Mini 976: Purgatory Mafia Game Over

[ZazieR]

Vote Animorpherv1

How come you're last to confirm?

[ZazieR]

vote: hp[leaves]

I remember losing to you in a game a while ago and I'm still angry. Plus, I think I've only seen you be scum, so no use breaking a pattern.

Haha, no. I thought you were talking about mini 797, but it was you who were the scumbag, while hp was town XD

@Ani
In what way did you confirm the first time then?

[ZazieR]

@Ani
In what way did you confirm the first time then?

I heard he was found standing on his head and juggling fish with his feet while a pair of seals applauded. All while screaming "confirm, confirm, confirm".

Which, as we all know, is not the correct way of doing things.

<< The head says it all

[ZazieR]

Although everyone was

probably

asked to confirm in the same way, I can imagine how this might draw a little too close to quoting the mod.

What are you talking about? Ani doesn't need to quote anything from the mod.

[ZazieR]

I'm toying around with claiming my role. How do people feel about this with no further information?

The correct question is why you'd toy with the thought.
At this point, I say that I disagree with it. But I do want to hear your response to the above.

Also, will a nameclaim be of any use to us?

You tell me. Why bring it up when you don't share your opinion?
I say no. I've seen the opinion that it helps with fake-claims. Disagreed there. For three reasons of which one will be kept a secret as it's the real assistance against fake-claims. One being stated already: We chose the rolenames before allignments were given. The other being that I dislike any plan in which the argument 'I do not see any harm in it' is used.

Last question, what do you think we gained from you posting two scumteams that seem unlikely to you?

I wasn't really saying that anyone was going to quote. I guess I was just afraid *I* was going to go there if I said anything more about it.

Please elaborate.
Also, why didn't you give your opinion of rolename claiming when you posted your thoughts about Soc wanting to claim his role?

I don't feel like voting. Instead, I feel like getting voted for.

Why?

[ZazieR]

Ohohoho, sorry, I've been 'busy'
Normaaly, I wouldn't mind sharing details. But underaged might get certain thoughts. I'll be nice for now and keep the whip away >:]

(In other words: Back and going to read)

[ZazieR]

@Fermata
In post 53, you're elaborating on the bit of modquoting there. The way I read it, you're saying that you can understand why Ani confirmed wrong the first time due to Battou asking for a specific way to confirm. Is this correct?
Also, in the second bit of that same post, you stated that you considered mentioning the rolename claiming plan in the same post where you commented on Soc's claiming thingy. You choose not to do it. What was the reason behind that?


@MMM
In post 56, you state that

that

would make the name claiming plan useless. What exactly was it that made you go from supporting the plan to disapproving of the plan?

Why do you disagree with claiming?

Because it would lead to a discussion point. For town, it will be used to determine if it's likely a town role or a scum role and if you should be lynched for it (Can also due for being an anti-town role, see miller). Scum on the other hand would very likely know if you're telling the truth or if you're lying. If you're not with them (Very likely telling the truth), they can look at a way to use the claim in their advantage. This is even more likely as you're saying that if you use it correctly, something good happens. But that something bad happens if used wrong.
Hence, I prefer more information before a claim.

What would be gained by me sitting on that analysis? I had a thought and I shared it. I might not have bothered to bring it up if this game was moving faster than it is, but is off to a slow start so any point of discussion seems to be okay.

Here's the thing. First off, you agree that the way you determined those 'teams' isn't the best proof ever. Secondly, let's say that one of them has flipped scum and another has flipped town. What's the allignment of the last remaining player of a selected 'team'? What you posted doesn't show anything of that kind.
Basically, it's just fluff.
As for the part of 'I might not have bothered posting this if the game went faster', I don't like it. For the simple reason that you also posted two other things that could lead to discussion. Also, I wouldn't have liked any disussion based on this for the above reasons.

Why?

I had a sinking suspicion that the town would consider bringing up a nameclaim to be scummy.

Now this is interesting. I'm glad that somebody noticed it, but he asked the wrong question.
The correct question, is: Why did you think others would see it as scummy?


Another thing that is interesting is HP's constantly bla-ing about wanting name claims, yet he never addresses the posts that state that any rolename could be any role. Why's that and could you do so?


I'm not a huge fan of Soc so far in this game, but he's at least right about MMM. Stating somebody is scummy and not voting that player is scummy.
I'd have asked you what you thought Soc reason is for voting MPR, but he already explained it >.< So instead, what do you think of Soc's reason?

@PranaDevil:

Since the RVS seems to have ended, I was expecting at least 1 unvote.

@Ani
I think I've become blind O.o Didn't you state in post 85, three posts below the above quote, that you'd like to read this game? So how did you know that RVS was over? Watching along?


Ohohoho, my whip will soon be busy, so I hope that the other player who just caught my attention will be fine with just some handcuffs >:]
More details to follow later, mhmmm.


Rhetorical question: Should I feel bad when I almost had to laugh after reading MMM's 'defence' of Soc's accusation, most notable this one?:

I don't feel that warrants a serious vote. It's a mistake anyone could make.

Me too is interested in hearing why MPR comes across as a VI to you, instead of scummy.
There's also one thing off about MMM's response:

How do you get that from your previous posts? I'm defending MPR, so I'm scum, he's more likely to be scum.

More why not to nameclaim vs. Whjy we should. Less setup speculation, more scumhunting.

Are you seriously telling others to scumhunt, while you haven't done any scumhunting at all?

unvote vote MMM

[ZazieR]

In post 56, you state that that would make the name claiming plan useless. What exactly was it that made you go from supporting the plan to disapproving of the plan?

I was considering the claim because I thought it could help root out fakeclaims. That has since been disproved.

Psst, MMM, wanna hear a secret?
You stated at the end of page 2 that nameclaiming now could help against fakeclaims in the future. You're not gonna believe what I'm gonna tell you next. On that same page, Parama is already fighting that plan as it's stated that it doesn't help against fakeclaims. Even better, one of those posts is right above said post of yours.
So why state back there that it's still a good plan, but later on disagree with it?

On-going games in which he has flipped?

And I'd like to hear an elaboration why you think that voting someone based upon one scumtell is scummy.

Last, your thought of Soc's reason for voting MPR?

[ZazieR]

uhm, oops?
Sorry Prana >.<

Anyway, in response to MMM...
First of all, the part regarding the nameclaiming. There was discussion about wether we should do it or not. Prana brought up early that any rolename could fit any role in a very detailed version, including an example. You still thought it was a good idea, though you gave it a condition. Then Cow comes in, states again that it doesn't work and suddenly you're convinced that it doesn't work?
I really am interested how an undetailed (Is this a word?) could convince you better over a detailed explanation. Because I don't see how it could.

Secondly, the meta question if MPR had flipped in those ongoing games was only to see if he had. Because if he hadn't, it would be useless. (Eventhough it's always the case as you may not discuss ongoing games)
However, the best part about this comes in post 108. Here, MMM states that it's not an excuse. Yet who brought it up to call MPR a VI? (For those too lazy to check, it was MMM himself) Who's using it as an excuse again?

Last, the part of MMM stating that using one scumtell is scummy itself. Hypocrite. For a detailed version, look at his Soc vote. It was all based upon Soc attacking an 'easy target'. Yet now that somebody is using one scumtell to attack him, it's scummy. But when he does it, it's not? Yeah right.

Though I also liked the part where he goes after MPR, whom is now called scummy after he started to attack MMM, instead of being a VI.
I'm not going to say it to please Soc
Soc luckily brought it up, only in a different way.


Also, Soc, I'm apparently missing something. When did you state that you think MPR is town? I couldn't see it, yet MMM is stating it in an 'attack' against you.
Good example of MMM twisting words.


@Shotty
You were suspicious of Soc (post 117)? Since when? And why?


As stated earlier, somebody besides MMM was slowly getting my attention.
HP, I hope you are fine to wait a day for the whip, mhmmm?
Two reasons:
-When I stated it earlier, I wanted to wait to see what HP would do. In the post I saw from him, he didn't address the nameclaiming anymore. Which caught my attention as before that, it was announced that bringing the nameclaiming up would be seen as scummy. That's why I decided to wait. Because HP was in favor for a nameclaim, yet if he wouldn't bring it up, the nameclaiming wouldn't happen. I'd expect from HP-town to try and get the nameclaiming done as he thinks it helps town. Yet, nothing. Do, explain.
-HP is one of the players on the MMM-wagon. He's one of the three players who voted during the RVS against MMM. The others being xvart and MPR. MPR commented on the suspicion raised against MMM, though it was little. Xvart hasn't been online. Leaving HP. Twice commented afterwards. One to comment on the simulpost-lynch. The second time that it was a fluke due to Cow forgetting to unvote. I'm interested in hearing why he hasn't commented on anything regarding MMM, while keeping his RVS vote against MMM.

[ZazieR]

-My point about you and the nameclaiming is still standing.
-I still would like to hear your thoughts about MMM.

Why Cow over Shotty?

Last, the point of them using IRL to get the upper hand in this game. I've played a few times with Cow and I've seen him post in GD. I do NOT expect this behaviour from Cow. (Neither from Shotty, it's just that I have a better impression of Cow)
In other words, it's just a simulpost to me. I don't agree with the players stating that there could be more behind it, but that's their opinion. But to say that they planned it, that's using anything to attack a player with. And that's something I don't like.

[ZazieR]

Not as bad as SttB's reason; but still weak. Seems like both didn't grasp the seriousness of L-1

And yet, you're voting Cow.

[ZazieR]

Communicating outside the thread to coordinate something like that is cheating. Us knowing each other IRL is not a legitimate reason to believe that. hp leaves is bullshitting.

It's also really funny he calls me for 'not scum-hunting' when he has 9 posts and hasn't done shit.

I see nothing prohibiting scum daytalk in the rules. Maybe you know more about it?

It's almost never done and Batt didn't use it in his previous game. Enough for me, to drop the possibility to 3% (Random low number)
I quoted this post as it shows the part I like a lot. Seriously, nothing about the bolded?

[ZazieR]

Not liking leaves' play here.

You suggest two players are chatting IRL about stuff (which, first, would be a hell of a coincidence to land two RL friends as scum, not impossible, but unlikely), this of course would potentially break the rules, but when called on it you say it wouldn't if scum could day talk.

You're the only person who would have known if scum could, or couldn't, day talk, and I'm pretty sure daytalking being allowed isn't the norm, so I think you slipped up there by suggesting that they could day talk.

Tarhalindur fan here. Daytalk was allowed in nearly every game I played in.

I don't see anything in the rules prohibiting scum daytalk or scum talking outside a QT.

Tar is not a mod you can consider as an example ._.

[ZazieR]

@GroupThink

What's MMM's playstyle according to you and on which games is this based?

Nothing scummy happened so far according to you?

[ZazieR]

Hmm. I think MMM's latest vote is last ditch effort of scum to move votes off his sinking ship. He started the game with a lot of mindless posts, doing what ani did except in a more active lurking fashion. He's only grown more serious in scum-hunting as the wagon has built up. This could simply be a natural ramp-up from RVS, but it's still more suspicious to me than Soc.

unvote vote MMM

L-1

@GroupThink
You responded with 'playstyle' to this quote. Due to that, I wanted to know what you see as MMM's playstyle. You respond with the following:

It's not a phenomenon, Zazie, people lurk all the time.

Show me the 'lurking' as Shotty said nothing about it.
The part where you state that something scummy has happened, but that you have to find it yet sounds so fake.

I think Batt made the set-up after he got the role names and the weak-PGO claim supports my thesis.

This reinforces my statement about you not fighting for a name claim.

[ZazieR]

Seriously, due to this discussion between Xvart, HP and Shotty, I went back to check on HP as he's a hypocrite.
When Shotty accused you of not scumhunting, you finally responded to it after some questioning:

Forgot to address the bolded part. I had done more than him and brought no one to L-1 without commenting on them before.

Disagreed. Let's break it down in pieces.
1. I had done more than him
I'd like to remember you the first point I brought up against you. You were in favor of a nameclaim, but after players stated it would be scummy to mention it again, you dropped it. Then came the 'case' against Cow and Shotty, which is discussed. And now you're dropping the 'Shotty has done no scumhunting' argument. So shutting up when it could turn into something scummy, wrong and hypocryte.
2. I've brought no-one to L-1 without commenting on them.
Partially true. You didn't brought anyone to L-1. But you did keep MMM on L-1, while disliking the votes from Cow and Shotty before this.


I'm really disliking Ani's behaviour in this game. Disliking as in '*beep* play better Ani!!!' and not 'scummy Ani' ._.

[ZazieR]

1. I had done more than him
I'd like to remember you the first point I brought up against you. You were in favor of a nameclaim, but after players stated it would be scummy to mention it again, you dropped it. Then came the 'case' against Cow and Shotty, which is discussed. And now you're dropping the 'Shotty has done no scumhunting' argument. So shutting up when it could turn into something scummy, wrong and hypocryte.
2. I've brought no-one to L-1 without commenting on them.
Partially true. You didn't brought anyone to L-1. But you did keep MMM on L-1, while disliking the votes from Cow and Shotty before this.

For the second point, I am the first one to remove my vote from MMM. And I disliked those "L-1" posts and voted has in the same post. Your point is moot.

And for the first part, I still mention nameclaiming. I dropped the case on Cow and Shotty because I had based the case on a mechanic which doesn't exist. It would be illogical if I pushed that case further. And I didn't drop the "Shotty has done no scumhunting" argument. I'm still pushing for it as you can see.

Next time, you should first look at what happened and then comment.
What happened during the MMM-wagon?
The first part is not important, except that you didn't comment on the MMM-wagon, while having your random vote on him. So we start with the simulpost. Cow and Shotty simulposted and therefore 'created an accidentially lynch'. HP's first post is that if MMM flips scum, this would be 'legendary' (Not gonna reconstruct how you wrote legendary ._.) and that you didn't like the simul-votes. Then Batt came in, showing that there was no lynch. Your response? I can't remember, except that you wanted MMM replaced, and I'm too lazy to check. But I can tell you what it didn't contain: An unvote and 'a case' against Cow/ Shotty. That was the post afterwards. Hence my accusation that your statement was partially true as you did leave MMM on L-1.
Mentioning nameclaiming is different than fighting for one. You think it helps town. But after it was seen as potentially scummy, you didn't fight for it again.
And when I stated 'dropping', I meant that you attacked him. Sorry for the mistake.

[ZazieR]

*too much text*

HP's first post is that if MMM flips scum, this would be 'legendary' (Not gonna reconstruct how you wrote legendary ._.) and that you didn't like the simul-votes.

I just said I didn't like how the votes were simul. I mentioned nothing about content.

I have no idea what you're saying here, so please explain. My point still stands anyway.

Soc and everyone else, what do you think about Shotty?

He's in my neutral list.


@Xvart
I'm getting the impression that you're disliking Shotty and Ani more than HP. So how come your vote is on HP and not on one of the latter two if this is the case?
If you dislike HP more, then what's your opinion on his response to your posts?

[ZazieR]

Simullynch is not awesome, though.

I say nothing about the votes here. I just comment on them being simul.

So wait. First of all, something happened (The 'simullynch') and you only say that you don't like it (as in not liking it). Later on, you do see it as scummy and try to push a case against it.
And in between we have your post in which you didn't unvote, while knowing you could.
Scummy, scummy, scummy.

[ZazieR]

Rephrased for HP. I'll call this master piece "HP, you made the wrong move!'

1st scene:
Cow - MMM is a player of this game. This game has only town and 'other'. Your answer doesn't fit town. Thus you are 'other'.
(Yep, (bad) pun on his sig)
Shotty - OMG, our ship is sinking! Guys, don't let MMM escape even if it means for us to sink with the ship. He's trying everything he can to escape by making you leave the ship!!!
(Director or whatever it's called note: The exact words have been twisted a bit to get more drama. I LOOOOOOOVVVVVVVEEEEEEE drama)
*Gap filled with dramatic silence*
Cow - Oh no *shock* Shotty and I caused a simullynch.
Shotty - What do we do???
HP - We're gonna wait for the LEGEN-



DARY



lynch!!!!
Though simullynches shouldn't occur. Don't ever try it at home *HP uses finger*


2nd scene
Batt - STOP in name of good modding! I'm here with my votecount of 'No signs of a simmullynch' to show you all that there was no simmullynch.
*while flying away*
Don't forget to continue the game~
HP - Cow forgot to unvote. So, uhm, what's next?

3rd scene
SHD Zaz - What's next? WHAT'S NEXT??? Ask my whip!!!! OHOHOHOHOHO
*HP puts MMM in front of him*
HP - Don't do anything MMM!
Also, it's time for my case of eternal truth!!!

4th scene
*Players show why the case of eternal truth is wrong*


In other words, what I wanted to make clear is:
1st You state that you don't like the 'simullynch'. I use the term 'not liking' to show that I find something scummy, unless stated. But in your case, it does mean not liking.
2nd You didn't unvote to prevent a lynch.
3rd You come up with your case, which should actually have happened during scene 1 or scene 2.

[ZazieR]

1 is just normal.
2 and 3 state that I'm slow to do things in this slow-slow-slow-game.
During scenes 1 and 2, my posts were just "bah" and "yay" posts. I posted (and unvoted) as soon as I thought I understood what was going on.

Also, anyone who doesn't vote GroupThink below this line is scum.

------------------------this-----------------------line-----------------------------

Really?
First of all, point 1 and 3. Point 3 is your 'case' against Cow and Shotty. It's all about the possibility of day-talking scum and that Cow and Shotty planned the 'simullynch' due to it. So how come this thought wasn't present at point 1?
Secondly, point 2 and 3. Without your unvote, so-called day-talking Cow could have finished off the job. So why no unvote at point 2?

*enter joke about many scum being present as shown by HP's line*


@Xvart
Two points. You first state that HP has improved. In that same post, you switch over to GroupThink for a claim. And later on, you switch back to HP. So now I wonder what your opinion of GroupThink is and why HP is scummier to you than GroupThink.
Secondly, a rhetorical question: Did you know you've never voted Ani once?
So how come when you'd like to see him as lynch the most?


@Amished
Please check HP's posts. After the 'simullynch' occured, he first states that it would be 'legendary'. After that Batt comes in and shows that there was no lynch. HP asks for a MMM replacement in that post. After that one, the 'Cow and Shotty- case' shows up. So yes, he had the chance, but didn't unvote right away after the mod showed there was no lynch.

Ok, since my page by page analysis disappeared (I left it under a tab, then closed the window, because I have it set to reset the tabs I had open before, and when I reopened the window it had logged me out of MS and all of it was gone ) I'm just gonna post things I have noticed.

Ani

AtE's, doesn't read thread, doesn't read thread, responds to random bandwagon badly

Soc and Flashstorm and Xvart and Prana

Very protown in my opinion

MMM, MPR, HPleaves

Definitely not shining images of protown
Hate the noob card "what am I supposed to do if no one tells me how to act town" from MPR

Softclaims galore from MMM (58), Soc (60), Ani (96)

@Fermata
In post 53, you're elaborating on the bit of modquoting there. The way I read it, you're saying that you can understand why Ani confirmed wrong the first time due to Battou asking for a specific way to confirm. Is this correct?

Also, in the second bit of that same post, you stated that you considered mentioning the rolename claiming plan in the same post where you commented on Soc's claiming thingy. You choose not to do it. What was the reason behind that?

What was your reasoning for asking the bold Zazie?

To look into her reasoning. Soc mentioned two things and she only commented on one and the other later on. When I asked her about it, she states that she was considering stating both in one post, but decided not to do so. This is odd to me, so I wanted to know why.
Reasons for your opinion of Soc, Xvart, Prana, HP and MMM. As for stating Flash at the pro-town players, is it normal for you to state that your player slot is pro-town? And if so, why state Flash instead of your own name?


@HP
Where is the Freudian slip and what do you think of it?

[ZazieR]

EBWOP
Also not liking Cry pointing out 'softclaims'

[ZazieR]

@Xvart
You've stated that HP is the scummiest even after he has improved. You've also stated that MMM was getting scummier since your bandwagoning vote. I'd like to know why HP is higher than MMM in terms of scummyness.

Also, about Animorph. How did you learn that he's acting the same here as in other games (Though scummier) and when?


I'm also interested why Prana and Amished pointed something out against MPR, while I'm doing the same things too.

[ZazieR]

You've even been on HP's case, and argued with him, and stopped looking at the MMM slot during that time, so how come GroupThink is still scummier in your view?

Not liking MPR's unwillingness to switch while still calling them both scummy.

I'm talking about these, Amished.

[ZazieR]

VOTE: Pittbunny

[ZazieR]

*raises eyebrow*
Prana, can you paraphrase the description of your ability?

[ZazieR]

Am I the only one who doesn't like the stated reason Pitt choose to kill Soc? It also gave me a deja vu from this game. Gotta look who mentioned something like this as well.
As to add to him not attacking Cry, I find it more interesting that he isn't voting 'scum' as he has stated he found scum-Amished.

[ZazieR]

As to why I chose Socrates as part of a final pool: strong posting content followed by a tapering of meaningful content/relevance. I'm of the opinion that it isn't hard for scum to play as town would for at least D1, and the gradual loss of argument to nearly non-existant (especially for someone taking the moniker of a philosopher) was confusing for me. Having not been immersed in the game on a real-time basis, I suppose I failed to realize the flow of momentum that usually surrounds posting content, and mistook lack of content due to a loss of momentum for scum failing to continue playing as hard-town.

Back to this. You mention Soc's lack of posting at the end of the game. What did you think of the lack of posting from Cry and GroupThink at the end of the previous day?


I just went into detail why the bus driver theory was very likely untrue, just to see that Pitt is now claiming something else ._.
But I will point out again the last bit of it. That I find it very interesting that it was Pitt who kept bringing up the possibility of being redirected.

As for the new claim:
-Why did you decide to check it now?
-Why kill Nacho? You stated that you think that Ani and Cry look always scummy. Yet, Ani was replaced at the end of day. So why Nacho and not Cry? Also, you stated at the start that it was between Soc and Cry. How come you didn't mention Ani here?
-I'm not liking the doc direction, the soft direction for a information ability to target you and the 'I am willing to shoot myself or be lynched myself' mentality.

As for your next post, I find it interesting that you vote Cry, while before you stated that you caught scum in Amished and that you always see Cry as scummy. So why Cry over Amished?

Cry is not the way to go.

[ZazieR]

1. Scummy but typical from Cry, and terrible from GT.

Interesting word choice. It was scummy from Soc and it was scummy from Cry. But when we're talking about GroupThink, it's classified as 'terrible'. Want to elaborate on the choice of words?

Regarding 2.
Do you want to know why I find it interesting? Because as you've stated yourself, it could be coming from scum-Prana. Yet, you gave yourself a possible way out and Prana as well. And that's off.

3. is the worst explanations. You're stating that both Cry and Ani always seem scummy to you. With Nacho in the game, you could see if the player slot from Ani/Nacho was indeed scummy or just Ani playing. Therefore, I find it very interesting to see how you don't explain why you targeted Nacho over Cry and why Nacho wasn't mentioned when you stated that it was between Soc and Cry. With that said, you've also failed to address why you voted Cry over Amished as well.

4. Confirmed Pranatown? Am I missing something? The part about the investigation is so setting of my gut here. And I'm not liking the AtE.

5. No, it's not bizarre. Cry is asuming it's based upon you finding him scummy based upon activity matters. Even Cry can't disagree that his activity is bad so far. And from what I read, you're stating that you don't want him to be stupid scum? Say again? And as you said, you should know if you're town or not. So why add the 'If I were scum' part?
What was Amished proposal?

[ZazieR]

Confirmed ability isn't confirmed allignment. Isn't that right, Pitt?

No, it's not stupid at all. It's either keeping to your statament that you killed a player which some players had a good impression of and a different claimed ability mismatching or stating that you made a mistake when claiming. Which one looks better?
Add that Hider has different meanings, making it easy for Pitt to lie if he's scum.

[ZazieR]

Add that Hider has different meanings, making it easy for Pitt to lie if he's scum.

Your answer^^

[ZazieR]

So tell me, you are saying a hider has different meanings to make it easy for Pitt to lie. Tell me 2 examples of these other meanings that would allow Pitt to lie.

It's worth noting that I know, 100%, that Pitt visited Nacho, which means he cannot be only claiming to have targetted Nacho.

1. A hider could be killed when the player he has targeted is killed.
2. A hider sometimes can be killed when he targets scum.
And as for Pitt, scumteams don't always exist of only mafia goons and godfather.

I use terrible in GT's case because I know GT's alignment - mine.

Yet, you had no problems calling your predecessors scummy in a different post. Nice try.

Secondly, just repeat the proposals. Because I did check. And the only thing that I could see as a proposal from Amished was to wait for Prana to show up. And if that's the proposal you were talking about, I have no idea how that fits in with what we were discussing.

About the 'tunneling', you are the top suspicion of mine. You've claimed something I'm not believing and you're scummy as hell for things I've pointed out. Then you also refuse to not answer all the questions I've asked, to soft attack me in the end by stating that I'm tunneling. Nice try, but not working.
I want you to answer my questions and respond to the part of 'confirmed Pranatown', better said 'confirmed ability isn't the same as confirmed allignment'.

[ZazieR]

Guy. Also, there's a simple way for me to prove my alignment.

Would you like me to lynch myself? It'll be fun, you'll get to see how wrong you are, and CMAR gets to walk for a night on his absurdist comments.

Oh really, Pitt?
Shall I state it again: 'confirmed ability isn't the same as confirmed allignment'.
I really thought you knew that.

P.S. Cry is town, you're not.

[ZazieR]

If that's the case, then please claim whom you are and what's being stated what your ability is.

[ZazieR]

How do you kill with a microphone?

[ZazieR]

And as for Pitt, scumteams don't always exist of only mafia goons and godfather.

That I really need to state this ._. Mafia roleblocker, mafia role cop, mafia bus driver, etc. There are mafia roles that may kill and/or use a different ability. So it's possible that Pitt used her second ability (Like roleblock) on Nacho (Though it would fail) and a scumpartner would have kill Soc. Nacho's death could be explained if one of the two points I stated about hider is true. He either hid behind Soc or targeted scum.
This gives us scum-Pitt who 'Targeted' Nacho, Nacho and Soc died due to scum.

Another stone cold fact is that not only did Pitt target Nacho (something that I could NOT have found out had Nacho been hiding, and a hider cannot be targetted by anyone if they are hiding), but TWO deaths happened last night, which means somebody else killed Soc.

FoS Prana

Giving Pitt the 'something' of the doubt.
UNVOTE: Pitt VOTE: Xvart

[ZazieR]

EDIT: 'benefit of the doubt'
Finally remembered what it was >.<

[ZazieR]

@Zazie, if you're going to back off of my case, may I ask for your comment on CMAR's latest post?

I don't think it's scummy as I've stated earlier.

[ZazieR]

@Xvart
You've stated that HP is the scummiest even after he has improved. You've also stated that MMM was getting scummier since your bandwagoning vote. I'd like to know why HP is higher than MMM in terms of scummyness.

Also, about Animorph. How did you learn that he's acting the same here as in other games (Though scummier) and when?

I would like to hear an answer to this, Xvart.

[ZazieR]

And you're going to FoS me for pointing out that somebody other than Pitt killed Soc? Seriously? When it's blindly obvious I'm a smegging watcher?

FoS

again.

And no, that's not a fact as it depends on the mod.

[ZazieR]

No 'Oops, I meant tracker again' this time?

[ZazieR]

If Pitt is scum, Xvart should be lynched tomorrow. This can't get more obvious.

So I'll respond first to Xvart. Yes, that post I quoted came after the post with answers you linked to. So do answer.
Secondly, for your question:

Mafia watcher

: Mini 909
Mini 829
Mini 773
Mini 737
Mini 672
Mini 656
Mini 645

Mafia tracker

: Mini 913
Mini 851
Mini 684

PGO

: Mini 756
(Mini 934)
Mini 887

Lie Detector

: -

So I'm interested. Why only ask about the scum tracker in mini games, while both PGO and Lie Detector have less (PGO is notified as less as one is a 1-shot.)
All can be found in the mini archive at the queue.


While we are talking about mafia watchers, you aren't cleared at all due to them Prana. If Pitt did vig Nacho (or targeted him), you'd have known this to if you had watched Nacho. But this discussion only needs to continue if Pitt flips town. Xvart on the other hand isn't that lucky as he's individually scummy as well.


@Amished
Why aren't you supportive anymore of the super awesome Xvart case?

Xvart's post in which he attacks Shotty before his claim is so bad. Guys, meet misrep. Guys, meet scum player trying to make a player look back who has evidence that condemns his partner (The lyncher stuff). Also, lyncher stuff and the misrep from Xvart don't go together.

Add to the part of Xvart questioning me about mafia trackers that he also didn't question daypowers and that he came up himself with the possibility that Shotty can't hammer.

[ZazieR]

VOTE: Xvart

To give Shotty-scum time to respond and start a wagon on Xvart-scum.

[ZazieR]

Shotty, seriously. You want to state that there is a vig present, three mafia, a serial killer and a PGO? The only thing that you can state otherwise is that Amished is lying and that he's actually the serial killer or scum. The first I won't buy at all. The second has a very, very, very, ..., very small chance as Amished reads pro-town to me.
Secondly, I'm not up for a no-lynch. If Amished is a PGO, the scum will be the one in trouble if we lynch.
But the biggest reason would be for the fact that Xvart is scum. Why should we keep Xvart scum alive for another day? But I'll get back to that soon enough. Because I was talking about you, Shotty.
Shotty, please paraphrase what was stated at your ability and what the mod gave you as return PM after submitting your action.
I'd also like to know if there has any reason been given why you have a day action.

Now, it's Xvart's turn. Batt has stated to me that you're guilty. Please die.

Third would be MPR. Not liking that he wants Shotty lynched, but doesn't vote him.

[ZazieR]

Good, Shotty is scum too. The reason why I asked my question about his ability is simple.
-ZazieR targeted Cry N1 (Hence I was defending him D2) In the response I got from the mod, there was a little bit of flavour.
-Prana stated that he had targeted Pitt D2. It was stated by him that Pitt looked around or something and walked away in his PM he had gotten from the mod.
-ZazieR targeted Xvart N2. Again, I had some flavour.
It seems that you are lacking it, Shotty. Not liking that.
Another thing I don't like about your last post is that RestFermata claimed PGO during D2. Back then, you had no problems with the claim. But now, you suddenly do? I'm not buying it.


Yes, I have a cop investigation against Xvart.
My rolename is Super Hot Dominatrix. To explain, the Super Hot part came from 'that time'. I used it in two of my modded games (Mini 808 and Open 122 (?)) As Batt played in Mini 808 (Mini theme, btw) I wanted to use it in his game. The Dominatrix part was added later on. It used to be 'Super Hot Chick'. But I've been UncertainKitten in one game and in another Forbiddanlight so I wanted to use that as well. Hence, the combination.
I'm a cop as I tie my target up and use that time to search their belongings (But I apparently whip them as well to try and get a confession). Cry had nothing in his belongings and didn't confess anything. Xvart on the other hand did confess.

And I agree with Cow. I don't understand how Xvart's 'logic' gets him into two scum members.

[ZazieR]

Let's see. The claimed investigation roles: Tracker, Cop, Lie Detector.
The result from the tracker was correct.
One result from the cop has also been shown as correct (Cry), so the second is likely correct as well.
The result from the Lie Detector was wrong. But then again, it's a fake claim as stated earlier.

Want to claim, Xvart?

[ZazieR]

So is Xvart, so you did the right thing.

[ZazieR]

I'm a cop as I tie my target up and use that time to search their belongings (But I apparently whip them as well to try and get a confession).

Cry had nothing in his belongings and didn't confess anything.

Xvart on the other hand did confess.

If you didn't vote due to the cop claim, then why did you?

[ZazieR]

Will look at the second statement soon (Dinner time), but Shotty hasn't posted after Xvart reached L-1.

[ZazieR]

About your second statement, the post with the Xvart vote in it is the first time you're mentioning him.
So how was he scummy to you?

[ZazieR]

Her saying "Town is overpowered. That must make the mafia even less powerful than normal! It's not LYLO guys, listen to me, I promise!"

Ok, where do I begin?
-In that post from Xvart was also a quote that I had a guilty against Xvart and he stated that I'm softclaiming cop or something.
-You didn't read his explanation of what he meant.
-He did state that it's likely LYLO.

But my biggest issue with your vote swap is that you went from confirmed scum to a player you didn't know was confirmed scum without questions asked.