Mafia 1010 - Perpetual MyLo - Game Over

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Hi.

So far as I can make from the rules, the Mafia only get to kill if a lynch occurs, so we'd gain discussion time from no lynch occurring but not much else.

Mod:

What happens if we haven't reached a lynch by deadline?

SD seems to be OMGUSing and I liked something he said, so I'm leaning town. I haven't played in some time and the only player I recognise is Lowell, who I remember lurking like a motherfucker.

Vote: Lowell

Reckoner, can you tell us why Exilon is town?

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Votes as I counted them:
SD (3) - Ex, Reck, KoZ
KoZ (1) - nop
Reck (2) - SD, Magna
Lowell (1) - des

Um, pretty sure we only need 2 townies to vote town to mislynch, so, maybe we should be careful or something. What I liked about SD I do not like so much in this context.

I need to consider this game's mechanics a bit more. But I'm going to bed now.

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I'm still going to bed.

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Your questions are all answered in a thread. Mafia kill Town player if no lynch occurs, and if there is no lynch by deadline read Max.

I swear rule 6 wasn't there before... >.>

Same question to you: what exactly did SD said that made you feel SD is town?

I'll say tomorrow, or once a few more players show up.

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I don't have much time to post and am very tired.

Please give me some feedback on these thoughts:
• Since we can only afford to No Lynch once, we should ALWAYS aim to lynch.
• We should ONLY consider No Lynching if we have mislynched twice and REALLY want another day to discuss the next lynch.
• Not doing the above significantly increases the chances of a loss due to a deadline.

In my fatigued state, that seems fairly comprehensive to me and I hope it can put the lynch/no lynch discussion to rest.

---

@ brianj

,

That being said: Let's stop this whole discussion now and start some real scumhunting! Yes: With real discussiun and real votes and a real lynch threat. And I mean that.

@ Exilon

, can you point out what Reckoner has done in this game that gives you a meta-based town read of him?

@ Everyone voting SD

, can you post a concise, dot point case on SD?

Also, can we try to keep banter/noise to a minimum? Especially battles of the ego? They're lame and clutter the thread.

What do you guys think of a day 1 mass-roleclaim?

Wtf?

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^ I find this kind of sarcastic wankery really irritating. If that's all someone has to post I think they're better off not posting at all.
PLEASE don't give this game more pages than it needs. <3

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Re: SD, I don't understand what his wagon was about. The biggest event I saw was his "OMGUS" vote on Exilon/Reckoner and his theorising, neither of which I see as reason to believe he is scum. Magma's vote seemed to come mostly from disliking SD's strategy suggestions, which again I don't see as a reason to believe SD is scum (in fact I believe his ideas have been fairly valid besides the reliance on scum choosing to kill after a no lynch). I found his comment about SD looking "worse for the wear" from his debate with Reckoner odd. Lowell's vote also seems very insubstantial and easy. KnightofZero's vote seemed random to me and placed before the SD wagon seemed serious. Not sure if much can be read from that.

Suggesting that theorising is scummy or anti-town is bullshit. SD made specific mentions of cold, hard probabilities and how certain actions could

increase the town's chance of winning

. Unless those players that had a problem with this checked his numbers and found them to be false or misleading, I don't see how they could see that as much else than dictionary pro-town.

@ Reckoner

, OMGUS to me is something only a townie can do - "Omg i'm town and you're voting me so you must be scum!". How did SD's OMGUS votes make you think he was more likely scum? If it didn't, then what made you "keep thinking of more reasons" to want to lynch him?
Also, I didn't see Exilon's post you linked to as obviously town. Can you point to specific examples of Exilon's town play that made you think of his town-meta?

It's not what he has done that makes him town, it's the lack of what makes him scum. Usually scum-Reck is a little more content with following other people around. Also saying that while drunk. And no, this isn't set on stone. This is the first time I'm playing with him.

You mentioned a meta-bias on your read of him. I want to see where this comes from. Can you show us how Reckoner isn't playing to a consistent scum-meta?


I'd say there's scum in {Exilon, Reckoner, Magma, Lowell, KoZ/molestargazer}.

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we're currently short of pages actually.

=/= short of content, which is what we're aiming for. Thanks for contributing.

<3
This almost makes me want to put Exilon in my town list.

destructor, can you further explain how

That being said: Let's stop this whole discussion now and start some real scumhunting! Yes: With real discussiun and real votes and a real lynch threat. And I mean that.

is town-tell? It is null tell at best; mafia has nothing to lose by casually saying "guys lets discuss" without actually providing something to discuss about.

Sorry, I should have specified. It was the "real lynch threat" part I liked. That along with what looked like OMGUSing made me think he was likely town.

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1) OMGUS is a null tell, just stop. Scum can just as easily go, "OMG you're attacking me so I'm going to counter-vote you!"
2) Because it was a weak response to Exilon. He switched from a "serious vote" on me to a "serious vote" on Exilon, all because of theory debate.
3) It did.

The point I make is that only a pro-town player can "honestly" get all OMGUSy. That's how I see the term. This is a semantic thing for me. OMGUS is a shit argument from any alignment, so I tend to see it as bad play more than anything else. But, if it looks genuine, then I can't help seeing it as a minor town-tell. In 2), it's like you're saying you thought SD was scummy for making a poor argument, which is forgivable on page 2, but then you went on to say this:

Your wagon is becoming more attractive because I keep thinking of more reasons I want to lynch you.

Did you have more reasons? What were they?


This is what's irked me about you and Exilon. You both made claims of reading each other as town based on meta, but didn't do much to back that up. You both also seemed totally interested in lynching SD. Then steam grew on the SD wagon and it didn't feel kosher.

Now you've explained what that meta experience is, and it doesn't seems especially solid. Making a quick temporary'ish call about who's town early in the game makes sense to me - I like doing that. But it was the apparent insistence on the town-reads of each other that I found harder to believe.


I'm pretty content with my vote on Lowell.
Lowell, you can contribute just fine without anyone having to unvote.

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By the way, Destructor, could you please point out what exactly you find scummy about me? I ran a ISO and there's nothing about suspicions on me. There is also NOTHING about Magna. Yet we are on the "possible scum list".

Explain, please.

I cover it in my last post. Basically, your involvement in the SD-hate and clearing of Reckoner based on very little.

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TRIPLE POST

Oh, and Magma's on the list for voting SD over theory.

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Shit, sorry, QUADRUPLE POST.

Everyone on my list voted SD, including Lowell and KoZ/mole. Lowell got bonus points for his vote and general lurking, which I admit I've seen him do as town as well. But I'm a fan of lynching lurkers. Looking forward to hearing from mole.

Basically, I think we'll definitely find scum on the SD wagon.

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Sorry, busier weekend than I expected.

@ SD

, what's your read on brian?

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PS: Destructor: You don't think my 'hate' for 'SD' was justified?

I don't, no. I don't think he played especially well at the start of the game, but I didn't find it especially scummy either. That said...

@dest: I haven't got a clear read of brian so far. I dislike his attack on me for obvious reasons, especially because he bases it on another we just finished together where I was mafia and he investigated me as cop, resulting in massive tunnel syndrome... (And Agressive play is not a scumtell but more or less a necessity).

What sparked your interest in brian?

The bolded bit:

@brian: Simply: No. But you can look into my Wiki article. Or maybe in one of my marathon games... But maybe you'd just realize that I've got both a flexible scum and town meta. Every game is different, you know.

Maybe you should get rid of your "I'm cop and have a guilty on SD" mentality - that was newbiw 958.

This is a different game!

You seem to be implying very heavily that brian is town.

I've just read the last few pages properly and decided that nop is either

a massive douche

rather proud or scum, or both.

I'm mildly irked by Magma pushing the argument that Reck knows SD is town. I thought it was clear he was referring to theory at the time and it seems like a stretch to see it otherwise.

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Why would you make a post just to say "scum is on the SD wagon", which seems to be pretty obvious considering the number of scum in this game? In the best light it is still WIFOM and I do not like how you use that single statement to further support your suspicions.

I like to narrow suspects down based on specific events/wagons/etc., when I scum-hunt. It saves my brain having to consider more variables than it needs to.

Considering what I've seen since, I'd rank them something like this:
{Magma, (Exilon, Reckoner), Lowell, mole}

I suspect that one or both of Exilon and Reckoner is scum.

Hey Thief

, what are your thoughts on SD?


I approve of lurker-wagoning.
L-2's a pretty good place for a lurker to be.


Exilon, is your username based on this guy?

Unvote
Vote: Exilon

I think I'd vig DP if I had the ability.

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My thoughts on SD are as follows:
-He's posted a lot.
-He makes big walls of text that I don't have the energy to read
-He was wagonned real early real fast and is probably town

You're implying that Mafia were responsible for the early/fast wagon? So, which players on the wagon are scum? Why?

@destructor: Let's see what brai does next, OK.

That won't address what I quoted. Your appeal to brian seems to be based on you already seeing him as a tunnelling townie.

destructor is not nearly as pro-town as he thinks he is.

Why?

Lowell, I don't know why DP voted Exilon, but Exilon's not lurking.

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lol

Guys, I'm going to be V/LA in about 48 hours. I've let Max know that I may need replacement since I'll be away for over a week and may not have net access. I won't have much free time tomorrow, but if anyone has anything specific they'd like to ask me, tomorrow may be the last chance I get to respond. I'll make sure I get at least one post in before I leave.

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Sorry I had to replace out - thanks to Rena for filling in. It's good to see scum won this in the end. Good work guys.

I'm not sure how I would have found the game as town. It didn't seem to me like you guys played especially strongly as a team. I don't know how much that had to do with the setup as opposed to individuals' play. I do feel like the town could have done much better in this setup, though.

I thought it was crazy that wicked basically named the entire scum team on replacing in.

-dest/rena: Just brilliant. I cannot dey that, especially that PM-maneure, although I think that was just another huge mod error. A mod should not be a henchman of scum to that extend, especially in a game that is already designed in heavy favour of scum.

How do you know Rena didn't make it up?

She didn't, but she could have, so I don't think Max did anything wrong there.

Also, SD, I think you had spirit in this game but it seems like you need to work on your teamwork. Calling your team members VI's probably isn't going to be helpful. Your team lost and you got lynched, so something went wrong somewhere and I think it's short sighted to say it was everyone else's fault. It was the way

you

played that allowed your lynch to happen.

Thanks for modding, Max!