Mafia 1010 - Perpetual MyLo - Game Over

[Exilon]

/confirm

Oh hai Reck. This should become interesting.

[Exilon]

What's a butt-hug?
What's a random lynching Day 1?

[Exilon]

That's not how it works, Reck. First one to get three lynches of the oppoosite side wins. Guess who we are more prone to hit with a random lynch?

I declare your vote is weird and beckons a nicely done OMGUS.
OMGUS (alot), VOTE: Reck.

[Exilon]

That's bad reasoning. A no lynch will make it so that mafia is one townie away of getting majority. It's already hard to play with only an advantage of 2 townies, reducing that number would hurt more than it would help.
That said, UNVOTE: VOTE: Shadow Dancer, and it's obv not a random vote. LETS GO WAGON TIME CAUSE I LIKE TO JUMPSTART GAMES

[Exilon]

Don't ever call me stupid again. That was unnecessary and you read me wrong. It is obviously impossible to gain majority, but with your idea mafia only needs to convince 1 townie to lynch another townie, whereas in the other it's two. they also have to make it look genuine, which is hard to do. That's what I meant.

[Exilon]

Why's Reck scum?
Seriously. I don't see it.

Maybe I'm meta-biased but Reck doesn't really seem like scum to me.

On the other hand, Lowell and Magna (the first more than the latter) are giving me bad vibes. Lowell, motives for the vote please.

[Exilon]

Didn’t you learn anything from Classic Mafia Exilon?

I learned many things, Magna xD One of them is trusting you a bit more since your meta is a little different from what my criteria looks at as being scum. The other was being short and concise. Along with lots of other stuff, but on to serious matters: what's that have to do with Lowell offering a contentless vote?

[Exilon]

Pro-tip: Reck is drunk lots of times. Sometimes, he posts on MS while being drunk. When that happens, you should either ignore it or take advantage of his weakness moment and get the truth out of him.

Damn, I missed his "drunk" period.
By the way, where's the other players?

[Exilon]

Reck, you're not drunk anymore. Contribute.

Please give me some feedback on these thoughts:
• Since we can only afford to No Lynch once, we should ALWAYS aim to lynch.
• We should ONLY consider No Lynching if we have mislynched twice and REALLY want another day to discuss the next lynch.
• Not doing the above significantly increases the chances of a loss due to a deadline.

Love them, QFT.

@ Exilon, can you point out what Reckoner has done in this game that gives you a meta-based town read of him

It's not what he has done that makes him town, it's the lack of what makes him scum. Usually scum-Reck is a little more content with following other people around. Also saying that while drunk. And no, this isn't set on stone. This is the first time I'm playing with him.

@ Everyone voting SD, can you post a concise, dot point case on SD?

I think it's easy to see from what I've said so far why I think he's scummy.

---

DP

I agree with DP, we should all claim. I claim Unkillable-Unlynchable Survivor. Which means I never lose. I'm also a Night 0 Sane Cop, and I investigated DP. Let's all lynch him. He's scum.

---

we're currently short of pages actually.

=/= short of content, which is what we're aiming for. Thanks for contributing.

---

Bad plan... But we should not tollerate any lurking... Absens of Whoever is not officially V/LA should not be tollerated... Maybe we should intriduce a second deadline 48 hours befor the real one, after that town should only vote for the agreed on lynchee, no one else. Problem could be players being V/LA over the DL... Maybe we should also rather FoS than vote before the first deadline to make sure that mafia cannot quicklynch.
But you're definitely right, if there's gonna be a problem it's deinitely the danger of DL no lynchs rather than the danger of mafia waggon hopping in unison...

Firstly, why is it a bad plan? Apart from "mine is obviously better"-type of answers. Next up, how do you suggest we handle lurkers? Don't you think that if mafia quicklynch it'll just become evident that they are scum? Better yet, I feel secure when saying that mafia will not quicklynch. For the following two reasons: 1) they won't quicklynch one of their own; 2) if they quicklynch town then people will figure out what they are. So I doubt that's a viable idea.

---

My comment has nothing to do with your comment on Lowell and everything to do with you ‘gut’ suspicion of me.

Well, I kinda answered to that too. It wasn't really gut, I just didn't really like your motive. In any case, my criteria for you has to be a little different. Last time you were doctor, don't want to repeat that mistake.

---

NINJA TIME

DO NOT LIKE LOWELL VOTE.
Lowell, either start being productive or get the noose.
Thief, either start being productive or get the noose. RVS is long gone and you lost your chance.
Quoi, same as above.

[Exilon]

NPIAU(/nopoint; what should we call you?) forgot to address something which I found important.

No, I'm being serious. I have no fucking clue what you're trying to say in that post. That second bit of the sentence is such a jumble of words and fragments that it's difficult to work out in my head, but I'll try to respond:

How exactly did Knight and I attack his OMGUS and what do you mean 'his main argument to bandwagon'?

---

@Lowell

: Where does Shadow Dancer stand now? Why didn't your vote move, if you find others scummier?

---

What I said that this town - every one, including me - desperately needs to stop to be a bunch of pissed of jerks blindly savaging each other. That will just cause town to turn against itself and give mafia an easy vitory.

I don't like this at all. so far I haven't seen people acting more distrustfully than what is usually seen on normal games, so why are you trying to make this look like 'chaos'?

Thus I consider and will keep to consider most of the attacks against me on this ground antitown and posibly scum driven, my OMGUS votes are well justified.

Your OMGUS votes are not really well justified. I can see so for Reck, but you voted me for disagreeing with you and believing that that strategy was scum faking a genuine attempt at helping town. Also you misread me, called me stupid, and didn't even bother to comment on my post which answered to you, simply changing your vote to Reck in a contentless post, which effectively does not make any mention to the reason you advocated as being the one for the OMGUS vote.

So, wanna keep burying yourself, or...?

[Exilon]

You mentioned a meta-bias on your read of him. I want to see where this comes from. Can you show us how Reckoner isn't playing to a consistent scum-meta?

As I said, it's not set on stone. The how has been stated, the where is Scummer's Greatest Bash, where as scum he played awfully (yet got away with it).
By the way, Destructor, could you please point out what exactly you find scummy about me? I ran a ISO and there's nothing about suspicions on me. There is also NOTHING about Magna. Yet we are on the "possible scum list".

Explain, please.

Also, I approve of the Lowell wagon. Not because I find him necessarily scummy, but because he hasn't got posts for a good evluation to exist. SO LOWELL F* START CONTRIBUTING OR GET HAZED.
For starters:
1) Who's scum? why?

[Exilon]

Don't get into "NO U" natured arguments, please. Magna's question simply didn't really work out to his point. Reck's initial theory-based response served to prove whatever NPIAU was saying wrong. So when you ask, "how do you know Shadow Dance is town, etc*" that question doesn't work because it wasn't Reck who said he "thought" that SD is town, and therefore.

NPIAU says he thinks SD is town and Reck is being "scummy" for being the first on a

town wagon

;
Reck argues that that logic is flawed due to the fact that position of people on a townie's wagon is a null tell;
Magna asks how does Reck know SD is town so as to make Reck's position null.

It is in a way strawmanning, as the argument being discussed isn't that one. Reck is not arguing that SD is town, he's arguing NPIAU's point.

Can we finish this now?

---

@SD:

Sorry for kinda ignoring you. I can get what you say to a certain extent, although I have some doubts as to if it really answer my comment. Still, please answer the rest of the post, if you would. It bothers me when people leave some of my most important comments untouched. I can post the quotes on what I really want you to comment on, if you'd like.

@Lowell:

People aren't going to unvote unless you get something productive, so you might as well start 'thinking' right away. kthxbai

[Exilon]

PS: Destructor: You don't think my 'hate' for 'SD' was justified?

[Exilon]

@SD:

Your OMGUS votes are not really well justified. I can see so for Reck, but you voted me for disagreeing with you and believing that that strategy was scum faking a genuine attempt at helping town. Also you misread me, called me stupid, and didn't even bother to comment on my post which answered to you, simply changing your vote to Reck in a contentless post, which effectively does not make any mention to the reason you advocated as being the one for the OMGUS vote.

So, wanna keep burying yourself, or...?

You just addressed the stupid part from what I could understand (at least directly). Right now, I only need a thorough comment to all of these points.

---

1. Reck’s insistence that it’s a Null tell based on theory alone doesn’t refute NoPoint’s argument.
2. Why is Reck making an argument that is totally theory based as opposed to arguing that it’s not scummy because he’s wagoning Scum?

1) In my opinion, I think it does. But I don't think there's a problem with that.
2) I think this is a fair point, however, NPIAU's main focus was that Reck was scummy for wagoning town, not exactly that Reck was scummy for being on SD. I could see myself answering the same way he did. Rather than proving town/not town, he chose to disprove the theory-based argument that produced that assumption. In the end, both possible "responses" (theory and town/scum) have the same objective.

---

I'll try to read better in the morning, since it's late here.
Holy f*, I want to know how Reck did that table. Wait, I'll just quote him and find out for myself.

Simple: Standard procedure - waggon one by one and look what they say in defense.

I approve of this stance.

Doublevote: Quoi, Thief

Only one at a time? Damn. Fine.
UNVOTE: Shadow Dancer, VOTE: Quoi
Next up is Thief and I'm still leaning scum on Shadow Dancer.

[Exilon]

@Ex: Why don't you let xRx defend himself?

I didn't realize me letting my interpretation known would strip Reck of his right to defend himself.

@Ex: That attack was just lame. Give me one simple reason why scum would come up with it to "fake helping town" as you said (I don't cathegoricall say they won't, but I consider it rather unlikely, but that's based on what I would most likely do as scum, and sometimes I just do the unlikely, just to confuse people... WIFOMatics!).

Best part about this quote is that you actually state the simplest reason as to why scum would do so in that same quote. If you know that, then why bother asking me? Also, WIFOM? lol. What a great defense.

In any case, I'll do even better and provide you with a GOOD reason for why scum would come up with that specific theory:

A no lynch will make it so that mafia is one townie away of getting majority. It's already hard to play with only an advantage of 2 townies, reducing that number would hurt more than it would help.

In other words, it is a way to jumpstart the game with an actual strategy that only superficially helps town.

Here, I just have to do this.

ALL SCUM PLAY SO AS TO LOOK TOWN AS POSSIBLE, BUT WANT TOWNIES TO DIE.

Therefore, I considered and still consider you scummy for making a strategy which I showed to be hurtful to town, while superficially looking to it would induce people to think your strategy was a genuine and good attempt at helping town!

Just by the presence of that theory, I can conclude this! What do you think, everyone?~
(If you don't get the joke, don't bother.)

---

Exilon, is your username based on this guy?

No.

Why are you voting me, and why are you voting me after advocating lurker wagons?
You know you can't vig DP but you can lynch him.

---

Thanks for bussing Lowell.

Claim time, Quoi.

...this is win.
You should both just die. And DP too.

My thoughts on SD are as follows:
-He's posted a lot.
-He makes big walls of text that I don't have the energy to read
-He was wagonned real early real fast and is probably town

Like, a seriously painful lynch.

[Exilon]

@Ex: Sorry man, but according to your loging every one in this game who ever dared to vote any one acted majorly anti-townish, especially when that one made the scond vote on a waggon, possibly enabling - as you say - scum to just do a united quick hammer. As has been pointed out multiple times by now - anyway it's just basic common sense - that is just not likely to happen.
In your words: Mafia wants - needs - to blend in as town - they just won't do it! Not now, at least. Period. I consider LyLo vs. MyLo the least concern in mafia considerations in this reagard. The difference boils down to a 1/4:1/3 chance of victory... But that discussion has been modkilled... So I won't pick it up again ;..(

This is awful.
1) According to my.. loging... what?
2) "anyone in this game who ever dared to vote any one acted majorly anti-townish" <-- hum, when did I say this? It doesn't follow what I wrote. AT ALL.
3) Are you serious?

especially when that one made the scond vote on a waggon, possibly enabling - as you say - scum to just do a united quick hammer. As has been pointed out multiple times by now - anyway it's just basic common sense - that is just not likely to happen.

It's basic common sense yet you yourself were pointing it as being a dangerous possibility on #92 . On #110 I even went as far as to comment on that and completely destroying that danger, pointing yet again an argument made by you which only superficially "helps town". (= fake attempt at being productive.). You never commented on it, either.

contradiction much?

---

@Destructor:

Yes, I'd like you to comment on this quote from my last post which you never bothered to address.

No.

Why are you voting me, and why are you voting me after advocating lurker wagons?
You know you can't vig DP but you can lynch him.

[Exilon]

--'

Can someone help me? I have no idea of whatSD's post #238 sense is or what's it responding to. I'm serious - I can't make head or tails of it, and it's starting to annoy me. SD basically quotes my whole post and comments about something which isn't clear at all, not addressing anything in particular.

@ex: Oh, loging = logic, but you could have deduced that from the context if you'd ever dare to think further than your nosetip...

And if you'd dare paying more attention and being more careful with what you're writing instead of just dabbling things carelessly you would have avoided making that small mistake.

It's hard to misspell logic to loging, and you'd have obviously noticed it had you reread and paid attention to what you were writing. My point is, stop being anti-town and start thinking about what you write. Also you're offending me. Please stop.

[Exilon]

Right. Lowell's wagon.
I approve of it, but I'd like the rest of the players to post first.

[Exilon]

IF we run him up to L1 we'll probably have another scumquicklynch unless he's actualy scum.
...This is too WIFOM, let's just avoid that risk.

[Exilon]

People against the wagon: (Lowell, molestargazer, Exilon)

I don't recall being against the wagon. I do recall giving a reason for not voting right away.

Lowell's defense/answer to the post seems to come a bit late, which is scummy in my book. Also voting for a lurker, mueh. Lowell, you're burying yourself. Please, keep going.

[Exilon]

It's no where at the moment. What about it?

[Exilon]

– Neither of you were on the Lowell wagon Day 1. Do you not find him scummy?

I didn't really at the time, he was no better than David Parker, Quoi, or Thief. But his actions today are poinging in a different direction.

Then either FOS or just vote elsewhere. Setting here and doing nothing (which is what you are doing today) is useless to Town.

My main suspicion isn't posting and I already said I approved of his wagon, and also explained why I wasn't voting. You've just said the same thing as rena, and none of you is right, and I'm quite bewildered by this. Do you really need a

FOS: Lowell

? what's the difference between that and saying I approve of his wagon and that I don't want to take the risk of a L1 quicklynch?

[Exilon]

This day should not end so fast.
David is scum, btw. <.<

[Exilon]

Because I 'am' on the Lowell wagon.

[Exilon]

DP has a playstyle? Am I missing something?

[Exilon]

No, you aren’t. Saying you support something without actually voting isn’t being on a wagon.

Saying you don’t want the Day to end so soon while doing ZERO scum-hunting for Lowell’s partners is scummy.

Really? If I vote him, then we'll be at a danger of a quicklynch-ends day, which is not what I want. So I 'AM' (did you ntoice the '' ? Guess not.) in his wagon. What is there to scumhunt? My main suspicion is not around, join that with my other suspects and I pretty much have the whole scum team nailed down already. Of course my attitude changed, people only need to scumhunt when they have to look for scum, and at this point, I've searched enough. (Also blame real life stuff for the slight lack of participation.).

And it is a bit of a demotivator to say something and then have someone (Rena, you) completely ignore it, and then ASK ABOUT IT. I know you've been both reading up, so why did you miss me specifically?

Yeah, you are missing the Town mindset. You aren’t scum-hunting today, you aren’t voting for your ‘top candidate’, and you are whining about the day potentially ending while doing nothing constructive with the time.

You're answering that quote wrong.
I am waiting for Shadow Dancer to come. When he comes, and states his piece of mind, I'll decide if I should keep going at it or just declare that there isn't nothing else to be done for today. Why would be not voting for my top candidate scummy? That simply does not make sense. And I'm not whining, I only stated that fact once. But do keep blowing things out of proportion, it makes your argument look amazing.

What constructive?
SD is scum.
Lowell is scum.
DavidParker is scum.
BrianJ was scum.

We need three scum caught to win out of five. They're all there. Wanna prove me wrong? Go ahead. What scumhunting is left to be done?

[Exilon]

And it's stuff to which I want him to answer. That's what I want him to come back to, it's already there. Seriously, we have time. So what's the rush?

[Exilon]

Wait, since when is being fair to players and giving them a chance to catch up a bad thing?

[Exilon]

If you truly believed that you had the whole scum-team nailed down and that Lowell is not even your top suspect why aren’t you voting that person (who I assume to be Shadow)?

Cause we're not lynching Shadow today, we're lynching Lowell. And I also don't like to analyze voting paterns, this being one of the reasons and the other cause I don't really see those patterns. For me, having a vote on SD or not won't change anything. I'm talking about the air-quotes " ". "am" =/= am. I meant that even though I'm not voting Lowell for reasons stated, I "am" on Lowell's wagon.

You say we need to catch 3 of 5 scum, then list 4 players and say “They’re all there”. 4 does not equal 5.

4 equals 3 plus one.
My argument still stands.
kthxbai.

When you object to voting Lowell on the basis of ending the day early, then state that someone else is your top suspect and fail to vote for them it is indeed scummy. The only harm in moving your vote from Shadow to Lowell after Shadow’s return would be in leaving a clear voting trail. Only scum worry about that in this game. Yes, not being on record with a vote the entire day is scummy.

Vote: Shadow

AND YET NOTHING HAS CHANGED, HOW GREAT IS THIS HUH.
I think it is my turn to say "have you not learned anything from classic mafia"? Remember why I was dubbed scummy?

[Exilon]

I found all the scum I need to win. Yippie? Yippie.
From Classic MAfia, the attack from Day 2 was also based on MY RELUCTANCE TO VOTE. Remember?

I told everyone who's scum. I asked you to prove me wrong. Yet you're doing nothing of the sort. If I'm town and you're town, then we're supposed to be working toghether. So if you don't think they're scum, tell me why and we can discuss it. If you do think they're scum, then what are you complaining about?

[Exilon]

I'll be V/LA until the 16th. I'll still try to be around as much as possible.

[Exilon]

Evidence suggests the fifth scum element is active. That, SD and brianj, and there's 3 active members. Lowell isn't exactly a lurker, so only DP is a lurker from that list.

[Exilon]

I know I got replaced out, but I accompanied this game for a while =)
Congratulations to the scum team

Thoughts on mechanics?
Thoughts on pace?
Thoughts on balance?

The game actually has quite a good mechanic, although, in my belief, a little tipped to the mafia's side. The fact there are so many mafia makes it easier to plan ahead and make a powerful force (because the more informed the minority is, the more powerful it gets). However, people have to realize that it takes a whole different strategy to approach a setup like this. In any case, the setup is pretty much unflawed - I have no real suggestion to improve it. In terms of balancing, seems to me that scum-hammer then sacrifice is a strategy that greatly benefits the scum team, as they should be killing of their most suspicious members. Maybe introducing a 3- town mason group could even the setup a bit (but make it so that they can't nightkill or recruit.). It counters both the information overhaul from a 5-scum team and their nightkill ability. (for example, they won't be killing only the strongest town player, but maybe be looking for the masons as well).

This leads me to wonder what kind of swing this setup can get with varied roles as well. If you ever decide to whip one of those up, please give me a call, eh? =) I'd like to play it =)

Thoughts on modding?

Great modding overall =) Although short, the flavour was good =)