Mini 830: Time Bomb Mafia (Game over!)

[don_johnson]

vote: seraphim

lynching lurkers is fine, but trying to off someone who hasn't confirmed is just plain rude.

note to all(mostly to self): be sure and understand rule #3. it may be important later on.

29:17:23:12

[don_johnson]

someone who hasn't confirmed is not "lurking". not at all. they could be dead, we have no way of knowing. seraphim's push and his seemingly ignorant response to the suggestion i have made about being sure to understand rule #3 will be keeping my vote on him until further notice.

TA is making sense as is Artem.

How long until we decide someone not posting is lurking?

^^ good question. i suggest we take it as it comes. in your case, you could easily be considered to be lurking without the advanced notice of your v/la weekends, so we need to make sure that a policy lynch does not turn into a speedlynch. the amount of time someone needs to avoid the thread in order to be voted for lurking should be on a case by case basis.

29:02:27:05

[don_johnson]

seraphim:

ignorance can be defined as the absence of understanding. you acknowledge that you did not "understand" the implications of rule three yet you attempt to cast suspicions on my statement of "seemingly ignorant" when logically, and by your own admission, my statement was spot on.

avatar's are a must.

i think sera is the first scum. not trying to tunnel here, but nothing about them is logical. also, he camped his vote on the unconfirmed player attempting to imply that unconfirmed=lurking. if he flips scum i'd look at llama as a scum partner.

28:10:57:08

[don_johnson]

hey guys, i'm v/la to august 19th. i will be traveling with the wife to visit ill family members. i will have access but will most likely be posting sparingly. if this is too much of an inconvenience i am willing to be replaced, but if not, i will make my best effort to continue contributing. sorry.

mod: v/la through august 19th

unvote

until i get caught up.

27:03:23:43

[don_johnson]

got to queens. ill family has passed away. might be able to post tomorrow, but sunday and monday are definitely out. trying to stay current as this game is timed.

vote: orange penguin

he has done nothing to deserve the defense put up by sera or dtf. possible connections and he is still riding an rvs vote. if we are going for a lurker we should be starting there.

[don_johnson]

llama should claim. he's at L-2. i have skimmed the recent posts and would like to go back and read up a bit. not sure why the op wagon died, will have to double check. seraphim still seems scummy, not sure why he keeps saying op is town. i would most certainly lynch sera.

unvote, vote seraphim

more later. either way, we should be lynching soon. barring a substantial claim i will move to llama if necessary.

21:11:35:44

[don_johnson]

haha!

fair enough.

unvote, vote llamaeatataco

time to get going.

21:11:10:26

[don_johnson]

op and artem were not on the day 1 scum wagon. one if not both of them may be scum.

vote: op

krer: i didn't hammer. so not sure what you meant about me not understanding rule 3. i have also been v/la for a week with rl issues.

artem: there are three more scum. do you think it an either/or between myself and santos or could we both be scum? who is scummier?

not sure what pms have to do with anything either. isn't it revealed in the opening posts as an open set-up? whatever. i find the "slip" reasoning behind votes to be rather weak. however, i can't say i wouldn't support a santos wagon. i think a hammer bus is more likely than an L-1 bus, if there even is a late day bus vote.

23:11:03:17

[don_johnson]

yeah, sorry about not including saber and dtf. realized that on second look. still, the idea that scum are not on a day 1 scum wagon is actually pretty solid, so i don't see how you can completely dismiss what i have to say. due to your overeraction and ad hom, my vote will stand. and yes, if santos or i were bussing then it is most certainly santos as i am well aware of my own alignment.

[don_johnson]

fair enough, krer.

artem:

1: agreed. in referencing who was not on the wagon i misanalyzed. i can explain further if need be, but the post i looked at did not have everyones names listed and so i excluded players who i should have included.

2: fair enough. with three scum left i am willing to wagon santos. if he flips scum i would gladly be lynched next for information, however, i would not be playing to my win condition to offer to go first. i found the hammer a bit scummy but would need to reread santos before committing to the wagon 100%.

i don't see the hypocrisy. i don't think a player mistaking one of the rules is a necessary slip, especially when the "slip" is said to be based off of a pm when the same rule appears at the beginning of the thread. if the information was ONLY contained within the townie pm then it would most certainly be a scumslip, but as this is not the case, i stand by my statement and deny the hypocrisy charge.

This right here is a very good point that makes DJ a good lynch also. For somebody, who paid extra special attention to the rules, it's very surprising that DJ didn't know about the open setup.

not sure i follow you here. i am scum because i pointed out a specific rule, but forgot about another rule? show me where i paid attention to ANY of the other rules besides rule 3. rule 3 is the only one i pointed out as "important" above the rest. i was v/la for several days and am involved in several games. it is entirely reasonable for me to have forgotten that the set-up was open.

seven on the wagon, five off. scum pretty much guaranteed to be in both groups, i would rather lynch from the smaller group first. perhaps we should all agree on which group to choose from and then all look at the players individually so as to streamline our process.

[don_johnson]

artem: krer made a point. you tried to build a case. there is a difference. krer's point is reasonable, but to make the leap to scumdj is not under those circumstances. you are cherry picking here. personally, i am going to sift through those not on the wagon in iso to see what i can come up with, as well as taking a look at llama.

[don_johnson]

^^ 007 has a good case here. i am still rereading but in the meantime,

unvote, vote santos

the seraphim wagon can't seem to get off the ground so whatever.

[don_johnson]

ebwop: dear god, sorry about that. didn't realize it was the hammer. oh well. everyone should be unvoting.

[don_johnson]

sweet.

vote: seraphim

saber: i just surprised myself is all. i initially thought my vote was putting him at L-2.

sera was really avoiding the wagon. going to look back a bit. op, too.

[don_johnson]

it would make sense. who do you think is likely scum(if not you)?

[don_johnson]

who died and made jamesbond mod?

[don_johnson]

i'd like to see the vote analysis. i'm going to work on some iso reads.

[don_johnson]

dj doesn't get nervous, but i find it interesting that you seem to be jumping the "easiest" wagon here. i am "possible scum" to almost everyone it seems. has anyone considered that what artem said might be a slip? perhaps he knows scum can day talk because he is actively doing it. funny how sera is willing to do a 180 in the face of pressure like he is.

[don_johnson]

guys, not sure if you're noticing this, but me with three votes right now would imply that i am absolutely terrible at playing a scum role. not only does this imply that i am going around quicklynching, but it also implies that i am quicklynching my own teammates. given this, i have to assume that at least one scum is on my wagon right now if not both remaining members. i still prefer a seraphim lynch here.

[don_johnson]

^^ weak. your post is ad hom. the wifom i pointed out is relevant. don_johnson never seems to earn townie points and it should be obvious to all that he plays with that he doesn't even try.

you are trying to peg me with a style completely opposite to my own in hopes you can convince someone i am scum.

neither of my votes were well reasoned, in fact, the votes themselves were more scummy than townie if looked at in a vacuum. i.e. if both players hadn't flipped scum then the votes would have been more suspect. you can't have it both ways.

you are putting me in an indefensible position and when i point out the wifom which is the only defense you cry "wifom". i think it is much more likely here that scum avoided one, if not both, of the scum wagons. once again, its a smaller pool of suspects and gives us better odds of finding scum.

[don_johnson]

well, we can certainly afford the mislynch if you guys are doubting me. if anyone wants me to clarify anything before this happens, ask sooner. times a wastin' and when i'm lynched we lose three days.

[don_johnson]

^^ here scummy scummy scummy scummy scummy. here scummy scummy scummy scummy scummy.

[don_johnson]

tick tock.

[don_johnson]

i don't link much. dj doesn't really ever get townie points. i believe you and i shared a game in which i was lynched as town on day 1 with a very poor case.

if you think i bussed my buddies that's fine. you are accusing me of terrible play as scum, and if you look at my scum record you should realize that is simply not how i play. i generally win as scum, out of my three losses, one was sabotaged by a late game replacement, so i really only count the two. but, whatever. none of you seem interested in looking elsewhere for scum so i am not going to waste my time on posting content unless i have something which may be gamebreaking. still working on my iso reads. time is a precious commodity of which i have little.

i don't really understand why you are pushing the strategy of lynching from the obviously larger pool of possible suspects when a smaller pool clearly exists. scum lost two roles in two days with no night phase, to think that scum bussed both of their partners is a stretch that really probably shouldn't be considered until the avoidees have been lynched. there is no night phase so lynching down the line of suspects would(statistically speaking) produce better results than a random stab at the wagoneers. just sayin'.

[don_johnson]

okay. i disagree with you on your suspect list. when i am done with iso's i will post a bit more, but the fact that my wagon isn't picking up steam tells me that either scum is already on, or that they are trying to now avoid. your case is okay, but i think the main problem with it is what i havbe been saying:

my behavior is much unlike that of scumdj. to be snared this soon with what can onlny be construed as terrible late day bussing votes are completely uncharacteristic. but whatever. i will iso your other suspects as well to see if those cases hold water.

[don_johnson]

possible double post:

dtf: way scummier in iso than i thought. i would support this lynch. heres why-

starts off with a weak and pointless vote. applies no pressure and actually contradicts himeself with it by agreeing with the "methodology" of the votee but maintaining suspicion.

iso post 4 reads as scumbuddy advice.

acknowledges sera vote was worthless. easy to cover up under the guise of rvs play, but still, votes should serve purpose.(debatable)

iso 6: comes strong against llama. why no vote?

iso 7: good post. townie points.

iso 9: giant fence sit on seraphim. major distancing from llama. llama's actions are "off". still no llama vote.

iso 10: "lynching lurkers is THE BEST idea."

doesn't vote for anyone for two more posts after saying lurker voting is a good idea and stresses that time is of the essence.

iso 13: votes op. says his "hands are tied". wanted to give op a chance to post. what vote was this on the op wagon? perhaps he was waiting for the wagon to gain steam and popularity before voting?

iso 14: unvotes op. asks for no clarification regarding op's wall post. comments on nothing, simply asks op to stay "active".

iso 15: i didn't fence sit. maybe not with his votes, but certainly with his suspicions of sera.

iso 16: still wants to vote a lurker. doesn't.

iso 17: message to mod. still no lurker vote.

iso 18: suspects sera, santos, llama. wow. he is an excellent scumhunter as he is suspicious of two players who later flipped scum./sarcasm. for some reason he is still not voting a lurker. llama is his number one. where was the llama wagon at at this time?

iso 20: really? no vote on llama, who was his top suspect. no vote on a lurker. no vote for day 1?
oh, and he's suspicious of santos, but he's letting it slide.

iso 22: pushing for Sera lynch while tieing santos, sera together. no vote

no vote, no vote, no vote.

hm. artem, you may be onto something.

unvote, vote dothefandango

would you be willing to lynch him first? if he flips scum you can lynch me tomorrow with no real town detriment. i think he is obvscum after this iso read. my main problem was that i only remembered two of his posts and that earlier one seemed a rather townie post.

doinf TA next.

[don_johnson]

TA

first few iso posts are "pro-town" discussion on timing and lurkers. almost comes off as defense of lurking, but nothing scummy here. lack of anything "in-game" related is noted.

iso 3 is defense of sera/llama. not sure if this is scummy, as he is correct in saying "illogical=/= scum".

iso 4: not sure the reasoning on the santos vote. "competing wagons"?

iso 5: following public opinion.

iso 6: friendly banter

iso 7: pro town post. good reasoning for the llama vote. actually votes. points out the llama/dtf connection as well.

iso 8: friendly banter

iso 9: lumps santos and i together with small defense, but admits its better than something else.

much more of a neutral read here. not alot to go on. his absence coincides with the santos lynch, so it makes it difficult to determine his motivations. is he due for a prod?

artem: i see your point here, and it actually makes sense to me why he is not on the top of your list. i would like him to chime in on recent goings on.

still happy with the dtf vote after this.

doiong seraphim next, although at this point i am probably becoming biased in thinking sera is town after dtf's iso read.

[don_johnson]

krer: please read other games besides the wrestling one if you want to meta me. the phrase "oppurtunistic scum bussing" should be the red flag here. it is totally uncharacteristic of scumdj.

[don_johnson]

you guys complain about my playstyle and then when i hammer out a decent analysis post noone cares. i really don't see the point here. can someone read me in iso and lay out a better case than:

DJ and DTF are pretty much high on my scumlist right now both of them. Since it seems to be between them, I will put my vote on the one who is sooner getting lynched.

[don_johnson]

Ok, after looking at the votes and rereading a bit I am growing more concerned about OP and TheAdmiral. OP continues to actively lurk. ThAdmiral is just gone. I am not sure what to do about either. The case for OP being town based on the initial Sants/OP/Sabre(Datadanne) wagons is very strong. And yet OP continues to actively lurk. (When I say actively lurk, I mean he has minimal participation, just enough to avoid getting prodded and just enough to show he has read at least some of the thread.) I feel like he is taking advantage of the fact that he has been named town. It will be interesting to see if he suddenly shows up today given the following:

Vote: OrangePenguin

i can believe this one. i am really in an indefensible position at this point, so i will field questions but i will not simply acquiesce to my lynch. had dtf flipped scum i would have gladly taken votes, but lynching me today would even out the exchange. i need to continue with iso reads, but in the meantime i have no issues with:

vote: orangepenguin

i think kreriov and artem are town. artem less so because at least two out of three from his suspect list yesterday are town, but his logic is not flawed. his attitude, however, is a bit unfriendlier than i am used to reading from him.

[don_johnson]

I want the DJ lynch, because if he turns town, I have probably misthought something, and need to reevaluate Kreriov, Konowa and Artem before it is too late.
If he on the other hand turns scum, we are in good shape.

I think that OP could as well be scum, but if he turns town we are in no way in better shape with information to get any better idea how to play in later days.

seems to me that there is no real difference here. why are you attempting to make it look as though there is?

[don_johnson]

i would like to point out that OP has not been on any of the three lynching wagons. i agree with krer about his lurking but i am going to iso him for my own benefit. just finished jamesbond and i can certainly draw a connection to both OP and the previously lynched scum. however, a townOP flip would almost certainly eliminate james from my list.

[don_johnson]

Artem: why are you ignoring op? who do you have as my partner and why?

[don_johnson]

377 = deflection. please post your stance on op.

if you think i am scum then you should have more than just a gut feeling and you should be able to tie me to the final scum member. if you want to lynch me then you should at least do me the courtesy of explaining yourself in full detail.

in iso you seem to do quite a bit of defending of op based solely on the fact that you thought his wagon to be scum driven. you also voted santos while stating that you felt that llama and i were scum.

also you stated this:

I think the remaining scum are in {DJ, dothefadango, ThAdmiral}.

ThAdmiral's llama vote and I don't read it as random. If this was bussing, it was masterfully done.

by your logic that means that TA and i are the remaining scum, yet you seem to be defending him here. why is that?

tbh i get a serious town read on you. the only real reason i can think you to be scum would be omgus and i am smarter than that. your statement about the day talking scum seems genuine and your thought process is not too flawed. but i find my question to be extremely relevant and don't understand why now, after all of your hard work, you seem content to lynch me with little to no discussion.

unvote

your reasons for giving op townie points make some sense after reading you in iso, however, why have we lost sight of saberwolf?

if you think i am scum, then you should have me partnered with someone. me asking you to lynch them first should be a null tell as the request flfills both the town and scum win condition. for some reason, you are reading my actions as scummy when in fact they should read null. please think more and discuss more before condemning me.

[don_johnson]

honestly, i am suspicious of everyone at this point. i wasn't even all that suspicious of either llama or santos, they just seemed like good lynches and i believe time is of the essence. you call my post a deflection. but what did i deflect? are their questions i didn't answer?

oh, it must be a deflection because i don't find myself suspicious. the fact that artem refuses to speculate is rather telling to me. he seems to be well reasoned for the most part, but seems uninterested in uncovering scum and simply pushing his lynch through. but whatever.

vote dj

may as well move along. none of you are using your brains here so you may as well off me and figure this out.

artem/james bond/op in no particular order. good luck.

[don_johnson]

ebwop: that should be L-1, for some reason artem's vote is not reflected in the most recent vote count.

[don_johnson]

unvote

fine. i'll lynch jamesbond or op. my issue with artem is clouded. i am mainly upset that he doesn't seem to be looking elsewhere, but it could be that he really thinks i am scum.

in response to the three iso posts of artem's opinion of op:

1: states op is negligent as opposed to actively lurking.
2: thinks op is town because he wasn't on the santos wagon.
3: again, thinks op is town due to santos flipping scum.

2 and 3 are the same. none of these justify op as town based on his own actions. artem has not analyzed op at all. if op flips scum i would lynch artem for sure. if we don't to go for op then i would lynch jamesbond because he hasn't been scumhunting, but rather openly professing that he is willing to wagon just about anyone using the "time is of the essence" argument.

if this drags on, don't be surprised if i revote myself.

vote: op

[don_johnson]

Why am I being lynched again? Because I have been ignoring this game and every other game I am in?

no. your alignment is in question and you are doing nothing pro town.

JamesBond is town. I believe that.

why?

I still don't like Krer ever since he voted me the first time around. I do thing my original wagon was scum driven. I think the scum is in DJ/Krer/Sera.

there are only two left. please detail your suspicions.

I am not confirmed town and I find it interesting that people say that. However, I do believe the scum are once again taking advantage of my absence.

artem has been your biggest supporter. care to discuss how you feel about him?

What am I? L-2 ?

DJ continues to act scummy, his self-vote the latest in a long line of scummyness.

do tell. with 2/4 scum already lynched, how is putting myself at L-1 "scummy"?

Now I have to go check on my other games, because if you do some research, I've been ignoring more than just this game.

^^ pleading ignorance at this stage of the game? i find this scummy, especially considering op is trying to paint my self vote as scummy. but whatever. feigning indifference is almost mirror behavior to a self vote. in fact, i think its scummier than the self vote by far.

[don_johnson]

jb's vote is rather redonkulous.

unvote, vote artem

yeah, you are making too many excuses and your earlier complaint about my question is entirely hypocritical. maybe my wagon is slow because players are wary of lynching another player who is more likely than not(in their opinions) going to flip town.

[don_johnson]

^^ true.

unvote, vote: dj

gotta love the self hammer. good luck town.

[don_johnson]

I was definitely wrong about don_johnson, even though everything about him screamed scum.

isn't that always the case?

good game scum team. i had my suspicions of jb, but konowa glided nicely under the radar. unfortunately, the lurking townies really hurt us. this was certainly a game where that whole dynamic came into play. TA and OP should have replaced.(no offense but noone was really obvtown here, except kreriov.)