Mini 849 - Return to Smalltown Y - Over

[TonyMontana]

Hi, my name is

Jack

and I'm your hit man. Gangsta to the core, and can't wait to kill me a cop, or better yet that bitch Tina.

[TonyMontana]

Right..

Btw, Pre-game fact: Theoretical possibility of 9 kills in one night.

[TonyMontana]

I might also add that there's a possibility of getting 7 correct numbers in the lottery.

[TonyMontana]

Right, rereading through all the roles, is it me or is this game eminently breakable?

Also, are we go yet?

ash and egruntz are missing.

Also, can't wait to hear how you propose we can break the game.

[TonyMontana]

Yes, yes, let's go the way of civilized people. I believe that Jack's power is a treat we can't ignore.

Mighty fine

treat

. -.-

As for threats, there are bigger ones in terms of roles. Robin with a 33% vigkill, Mary with a 50% vig, David with a quack-kill. And god forbid the cops should have Chloe's power.

[TonyMontana]

In the point of public interest, My pros and cons :
If I was scum: Any kills I'd make would be unstoppable, plus 1 extra kill during the game
I'm not scum: 1 unstoppable kill.

You could use my kill as a double-lynch tho. Then Carmen could steal my power as a safeguard.

[TonyMontana]

B. If I kidnap someone with a one-shot ability, and they try to use their shot (e.g. Jack tries to use his bullet), will they retain that ability (since they were unable to use it) or lose it (since they tried to use it)?

Bad example, as my kill is unstoppable.

mod: that goes for being kidnapped as well, right?

Yes.

[TonyMontana]

(oh, and our top priority is to try to find Tina asap: if Chloe inspires her AND she is also a killing role, there could be 4 kills. 4 unstoppable kills if Tina is Jack!)

Is this correct? I thought she only could double the regular night action, not a cop/tina kill.

mod?

Chloe can double a cop's arrest if she inspires the arresting officer. If she inspires Tina, all of Tina's powers are doubled, except any one-shot abilities.

In any case, Chloe would never inspire me, unless we were both cops. Would be a terrible play (I dont even want that power)

[TonyMontana]

No. You ONLY HAVE 1 ROBOT.

Actually, he has three. Which can all be used at once.

[TonyMontana]

This

I'm confused.

[TonyMontana]

Not confused anymore, but i can see someone else being by now.

[TonyMontana]

Read the rules,

Bruce

[TonyMontana]

I wanted him to figure that out by reading the rules, Tom :p

[TonyMontana]

i agree with snow-bunny on that

and still...fate sux. It has to be controlled. I wont put jack beyond scum and tina=scum, so doesnt erally matter much.

what does that even mean.

And Tina's kill is invisible to investigators?

[TonyMontana]

(V)I

[TonyMontana]

I assume this whole chain is worthless, given the fact that Tina kan killBlock a person while using her ability

[TonyMontana]

Greetings, ladies and gentlemen! My name is

David

, and I have something

very

special planned for you all... Let's not get ahead of ourselves, however, as that's for another time... To get started, I will start with a prediction! Yes, that's right!

I predict that

Jack

is, indeed, Tina! Oh, you think I'm wrong, do you? Well, we'll see...we'll see...

Now, my grand audience, let the show begin!

@Eldricht

why?

What on earth are you expecting eldricht to explain?

[TonyMontana]

I'm fine with the plan.

Vote count?

When you ask so politely, of course.
Wade has 4 votes (Mary Rose, Charles, Chloe, Robin)
Bruce has 2 votes (David, Zombie Tom)
Carmen has 1 vote (Ralph)
David has 1 vote (Bruce)
Four players are not voting (Wade, Eleanor, Carmen, Jack)
7 => ======[]

[TonyMontana]

vote: wade

I'm following the plan, so I don't think you have much choice, carmen -.-

[TonyMontana]

What makes you think Tina had any idea Carmen was a cop?

I agree that Robin got some 'splainin to do. I followed the plan, and so did Carmen. I'm vanilla now.

[TonyMontana]

I followed the plan, and so did Carmen.

That was a lie. I have no idea whether Carmen followed the plan or not.

[TonyMontana]

Moreover, at the moment I guess no one can know if Jack is a nilla or if he is still a killer... saying that he is a nilla could be a good trick: if he is UC now he can now arrest every night not to be suspected. This could be the reason why he lied and then changed his mind in the previous post.

Mod, can we know in which order the night killings take place or is it against the rules?

This will tell us if Jack could or could not have targetd Carmen.

And how do you think order of NKs in anyway relates to me targeting Carmen?

I'll explain the lie, after your results.

[TonyMontana]

Mod: don't forget his question, I want to hear the answer

[TonyMontana]

Mod

, Can Tina roleblock one person, and kill another? (not taking extra role ability into consideration)

Yes

.

[TonyMontana]

Yes, but it's not completely clear if she can roleblock and kill two different people, as opposed to KillBlock one person.

[TonyMontana]

Nobody is making any assumptions, Mary. And nobody has claimed so far, anyway. Lets just get the facts on the table..

[TonyMontana]

what, you think tina wrote that?

[TonyMontana]

*Is way more interested in how Tina killed a protected player*

A few options:
A) Robin/Tina killed Carmen instead of protecting. (Doubt it, as it would be a risky move by TinaRobin)
B) Tina roleblocked Robin while killing Carmen (Most likely)
C) Jack/Tina simply killed Carmen (A likely option to anyone but me, i would assume)

I asked, and the mod has told me that I still have my one-shot kill, btw.

[TonyMontana]

Wow... [face_palm] I'm an idiot, i guess.

[TonyMontana]

This is, unforunatly for me, a good point.

I was not roleblocked. I am afraid Tina had a damn luck last night. Since Tom does not start, I now have to post my report, sorry Charles for anticipating it, but I now realize how bad my position will look. I investigated Bruce, and he was something I will tell as soon as Tom posts his results. But I also protected, and unfortunatly I protected Tom. I guess Tina took her chance and was lucky.

Either I just convinced *you* that you should have protected carmen according to the plan, or you are tripping.

[TonyMontana]

1) She probably didn't write that as it is, but I believe she did leave a note to the mod to post.

There is no good reason to believe, or propose this.

[TonyMontana]

Yes there is.

[TonyMontana]

My confession:
I tried to kill Carmen. If Tina hadn't beaten me to it, Carmen would be dead by my hands.

At night, I asked the mod what apparently nobody else had asked before signing off on the plan:
Will Carmen targeting me, stop my kill? The answer was no.

So I contemplated killing someone of my choice. I chose Carmen, partly because it was the plan anyway, and partly because it was a bad role for the scum to have.

Tina beat me to it. Thus I still have my unstoppable kill.

I, Jack, am a hit man.

[TonyMontana]

The mod has already explained that the kill order is Tina, Cops, Vigs (i.e. me), which explains why I got scooped.

So I guess that kills precede at least carmens ability.
Thus the answer in your quote was misleading at best, as it didn't mention anything about exceptions.

Top of the page vote count:
Robin has two votes (Mary Rose, David)
Nobody else is voting.
Six will finish sombody.

[TonyMontana]

@Mod: If possible could you answer this question: If Carmen had targeted Jack during the night, would Jack be vanilla now?

If Carmen targeting anyone during the night, would her target become vanilla? (Assuming the only action concerning her or her target was that Tina killed her)

Kills take priority over Carmen's ability. She died before she could strip anyone of their powers.

[TonyMontana]

@Jack: Mod already posted the order of night actions. It is actually consistent with the order or events we are reconstructing. Tina shot first, Carmen had no time to act.

Ah.. So did we all just forget to check this, or did people misinterpret the night action order?

[TonyMontana]

@Jack: here is the post from page 8. It is evident that we are speaking of a non-investigative role that is nor role blocking neither redirect.

Order of action resolution:
All roleblocking actions occur at the same time
Followed by all redirecting actions (Like Ralph)
Protections come next,
Then all Kills,
Then all other non-investigative roles (Like Eleanor's)
And finally, all investigative roles.

Yes? That's my point.

The plan was that Carmen would make me vanilla before I could kill her.
If we had looked at the order-list, we would have realized that the plan was flawed at this point.

[TonyMontana]

I interpreted the fact that the vanillaisation happens 'already that night' to mean it was in with the roleblocking actions as far as order resolution went. Obviously I was wrong, and we should have made doubly sure. However, on the plus side, Jack's comments today make me pretty sure he's town. If he was an undercover cop with Carmen, he obviously wouldn't have shot her, and would more likely simply have claimed to have been vanillaised (which is what we were all expecting to happen), keeping the fact he still had an extra shot to himself.

are we sure that he actually shot?

Nope. I do appreciate the confidence, tho

I have a few arguments for me not being a cop, tho.
Firstly, If I tried to arrest someone as cop, they would be dead.
And why wouldn't I? I already would have the perfect alibi to break the chain, i.e. because you wouldn't notice me breaking the chain. Thus I could arrest someone, claim i was vanilla, and keep my kill.

God damn it sounds good to be JackScum :p

Anyway, this doesn't change the fact that I could have easily killed Carmen if I was Tina.
But I think I *would* have conducted myself differently if I was Tina, cause for the sake of town I'm being completely honest about A) my intention to kill carmen, and B) the fact that I still have a kill.

A kill I intend to use tonight as well. (C :p)

[TonyMontana]

Here's an idea:
Use me to triple lynch.

We pick a lynch. And we pick who I kill. Then the magician locks me in his box.

We get a lynch, a kill, and I suffocate so you don't have to worry about me.

[TonyMontana]

There is the option that Carmen was smart enough to do what I did, and confirm with the Mod that she couldn't stop herself from getting killed by me.

In which case, having her submit the arrest would be a smart move.

If only Tina hadn't killed her, we would know, as her arrest would come before my kill.

[TonyMontana]

Quick answers to what concerns me.

But i'd still like an explanation.

that was a lie

I was surprised Jack at the time was not quizzed on this. Lies are in what way beneficial to the town? Its purposely distractful. Why lie claiming you have no idea on the matter and furthermore did the mod not contact you telling you you had/had not been vanillied?

I'm not quite sure why I lied initially. I made the decision to kill Carmen during night, as well as taking full responsibility for it. Tina killing Carmen, took me off guard. And I thought Robin was supposed to protect Carmen. I knee-jerked, then quickly realized that lying wasnt gonna do the town any good, so I immediatly recanted.

@MaryRose. It is possible Jack was blocked and Carmen killed since apparently everyone's actions went through. (everyone who sent theirs in)

I can't be blocked.

@Robin. You asked "Why would Tina kill cops?" Simple. The chances of her being hit are now reduced as she killed a cop last night. Tina is only one person. One fire shot from anyone could result in her death. Something she wouldnt want.... which makes me wonder.... why she wouldnt have snuffed Jack.... However i will at this point note my read on his is prodominantly pro gangsta which i'll provide reasons for as i go on.

Because I'm a one-shot, which was supposed to become vanilla last night, one way or the other. She most likely didn't know Carmen couldn't stop me, and certainly didn't realize that her killing Carmen would actually save my shot. (Why would she, it's quite unorthodox)

Tina took out Carmen for the same reason I tried to kill Carmen. Carmen's power was too scary in the hands of enemies.

[TonyMontana]

I just say this: Jack's analysis of why Tina killed Carmen seems definitely more reasonable than Mary's.

This is because Jack can think like a killer. I have the mindset of a murderer. The instincts of an assassin. The sense of a cutthroat.

I think me needs to look over the plan again, to see what is possible.

[TonyMontana]

Robin tries to vig Ralph (so if I'm blocked from kidnapping Ralph, Ralph will get vigged by her)

Wouldn't that just be giving Tina the option of an extra death?

I'm also not a fan of you keeping kidnapping ralph without him bussing

[TonyMontana]

Vote: David

and a vote for charles' plan.

Would it be such a terrible thing if I killed someone tho? -.-

Vote count as of this very post
David has 4 votes (Robin, Charles, Ralph, Jack)
Robin has 2 votes (Mary Rose, David)
Four are not voting (Eleanor, Tom, Bruce, Chloe)
6 votes FTW.

[TonyMontana]

Almost unstoppable.
Both Tina and the cops can stop me by killing me.

[TonyMontana]

Then kill me tomorrow, if the night actions do not clear me.

Tsk-tsk. Suggesting your own lynch is never a pro-town to do.

[TonyMontana]

i know jack's kill is unstopable, but can we have charles kidnapped him?

is it gonna stop jack?

no offense but he is dangerous even when is see him.

AFAIK, only two things can stop my kill;
Cop/Tina killing my target before me (like last night)
or Cop/Tina killing me.

I think the question is, who's gonna dare having me around the longest, scum or town. I'd imagine the scum starting getting weary if I'm alive n3, and still have my kill.

[TonyMontana]

I'd like to offer my 2 cents and say that the idea that Robin investigated Carmen and killed her based on that investigation is not even worth 2 cents, muvh less any dignified discussion.

Couldn't hurt if the mod spoke on whether the deathscene was anything but flavour, tho.

[TonyMontana]

Woo!

GG everyone.

Fun setup, mod. -.-

[TonyMontana]

Is there a mailing-list or something i can subscribe to, to be notified whenever the next installment will be?

[TonyMontana]

touché