se up future lynches based on inconsistencies you keep failing to specify. And now you just attacked bat for not speaking up in the five hour period you gave him to as if he is somehow at fault for that.

I don't know man. I'm set on this lynch and no one tried to contradict those who voted lindis because it's a good case. Made's certainty will definetly be scummy if lindis is not scum. And the fact that he is kinda absent.

Lindis simulposted his response with my hammer.

I'm gonna be clearer... I CAN stop the lynch before twilight ends (hence the long twilight)... Prove me wrong and I'll stop it.

[alexhans]

mmm... made posted in MS the 11th of may. Lindis made his injection claim on 10... Made didn't say anything about it. I honestly thought he had...

Why does made accuse so strongly Lindis for just tracking? Why did Lindis felt necessary to explain he had supplied the injection? Why is lindis not trying to help town once he knew he was dead? Town players would try to help town until they're officially dead.

I'm not going to contest any votes on me, since I am the best lynch, information-wise, for town today. I'll answer any questions anyone might have for me. It might give you guys some insight tomorrow.

then poof! dissapeared.

I'm gonna full claim governor now (so there's no doubt about it)... Maybe it was a bad idea but this game is definetly stalling with few players posting so we need to DO something.

Should I say my name?

Nothing about pictures in my role.

[alexhans]

Konosuke Jii... I helped the original Kaitou Kid... and I'm the helper to the title's heir. I've got good connections.

And tell me exactly how one helps the town once you know you are dead? Unless he knew we had a govenenor what exactly did you xpect him to do?

post. Accuse. Say something. Answer questions. Try.

Since May 13, 2009 5:52 pm he has been not posting here when he could try to say whatever last words he can to try and guide town into what he thinks is correct.

[alexhans]

Because they're contradicting each other in the people that they tracked!!!

MAde tracks Lindis and says that he went for Kair all right. Later dissapears and doesn't confirm Lindis tracking him. Wich would inmediatly make him think of the injection he received and make Lindis town rather than scum.

Lindis says he tracked kair and adds nothing else. He afterwards says that he tracked MAde too. But made never mentioned Lindis tracking 2 people.

One of them is lying.

That's an inconsistency.

[alexhans]

That is what, 24 hours? I posted a list of my thoughts on who I consider town and who feels scummy. I offered to answer any questions. Direct a question to me and I will answer.

That's great. But you made that post when you thought you were alive.

Sorry. I misused the word TRACK multiple times. I mean you night acted.

You didn't say you night acted twice. And it WAS relevant because he had trcked you. Made didn't mention you night acting twice. You agreed to your lynch for info. Wich is always a scummy move to save yourself IMO.

I'm having my second thoughts about made but it's either you or him so I'm not overly concerned. Finally people are talking.

[alexhans]

remember... I can STILL Stop this lynch if someone thinks it is better.

I don't think that nolynch is a better right now.

I don't know when but Gorrad may pop up at any time so if you have something to say do it now...

[alexhans]

Man... I called it in my first posts... SC was scum...

I may have come off too strong but I was right about fire and about SC.

The fact that SC tried to go either way at lylo was scummy.

lol. SC expected Battou to vote Sajin...

When you guys where discussing numbers I wanted to raise from the dead and eat SC's brains!!! So much BS!

I was pretty sure that SC was evil but also somewhat suspected Battou...

If I was alive... I wouldn't have lynched millar... although his play sucked and I sent him a pm scolding him.

KUDOS to madeofphail!! He was the most relevant player. Wiped out both scum.

Woah! You're now

Kaito Kuroba, Jack of All Trades

. You have three one-shot abilities: Your Card Gun can disarm someone, Roleblocking them. Your uncanny ability to knock people out can force them to commute for a night. Finally, by taking over another person's identity, you can only die that night if they're targetted for a night kill (the killer will then kill their real target as well). You can use one of these per night!

This was SO cruel!!! I got all those powers and couldn't use them....

One of the things I'll never forget was my eternal back and forth with Kairyuu...

more later.

[alexhans]

Aaaaand CASE CLOSED!

Good game to you all.

[alexhans]

Guess I was part of the winning team, despite clear frustration

As I said. Self-hammering as town will only hurt YOUR team. Playing against your team isn't a nice thing to do.

But we can all learn from mistakes. Oh, I was right about you too. I said SC and you were town...

*Alexhans keeps gloating*

[alexhans]

Madeofphail's tracking used on Lindisfarne
Isacc's cop used on Lindisfarne

WOW. Good job agents!

Lind's RB used on Kairyuu

Why kairyuu?

IVS's scumkill used on Isacc

Good job scum.

Stranger's SK kill used on Battousai
Millar's doc used on Battousai

Well. Millar helped a lot here.

Battousai's watching used on Stranger

Battou... Why?
-------------

Madeofphail sees that Lind visited Kairyuu before shrinking

How did he assume Lindis was scum with this??
---------

Madeofphail's Vig used on IVS
IVS's scumkill used on madeofphail

crossfire!

Stranger's SK kill used on alexhans

ARGH!!! I HAD you!!

drug used on alexhans

why??? Out of hammered spite? or to help me?

Alex shrinks and dies

XD

Stranger's SK kill used on Kairyuu

Notice a pattern here? Only sajin was left of the people who had stated suspicion of SC...

Battousai's watching used on Korlash

GOOD CALL.

Stranger's SK kill used on Korlash

Unfortunate call

As for my claim... I did it to try and wifom scum and save madeofphail from death or somewhat confirm myself. I knew that Lindis was very probably scum but was trying to lure out his partner. Wich I couldn't because he was not posting... douh!
SC acted scummy EVERYDAY... his vote on made and later on lindis read evil(scum/sk) all over.

It's surprising how both scum bailed out... One didn't even confirm and the other posted very little... sucks...

IMO, what killed the replacement scum was that IVS didn't post and that Lindis posted some pro-town looking posts but then dissapeared and he seemed to live his lynching options really open.

[alexhans]

Why did you track me, made, and why did isacc investigate me? I normally don't give off very scummy vibes.

IMO, what killed the replacement scum was that IVS didn't post and that Lindis posted some pro-town looking posts but then dissapeared and he seemed to live his lynching options really open.

Also, if it weren't for the fact tha you claimed ot have given made the drug then I wouldn't have necessarily voted you. But once you did... One of you 2 had to be lying.