Mini 774: Case Closed Mafia (One Truth Prevails!)

[Kairyuu]

unvote

Starting my reread now.

It's nice to see so many familiar faces.

[Kairyuu]

millar is town, and waaay better than he was when he first got here a couple months ago.

He's scumhunting, and making some sense. My read is mostly gut though, and I'm not digging through that again for town tells, mostly because that would be stupid either way.

Firestarter is town too (though I wish I wasn't so sure of that, since he's a nuisance).

This one is more solid. The resignation was way too sincere to be faked, and the position he was in when it happened was too dangerous to try that as scum.

Also, his 240 looks alot like a partial role pm quote, and I'm confused as to why he wasn't modkilled.

Strangercoug is scum.

If you die and flip town, there will still be stuff that I can get on millar13 for.

That is the exact type of scumslip that no one caught me on way back when in Facedown and Thirsty.

Plus there's the whole issue with being so eager to please, especially regarding Isacc.

vote: Strangercoug

alexhans is scum too. Too many reasons to count, but I'm too lazy to dig them up right now. Maybe Saturday (prom is tommorrow, so you get nothing then).

[Kairyuu]

Also, Hiya LF, IVS, Isacc, and Strangercoug!

Familiar faces are always good.

[Kairyuu]

@alexhans: I'm too lazy to update my wiki. The semantics thing is barely valid any more. Also, as I said, prom is tonight, and I'll be out until probably 3 or 4 am with that, so you get to deal with me not doing a ful read until then.

Also, I do generally back things I say up with evidence. Lots of it. Pages and pages sometimes. However, this game was a pain in the ass to read in the hour I had to catch up and post before going to bed last night, so I skimmed instead. I'll probably just go with it for a bit, and then do a full reread once I have some more time on my hands in a few days.

@Strangercoug: I'll respond fully to your points when I have some more time. I'm pretty much just doing quick checking in posts in all of my games and then leaving again.

[Kairyuu]

@alexhans:

Oh! but it's there and you just voted based on a semantics thing... So.... you vote but don't full read? Specially since you won't be able to post soon? How's that pro-town?

Did I say that it was totally invalid? No. I didn't. I said barely valid, meaning that I rarely use it anymore. Whoohoo.

Also, as to the second bit, learn to read. I said that I had less than an hour to read the whole thread and post. You try pulling off a full read of this game in that amount of time.

just Checking your posts? You voted for him... that's not a check up. That's pretty serious.

Again, learn to read. In THAT POST. The one you QUOTED, I was checking in on the thread because I didn't have much time. Do not misrep me. I voted him in a completely different post.

unvote

vote: alexhans

Misrep does not suit you, scum.

[Kairyuu]

@alexhans:

Also, I do generally back things I say up with evidence. Lots of it. Pages and pages sometimes. However, this game was a pain in the ass to read in the hour I had to catch up and post before going to bed last night, so I skimmed instead. I'll probably just go with it for a bit, and then do a full reread once I have some more time on my hands in a few days.

That adresses all of your points. When I have more than a few minutes at a time to spend here then you get your reread. Until then you get to deal with me doing things as I go.

[Kairyuu]

Hell! Im gonna make this clear:
@everyone: Do you think Fire is scum or not?

I am fairly sure hes town.I think hes town at about 80-20 odds. I am willing to go through with a lynch due to the reasons Korlash and Bat have posted. I still think SC is scum.

^^This^^

[Kairyuu]

Once I actually get around to doing a full read of the thread, which may not be until next weekend at the latest. I'm shooting for Wednesday or Thursday though.

[Kairyuu]

At the moment, I don't remember what jumped out at me in my skim through. However, the misrep didn't look too good either. I'm calling the rest gut until I reread.

Sorry, I just don't remember. I'm in too many games right now.

[Kairyuu]

Get over yourself. Some people don't have the time to dig through twenty pages of walls 'o text to make a case while simultaneously juggling 4 large theme games. I'm not gonna just say "oh, this guy told me to do something. I should go do that now."

I don't care what you think of my behavior. I have already said that when I have more time I will do a full reread. Until then, deal with this. You aren't winning any town points with all of this "you ain't got nothing on me" attitude either.

[Kairyuu]

Exactly. And then people would say, "he's playing like IS/Fritzler/BM/Baby Jesus, let's see where this goes."

Also, I have plenty to attack you for. I just have a shitty memory, so it's all vague and jumbled in my head with my other games right now. When I do my reread you will get probably a ~5-7 page (in word) post detailing my read of the game.

But until then, you get to

Deal.
With.
It.

[Kairyuu]

Honestly, if you guys don't like the fact that I don't have the time to read and comment on this game for awhile, then call for my replacement or lynch me. Failing those, just bear with me for a few more days. All of the stupid final projects for Seniors are due this week. I'm doing the best I can with extremely scarce amounts of time.

I'll be V/LA completely until Thursday night by the way.

[Kairyuu]

Checking in briefly.

@alexhans: I have not unvoted, and don't plan to unless someone else strikes me as scummier than you when I finally get around to reading the full thread.

@all: Given that the deadline is Friday, this game will be my top priority for rereading and catching up. It's really bothering me that I'm having so much trouble with this game.

[Kairyuu]

Damnit. I knew that would happen sooner or later. The hydra game will kill us all.

[Kairyuu]

It's a hydra account for Seraphim and me for Adel's Deep South game. I had just posted there and forgot to log out. I figured that would be apparent by my following post.

[Kairyuu]

I am finally free! I'm back and reading. I'm not sure if I can get a post out today, but when I do it will be full of nice shiny arguments and cases on all of you scummy people. Cheers!

[Kairyuu]

Alright alexhans, here's your case.

I'm on page 6 and already afraid that there is gonna be a smart myslinch regarding Fire. I'm pretty positive that there is scum on that waggon. I'm not waiting till I finish my reading to tell you this because I'm afraid someone might hammer.

DONT DARE HAMMER!!!

If you do... I'll pursue you tomorrow till you're lynched...

Leave us replacements time to post and get answered.

If Fire is scum, then this is a damning post for sure. Also, threats of pressure are stupid, because if you threaten scum they could just kill you and be done with it. This sounds like you are looking for an excuse to go after anyone who ends the Day before you've set up your false connections.

Yeah... right. You are scared of me... If you must know... I'm really suspicious of you SC so start imagining what you're going to say when I come down on you.

This is totally OMGUS. SC questions you, so you say you're suspicious of him? Pfftt.

Your whole pushing both cases without commiting and trying to follow the trend of Fire without argumenting is gonna be hard to explain.

This may be a valid point. When I get to SC, if this holds then this may count in your favor.

You assumed that miller would be best to have around? (with all his pro town actions? [/sarcasm])

millar has played well. I have a pretty decent town read on him. So yeah, SC is right here. millar>Firestarter.

You know replacements are scum's worst enemy right? (unless they're scum, of course)

This is bullshit. Are you seriously trying to defend yourself with the fact that you're a replacement? You are at your own skill level regardless of whether you start a game or replace in.

So... Fosing me before I can question you is not gonna work. I already got you in my sight.

Overdefensive/OMGUS much?

Notice the afraid? You're stretching. I never said he was town.

I just had that fear

.

Thank you for confirming SC's point in the process of denying it.

A quicklynch can be disastrous and after your vote on page 6 it sure seemed going that way. Fosing me for the first thing I write? Is it because you know I've seen you as scum and think I may tunnelvission you or something?

You really seem to have your hackles up here. There is no reason to get so antsy over a simple FOS.

Yeah. I replaced you as scum therefore I know a bit of your thoughts processes. And maybe that would lead you to think I'm gonna suspect you. Anyway, I don't think I'm gonna pull meta on you. I should study more cases were you're town first.

What is the point of this statement? He suspected you for valid reasons and now you're claiming he's afraid of you? Pffft.

Wow... Usually what scum says when they don't know how to push a quicklynch when not every player is playing. I haven't posted my notes in 24 hs and you are already calling for a hammer? Aren't you a little bit interested in what I might have to say?

This reads as "OMG don't lynch my scumbuddy before I get a chance to shift the wagon!"

Patience. Content IS coming. There's no need to rush the vote if you're town. Scum are the only ones interested in keeping content talk to a minimum... Be pro-town.

Please note how much of a complete hypocrite you are. You were doing the EXACT SAME THING that I've been doing, and you have the nerve to call me out for it? PFFFTTT!!

And then you make, what, is that a case? On who? You pretty much rail on everyone voting Fire, but only accuse SC of being scummy, and for crap reasons. I'm liking Fire+alexhans scum and SC town more and more here.

Don't worry about me being anti town

What. The. Hell.

Now we get to your "long post," which is allll over the place. There is no cohesive argument in there. It's pretty much just you trying to fling as much crap on as many people as you can. Possibly trying to see what sticks so you can press further.

A few more posts chock full of crap slinging and buddying to batt and we get to the point where I got here. From there on I've said what I needed to say on you.

Also, note that you seem to have a problem with my attacking SC, even though YOU were all over him for most of the game. Pot kettle much?

Case enough for you?

@all: Based on observations from this post, I think that alexhans implicates Firestarter as scum, and since deadline lynch is almost assuredly going to be Fire, simply due to deadline, I will

unvote

vote: Firestarter

alexhans scum for tomorrow kthxbai

[Kairyuu]

@SC:

Minor FoS: Kairyuu since that last sentence reeks a little of lining up lynches.

Deadline is in all of 2 days. I would VERY much prefer an alexhans lynch for D1, but I do not see that as even close to feasible, so I am declaring my intent to go after him tomorrow.

@alexhans:

Me wanting to participate in the game before a lynch is scummy? Me wanting to prevent a lynch of a player I found town is scummy?

Right. Yeah. That's totally what I accused you of. Try actually addressing my points instead of trying to dodge them.

Did he question me? NO! he just fosed me before I could even post my thoughts. I believe he saw it as a threat to the assembled Fire lynch.

This has already been addressed as bullshit by other people.

You said SC and me were scum and that I OMGUS him??? How does that make sense?

As is

quite

obvious by the rest of my post, your actions have caused me to think that SC is likely town.

I don't follow. What does "When i get to SC" mean?

I was originally planning to make another post detailing my case on Strangercoug, but your actions have made me think that that can wait until D2, or possibly be foregone altogether.

Millar has played well? Did you read the same game as me? He was full of inconsistencies since his first posts... broken fingers, tactics, Not voting scum seriousness, etc, etc. I disagree.

My turn to ask a question. Have you read any of millar's other games? He improved dramatically during this game. To the point where I am actually beginning to like his play. Besides, attacking millar for playing poorly=/=attacking him for being scummy.

Did you miss the part where I say "unless they're scum"? No, I don't defend myself. I say that usually replacements are helpful for town because they're more objective.

Replacements only come in with an objective read if they read the game

before

replacing in. Your point says nothing.

Elaborate. I don't understand.

SC said you were scared, and in the process of saying he was wrong, you said you

feared

something, confirming that SC was right while you tried to deny it.

Do you know what that FoS is for? For saying "smart mislynch". Serious dude...

Another point already covered by other people.

No, this reads as "How come you want to hammer when I haven't even been able to post".

PFFFTTT!!

Have I? I wrote as soon as I could and in no way called anyone scum for sure as you did. I also stated a preview of my suspicions. You just called me scum and told me to deal with it because you didn't know what to say.

And guess what I said. OH YEAH, that I was going to post AS SOON AS I HAD MORE TIME. The expression of suspicion is irrelevent. That is just the way I do things.

What are those crap reasons in your opinion? You thought SC was scum for one supposed slip. And I give a whole case and you call it crap?

You gave a "whole case" on EVERYONE VOTING FIRESTARTER. That is not a case. That is a shitstorm.

You're saying nothing here. You're just tossing accusations dude. If you say something explain why... I could just go with...

What do you expect me to do? Go through all fo your reasoning on other people and cut it down? Hell no. I provided my view. Unless you can prove that your random flailing had a purpose other than what I proposed, then that view will not change.

....*sigh*. I just thought you didn't have a case on him to call him scum. You just said he was scum (and looked very positive) or one phrase he had said. That was not a good case. If I vote for SC is because I find him probably scummy. But if someone jumps on his waggon for no reason I will be highly suspicious.

I provided a reason for my vote on SC, and provided reasoning as to why that was scummy. I do not

care

if

you

think that my vote was well reasoned or not. You are not the Grand Arbiter of Votes.

It's better than before. But if you look at my answers you'll see that I'm not satisfied at all.

I don't care. It is an irrefutable fact that no one who is under suspicion actually agrees with the cases made against them.

Is this necessary? Or are you covering your ass? So you don't think SC is scum anymore?

Thank you captain obvious. I only stated that I think SC is town like 4 times in that post. Also, I'm not covering my ass. There is no other conceivable lynch that will happen today, and any lynch>No Lynch.

Do really think I, as scum, would try to defend a practically condemned partner? Wouldn't that be a giveaway?

Yes. I do. Neglecting the fact that this is WIFOM (I do not consider WIFOM to be bad either way), the fact that you must act incredulous instead of actually defending yourself does nothing to assuage my suspicions.

And what if Fire flips town? Are you gonna accuse me of buddying? because that's what I'm predicting

You are scummy independantly of Firestarter. Therefore, you are scummy regardless of his flip. Hence why I would prefer to lynch you over him.

Regardless of any info we may get? good. Really pro town.

If there is other convincing information, then no shit I will look at other people. Not doing that would be absolutely idiotic.

[Kairyuu]

@alexhans:

I was trying to meta you on other games you replaced into to see if you're naturally agressive or conveniently agressive but apparently it's just you.

I did tell you that. Several times actually.

Anyway in Mini 716: El Puma you gave far better cases than here although you were quick to call half the people in the game scum.

You only think its a bad case because it's against you.

I don't know what to do with you, seriously...

I have a brilliant idea. How about you admit you're scum and we can move on.

Look, you're saying that if fire is scum then me defending him is scummy but then say that I'm scummy independently?

Strawman. Your defense of Firestarter is not even close to the only point in my case. You are extremely scummy regardless of Firestarter's flip.

It's a mess of contradictions since you first posted

Bullshit. I have given reasons for these so-called "contradictions."

If fire seems townier than me... Why not vote me instead of fire?

Because DEADLINE IS TOMORROW! There is no chance that I can shift the wagon to you by tomorrow, as if evidenced by the fact that no one besides me has said they want to be voting you over Fire right now. Therefore, since any lynch>a No Lynch, you get my vote.

About my threat being stupid... I disagree. If someone hammers and then I'm dead you will have something to work with... Why did they kill me?

Let's analyze this little piece of WIFOM. If the person who hammers is scum, then they will have all of one person suspicious of them going into D2. That isn't all that worrying, and probably won't make you high on their kill priority list. However, if the hammerer is town, then the scum could frame said hammerer by killing you, and then bringing this up D2. Mob mentality could possibly kick in, and suddenly there's a wagon on the hammer vote because you died. Second scenerio is much more likely than first.

Wich doesn't mean anything because those people could be either scum or just wrong. And what's important here is if YOU think is BS and why.

If I say that I agree with something that has already been mentioned, then that means I AGREE with them, and have nothing more to add.

And if you actually lynch me and realize Im town what will that indicate?

That I need to go back and reevaluate SC.

And if I was lynched before fire? what would THAT indicate?

Same as above except it would also push my read of Fire back to where it was when I started.

While I don't mind that you can prefer to wait posting your case on SC (If you go by the same logic of Kor and Battou) I don't see why you think you should wipe all suspicion to the point that your case will be foregone altogether.

I don't see myself actually ignoring the case altogether, don't worry about that. However, better cases always take precedence with me.

Not any finished games I can't comment on. I haven't liked his playstyle at all but I have town read on him, there's a lot of reasons why in my first posts. I just think it's a pity that he has fallen behind in this game.

Go take a look at Mini Normal: Super F11 (dunno number), Newbie 750, and Open 124: Bugs Bunny. He's gotten much better since those games.

I don't agree. Replacement is notified that he is allowed to join. Replacement starts reading totally free of the emotions of the moment. Therefore, a town replacement has IMO a slight advantage as to finding scum. If you say that I got emotional with SC's Fos you may be right in a way but it was definetly after I already suspected him and had a good read of half the game.

Except that you know who you are replacing, and any comments about this person will skew your objectivity. Trust me, there has been at least one thread in Mafia Discussion on this topic. If you were following the game before you requested to replace then you would have this edge you talk about, but this is not the case. Can we drop this bit?

You pretend that if fire is scum then I am scum because me being afraid can only be possible if I'm scum and don't want my scumbuddy lynched.

Not what I am saying. Strangercoug said that you looked afraid regarding the Fire lynch, and while you were saying that he was wrong (i.e. that you were not afraid) you said that you feared a Fire lynch, which is EXACTLY what you were trying to deny.

What did they say? If you say something against me I expect that you try to be clear. Not vaguely say that other people have answered this. I'm asking you.

I don't care what you expect of me. I will play the way I want to, and I will not change it because you don't like it. Your point has been addressed already by other people. Go look up what they said because I'm not going to rehash a point uselessly.

If you dismiss my thoughts like that you're not being pro-town.

You repeated a previous point, which I had already addressed. I'm not gonna get into a "no,

you're

wrong" battle with you about that. Are you even looking at what I was addressing, or just arguing for the sake of arguing?

In fact, you look pretty set. I'm wondering if it is because I repeatedly demanded that you state your case and you got pissed.

Of course I'm "set." I'm always "set." Attitude is a big part of the mind-game that it Mafia, and acting totally convinced at all times is quite effective at outing jumpy scum.

As to the second bit, HOW MANY TIMES DO I NEED TO ADDRESS THIS POINT? I was pissed because you wouldn't just shut your mouth about my not posting my case immediately upon request and wait until I had more time like I said I needed. Out of game reasons are NOT to be questioned. Doing so is BAD PLAY, because it assumes that I am lying about something that HAS NO BEARING ON MY ALIGNMENT. I will not address this point again. Deal with it.

If that's the case I would urge you to reconsider and try to investigate all players because you may just be running down the tunnel-vission road.

You are currently shining strong and bright on my scumdar. until someone takes your place I will push and prod and pressure you until you break, like you are showing signs of doing right now with your "oh, you shouldn't only attack me. You should spread out your suspicion so that I don't get so worried about your attacks."

Ok. I'm checking this in your meta. I just didn't like it one bit.

It is evident by the beginning of your post that you already did, and found out I was telling the truth.

Wrong. I posted my notes (in a rush due to Battou's L-1) on why I thought Fire's vote was wrong and that it was probably scum driven. My main case was on SC.

Well then your "main case" was hidden amongst attacks on everyone else on the Fire wagon. Are you trying to say that there are 6 scum in this game? If not, then the attacks were excessive and only served to muddy the waters and possibly provide you-scum with a springboard later in the game to pull one of them back up if one of the people you attacked gets wagoned.

No... But you're just calling my cases crap in general, and that I'm a hypocryte, and my posts are bullshit... I can't answer to that.

Yes you can, and you have been. As I mentioned above. Mafia is a mind game. My attitude elicits reactions that are just as helpful as the reactions and responses to my words.

I could also just say that you don't make sense and vote crappyly but I wouldn't be explaining anythhing and it wouldn't be enough.

You would also be wrong.

And what's more, I wouldn't get a useful answer from you (to determin your alignment).

All that means is that you haven't figured out how to use responses gathered that way to their fullest.

YOU CALLED MY CASE CRAP! And you say Im not the Grand Arbiter of Votes?

Yes. That is exactly what I said.

Well... neither are you.

Yes I am.

What gives YOU the right to call my case crap without even explaining?

I already told you, because I'm the Grand Arbiter of Votes. You're fun to screw around with.

Wrong. I can see where someone makes valid points. For example millar's point about me writing everyone instead of just 2 is valid. I usually generalize and say everyone too much but it was a good point anyway. Your points are not like that.

Considering that you have not defended well against

any

of the points I brought against you, I say you're caught scum who just realized the extent of the case against him.

You mean Fire?

Yup.

You said fire was town... anyway... You rather lynch a town player than no lynch

He is more likely town than scum in my eyes, but there is always the chance that I am wrong, and No Lynching would not give us even that possibility.

but do you really think there's gonna be a no lynch if you vote me instead of Fire when you think fire is probably town and I probably scum?

Every vote counts in getting a lynch. If people start to unvote, then it is possible that my vote could be the only one pushing a lynch through. This is my mentality, and is why I am always voting at the end of a Day, usually for the person being lynched.

Following your thoughts I'd have to be really stupid because when they finally lynched Fire (As it looks like is gonna happen) I would be under obvious scrutiny...

And you would also be able to pull this exact same card out in your defense. My point stands.

If I were scum I would rather buss him to shove of suspicion from myself

I doubt that. Late bussing is noticed more often than not, and you would have this card to pull if he was lynched as scum and you defended him.

Am I not defending myself?

Your "defense" is acting incredulous that we would suspect you of doing something like this. It is not true defense.

How am I supposed to defend in your opinion? Insult you and say your case is crap or what?

You could try that. Or you could try providing logical reasons for why you would freak out at a potential lynch, and then attack literally everyone on the wagon. (Hint: There is no good reason why someone would do that as town).

But, unfortunately you think that I'm scum therefore he is scum so you vote him? Why not vote me in that case? Just because his waggon is bigger?

Yes, with the added condition that deadline is so close so voting you would be wasting my vote, whereas voting him is useful.

Can you give us a similar list to the one I assembled about what you think about the players in the game? (Fire, SC, me, Battou, Kor, etc)

Sure, why not.

Battosai: Solid town read on him. Logical and valid points.

Korlash: Lotsa wall posts. Neutral towards him, leaning town.

madeofphail: No contribution, no read.

Lindisfarne: No read. He's logical and pro-town acting as either alignment, so I could go either way on him.

Firestarter: Town read, but marred by interactions with alexhans-scum. Today's lynch.

IVS: Hasn't done shit since he replaced in. No read.

millar13: Solid town read based on meta.

Sajin: Neutral, but leaning town.

Strangercoug: Holding judgement on him until later based on interactions with alexhans.

alexhans: Scum scum scum scum scum. See my last 3 posts (including this one) for reasons.

Kairyuu: So obvtown it hurts.

And where's everyone else?

QFT

this post discussion with kayr is boring and demoralizing me

So you've realized that you're scum and doomed to die?

Where are the replacements?

Another QFT

@all: In all likelyhood this will be my last post before deadline. I

really

need to study for my AP Gov exam tomorrow.

[Kairyuu]

-insert increasingly massive post as to why your points don't make sense and you're scummy as hell-

Mmk. After all of that friendly banter, I have come to a conclusion.

alexhans is town. My case was meh. Could be good, could be bad. I was mainly attempting to get his ire up. If he was scum, he would have been able to find several excuses to vote me for those posts, but he didn't. The obvious reason for that is because he genuinly doesn't find me scummy, just overconfident, and therefore anti-town.

My current read of alexhans is that, while his arguments are not that great, and he delves into WIFOM more than strictly necessary, he has pro-town motivations, and actually seems to be scumhunting.

What does that mean for the rest of my reads? Nothing for anyone except for Firestarter and Strangercoug. I will stand by my read of Firestarter. He is very likely to be town. However, my point about him being the only feasible lynch for today still stands. There is no way to shift the wagon in the remaining 24 hours of D1, so I'm not even gonna try.

And Strangercoug. Strangercoug walked straight down the path I would expect him to as scum. He latched right onto my case and pushed at alexhans just as I was. This is an exemplification of the point I brought up earlier of him being far too appeasing to vocal players in this game. Strangercoug is scum.

[Kairyuu]

@alexhans: also, my name is Kairyuu, not Kayriuu

[Kairyuu]

Alrighty then. Checking in one final time before deadline. Fire lynch is go, as crappy as it is, but hell, we may get lucky, and even if we don't, this theme lends itself strongly to investigative roles, so I think we may be all good anyway.

[Kairyuu]

Weird.

Kairyuu says something along the lines of "town would react to a crap case against them with a sense of saying the person is confused town and not scum pushing a crap case." Then when Alexhans hears this, he completely drops the issue with Kairyuu and says something along the lines of "Kairyuu is the kind of person who would try that." And then he drops the subject all together.

That is not what I said at all. I determined that, based on alexhans' reactions, I believe him to be town. It has nothing to do with the validity of either case, and everything to do with his reactions to the statements I made that provided nothing in the line of a case, but everything in the line of pressure. That he dropped the issue says nothing about him, because he did not call me scummy at any point. He was on the defensive, not on a counterattack.

1) scum points for Kairyuu. Trying to act scummy to get reactions is scum defence for making a mistake.

I was not acting scummy to get reactions. Hell, I wasn't acting scummy at all. I was providing hyperaggressive pressure in order to determine his alignment. This is what I do.

2) I would say if I thought someone was pushing a crap case against me, I wouldn't be calling them confused town, I would be calling them suspicious, and then vote them depending on how long they push it. Actually, I think I would call them confused town, but only if I knew they were town and I wanted them to ease off of the attacks on me. But this is all WIFOM, so null points to Alexhans.

This is totally speculation, and there is absolutely no point in bringing it up if your decision is that it's null anyway.

3) If someone pushed a crap case against me, and then say "I was just trying to get a reaction!" I wouldn't excuse them and drop the subject. I would pursue them further, put them on the defensive for their supposed gambit. Alexhans gets scum points for just dropping it.

Note that he never once called me scummy while I was attacking him. If he would have changed his stance as soon as I dropped the case,

then

that would have looked like opportunism to me.

Also, why bring this up

after

I have dropped the case. If you thought my case was crap, then why did you FoS alexhans instead of going after me?

[Kairyuu]

*taps fingers impatiently*

Wasn't Night supposed to hit 4 hours ago?

[Kairyuu]

I have softclaimed nothing. We've been waiting on the deadline for quite some time now, and I'm getting bored. I would like very much to see Fire's flip, as well as get to D2 quickly.

[Kairyuu]

By the way, I am declaring intent to vote Sajin at the beginning of D2. The more I think about it, the more I realize that there could be no pro-town reason for pointing out a potential power role softclaim right before Night.

[Kairyuu]

@Sajin: You sir, are quite foolish. I told you yesterday that I was BORED waiting for Night to come on because we had been waiting for Fire to flip for quite some time. Also, assuming I'm scum because you think I may have a Night action is just stupid. Let me demonstrate something for you:

Player A: I have determined that Player B is either scum or a power role. We should lynch him just in case.

Player B: That makes no sense.

Player C: I agree with Player B. Let's lynch Player D instead.

Player D is lynched and flips town.
Player B is NKed and flips game breaking power role.

The second you say that I am probably either a power role or scum, you place a massive target on my head, regardless of whether or not you are right.

Also, you say that I'm scummy because I'm agressive? That is total shit. Take a look at my meta, or, hell, read what alexhans discovered about it while we were arguing. I AM AGRESSIVE! My playstyle ranges from moderately agressive to borderline psychotic. It is a null tell at worst, and a minor town tell at best based on my playstyle.

tl;dr: You have no case, and do not worry me one bit.

[Kairyuu]

In my great wisdom, since my untimely death in another game has freed up a large chunk of my time, I have determined that we should lynch scum here.

vote: Inquisitor Vulcan Skorn

FoS: madeofphail, Lindisfarne

The lurkers need to come out of the woodwork. I am highly confident that there is at least one scum among that list of lurkers.

[Kairyuu]

1-I find people who overly agresive counterattack scummy.
2- You demonstrated this.

You can disagree with 1 all you want, its my opinion through experiences. 2, you clearly demonstrated.

However, its not enough to vote you, my vote was for informational purposes.

Today, since I now doubt he is a cop,

vote kairyuu

You were far to anxious yesterday. Therefore I doubt your any sort of protective role, that leaves investigation and scum. With a cop dead, I am fairly certain your the latter.

First off: where the hell did you get the idea to doubt that kairyuu was a cop? The scum could have just as easily left him alive so that this would be peoples first conclusion, and cause the mislynch of a power role. I've seen it hapen before. His being alive is a nulltell IMO. Whats not to say there is more than one cop?

second off, to pay attention to the underlined section....that confuses me, care to explain?

. . . I'm not a cop. I never claimed to be. Hell, I never claimed to have a Night Action. Sajin is just drawing conclusions out of thin air because he has no real suspects. Meta (unbackable, because the game is ongoing) says he's town though.

Care to explain why you replaced in and then proceeded to lurk just as bad as your predecessor?

[Kairyuu]

SCs meta from what I have gathered from previous games is to counter attack attackers when he is scum. He was not paying me any attention until I voted him with little to no case. It sure got a rise though. That was the goal take it or leave it.

I still doubt kairyuu is a cop. He left way too obvious of a breadcrumb for that. I do not think he has any PR. Bad play on his part in any case.

Do you have any comments on anything from day 1, madeofphail?

How many times do I have to tell you that I did not breadcrumb anything before it will penetrate your skull? I told you quite clearly why I was getting bored waiting for Night, and others have also shot down your craplogic. How many people need to disagree with you before you listen to reason?

[Kairyuu]

Hmm. Interesting. Perhaps madeofphail isn't as phail as his title implies. I'm down with it for now.

unvote

vote: Lindisfarne

@LF: Claim.

[Kairyuu]

It's Day 2 actually Sajin, and two claims (one fake) isn't really all that much methinks, especially since we just caught lying scum in LF. Things are looking up.

[Kairyuu]

@phail: You voted when you asked for a claim, so that second vote was irrelevent.

[Kairyuu]

Still happy with my vote on LF. I will neither confirm nor deny of I have a Night action, since I think that you're scum trying to signal to your buddies whether or not I'm a power role. The tracker counterclaim plus the change-up in your claim when phail said he got targetted screams caught scum to me.

[Kairyuu]

LF already claimed that he tracked me to no one. I would rather not say whether he is right or not, because then his scumbuddies will know if I have a power role. I'd rather not die either way.

Of course, of a majority of people call for me to claim I will. Just take note that I'd rather not.

[Kairyuu]

@Korlash: Post 653 on page 27. His claim post.

[Kairyuu]

Damnit. This is the third time he's done this.

@phail: Just friggen shoot IVS tonight. It's almost D3 and there is NO READ that ANYONE has been able to get on him because he has posted I believe only once, and his predecessor was the same. A good shot methinks, and saves the trouble of finding yet another replacement.

@whoever isn't voting LF: Hammer please. LF is obvscum and needs to die. Hesitation is one of the major failings of the current site meta in my opinion.

[Kairyuu]

Those who hesitate are lost, alexhans. IVS is an asshole for ditching without telling the mod AGAIN, so I suggested that phail just shoot him to save Gorrad the trouble of finding a replacement.

Just drop the hammer and stop procrastinating already.

[Kairyuu]

@Sajin: So we somehow have 5 scum in a 12 player game? Majora's Mask showed that you aren't too bad with role mechanics, but your logic still needs quite a bit of work.

If you couln't tell, this game is less than my top priority. I was convinced to join by LF, IVS, and Isacc, and now IVS has flaked and the other two are dead. I can't say I'm all that attatched to this game.

[Kairyuu]

I do not think you should stop the lynch alexhans. You've essentially just softclaimed Governer, which I really think you shouldn't have done, but whatever. When a governer stops a lynch it is a forced No Lynch, which is almost never good. If LF is scum, then you gave him a free Night. If he's town, likely all you do is put off the lynch until D3, which means we are gonna spend D3 dwelling on the exact same issues, and either way it gives the scum a free kill.

If you couldn't tell, I don't exactly like the Governor role due to its implications. I believe that using it at any point would be a bad idea.

[Kairyuu]

@LF: I am neither confirming nor denying that I made an action last Night simply because in a non-lylo situation, a power role counterclaim from scum leads to a 1-for-1 tradeoff at best, and simply losing a scum at worst. Therefore, assuming phail to be scum, he must be completely illogical and irrational to gambit the way he did outside of lylo. The only logical conclusion is that you are scum. Hence, confirming or denying your statement will either a) let you off the hook if I confirm, and I will not let a scum off the hook, or b) provide your buddy/buddies with power role information that the town does not want them to know. Both situations negatively impact the town, and positively impact the scum.

Logic says I keep my trap shut.

[Kairyuu]

@LF:

if you confirming is a pip towards my claim being honest, why hide it? What is it that makes you so deadset that I am scum?

Situation A:
I refuse to confirm that I didn't target anyone and you are town telling the truth.

Result: You are lynched, and flip town We move into Night, and phail probably dies.

Conclusion: Basic mislynch scenerio caused by duplicate roles in a Mini. Detrimental, but not horrible.

Situation B:
I confirm that I didn't target anyone and you are town telling the truth.

Result: No lynch. You or phail are NKed, and the typical mob mentality takes over, making the survivor the D3 lynch.

Conclusion: Same result as A, but gives the scum an extra NK. Potentially game-ending.

Situation C:
I confirm that I didn't target anyone and you are scum lying.

Result: No lynch. phail is NKed, and mob mentality takes over to lynch you D3.

Conclusion: Wastes an extra Day phase to get rid of you, giving you a free Night to make final plans with your buddy/buddies. Potentially dangerous.

Situation D:
I refuse to confirm that I didn't target anyone and you are scum lying.

Result: You die, flip scum. phail is confirmed town and draws a doc protect. We enter D3 with a plethora of information and good positioning.

Conclusion: Best case scenerio.

Situation E:
I refuse to refute your statement even though I targetted someone (obviously this means you're lying).

Result: Same as situation D

Conclusion: Same as D.

Situation F:
I refute your claim by saying that I targetted someone.

Result: You are lynched and flip scum. phail and I are both confirmed town, but only one can draw a doc protect unless we have multiple docs (unlikely). If your buddy/buddies shoot correctly, the town is down a power role that there was no reason to give up.

Conclusion: Sub-optimal.

Analysis:
Situation A, D, and E involve me refusing to confirm or deny. Given that A is the lesser of the detriments of A and B, and D and E are the better of the two positives C and D and E and F, keeping my mouth shut gains us the most if you are scum, and loses us the least if you are town.

Final conclusion:
Given the two scenerios where you are assumed town being what they are, the fact that you are trying to draw a No Lynch to keep you alive for awhile longer is detrimental to the town in the long run. At this point the logical course of action as town would be to sit tight, express any last suspicions, and die willingly.

Also, your logic dictates either made or I is lying, and does NOT take into the account that maybe both of us are telling the truth (which I find to be likely, since I DO agree with you that I don't think made is making his information up).

In a game of this size I find it highly unlikely that we would get duplicate roles, or at least, that we would get duplicate roles with the same alignment, especially since we already know based on a cop flip, a governor claim, and 2 tracker claims that there is a pretty high power role density even disregarding your claim.

You're being narrow minded.

No. I'm being purely logical at the moment. I do act very narrow minded at times, but this is not one of them.

[Kairyuu]

Mmk. So. Seems my 1+ scum out of LF, IVS, and phail theory was right. 2/3 of them were scum, and the third was the one to nail both of the other two. That is poetic justice.

Now, since it is quite obvious that the scum killed phail, and that phail killed LF2/IVS, we are left with a third, unexplained kill. This could be a problem.

Methinks that at this point massclaim would be a smart move.

Any objections?

And before I forget,

vote: Strangercoug

. Methinks that the consistant attacks from alexhans, who was pretty much obvtown, especially after the Governor claim, were beginning to worry him.

[Kairyuu]

I'm cool with anything. Popcorn is preferable though, with SC to start.

[Kairyuu]

@Strangercoug: There is no in-thread evidence that he worried you. However, the fact that he died as soon as his attention was focused elsewhere for a while is telling in my opinion.

[Kairyuu]

Massclaims generally start with the top suspect in my experience. Considering that all of my suspects are dead except for StrangerCoug, I suggested him. I don't feel the pressing urge to claim first because I am not suspected by the town.

[Kairyuu]

The town's top suspect, not yours.

I suggested my choice. If you dislike it, then propose your own.

And it's kinda a stretch to say the town doesn't suspect you when the suggested first claim count is one for SC and one for you. Technically you're tied for most suspicious.

Who has suspected me? Battousai suggested me because that's "how it works," not because he found me suspicious.

[Kairyuu]

@Korlash:

No, you tried to counter someone else's suggestion and subtly tried to replace that suggestion with your own.

That's complete crap. Show me where I did that. I repeat, I proposed SC as my suggestion, and then disagreed with Battousai's selection method. I have no problem going first, but I would rather have SC be the one, since I think him likely scum.

So? Now you're arguing semantics. I'm arguing numbers. You and Sc are tied for the first to claim, you said the first to claim is the most suspicious so thusly you are tied for most suspicious. What part of this are you failing to understand. I'd spell it out but spelling numbers takes too damn long.

Do you even have any idea what you're arguing? I'm not arguing semantics, as much as I would like to. We have two different situations here.

1. I claimed that the first to claim should be the most suspicious, and I proposed Strangercoug for that purpose.

2. Battousai proposed that the first to claim should be the one who proposed it in the first place, and therefore proposed me.

These two reasons for proposing a first claimant are different. Arguing that differentiating between them is semantics is just ridiculous. If Battousai had proposed me for the same reason as I proposed StrangerCoug, then yes, you would be right. As this is not the case, your point is logically invalid.

@Sajin:

Well I was about to post how I think kairyuu is absolutely clear, but he could easily be an SK now that I think about it. He was roleblocked night 1 as evidenced by madeofphail. 1 kill night 1. There were 3 kills night 2, vig, mafia and other. And I think its quite clear he has some sort of night action.

He is not in mafia group though. Could still be scum.

vote Kairyuu

Name claim now. Possibly role after.

Huh? So because the scum roleblocker targetted me N1 I must be the SK? What have you been smoking and where can I get some?

I'm Shiho Miyano, and I'm vanilla. Get it? I. Have. No. Night. Action. Can you comprehend that, or do I have to repeat in a few dozen more times before you get the picture?

@all: There, I've claimed. Since we have a mojority looking for popcorn, that means that SC gets to claim next.

[Kairyuu]

@Battousai:

Kairyuu: You don't have to be the SK, but it is one way to interpret last night's kill and the lack of one N1. Also, Shiho Miyano sounds like a safeclaim for Akemi Miyano (which would be a decent pick for SK).

Umm. Can you explain the kill flavor "Magicked" as applied to either of those characters? I did a bit of reading on my role name, and it appears that I was the one to create the drug that go used on Conan, but then tried to commit suicide by using the drug herself, which merely shrunk her. She then helped with the creation of the antidote after escaping from the Black Organization. The other person I know nothing of, except for the quick bit that it's my role's sister, and that she's dead that I just found on google.

Either way, I'm not seeing any references to magic, and I'm completely stumped as to who would have that kill flavor. It's been several years since I last saw/read any of Case Closed, and I never got very far in the series to begin with.

[Kairyuu]

I still say full massclaim, popcorn style, with Strangercoug going next, is the way to go.

[Kairyuu]

@Batt:

Umm, if you feel there are no characters that have a reference ot magic, why would I need explain the flavor magicked to ANY role? Personally, I see magic as a drug since the magicians in the games are just that, magicians. Magician magic can't kill you and leave no apparent cause, where as real magic and drugs, do. If you used a fakeclaim and your real claim is Akemi, then it is possible that you used a drug on alexhans that killed him

1. That is not what I said. I said I was not seeing any references to magic in my actual role or the role you claim I'm faking to hide.

2. Explain to me how Akemi would have the Magicked flavor, and not the Drugged, or something similar, flavor if she was gonna use drugs to kill. Then, explain why she would use drugs to kill. I do not know this character, and google is giving me no reason to believe that either my role or Akemi would be killers, as both of them turned against the Black Organization, with the only difference being that Akemi was killed by Gin and my role escaped in the form of a child.

[Kairyuu]

Elaborate Sajin. Do you think that you have some explanation as to why Shiho or Akemi would have the Magicked kill flavor? Or is it that you see some other explanation? Your vagueness is unhelpful.

[Kairyuu]

@Batt:

1. You said those exact words, I just took words out of the middle. I then referenced the two roles (the one you claim and the possible safeclaim of Akemi).

The words in the middle provided the context. I was making the point that I didn't see how either of the characters you think I might be would use the kill flavor that killed alexhans.

We can also bring reasoning into it. Why would I kill alexhans when a) he has never once called me scummy, and b) I have declared in-thread that I find him pro-town?

2. As I already said, I don't think any character can do magic, and thus drugged would be the best bet.

You missed the second bit. Why would either of the characters use drugs to kill, especially Akemi, who I couldn't even find any real info on other than that she died?

3. What roles would use magic then? As you said, you found none. Therefore there has to be 1 or there is none and drugged is a good substitute.

I actually found some info on wikipedia, and there are two character's under the label Magic Kaito Characters. Since the flavor from the N2 kills show alexhans as being Kaito, the only other one left would be Saguro Hakuba. I figured that this would be a dead end too, since on the front page it said that Isacc was Richard Moore/Saguro Hakuba, but then when I looked at the kill flavor, I noticed that it was a picture of Hakuba that was found on Isacc's body. Also, the mod's flavor after that was interesting:

The oddest thing, though, was the picture of Saguro Hakuba he had on him. What he could want with Hakuba, though, one can only speculate...

This implies, at least to me, that Saguro Hakuba is probably in the game, and, if so, is probably scum, likely SK.

4. You are getting pretty defensive here about nothing. I was just making talk while waiting for the millar to post. Notice how I never FoS'd you or voted you. All I basically said was that Sajin's theory is possible and since you roleclaimed I gave an opinion on what COULD be not IS or MOST LIKELY or whatever it is that is making you so defensive.

How am I getting defensive? Your reasoning doesn't make much sense to me, so I'm attempting to either understand it or debunk it.

@Korlash:

You try to couter his suggestion by saying "massclaims generally start with blah blah blah" infering a preceding line of what is a "common norm" and "acceptable" way to do this. You then took what you said "It starts with the most suspected" and followed up with "all my top suspects are dead except for SC" which subtely puts your suggestion into your counter of Bat's

I wasn't subtle about it at all. I was directly stating "I think SC should start." Of course, it's pretty moot now that both he and I have fullclaimed, but still. There was no manipulation involved. I did it right out in the open.

All in all a pretty worthless point that I only brought up for lack of other things to say but I must say I like how far you've taken it!

I'm bored. I argue when I'm bored. It makes things entertaining.

Also calling my stuff crap isn't going to make it go away. Unlike most people, I've proven my crap works a good portion of the time... ok sometimes... every now and then... >.>

Again, another semi stupid point and one I can honestly see why you would be confused about it. I don't see any real info coming from the continual arguing over it so I'm willing to concede you the victory and move on to the massclaim which is far more interesting then you right now anyways.

Cool.

You could just as easily be mafia. However Sk fit's better as the kill flavor sounded like mafia N1... at least I think. I should read it again.

If I'm Mafia, I'm the biggest teamkilling fucktard in the world, because I supported the LF lynch the whole time, to the point of helping to convince alexhans not to use his governor ability, and then it was my idea for phail to take a potshot at IVS. So unless I'm gutsy enough to take down both of my teammates in one Day/Night cycle (hint: I'm not. I play very conservatively as scum) then I doubt I'm Mafia.

SK I can sorta see, but I still can't see how I would have that kill flavor.

I still think the phantom thief is the best chance or SK due to him being the most Sk like in the anime AND that the term "magical" could apply to him. Technically the term "magical" could apply to the drug as well but the mod made it clear the magic kill was not from the mafia and so I find it hard to believe the SK would control the drug.

The only problem with that theory is that alexhans was Kaito, and alexhans was the one killed by the Magicked flavor.

@all: Nameclaims tell us nothing. The point of a massclaim is to confirm enough townies for an easy win or to notice a role combo that wins us the game. Simple nameclaims are not gonna do that. Please do as SC and I have and fullclaim. I'm trying to break this game (bringing my total up to 4)

[Kairyuu]

@millar: No. Your idea is flawed. If we were to do something like that, we would need to have investigatives claim, and then leave it at that, since a hidden doc is better than an outed one, because the outed one, though they will keep the investigative role safe, will also die, whereas keeping them hidden will make the scum take a potshot. I still prefer full massclaim, because it improves our odds for a guarenteed win, depending on whether or not we can break the setup.

Your continued refusal to claim is bothering me. Only you and Batt haven't nameclaimed. Get to it.

FoS: millar13

[Kairyuu]

@Batt:

You also said you didn't see any character that would use magic, thus expecting me to tell you how ANY character would use magic is trying to defend yourself from the kill because of magic (something every character could do).

And then I did more research, and found this shiny little thing labeled "Magic Kaito Characters."

A) WIFOM B) If your scum, it doesn't matter if you called him the freaking pope.

WIFOM is not an explanation for anything. Don't be lazy. Analyze this "WIFOM." Which of the scenerios is more likely? Calling it WIFOM and discarding it is a cop out.

Also, scum killing their allies close to lylo is extremely stupid. Why would I kill someone I could almost definitely count on for support in lylo, and leave the wildcards alive?

I bet with a billion yen you could get some good drugs, that and her sister was a chemist. Could have stole it like the money. Any of those possible? I think so.

Did she escape with the money? If I recall, she got shot before she could get away. Also, drugs =/= magic. Is that really so hard to understand? Are you trying to say that Gorrad would put Magicked as a kill flavor instead of Drugged if the victim was drugged?

If so, then how come there was no magic on the body, you left out that Issac died by being shot, like madeofphail.

The kill flavor is irrelevent to my point. Having the picture on him implies that he, a cop, was investigating the person in the picture. My conclusion from that is that Saguro Hakuba is in the game and scum.

You started getting defensive when I said your role could be a safeclaim. There is nothing to debunk there or nothing to defend against, yet you found a way to turn it up a notch.

At this point I'm just arguing for the sake of arguing. Your theories don't make sense, and I am therefore now trying to convince you that you are wrong.

I like nameclaims first, then roleclaims. If scum goes first, it increases the chance to be outted (usually scum would pick a minor role in the theme to avoid a counter).

Nameclaims are now done. Roleclaim time. Gogogogogogo.

@millar:

Don't you see though, there are six people left. If two of them are scum, are we two more townies die tonight. Scum effectively wins. If you can think up anything that is more useful at tracking scum tell me, unless you are scum and therefore don't like the idea. Outting power roles, is vital during this stage in the game.

I'm not at all against outing roles. In fact, I want to out all of them. However, a forced massclaim has the increased likelyhood of outing scum in the process. Keep in mind, massclaim was my idea.

@Korlash:

There's always Toichi Kuroba but I suppose that's a little bit of a stretch for Case Closed mafia... hmmm...

Alright a quick search of Magic and Case closed together brings up a lot more stuff then I thought it would... Most of them revolving around the phantom thief kid. I suppose it is possible he was the cause of his own death...

That would actually make sense. It would also imply that there is some sort of redirector. I wouldn't be surprised if alexhans JoaT powers included a vig. However, that would leave us with a living scum.

Am I the only one seeing a little bit of contradicting statements here... You say nameclaims tell us nothing but then tell Miller and Bat to get to nameclaiming...

No contradiction. Nameclaims are worthless, but people seem to be dead set on them. Now that we have that tedious little thing done, we can get to the fullclaims.

I still think theres a chance to find the scum through that and not waste whatlittle secrecy we have on a massclaim to help Kair's record books. Besides, i'd love to brak it first on less and never let him live it down.

I will consider that a challenge.

@all: Flavor: I'm done with the Black Organization, and I want revenge on them. All I've got is my vote, but I'm gonna put it to good use.

[Kairyuu]

@Batt:

At the time when this first became posted, I believe you didn't say anything about Magic Kaito Characters (which are magicians who use tricks. I'm pretty sure none of them uses real 'magic').

Well duh. Why do you thing I said "

and then

I went and did more research."

Killing someone who hasn't called you scummy and using it as an excuse later.

People alive who have called me scummy:
Sajin

People alive who have expressed doubts about me:
you
Korlash

People alive who have said nothing either way:
millar
SC

People alive who have expressed that they feel I am town
No one (previously only alexhans)

I had one supporter. Killing him hurts my chances if I'm scum. I still say that the likelyhood is that as scum I wouldn't kill him.

Also, Alexhans was a powerrole, scum might have wanted all powerroles dead.

He was a pro-scum power role. Governors, statistically speaking, hurt the town's chances if they use their power. If I was scum, keeping him alive could have given me an extra Day if I got lynched and he was still alive.

A dead Alexhans could also be attributed to framing SC, as you already pointed out when you voted him in the very first post of the day.

This is actually a valid point, but the cons of killing him far outweigh this one pro, since it isn't lylo yet.

Do not know. Possible there was traces of 'real' magic in the drug, and I'm saying magician =/= 'real' magic (which can kill people). I haven't read up on Gorrand so anything is possible. Gorrad said the body was in perfect health, which could be attributed to drugs.

I still say this makes no sense at all.

Since when is arguing just to argue a good thing?

Since that's the way I play. I like to argue, and then analyze people's reactions to the argument I am embroiled in. Sometimes the argument is just a stupid one like this. Either way, it helps me build reads.

[Kairyuu]

@millar: What we need from you ASAP is:

1. Your targets for N1 and N2.
2. Your reasons for choosing those targets.
3. The flavor from your role PM.

Put these in your next post please.

[Kairyuu]

Lying scum.

unvote

vote: millar13

When Sajin asked you why phail died you said you didn't protect phail because you were too busy protecting Sajin.

Caught in a lie my friend. I love it when scum make it this easy.

[Kairyuu]

Rockets? I

LOVE

rockets!

[Kairyuu]

I thought I protected Sajin...wasn't a lie was a mistake

Mini Theme (###): Carnival Mafia
Playername: Empking
Mistake: Claiming to have mixed up role results to explain a contradiciton
Penalty: Lynched
Result: Flipped scum. Town wins.

confirm vote: millar13

[Kairyuu]

@Korlash:

This isn't that game and Miller isn't Empking. It takes more then one example to prove positive a point. Some people are actually idiots and do stupid things. That would be like me using a game in which a palyer used a game to call someone scum and ended up being sum themselves to call you scum. What good is someone else's meta when pushing a vote on Miller? Seriously? Can I SC's meta to lynch Bat? See now I want to try that... *looks at Bat* Hmmm... You play an awful lot differently then SC did when he was town...

Well, I figure when millar flips scum (when, not if) I'll have a second reference to point to.

@all: If millar is not scum, I will be EXTREMELY surprised.

[Kairyuu]

Explain yourself. Now.

[Kairyuu]

How about explaining why you are claiming that there will be two kills instead of one tonight. If you are town then there is no reason you should keep this info back from us.

[Kairyuu]

Oh. Ok. Well, I don't believe you, but that's nice to know.

@all: Time for another list.

Kairyuu: Town for obvious reasons (calling 2 scum D2 being one of them)

millar13: Either he made a huuuge mistake coupled with really poor judgement, or he's scum. I think the latter is far more likely.

Sajin: His logic has been extremely iffy. I will need to go back and look at him if the game progresses past D3.

Korlash: Town

Battousai: Town

StrangerCoug: Another one to look at if we go to a D4.

[Kairyuu]

Funnily how i protect Korlash and Battousai two players who you also consider as town.

So I consider them town. So what? I also considered phail town, to the point of being CONFIRMED, and I had a much stronger town read on alexhans too. You didn't protect either of them, and now they're dead, even though they were by far the most likely targets. Therefore, I think you are lying about your role and are actually scum. It's simple logic.

You sure you want to put the town in a bad position tomorrow

On the contrary, I want to put the town in a good position tomorrow, which is why you need to die.

[Kairyuu]

If you are scum, self-hammering is a big go ahead.

If town, don't do it.

[Kairyuu]

See sig, though I doubt it will actually make a difference, since methinks that the game will end when the lynch hits.

[Kairyuu]

kwjfhwekjfhwkel

I didn't wanna die.

[Kairyuu]

Nice one Batt. Glad you guys pulled it out in the end.

@SC: I assume you killed me because I was right about you, correct?