Mini 986: Beatles Mafia (Game Over)

[Anon]

Vote: Karma.

Emoticon scumtell detected.

[Anon]

@Anon: If you had to lynch one player in this game only based on their user name, who would it be and why (no lynch is no option here). That being answered, if you were scum and had an instant day kill, whom would you hit?

Lynch bases on username AND POSTING: you. Some of these questions are either stupid or borderline rolefishing. Im still pondering if this makes you bold scum or silly town, though.

Have you tried this before? What conclusions do you get of the answers so far.

Kill if I were scum: no one rings me particularly town yet.

@Anon: Amuse me. What is it about emoticons that make it a scumtell?

Ive read a lot of games and Ive seen that this scumtell has hit scum more than average. It is based on the idea of the nervous things you add to your posts when you are scum to make your post look less menacing. (emoticons, unnecesary banter, etc).

[Anon]

unvote, vote: danakillsu

reason?=

[Anon]

He obviously voted for me simply because I was voting for him, and didn't even bother giving a fake reason for it. Just because it's "RVS" doesn't mean OMGUS is impossible.

^^^scummy

also, anon, why vote me for the emoticons and not muh, who two posts above me wrote this:

wow i didnt even know that the topic started.

Vote karma

I FREAKIN LOVE THE YANKEES!!!!!!!!!!!!!

muh is partially right, the scumtell obviously tends to lose its accuracy in random voting stages and to win accuracy while getting into the game.

[Anon]

I think you guys are overreacting to dana complimenting the mod. I don't think that writing an extra sentence is actually gonna stop you from scumhunting.

Except he's not scumhunting.

im no fan of his scumhunting techiques (voting with no reason is a nulltell) but by page 2 he has scumhunted more than a lot of players in the game. What makes him special?

[Anon]

Except he's not scumhunting.

Way to say something negative about me with no basis. It's the second page, I have revealed one person as acting scummily, and you are already accusing me of not scumhunting. Who made you king of MafiaScum? I missed the coronation.
My case on inHimshallIbe is a better one than most people have, especially you.

Moar votes plz

why?

[Anon]

Well this is shaping up to be a VI heavy game.

FUN. Hey Skeward, we might get lynched by stupid town part deux.

----

I'm getting a sense that Anon might be onto something, and Karma being quick to point out dana's alleged 'nervousness' is projection on his part.

Vote: Karma

why do you think its fun that this is shaping up to be a VI heavy game?

also, in your own words, why do you think Im into someting?

[Anon]

@muh316, Anon, VasudeVa: I've provided reasons why I think that, although similar, a MonkeyMan lynch is better than a Karma lynch. Do you agree? Would you jump onto this wagon?

At this point Im thinking one of Monkey or Karma is scum.

Also, if Monkey is scum, Zang is 100% scum with him.

[Anon]

Unvote Vote: MonkeyMan

[Anon]

Theres nothing wrong in posting your town reads, btw.

In fact, Ill go ahead and post a scumlist for your pleasure:

Town
2.) danakillsu
7.) muh316
10.) TheSkeward
11.) VasudeVa

Neutral
3.) ekiM
4.) inHimshallibe
8.) Scott Brosius

Scum
9.) Shadow Dancer
One of Karma or MonkeyMan
12.) Zang (100% if MonkeMan scum)

[Anon]

Um, any particular reason? If its lurking and general unhelpfulness, the pot calling the kettle black comes to mind.

I dont like the push on dana which is screaming easy target all over his head. Thats the basic premise of one of Monkey and Karma is scum.

I dont think lurking and being unhelpful are conclusive scumtells, btw. Do you?

[Anon]

Yeah, you seem overly concerned about one vote, that's a scumtell. As far as the mod is concerned, if I were you I'd be more interested in scumhunting than mod complimenting. So who do you think is scum so far?

This is suspicous. There were three votes on Dana when he posted the post that you quoted (one of which was yours). And how could he be scumhunting until a few posts before this it was the RVS.

The whole case against Dana is flawed. And I see almost nothing from karma except "He is scum, vote for him!".

Unvote
Vote:Karma

In all your post you attack Monkeyman. Yet your vote is on Karma.

[Anon]

My grandma died and lost total access. Im fine now. Let me catch up.

[Anon]

Official Day One Vote Count: #8

4 - inHimshallibe (danakillsu, muh316, Zang, Scott Brosius)
4 - Starbuck (inHimshallibe, Anon, VasudeVa, TheSkeward)
3 - muh316 (Shadow Dancer, ekiM,Karma)

[/b][/color]

Starbuck lynch > inhim lynch > muh lynch.

Dana, muh, Zang and Scott, in one paragraph, what is the reason that makes you prefer inhim over star?

Same question to SD, Ekim and Karma.

[Anon]

Someone end this torment.

[Anon]

did I miss the flip, why are you sad Zang?

[Anon]

wait, why?

[Anon]

This still applies, Im glad my top town reads are still alive:

Town
2.) danakillsu
7.) muh316
10.) TheSkeward
11.) VasudeVa

Neutral

3.) ekiM
4.) inHimshallibe

8.) Scott Brosius

Scum
9.) Shadow Dancer
One of Karma or

MonkeyMan

12.) Zang (

100% if MonkeMan scum

)[/quote]

Vote: Karma.

The logic is pretty simple. Since I have a realiable town read on danakillsu (active and agressive stance in the defense yesterday), then its very likely one scumbag was chasing an easy target for the mislynch of the day. Since Monkey is dead and town, then Karma is very likely scumbaggo. His other posts hasnt given me a really strong town vibe also.

Other wagons Id support are ShadowDancer (basically overall lurking day 1 after a really bad post) and Zang (I really really find it hard that a player of his level - no offense - could be able to read Starbuck play as town play)

[Anon]

Day Two Vote Count: #1

3 - muh316 (danakillsu, Scott Brosius, Karma)
1 - Karma (muh316)
1 - Scott Brosius (VasudeVa)
1 - Zang (Shadow Dancer)

With

9

alive, it takes

5

to lynch, and

3

to lynch at deadline. Deadline is July 19, at 9:00 pm PDT.

Not Voting - 3 - Anon, The Skeward, Zang

What exactly is the case on muh316?

Skeward and Zang, why arent you voting?

[Anon]

and Zang (I really really find it hard that a player of his level - no offense - could be able to read Starbuck play as town play

.
I never said she was town because of her play.

So why was she town?

What exactly is the case on muh316?
Skeward and Zang, why arent you voting?

General unhelpfulness, being the hammer for a lame reason. This is the main slipup

Can you quote or explain how has he been unhelfpul? Also how can a hammer at deadline be a lame reason?

Um...what?

Scumlist in your following post.

I know it's not scummy but I believe it was just too early to get a lynch and a roleclaim just after 24 hours after the day.

WAT. Why are you voting for not scummy actions?

@Zang: Then I did not understand you correctly. Please explain again - in your own words - for what exact reasons you resigned from the monkey waggon.

I don't think I was on the monkey wagon. But I didn't think starbuck should have been lynched for something monkey did and that she deserved a chance to catch up.

Ok, this is getting ridiculous. You thought Monkey was scum, yes or no?

[Anon]

No, she was town because she wasn't given the chance to catch up.

OK, you

really

do not make

any

sense at all. Can you give me

one

good reason why Star's meat world issues should have any correlation with her being scum or town?! The majority of town decided she shouldn't have the chance or rather had it and did not use it. You can have another opinion, but all that has nothing to do with Star's allignment...

What? I never said she was town because of her real world issues.

eh... What? She did not catch up so she had to be town?

No, she was town because she wasn't given the chance to catch up.

Unvote Vote: Zang.

[Anon]

As I suspected, Zang had NO valid reason to think Starbuck was town before the flip.

Lets lynch this scumbag please.

[Anon]

He is less scummy than Karma and Zang.

What do you think of zang?

[Anon]

I don't see scum forgetting who died last night and posting it in thread. It's too careless.

I also agree with this. For the Karma case, see my post.

[Anon]

A claim would be ideal.

Mod, please prod/replace Karma and whoever needs it.

[Anon]

lol, mod is also vla...

come on, where is everyone,

[Anon]

No, A hider is the opposite of a bodyguard (

a hiders target dies instead of the hider

). I haven't used my ability yet but i wouldn't target somebody scummy because if I do I would die.

http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Hider

The Hider has the ability to target one player each night. If that player is pro-town, the hider is protected from Night-Kills that night.

If the player targeted is killed that same night, the Hider dies too.

If the player targeted is Mafia, the hider usually dies.

Thx for trying fakeclaiming scumbag.

Confirm vote: Zang,

[Anon]

err, read the bold?

[Anon]

Thats not how a hider works. A hider and his target will die if the target is targetted by a nightkill. If you are targetted for a kill, your target will NOT die instead of you. Read the wiki I just quoted, FFS.

Which is why you are lying and fakeclaiming scumbaggo.

[Anon]

Stop the fucking claiming.

Rereading what I missed now, just wanted to point that out.

[Anon]

Why would I stop the claiming?

Because its stupid unless we do a massclaim.

We are not even sure there is a vig in this game, the inhim kill could have been as well perpetrated by a sk trying to look like a vig. If there is a vig he might also be a 2-shot vig, so saying who isnt a vig reduces the pool of players who can be the vig. This is borderline rolefishing.

Why anon?

I think he might be scum.

Great case you have there, dude.

Regarding Zang stuff. I dont believe the claim, I really really doubt petroleumjelly, a very formal mod regarding roles and balance (Ive read some games of him) would change the way the standard hider works.

The plan some of you are proposing is not going to work anymore since we dont know what else is on the mix and its very easy for scum (regardless of Zang alignment) to play around this. I dont want to give mafia ideas of how they could.

Ive already caught Zang in two blatant contradictions (the Starbuck case, the hider claim). I cant belive we are not lynching him.

[Anon]

That would explain your reluctance to the wagon.

Unvote

I really dont see this as a scum maneuver (too desesperate, town isnt precisely in a good position) Scott, did you leave any breadcrumbs?

[Anon]

Before your claim, I didnt really have much to add besides wanting Zang dead. (You can read my posts to find out that). And yes, Ive been posting in other games but all my reading energies were spent in another ongoing game and I was planning to post here tonight.

Ok, no breadcrumbs. Anyways, the Zang love for non tangible reason seems sufficient to me and my first impression (careless maneuver for a scum motivation in a hypothetic Scott-Zang scumteam) is likely to be correct. That means both Zang and Scott are town unless Zang is investigation inmune, which is something that should not be considered even for a lynch today.

(Just checking, if there is a real cop he should inmediately counterclaim. I doubt this is the case but it doesnt hurt in case Scott is bold scum.)

As for the remaining candidates. I dont think SD is scum anymore, his activeness in this stage of the game is ext protown. I also dont think Skeward is scum, basically for his reaction to Starbuck behavior. (I think a scum would not get a fight that hard against someone about to be lynched and that he knew would come up town, scum could just hid behind and not be very vocal about it). Muh and Karma are both good candidates. I just read Muh and Karma on iso and Muh's last posting is really really bad while Karma still needs replacing for answering the accusations against him.

Ive also realized that I didnt have a very tangible reason for having muh as a town read (gut). This post bothers me inmensely:

No, A hider is the opposite of a bodyguard (

a hiders target dies instead of the hider

). I haven't used my ability yet but i wouldn't target somebody scummy because if I do I would die.

http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Hider

The Hider has the ability to target one player each night. If that player is pro-town, the hider is protected from Night-Kills that night.

If the player targeted is killed that same night, the Hider dies too.

If the player targeted is Mafia, the hider usually dies.

Thx for trying fakeclaiming scumbag.

Confirm vote: Zang,

BUSTED

In this post he clearly agrees with the hate on Zang, yet he doesnt vote. Its like he is staying in the background while supporting the hate regardless of Zang alignment.

Finally, the majority of his other posting are one lines, with no new input. A possible rolefisihin in his 32. What is worse is that I dont even know who is his top suspect. Playing safe much?

Vote: muh.

[Anon]

Who is scum and why?

[Anon]

It was the first thing I checkec. He is far from noob town.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/search.p ... &start=350

The vote on me is because?

[Anon]

What makes you think muh is more noob town than noob scum?

[Anon]

By a total lack of malice in his play. I explained this before, I think. (Or maybe it was in that other game.)

i beg to differ. Staying under the radar is a common scum tactic. I dont think muh is a noob, so faking being a noob or a vi for playstyle is far from being a towntell, imo.

What I also dont understand is what makes me special of all the group that expressed support for the muh hate? I thought you had a town read on me? Correct me if Im wrong.

[Anon]

ok im reading now

[Anon]

First, today is very likely Lylo (assuming the 3 scum distribution in a mini game), so Id like people to vote only if you are very very sure of your choice.

I agree with Zang doing the order. Even thought its possible he is some kind of investigation immune role, that tangent should not be considered even for discussion today.

So you want me to create a list for massclaim? I would say that fitz should go but he pretty much already claimed so I think anon should claim followed by SD.

I think fitz claimed vanilla here.

And as I have no role to claim...and I don't think it would matter if I don't wait for Zang to go 1st...I'll provide that as well. VT.

Okay. Im Ticket to ride, 2-shot tracker. Night 1 I targetted Karma, my top suspect at the time, and he didnt go anywhere. Yesterday I was debating weather to target him again, target Pie or save my last shot since I was very likely in no risk of night kill and my shot could be useful for a reduced pool of players. Since it was probably going to be lylo today, I finally decided targetting Pie. He didnt go anywhere as well.

What its notable is that I got different messages from Petroleum when he sent me the results of the two players. Paraphrasing, Karma's one was more in the lines of not doing anything, while the Pie one was not leaving for doing anything. I have read some games of Petroleumy and I know he is a very formal mod in regards to roles, private messages, etc. (which is part of the reason why I still have this bad feeling about Zang and his modified hider claim) so I asked him yesterday if I should take these different results as additional information. He said he couldnt answer.

Which is one of the reasons why I want Pie to claim next instead of Shadow Dancer.

[Anon]

Another thing I find interesting: You coach your scummbuddies to claim VT because that seems pretty safe to you.
In our current situation I can see absolutely no townish motivation to opnely mention what you expect others to claim or which claims you would believe.
You might also be trying to discurage other townies with PRs to claim with this, btw. I smell scum.

Just for the record, this is weak reasoning. We just started the day, Im pretty sure if Karma were coaching his scumbuddies he would have done it yesterday night while they could talk.

[Anon]

Ive learnt my lesson the hard way in trying to gambit my night results in lylo. Most of the time its not recommendable to do this, specially in likely lylo.

Okay, barring counterclaims, you are probably the additional kill source, since I dont see scum killing inhim day 1. The debate now is wether you are a vig or a sk.

Questions,
why did you want 3 shots?
who was your top suspect by the end of day 1?

I really want Pie to go next.

[Anon]

If I hadnt this gutsy town read on you, Id say you are very likely sk. Flavor, failure to kill your top suspect, it all points to sk.

Anyways, if nobody counterclaims the inhim kill, then its very likely you are not mafia, which means you shouldnt be lynched today. Worse scenario, 3-man scumteam, means we need to hit mafia today.

My prefered order is Pie, Vasu and Skeward.

[Anon]

WIFOM.

[Anon]

Okay, so we have the following:

Alive
1.) Anon : 2-Shot tracker
2.) Pie_is_good vanilla
5.) havingfitz vanilla
9.) Shadow Dancer 2-Shot vig
10.) TheSkeward vanilla
11.) VasudeVa vanilla
12.) Zang 1-Shot hider

Dead
6.) Starbuck vanilla
3.) ekiM, vanilla
4.) inHimshallibe, 2-Shot Doctor
7.) muh316, vanilla
8.) Scott Brosius, 2-Shot Cop

So if all power roles are telling the truth, then we have 2-shots tracker, vig, doc, cop, a 1-shot hider and 4 vanillas. My first impression is that its imbalanced against scum but seeing as how the game almost ends in night 2, I guess its not that imba. Also the reduced shots and the two night kills can make it up.

I seriously cant stop feeling bad about the 1-shot modified hider claim. I know I said that a player with an investigation should not be considered for discussion today but after trying to solve the claim puzzle, that piece just doesnt fit in the 2-shot normal claims. I cant stop thinking why Petroleum didnt think a 2-shot hider would be reasonable but a 2-shot vig yes.

I still have my reservations about the vig-claim. I have a town read on ShadowDnacer but as I said, failing to kill your top suspect when you claim vig is a big red flag. The flavor is just another thing that is bugging me, but why would ShadowDancerSK post his real flavor? Wifom? Anyways, Im going to reinforce the idea that even if ShadowDancer were confirmed SK, he shouldnt be lynched.

With that out of my chest, I think Vasu and Skew are prob town. Shadowdancer shouldnt be lynched. My choices would be Zang, Pie and havingfitz. I wont support other lynches.

[Anon]

Simply put: ;ore important than the question if I might be SK (which I'm not!) is the simple fact that I maybe am the only confirmed non-scum right now.

Which is exactly why I said that you shouldnt be lynched today. We need to hit scum today.

I share your concern about Zang (1-shot vs. 2-shot issue), only problem is that I see no plausible reason to include a GF in game with limited cop shots.

Why not?

Other than blending in nicely with 2-shot flavour (easily faked) I do not really like your claim so far... However I've had a solid town read of you so far... But there is a question unanswered:
1. Why did you chose Pie of all the players as your 2nd night choice. Why do you think Pie is scum now?

This:

And Pie sneaks in just under deadline!
First off, I'll add my name to the list of players requesting a deadline extension if that helps us reach a majority.
Second off, assuming Brosius is telling the truth - and I have no reason to suppose he's not - that makes my reads fairly straightforward: Anon HavingFitz Skeward are the remaining three from my neutral/scum pile. I'll

Vote: Anon

as a counterwagon to muh.

Zang, if we mislynch tonight, you need to seek

town

with your hide - we can't let you die or we've already lost.
If we successfully lynch, hit Anon/muh, whichever one survives. Don't break from this unless you say you will in thread first.

First, only a scumbag would know muh and me are both town, so pushing any of the wagons would be indifferent to his interests.

You would have to assume Im town in this first exercise but ok, lets say you dont believe me.

Why would Pie say Zang to target

"town"

with his hide when the town play was for Zang to not do anything at all?

Also this suggests that only one of Pie(dana) and fitz(karma) is scum. And then there was that confrontation between karma and dana at the beginning of the game, which I coulod hardly think of as scum vs. scum.

I agree with this. Only the results of my claim would be enough to decide this 1vs1 since both of them have claimed vanilla.

I also rather have a town read on pie, but not so much on skeward and my suspicion of VV has grown recently (I'll try to finally provide a real case tomorrow). So what makes you so sure of them being town?

Vasu tone on his 526 rings me sincere. His reasoning is not highly accurate but its what I was also thinking when you guys voted each other.
Skeward being town is from day 1, specially the fight with Starbuck when she was about to be lynched. As I said, I really dont see a scum getting the Starbuck hate, who would come up town. As well, I think a scumbag would be lurking, avoiding the negative attention the mislynch could create, since Starbuck lynch was inevitable.

And, before I forget: What is your town read of me based on, by the way?

Active posting. You arent afraid to post what you think. I can feel it from the tone of your posts. Either that or you are terribly good at wifom.

And finnally: Who would be your top lynch right now?

One of having or Pie. I need to reread but leaning to having for being in a potential 1 on 1 with you and 1 on 1 with Pie.

[Anon]

@Anon: If that's your case against pie I consider on the wrong track.
As I understood pie he meant the following:
I) We lynch scum (no danger of LyLo) -> zang targets muh or you (top suspects of pie, as I understand it, though I absolutely did and do not agree) as pseudo invstigation (that's picking up SB's idea).
II) We mislynch town -> hide behind town (this idea could have proven fatal for town, though, because Zang would likely have died one way or the other any way).

The way I read it is that Pie was suggesting Zang to target someone regardless of the result of the lynch, even if we lynched town, since he thought he had to target (why would he even think that?). He of course corrected himself after you posted, but the suggestion was there. And I dont like it.

Where is Skeward and Pie, btw?

Mod, mass prod please.

[Anon]

I seriously cant stop feeling bad about the 1-shot modified hider claim. I know I said that a player with an investigation should not be considered for discussion today but after trying to solve the claim puzzle, that piece just doesnt fit in the 2-shot normal claims. I cant stop thinking why Petroleum didnt think a 2-shot hider would be reasonable but a 2-shot vig yes.

I think it's one-shot because it's a combination of roles. It's a killing role, an investigation role and it protects me. The others are simpler and less dangerous.

A vig while not complicated its extremely dangerous.

Anyways, I think Im agreeing with SD about you not being lynched today. I still dont like you, btw.

[Anon]

This is one of my mafia pet peeves. You tracked me last night, got the townliest possible result, and still want me dead? Why bother tracking me? A massive case of confirmation bias?

You of all the players in this game should know that a negative tracking result with all the scumbags alive does NOT confirm you in the absolute..

As explained day two, I missed that he was one-shot and reversed my decision as soon as I was corrected.

Yep, thats what is exactly bothering me. What would have happened if no one corrected you two hours from deadline?

Just so we're on the same page here: You're accusing me of deliberately trying to trick Zang into making a bad play to get himself killed?

Yes.

If so, the followup question is: Have you ever been scum before, and is that really something you would do?

Ive been scum before and yes, Ive tried it once. Youll have to trust me in this one because it was face to face in a similiar situation, althought the player was a claimed noob cop and I blatantly told him to target a very quiet player instead of the scummiest, my scumpartner. Anyways, my point is that you are an experienced player from 2003. In this context of players from 2009 and 2010, your opinion would obv be taken into account, specially if the hypothetical town hider is a total disaster.

@Anon...could you expand on your town reads on Vasu and Skew? A sincere post from Vasu and a town for the most part feeling towards Skew doesn't exactly exonerate either of them from being good scum.

Yep, at this point everyone has something that can make them scum but the trick of this game is to ponder the amount of townie and scummie actions everyone has done and decide who is most likely town or scum from that. Besides scumhunting, you can also townhunt and use Process of Elimination to help your decision.

[Anon]

I want people to read my #564 alongside Pages 2-4 of this game and see if they agree/disagree.

I really dont have time to reread right now but as I said, lets explain the logic route everyone with a townie PM should follow.

We need to hit scum today. The worse scenario is that we still have 3 mafia alive so we should not lynch the not counterclaimed additional kill who is our first non confirmed scum. That said, we should not lynch ShadowDancer.

I am agreeing with the reasoning that hunting the godfather in lylo is not optymal even if the player is scummy as hell. (Just for the record, Im really having a hard time seeing how Zang that supposedly has been cleared by a cop, is playing a very scummy lurking, zero scumhunting game after being cleared). Barring that, we should not lynch Zang today.

Everyone has more scummy and less scummy reads. My less scummy reads are SD, Vasu and Skew. That would leave, having and Pie in the decision block for me. and a high likeliness of hitting scum in these two. Im very likely to pick havingfitz, just for the simple fact that he is in both possible 1-1s. One with Shadowdacer early in the day when they voted each other. And one with Pie, based in my tracking results.

Ill give a last reread tomorrow and come up with the final decision. We should start thiking in where our votes are going right now, deadline is in 5 days.

[Anon]

I want people to read my #564 alongside Pages 2-4 of this game and see if they agree/disagree.

Okay. I reread until night 1 and the distancing becomes really obvious specially in the first pages. Some posts really scream couching. And Zang as the third scum makes a lot of sense if Pie-having are indeed scum.

I dont feel confortable at all voting along having but his sudden 180 on Pie (check his first posts of the day versus this last post for reference) make me believe that this is an obv dstancing maneuver.

I really think we are going to hit scum today so Id say ShadowDacer to use his 1-shot left if he is very sure he is going to hit scum. If he isnt then we can still lynch ftw tomorrow.

Good night. In case Im being killed please please lynch having tomorrow.

Vote: Pie.

[Anon]

Im really proud of my play in this game. Thx petroleumjelly for the modding. It was perfect. Thx scumpartners for playing cool when things were not looking good. GG all.

[Anon]

TBH, I was kinda scared when you started attacking me, Vasu. If it werent for Shadow, I would have been lynched instead of muh yesterday....