Mini 848 - Second String Muppets Mafia - Game Over.
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Ectomancer Mafia Scum
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/confirmI have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Ectomancer Mafia Scum
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I believe we have 11 of 12. Is that enough to kick things off?I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Ectomancer Mafia Scum
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~Jordan` wrote:vote Ectomancer
what're you rushing for? Are you antsy in fear of the scum we get to put into a paper bag and slam against a wall tonite? YOU MAFIA SCUMMM!
A little too strong?
Reading comprehension for the win.Zorblag wrote:Roles have now been sent out. Please cofirm in thread when you have read and understand your role and the rules. Those who have roles that can communicate outside the game thread can do so until the confirmations are over and Day One starts or until 10:00 PM EDT/7:00 PM PDT Tuesday, September 15th, 2009 whichever occurs later.
-Zorblag R`Lyeh
Also, mind enlightening us as to what this was supposed to mean or accomplish for you?
~Jordan` wrote:<sob> I have such bad luck.I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Ectomancer Mafia Scum
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Spring, if your PM is anti-town, explain how you are not going against your win condition by revealing yourself to the town, even if your PR can result in a pro-town effect? (and seriously, a lack of OMGUS = bad? okie)
Jordan, what exactly is the source of your bad luck? (or more aptly put, what is it that you want us to believe you have interpreted as bad)I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Ectomancer Mafia Scum
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I can't tell, I thought Power Role at first, but I see that Post Restriction could also conceivably fit. Need some clarity here.Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:
I'm pretty sure that PR = Power Role not Post Restriction in this context.ekiM wrote:
You have a choice whether to follow your post restriction? What kind of downside? You won't be able to communicate certain types of information? How much can you tell us here.springlullaby wrote:2)My role is a screw role, I have a PR which is apparently antitown, but my PM hints at possible protown effect if I use it. I've decided that the way I'm gonna play it is as follow: within this post is a cipher, if I decide to use my PR at any given time I'll use the cipher in one of my post so I can ref back to it.
The reason I'm softclaiming now is as follow: a)I'm not sure of the positive effect of my PR which is hinted to be huge b)but i'm pretty sure attracting a kill won't do too much harm to the town since there is a downside to my PR.
You have 5 votes on you Jordan. Do you believe that scum is on the wagon? Which players are the most likely candidates?I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Ectomancer Mafia Scum
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If it was strange to him, he noticed it. Failing to discuss it indicates he is cautious. Day 1, we know nothing yet, why the need for caution Monkey? I also want to express dissappointment in Kirby.MacavityLock wrote:
There's a big difference between commenting and attacking, which is why I said "comment", not "attack". If the whole scenario is strange to you, why didn't you ask about it, like I did?MonkeyMan576 wrote:
Because I take a cautious approach to making attacks early in day 1. I find exaggerating what happens early in the day often leads to mislynches. Also I've been trying to determine the motives for the softclaim, the whole scenario seems a little strange to me.MacavityLock wrote:SL, you need to clarify like now. Does PR mean post restriction or power role? Do you have an anti-town role or anti-town power?
Kirby and Monkey, why did you not comment on SL and her softclaim?I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Ectomancer Mafia Scum
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You have the right to actively defend yourself by demanding an explanation for 'strange', but MCL is right, it wasn't OMGUS. His basis for vote on you also has merit as you seem to be making Jordan's assessment of you out to be a scummy attack, when it was a response to a direct question. That is a bit of a derived method of building a case that a wagon of 5 would seem to demand.MonkeyMan576 wrote:
Just because you're answering a question doesn't mean it obsolves you of having to provide examples. And I don't think the question was directed on the wagonee so much as those who might be less biased.MacavityLock wrote:Vote: MonkeyMan. Jordan is directly answering a question about the people on his wagon. That's not OMGUS. I agree that Jordan should add more on why you and Kirby are "strange", but your calling this OMGUS is scummy.I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Ectomancer Mafia Scum
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Alright, I want to cut Jordan out of this portion of the conversation, so Jordan, don't even address this, let proxies speak. Explain this point of the several you are building against Jordan Monkey. Here is that quote:MonkeyMan576 wrote:Laying hints to his role in his random vote.
Now why should I not believe you are rolefishing by sneaking this accusation into the mix? By including it, you get Jordan to respond one way or another, thus giving you information to read off of, much like town does to get info to lynch scum.~Jordan` wrote:vote Ectomancer
what're you rushing for? Are you antsy in fear of the scum we get to put into a paper bag and slam against a wall tonite? YOU MAFIA SCUMMM!
A little too strong?
I've seen town lay hints to roles in proportion to their numbers, so I don't see how laying a hint would be alignment indicative.
I've also seen Jordan appear fairly recently on the site, and he appears to be a legitimate new player, and I believe I've seen new players more prone to things like 'breadcrumbs'.
Let's assume that you are right, and he breadcrumbed a role with his inclusion of the word 'tonite'. So what?
So you are cautious enough not to inquire into Spring's clear as mud statement, but not cautious enough to know better than to poke around what could be a newbie town PR breadcrumb? I don't buy that.
vote MonkeyI have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Ectomancer Mafia Scum
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Make up your mind. Did he do it doing his /confirm or during his random vote as you stated previously? You look to be scrambling now.MonkeySudo wrote:That's not the post I was referring to, I was referring to his post where he said "I have no luck", I figured he was referring to his role.
Aside from that, you're being quite nitpicky as to what I should and shouldn't be responding to. it's quite easy to build a "case" against someone regarding every little thing you think they should or shouldn't be saying. You are ignoring the other parts of my case as well.
Inconsistency is a hallmark of scum. You ignored Spring's statement that should not have been ignored, and are digging at what you believe to be a softclaim that should have been left alone. Such inconsistencies have led me to catch scum when scum wasn't even aware that they had done such a thing.
I didn't ignore your other points, and in fact mentioned myself that you mentioned 'several' of them. The only way that would be relevant is if I was trying to dismiss the case on Jordan completely, I have not yet done that. I'm focusing on the point you are making that illustrates that you are a scumbag.
Snix, I challenge you to explain the logic that would dictate that a town player ignore a universally confusing statement and in the next moment take a scummy poke at a possible town softclaim. His lack of caution surrounding the softclaim utterly dispels the notion that he is cautious by nature, which is the excuse he gave for ignoring Spring.
Look right here. He is reluctant to touch Spring's softclaim because he's trying to determine the motives for it. Really? Then what makes Jordan's any different?MonkeyMan576 wrote:
Because I take a cautious approach to making attacks early in day 1. I find exaggerating what happens early in the day often leads to mislynches. Also I've been trying to determine the motives for the softclaim, the whole scenario seems a little strange to me.MacavityLock wrote:SL, you need to clarify like now. Does PR mean post restriction or power role? Do you have an anti-town role or anti-town power?
Kirby and Monkey, why did you not comment on SL and her softclaim?Monkey wasn't sure that it was a softclaim and wanted Jordan's response to gauge whether he did or not. Wait a second, I thought he was cautious and tries to figure these things out? And it isn't as though the "bad luck" topic wasn't already broached to Jordan by me and responded to by him. Yet "cautious" Monkey needs to route out a softclaim? I thought he found that exaggeration leads to mislynches? Calling Jordan's first statement a softclaim isn't an exaggeration?
Monkey needs to be lynched.
Snix, you may now present the "very strong logic" of your own.
P.S. - I believe that posting under your alt repeatedly in this game is your method of making it difficult to analyze and follow the thread of your posts. You might make an actual effort at logging in under the name you are playing this game under.I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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I believe that Spring is saying there is no ambiguity in her alignment, but from her initial post we can assume her role is somewhat unusual and she is possibly at issue on how exactly to use it. Take it as an explanation that something odd may happen and she may be at the cause. We can take it as scum setting something up from the get go, or town warning us of a consequence of her actions to help avoid confusion later.MonkeyMan576 wrote:
How are you "clearly town aligned?"springlullaby wrote:Clarification: PR means Power Role.
I'm clearly town aligned.
I'm not answering to any other role related question since with those clarification my last post should be clear enough for now.
I have other comments at this point but I'm choosing to let this game stew for 24 more hours.
Doese claiming power role automatically mean you are telling the truth? Why are you afraid of people asking questions, do you have something to hide?
FOS: springlullaby
Take it as scummy, or take it as neutral. Ask Spring about something else, but I think we've heard enough about the role.I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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I believe that the first time was an honest accident. I believe that subsequent incidents are deliberate sloppiness once he realized the effect it would have.MacavityLock wrote:I'm feeling good about the Monkey-wagon. Ecto's catch of being cautious with respect to SL while not being cautious with respect to Jordan is a good one.
However, the following is ridiculous:
That's a massive stretch. Occam's Razor suggests that not re-logging in under the correct name is an easy and innocent mistake to make. That is, I can't read it as anything but null and it tweaks my scum-dar a bit by saying it's not null.Ectomancer wrote:P.S. - I believe that posting under your alt repeatedly in this game is your method of making it difficult to analyze and follow the thread of your posts. You might make an actual effort at logging in under the name you are playing this game under.I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Ectomancer Mafia Scum
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Heh, well I've seen no discussion of my in-game behavior, so it would be rather difficult to take discussion off of it hey? It was not I that brought your alt into the game in the first place. You logged it in and posted. At the very least, by my bringing up the topic, you might make a real effort to login under one name now mightn't you?
I didn't see Spring criticize anyone after the softclaim. She said she wouldn't answer anymore role related questions. I don't see how you can say asking her why she softclaimed isn't pursuing the role itself when it is clear that the function of the role itself is what made her mention it in the first place.I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Wait, I thought you were the guy who watched for exaggeration? Spring gave no suspicions, and saying that her statement that she wouldn't answer any role related questions was an excuse for her not to answer any questions is an exaggeration.
I'm the one who asked you to stay away from the softclaim, and I haven't based any suspicions on you upon it. The fact that Iamsuspicious of you for other reasons is a motivating factor in herding you away from softclaim questions as I think it is best left alone. That doesn't mean you can't ask her, for example, about my case on you.I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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While functionally you may see no difference, attacking your attacks on Jordan is not the same as defending Jordan. The closest I have come to defending Jordan is to say that as a newer player he is more likely to be inclined to breadcrumb or 'softclaim' a role, meaning his action there at worst would be a null tell, if indeed it was a softclaim at all.MonkeyMan576 wrote:This is getting rediculous. Ecto and Jordan have been defending each other and attacking in tandem the entire day.I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Excuse me? Are you trying to say that attacking Monkey through his case points on Jordan is scummy and that by doing so, you can only be defending Jordan and in a scummy manner at that? You are stretching as far as you can on that one, both of you.Kirbyoshi wrote:ecto wrote:While functionally you may see no difference, attacking your attacks on Jordan is not the same as defending Jordan.Functionallythere is no difference, and functionality is what really matters, imo. Maybe you're being a little too careful that you don't defend him directly, but how is that less scummy than defending him indirectly?I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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I think it can be shown that you had no stated case against Jordan, just a vote untilMonkeyMan576 wrote:
I don't have a double standard. When I suggested caution, I was explaining my overall approach, not a case by case basis. I'm more aggressive on Jordan because I find him scummier. The whole case against me seems to be based on faulty psychoanalysis.MacavityLock wrote:I'm feeling good about the Monkey-wagon. Ecto's catch of being cautious with respect to SL while not being cautious with respect to Jordan is a good one.
However, the following is ridiculous:
That's a massive stretch. Occam's Razor suggests that not re-logging in under the correct name is an easy and innocent mistake to make. That is, I can't read it as anything but null and it tweaks my scum-dar a bit by saying it's not null.Ectomancer wrote:P.S. - I believe that posting under your alt repeatedly in this game is your method of making it difficult to analyze and follow the thread of your posts. You might make an actual effort at logging in under the name you are playing this game under.he listed you as one of the possible scum on his wagon.Now, are you more aggressive because you found him scummier, or because you are engaged in OMGUS? Let's analyze your "case" because it is so flimsy that it is clearly an attempt to get back at Jordan.
1: "laying hints to his role" - show me where that became something that town doesn't do.MonkeyMan576 wrote:That being said, I don't think Jordan has helped his cause since the wagon started. Laying hints to his role in his random vote. Trying to defend future behavior by saying he's a "spammer". Then what I feel is an OMGUS, and (so far) pointing fingers without providing examples. Wagoning is a perfectly valid early game strategy, even without an extensive case, as it can be useful in
provoking reactions and catching scum, but, as said above, I think there are plenty of reasons to be suspicious of Jordan at this point.
2: Trying to defend his future behavior by saying he's a spammer. - In point of fact, it wasn't future behavior he was defending, it was his pre-game chatter. Nice of you to twist his answer to make him look bad if we ignored the fact that he was explaining his earlier behavior.
3: It was pointed out to you that there is no OMGUS, but you really tried to make it out to be one.
I can't tell if you are trying to attack Jordan or defend yourself with the waguns R gud statement at the end there. If defending yourself, I don't know why you are knocking down a strawman that nobody put up.
Pretty clearly evident that you were simply trying to scrape as much mud as you could to throw at Jordan as a result of being named as one of the potential scum on his wagon.I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Dodging.MonkeyMan576 wrote:
What I'm saying(I can't speak for Kirb) is that if Jordan is scum, he may have made a rookie mistake by fingering Kirb and I, two people he knew were town(in a hypothetical Jordan-scum scenario) and that had already voted for him. Furthermore, the undeniable connections between you and Jordan at this point gives the town the possibility to catch two scum right off the bat, wheras the case against Kirb and I is very weak.Ectomancer wrote:
Excuse me? Are you trying to say that attacking Monkey through his case points on Jordan is scummy and that by doing so, you can only be defending Jordan and in a scummy manner at that? You are stretching as far as you can on that one, both of you.Kirbyoshi wrote:ecto wrote:While functionally you may see no difference, attacking your attacks on Jordan is not the same as defending Jordan.Functionallythere is no difference, and functionality is what really matters, imo. Maybe you're being a little too careful that you don't defend him directly, but how is that less scummy than defending him indirectly?
That's a lot of gibberish that doesn't address the point and makes up some new things while at it. How does that even begin to address whether attacking a point in someone's case against another player is scummy? . Where did you even come close to saying that Jordan is possibly newbie scum and as newbie scum would be more likely to pick two town players, you and Kirby? (I can point to MD to demonstrate where he was already warned about avoiding casting suspicion on his partners) Where have you shown where Jordan is more likely be newbie scum than newbie town to even begin looking for scum buddies? And in fact, isn't this scum buddy accusation nothing more than OMGUS distraction to keep from answering to your inconsistent behavior?
Now, you may count this as a defense if you like, but I'll point out yet again that what I've done is dispell the validity of your attacks and explain where the scummy motivations in your actions are evident. An Ecto/Jordan connection, other than that fact, is desperate fabrication on your part.I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Saw you just a few minutes ago Kirby, where'd you go? I was looking for your answer, not Monkey's answer for you. I would also like to hear your thoughts on the case on Monkey. You need to take a stance on it, even if you believe its intention solely to be a defense of Jordan. Also, if you believe Elvis to be misdirecting, what do you think of Monkey's omgus and scum buddy accusations?I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Post 88 dismantles your entire case against Jordan, so you fail at using that as an excuse. That was 2 hours before you made that reply, so you chose to ignore it, or defend against the dismantling, likely because trying to argue will just make it that much clearer as to how weakly you were grasping.
In addition, I don't need to show how everything you've written is scummy, just that you are applying inconsistent rules when deciding what you will pursue and what you will not,and(more importantly), that how and what you are pursuing is more attributable to a scum motivation than to a town motivation, something you still have not explained to satisfaction and are avoiding with your OMGUS case presentedafterJordan listed you as suspicious and your sudden OMGUS case on meafterI voted for you.
You are evolving your story and trying to make it seem as though you are simply expanding on what you said earlier. You aren't. This idea of Jordan being rookie scum too stupid to point out anyone other than town was definitely not put forth by you until just recently. As stated earlier, it can be linked to where Jordan was advised against avoiding his scum partners days prior to this game, so had you put forth this theory back then, it would have been disputed as false.MonkeyMan576 wrote:
Listen Slick Willy, you just keep squirming.Ectomancer wrote:As far as the newbie scum argument, I've already presented my case against him, and the combined scumminess of you and him put together strengthens my case.
This:
Is nothing like this:MonkeyMan576 wrote:What I'm saying(I can't speak for Kirb) is that if Jordan is scum, he may have made a rookie mistake by fingering Kirb and I, two people he knew were town(in a hypothetical Jordan-scum scenario) and that had already voted for him. Furthermore, the undeniable connections between you and Jordan at this point gives the town the possibility to catch two scum right off the bat, wheras the case against Kirb and I is very weak.
MonkeyMan576 wrote:That being said, I don't think Jordan has helped his cause since the wagon started. Laying hints to his role in his random vote. Trying to defend future behavior by saying he's a "spammer". Then what I feel is an OMGUS, and (so far) pointing fingers without providing examples. Wagoning is a perfectly valid early game strategy, even without an extensive case, as it can be useful in
provoking reactions and catching scum, but, as said above, I think there are plenty of reasons to be suspicious of Jordan at this point.
Now I've lined up your points and knocked them all down. I'd like to see you attempt the same by addressing the points themselves and not complaining about being ganged up on.I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Of interest is Kirby. He also ignored ... ure games.Snix wrote:
I cannot explain another's actions in the least bit. I can only explain how I feel about it, and personally it seems like a null tell. SL had a confusing post about her roll and others had already asked for clarification. The entire town does not need to restate the same obvious thing.ectomancer wrote: Snix, I challenge you to explain the logic that would dictate that a town player ignore a universally confusing statement and in the next moment take a scummy poke at a possible town softclaim. His lack of caution surrounding the softclaim utterly dispels the notion that he is cautious by nature, which is the excuse he gave for ignoring Spring.
Actually only I had asked anything at that point. Monkey was 3rd to respond after she posted and I expressed disappointment in both Monkey and Kirby at that time.
It certainly does have footing and I will provide you with an example of someone acting in an inconsistent manner very similiar to Monkey. I have caught scum definitively with this particular tell, so here you go:Snix wrote: Now as for my strong logic:
1. You seem intent on monopolising this conversation in a monkey bash that still does not impress me. It has no sure footing and still seems to be grasping at straws.
This is a relevant quote from that game for those who don't feel like digging through another game:
Game link: start reading on day 2Ectomancer wrote = Still dont believe that Darkdude is scum?
Then tell me why he would discourage discussion about one of our discoveries (the gun inventor), yet encourage discussion about our amnesiac cop. He even goes so far as to ask the recipient of the message to breadcrumb! So you can kill him tonight before he reveals the only result we might have?
viewtopic.php?t=9792&postdays=0&postord ... &start=275
If you don't believe that link and scumtell and successful scum lynch are relevant, let me know so we can debate it. It applies here.
Semantics. Assisting him against the case by Monkey is a by product of calling out a scum.Snix wrote: 2. You are defending Jordan, no matter how you put it. The fact that you deny it just makes it clearer that there is a connection you don't want seen.
Could be from a perspective other than mine.3. Jordan seemed to shut up after you stated that he made a newb mistake, experienced scum hushing up the less experienced? Could be.
Snix wrote: Answer me this; Who do you think are Monkey's scum buddies at this point? Do you think Jordan could be scum?I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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@Elvis - The thought came to me either last game or the game before. I was under medication and the (not quite) accusation was that I could be exaggerating its effects to benefit myself in the game. I was not, but it lead me to think about how people could manipulate outside variables to their benefit in game. Making it harder for people to build cases against you because your posts are scattered across 2 different accounts and the chronology is intermingled is one that would certainly benefit scum, especially if you miss something because it was on the other account.
I don't think anyone but you thinks this is in any way necessary to the case against Monkey, and you avoided the rest just to talk about this? It disrupts the game, there are scummy purposes for doing it, and if he is town, it needed to be pointed out anyhow. Could you go look at that link, how I caught Darkdude, see what my case is now, and see how they mirror each other? and then chat about it.
Wait, please dont say you think my vote is because Monkey called Jordan's response to my question OMGUS. Seriously, because if you do I'm on the Moon and you are on Mars.Snix wrote:Eldritch Lord wrote: (IE Monkey's statement that Jordan saying that monkey is weird is OMGUS when he a. already had a vote on Jordan and b. didn't really push for jordan's lynch anymore than he had.) is a null tell.
Oh, in all this I actually forgot a valid point. Monkey didnt care about Spring's softclaim, until she said she wouldn't talk about it anymore. Then suddenly he wanted her talking about it again.I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Sorry, here's one.
Actually only I had asked anything at that point. Monkey was 3rd to respond after she posted and I expressed disappointment in both Monkey and Kirby at that time.Snix wrote:
I cannot explain another's actions in the least bit. I can only explain how I feel about it, and personally it seems like a null tell. SL had a confusing post about her roll and others had already asked for clarification. The entire town does not need to restate the same obvious thing.ectomancer wrote: Snix, I challenge you to explain the logic that would dictate that a town player ignore a universally confusing statement and in the next moment take a scummy poke at a possible town softclaim. His lack of caution surrounding the softclaim utterly dispels the notion that he is cautious by nature, which is the excuse he gave for ignoring Spring.
It certainly does have footing and I will provide you with an example of someone acting in an inconsistent manner very similiar to Monkey. I have caught scum definitively with this particular tell, so here you go:Snix wrote: Now as for my strong logic:
1. You seem intent on monopolising this conversation in a monkey bash that still does not impress me. It has no sure footing and still seems to be grasping at straws.
This is a relevant quote from that game for those who don't feel like digging through another game:
Game link: start reading on day 2Ectomancer wrote = Still dont believe that Darkdude is scum?
Then tell me why he would discourage discussion about one of our discoveries (the gun inventor), yet encourage discussion about our amnesiac cop. He even goes so far as to ask the recipient of the message to breadcrumb! So you can kill him tonight before he reveals the only result we might have?
viewtopic.php?t=9792&postdays=0&postord ... &start=275
If you don't believe that link and scumtell and successful scum lynch are relevant, let me know so we can debate it. It applies here.
Semantics. Assisting him against the case by Monkey is a by product of calling out a scum.Snix wrote: 2. You are defending Jordan, no matter how you put it. The fact that you deny it just makes it clearer that there is a connection you don't want seen.
Could be from a perspective other than mine.3. Jordan seemed to shut up after you stated that he made a newb mistake, experienced scum hushing up the less experienced? Could be.
Of interest is Kirby. He also ignored Spring, but I'm not certain he even read it or realized he might want to respond to it. (Scum with blinders worrying more about their response than what is actually happening in thread). In that post he did a bout of sucking up to me "Ecto's right", with the same assertion that Monkey did (Jordan made a soft claim).Snix wrote: Answer me this; Who do you think are Monkey's scum buddies at this point? Do you think Jordan could be scum?
Now it strikes me that I didn't see a softclaim coming from Jordan, but you cant just let a comment about bad luck go by, so you ask. As far as a softclaim goes, what would he be softclaiming? "Oh the bad luck, I got a scum role."? Realize here that scum are still chatting while this is going on. What do you think they would have had to talk about? That's right, a soft claim by Jordan. They would know he isn't claiming scum and would certainly be interested in what he is hinting at. So it is little wonder that Kirby mentioned it and then nobody talked about it, until Monkey breaks it out as a reason for his vote on Jordan. Coincidence?
And then consider after Kirby attempted a light defense of Monkey and the question turned to Kirby, he stopped by this forum, but didn't respond. Perhaps he was late to dinner, or perhaps he just needs more time to think? I didn't take a screenshot, so I have no evidence this occurred, so take that one with a grain of salt. I know though.
Do I think Jordan could be scum? Not likely should Monkey turn up scum. He would have little reason to pursue a softclaim. Speaking of Jordan, a Monkey/Kirby scum pair would actually seem less likely as they were the two he chose as suspects from his wagon and I don't have any particular faith in Jordan's scum hunting ability. Beginner's luck? If he turns up right, I'll give more respect to gut in my future games.I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Here's the other
@Elvis - The thought came to me either last game or the game before. I was under medication and the (not quite) accusation was that I could be exaggerating its effects to benefit myself in the game. I was not, but it lead me to think about how people could manipulate outside variables to their benefit in game. Making it harder for people to build cases against you because your posts are scattered across 2 different accounts and the chronology is intermingled is one that would certainly benefit scum, especially if you miss something because it was on the other account.
I don't think anyone but you thinks this is in any way necessary to the case against Monkey, and you avoided the rest just to talk about this? It disrupts the game, there are scummy purposes for doing it, and if he is town, it needed to be pointed out anyhow. Could you go look at that link, how I caught Darkdude, see what my case is now, and see how they mirror each other? and then chat about it.
Wait, please dont say you think my vote is because Monkey called Jordan's response to my question OMGUS. Seriously, because if you do I'm on the Moon and you are on Mars.Snix wrote:(IE Monkey's statement that Jordan saying that monkey is weird is OMGUS when he a. already had a vote on Jordan and b. didn't really push for jordan's lynch anymore than he had.) is a null tell.
Oh, in all this I actually forgot a valid point. Monkey didnt care about Spring's softclaim, until she said she wouldn't talk about it anymore. Then suddenly he wanted her talking about it again.I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Why exactly would you do that? I've not seen anything Jordan has done to appear town today, and if I don't turn up Mason, how the hell would me being town clear Jordan? The primary method I have of determining that is if Monkey shows up as scum, because I really doubt he would be prodding at a 'softclaim' of a scum buddy.Snix wrote: If Ecto comes up town I wont believe Jordan is scum at this point.
You really need to keep your scumdar up andactually pay attention when I say that an attack on Monkey's attack is not a defense of his target!I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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In the framework of his argument, I think you are correct, but in general you are not. I've already said that I've seen Jordan posting in MD prior to this game (didnt I?), so once I saw him here, I could have quickly identified him as easily manipulatable and be using a passive defense to bias his emotions favorably towards me. It wouldn't be hard to do and he would of course be the townie that I would attempt to bring along into endgame with me so long as he isn't some annoying role.Eldritch Lord wrote:That isnotmy point, my point is that given your reasoning, youmustmake that assumption in order for it to make sense. If you don't then, regardless of denial of the fact, Ecto's defending Jordancannot, in any way, incriminate him.
So there is a potential scum motivation, but contrary to what is being asserted, it would be more likely to clear Jordan as town than implicate him as a scumbuddy were there to be an Ectoscum. (No, I'm not scum) Annoying to have to make good arguments for people because they can't do it themselvesI have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Well I tend to agree with Monkey's thought here (even if likely self-serving). A strong case is great, but it doesn't erase even weak ones. Adel likes to have at least 2 competing wagons each day, and I don't think that is a bad idea. Monkey's is good, Jordan's is a non-starter, and mine has votes but no actual case (yes I realize I'm being dismissive).Eldritch Lord wrote:
Because in relation to anything I've been able to build myself, your case looks very powerful indeed.MonkeyMan576 wrote:If you don't think the cases are very strong, why don't you try to find your own scum, rather than lynch those that are willing to put themselves on a limb trying?
If I have a case against someone, I will say so.
I'd like to see what else you have, even if weaker in comparison.I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Listen to what you're saying there honcho.
I believe that Monkey and myselfAfter both parties (Jordan-Ecto VS. Monkey) feel they've exhausted the other and are satisfied with the limit of the debate would be the ideal time for me to post my own cases.the parties involved andareare asking you for your other cases. I really don't think that you want to attempt to argue that wewehaven'texhausted the argument.I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Why would giving scum an opportunity to be at a defined position on a wagon be a bad idea? Still, I don't think that requesting at L-2 is what is scummy. Here's what might be scummy Monkey, you actually were after an L-4 claim. You were appealing to players on one wagon to join another for the sole purpose of forcing a claim. Well, you only had an L-4 case. You need tobuildto an L-2 case to ask for the claim. That's what I think is the issue.I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Let's play a game!
If I had a 2nd vote:
It would be on Kirby, regardless of MonkeyMan's alignment.
Your turns!I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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I'll put you down as 2nd vote on Ecto.I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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We can argue over the merits of having multiple, independent (not necessarily competing) cases presented if you would like. I dont see you have a winning argument though. Our stream of consciousness isn't a singularity. We can follow more than one idea thread at a time. There is no need to avoid other threads even if we were to already know which we plan to follow to an end today.
I'm also calling you out for hypocrisy for accusations of deflection, and then moving your vote off into a different direction before Monkey gave his claim. What else could both Monkey and I have been deflecting from except a claim from him or a hammer? So why would you assist this apparently suspcious deflection by helping it in a greater manner with the removal of your vote, and then actively postpone a claim by saying you would prefer to wait for more from DDD?I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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This statement isEldritch Lord wrote:I was kind of on the same boat as Snix, just waiting for someone to do something that I legitimately identify as scummy. Ecto and Monkey are both definitely still on my radar, but I can't pin them down beyond cases that make way too much inference.entirelyinconsistent with your very recent insistence that we stay focused on the Jordan/Ecto vs Monkey situation. If you were waiting for someone to do something scummy, why were you opposed to getting additional cases that would present that opportunity?I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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/facepalmI have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Game at L-1, a case size of maybe 2, 3 if I'm being generous, and roughly 25% of the game has been absent for 90% of the time. Clearly not an optimal town situation for ending the day.Eldritch Lord wrote:The fact that I wanted to stay focused on your cases was because nothing better had presented itself, and switching focuses without a catalyst seemed pointless.
I can only discern one motivation for insisting we keep all talk confined to the case that needs only 1 vote to end the day, and that is toget that vote.
I explained that we were not in an optimal situation to end the day, so a rush to do so is more likely to be scum motivated than town motivated.
Have you had an epiphany?I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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My mistake, L-2.
Question: If you were waiting for more, and Monkey had said he thought L-2 the optimal time to claim, why didn't you ask for it? Why did you unvote after he got to L-1 without asking for it? Is your case on DDD so powerful that it negates the case you voted for against Monkey? If not, why did you drop your pursuit of Monkey's case if you cant pin down either one of us? I base this assertion on the fact that pushing Monkey's wagon to a claim was the next logical progression in that pursuit.
However, looking at this, I think your failure to pursue Monkey to claim is likely town motivatedif Monkey turns up town. If Monkey turns up scum, I'm going to take this as evidence of a possible scum partner. I don't believe there is a rush to lynch Monkey to test that theory, but I want my opinion on it available. Right now I think I'm going to give you a town lean as your actions individually can be regarded as scummy, but collectively the tells contradict each other.I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Cant argue with the assessment or the critiques Elvis. Throwing in the kitchen sink can be a bad idea as it often presents an easy to knockdown strawman. My fault. You'll just have to understand that as I was trying to read Monkey, and found that I had to constantly crosscheck both loginsand making sure I had the chronology correct, the more he did it, the more it looked like something he may have done by accident originally, but was doing more often (purposefully) rather than trying to correct it. I should have just stated a demand that he stop rather than mention that scummy motivations could certainly apply to those actions.
So we have some ties, here's what I see:
Monkeytown - EL likely town
Monkeyscum - Kirby likely scum - EL likely scum - Here I would likely test the EL alignment first due to the possible tie below.
ELscum - Snix possible scum based upon Elvis spotting a possible scumfluffle between the two.
ELtown - says nothing about Snix
Not a tie, but Kirby could be scum all on his own.
If you missed the argument as to why these ties exist in my head, it was written. If you need help finding them, speak out.
EL - if scum is likely to quickhammer, why wouldn't you hold Monkey at L-1 and let them do it? I'm good with a 1 for 1 trade regardless of role.I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Well as a rule I would usually agree with you. I believe that is if you depend solely upon the claim to save the lynch. When you have competing wagons that may in fact be a better lynch come to the fore while pressuring for the claim I think that it could be prudent to weigh our options.
I'm wrapped up in one case strongly, so I always have to account for some bit of negative bias, a lack of objectivity when I gauge the possibility of being right.
Spring is a good mediator. I've played with her before, and she has good judgment. (last game named all 3 scum including myself)
We evidently all consider her to be neutral, or in my case slight town as evidenced by her not being in consideration at all for lynch.
I'm going tounvoteand back us down from L-1 and listen to what Spring has to say. I already know who I would lynch and Monkey is just one of the available options.I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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He's subscribing to the "I Agree" portion of this poll. The problem with these polls is they ask these questions in a fishbowl. This is the Ocean and there is more to consider when deciding upon a lynch than their claim. Like the state of the rest of the game for instance.
viewtopic.php?t=2872&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=0I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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I agree with you. If you are vanilla, dont be pulling a bs claim to be countered. I also know of occasions where I wouldn't divulge my true role even on pain of lynch. This idea thatnobodyshould claim vanilla, including vanilla is ridiculous in my estimation.I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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You are absolutely right. That is the clearest cut case of buddying that I've ever seen.Ectomancer wrote:
Of interest is Kirby. He also ignored ... ure games.Snix wrote: Answer me this; Who do you think are Monkey's scum buddies at this point? Do you think Jordan could be scum?
vote ecto
It is simply amazing how you built a case on Kirby all by yourself!I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Charter, whenever you are ready to defend your assessment on me, I'll be happy to destroy it.
3 of your *points* against me are scum pair speculation based upon the actions of another player, and that was all by page 3.
1 of your points is against the alt's issue, which has already been discussed ad infinitum and criticized by a number of other players already. I see of all the points that could possibly actually be made against me, you chose the easy strawman andneveractually addressed the case on Monkey, did you?
Finally, your "Ecto is so scummy" post.
Let's see, MM is at L-2 and very little in other cases has been made aside from Jordan's (who I know is a big nub). L-1 followsEctomancer wrote:Let's play a game!
If I had a 2nd vote:
It would be on Kirby, regardless of MonkeyMan's alignment.
Your turns!the very next post.
I suppose you would like to argue that trying to establish where other players stand than on the main case is scummy?
Oh and hey! It's more buddying with Kirby! I'm sure he appreciates that special brand of loving.
Whatreallycracks me up is your almost certain move had I agreed to lynch my second target is that you would have switched from an accusation of buddying to one of bussing. Neat trick. Take my 2nd suspect, accuse me of buddying with them, then vote them after I had removed my vote from Monkey and stated that I was awaiting other assessments before making a decision, when it is almost certainly obvious that Kirby is my man on deck.
Oh, by the way, theonlytime you can vote when someone calls you out on not voting isafterthey said it. So your argument is bunk trash. The only thing you could say there is that by that point in the game I should have placed a vote and not doing so is scummy.
Except I shouldn't and it isn't.
unvote[/i]I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Caffeine, methamphetamines, whatever it is quit doing it. You don't even remember that you accusedcharter wrote:
Strengthens that ML is your buddy. What is interesting about it? Do you agree with my assessment or not? I don't like how you throw out your opinion on the subject of ML, but don't explain it at all, and ignore everything else I said in my post. Looks like you're just interested in what I have to say about ML.Kirbyoshi wrote:I think it's interesting how easily you condemn ML for what seems like simply guilt by association.meof being ML's buddy, not Kirby.
You totally blew through the game, maybe reading, but not putting much real thought into it. Now you can't even keep your accusations you are throwing around straight.
Back up and try again and actually take the time to think about what you are writing about.I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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whoops bad tagunvoteI have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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The only way he makes a 'link' of you being ML's buddy is that after he decided ML and I must be buddies, he didn't like your post, decided that was 3 scum so tossed you in as a scum trio. Never did he make any accusations of buddying between the two of you. No links or accusations whatsover of collaboration at all. The direct accusation of buddying betwen ML and anyone was me. Don't be making excuses when it is clear he isn't even paying attention to his own statements.Kirbyoshi wrote:
Actually, he accused the three of us of being a scum trio.ecto wrote:Caffeine, methamphetamines, whatever it is quit doing it. You don't even remember that you accused me of being ML's buddy, not Kirby.I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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I'm also interested in what in charter's case he found to be "really good points", though I think there is plenty of case to be made against you.Kirbyoshi wrote:Hang on, I just noticed something...
This, especially the last sentence. Most of charter's case against me is bullcrap, yet you say he "raises really good points". This is more buddying-esque than anything anyone charter accused of it has done, and Monkey's been defending himself well enough recently, so...DDD wrote:Well if you're being honest about your role that's phenomenal for us. I've really disliked Jordan's attack on MM lately and MM has been calm and rational about the whole deal. I've got a lot of respect for you charter and you raise some really good points about Kirby so...
Unvote; Vote: Kirbyoshi
Unvote Monkey, Vote: Debonair Danny DiPietro
Monkey, do you find it surprising that charter played up to you so hard in his assessments? Go read back and notice he didn't mention youonceuntil he comes out with this "Monkey is obvtown" statement. Where did he come up with this? He never mentioned you or your case up to this time except maybe to reference the case as a means to accuse someone of being scummy.
Now go read his post again and tell me if it looks to you like he went into this with a "Monkey is town" disposition. How would he know your alignment so assuredly that his entire post was centered around the assumption that you are town? You'll notice he did this without providing a single comment in support of this idea, either in support of your comments, or in opposition to the details of the case against you.I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Ectomancer Mafia Scum
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Holy contradiction Batman! I thought his wagon was scum driven? Now it was town driven?charter wrote:Your play HAS been bad. You got yourself run up to L-1 with it. It wasn't because people thought you were town, I can tell you that much.I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Ectomancer Mafia Scum
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If you read the game, you'll see that I answered both questions. Busy tonight, I'll get around later to what looks like a ton of issues with your posts.charter wrote:Ecto, why did you unvote MM? Why aren't you voting right now?I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Ectomancer Mafia Scum
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Alright, I'm going to shift gears here. Rather than picking apart Charter's game assessments, I want to examine the ramifications in general of his claim, how it can be proven, and a general town strategy to make use of it. If I have it right, he doesnt have to be smart, just alive if he is telling the truth.
Monkey, you said you had experience with it, so looking to hear you expound on the role in games you've played. The more I put thought to it, the more questions come up, and I think that some of them actually shouldn't be answered if he is town. Realize that this is a better MD discussion simply because of the ever present spectre of manipulating the argument to fit the game. Here's to objectivity.
So, if I understand this correctly, charter is claiming that anyone targeting him will die. If town, that is great for us as he can only die by being lynched. We get one more confirmed townie to endgame and we win. But, first we have to confirm charter's claim.
It seems the only opportunity is for a power role with targeting abilities to target charter and then die. Given charter's ability, for most roles that will be akin to trading a rook to save the queen. My hypothesis is that a power role targeting him and dying would confirm him as town. I cant fathom that scum would have that ability, then claim it for some reverse psychology ploy. It would make more sense for it to be a fake claim toavoidbeing targeted.
Now, of course, we have to confirm that the reason the power role died was indeed because of targeting. That should be a trick with scum having some options to play with it.
If we get 2 deaths, we can mostly assume that is what happened, though if a Vig or SK exists and actually made the 2nd kill, we would have to depend upon them then claiming in order to prevent charter from being wrongly 'confirmed'.
If we get 1 death and it is a power role that already softclaimed, it wont tell us anything. If it is a power role whohasn'tclaimed, I would tend to believe scum didn't kill in order to try to prevent charter from being confirmed.
I really don't like the odds on return should we have a town charter and only 1 death. We would have a dead power role and no information gained.
Now here all kind of WIFOM games could be played to trick scum up or trick ourselves up.
We can instruct our 2 softclaims to cast a random die, something like heads target charter, tails do nothing or target someone else. That accomplishes a few things.
First, they haven't claimed, so we don't know if they can target anyone or not in the first place. This adds to the random factor.
Second, if scum doesnt make a kill, hoping to discredit a confirm of charter if a power role dies, it is possible there will be a no kill.
Third, if charter is scum, he wont know who is doing the targeting in order to kill them to 'confirm' himself.
So...basically the best we can do is get the 2 softclaims to agree to flip a coin and target charter if it comes up heads. Even if you cant do it, and Jordan you better not say whether you can or not...
Then hope we get 2 deaths over the next night or two? The cost if we cant is that we will eventually be forced to decide to lynch charter or give the game over into his hands.
Of course we could end up with 2 PR targeting a town charter and both dying. Still, cant dictate who does it either.I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Ectomancer Mafia Scum
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Well there is another softclaim you are overlooking. You are also right, we don't know if they can target or not. Neither does scum. They almost certainly have to kill rather than risk a no kill when possibly nobody could target him even if they wanted to. But it is possible.
I also disagree with your assessment about the worth of a confirmed PGO. They are not simply another townie confirmed. To the mafia, they would become anunkillableconfirmed townie and that is a far different and much more powerful creature. Now is that not right? Or does a target by mafia become a mutual kill? Even then we would force the mafia to take out one of themselves and if they are the last one they wont have that option even.
Here's the main thing I dislike about not finding a good way to confirm or debunk his claim. Scum dont have to get through endgame alive anymore. They just have to make ittoendgame with charter alive. I'd prefer to find a way to turn it back onthemand make them have to figure out how to deal with him, even at the loss of another (hopefully) minor power role.
If there is no way, there is no way but if there are other ideas to bat around, spit them out.I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Ectomancer Mafia Scum
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Yeah, that's the key here. We can't know who is going to do it until after it is done. Whoever has a role that might be worth the sacrifice will have to make the personal decision based upon our discussion here.MonkeyMan576 wrote: But, put in those terms, if we found a player with a claimed night action that was acceptable to lose, and it meant that a scum had to die to kill the PGO, it would be a good tradeoff. But a competent mafia would probably try to kill the player that was targeting the PGO, so maybe not.
Sounds like that's about all there is to cover there really...I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Ectomancer Mafia Scum
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I agree Monkey's claim was early. I believe it was EL, I'd have to check, but he asked me about the conundrum he thought I was in and wondered whether I still supported a Monkey claim. I expected to be able to comment on it, but just a few posts later Monkey had already claimed. It was unfortunate because my answer would have been much the same as yours, we get a claim when there is nothing left but a lynch. I recall this post here because it felt like a taunt. Clearly EL could tell that I was beginning to lean away from a claim from Monkey.
Eldritch Lord wrote:Criticizing me for putting DDD under suspicion puts you in an interesting position now Ecto, do you intend to derail your wagon that you seem to feel so sure about in order to prevent a roleclaim from Monkey? Does my waffling on the situation make me look like a busser? I especially want to hear from you on this, Elvis.I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Maybe you didn't see it because you weren't personally involved like EL was. What he saw was me suddenly side with my target against him. He felt the psychological shift. You "don't know how anyone was supposed to know", but those are Eldritch Lords words, not mine. I didn't put them into his mouth. What I am confirming is that he was right. Ielvis_knits wrote:@ekiM, there pretty much was a consensus that MM would be lynched at that point, at least that is what I thought. Otherwise so many people wouldn't have been voting for him! He was L-1 and I was thinking about voting him. Perfect time to claim.
Also, for the most part, I like Ecto, but I don't like him now saying he was leaning away from getting a claim from Monkey at that point. Since he was hammering away at monkey all day and was still voting monkey, I don't know how anyone was supposed to know he wouldn't have wanted monkey to claim.wasbeginning to feel real doubt about Monkey and his question was a very real and pertinent one. Would I still support a Monkey claim after looking at the fact that we already had 2 PR claims (remember my /facepalm?) and he felt my support for a Monkey lynch slipping? You saw the taunt? So he put him at L-1 to put me on the line, only Monkey claimed before I could give input on it.
Ectomancer wrote:Listen to what you're saying there honcho.
I believe that Monkey and myselfEldritch Lord wrote:After both parties (Jordan-Ecto VS. Monkey) feel they've exhausted the other and are satisfied with the limit of the debate would be the ideal time for me to post my own cases.the parties involved andareare asking you for your other cases. I really don't think that you want to attempt to argue that wewehaven'texhausted the argument.I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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No, and the death description sounds like a Bomb, but I dont think our janitor caused that.
Spring was MIA, hard to get much out of that death.
ML was a serious vote on Monkey. I think he was happy with that lynch, just as he was on Kirby. I want even less to lynch Monkey today. A quick iso on ML and I see an uncomfortable amount of negative interaction between he and Snix, but no fos or vote or any real pursuit of Snix that I saw. Possibly distancing, not sure how much credence to lend that idea. Have to look further.I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Ectomancer Mafia Scum
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Alrighty, I'm voting Snix.
vote Snix
Here he decides that a Monkey case is headed by ML, backed by Ecto, doesnt like the logic and for no plain reason decides to choose Ecto over ML. Note the already present predisposition that Monkey is town.
Here he is changing his reasons for voting for me from a random choice between two people with not strong logic on a case, to what you see below. Sorry, those 2 reasons aren't even close.Snix wrote:FOS: Jordan
He seems to post a lot without much contribution or (in later pages) defense.
He does very little to dissuade the wagon on him but it jumps quickly on to Monkey, headed by Macavitylock and backed up by ecto. Neither of which have very strong logic, soo..
Vote: Ectomancer
Note this bottom part. ML was more responsible in Snix's words for a quick/spastic wagon, but if he was, why didn't ML get the vote and not Ecto? Pointing this out as a lack of a logical explanation for the choice between ML and Ecto.Snix wrote:You seem to not understand, I didn't vote Ecto because he defended Jordan. I voted ecto because he denied it.
I didn't vote Ecto because of point 3 either, it was merely something I wanted a response to.
as far as thequickturnaround on monkey goes, it was quick... ie spastic. Although more so on ML's part than ecto. Ecto just seemed to be leading it.
Here is the interaction between Snix and ML. Notice the line I bolded at the top. Wait a second, didnt he say that ML was the spastic one? Why is he replying to ML saying that Ecto's response was?
How, during all of this, did he magically forget that ML was an integral part of this wagon? Why is he talking to ML as if he is someone not even involved? Did he forget that ML supposedly made the quick spastic move on Monkey?
Jump down to the bottom here for a reminder of him asking loaded questions.Snix wrote:
Alright, let me put it another way: Neither of the sides had much validity, not Monkey's wagon nor Jordan's.Wherein has Ecto been grasping at straws? You certainly haven't provided examples as yet.I jumped on Ecto because his turn around on Monkey seemed spastic and uncalled for.Had I started reading earlier in the day I would have gone after someone else who was on the Jordan wagon. Neither had footing.
Ecto was gunning for Monkey and I wanted to know what he expected of day 2 if Monkey's wagon went through.What is the purpose of the scumbuddy question at this point? Who couldn't be Monkey's scumbuddy right now? For that matter, the same is true of Jordan and Ecto. Making any sort of argument based on scumbuddies right now is awful.
I didn't see the sense in his wagon as I stated above. I didn't think he was scum then andI don't understand this. How would Jordan have passed under your radar, given that he was the big wagon? How does me and Ecto going after Monkey sayanythingwith respect to Jordan? I can't make sense of your second sentence here at all.still don't, just a newb.again
Which is why I'm not voting Jordan. I don't think you guys listen very well.Again, without confirmed scum or confirmed town, I have a hard time seeing how someone's actions can make another person look scummy.
I wasn't looking for a yes or a no in particular, just a real response.Your question was "Jordan seemed to shut up after you stated that he made a newb mistake, experienced scum hushing up the less experienced?" I'm not sure what you were expecting Ecto to say here. That is, how else can someone answer that other than with a yes or a no? Seriously loaded question.
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In case I didn't spell it out in black and white, I think that this is a pretty good case for distancing between ML and Snix. Despite having a stated valid reason for voting ML, he didn't. They had interactions to appear on opposite sides of an issue, but somehow ML went from being what looked like a coin flip away from being a vote, to somehow being spoken to as though he were a 3rd party in this.I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Possibly, but I think that would be part of the distancing. I know I've certainly deliberately choose an opposite path than at least 1 of my scum buddies, even when I could have hammered town. It is better to just be patient and make sure that when the town is divided, you and your buddies are in different areas of suspicion.Eldritch Lord wrote:I feel like Snix isn't scum because he would've jumped on the Monkey wagon when he had a chance (L-1). I agree with Ectomancer in that Monkey is far more likely to be town since ML was riding his wagon so hard, which I can't see as distancing.
I think that the strength of your argument is good enough to keep Snix from being lynched on that distancing charge though.
A thought while I'm on Eldritch Lord, I mentioned earlier that if Monkey is town, I EL is likely town. Monkey took a step closer to being town in my book with ML's flip, EL got a similiar boost as a result.
DDD has given reason to be suspicious, but I'm not certain I would call him scummy. Abrupt responses with decisive action isn't always a scum trait. Playstyle can affect it. I haven't meta'd DDD though.
ML's death last night stands out in one regard, in particular when compared with Charter's claim.
So, I said earlier that ML's death reminded me of a bomb. What itdoesn'tremind me of is a Paranoid Gun Owner. Wouldn't the death scene have said he was shot?
Now, I doubt it was scum that blew up ML, and it didn't seem to have an SK flavor either, though maybe it could have.
So, my thought is that ML targeted someone and died, andit wasn't the claimed PGO.
Scum died, so that explosion likely came from a pro-town player. Does it make sense to have 2 players that can kill scum just by being targeted? Without some kind of mechanism to counter that, I think the very likely answer is no.
You can see where I'm leading to with this:
unvote, vote Charter
One thought: If ML targeted a bomb type role last night, then the rest of scum would likely know who he targeted, meaning there is no reason not to claim?I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Nice link. I didn't recall his schtick.Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:
Your case on charter sucks, because Crazy Harry flavor would be bomb flavored.Ectomancer wrote:ML's death last night stands out in one regard, in particular when compared with Charter's claim.
So, I said earlier that ML's death reminded me of a bomb. What itdoesn'tremind me of is a Paranoid Gun Owner. Wouldn't the death scene have said he was shot?
Now, I doubt it was scum that blew up ML, and it didn't seem to have an SK flavor either, though maybe it could have.
So, my thought is that ML targeted someone and died, andit wasn't the claimed PGO.
Scum died, so that explosion likely came from a pro-town player. Does it make sense to have 2 players that can kill scum just by being targeted? Without some kind of mechanism to counter that, I think the very likely answer is no.
You can see where I'm leading to with this:
unvote, vote Charter
One thought: If ML targeted a bomb type role last night, then the rest of scum would likely know who he targeted, meaning there is no reason not to claim?
unvote
I think we roll with a confirmed Charter from this point.
vote SnixI have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Ectomancer Mafia Scum
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No, I read it. In my estimation 2 scum lie in the following group:
Snix, Danny, elvis, Jordan.
Your interaction with ML felt like fake bickering. It's enough for now. Show me another case, I'll look at it. Elvis has posted way too much for just that brief sentence and a vote. Make me believe it.I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Ectomancer Mafia Scum
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I have serious reservations about your "promoting your own towniness" scumtell.Eldritch Lord wrote:
Promoting your own towniness, get ready to be railroaded.Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:[...]trying to railroad the one player I know is town[...]then I can only consider that egregiously anti-town and respond in the harshest way possible.I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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While I'm not sure what to believe, barring sanity issues, scum is in trouble.
Hold on for a counter-claim, then lynch the investigated.
While we don't need to rush to lynch, I don't see much reason to dally either. I'm interested in the lynch today and the nights events to go even a few steps into speculation land.
unvoteI have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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Investigation comes first. I think you targeting Charter is a fantastic idea.Eldritch Lord wrote:I'm just going to assume the rest of town is smart enough to lynch you DDD and you'll flip scum. Given this:
This game may have a PGO, but DDD defends charter's PGO claim which makes me think charter might be an unblockable killer trying to save his position -- still charter hasn't been very off-base so far with his reasoning, even if he did start a mislynch.
I have a question for the town, what if I assume there is a godfather or otherwise unblockable kill, then I'm done for tonight more than likely.
I could investigate charter, if I, too, explode in a similar fashion then you could consider charter's claim viable. This would be a situation of whose action comes first, the NK or the Investigation.
Or I could just investigate Elvis and hope I don't die but some god-given miracle in the night.I have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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EBWOP: depending upon DDD's alignment.
DDD, none of your arguments overweigh the basic mafia situation we have, which is a claimed guilty on you. We lynch you and base what we do next upon your alignment. Flavor arguments and holding people to previous assessments, especially when you weren't all that town looking in the first place is just grasping at thin air.
Charter, I find it ironic for you to claim PGO and then question what other roles could be in this game, mini or not.
vote DannyI have a degree in bullshit. I have patents on entire lines of bullshit. So don't sit here and feed me a line of bullshit and think that I'm not going to recognize it as one.
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