Mini 904 - Narnia: LWW Mafia (Game Over)

[dybeck]

/confirm

[dybeck]

vote: the others

[dybeck]

Votes should be bolded. Was your "others" vote some sort of gambit?

Is this supposed to be funny?

vote: Heilograph

[dybeck]

Votes should be bolded. Was your "others" vote some sort of gambit?

Is this supposed to be funny?

Why do you ask?

I guess it's just humour that I'm not getting. Never mind!

unvote, vote: kikuchiyo

OMGUS.

[dybeck]

Dammit .... Oh well what ever

What was this comment about, anyway?

[dybeck]

Unvote: kikuchiyo

I'm not comfortable with her having 4 votes already.

Also... L-3 is MILES from a lynch. I'd be exceptionally comfortable with seeing three more people pile on to this wagon to get a hugely early Day 1 lynch because we could be fairly certain that these hypothetical quicklynchers were scum.

And finding 3 scum on page 2 can't be a bad thing.

[dybeck]

Wolf, are you really FOS-ing me for trying to halt a quicklynch of a person on page 2?

Seriously - you need to stop making like there was ever a danger of a quicklynch. L-3 on Page 2 has never, ever led to a quicklynch in the history of mafia.

You may think you're showing yourself to be the saviour of the town, but you're just misrepresenting this entire situation and it's creating a sideshow.

[dybeck]

Also... L-3 is MILES from a lynch. I'd be exceptionally comfortable with seeing three more people pile on to this wagon to get a hugely early Day 1 lynch because we could be fairly certain that these hypothetical quicklynchers were scum.

And finding 3 scum on page 2 can't be a bad thing.

L-7, L-6, L-5 are miles from a lynch, not L-3.

Are you seriously pushing for a quicklynch?

I'll chalk your idea that L-3 is next best thing to lynch down to in experience. However, to say that I'm pushing for a quicklynch is GROSS misrepresentation, when it's very clear that this isn't the case.

Seriously - you need to stop making like there was ever a danger of a quicklynch. L-3 on Page 2 has never, ever led to a quicklynch in the history of mafia.

You may think you're showing yourself to be the saviour of the town, but you're just misrepresenting this entire situation and it's creating a sideshow.

Wait, how did I misrepresent you again?

That's quite a strong accusation to say that I'm "showing myself to be the saviour of the town". Anything to back that up?

FOS: dybeck

Again, just plain twisiting the situation. I've never once said you're misrepresenting me. My accusation is that you are making out that a mini-bandwagon is somehow scummy and that it is in danger of bringing the town close to lynch, when it's doing nothing of the sort.

This could all just be lack of experience, but you're twisting my words and those of others and I don't like it.

unvote, vote: Starbuck

Starbuck, how many mafia games have you played prior to this one?

[dybeck]

You may think you're showing yourself to be the saviour of the town, but you're just misrepresenting this entire situation and it's creating a sideshow.

However, to say that I'm pushing for a quicklynch is GROSS misrepresentation, when it's very clear that this isn't the case.

I've never once said you're misrepresenting me.

lolwut

LOL

That should probably be:

I've never once

prior to post 52 (in which you make the accusation)

said you're misrepresenting me.

Post 52 constituted Starbuck's first misrepresentation of

my

words - up to that point it had only been misrepresenting the general game state.

Sorry... that should have been clearer

[dybeck]

J.R.,

I'm reading your sig but I'm not feeling it. What are your thoughts on the day so far?

[dybeck]

I'm not sure I'd be entirely unhappy about a kikuchiyo wagon, either.

I'd sincerely like to see her vote, and to give a sincere justification for her choice, for starters.

[dybeck]

RBT: What was your question? I am having trouble discerning it.

In essence, what makes a quickwagon a good way to get out of RVS?

Shouldn't this question be to Manho, rather than kikuchiyo? It was Manho that was the spoken advocate of this.

Also, would anyone who disagrees with this argue with the proposition that it's actually worked rather well here? I feel like we're getting some decent reads for such a young game.

[dybeck]

dybeck: You say we are getting decent reads. Could you expand on that a little with some examples?

I'd rather keep that to myself for now. I've said who I've got my eyes on Day 1.

How about some input from you? And how about that vote I suggested you make? Any reason you're not committing?

[dybeck]

How about some input from you? And how about that vote I suggested you make? Any reason you're not committing?

I am participating as I see fit. Which vote are you suggesting I make? I am not sold on Starbuck as scum. I see no reason to "commit" to anything at this point.

Noted.

I don't disagree with the reasons players are voting for Starbuck(PZ's makes sense), but meta tells me to overlook her for now.

Noted.

[dybeck]

Deadline's not until the 26th. I see no need to force a vote right now, not while there's still a bit of discussion going on.

Only votes apply pressure. And only pressure causes scum to have to answer questions. Pressure can tell you whether a player is going to act defensively or remain calm. Pressure can cause slipups. Pressure causes scummates to come out of the woodwork in defence of the target.

The vote is the only tool the town has and it's naive to think it's just used to lynch.

I can see this post causing a week-long discussion of mafia strategy, which really wouldn't be productive. I'd just ask those who aren't voting to bear it in mind (and vote).

Another thing that we might like to bear in mind is that The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe doesn't exactly have a huge Dramatis Personae. This game is ripe for a massclaim. Maybe not today though. Let's see how we get on with a regular lynch.

[dybeck]

most players that lead are usually scum.

except me.

[dybeck]

To me, the way PZ has been leading seems scummy. Maybe I'm just reading too much (or too little) into it.

It's odd that you should say that about Papa Zito...

I voted Heilograph... then Papa Zito voted Heilograph...
I voted Starbuck... then Papa Zito voted Starbuck...
I argued the point that L-3 wasn't close to a lynch... then Papa Zito argued the same...
I questioned Kikuchiyo... then Papa Zito questioned Kikuchiyo...

Leading wasn't a word I was thinking in relation to Papa Zito's style so far... Not sure whether it's scummy or not tbh... anyone got any thoughts?

[dybeck]

I am not sure it's a pattern of scum or pattern of thoughts being the same dybeck, after all a couple people argues that L-3 wasn't a close lynch.

However it could be something to keep an eye on.

I'm not really making an observation that it's scummy either. But I noted it and thought I'd bring it up as a topic for discussion. It's also possible that Papa Zito is an alt that I set up to agree with me to make my arguments seem credible. I'll be on the look out for further evidence of that.

Starbuck. I'm calling you on your lurking. Get back in here and talk to the town, please.

[dybeck]

On dybeck

I'm not sure I'd be entirely unhappy about a kikuchiyo wagon, either.

I'd sincerely like to see her vote, and to give a sincere justification for her choice, for starters.

You say that in Post 106, and she voted in here.

Do you feel it was sincere?

Actually, since you ask, I think you're very possibly both scum.

Starbuck. I'm calling you on your lurking. Get back in here and talk to the town, please.

You've obviously never played with me and know that the only reason that I'll won't be around is because work picked up in some way or another.

For the record, for all of you, I am active duty in the United States Navy. I can't spend my entire work day on the computer and some days, I'm just too plain exhausted to stay awake at night and catch up. But for the most part, I think I'm one of the most active players when it comes to my games.

Do me a favor and check out some of my previous games for my normal amount of activity before you decide to call me out on anything. I do everything in my power to not be a lurker because I despise lurkers. I definitely take great offense to being called one, and I'm willing to bet that someone is going to use this in their "case" on me, but I honestly don't care because most people who have prior experience with me know my opinion about lurkers and know my normal activity level.

Unfortunately though, sometimes my job and life gets in the way of my activity here and I can't control that. So why don't you do a little background checking before you start slinging a word like lurker at me.

Yet you did manage to appear as soon as you were called on it...

I can see absolutely no reason for a townie to react the way SB did, trying to "stop the quicklynch". The only thing i can come up with is if she thought the wagon would go straight to lynch, and i simply can't believe that someone who played 30ish games here believes there is a chance a random wagon without a case or anything is in danger of being lynched when it is at L-3

There's no reason for me to believe that it couldn't happen. You are so absolute in this. It bothers me.

It couldn't happen. It never has happened in any of your 30+ games and it won't happen in any of your future games.

Any semi-decent player could see there was no danger of lynching there, and if there was it would only be good as it exposes scum.

Not a fan of your ad hom.

This is not an ad hom argument. He's taking as a premise that your 30+ games should qualify you as a semi-decent player, concluding that you must have seen that there was no danger of lynching, and observing that the fact that you subsequently made inferences to the contrary stand out as fishy.

[dybeck]

If you do a profile search of my posts, you'll see that the only thing I've done mafia wise in the past few days was set up the game I'm modding. I've had to leave my games by the wayside.

In between you posted to this site 19 times in at least six different threads. Of those 19 posts onlny 5 were in the game you are modding. You also posted every single day.

Why would you get caught in such an obvious lie?? Starbuck - we need a claim from you. A rolename would do.

Seeing as how we're deadlined, would you consider claiming now - to save the town the time it would take to build a wagon all the way to L-1?

[dybeck]

A claim? Am I at L-1?

No. But the rate of contribution is such that it will take a while to get you there. And we're deadlined.

In the unlikely event that you're town, your claim will show it. And the more time we have remaining in the day after your claim, the better. You could really help the town by sharing what you know now, rather than later.

Face it, you've now been caught in a massive lie, in addition to the misdemeanours that were already casting a spotlight upon you.

Thought you might bring yourself to do SOMETHING to help the town?

[dybeck]

If you do a profile search of my posts, you'll see that the only thing I've done mafia wise in the past few days was set up the game I'm modding. I've had to leave my games by the wayside.

So you stand by this? If so, then this is a lie.

In between you posted to this site 19 times in at least six different threads. Of those 19 posts onlny 5 were in the game you are modding. You also posted every single day. I checked that before I voted you.

I checked. You've not just posted in more than one other game thread... but in the scummies nomination thread, in the queues, all over, 19 separate times. Did they slip your mind? Did you think nobody would look?

[dybeck]

If you do a profile search of my posts, you'll see that the only thing I've done mafia wise in the past few days was set up the game I'm modding. I've had to leave my games by the wayside.

So you stand by this? If so, then this is a lie:

In between you posted to this site 19 times in at least six different threads. Of those 19 posts onlny 5 were in the game you are modding. You also posted every single day. I checked that before I voted you.

I checked. You've not just posted in more than one other game thread... but in the scummies nomination thread, in the queues, all over, 19 separate times. Did they slip your mind? Did you think nobody would look?

[dybeck]

Also kiku and dybeck, you guys are jumping all over me, but neither of you have said a word about Sibelius.

Why aren't you asking for his claim?

What's your case against Sibelius? I don't recall you mentioning him before...

[dybeck]

So the question still stands, why are you both jumping all over me about lurking when that guy hasn't said a word?

It's not misdirection. I'm just wondering why he isn't getting the same courtesy that I am receiving.

Because you vanished at precisely the moment people started asking you questions. It looked like an effort to offload the spotlight onto someone else.

C'mon Starbuck. Let's stop playing games. You know full well the difference between lurking and absenteeism. Also, Sibelius hasn't made 19 posts to other threads whilst actively singling this one out to avoid.

@everyone else: Where the hell are you? This is fast becoming the Dybeck and Starbuck show and it'd be great to hear from some of our absentees. Does anyone want to defend Starbuck, for example?

[dybeck]

There are several people getting away with not posting any content here.

Can I try something that might sound odd, with a promise that I'll explain later?

I'd like nobody to state reasons in favour of a massclaim. But I'd like anyone AGAINST a massclaim to say so, with a full argument why they think it would be a bad idea.

[dybeck]

Does anyone have way to keep this game from stalling that is neither a Starbuck claim nor a massclaim?

I think that the problem lies in the fact that I don't have a feel for any single player that strikes me as overwhelmingly pro-town. If anyone feels that they are that player, they should consider taking a lead here. This game is stalling badly and we're on a clock.

There must be a way - but I'm not coming up with it.

If we end up lynching Starbuck, it will be half for the reasons that everyone's stated so far, and half for the lack of a credible alternative option.

[dybeck]

@ bv310, manho, Grandi:

I'm still of the opinion that votes would help, whether or not you have a feel for the current wagons. At least it would give us something to talk about.

[dybeck]

Riceball: how about a full game analysis from you? Or maybe tell us your case on Manho?

[dybeck]

Rumblebuffin

Rumblebuffin! Wicked... we found a scum Day 1!

And they don't have safe claims! Awesome!

This is going to be a piece of cake!

[dybeck]

Rumblebuffin

Rumblebuffin! Wicked... we found a scum Day 1!

And they don't have safe claims! Awesome!

This is going to be a piece of cake!

My guess is that you never have read the books or read them ages ago?

Far from it. I know 'the Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe' like an old friend. I read it first when I was six years old and then over and over. I must have read that book a dozen times or more.

Everyone else - we're looking at no more than a town of nine people here. Beyond a shadow of a doubt we have Peter, Lucy and Susan Pevensie. No mod would omit Aslan. No mod would omit Tumnus, and we have Mr. and Mrs. Beaver.

The remaining two will be some permutation of Professor Kirke, Father Christmas and Edmund Pevensie.

Not freaking Rumblebuffin. Let's lynch this phoney already.

[dybeck]

Wolfram: is there a claim that would have sounded phoney to you?

[dybeck]

Actually, Starbuck, I have a question for you.

Now, presumably, even you'll admit that your claim is not a strong one. I'm sure that you would have felt far more comfortable if you'd been able to tell us that you were Aslan or Lucy, for example.

With this in mind, may I ask you to please consider this post from wolframnhart?

I believe Starbucks' claim. Again I am not going to try and out guess the mod on which characters he put in the game, but her role makes sense to me.

He appears to genuinely accept your claim wholly, even though you're able to offer us a character that has little more than a cameo role in the book.

Now we know you're claiming to be pro-town. I've made it very clear that I don't believe you. But that aside for a sec.

Purely for argument's sake, let's say that you're telling the truth. Do you take his post at face value, and that he genuinely believes your (presumably vanilla) claim without question? Or do you think he's scum trying to bolster his pro-town credentials if you get lynched today and flip town?

[dybeck]

Wolfram: is there a claim that would have sounded phoney to you?

In case you missed this.

[dybeck]

Actually, Starbuck, I have a question for you.

Now, presumably, even you'll admit that your claim is not a strong one. I'm sure that you would have felt far more comfortable if you'd been able to tell us that you were Aslan or Lucy, for example.

With this in mind, may I ask you to please consider this post from wolframnhart?

I believe Starbucks' claim. Again I am not going to try and out guess the mod on which characters he put in the game, but her role makes sense to me.

He appears to genuinely accept your claim wholly, even though you're able to offer us a character that has little more than a cameo role in the book.

Now we know you're claiming to be pro-town. I've made it very clear that I don't believe you. But that aside for a sec.

Purely for argument's sake, let's say that you're telling the truth. Do you take his post at face value, and that he genuinely believes your (presumably vanilla) claim without question? Or do you think he's scum trying to bolster his pro-town credentials if you get lynched today and flip town?

In case you missed this.

[dybeck]

Actually, Starbuck, I have a question for you.

Now, presumably, even you'll admit that your claim is not a strong one. I'm sure that you would have felt far more comfortable if you'd been able to tell us that you were Aslan or Lucy, for example.

With this in mind, may I ask you to please consider this post from wolframnhart?

I believe Starbucks' claim. Again I am not going to try and out guess the mod on which characters he put in the game, but her role makes sense to me.

He appears to genuinely accept your claim wholly, even though you're able to offer us a character that has little more than a cameo role in the book.

Now we know you're claiming to be pro-town. I've made it very clear that I don't believe you. But that aside for a sec.

Purely for argument's sake, let's say that you're telling the truth. Do you take his post at face value, and that he genuinely believes your (presumably vanilla) claim without question? Or do you think he's scum trying to bolster his pro-town credentials if you get lynched today and flip town?

In case you missed this again.

[dybeck]

Actually, Starbuck, I have a question for you.

Now, presumably, even you'll admit that your claim is not a strong one. I'm sure that you would have felt far more comfortable if you'd been able to tell us that you were Aslan or Lucy, for example.

With this in mind, may I ask you to please consider this post from wolframnhart?

I believe Starbucks' claim. Again I am not going to try and out guess the mod on which characters he put in the game, but her role makes sense to me.

He appears to genuinely accept your claim wholly, even though you're able to offer us a character that has little more than a cameo role in the book.

Now we know you're claiming to be pro-town. I've made it very clear that I don't believe you. But that aside for a sec.

Purely for argument's sake, let's say that you're telling the truth. Do you take his post at face value, and that he genuinely believes your (presumably vanilla) claim without question? Or do you think he's scum trying to bolster his pro-town credentials if you get lynched today and flip town?

Having reread this, it all seems polite and straightforward to me. I wonder what your real reason for not answering it is.

[dybeck]

BTW Bv310 is not the scum you're looking for.

[dybeck]

I've done nothing but actively hunt scum today and, having caught one lurking and lying, she's come up with a decidedly dodgy claim and then stopped answering any more questions.

It's killing me that we're so close to letting this one off the hook.

[dybeck]

the case on starbuck is bad, and dybeck is the scum behind it. but as kiku said, we need starbuck's flip to get more information, like starbuck flipping town makes dybeck more scum, but starbuck flipping scum makes dybeck more town.

Talk is cheap, Manho.

Either bus your scumbuddy or stop trying to improve your townie credentials by repeatedly saying things that you don't intend to follow up with a vote.

[dybeck]

Actually, Starbuck, I have a question for you.

Now, presumably, even you'll admit that your claim is not a strong one. I'm sure that you would have felt far more comfortable if you'd been able to tell us that you were Aslan or Lucy, for example.

With this in mind, may I ask you to please consider this post from wolframnhart?

I believe Starbucks' claim. Again I am not going to try and out guess the mod on which characters he put in the game, but her role makes sense to me.

He appears to genuinely accept your claim wholly, even though you're able to offer us a character that has little more than a cameo role in the book.

Now we know you're claiming to be pro-town. I've made it very clear that I don't believe you. But that aside for a sec.

Purely for argument's sake, let's say that you're telling the truth. Do you take his post at face value, and that he genuinely believes your (presumably vanilla) claim without question? Or do you think he's scum trying to bolster his pro-town credentials if you get lynched today and flip town?

Starbuck. I'm sorry if I came across nasty before. I wonder whether you'd see your way clear to answering my previous post while you're at it.

Since several people are waiting to hear why you think I'm top suspect, I promise to answer all your points by way of a quid pro quo.

[dybeck]

Don't think a lynch will be happening anytime soon, we need to hear from a few players and Helio's replacement as well.

We only have four days until deadline. So I hope it happens

sometime

soon!

[dybeck]

Manho: suppose, for argument's sake, that this new wagon on you builds up steam. At what point will you claim?

[dybeck]

Manho: suppose, for argument's sake, that this new wagon on you builds up steam. At what point will you claim?

L-1. and it is not a good time, 3 days before the deadline, to start another wagon just for a claim. you won't have enough time to put me at L-1 and back to the starbuck lynch.

This doesn't really answer my question. I'm asking you, for arguments sake, to assume that lots of people want to join your wagon in the next 24 hours, say.

At what point, in time, or in number of votes, will you claim?

[dybeck]

Actually, Starbuck, I have a question for you.

Now, presumably, even you'll admit that your claim is not a strong one. I'm sure that you would have felt far more comfortable if you'd been able to tell us that you were Aslan or Lucy, for example.

With this in mind, may I ask you to please consider this post from wolframnhart?

I believe Starbucks' claim. Again I am not going to try and out guess the mod on which characters he put in the game, but her role makes sense to me.

He appears to genuinely accept your claim wholly, even though you're able to offer us a character that has little more than a cameo role in the book.

Now we know you're claiming to be pro-town. I've made it very clear that I don't believe you. But that aside for a sec.

Purely for argument's sake, let's say that you're telling the truth. Do you take his post at face value, and that he genuinely believes your (presumably vanilla) claim without question? Or do you think he's scum trying to bolster his pro-town credentials if you get lynched today and flip town?

Also, Starbuck, I wonder whether you're yet in a position to answer this question that I posed a couple of pages back?

[dybeck]

I'm just going to post my brief notes and observations from my readthrough. I did feel that there was way too much distraction with the whole L-3 debacle that Starbuck initiated, so I'm really going to avoid commenting on it much. Starbuck is very overdefencive. I find that to be a common scumtell (I know many people may disagree, but meh).
Her Vote against Dybeck in 158 is so OMGUS it hurts. Don't like the weak attempt to distract with Sibelius just a few posts later. That name came out of nowhere and had nothing in the post to make me want to look at him. It really seems like she's grasping at straws.
It was a horrible claim by Starbuck. She really needed to put out more flavour rather than stringing it along. It did feel a little like she was trying to guage how the wind was blowing before giving any more details. Especially considering it was a vanilla role, I don't see what value there is for a townie to hold back.

Overall Starbuck seems a little too stubborn about the L-3 debate for it to be a real scumtell, but there have been enough other things to warrant the wagon in my opinion. I'm a little leery about how aggressively her wagon has been pressed by Papa Zito, then Dybeck, and Kiku.

I think that Starbuck overshadowed much of the other players. I'm not really going to go into my town reads yet, because I want to focus on who to lynch before we hit deadline. There are two others that really caught my eye and I also need to comment on Manho.

BV310 also caught my eye. Crawdad made a good catch (post 72) on BV310's Starbuck inconsistency.

BV310's scumlist has two potential scum on opposite ends of the spectrum. That said, I could see Papa Zito
bussing a scum Starbuck as hard as he did. I wouldn't say that PZ has been leading at this point. He's just been pushing the Starbuck wagon very hard. That's aggressive, but not really leading as I would define it.
I'm obviously concerned about his lack of desire to vote. He sure seemed to find Starbuck scummy, but he doesn't throw down a vote until he decides to "trust Dybeck". If Starbuck turns town, I could easily see BV310 trying to setup Dybeck for a fall tomorrow. When he gets called out for parroting, his response still seems like he's parroting various themes that have already been brought up and then brings up a new suspect.



Riceball is scum. He spends most of his time arguing about irrelevant facts and doesn't really bother to look for scum. It may be more obvious to look at his posts in iso, but I noticed it just reading through. Look at 144 (iso 10). He's just trying to fit in and make conversation without really scumhunting. Riceball is still scummy in 194 (iso 13).
I'm not really going along with the town here, but I really think this guy is scum. You guys should really join me.

Vote: Riceball

i think starbuck is town, but she is today's lynch.

Really? Why would you want to lynch someone you think is town? I had to reread him in iso to really figure this out, but I think I understand where he's coming from now. I do actually think Dybeck is townier than Starbuck, but I did like what Manho pointed out in post 254. I'm not sure that scum would be so ballsy as to make that statement this early on day one anyway (like I don't think they'd jump on someone to quicklynch at L-3.) I get some of the suspicion on Manho, but I'd really like to understand why he's singling out Dybeck for the "shit wagon" on Starbuck. Papa Zito was also aggressively pushing for her lynch as is Kiku. Why is Dybeck so important?

This is a great post. I'm not sure that there's any real appetite for a Riceball lynch here, though. I know he's not someone I've found scummy.

[dybeck]

One thing I want to point out real quick is that Kiku goes on and on about how I'm scum and that Rumblebuffin is my safeclaim, but when I claim, dybeck says in Post 29 that

Rumblebuffin! Wicked... we found a scum Day 1!

And they don't have safe claims! Awesome!

So which is it? You guys obviously have some things mixed up in the mafia QT .

To get this straight - your Rumblebuffin claim is terrible. You must realise this. You've claimed a walk-on cameo role from the book who has absolutely no bearing on the plot of the story, which even your most ardent supporters must admit is a tremendously weak claim.

I don't believe anybody is suggesting that this is a safeclaim provided by the mod. There are some (like Narninian) who believe your claim. The rest of us believe it is a poor attempt at a claim that you scraped together from wikipedia.

[dybeck]

I'm just going to post my brief notes and observations from my readthrough. I did feel that there was way too much distraction with the whole L-3 debacle that Starbuck initiated, so I'm really going to avoid commenting on it much. Starbuck is very overdefencive. I find that to be a common scumtell (I know many people may disagree, but meh).
Her Vote against Dybeck in 158 is so OMGUS it hurts. Don't like the weak attempt to distract with Sibelius just a few posts later. That name came out of nowhere and had nothing in the post to make me want to look at him. It really seems like she's grasping at straws.
It was a horrible claim by Starbuck. She really needed to put out more flavour rather than stringing it along. It did feel a little like she was trying to guage how the wind was blowing before giving any more details. Especially considering it was a vanilla role, I don't see what value there is for a townie to hold back.

Overall Starbuck seems a little too stubborn about the L-3 debate for it to be a real scumtell, but there have been enough other things to warrant the wagon in my opinion. I'm a little leery about how aggressively her wagon has been pressed by Papa Zito, then Dybeck, and Kiku.

I think that Starbuck overshadowed much of the other players. I'm not really going to go into my town reads yet, because I want to focus on who to lynch before we hit deadline. There are two others that really caught my eye and I also need to comment on Manho.

BV310 also caught my eye. Crawdad made a good catch (post 72) on BV310's Starbuck inconsistency.

BV310's scumlist has two potential scum on opposite ends of the spectrum. That said, I could see Papa Zito
bussing a scum Starbuck as hard as he did. I wouldn't say that PZ has been leading at this point. He's just been pushing the Starbuck wagon very hard. That's aggressive, but not really leading as I would define it.
I'm obviously concerned about his lack of desire to vote. He sure seemed to find Starbuck scummy, but he doesn't throw down a vote until he decides to "trust Dybeck". If Starbuck turns town, I could easily see BV310 trying to setup Dybeck for a fall tomorrow. When he gets called out for parroting, his response still seems like he's parroting various themes that have already been brought up and then brings up a new suspect.



Riceball is scum. He spends most of his time arguing about irrelevant facts and doesn't really bother to look for scum. It may be more obvious to look at his posts in iso, but I noticed it just reading through. Look at 144 (iso 10). He's just trying to fit in and make conversation without really scumhunting. Riceball is still scummy in 194 (iso 13).
I'm not really going along with the town here, but I really think this guy is scum. You guys should really join me.

Vote: Riceball

i think starbuck is town, but she is today's lynch.

Really? Why would you want to lynch someone you think is town? I had to reread him in iso to really figure this out, but I think I understand where he's coming from now. I do actually think Dybeck is townier than Starbuck, but I did like what Manho pointed out in post 254. I'm not sure that scum would be so ballsy as to make that statement this early on day one anyway (like I don't think they'd jump on someone to quicklynch at L-3.) I get some of the suspicion on Manho, but I'd really like to understand why he's singling out Dybeck for the "shit wagon" on Starbuck. Papa Zito was also aggressively pushing for her lynch as is Kiku. Why is Dybeck so important?

This is a great post. I'm not sure that there's any real appetite for a Riceball lynch here, though. I know he's not someone I've found scummy.

I should probably clarify this. I think it's a great post because I like the level of detail and I think more contributions like this would really help the town - even though I don't 100% agree with all the conclusions.

[dybeck]

so everyone is starting new cases when deadline is just 3 days away? lynching the claimed vanilla townie is almost a standard procedure

there is no way we can do the following things: settling into another wagon, getting a claim from the lynchee, unvoting after the lynchee claim a powerrole, getting to another wagon and repeating the same procedure, and finally lynching someone, in 3 days.

so please get back to starbuck's lynch.

@Manho: People who hint at the fact that they have a power-role, without saying anything committal or counterclaimable, always get my back up. Claim, or claim not. There is no try.

@HackerHuck, Sibelius: Who's scum? Starbuck, Manho, both or neither?

[dybeck]

Then this...

B3) A lynch will occur when one player has the majority of votes for the day.

And this...

B6) If a lynch is not reached by the time the deadline arrives, there will be no lynch.

Rather contradict each other when it comes to the deadline, but I see what the mod did here.

Starbuck: I think you're confusing a 'majority' with a 'plurality'. It's seven votes to lynch - or it's a no lynch.

[dybeck]

OK. What we require is a Starbuck lynch. I've said this until I'm blue in the face. Everyone got bored of hearing it.

This isn't going to happen until manho claims. Let's face it, his claim isn't going to be as bigger pile of baloney as Starbuck's is.

unvote, vote: Manho

This is L-1. Rest assured that I will take a very dim view of anyone who piles on the hammer vote before we've discussed Manho's claim.

[dybeck]

But Starbuck, you did LIE about your absence. That's wholly different.

[dybeck]

If you do a profile search of my posts, you'll see that the only thing I've done mafia wise in the past few days was set up the game I'm modding. I've had to leave my games by the wayside.

In between you posted to this site 19 times in at least six different threads. Of those 19 posts onlny 5 were in the game you are modding. You also posted every single day. I checked that before I voted you. Its why I voted you: because from my pov you have been "ignoring" this thread.

Starbuck. You lied. And you got caught out. Your failure to address this big porkie is the main reason I was so keen to wagon you to a claim. Your fake claim is the reason you should be lynched today. It's a policy of mine to lynch all liars. And it's one that's paid off more times than i can say.

[dybeck]

That, and the various points at which you twisted the words of others, your desperate attempts to raise wagons on half the people in the game, and your incredibly weak and reluctant claim.

[dybeck]

This is a pickle... Rumblebuffin or Susan... Rumblebuffin or Susan...

Hmm...

unvote, vote: Starbuck

[dybeck]

To be clear:

I ultimately realize it is each players right to make up their own minds in regards to counterclaiming, but if manho is fakeclaiming, I don't think the real Susan should come forward. If I am not mistaken, Susan was the older girl, which would make her more likely to have vig and/or investigative powers(I think the young one would be the healer/protector). Therefore, if manho is lieing, the real Susan already has a guilty investigation to work with(manho) and can claim at a later time as necessary after they have had some time to work. If Susan turns up dead, we lynch manho. If manho is Susan, then that will play out in its own way.

I think this is a really odd thing to say. If there's a real Susan, of course they should claim. I don't think the role implies any particular power, and could be strong or weak, for all we know. Susan was obviously a Pevensie, but far and away the least pivotal to the plot. Frankly, I'd have believed a VT Susan claim every bit as much.

And we'd have a guaranteed scum caught - which is kinda the point of the game...

[dybeck]

I'm not sure I understand the logic behind a partial claim. Don't we want all of the information out there before we get a counter and before we go to night and the mafia have a chance to talk?

Maybe if we were in two minds about whether to still lynch Manho despite the character claim, a full roleclaim would help make our minds up. Personally, the character claim is enough for me. I'd rather not feed mafia any more info than we already have. Susan may well be a power role, but not a textbook doc or cop claim, so could be something extremely useful or extremely not-very-useful.

I don't think I need to know as much as scum do.

Dybeck and PZ: How many games have you played where one scum is lynched day 1 and town wins? It is certainly not an overwhelming majority imo. If manho isn't Susan and Susan exists(which we have no reason to doubt at this time), then we already have one scum caught and the real Susan knows it. Either she counterclaims later with possible night action results, or she counterclaims now possibly jeapordizing her ability to work at night. I'd rather her stay hidden for now. If she turns up dead then we auto lynch manho. There is really little benefit to outingher other than lynching scum on day 1. I don't believe this is utterly necessary as the town win condition encompasses much more than one single correct lynch. Anyhow, its not our decision. In short, if manho is fakeclaiming then he is already caught. Lynching him today may give scum enough information to cripple town's night abilities. We have enough information to lynch. Let's do it.

I kinda get your point. But a counterclaimed manho lynch gives us 100% chance of getting scum today or tomorrow. Whilst I'm extremely happy with a Starbuck lynch, even I'll admit that it can't possibly be a 100% surety without some rock solid proof. And I foresee that a Starbuck mislynch would be, frankly, a disaster.

In any event, this whole conversation is academic since it's entirely in the hands of the hypothetical 'real' Susan to make up their own mind about it.

The more we talk about it, the more scum can narrow down who this increasingly hypothetical real-Susan is, and avoid them for nightkill.