Mini 954 ~ Mafia at the 11th Hour (Game Over!)

[semioldguy]

Hello. I've got some reading to do over the next few hours. If there are pertinent questions I should be aware of or that I should address before or while I am reading, post them and I'll be sure to check back as I am catching up.

I see that my vote is currently not in use... I'll have to do something about that shortly.

[semioldguy]

Seraphim is due for a prod.

Vote: Porkens

@Porkens
Why would you ever be willing to lynch anybody on day one? It looks to me like an excuse to put off scum hunting. Mislynches are certainly bad on day one; they are bad every day.

I am honestly surprised more votes have not been generated in this direction.

@VP Baltar
What are your thoughts regarding the possible alignment of Porkens? You have questioned his play and appear to be suspicious, but not even a hint of a vote in that direction, why?

@Debonair Danny DePietro
Could you give an opinion on a suspect of yours other than Tony Montana in this game? You voting on an absent Tony this whole game has also enabled you to do nothing for much of the day thus far.

@Jahudo
What are your thoughts of Porkens as a potential competing wagon?

I dislike the speculation that is running around about potential powers being unlocked and disagree with any plan of trying to unlock the powers of players. There is no assurance of how each power is unlocked or that the ability that gets unlocked is even beneficial to the town or that the player even has control over it.

This seems like it would be a delay tactic, beneficial to scum, because they can move their vote around more or less freely without ever having to settle on any suspicions to make a real vote. We should be voting scum, not people we think might be town. We shouldn't create a situation where a necessary last minute scramble for a lynch target is more likely to occur.

[semioldguy]

I'm really not feeling the Nikanor wagon.

[semioldguy]

No I haven't played with him before, nor is that the extent of my read on him.

@Gammagooey
If you're going to be voting him anyway why don't you just do it now? What reason is there for you to wait?

[semioldguy]

Who would you feel you'd be potentially giving the hammer to?

Nikanor has previously been at L-1. Debonair Danny DePietro and Percy both could have hammered and didn't. I am not going to vote Nikanor. Nikanor is not likely to self-hammer. Seraphim isn't here unless he picks up his prod (in which case the reason you are waiting to vote is no longer relevant since he would have to post in order to bring down a hammer). Which means the only person who's hammer you'd have any reason to fear is VP Baltar's.

[semioldguy]

I believe that long day ones are detrimental to the town. I have to data to support that, but it is my feeling.

I think the a long day is more likely to be the effect rather than the cause. The town doesn't do poorly because there is a long day, the town has a long day because it is doing poorly. The greater the length of the day to me indicates that a town is generally not doing well (barring things such as investigation results and the like).

I, personally, can RARELY scum-hunt effectively on day one. Sure there's the occasional gift scum who puts his neck on the block, but usually it's just noise to me.

I find that it is not as difficult to scum-hunt on the first day as many make it out to be.

[semioldguy]

In theory it could take as little as a real life day or two, but in practice I doubt something like that would ever happen. Not only do players have to all agree on who is most likely town, but they also have to agree with the plan in general and then all get online in the same day or two, which is never a certainty. It would take more time than you suggest it might get done in.

[semioldguy]

How forthcoming is it?

[semioldguy]

I'm also opposed.

[semioldguy]

Bring it!

[semioldguy]

If he doesn't, your question dodging is scummy but not definitive. Why

aren't

you answering, btw?

I don't see which question(s) I am dodging. Could you point me in that direction?

[semioldguy]

I'm really not feeling the Nikanor wagon.

Care to share why? I don't think Tony mentioned him once. The only interaction I could find was indirect at best. Tony Voted me when I started in on Nik. Interesting. In fact, I can't really find the ultimate Lurker hunter {nik} coming after Tony at all here either. I found a few times where Nik goes at DDD for going at Tony, but nothing in the other direction.

I'm also opposed.

Thus I put my FoS on you and you told me to bring it. Well, it's brought. This oughta' be fun...

If I would have cared to share why, I would have. I thought that Nikanor was town, clearly I was incorrect. I don't generally like to share reasons why I find people townish unless comparing it to something I think is specifically scummy, as doing so changes what I can get from the read.

As for the stuff about Tony, that isn't something I can answer. You should have asked Tony when he was still around. Or if you were concerned about Nikanor ignoring me, you should have asked him that, not me. These are simply not questions which should be directed at me.

As for my thoughts on Debonair Danny DiPietro; I don't have much of a read on him and currently am leaning very slightly town. I'd still like him to address my question and to hear his thoughts on any suspect other than myself.

@Debonair Danny DePietro
Could you give an opinion on a suspect of yours other than Tony Montana in this game? You voting on an absent Tony this whole game has also enabled you to do nothing for much of the day thus far.

[semioldguy]

I don't know what you'd expect. If you are going to make a case on Tony Montana, that's fine, it doesn't lose any validity just because he isn't here any longer, but to expect me to be able to answer for him or to respond with the answers is just dumb.

I'll claim if anything happened from L-1 when Vi returns.

Don't you have to be at L-1 first? ~Vi

[semioldguy]

Don't you have to be at L-1 first? ~Vi

...I suppose so. I just looked at the most recent votecount and saw that I'd been voted twice since. Didn't account for d3x's unvote and revote.

[semioldguy]

Okay Vi, how about now?

Once again: Don't you have to be at L-1 first? ~Vi

[semioldguy]

lol... ::sigh::

I thought I was being clever this time. Instead I'm just bad at keeping track of my own vote count and am feeling quite unclever.

[semioldguy]

Vote: Percy

[semioldguy]

Yeah.

[semioldguy]

@jahudo
Now... this coming from a slight-extremely inebriated semioldguy (with Microsoft Word Spell Check... extremely and inebriated both had to be corrected... twice) Why is VP Baltar a better vote than a vote for me? There is a good reason for asking this and since I know I'll forget in the morning I'll just come out with it now: how convicted in your vote are you?

I mean... what happened between your vote for me and your vote for him which made you want to change your vote?

76.3% chance I'll still be interested in the morning to hear an answer to that.

Plus 24.7%.

[semioldguy]

Lol... I'm good at math.

[semioldguy]

You're in luck! We have some very appetizing wagon options available today. Perhaps I could interest you in one of the premium selections, a very fine and brand new Percy-wagon. It's the best wagon on the market right now. I can put you in this wagon today for the low down-payment of a single vote. Whaddya say?

[semioldguy]

Relation to Nikanor and his wagon.

[semioldguy]

@Jahudo
You can't look for yourself?

I have received a power. Due to the wording this is a power that can potentially happen to either alignment. So if someone has this power again later this information could be useful to the town.

I can wipe the vote clean. At such a time that I do this, I will get to choose one person in the game and his vote will be the only vote to count for the day, essentially allowing that player to choose who the lynch is on his own.

The subtext of my ability includes that if I were to have known partners I would not be able to select any of them with my ability.

[semioldguy]

So are you going to use this power? And if so, is there anyone not willing to lynch you. Maybe Cobalt, but he's mostly a wild card.

I am not going to use the power for the sole purpose of saving myself. I don't really see what the point would be in doing that if I'm just going to be a lynch the following day anyway.

I don't have time at the moment as I am just leaving the house, but I will respond regarding my view of Percy when I can.

[semioldguy]

Letting yourself die if your town when you can prevent it isn't good for the town.

My ability doesn't prevent my death, it will most likely just delay it.

[semioldguy]

No. I cannot give it to myself.

[semioldguy]

What makes you think you are on the right track?

[semioldguy]

Percy was trying to pull momentum away from the Nikanor wagon while still remaining highly suspicious of him. Looked like he was covering his bases.

@Porkens
I don't percieve my ability as being helpful to the town since I believe I will be lynched anyway even if I use it, whether that be today or tomorrow. Mislynches become more costly the further into the game you get. If a mislynch is going to happen it is better that it happen earlier instead of later.

The case against me is largely nothing I as a player am responsible for and it is largely based around the way Tony Montana and Nikanor both acted (neither of which I have any answers for you other than to say that I think the case is dumb and not based on scum tells or real scum hunting at all). Which makes me feel that neither I nor my ability will be able to prevent the lynch until the majority of the game pulls their heads from their rear-ends and starts looking at things that are there instead of things that aren't.

[semioldguy]

Refusing to prevent one's own death and killing oneself are not the same thing. If someone is pointing a gun at me and threatens to shoot me if I don't move and I refuse to move which results in me getting shot it is not the same as if someone is pointing a gun at me and threatens to shoot me if I don't move and I pull out my own gun and shoot myself first.

If it takes my own vote to lynch me, then I was not going to be lynched in the first place. Additionally, by having someone other then me hammer myself, the town stands to gain more information and I would not deny the town that potential information by self-hammering.

[semioldguy]

The case against me is largely nothing I as a player am responsible for and it is largely based around the way Tony Montana and Nikanor both acted (neither of which I have any answers for you other than to say that I think the case is dumb and not based on scum tells or real scum hunting at all). Which makes me feel that neither I nor my ability will be able to prevent the lynch until the majority of the game pulls their heads from their rear-ends and starts looking at things that are there instead of things that aren't.

That's not entirely true. You were against the Nik wagon yesterday for largely unexplained reasons, weren't you?

Two things. (1) I did not say none of the case was against me, I said that it largely was not. (2) "unexplained reasons" would qualify as things that are not there (a.k.a: reasons that are not there). Again, try looking at what is there rather than focusing on what isn't.

Don't look for specific actions or inaction to tell you what is scummy. There is not a single action that is always indicative of scum. Look for the motivation, it's much more reliable.

Yes, I was against the Nikanor wagon yesterday. No, I didn't not go into to detail as to why. Yes, I was wrong about Nikanor.

[semioldguy]

Exactly. When someone is against a wagon on scum but doesn't explain why, it's scummy.

I disagree.

[semioldguy]

I think your opposition to Nik's wagon is the heart of your wagon or do you not believe that's the case?

I do not believe that is the case. If that is the crux of people's points against me, then they have very weak cases.

[semioldguy]

Your claim that something is scummy with no explanation as to substantiate why that something is scummy doesn't cut it.

[semioldguy]

Lynching me would be a mistake.

If you were trying to bait me into using my ability to save myself by making an ultimatum, you were not successful. But if you would like to take my hammer in your hands, you've got it.

[semioldguy]

In case the previous post was not clear. I have given Percy the ability to choose today's lynch.

[semioldguy]

Well, you were. I guess it's L-2 now by the vote count.

[semioldguy]

Jahudo... does that mean you actively used your ability or did it trigger automatically?

[semioldguy]

I suppose the hope that the use of my ability would be straightforward was handily crushed.

[semioldguy]

I am in favor of Debonair Danny DePietro stepping in if he needs to. To me it sounds like Nikanor gave him an ability when he hit L-1 knowing that Debonair Danny DePietro was against the wagon on him and might be able to save him with it (I'm not quite sure I understand how the ability works). But if this is the case, it sounds like a power that scum might not be able to give to their buddies, which is another reason Nikanor never claimed anything about the ability. This makes Debonair Danny DiPietro likely town in my book.

I fell that Jahudo's power makes him slightly more likely to be town as well. Otherwise it'd be a pretty ridiculous power for scum to have in lylo.

I would be in favor of Debonair Danny DePietro stepping in and taking over Percy's vote if needed over Jahudo's (though it likely won't be needed since it is probable that it will achieve the same end result).

[semioldguy]

I am in favor of Debonair Danny DePietro stepping in if he needs to.

And what circumstance do you think he would need to intervene for?

If Jahudo and Percy are unable to come to a consensus.

[semioldguy]

Proof of ability is not proof of alignment. It really bothers me when people make the leap to think someone as more likely town just because they used an ability they claimed to have.

[semioldguy]

I also don't understand the switch from players to cobalt. The case on cobalt makes as little sense to me as the case on me did.

[semioldguy]

Someone whose username begins with the letter P. They are my three top suspects.

[semioldguy]

@sog- Did I miss a Pom case out there somewhere? The only real mention I found from you is...

Exactly. When someone is against a wagon on scum but doesn't explain why, it's scummy.

I disagree.

Would you care to give more analysis re: this, plz?

Could either or both you explain why it is scummy?

[semioldguy]

Someone whose username begins with the letter P. They are my three top suspects.

I agree with d3x. If you think I'm scum, would you please elaborate on why? It's hard to defend myself when I'm not sure what I've done.

What you meant was that it's harder to slip up as scum when you don't know what you've done.

[semioldguy]

The Nikanor wagon seemed reasonable, yet you opposed it. But you never explained why.

If you were town and had good reasoning to appose the wagon, you would've explained it

, in order to derail it. But you didn't explain your opinion. So it seems likely that you didn't have much reason.

And the only person who would want to oppose the wagon, a reasonable wagon without explanation would be Nikanor's scumbuddy.

The bolded is bad logic.

Additionally, why would town explain? When I explain that I am against a wagon as town it has never stopped the wagon and just gets me lynched the next day anyway for being against a wagon. If I believe that explaining is going to both get me and the person I am against lynching lynched, why would I want to explain?

The underlined is a huge jump to conclusion and also bad logic. Town do not know who scum are.

[semioldguy]

Umm...

1. I didn't say it was scummy. I don't have a strong read on Pom atm and would like your perspective {unless you are talking outta' yer hindquarters, in which case it's scummy }.

2. If ScumPom's fishing for a case to defend against, then how is that what you may be doing in p483?

Why do you want to know why I find something scummy, but at the same time not be asking why someone else finds the same thing scummy? Do you think that what Pomegranate claims to be scummy is scummy?

I'm more likely to talk out of my ass as town, which I guess would make it a null tell. If you want to make the case that it is anti-town or unhelpful, then that's okay, but I disagree that it is scummy.

Why does or should Pomegranate feel the need to defend herself right now? (Pomegranate, feel free to address this as well)

She only has one person even mention suspicion of her and no posted case against her, why is she threatened enough by this to feel like she should be defending herself?

[semioldguy]

...maybe I'll get another 11th power!

(probably not)