Mini 817: Chosen (Game Over!)

[BloodCovenent]

/confirmed

[BloodCovenent]

Day 1 begins

Dun dun dun.

Vote: Papa Zito

for not RVS voting on his first post!

[BloodCovenent]

Vote BloodCovenant

for posting in my game, that you was not even in. Only scum would lurk around places they are not supposed to be.

what are you talking about?
Is this... that one time, like... three months ago?

FoS

for holding a grudge?

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/joke fos.

[BloodCovenent]

well.... (sorry for the huge quotes )

Lotta content just for page 2...

I have to say, this is probably the final RVS vote, However, i feel as if that vote was optional. he didn't need to wagon on Zito, he chose to. i tend to believe that he knew there were already two votes on him, and felt obligated to put a third, and put Zito at L-2. possibly, to bring us out of the RVS, but, maybe not. either way, i don't think that's a scum-tell.

This made me giggle a lot

Random votes do nothing, as well are the usual thing to do. Usual things don't raise questions, and get the game going. Why do something orthodox and keep the game in a useless stage when you can do something unorthodox and start the conversation more quickly, and (possibly) have a better chance at analyzing players?

Like we're doing now? Random votes are very useful in the beginning of the game. And, in more final stages of the game, the lynch analysis, bandwagon analysis, vote hoping, inconsistent voting, and opportunistic voting are all factors taken in, when trying to analyze for a lynch in lylo, or even at day 3.

As a town member, you are hindering yourself by not using your vote. The vote is the only power you have as a townie besides the post. By not using your vote, you are not being a productive townie.

I'm not sure if eager is the right word. I'm not eager for you to vote, i just find it strange that a member of the town would not want to use one of there two powers.

you are afraid of voting off a townie?
How can you be afraid of a mislynch this early in the game? there is no way that 5 players are going to accidentally quicklynch someone without making sure they're town.

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Zito.

Vote: Papa Zito

It's your turn my friend!

My turn?

That's two votes on me. Hmm.

Insinuation without accusation or questioning? If you think MM is scummy say so.

Vote: Papa Zito

Observation.

There's a school of thought that the third voter on a bandwagon is likely scum. What do you think?

1. I do not understand what MM means by Zito's turn...
2. I agree with Ash.
3. Saying that it was an observation does not justify the fact that you publicly noted that he was voting you. I personally think that MM's vote was an RVS vote, and i don't want to say that it was an educated vote, but he knew what he was doing, how he technically started the first wagon.
4. I don't think that it's always the third vote on the wagon. It's usually opportunistic votes that are scummy. However the third/fourth vote on a wagon (with five to lynch) are generally the players that lurk, and post little contend and vote on the wagon. In larger games, it's harder to tell. But yes, i remotely agree with you Zito.
5. But, if you're going to say that it's just an observation, could you go in depth a little more?

I don't see anything scummy on Zito. I think the wagon is just a bad idea.

unvote

.

I'm at L-2 on the second page. Thoughts?

we gotta get there some time.

Random votes do nothing, as well are the usual thing to do. Usual things don't raise questions, and get the game going. Why do something orthodox and keep the game in a useless stage when you can do something unorthodox and start the conversation more quickly, and (possibly) have a better chance at analyzing players?

I don't feel like turning this into a theory disagreement. My concern is that you're now abiding by a strict policy, but haven't before. Answer my last question: Why the change from your town meta?

I'm pretty sure Archon was scum in 801. He replaced out though.

I haven't played in a few months...?

poor answer.

[BloodCovenent]

I forgot to mention....

Vote: nadroj15

Give us some content please!

nadroj15 has yet to pick up his prod (sent yesterday) so I've asked Zorblag to replace him. I'm just waiting on Zorblag to pick up the replacement request.

[BloodCovenent]

dude, you almost gave me a heart attack. i thought my post was gone... but you just deleted all of those spams, nice! Thanks

[BloodCovenent]

EBWOP:

unvote

then........................ :/

Vote: Zorblag

[BloodCovenent]

I don't see anything scummy on Zito. I think the wagon is just a bad idea. unvote.

noted back-off.

considering my vote on him was in the RVS, and was the very first vote of the game, yes, I did back off. Why would i push a lynch on someone that i don't have a case on, or anyone for that matter.

[BloodCovenent]

Could everyone please give a list the other players in the game that you've played with or modded in the past using experience with nadroj15 rather than myself?

another with BloodCovenent at the moment. .

do you mean mafia 95?

I'm in/been in a few games with ash. I think this is my third. This, Kubrick, and basterd Mod Lovefest I think. Oh, and Archon, he replaced out of Kubrick. Other than that, this is my first time playing with most of you.

[BloodCovenent]

got home late from a baseball game, will post tomorrow, possibly

[BloodCovenent]

No! I'm here! Just getting more data for my post! Even though it's short already :X

[BloodCovenent]

Unvote

for the moment.

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Looking over the wagons again... The Papa Zito wagon was just dumb, RVS votes pretty much. And the Archon wagon was all RVS votes until Nuwen jumped on it. she said this...

Upon a cursory meta search, I noticed that you cast random votes in Mini 801 and Mini 785 as town. What induced the sudden change of policy?

But in Mini 801, Archon was not town. She then goes on to ask why Archon doesn't follow with his town meta. But he's not. he was scum in one game, and town in another. This case of Nuwen is remotely flawed. Granted, Archon's responses were poor, I don't feel as if it truly justifies a vote by Nuwen.

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I don't see anything scummy on Zito. I think the wagon is just a bad idea. unvote.

noted back-off.

considering my vote on him was in the RVS, and was the very first vote of the game, yes, I did back off. Why would i push a lynch on someone that i don't have a case on, or anyone for that matter.

Hey, I did this in a game I was in previously as scum, with much of the same answer. Scum tell? of course not. but I'm making a note.

So... are you using your meta, of your games, against me? If you go and read any of my games, it does not matter what role I have, I will not push a lynch unless I have a case against them. And not stupid cases, like the "sky is blue, you must be lynched." Remotely real cases. The only time that I don't, is when we are at deadline, and the wagon needed is not the wagon that I want lynched.

There's a school of thought that the third voter on a bandwagon is likely scum. What do you think?

Get your head out of the wiki.

I noticed that when it's raining outside, chocolate is cheaper at my local supermarket. Chocolate must be produced by rain. That type of cause-effect inference is similar to using an observation made by the wiki to predict behavior out of context. It's a lovely guise for shitty cases from scum.

I find this to be rather ignorant and rude. as if he's setting Papa Zito up to be a player that is only able to get reads on people, from what is on wiki. Almost like he's trying to cripple PZ's credibility. But PZ is right about the bandwagon. And, how is it a guise for scum? If I were a scum player, i would never say that. Why? If I initially lead the case on someone, and wanted to push that lynch, and I said that, then that would cause people to look into their cases, and then who I wanted to lynch, would not get lynched. Because of the bandwagon disruption. So no, it is a horrible guise for scum.

To avoid looking like I'm just trying to follow Papa Zito's lead on Nuwen here's an abbreviation of the first sentence of the reason that I would give if I were voting for Nuwen right now:

T K T N H T T T T L A A P G A S I H V P A T S O G D O H B I O G W H M # W H R A S W K.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

I don't understand.....

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I agree with PZ's analysis regarding TDC and Nuwen. Nuwen's argument is flawed from the very beginning, yet he pursued that with haste. TDC is making decisions based on others arguments and such. Seems like an easy way out for him possibly.

I was just kicked out of college and have spent the last few days inside of a bottle, please don't expect much from me right now. I'm sorry.

Appeal to emotion? However, i'm sorry for that loss, it truly sucks.


Another thing that stood out to me is MightyMouse. We're four, now five pages into the game, and you mentioned one thing only, from page three. Could we get some content? It seems like all your doing is IIOA. Here, here, here, Well... no content here, and here. When you're going to be V/LA, at least make a post where you catch up. You haven't done so yet. You have given us practically nothing to work with right now.

Vote: MightyMouse.

Let's see where this goes.

[BloodCovenent]

N
@BloodCovenent: Why would you cast a vote for MiteyMouse saying that you'll see what her response is directly after she says that she'll be V/LA for the next 5 days?

Sorry, i just get frustrated some times when people aren't active during important times. (this isn't the first game). Our mod left us in another game

I'll keep my vote there, unless I put some other case together, or i need to change my vote. I really need to know what is going through MM's head right now.

As for that list that you need us to make, i'll try and get that with in the next day or so. Just have a lot on my hands right now with work.

[BloodCovenent]

hey, i was in 801 as well, and i made it to end game

[BloodCovenent]

Thank you Papa Zito and TDC for your answers. BloodCovenent, take your time as I'd like to hear your informed answer rather than something rushed. I still want to hear from everyone else.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

I'll post more in depth tomorrow i guess. It's just late, and i have work in the morning.

The way that I would look at it would probably be different from the way that others would have chosen. I would keep players that I have already played with before, rather than exclude them. Mainly because I have a small knowledge of their play style, and have either seen them as pro-town roles vs scum. In brief, players such as AshMC1984 and Papa Zito (whom I have played with) i would have rather kept them in the running from chosen one. Something along those lines, if you really want me to go into more detail, let me know. This is my first time playing with the majority of the group here, so I don't have much knowledge of many of the players. My list would be considerably short.

That's probably how I would choose the list, either that, or take the people with the least amount of experience on MS and let them be in the running.

[BloodCovenent]

I'm currently seeking replacements for both Archon.

Saw that coming.

I have to say, that i think a no lynch is a horrible idea. Because if scum made it both to lylo(?) then as soon as a townie voted for someone, scum would just jump on the wagon.

anyways. Here is my list. based on original characters.

Archon

- keep - kubrick, replaced out day 1 (as scum). Can't say I didn't see it coming

AshMC1984

- keep - kubrick, played a pro-town role, mediocre-ly

BloodCovenent

- one cool cat!

ClockworkRuse

- exclude - never played with before, have no experience with, would have been harder to read at the moment.

MiteyMouse

- exclude - never played with before, have no experience with, would have been harder to read at the moment.

nadroj15

- keep - Never played with before, don't know the play style.

Nuwen

- exclude - Has a decent amount of experience in MS, more than me.

Papa Zito

- exclude - Currently in 95 with him, he played very well, and even earned a NK day 1.

TDC

- keep - Never played with before, no experience with him.

[BloodCovenent]

No, not really, I said that wrong. The mafia have to lynch the townie who isn't the chosen. If they don't then we win. I could also have been intending to write they lose but I don't remember. It's a slip and I apologize for the confusion. Make of it what you will.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

I Understood what you meant. The scum must lynch the chosen one in order to win, correct? And that might be difficult. So what happens if it comes down to two scum and 1 townie after that day lynch?

No lynch = no fun. Basically the Chosen is just an extra scum-loss mechanic. Since lynching the Chosen doesn't guarantee the town a loss, I'd just ignore that he/she even exists. I still like the lists though, it's good to get in people's heads.

I Tried to convince all the players in a vengeful mafia game to no lynch to day 100. (3 VT's, 1 GF mafia, 1 Mafia goon) Would have been epic.

BloodCovenent, how do ClockworkRuse and MiteyMouse differ from nadroj15 there?

Mighty Mouse : Joined: 18 Sep 2008
Nadroj15 : Joined: 25 Apr 2009
afatchick : Joined: 04 Aug 2008

Meant to write AfatChick Accidentally deleted the wrong one when I copied the list from post number 1.

[BloodCovenent]

Mighty Mouse : Joined: 18 Sep 2008
Nadroj15 : Joined: 25 Apr 2009
afatchick : Joined: 04 Aug 2008

Meant to write AfatChick Accidentally deleted the wrong one when I copied the list from post number 1.

How do I fit into that picture? My join date predates any of the three, yet my result is the same as nadroj's.

Not sure, was just going down the list, didn't really research anyone's games or anything. I've heard that you were a relatively pro-town player. I'd rather have players in the keep category that were known to be clumsy and make mistakes, or ones that i have no knowledge about.

[BloodCovenent]

Where did you hear about TDC's play?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

Cateraction, Real life friend of mine. He tends to read up on old games and such. I told him that I was in this game, i mentioned a few of the player names that stuck out to me, he mentioned his thoughts. Both of us tend to talk a lot about mafia games that we play in (not ones when we're playing together though). In case your wondering, "why were we talking about players," we talk about other peoples play styles and such, and fill each other in with what-not. We just really enjoy the game, he was the one that showed me the site, we're also going to try and mod a game together in the future.

[BloodCovenent]

Why's that specifically directed at me?

Can you post the link to that game?

Kubrick

[BloodCovenent]

This feels like reaching to me. IF Raivann is scum, he still wasn't here when they came up with the strategy. So how would he know what their strategy was?

It's standard practice to allow scum replacees to communicate with their partners, isn't it?

umm... i don't think so... Is It? When I replaced into my first game as scum, I did not have any communications with my partner until night 1. Ever since, I haven't been scum. So I don't know.

[BloodCovenent]

Upon a cursory meta search, I noticed that you cast random votes in Mini 801 and Mini 785 as town. What induced the sudden change of policy?

I'm surprised no one corrected Nuwen on this. Archon was scum in the first of those games (which also had Ash and BC in it,) and a jester in the other. This meta argument was based on false data.

I did indeed mention it. right here.

The "pretty cool guy... doesn't afraid of anything" is a meme, Mitey. I'm very much in favor of Ash/Raivann(Nuwen) as our scum, and Herodotus seems to be thinking along the same lines.

Oh, I see, you're cuddling with him? I think I'm happy with my vote right now!

I'm not liking your play style MM. You say you're happy with your vote. But that was your RVS vote, do you have any case on Papa Zito? Do you have a gut read on anyone else? Do you have suspicions on anyone else? I've said this once, right after you went V/LA, and i'm hereby requesting your opinion on the matter.

Another thing that stood out to me is MightyMouse. We're four, now five

(no nine)

pages into the game, and you mentioned one thing only, from page three. Could we get some content? It seems like all your doing is IIOA. Here, here, here, Well... no content here, and here. When you're going to be V/LA, at least make a post where you catch up. You haven't done so yet. You have given us practically nothing to work with right now.

Now, i have not added your more recent posts, however, none of them seem to have much value to them at the moment.

[BloodCovenent]

@mod: Whats the deadline? it must be sneaking up on us.

[BloodCovenent]

You don't like my playstyle...that is fine.

I should have been straightforward and said posting content.

Would you like it better if I took off my random vote and revoted Papa? Just because it wa a random vote does not mean that I cannot vote for that person later on in the game...

True, but you have absolutely no case on said player. Sure, you would have had the time to concoct one.

I have voiced my suspicions...I have not had a chance to build full cases yet but, I have said at least twice that I suspect Zorblag and now Papa Zito as well. Is that not good enough for you or are you not reading my posts? You do say that you haven't taken the recent one's into account...have you read them?

Where have you voiced your suspicions? Was it post 214, where you suspect PZ and Zor of sending messages back and forth to each other? Or is it 216 where you suggest PZ with buddying with someone? Your content and responses are so vague that it's hard to pick up anything from you at all. Your answers and responses are very superficial, leading me to believe that you are trying to hide something, and not be put in the limelight.

And yes, we are at 9 pages...I left at the start of page 5 and posted on page 9...the pages that did not have me posting were when I was away. I always have trouble at the start of games and, I did not post much but, I'd like to think that what I have posted since I got back is at the very least worth reading.

worth reading, i guess. You have posted five times since I confronted you again.
1. Nothing
2. The only insightful tidbit here is your paragraph three, regarding what Zor said to another playing in another game.
3. Nothing
4. Basically the same thing that was suggest in number 2.
5. Thought of buddy-buddy between PZ and Kor

The thought of PZ and Kor buddying together is in fact intriguing, however i am currently getting a pro-town read from both players. I'll have to do a read of their dialogue.

[BloodCovenent]

Oh no, my apologies, i thought Zorblag was Korblag for some reason. Please, ha ha, note that when reading. I intend Kor to mean Zor, short for Zorblag.

[BloodCovenent]

I agree with both of the players above. Day one is generally the same.

[BloodCovenent]

Damn.. how did that Happen. Yea, I am. Sorry about that.

[BloodCovenent]

Saying things like a random lynch "won't hit scum but might hit the Chosen one" is a scare tactic. And it's also factually incorrect: a random lynch is twice as likely to hit scum as it is to hit the Chosen.

@Mod: Could you clarify this? Are the scum potential targets for the random lynch?

Either way, I think it should be avoided, but knowing is better than not knowing.

concerned?

[BloodCovenent]

Saying things like a random lynch "won't hit scum but might hit the Chosen one" is a scare tactic. And it's also factually incorrect: a random lynch is twice as likely to hit scum as it is to hit the Chosen.

@Mod: Could you clarify this? Are the scum potential targets for the random lynch?

Either way, I think it should be avoided, but knowing is better than not knowing.

concerned?

Can. You. Answer. My. Question.

Where? the last question that I could find, was like page 6, and I answered it. Links please.

[BloodCovenent]

TDC, in that case, what are your thoughts about MiteyMouse as potential scum or the chosen at this point?

Both possible as far as I'm concerned. I don't really have a read on her, though.

As far as 2:7 mountainous goes, that's worse than F11 (the current newbie setup), and scum win that one pretty often.

not true, my first game, i was scum, 2:7 set-up. Town win.

[BloodCovenent]

I'm not sure what to say to TDC, it was either a mistake on my part, or I was posting the list on a rather late night (which isn't unusual). What was probably was the case, i just created my list on what knowledge I had previously, and made decisions based on that, and by the time that I got to your name, i just kept you in the keep category. It was such a long time ago, i don't think that I really remember what was going through my head at that time.

[BloodCovenent]

Well, if I could change it now, after these 12 pages of gameplay, i would exchange you with Mighty mouse, because I find her play very bad. and what appeared to be in conjunction with someone else's meta of MM. If I had to change it back then, it would still be either MM, or Clock Work Ruse.

[BloodCovenent]

I'll re-read the case against Rai, but my top suspect is still MM.

[BloodCovenent]

Raivann

:

Zorblag

,

afatchic

,

Nuwen

,

Papa Zito

(random as he doesn't know the players in the game)

Did anyone else notice that Rai excluded himself?

I'll re-read the case against Rai, but my top suspect is still MM.

You willing to switch at deadline?

Yea, lynches are always important.

Regarding PZ's thoughts on playing the game like any regular newbie game, isn't a bad idea, but Having Zorb's thoughts, and his worrying about the Chosen is also good. The hard part is finding the balance, because if we can't kill scum, then we can't win. That's why worrying just about the chosen one isn't enough in itself. It almost feels that we haven't done that much scum hunting, due to this whole "chosen" idea looming over our heads. But, anyways, more scum hunting to come day 2.

Also, can anyone show me, post a link, or summarize what the case against Rai is? I looked back to where he was replaced and I couldn't find it. I remember some remotely scummy things that Nuwen posted, early day 1, but i wasn't sure if they had relevance to the case against Rai.

[BloodCovenent]

Raivann

:

Zorblag

,

afatchic

,

Nuwen

,

Papa Zito

(random as he doesn't know the players in the game)

Did anyone else notice that Rai excluded himself?

Which tells you what?

o.o Frankly, i'm not sure what to think of it. Looks like he just randomly wrote the names down without giving it much thought, without realizing that he put himself down.

[BloodCovenent]

I'm not sure how scum could avoid someone deciding that they're not the chosen in a LyLo situation. They get to act however they want but they don't get to choose what conclusions others come to.

If someone is going out of their way to attack everyone then that'll be a better candidate than normal for scum in this game. That on it's own should make it harder for scum to avoid the sort of situation that Albert B. Rampage was in.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

No, I meant that with 2 Scum in endgame, one could go after each Town, thereby eliminating that Town advantage. just waiting for the hammer opportunity.

Not unless we lynch one scum first.