Mini 833 - Empire at War(The game is over?)

[BloodCovenent]

Vote: BloodCovenant

Because he stalks me from game to game, I swear.

Oh My God, You Suck!

Vote: Kdub

For obvious reasons... His avatar strikes me as.... odd.

[BloodCovenent]

gotta add to watched topics. I tend to forget this a lot. If I don't add it, i then tend to forget about the game

[BloodCovenent]

Vote: Sajin

since I'm pretty sure he's the only one in this game that I've been in a game with before. And he was scum in that one. Small sample size, whatever, he's clearly scum in this one too.

OMGUS vote?

[BloodCovenent]

Vote: Sajin

since I'm pretty sure he's the only one in this game that I've been in a game with before. And he was scum in that one. Small sample size, whatever, he's clearly scum in this one too.

OMGUS vote?

Did you read my post? It's not OMGUS, it's OMGHWSLG (Oh my god, he was scum last game).

link to the last game?

[BloodCovenent]

Vote: BloodCovenant

Because he stalks me from game to game, I swear.

Oh My God, You Suck!

Vote: Kdub

For obvious reasons... His avatar strikes me as.... odd.

Yeah, I figured I would get at least one RVS vote based on that

At least you should know from our last game that I've had this avatar for a while though!

Anyway,

Vote: Santos

for being last to confirm (I think?).

Well... yea... That game wasn't THAT long ago.

[BloodCovenent]

link to the last game?

WoT Large Theme. Ended about a week ago.

I think you're just mad that you lost?

@MacavityLock - Why are you letting stuff that happened in a previous game bleed into this game?

Yea! >=(

[BloodCovenent]

Well, that would be fine except since Sajin was scum in your last game, does that not make it much more likely he is not in this one?

The last sentence bugs me here.

[BloodCovenent]

Really. Why? Because I am poking fun at Macavity or for some other reason? Just saying it bugs you is not enough.

I just don't like the second sentence. And I was just writing down what was on my mind.

[BloodCovenent]

Really. Why? Because I am poking fun at Macavity or for some other reason? Just saying it bugs you is not enough.

I just don't like the second sentence. And I was just writing down what was on my mind.

To clarify, the reason why I did not like it, was because it was worded oddly. I had to read it several times to understand it.

[BloodCovenent]

But even better is RestFerma.

No, not every question is townie. But most are.

Now that he has talked about my question in particular, I will say it is very townie. (Read the above paragraph. Even if the humor was a bit of an inside joke, the question was a direct logical progression from the conversation.)

I don't like this. It feels as if you are setting scum up for an easy out. "oh he-he, i can't be scum, i asked loads of questions." Point in case, you question regarding so and so beating his wife. Yes, you used an example out of game, Just because you asked me that question, does not mean that I think you are town. It just striked me as odd that you would say questions are a town tell.

I guess what i'm trying to say is, questions cannot be a town tell. Yes, players that ask questions, poke and prod, and apply pressure tend to be town, but a good scum player can manipulate them as well.

[BloodCovenent]

Yeah, I could have shortened it a bit. Not sure if I wish you had said that in the first place. My fingers are tired from all the typing.

What do you think of my idea that RestFermata is using the whole bruhaha surrounding this to cast an opportunistic vote?

I just skimmed his post the first time I read it, and it didn't make much sense at the time, so i'm gonna re-read the whole thread and get back to you shortly.

[BloodCovenent]

Well, that would be fine except since Sajin was scum in your last game, does that not make it much more likely he is not in this one?

Unvote, Vote: Kreriov

This is not a random vote. This sentence just reeks of scummy: you're using obviously faulty logic, first off, and you're posing it in the form of a question so it seems much less obvious. I don't like this.

wait... what? Basically all that Kre said was the likely hood of Sajin being scum, is still the same as if sajin were not in the last game.

FoS:Reck

[BloodCovenent]

@Reckoner - Huh? Not a random vote. Well, then you are DEFINITELY manufacturing a reason for a vote. There is absolutely nothing scummy in that sentence nor in anything else I have said. Either you have not bothered to read the context leading up to it or you are just trying to stir the pot, hopefully to spur discussion. Are you doing this to start real discussion? If not, it is a scum move and should be seen in that light. Whether you are trying to start discussion or not, I still have to point out you fail to say WHAT logic if faulty, much less why. Using pejorative terms like 'obviously faulty' without support is pure scum.

As for putting something in the form of a question, THAT is very townish. Trying to get someone to talk by asking them a question about THEIR action is definitely town! So, as a follow up, why are you trying to misrepresent townish actions as otherwise?

Don't like the bolded. Yes, I agree what you are doing with reck, but I don't like those sentences. It is basically you saying that you yourself are town. I don't like it when people try to say that they themselves are obv-town. Just doesn't sit well with me.

[BloodCovenent]

Well, that would be fine except since Sajin was scum in your last game, does that not make it much more likely he is not in this one?

That's not how probability works. I can't tell if this was a joke or not.

Really. Why? Because I am poking fun at Macavity or for some other reason? Just saying it bugs you is not enough.

This suggests that it was a joke.

As for putting something in the form of a question, THAT is very townish. Trying to get someone to talk by asking them a question about THEIR action is definitely town!

This suggests that it wasn't a joke.

So which is it?

Also, I have played with krer 3 times (this makes 4) and have been scum twice. He had me pegged as scum both times.

So?

1. mac, you're acting blind.
2. regarding bolded - Sajin is using the argument that you had against him, and using it for your benefit. Are you holding that against him?

[BloodCovenent]

Checking in on my iPod.

Re: Kre's statement I meant that using the logic of someone being scum in another game affecting their chances of being scum in this one is horrible logic. I thought that was obvious. I don't necessarily think it's a scumslip but it's a mighty dangerous train of thought to be following.

wait... so your initial post where you voted Kre, you were really agreeing with Kre? And now you are clarifying things, saying that Mac was using bad logic? I really don't like how this is unfolding.

[BloodCovenent]

Hey, sorry! I should have said V/LA in my games but I didn't know it was going to be so much trouble to move into the apartment this year. I'm here, though, and ready to get started.

I understand the logic behind Reckoner's accusation, but I don't believe that Kreriov was being serious.

I don't really like the "asking questions is townie" statement. Not all questions are townie. Imagine this early in a game, before any hint of a claim is suggested.

X: Y, are you the cop?
Y: I refuse to respond, and that is a scummy question.
X: Asking questions is townie.

I know this is kind of a strawman. I acknowledge that, and I am not suggesting that the situation is not comparable in the least, but my point is that whether or not a question is pro-town depends on the question. Taking a statement that might be construed scummy and then placing it in the form of a question doesn't make it any "townier." It does, in fact, take a bit of that air of certainty away from the poster, making him/her less responsible for the ideas presented in the question. In that way questions can be scummy.

Krer, your question, if you were serious about it, was scummy. I think you were joking, so I'm not going to vote you for that reason, but I do believe that your blanket statement that asking questions is townie is a tad scummy. It's kind of squirmy, if you will, trying to find weird ways to justify your past behavior. It's weak sauce, but for now, I believe you're the best place for my vote.

Zwet, this game only has two pages so far. Even if the posts are somewhat confusing, it can't be that hard to come to some sort of understanding or formulate an opinion based on what has happened so far. And if you can't, you can say that too.

Sorry again for being inactive so far. Again, I should be back on track now.

Vote: Kreriov

I like the bolded, that's about it. After realizing what Kre said in his initial question post, I have to agree that it was humorous, in mocking Mac's judgement/logic (and possibly confirmation bias?), it was a serious question that needed to be answered, and it was indeed a fruitful question.

[BloodCovenent]

So basically, RestFerma has been V/LA, comes back and sees I am heavily involved in a discussion. He uses the wiki to pull out something called a straw man argument which he admits DOES NOT apply to this instance, but being so official looking and sounding probably seems to make his argument stronger, so he includes that red herring. He then proceeds to say that if my question had been a statement is would have been scummy, therefor the question is scummy even though he thinks it really was a joke, and votes. Sure sounds to me like he is voting just to vote for someone. He is deliberately taking my question out of context. He does not even quote me correctly. I DID NOT SAY asking questions is townie. I said IN GENERAL asking questions is townie, fully acknowledging that some questions are designed to make people look bad. By completely ignoring the fact that my question is direct logical progression from MacavityLock's vote and reason for that vote, he has shown he is simply scum interested in getting a townie lynched however he can.

I agree with this, RestF's post was very scummy, however I think Reck's was worse. You called out reck, and his response was very scummy.

Unvote:
Vote: xRECKONERx

[BloodCovenent]

@Blood - I do not think I am obv town. I think I have ACTED townie, but I do think that means anyone should assume I am town. I want people to follow my logic, not blindly follow me. I did something that should be considered pro town. Both scum and town and do commit pro town acts. The fact that a pro town act was trying to be cast as not is what I want to draw attention to.

But that's such a stupid move to do. You're painting a target on your back for scum. Yes, it's all WIFOM, but still.

[BloodCovenent]

Also, I have played with krer 3 times (this makes 4) and have been scum twice. He had me pegged as scum both times.

So?

1. mac, you're acting blind.
2. regarding bolded - Sajin is using the argument that you had against him, and using it for your benefit. Are you holding that against him?

1) How am I acting blind? There was the distinction that Krer made that I had previously missed, but we already went through that. Anything else I'm missing?
2) I'm interested in his reasoning for saying that. I didn't see it as being particularly relevant to any of the discussion we were having, so I'd like to know why. Also, why did you answer for Sajin?

1. You know that Kre's question had a purpose, but after a few more posts you pull the "oh, i didn't know I was supposed to answer it because it looks like a joke... what do I do? I'm so helpless act." Just answer the question, which... I don't think you have done yet...?
2.It was completely relevant. I hate it when people put the "why did you answer for player X?" argument, they are fruitless, and lead to nothing. Very rarely do scum partners answer for each other. This isn't a chainsaw defense, or CSD style post. And sometimes, other players can make a better defense for me, then I myself. And no, that doesn't make me a bad player. It's also hard for me to take one player's advice/defense when they have acted scummy, and are under heavy pressure.
3. Non-Random Role Claim : Miller - cops, adjust your radar.

[BloodCovenent]

@Blood Did you lose your ID badge?

I don't know how to answer this... I don't know if I ever had one?

[BloodCovenent]

Also, who are you referring to with "one player's advice/defense when they have acted scummy, and are under heavy pressure"?

No one in particular. Just one thing that I have noticed through games.

[BloodCovenent]

3. Non-Random Role Claim : Miller - cops, adjust your radar.

What made you claim at this particular time? This seems completely out of the blue.

Claim day one, or don't claim at all.

[BloodCovenent]

3. Non-Random Role Claim : Miller - cops, adjust your radar.

What made you claim at this particular time? This seems completely out of the blue.

Oh, I see what you mean. I thought this was appropriote because I was unsure if I should claim during RVS, and I finally made up my mind here.

[BloodCovenent]

@Blood - That is the conventional wisdom. Can you answer Sajin's question? Oh, and to reply to your earlier observation. I do not mind putting a target on my back. I find that I am much better able to discern scummy actions directed at me and since I feel I am fairly good at defending myself, it seems to work. Besides, the point of the game it to have fun. Can't have fun if you don't participate.

This?

[BloodCovenent]

Will read later today, hopefully, if I have time before Inglorius Basterds. I want to read Jebus in iso.

good luck with that.

[BloodCovenent]

ohi, I didn't even realize this was open yet. It was closed for like, 5 days after I got my PM.

Will post, hold on. For the moment,

Vote: Starbuck

[BloodCovenent]

Jebus has redeemed himself.

Unvote:
Vote: Kreriov

I never thought of Kre's beginning post as overreaction, but reading them again according to your idea, they do like like it.

And as to your question towards me jebus, Reck's post, where I thought he acted scummy was here. Where as RestF's was here.

Although I think that Kre did well in defending him self on page two, I can see the OMGUS attitude, and over reaction.

[BloodCovenent]

I'm suspecting BloodCovenant a lot more than Kreriov or RestFermata atm.

FoS: Zwet

[BloodCovenent]

I'm suspecting BloodCovenant a lot more than Kreriov or RestFermata atm.

where are all are you suspicious of RestFermata?

[BloodCovenent]

I'm suspecting BloodCovenant a lot more than Kreriov or RestFermata atm.

FoS: Zwet

FoS was in light of being possible scum with Kre.

[BloodCovenent]

I'm suspecting BloodCovenant a lot more than Kreriov or RestFermata atm.

Or anyone for that matter.

+ Lurker points, now that I think about it.

[BloodCovenent]

I'm suspecting BloodCovenant a lot more than Kreriov or RestFermata atm.

Or anyone for that matter.

+ Lurker points, now that I think about it.

^This was in response to...

This->

I'm suspecting BloodCovenant a lot more than Kreriov or RestFermata atm.

where are all are you suspicious of RestFermata?

[BloodCovenent]

Zwet is scumhunting - something scum zwet doesn't really do all that much of.

can you show a post where zwet is scum hunting? I didn't see one.

and i'll answer after I get back from work Reck. Sorry.

[BloodCovenent]

No need to prod me mod. I'll get a post up tomorrow. They've had me closing the last two nights (including tonight), and i work early tomorrow. will hopefully get an adequate one then.

[BloodCovenent]

I mention scum teams. Well, my scum team (sorry I said 'teams' I meant just one, I got must up with my plurals.) consists of: zwet, Jebus and Kreriov. My gut is telling me that one of them if not more are scum. Why?

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaatttt!

o_____o

[BloodCovenent]

zwet, what is suspicious to you about BC? What do you think about his miller claim?

I don't like his reactions to Jebus entering the game. Coupled with his intent to coast through with his miller claim, I think he's scum.

I'm suspecting BloodCovenant a lot more than Kreriov or RestFermata atm.

Or anyone for that matter.

+ Lurker points, now that I think about it.

^This was in response to...

This->

I'm suspecting BloodCovenant a lot more than Kreriov or RestFermata atm.

where are all are you suspicious of RestFermata?

I was also FoSing zwet because he said...

I'm suspecting BloodCovenant a lot more than Kreriov or RestFermata atm.

then I ask,

I'm suspecting BloodCovenant a lot more than Kreriov or RestFermata atm.

where are all are you suspicious of RestFermata?

He says..

I never suspected RF.

So zwet, when were you suspicious of ANYONE?

[BloodCovenent]

Jebus, can you explain why you see zwet as definitely town? He's barely posted any content, so I don't see how you can be that confident about him.

Zwet is scumhunting - something scum zwet doesn't really do all that much of.

show me where.

[BloodCovenent]

So... what roles are we looking for as scum? Who was in the original death star not part of the Empire? Luke, Leia, Han Solo, right?

+scum points.

I definitely want to read more on the case against BC. I know I didn't like his initial 'what you said bugged me' post. (Casting aspersions without support is very scummy IMO.) I also did not like how he took Jebus initial post as an excuse to suddenly vote for me. He should have stuck to his guns. I will have to see what has developed and read why three people are voting him now. I expect to post about it all in the morning when I get to work. Possible some posts as I read tonight as well. We will see. Its good to be back!

so, first you noted that as a null-tell, or a "meh" type of post. Now, it's scum points for that post? The reason why it bugged me, it was extremely confusing at the time for me. I didn't take Jebus's post as an excuse to vote you, his posts actually made sense. And his case against you seemed rather valid.

What's your opinion of getting reads on me?

quit it with the ego trip. You're just stalling in the game.

Why do you suspect me, BC?

you just feel scummy. Mostly a gut read. But among other things, here.

[BloodCovenent]

that's a cheap gambit santos. So who do you think is scummy, besides zwet?

[BloodCovenent]

As for Jebus and Kreriov, Jebus is a close second for the miller claim and the complete inability to scum hunt or even address pressing issues so far in the game that most of us are trying to figure out.

Kreriov is a distance 3rd...distant, but of course Blood Covenent could be guilty just as well if say zwet is scum, he could be distancing himself from Blood Covenent and vice versa.

....Jebus didn't claim miller... that I know of.

[BloodCovenent]

Jebus, can you explain why you see zwet as definitely town? He's barely posted any content, so I don't see how you can be that confident about him.

Zwet is scumhunting - something scum zwet doesn't really do all that much of.

show me where.

So zwet, when were you suspicious of ANYONE?

these need answered. As does Kdub's questions.

[BloodCovenent]

Good point. Because I might not be going to work tommorrow. My typical V/LA on the weekend might extend to tommorrow (Friday) as well. I don't want a wagon to form and lynch him - or anyone - while I am away with my uninformed vote. I will be back on Monday and able to add my vote where I see fit.

This feels like fence sitting to me.

[BloodCovenent]

I just don't remember you doing that before in this game.

[BloodCovenent]

So I got two people (Kdub, Starbuck) to vote for me mainly on a mistake I made. Then lynch me, I could give a flying ****, you scummers, because for everything I've been talking about is 'crap logic' in your opinions, so basically you're saying you would lynch me based on a mistake. I believe they've just landed on scumdar for isolation posts: my bet on Kdub probably being more likely scum than anyone today. I'm going to take a look at Kdub in 'ISO' as people would say.

@ RECKONER, I've already given my main post about zwet and I am not sure why I should have to reiterate it to make the same point.

Why was I, or am I still scummy?

[BloodCovenent]

That said I am not liking kdubs posts. Kdub- you criticized others for having a lack of content when you have some of the lowest in the thread. How does anyone mistaking the events of the thread make them scum?

Why are you condemning Kdub for scum hunting? He criticized Santos, who is acting scummy. And also dodging questions.

[BloodCovenent]

Vote: Starbuck

That's a fucking stretch to call post 238 an AtE. Grasping for straws, Starbuck?

nope, it really is an AtE.

I'm almost about ready to vote Santos too. Still waiting for answers regarding Kdub's questions.

[BloodCovenent]

unvote:
Vote: dothefandango

Why the he'll not.

Lynch all lurkers.

[BloodCovenent]

Sept. 07 is the new deadline.

[BloodCovenent]

What is your current opinion of BC and Jebus given that you now realize you were mistaken about the claim? Why is claiming miller suspicious to you?

My opinion of BloodCovenent has not gone much farther than my initial reason to vote him. During the talks of Jebus' absence and my vote on BloodCovenent, I mixed them up with who actually claimed miller.

The miller claim is suspicious because you almost have to believe it, and ignore it. But at the same time, how can one person have so much leeway over such a suspicious claim?

There was nothing concrete to be suspicious of BloodCovenent except to vote him acting like zwet.

So there is no suspicion on me? Literally, none at all from you? But there was suspicion on Jebus for "claiming miller," but none on me?

smells like fence sitting.

Unvote:
Vote : Santos

[BloodCovenent]

weaksauce response Mac.

[BloodCovenent]

I WANT SANTOS VOTES NAU

Then why did you unvote right before this?

because a few of us were voting dothefandango, i believe. I think zwet just forgot to revote.

[BloodCovenent]

Gooood, we've finally got a DTF replacement. I anxiously await his thoughts.

@Kre: why'd you ever take your vote off of RF?

here. to vote DTF

[BloodCovenent]

I see. Well, Kre's pretty much a solid town read in my book, so for anyone voting him (is anyone still voting him?) I suggest you lay out some reasons, quick.

what makes you so confident?

[BloodCovenent]

^ This. You will claim at L-1.

^That.

[BloodCovenent]

I always say the same thing when I play with Kise, People tend to lash out at me when I do so.....

[BloodCovenent]

^ BC, I've been in like three games with you and Kise now. I totally understand, haha.

The little bastard tends to follow me around!!!

anyways, back to our own slow droopy game.....

[BloodCovenent]

And I want MOAR girlfriends, but we all know that's not going to happen!

[BloodCovenent]

Santos is still my vote today. He's made far too many slip-ups for me to think he might be forgetful/unattentive/confused town.

I don't see it. What makes his mistakes here more likely to come from scum?

His use of "scum teams" may have been an honest mistake, but there's still a chance it was a legit scumslip. His mix-up of BC and Jebus is strange because he used the miller claim as reason to suspect Jebus, even after he said

he suspected BC but never gave reasons.

Even after his mistake was pointed out to him, he apparently mixed them up again? His play just doesn't seem logical and consistent, which is a scum tell in my opinion.

He said that was only to act/play like zwet would. It didn't make much sense to me either. but, whatever.

[BloodCovenent]

Reckoner votes Starbuck for calling 238 an appeal to emotion (which it is), then unvotes because other people say it's not. Very odd.

I believe you have this wrong. Reck unvoted because both starbuck and I said that it was an appeal to emotion, in detail, starbuck showed how it was an appeal.

Does this clear up my Misrep of Zwet?

Also, glad to finally have your analysis. It was insightful, and refreshing.

[BloodCovenent]

EBWOP:

Does this

clear up

make

my Misrep of Zwet

understandable?

As to why I wasn't trying to misrepresent him. ( I was just trying to get a better understanding of whom he thought scummy)

[BloodCovenent]

Sorry, unexpected V/L, that lasted all day today and probably most of tomorrow. I've got to read the last two pages still. But before that, I'm going to get rid of this miller WIFOM stuff.

Kill: BC

you don't want to hear my other active abilities? You freaking novice!

[BloodCovenent]

freaking retarded. I'm also a jailkeeper. Meaning that I chose one player to target, that player is protected from getting targeted/NK'ed, and they themselves can't submit actions. Should have freaking blocked you, bastard. I targeted Kdub, to protect him.

I'm not apart of Squad 19, I'm an undercover agent, working to find the secrets from princess Leia.

asjdhf;asjkdfhjl; Finally get a good role, and you ruin it for me!

[BloodCovenent]

By claiming miller >.>

I hear it's better to claim miller, in fact, that it's slightly townish to claim.

[BloodCovenent]

I didn't think that I would get day vig'd for claiming miller

[BloodCovenent]

BAM! I knew I was miller