Mini 808 - Rabbit Doubt Mafia: Over!

[don_johnson]

replacing in. i have to pee.

[dj enters room 1]

[don_johnson]

i don't want to lynch myk, but that's because i like playing with him. i am up to page 5 and have no suspicion of him. i will try to catch up and put in some cents asap.

mod: i request deadline extension.

[don_johnson]

Yes i guess you are right so

Vote: owner of post 662

Id also like an extension by the way

did you just simultaneously place myk at L-1 while asking for an extension?

vote: mafiamann

[don_johnson]

Don, you can't say that someone who can't be linked to anyone, is town.

some of you have read the story. what is the big advantage for scum?
according to what some guys said, town should be able to get a doc, cop and vig. Wouldn't that be to overpowered compared to scum?

i didn't say that. could there be a cult mechanic at work here? i.e. scum grows over time?

[dj leaves room 1]
[dj enters room 2]

unvote

please slow down on the lynch if you are interested in me catching up. i have the day off tomorrow. please bold requests for an extension if you are interested. i am currently on page 9. i have yet to see a case on anyone, can someone please present cases on the lynchees?

[don_johnson]

yes. i have a key. i thought you would know that.

[don_johnson]

i will be on in a couple of hours here and try to catch up for good. why isn't anyone else bolding requests for an extension? are we all really so sure of myk?

[don_johnson]

[dj enters corridor]
[dj enters room 4]
[dj enters corridor]
[dj enters room 7]
[dj enters corridor]
[dj enters room 8]
[dj enters corridor]
[dj enters room 9]
[dj enters corridor]
[dj enters room 10]
[dj enters corridor]
[dj enters room 12]
[dj enters ocrridor]

[dj enters room 6]

vote: myko

good luck little bunnies!

[don_johnson]

sorry guys. no i wasn't caught up. i just realized that nothing i was gonna do would derail the myko lynch so i figured i'd check out all the rooms and hammer. i didn't pick anything up, and entering the dark room had no ill effects.

vote: mafiamann

his story is bullshit.

[don_johnson]

^^ yes. who is this "gregory" person anyway.

[dj enters the corridor]

[don_johnson]

i never caught up. this game is difficult and i am not going to reread unless i absolutely have to(and not, threatening to lynch me is not going to spark any interest). i explored all the open rooms and hammered for the reasons stated earlier. honestly i like myk, but i have never seen him talk his out of a lynch without claiming a town pr so i saw his demise as inevitable. don't look at me to figure this mess out. i am just a bunny. can't you tell from my cute little ears? anyways, i went into the dark room and had no ill effects. i think mafiamann is full of shit.

looker: haven't we played together before? why would you want my opinion?

[don_johnson]

gregory: you seem to be waffling here.

[don_johnson]

[dj enters room 11]

looks like scummy scummerson has chosen to replace. this should be interesting.

[don_johnson]

apparently my key won't work again.

[dj enters room 7]

is there like an ice pick or something in here?

[don_johnson]

plus, lynching msg is always a good time. but we should wait til he's read up.

[don_johnson]

he's molest. case closed.

[dj enters corridor]
[dj enters room 12]
[dj closes door]

[don_johnson]

Something in the Iec-KMD conversation seems very forced.

Hmm. Maybe he's scum. Still feeling Donscum a little stronger though.

por que? no comprende.

[don_johnson]

unvote, vote: kmd

te gusta bandwagon de kmd.

[don_johnson]

Porque tu eres muy scummy.
-Vote Count analysis pins you as a likely suspect
-The hammer didn't seem like a town hammer
-Zt pretty much lurked the same way he did in Zazie's last modded game as scum
-You remind me of your scum game in Speed Dating (posting frequency, lack of content, quick to act, etc)

- please explain vc analysis
- please define "town hammer"? was my explanation not reasonable?
- cannot answer for this one
- interesting. i would disagree. in that game i mostly lied about catching up and rereading. i have been honest here. also, both you and molester were in that game with me so even though its wifom, do you think i'd play to a scum meta given the circumstances?

[don_johnson]

touche. i don't think the meta matches, though. like i said. i am either being honest about not catching up and rereading or i am lieing and catching up and rereading in secret. very different than lieing about actually catching up. what is my scum motivation other than "wifom"? do you generally find scum on a day 1 hammer? especially ona lynch that was all but inevitable?

[don_johnson]

Don, the motivation would be the same here as it was in Speed Dating. I don't know what that motivation is, but you admitted here that you used it as a scum tactic there. So if you are doing it, the motivation is the same (Batt is FoSing for the wrong reason. Respond to WIFOM with more WIFOM like I just did).

yes. but in that game i lied. in this game i am not lieing. or if i am lieing then i am lieing completely illogically.

Whether or not scum hammer Day 1 highly depends on the game and specifics of the situation. You can't definitively say that scum

do

or

don't

hammer on Day 1. Your vote, specifically, was scummy. You either weren't caught up or you caught up without telling us any opinions. You hammered without giving specific reasons.

sorry guys. no i wasn't caught up. i just realized that nothing i was gonna do would derail the myko lynch so i figured i'd check out all the rooms and hammer. i didn't pick anything up, and entering the dark room had no ill effects.

You called out the lack of bolded extension requests and never made one yourself. And I didn't like the "are we sure?" post before your hammer.

my second post in iso clearly has a bolded extension request. why didn't you like the post? i was giving other players the oppurtunity to jump off the wagon. noone bit, so I hammered. from what i did read i didn't see any reason to lynch myk and i clearly stated that in my earlier posts. day 1 is never easy and i felt that holding up the lynch when it was clear it was what people wanted to do was just silly. noone at any time offered up any specific evidence or specific sections for me to reread so yeah, i didn't catch up, but only because i thought it pointless. am i the onnly voter on that wagon you think is scummy?

[don_johnson]

who is this "philey" character? and could you be more explicit as to what it is you think they've done?

[don_johnson]

But if you were lying, you would say this exact same thing. Saying "hurhur I'm not lying" doesn't make you sound any more honest. The fact that you continue to repeat it makes me doubt you even more.

not sure what you are getting at here. you accused me of lieing. i am obviously not lieing as it makes no logical sense for me to do a thorough reread and analysis and then lie about whether or not i am actually doing it. what are you accusing me of lieing about exactly? if i haven't lied, then why continue with such a malicious line of questioning if not to bolster a weak case through some sort of "guilt by repetition" method?

But you called out the lack of bolded requests later, and I'd expect that if you really wanted the extension, you'd have made the request again when it went unsanswered.

uh no. my request was answered. it was clearly stated by the mod that extension requests be bolded. i bolded mine. when others made requests that were not bolded i saw it as a tactic to appear pro town without following through to actually be pro town. at what point did you request an extension?

You hammered because no one unvoted?

that and to secure a day 1 lynch. players don't get to L-1 by accident. please don't try to paint me as some scum mastermind for successfully lynching on day 1. its not a very strong point.

How is it pointless to catch up? You missed out on a lot of opinions you could have formed.

read my meta. i am horrible town. it was frustrating to catch up so i figured i would go with town's judgement for day 1 and see what happened. not everyone in town needs to scumhunt.

I think Phily is scummy too, so no, not just you from that wagon.

and why?

[don_johnson]

a) what "pressure"?

b) what do you not like about my responses?

[don_johnson]

A) Kmd has been voting you all day and has directed his last several posts at you and your behavior.

okay. that doesn't really translate into "pressure" from where i am sitting, but whatever.

B) I don't like your explanation for hammering, namely. More recently:

players don't get to L-1 by accident.

not everyone in town needs to scumhunt.

I would never type these as town. Granted, I like to think I wouldn't type them as scum, either. But they're certainly odd. Myko made some similarly odd comments after some pressure from Kmd, which is why I said this seems familiar.

odd how?

do you think players get to L-1 by accident?

do you think everyone in town

needs

to scumhunt? i.e. i replaced into a long game. i explained why i hammered. i haven't once avoided the issues here.

[don_johnson]

mastin: is it possibly that icerint seems to be pushing unwarranted suspicion in my direction with some really scummy catch phrases like

I'm not crazy about DJ's responses to Kmd's pressure

and

I would never type these as town. Granted, I like to think I wouldn't type them as scum, either.

But they're certainly odd.

and

But more than that, what's scummy (or at least odd) about your statement is that it implies that scum never hammers town. I doubt that.

?

exactly where did i imply that "

scum never hammers town

"?

[don_johnson]

ebwop:

unvote, vote ice

[don_johnson]

Agreeing with Avatar-guy's point about... the guy who I haven't thought of a name for yet. I don't even know what the avatar is. Dammit, give me a name, guy-who-made-post-886!

guy in salmon t-shirt and white suit.

yes. but in that game i lied. in this game i am not lieing.

This relies on us taking your word for it. Which is a bad defence.[/quote]

no. the lie itself would be illogical. i am being accused of saying "i'm not rereading" and that statement being a lie. if i am lieing then i actually am rereading. why would i lie about such a thing.

i was giving other players the oppurtunity to jump off the wagon. noone bit, so I hammered

If you're giving people the opportunity to hop off, you clearly don't like the wagon. Why finish it?

as i said. it seemed rather inevitable at that point. day 1 is always wifomic and generally only serves the purpose of thinning the crowd for information. my opinion didn't seem like it would matter much so i went with the majority.

[don_johnson]

i must be dense.

i asked for an extension. i believe we got one.

you didn't. at all. ever.

omg. i hammered on day 1 for the sake of lynching. how scummy.

uh yeah. you scumhunt, tell me who to vote for and why. i'll play how i want to.

[don_johnson]

do you think players get to L-1 by accident?

No, but do they allways need to be lynched?

of course not. there was no other viable candidate that i could see. would you prefer a day 1 no lynch?

do you think everyone in town

needs

to scumhunt?

Yep, If you don't want to, I'll happely vote you. Because to me, You and KMD are both scummy, but he tries to make something of this game. YOU DON'T. If you're dead next day, we won't miss you.

i asked for an extension.

don't use that as defense, it isn't.

really? even when the accusation started off that i "didn't ask for an extension", and then moved to "well you could have asked again"? seems a perfectly reasonable defense to me.

omg. i hammered on day 1 for the sake of lynching.

while you didn't want to lynch myko, and we had enough time for a lynch. Very Protown.

there were no other lynch candidates. it was less than 12 hours to deadline. sounds like enough time for a "speedlynch". so far you r argument seems like you would have rather had a "speedlynch" or a "no lynch". so yeah, i will agree with your last sentence. my actions were very pro-town.

uh yeah. you scumhunt, tell me who to vote for and why. i'll play how i want to.

yeah, play like you want,
when you're dead

ha. i get it. now you're trying to use humor to cover up your poor reasoning for a vote. would you care to lay out an actual case? perhaps you could follow up your accusation of kmd with some actual evidence as well.

[don_johnson]

You failed to answer my question, don. I asked if everyone (you included) had read the rules yesterday. If anyone had, you would have noticed what happens at deadline...

neither did looker, gregory or phyl. what happens at deadline?

[don_johnson]

no lynch is not possible. you could have made a statement by voting KMD, and maybe some players would have changed their vote. Don't say there was no other option. There allways is.

was unaware that no lynch was not possible. sorry.

NO. KMD has got a point here. YOU didn't want to vote myk. You didn't want to vote KMD, so your best option is an extension.

yes. agreed. which is why i asked for an extension and then criticized others for not bolding there extension requests.

KMD was voting myk, and was sure myk was scum. Why would KMD have asked for an extension? an extension would have been good for you, so YOU should have been the one to try to get other people asking for the extension too. If you don't want to try that, you're just lazy.
so don't use it as an defense, if you had really wanted it, you would have asked more times.

^^ no. not at all. extensions are usually granted on a majority rules type basis. i have NEVER replaced into a game and had a mod simply extend deadline just for me. no your argument is becoming scummy. an extension would have been good for TOWN, not just me.

look at the post wich I'm quoting. YOU are the one who tries to blow my case with being the funny-guy. smiles and joking around won't help you. I am serious. If you don't want to scumhunt in this game, I will do anything I can to get you killed.

so... you are a bunny killer? i used a frown smiley to show sadness at your rude comments and i used the luaghing smiiley because of how laughable your case is.

unvote, vote gregory

if i didn't need to vote in order to lynch, and regardless of whether or not i was aware of the ruleset regarding deadlines, what benefit did scumdj have for the actions which you are using as evidence that i am scum?

[don_johnson]

don- show me where you criticized others for not bolding extensions...

twice. posts 3 and 5 in dj iso.

greg is scummy because his case on me is bullshit. i am surprised that anyone is buying it.

[don_johnson]

So asking for everyone that wants a deadline to bold a request for it and asking if everyone is sure of the Myk lynch is criticizing?

yes. it is most certainly addressing the issue in a manner contradictory to what the accusation against me has been. if you would like to argue semantics feel free. the accusation was why i didn't "ask for an extension". the response was that i did(which i have proved) and that i did it more than just once(which i have proved) and that i called others out on the situation(which i have proved). would you like me to again refer you to my iso posts which contain the evidence?

why are you only interested in my answer to this:

I asked if everyone (you included) had read the rules yesterday.

Two other players posted in between the question and the above reiteration, yet you only call me on it. why?

[don_johnson]

happy with the greg wagon.

Batt and phyl are my seconds. suspicions against me are crap at this point. no, i should not be above scrutiny, but the attacks seem forced and the fact that people are trying to encourage a lynch "by default" is just redonkulous.

[don_johnson]

so do you have any other thoughts? or were you planning on riding a wagon based on a false dilemma?

who do you find most likely to flip scum and why?

[don_johnson]

you misquote me. i said not all players

have to

scum hunt. big difference.

yeah, greg tried to push a shit case against me.

i believe he's at L-2.

[don_johnson]

mod: v/la through august 19th

[don_johnson]

calling bullshit on gregory. normally, a player is unaware of their sanity, so i see no reason for the mod to be alerting someone to the fact that they are, in fact, insane. sounds like a convenient scum fakeclaim.

[don_johnson]

that's just plain funny.

i believe gregory was voting me, no?

[don_johnson]

The insane doc role, I don't know why that's in the game. I haven't read the story, so maybe someone who has can tell you more about it.

i thought you had some background knowledge of the story? or was that someone else?

I agree my case on don wasn't good.

lovin' it.

looker, you're crazy. How can we ever get a read on you if even you don't know your role.

by lynching him?

guys, am I the only one who finds it odd that molestargazer hasn't been modkilled yet? Mostly that happens when someone does post a name, right?

not sure. let's find out.

requesting modkill of molestargazer for post restriction violation.

kmd, anytime you want to lay out your case is fine with me.

[don_johnson]

For starters, he wants Molest modkilled pretty badly.

and what is wrong with that? townies very rarely get a chance to affect a game in such a way. gaining information without lynching is a bonus as i see it. also, how is putting in a request = "wanting it pretty badly". i am simply trying to get some information in this thread mod confirmed in order to better understand the game. molest claimed post restriction. well, do you still believe him? wouldn't some sort of mod confirmation be helpful in this instance, even if it is a mod-kill?

[don_johnson]

you said your case on me was bad. are you now upgrading it to slightly mediocre?

can we lynch this guy already? all he's going to do is kill someone at night and say he didn't mean to do it.

[don_johnson]

i didn't say greg's points should be taken off the table, i am just pointing out that greg admitted his case was crap, but then attacks mole for basically agreeing with the fact that the case on me was crap.

kmd: no. a warning would suffice, but a modkill would certainly net us some information. i was unaware that a modkill ended the day. the only game i have been in with modkills was one where they didn't end the day unless they were scum. so whatever. i would like some sort of clarification from the mod, however, to determine whether or not mole has been lieing to us or telling the truth. don't you want to know whether someone has been faking a post restriction or not? and if it required a mod kill to verify the info, wouldn't that be a small price to pay for the truth? obviously not if he's a town pr, but you can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs.

i don't think it is a good idea to clear looker based on something he is saying that can in no way be confirmed.

[don_johnson]

batt has had some of the owrst positions of the day. he seems rather worthless imo. i'd lynch batt.

that last sentence was for the general public. i don't think its a good idea to clear looker based on what he said.

[don_johnson]

no real twist there. please show how the last thing wasn't against mole and i will retract the statement.

info about mole:

a mod warning confirms the existence of the post restriction.

a mod kill both confirms the existence of the post restriction and molestar's alignment.

i'm going to reread batt in iso. i don't like his constant misdirectional votes. i also(upon reread) do not like his rvs statements and soft claim.

[don_johnson]

why are we lynching me or looker? mole has been less active since his slip-up and we have no mod confirmation of whether or not his postrestriction exists which should logically tell us that he is lieing.

mod: molestar has broken his alleged post restriction. what penalty should we expect here?

I already have.

Then how about helping me out and linking me to it / explaining again?

^^ the post has not so much as been edited to reflect the pr. does the matter of truth in this regard not mean anything to anybody?

what is the case on looker? minus the modkilkl request, what is the case against me? as i explained, a modkill request is no different from a dayvig attempt. i find it extremely scummy that the restriction was broken without so much as an edit or reprimand.

unvote, vote molestargazer

fine. i'll put more emphasis on this subject. moles defense was "he's trying to get a townie modkilled." why would a townie fake a post restriction for this long?

[don_johnson]

molestar: i have no case on you other than the fact that there is no proof of your post restriction existing. if you want me to move my vote then pm the mod and ask him to confirm its existence in some way. i am not asking specifically for modkill, but a post edit, an in thread warning, or anything of that vein would help right now.

ice: i will gladly come back to greg. my suspicions of batt are not just his recent action, but his last few. i can detail it more later. tbh, i am ignoring kmd as i think his issue with me is personal. i lurked through a game with both he and molest for a scum win. it was lame. but i won. so whatever. if he presents a good case i will refute it, but right now there doesn't seem to be much against me and asking me to continue explaining statements i have already attempted to explain isn't going to get us anywhere. it should be obvious by now that i am, in fact, contributing and scumhunting. because i simultaneously have the belief that not everybody has to participate on the same level does not make me scum. to put it hypothetically: i have seen plenty of town power roles lurk through games as long as they could. non-participation =/= scummy in all instances.

[don_johnson]

^^ trouble in paradise?

[don_johnson]

O, no, I looked at it myself a while back when Batt first posted about it. I thought he was insisting I broadcast it to the world via means other than votes and typical or anti-typical behavior. Yeah, but yeah, it's depressing...

@Molestar & DJ: You know the drill, which one of you deserves to die, man?

until there's proof of this post restriction i see no reason to lynch me over mole. honestly, i like batt or gregory for lynching. the only evidence against mole is this post restriction fiasco. i am not sure why mole isn't pming the mod about it in order to clear it up. i sure as hell would be.

[don_johnson]

the post restriction is that he can't use names. he used a name. how is that a "minor infraction"? msg has recieved no punishment, be it fake or real. so yeah, whatever.

unvote, vote gregory

lets get some replacements.

[don_johnson]

my vote is where it was before moles incident. i think your claim is bullshit as i don't see any reason a mod would alert you to the fact that you are "insane."

[don_johnson]

fine then.

mole: please post again and use someones name. if it is a minor infraction then you should at least recive some sort of warning and not a modkill.

[don_johnson]

bastard modding.

the fact that there was no warning and that the mod is retroactively backing up the story makes me think zazie took some time to think on this one lending more towards mole being a big fat liar.

can we lynch someone now? i prefer greg, but mole will do as well. and hell, throw kmd in there for just being kmd.

[don_johnson]

agreed. but my suspicion stands. seems to be slow here. does anyone have any thoughts on anything? Bueller?

[don_johnson]

even if he's telling the truth, he's an ass backwards power role. look, we need to thin the populace and sitting on our hands isn't going to do it. greg is scummy and has made an extremely questionable claim which(according to 1132) is null in regards to his alignment anyways. so either he is scummy looking, potentially harmful town, or he is scum with a new trick up his sleeve. hmm, wait a minute. maybe if we keep him alive then we can test him out by having him kill someone tonight? it would certainly help serve the purpose of thinning the herd.

unvote, vote batt

[don_johnson]

are you crazy? do you think I'm a vig or something? If someone investigates me, he'll die. Do you want to send a powerrole to investigate me, and have your cop or vig dead next day?
allways a bad thing. If I'm lying, the cop will survive, and he'll know I'm a bad guy, but, he'll needs to claim too. If I'm not lying, your cop will die, and nobody can certify I'm town.

sorry, i misunderstood. i was thinking that as insane doc, you would kill the person you try to protect and could therefore be used as a vig. honestly, the way you are stating your role works make you a detriment to town. also, it makes no sense whatsoever for the mod to give you so much information about this role. i.e. cops rarely, if ever, know thir sanity. why would mod give you this info?

unvote, vote greg

whoever said i'm suspicious because i want someone to get lynched is a jackass. the game will go nowhere if we sit on the fence all day. let's lynch the useless "insane doc" who can't be investigated.

[don_johnson]

You want him to kill a townie tonight? And you called me worthless... So, let's see. DJ has wanted to test out two hypothesis, which would result in two townies' death and at least one would be a powerrole if he is wrong. Ya, somehow I don't see this as a good idea.

this rhetoric? i completely think this statement is crap. who said anything about we wanting "kill townies". i was thinking "insane doc". insane docs usually kill whoever they protect, therefore he could use his ability as a vig effect. i never suggested he kill a townie. his choice would obviously be someone we all thought to be possible scum.

ice: i am glad to lynch either batt or greg today. please don't misrepresent me here. i know i screwed up with my idea, but what batt is suggesting isn't even close to what i said.

[don_johnson]

Nah, I'm referring to the places where Batt's been emphasizing that the Mod wouldn't inform Greg about his sanity. He's continuously mentioned as much, and no one else's really taken to that particular point IIRC, so you must have picked it up from him. This is strange because you want to lynch Batt for his last couple of positions, but now you're advocating one of his positions.

An alternative explanation is that you're not reading all of Batt's posts and happened to independently come to the same conclusion as him, which is similarly suspect.

Please let me know if there is an third explanation I have missed.

i believe you have this backwards. i brought it up first. please reread and confirm this.

[don_johnson]

ebwop: yes. read from the claim until post 1013. i am the first to call disingenuity on the claim. that's also around the time batt starts doing things like voting tenchi(a completely absent player), and pushing for the looker lynch based on mathematical odds. i.e. batt isn't even scum hunting. now he's grabbing my reason for voting greg and doesn't seem to mind getting credit for something he should damn well know isn't true. i'd lynch batt here, however, my point on greg stands. players don't generally know their sanities right off the bat.

[don_johnson]

You have no case on me, except that you don't agree with who I find scummy and who I want lynched.

^^ main issue. you are not "finding" anyone scummy. you are trying to lynch players based on site wide inactivity and/or not reading their role pms. these are a bit random. if tenchi's slot bothers you then ask for replacements.

Is it possible this is a minor infraction that was obviously unintentional and not worthy of a modkill? Is it possible that MSG only has to censor people in his posts and not the "Player A wrote:" structure of the quote function, if not abused obviously?

absolutely, but like i said there was NO indication from the mod whatsoever that the post restriction even existed. the retroactive mod statement having taken so long to land in the thread points more towards mole lieing than telling the truth.

no, msg claimed the post resrtiction was that he could not uyse players names. he never clarified this. this reads as though you are offering him an out.

also: what's wrong with getting players who may be scum killed?

[don_johnson]

So, your case on MSG then is to outguess the mod instead of inherent scummy activity.

no. lieing is scummy. by virtue of the chain of events i would say that it is more likely that msg is lieing, thus scummy.

also: what's wrong with getting players who may be scum killed?

With MSG, you would be getting a player killed for purposely breaking the rules (I say player as having a post restriction is a null tell) when the only case on him is based on outguessing the mod.

no. see above.

With Gregory, you would be betting the life of a town power role on the fact that gregory is scum and lying.

I agree, but I think he is lying. Mainly because he claims he is insane doc.

why are you perpetuating a misunderstanding here? i never implied i wanted to risk a town power role. i cleaqrly stated that i thought greg could use his ability like a vig. you agree that you think he is lying. what exactly are you doing defending him now?(if that's what you're doing)

You are being reckless in your pursuit to eliminate players ("thinning the herd"). This is only D2, slow down.

^^ coming from the guy who initially wanted to lynch a guy whose being replaced. slow down? perhaps we should just stop? thinning the herd is one of the most effective ways to find scum. we have two players who are more likely than not lieing. statistically speaking one of the two of them has a pretty good chance of flipping scum which makes them both good lynch candidates. however,your 50% statistic in regards to looker is the most fallacious pice of math i have ever seen.

unvote, vote batt

i'm fine with taking a wait and see approach with greg. your constant contradiction between the way you are playing and what you are preaching is enough evidence for me to lynch you first.

[don_johnson]

that's all fine and good, fellas. can we lynch batt? i mean seriously. have any of you been following the conversation? call my votes what you will, at least i'm doing something. my last couple of votes have been well explained imo.

[don_johnson]

^^ why would anyone ask this?

scumtastic point number two against mole: rolefishing.

Iec: perhaps you should read up on things you are going to coment on if you can only "vaguely recall" them. i have no problem with modkills. they offer mod confirmed information in an instant. i didn't think mole's death would necessarily end the day, but i wanted an answer to the question of whether or not he is lieing. as of yet, there is no evidence in this thread that the post restriction actually exists besides an innocuous retroactively applied, ambiguous mod statemtent neither confirming nor denying its existence. please exand on why you "think" looker and greg are lieing.

[don_johnson]

DJ: OK, I remember you pushing for the modkill even after you knew it would end the day, and I found that scummy. Is that better? Also, why wouldn't you just set the record straight in a circumstance like that?

uh. what was this:

i have no problem with modkills.

that doesn't set the record straight?

I think Greg is lying because doctor is the classic scum PR fakeclaim. That he goes a step farther and claims investi-proof doctor just makes it worse. His claim is very convenient for scum.

so, you want to lynch a claimed doc without a counterclaim?

I also don't like that he doesn't believe MSG. As they apparently both experienced role changes due to opening a door, I'd expect Greg to give MSG more the benefit of the doubt than the rest of us.

okay.

I share MSG's incredulity at your "rolefishing" accusation. At worst, his action will make Greg publicize his read of MSG (which, judging from what MSG quoted, is some kind of PR), which may be anti-town, but isn't scummy because MSG would be rolefishing his own role.

uh, what? do you have any idea what quote mole snipped the 85% statement from? greg said he was 85% sure he knew who the cop was. do you want him to state in thread who he thinks is the cop? by mole asking for clarification can only mean he is "fishing" for more info on who greg thinks is cop. hence: rolefishing. you guys are idiots.

[don_johnson]

i think mole's just upset with me for trying to get him modkilled.

iec: to further clarify, i don't remember if discovering the actual mechanics changed my feelings about the modkill. i can say that i doubt they would. i.e. i wanted some type of mod confirmation regarding the post restriction, whether it be warning, mod-kill, or lack thereof(which is what we got). the fact that it may end up in a townie being dead wasn'y worrying me. we can't all live to endgame, and we don't have to in order to win.

[don_johnson]

A modkill gives us less information than a lynch. A lynch gives us wagons, defending, attacking and what not.

^^ did someone say otherwise? this is kind of an entirely useless post at this stage of the game. have you nothing of more substance to add?

[don_johnson]

Then why would you want a modkill over a lynch? If you think Mole is lying vote him. Man, you are so infuriating to play with...

who said i wanted a modkill

over

a lynch? i wanted some sort of resolution as to whether or not msg was lieing. the mod tried to clear it up, but at this point there is really no way to decide based on the infraction due to the mod's ambiguous response. i am willing to lynch mole and don't believe i have said otherwise. for someone who wants to "slow down", you seem more and more eager to lynch someone.

[don_johnson]

Looker: Which is the exact reason I voted Tenchi... but DJ seems to think we should allow them to float since he attacked me for attacking Tenchi.


DJ: Am I advertising we kill 2 or 3 people in 1 day/night? No. Do we need to lynch someone today? Yes. And you wanted a modkill, why else would you ask the mod to modkill MSG. Instead of getting clarification, which would be a modkill, you could have pushed for him to be lynched. Why you haven't? Cause you have no case on him. I want to lynch you so bad, but Gregory needs to go. Which is a wagon you help support, but have just recently helped stall by switching off it at the last second.

come on now. i voted msg a bit back and noone wanted to do it. i wanted a modkill? yes. why waste a lynch on scum when i can get him modkilled? it seems much more efficient to get him modkilled. the fact that he wasn't modkilled brought up the issue of him possibly lieing(which the mod retroactively has attempted to dispel in an extremely ambiguos manner). because of this i called for his lynch and everyone got pissed. so? now what? what more of a case do i need against mole? should we wait until he shows up with a bunny in his mouth? the fact that you are pushing such weak points and trying to squrim out of suspicion when you have contributed nothing and still want to lynch a lurker(who needs to be replaced) warrants the suspicion on you. also, i am entitled to change my mind on greg. he did claim "doc", and i completely misunderstood the mechanics of what he said. so yeah. why do you want to lynch me so bad? because i am trying to figure out who the scum is? oh, because i tried to get someone who has more than likely been lieing to us modkilled? or is it because i want to lynch you?

[don_johnson]

chain of events:

moles slot entered the dark room and claimed to have a post restriction relating to this entrance. therefore, post restriction could be said to be independent of alignment.

being suspicious of this when i entered the game i followed him into said room with no ill effects.

before hammering i entered all available rooms and recieved nothing from the mod. suspicion grew.

day 2 he breaks post restriction with no punishment. either mod doesn't care(which defeats the purpose of a post restriction) or mole is lieing. if mod doesn't care then the request for modkill will most likely elicit a warning. if mole is lieing then he is most likely scum. regardless, the pr is independent of moles alignment. the facts that he wasn't punished and seemed to make no effort via communicating with the mod in this thread( abolded request for punishment would have been fine), i think he is most likely lieing. therefore a modkill would hit scum. if he isn't lieing, then the modkill had a chance at thinning the numbers and also still had a chance at hitting scum.

now mod ambiguously defends the claim but still seems to be shrugging off the infraction without so much as a warning. i ask msg to break the restriction again and he refuses. what is he afraid of? he hasn't even recieved one warning. what bastard mod would modkill without first offering a warning? certainly not someone as hot as zazie.

you are making a big deal out of the fact that i requested a modkill and seem to discount the fact that my request has itself netted us a good deal of info regarding the mechanics of this game.

mole may be town. greg may be mafia doc. but he also might be town doc. he might be lieing. they both might be lieing. but you want to lynch me(after lynching an absentee tenchi of course)? scummy. therefore i think we

must

lynch you.

[don_johnson]

ebwop: i realize you want to lynch greg, but you have made it clear he is your third choice behind tenchi(1) and me(2).

[don_johnson]

^^ i have read it a couple times and i don't get it either.

[don_johnson]

i don't know what to make of it at this point. not really sure what i was getting at with the quote you presented. the whole situation is odd. but i find the absence of any sort of warning and/or punishment to be more indicative of the pr not existing.

regardless, i am looking for a batt lynch and have been for some time.

i have no idea who tsq is. this is all me.

[don_johnson]

*facepalm*

honestly. is anyone paying attention? are you seriously going to ask me to go back and dig up the case on batt?

i am willing to wagon iecerint for being a general pain in the ass. any takers?

[don_johnson]

alright. i'm fine with the greg lynch. i am suspicious of the action surrounding it, but whatever. univestigatable is awfully convenient.

unvote, vote greg

i swear to god if either of you a-holes turns around and says "oh, look, dj's hopping the wagon," i will replace out.

[don_johnson]

you and batt. you both seem to be asking for the lynch. i am willing to oblige. i voiced my suspicions earlier. that's when the greg wagon wasn't "cool".

[don_johnson]

i would hammer if i could. its page fifty.

[don_johnson]

then be a good townie and hammer away...

[don_johnson]

you guys realize that with greg's help we can lynch mole, right? i mean, serously, stalling on page 50 and trying to point out the questionable post restriction is a bit disadvantageous.

mole, we are only nearing a lynch if you choose to vote or if we all switch to you. kmd has made it perfectly clear he is not participating in lynching one of the scummier players.

[don_johnson]

i don't want you dead. i want the truth. you can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs.(unless you use egg-beaters, but those are nasty).

hooray. we lynched. batt, if you are a vig i am not opposed to you killing me tonight if greg flips town.

[don_johnson]

Since rule 18 allows us to talk at midnight, I have a few things to say.

you and batt. you both seem to be asking for the lynch. i am willing to oblige. i voiced my suspicions earlier. that's when the greg wagon wasn't "cool".

Regardless of this statement, you are on the wagon and you will receive some of the blame if Greg is town. This sentence sounds like you are trying to shrug off all responsibility of the lynch.

shrug off responsibility? i built the goddamn case. perhaps you missed 1239. offering to be vigged if greg is town is not "shrugging off responsibility".

you guys realize that with greg's help we can lynch mole, right? i mean, seriously, stalling on page 50 and trying to point out the questionable post restriction is a bit disadvantageous.

mole, we are only nearing a lynch if you choose to vote or if we all switch to you. kmd has made it perfectly clear he is not participating in lynching one of the scummier players.

Another instance of you calling someone scummy for not going along with what you want.

who am i calling scummy? answer: noone.

i don't want you dead. i want the truth. you can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs.(unless you use egg-beaters, but those are nasty).

hooray. we lynched. batt, if you are a vig i am not opposed to you killing me tonight if greg flips town.

1) Don't want him dead? You've been wanting him to be modkilled, and asked him to purposely break a rule. You want the truth, he claims he told you the truth, but you just don't want to believe it and the only way to disprove it would be to get him modkilled.

i'm currently on the greg wagon and was previously on your wagon. do i have suspicion of mole? yes. did i call for his modkill? yes. was i willing to lynch him today? yes. does that mean i want him dead? no. that is quite a jump in logic. the mechanics of this game require players to die. hate the game, not the playa!

2) Trying to appear townie. By calling for your vig death on a townie flip, you try to make yourself not look like scum, because (scum wouldn't ask to be vig'd). I think you are gambling on me not being a vig and/or not killing you because you asked for it. Another scenerio would be if you have a mafia doc that would protect you, but that is just speculation.

yes. that is speculation. to clarify: if there is a vig and they feel my alignment in doubt in the event of a greg town flip, i am okay with being vigged for information.

so let's see:

1) wants mole dead. not true.
2) shrugged off responsibility. not true.
3) tried to appear townie. not true(a vig kill would eliminate my slot and would offer me no chance of talking my way out of it.)

your case on tenchi is better.

[don_johnson]

uh, yeah. whatever dude. wanting someone killed for a rules infraction is not the same as wanting them dead. by your account, i am scum regardless of greg's flip, so... have fun with that. not sure why you're getting your panties in a bunch like this.

your case amounts to: dj is scum. what he does is scummy.

that's just not much of a case. i already said its okay to vig me. you're the one who soft-claimed, so if you lied, you may want to come clean. otherwise vig me and you won't have to worry about the scenario tomorrow. if you think i'm scum and can nk me then do it.

[don_johnson]

1245 is pure genius.

[don_johnson]

admirable, gregory. i agree with your suspicion of looker. my post praising 1245 was sarcastic. i don't follow looker's reasoning at all. sorry if you feel this is my doing, but univestigatable is a scary claim. oh well. waiting on zazie.

[don_johnson]

Ok, Gregory, I think you misunderstood the night pm by the mod. Your no doc, you were a paranoid gun owner last night.

Since I don't think you are scum, since you just claimed during twilight. I would say that the wagon stalling probably means one thing. At least 1 scum is inactive. We gotta get those slots filled to figure out which one(s) are scum instead of just randomly picking one.

was your case and vote on tenchi random?

[don_johnson]

no. I legitmately think he was scummy yesterday.

then choosing him out of the lurkers wouldn't be random, would it?

[don_johnson]

vote: kmd

?

[don_johnson]

do we have replacements, or are we just wingin' it?

[dj enters corridor]
[dj enters room 13]

i'm gettin' the hell outta here.

[don_johnson]

Given the events last night, I think they're more likely scum than certain other players.

according to my calculations, there were no events last night. kind of a curious statement, no?

[don_johnson]

no reason. thread was open and there was little activity. hence the question mark. i don't believe either of you. i have been in and out of every single room and have found nothing. i am still suspicious of batt, and kmd's play has been sub par, though it may just be due to his absence. you can bark all you want about me being scum, but i am a vanilla bunny and i don't see what i've done that warrants any of the suspicion.

[don_johnson]

Kmd voting DJ isn't OMGUS. He started the wagon on DJ yesterday on the basis of his voting record. Why would you want Kmd to vote Mastin to "activate inactive players"? Mastin doesn't exist.

sorry, but i don't recall a case on me ever being fleshed out. if its going to be rehashed today then i would like some sort of summary of the case. this may be a bit hypocritical of me to ask for as i will most likely not be contributing a giant case today, but whatever. this game is dragging on and i don't know what to do.

statistically speaking, spyrex is most likely not scum, but that's a whole nother story...

[don_johnson]

-

Vote Count analysis pins you as a likely suspect

how? is this point still relevant?

-The hammer didn't seem like a town hammer

why not? i checked every room, hammered. if anything it should be nulltell.

-Zt pretty much lurked the same way he did in Zazie's last modded game as scum

indefensible, but seems to be a meta argument.

-You remind me of your scum game in Speed Dating (posting frequency, lack of content, quick to act, etc)

anyone agreeing with this should read the game and see if they agree. my play is almost completely different. meta arguments are bad in general, but this one doesn't even fit.

do you really still think i'm scum?

[don_johnson]

wonderful link. i would love a third party opinion on kmd's comparison of my play here to my play in speed dating.

basically kmd is admittedly basing his lynch probability on random selection which undermines the idea that his suspicions are even valid.

i explained why i didn't make a "catch-up" post, but saying i haven't given my thoughts is ridiculous. much like the accusation yesterday of the "extension request" issue.

checking the rooms was an alternative form of scum hunting. if you notice i posted a report on my findings the very next day and, in fact, based my vote off of those findings. perhaps you need to read the thread more closely?

Being wrong is a scumtell? And on someone who loves to bus?

^^ uber hypocritical. dj is scum because of his voting record(being wrong twice), but if kmd is accused of being wrong it is suddenly a questionable tell.

happy with my vote. encouraging others to lynch kmd.

[don_johnson]

you don't think investigating our surroundings counts towards scumhunting? why don't we all just stay in the corridor then? batt and kmd claim to have found "abilities" within rooms, and on day 1 mole claimed to have been given a post restriction from simply entering a room. investigating the rooms makes sense any way you look at it.. feeling that the myko lynch was inevitable, i did what "made sense" and moved the game along.

[don_johnson]

Vote DJ

I do agree with KMD with the DJ and Looker being scum, maybe not for the same reason.

1) DJ didn't scumhunt D1 and tried to defend it by saying not everyone needs to scumhunt

and?

[quote='batt"]2) DJ hammered to move the game along. This leaves ambiguity into whether or not he thought Myk was scum or not.[/quote]

dj's in thread stance was that he didn't think myko was scum but saw the lynch as inevitable. saying anythign about ambiguity is downright misrep.

3) DJ goes after Mole for accidentally saying a person's name in a quote and not being punished.

^^ good point. why wouldn't someone be punished for breaking a post restriction?

4) DJ tries to get Mole modkilled to lessen the numbers.

dj wanted clarification. none was given. the matter has still not been resolved and noone seems to care.

5) 3 is just DJ trying to outguess the mod and 3 and 4 is DJ not trying to scumhunt

how so? i clearly stated that without the modkill or some type of punishment that i was willing to believe mole was scum. using resources to find out who the scum is is called "scumhunting".

6) DJ vote hopped D2 whenever someone threatened his wagon

yes. vote hopping is a town tell in most cases. townies don't know others alignments and are therefore naturally suspicious of most everyone.

Now, all these points are made without me going back and rereading. This is all from memory.

funny seeing as how one of the accusations is me "not scumhunting". voting from memory is a bit lackluster in the scumhunting department. don't you think you should be held accountable for the type of cases that you were requesting out of me?

Looker- I find scummy. in a way I just can't seem to understand. I will not pursue until Looker does something overly scummy or DJ is lynched.

^^ brilliant. go with the flow. taht's great scumhunting.

unvote, vote: dj

funny how NOONE has checked on the meta but that it is being used to lynch me.

[don_johnson]

sorry guys, but the case on me is ridiculous and has been. i stand by my belief that kmd is scum. he's been pushing crap suspicion on me from the start. i don't find anything about looker or ccsl to be suspicious here, my lynch was going to happen. kmd should be next. personally, after having read the manga a bit i believe this game does not have a large mafia team so i think we shoulud be okay, otherwise i woiuld have fought the lynch a little harder.

seriously, someone needs to take out kmd.

[don_johnson]

iec would be my number two at this point mainly because he seemed to be thinking clearly, but for some reason decided to get on my wagon. i think he may be one of those scum that just does a good job of looking town.

[don_johnson]

did molest have a post restriction?