/in-vitational 7 - Save Cow's Mind! (after 1014)

[DeathRowKitty]

/CONFIRM RECEIPT OF ROLE PMMMMMMM

I AM FOLLOWING UNCERTAINKITTEN'S AWESOME EXAMPLE AND TALKING LIKE FATE BECAUSE HE'S AWESOME AND SHOULD HAVE BEEN IN THIS GAME

THERE SHALL BE NO LOWER-CASE LETTERS IN THIS GAME!!

[DeathRowKitty]

16) You may request

an

vote count at any time in the thread or via PM. Please do not spam requests for them every other post

^ Is that bothering anyone else or is it just me?

I don't have a clue what you're talking about - Cow

[DeathRowKitty]

LYNCH ALL LIARS! DRK HAS NOT FOLLOWED THE FELLOWSHIP OF SOCIOPATH FAITHFULLY!

VOTE DEATHROWKITTY!

NOOOOOOO! I DIDN'T MEAN TO! PLEASE DON'T KICK ME OUT OF THE SECRET SOCIOPATH SOCIETY

COW, STOP SCREWING WITH ME!

[DeathRowKitty]

Random questions don't get a game going. People arguing against random questions get a game going.....or we can just have a RVS. I prefer the latter. Then again, the fact that I made this post may lead us into the former.

[DeathRowKitty]

The problem is that there's nothing significant that's happened in the game to ask about, which just draws discussion away from the game. If there is anything to ask about, it's more efficient to just discuss it anyway.

[DeathRowKitty]

so hard

Keep it it Guys Pt. 2 please.

[DeathRowKitty]

DeathRowKitty: I hate your avatar, can I be in your sig too

You can be on my hit list.

1. Please provide me with a sample of your town and scum metas.
2. Do you prefer town-hunting or scum-hunting?
4. Which of the following are scumtells: lurking, lying, being annoying, off-topic discussion, voting without immediately giving reasons?
8. Do you think you should out your town reads?
16. Are there any days or times of day we should not expect you to be posting on a regular basis?

First thing's first: numbering with powers of 2 is AWESOME.
1. There's a surprisingly good chance both of my metas are outdated. My town meta is pretty much all over the place to begin with though. Sometimes I'll pick someone and tunnel until that person is lynched. Sometimes I'll call half the players scum in one day. I'm not sure I can pick a game that would really encapsulate my town meta. As for my scum meta, well, why would I want to give you that?
2. Town-hunting >>>>> scum-hunting. It's just easier. I tend to scumhunt though.
4. None of those are by themselves unless committed by KittyMo. Speaking of which,

vote: KittyMo

. She knows why.
8. Outing town reads has a worse rep than it deserves. I tend only to out controversial town reads though (people in more danger of lynch than of NK).
16. when I'm sleeping

[DeathRowKitty]

Noooooo, my vote didn't count!

VOTE: KittyMo

I know what you're all thinking: why am I voting KittyMo if Faraday is more likely to be scum? Well, maybe you're not all thinking that, but that's not my problem.

DRK do you think SFG's questions drew discussion away from the game? Isn't that what you objected to on the top of the page. I don't see why you'd bother answering them if you think that's the case, or maybe I'm missing something here isn't what SFG did basically a RQS (ugh at the terms )

I wasn't going to ignore my BFF :S

[DeathRowKitty]

Oh, hey, I see my name a lot. People must love me!

For example, spammy DRK discrediting Neto about RQS and then answering

KM

SFG thoroughly without complaint looks bad. Plus obv softclaims are obv.

First off, if you think I softclaimed, you're reading way too much into something. (Well, I did softclaim something, but it has nothing to do with my role or alignment.) As for answering SFG's questions, I quote something I said in another game where I took a little heat for something similar. First though, the situation was as follows: The Inquisition announced early on that he would start the game by asking questions. I said I would answer, but that he'd also earned my random vote.

I am confused as to why someone would wish to vote for a person who suggested an idea and also agree to doing the idea.I would agree to doing the idea to some extent.

If there are questions out there being asked, I won't ignore them. That's just anti-town. Doesn't mean I plan on giving up my "random" vote (which isn't exactly random now), especially since the only other game I've had with questions early on (Vi started off with a survey) didn't quite get off to a fast start.

Plus, I wasn't going to give SFG a hard time over something like that. We're BFFs. <3

DeathRowKitty: Why did you proceed to answer the questions and include a buddying message to SFG?

See earlier in this post.

No. Clearly there WASN'T a night start since there was no nightkill. If anything, Ythill just outed himself as a PR.

Why did you find it necessary to point out that you thought he outed himself as a PR? Wouldn't that be something you'd want to keep to yourself? Also, obligatory "no u" comment in regards to your random vote.

unvote Vote DRK

can we wrap day 1 up now?

Why so hasty?

More srs scumhunting and a vote coming in my next post.

[DeathRowKitty]

So, I started scumhunting and ended up townhunting instead. When I was done, I just kind of picked one of the scummier remaining players. VOTE: Reckoner. Hello SK.

Yeah, yeah, I know this post isn't all I made it sound like it would be, but I actually have a few decent reads now.

---

@Ythill
It's just like in the game I linked. Answering questions in general shouldn't hurt, but they don't start a game off. That's why I also random voted.

[DeathRowKitty]

2 comments:

1. KittyMo is prob-town
2. I have reason to believe that "pseudo-breaking the rules," as KittyMo called it, won't actually help us with anything.

[DeathRowKitty]

See? None of you have any case on me (Faraday for saying I "confirmed" it, or however he said it, BS <_<, SFG for saying the wincon was different for him)

Why are you getting so defensive about that?

[DeathRowKitty]

I'm not, unless unvotes are mandatory.

[DeathRowKitty]

DRK's burnt out on MS

Not really. I'm just lurking for now.

[DeathRowKitty]

I know I haven't been participating....at all basically. I'm ready to change that now. Don't expect any big cases from me (blame chat mafia), but I'm ready to start playing a bit more like I should be.

I'm no longer particularly happy with my Reckoner vote.

Unvote

. That's not to say I've accepted him as town, but I'm leaning more that way than when I voted him.

This post makes me willing to vote Dram.

Vote: Dramonic

I'm actually pretty sure I know TL's role. Given what I know, his suspicion of me isn't unreasonable. It also makes me more suspicious of him though. (This will make A LOT more sense later on. For now, just accept it.)

Neto-scum definitely wouldn't surprise me. Something about him has been rubbing me the wrong way, but I can't quite place what. I probably won't be voting him until I figure that out.

Cuttlefish is a bit of a curveball for me atm. Well, he's more of a screwball, but we're talking about my read, not his personality. He was one of the players I didn't get much of a read on the first time I collected reads and I haven't done much reading since then tbh. IGMEOY Nik and it's not just for your stunningly good looks (The screwball thing was said with the utmost love >_>)

I have some form of a town read on most players not mentioned yet in this post. The biggest wild card of those players is Faraday, who's been a bit odd so far to say the least.

[DeathRowKitty]

ITT, Dram needs to stop rolling a die to choose his suspects. He hit 2 obv-town out of 3 suspects.

I'm not against a mass name claim.

1) Unvotes me...but makes sure to leave the door open to revote me if necessary with his "well I'm not convinced he's town" disclaimer.
2) Lays down a vote on dramonic, which isn't inherently scummy because dram is active lurking pretty hardcore...but DRK didn't VOTE for him because he was active lurking, he votes for him based off of some random one-off post and doesn't explain what he finds scummy about it WHAT.SO.EVER. It just reeks of scum pushing a case on a lurker and digging up awful
3) Softclaims some kind of role for TL and attempts to stop the current wagon?
4) Tosses suspicion Neto's way and doesn't actually provide any support. Just goes "something rubs me the wrong way lol see how im preparing myself to jump on that wagon?"

1) Unless you find yourself to be obv-town, this is a moot point.
2) Meh, I was hoping to get away without explaining what I found scummy about that post. It was just something about the wording. It sounded like his comment was very forced, as if he was trying to hard to make a town-sounding post about it. That + his not posting content = enough for a vote
3) I'm not sure which wagon it is you think I was trying to stop. In fact, I'm pretty sure I put a vote on the largest wagon (or the one that was most popular at the time, at the very least).
4) If I decide to vote him, I'll be sure to give a little more support then

[DeathRowKitty]

@Reck
1) I forgot the clause that pro-town players must know every player's alignment at all times. My apologies.
2) The whole thing sounded forced, but I don't think that's what you meant to ask. As for the arbitrary thing, well, that's why I avoided explaining it in the first place
3) I'm not seeing it at all. I have no idea what part of my post you think was supposed to derail TL's wagon.
4) See #1

@Dram
You are certainly

entitled

to your own opinions. If you're scum, you're certainly entitled to make up your own opinions too.

[DeathRowKitty]

Stop trying to make your role so obvious. I was trying to be subtle about what I think it is.

[DeathRowKitty]

Nameclaim: Bioware

[DeathRowKitty]

Also, I'm stealing post 314.

[DeathRowKitty]

KM will qualify for a prod in about two hours, please prod her at that time.

She's V/LA until August 6. Speaking of August 6...

Mod, I'll be V/LA from August 6 until August 11

[DeathRowKitty]

I assume DRK has the same flavor, sort of, in

her

his pm

I agree with the people who have said scumhunting using role names is useless. Everyone's role name seems to be something the mod has a positive view of. I really doubt he took the three he liked least and made them scum.

I wouldn't be completely opposed to a TL lynch. It's not one of my top few choices right now and I'd just be voting him purely on the basis of him being a neighbor. I don't find him particularly scummy aside from that.

The opposition to the Dram wagon is really starting to bug me to be honest. I might need to reconsider my read on him. In fact, there's a decent chance my vote will move from him before I go V/LA tomorrow.

Other than that, obv-town keep obv-towning and questionable players continue to be questionable. I'm going to reread and see if I find anything new.

[DeathRowKitty]

why is the opposition bugging you? I think the main opposition has been reck and to a lesser extend myself.

this is 2 players who one you think has 'been a bit odd to say the least' (I don't think I have ftr, my play's been quite straightforward I think) and the other is someone you don't really have any read on.

The opposition that has been there has been very loud. If Dram's scum, either there are townies out there that legitimately think he's town or there are two scum screaming their heads off to stop the wagon. Either way, there would be something odd going on if Dram were scum.

[DeathRowKitty]

Well, I didn't post last night because [insert excuse here]. Any post I made last night would have been terrible.

I'm leaving soon, but there's something I want to point out quickly:

Also I

couldn't

didn't talk to DRK pre-game.

^ FTFY

We could talk pre-game. He just never responded to me.

Other than that, I agree with UK-town (and have since page 1).

Unvote

until I get back. I'm not actually sure if I was voting, but I'd rather not have my vote fixed for the next 5 days if I was.

[DeathRowKitty]

I've read everything I've missed, but I don't actually remember much of it, so no post now. I'll be back tomorrow. Fun.

I don't really think TL is scum, but tbh, I don't care if we lynch him or not. I'm drilling the hell out of him during the night if we don't.

That's it for today. Bye.

[DeathRowKitty]

I'm also not sure what I think about the difference between DRK claiming that they could talk pre-game but TL didn't respond vs. TL's statement that they couldn't talk pre-game. I have no idea why one of them would lie about this, but it does puzzle me.

I said something and he didn't respond. Not sure how difficult you think it is to determine the truth here.

I reread TL's posts. I called him town last night on the grounds of "zomg scum would never want to be lynched." I changed my mind. He's trying too hard. Consider this an "I'd vote TL now if I weren't so goddamn lazy that I refuse to look for a votecount."

Other than that, two comments:
1) So many people are obv-town right now that one or two people reading closely is probably all we need to break this open. That person will not be me right now.
2) If this game gets past night 2 and I'm still too messed up to play properly, I'll replace out. I've done enough damage to this game as it is.

[DeathRowKitty]

Your only reason I'm scum is that I'm a neighbor. Now stop vomitting all over the thread.

[DeathRowKitty]

Vote: TheLonging

[DeathRowKitty]

@TL
Explain how this helps if you're town.

[DeathRowKitty]

Fine. I believe you.

Vote: xRECKONERx

[DeathRowKitty]

Yep, you caught me!

[DeathRowKitty]

I think you made the wrong analogy, personally. I could probably sit down and watch paint dry for several hours (well, if not for the paint fumes maybe). Sure, not much *seems* to be happening, but, deep down, I'd know that paint was drying. Heck, I'd probably be the idiot that sits there and checks every few minutes and ends up with paint all over himself. Then, in one final climactic moment, it would all be over. The paint dries.

The analogy you should have made was grass growing. Sure, you could sit there and examine the grass for a while, but it's just grass. Every blade of grass, to a large extent, looks the same as every other blade of grass. You can watch it for 3 hours, 4 hours, 5 hours, but it's not changing. Sure, they *say* it's growing, but would you really know if it doesn't? Take my advice: check on the grass for a few minutes, go watch the paint dry, and then come back. You'll thank me for it. Maybe not today and maybe not tomorrow, but eventually. Maybe once the grass has grown.

[DeathRowKitty]

"Only the living have truly experienced death." -Socrates

Interpret that as you wish.

[DeathRowKitty]

Excuse to end the day? Find by me.

Vote: TheLonging

[DeathRowKitty]

Stuff to say to each player. At least one of them means something useful. A few of you may know which.

Cuttlefish: Stop making me forget. Also, *cuddle*
DeathRowKitty: Why are you in every game I am? Stop stalking me, creep.
dramonic: You're voting me. I don't like you.
Faraday: ur 1 weerd dood
Haylen: Lurk moar.
KittyMo: I'm town.
Netopalis: You read about the same to me as Haylen. Take that as you wish.
SFG: You're annoying, but I still <3 you. Also, you're obv-town.
xRECKONERx: You're voting me. I don't like you.
Ythill: Rock on, bro.

Vote: Reckoner

[DeathRowKitty]

@Reckoner
I was voting you day 1 before I switched to TL. It's not OMGUS, regardless of what your caps say.

[DeathRowKitty]

I'll post one later if I feel like it....sheesh, I haven't made a case in at least a few months x.x

[DeathRowKitty]

I mean that [DRK]'s more confirmed town than any night action could say.

I drastically disagree that Kitty is scum [...] ALL I KNOW IS WE NEED TO LYNCH DRK MMKAY?

ITT, Reckoner practices selective reading.

Also,

V/LA August 22 - August 25

for college-related things. The LA should be more near the beginning of that and the V near the end. I'll probably have less access than usual from the 26th through the 29, but not as noticeably.

[DeathRowKitty]

RECKONER, STOP BEING BLIND DAMMIT

JUST BECAUSE YOU POST SOMETHING IN ALL CAPS DOESN'T MAKE IT TRUE. IT JUST MAKES IT SOUND OBNOXIOUS AND IT MAKES YOU LOOK LIKE A BIT IDIOT WHEN YOU'RE WRONG

OH LOL DRK MUST BE SCUM BECAUSE HE'S BARELY TRYING. YEAH, THAT'S THE ONLY F'N REASON SOMEONE DOESN'T PLAY HARD IN MAFIA. REAL LIFE? LOLWUT.

GO TUNNEL ON SOMEONE ELSE. YOU'RE BARKING UP THE WRONG TREE AND I'M JUST WAITING FOR THE SQUIRRELS TO START THROWING ACORNS AT YOU

ALSO, THIS IS PROBABLY MY LAST POST UNTIL FRIDAY NIGHT. HAVE FUN WITHOUT ME. DON'T GET HIT BY TOO MANY FLYING ACORNS.

[DeathRowKitty]

Time for another post before I leave.

@Ythill
If you were from #mafia, what KittyMo said would make more sense. It has nothing to do with an accidental fakeclaim on her part.

[DeathRowKitty]

I'm making assumptions because I'm 100% sure I know why she called me town. It was completely expected and the action of calling me town on her part is completely null. If you want to not believe that I'm town, that's fine, but I guarantee you, and SFG, Nik, and/or Haylen might be able to back me up on this, that KittyMo's calling me town wasn't a slip and isn't a scum tell.

@Reckoner
I didn't call Ythill scum.

[DeathRowKitty]

Guys, I found the Internet. I'm actually going to be limited access through Sunday though. I'll check the thread occasionally and respond to anything in need of immediate attention.

[DeathRowKitty]

I confirm that no one in America cares about soccer.

Nothing else particularly important to comment on right now. I'll (hopefully) start doing some rereading Sunday, but probably not.

[DeathRowKitty]

I'm too confused about the fact that you posted that to respond >_>

I wrote some notes for myself during the night just to collect my thoughts. I might post those...not that they really help anything though.

[DeathRowKitty]

They were just brief personal notes of what I remembered from day 1 and are hardly useful for actual scumhunting. Since you asked

so nicely

, I'll post them anyway for your enjoyment or something:

"Player list for my reference:
Cuttlefish
DeathRowKitty
dramonic
Faraday
Haylen
KittyMo
Netopalis
SFG
TheLonging
UncertainKitten
xRECKONERx
Ythill

TL already died and flipped town. I suppose that wasn't particularly unexpected. I probably shouldn't have voted him, but oh well, it got the day over with. Unfortunately, it also makes me a likely mislynch target for tomorrow, especially with players who are assuming there has to be one scum neighbor.

I've been assuming KittyMo and UncertainKitten were town since page 1. I can't be sure I was justified in getting those reads so early, but at least it made me feel like I was doing something. Both reads seem like they were probably right, but I'm still not 100% on UK.

I was assuming SFG was town for most of the day (hopefully for game-related reasons), but I'll admit some of her posts were a bit odd. I still want to call her town though.

I had reservations about Faraday early, but I'm really thinking it was just his playstyle. I'd guess he's town.

Eliminating those players from my list (and myself, since I'm town), that leaves me with:
Cuttlefish
dramonic
Haylen
Netopalis
xRECKONERx
Ythill

Ythill was obv-town for most of the day, but something about him strikes me as being off. I'll definitely need a reread at some point to say anything more conclusive about him.

Reckoner was my most consistent scum read day 1. I could be skewed by the fact that his play is so...erratic I guess, but something definitely seems way off with him. If I decide to stop being lazy, I may even make a case on him day 2. Right now, he's my strongest scum read.

I voted dramonic early on, but my opinion of him has improved since. I'd put him somewhere between neutral and town.

If I were to go completely on gut, Cuttlefish would be my next call for scum. I have no idea why and I don't even remember any of his posts. I really need to start reading more closely.

Haylen and Netopalis are pretty big toss-ups for me right now. I've been scum in both games I've been in with Haylen, so I've never had to read her. I did meta her once though. I might try to apply that here and see what happens. I've been flip-flopping back and forth with Neto, which is also why I haven't really mentioned him much. Like Ythill, I think a reread is in order before I really make a judgment on him.

From what I've read so far, I have a gut feeling this game will be obvious upon reread. It almost seems like there's a puzzle and all the pieces are there to be put together if I read well enough. I have a feeling the scum are obvious this game.

I have until Thursday to reread and try to break this game open. If I don't pick up my game day 2, I probably won't live to see another night."

[DeathRowKitty]

I love your ridiculous tunneling. It's cute....almost.

Not having a read on 3 people doesn't mean anything. Do you have a read on everyone? Do you think you have a

correct

read on everyone? If I die and flip scum, feel free to hunt in the Ythayleto pool. I'm not scum though, so that doesn't really mean anything.

[DeathRowKitty]

2. Town-hunting >>>>> scum-hunting. It's just easier. I tend to scumhunt though.

[DeathRowKitty]

Reck, you're just arbitrarily taking everything I do and saying it's a scum tell. Or in words you might understand a little better:

LOLOLOLOLOL RECK IS SCUM LOLOLOLOLOLOL

[DeathRowKitty]

Reckoner, that's been explained already.

[DeathRowKitty]

But DRK's notes were

really

bad.

Well, I didn't expect to be posting them. Ignore them if they bug you that much. What exactly do you dislike about them though?

[DeathRowKitty]

By bad I mean...

DRK's "notes" post looks very contrived to me.

To rephrase, they do not look like notes written for one's own reference but, rather, a poor job of faking the same. Complete sentences? Self-referencing? Predicting your own lynch? Magically reaching conclusions that are populist at the time of posting? Seriously?

Can't really ignore that. Sorry.

Damn it, Ythill, I'm allowed to write in whatever the hell style I want. If I choose to write my notes

to

myself in f'n complete sentences, that's my own choice. It feels nice to talk to myself, tyvm.

As for reaching the same conclusions....well, honestly, I don't actually know who suspects who any more except at a very basic level. Not paying attention to the thread is tech. So, yeah, whatever.

[DeathRowKitty]

So basically you're voting me because you think my writing style sounds fake.

I just moved into college last week (new laptop and such), so I only have one other sample of myself writing in that style. It's personal and I'm not posting it.

I'm not sure what about my writing style seems so off to you. I write notes like that as if I'm someone else reading them. I make sure everything is nice and readable and explain things I already know, just in case I don't. It's kind of like how I talk to myself. I don't just make comments to myself or make occasional separate statements. I have entire one-sided conversations with myself to the extent that it sometimes turns into a lecture.

Fake sounding or not, that's how I write. Do you have a good reason to believe that's not how I write and that it was fake, especially considering you seemingly haven't found me scummy until now?

[DeathRowKitty]

So you mention that the player list is for your reference? In case you don't know that? I'm not going to let you strawman this down to a style argument. That post was obv-scum due to several factors, which I already mentioned.

WHAT THE HELL ABOUT IT DO YOU NOT THINK IS JUST MY WRITING STYLE?!?!?! YES, I WAS TELLING MYSELF THE PLAYER LIST WAS FOR MY REFERENCE. IS THAT ANY LESS LIKELY THAN ME TYPING IT OUT NOW AND ACCIDENTALLY INCLUDING THAT?!?!?! HONESTLY, HOW F'N STUPID DO YOU THINK I AM? OH LOLZ I THINK I'LL PRETEND I WROTE NOTES DOWN NIGHT 1 AND MAKE THEM SOUND LIKE I'M WRITING THEM FOR SOMEONE ELSE SO IT LOOKS STUPID. GOD DAMN IT YTHILL, IF YOU TRY TO PIN THAT TO ANYTHING BUT STYLE, I'M GOING TO LOSE A LOT OF FAITH IN EITHER YOUR SCUMHUNTING OR IN THE FACT THAT YOU'RE TOWN.

[DeathRowKitty]

YTHILL, EXPLAIN WHY THE HELL YOU THINK I WOULD WRITE MY POST LIKE THAT IF I WERE MAKING IT UP NOW. IT MUST EITHER INCLUDE MENTION THAT I'M AN IDIOT OR AN ADMISSION THAT YOU'RE SCUM.

[DeathRowKitty]

the simple fact that he claims to have written it N1 and yet manages to come to current, middle of D2 populist opinions is enough reason to call shenanigans.

I CHALLENGE YOU TO FIND ONE OPINION I EXPRESSED IN MY POST THAT CONTRADICTS MY END OF DAY 1 STANCES OR I'M CALLING FUCKING SHENANIGANS

[DeathRowKitty]

DO YOU NORMALLY ADDRESS ISSUES BY NOT ADDRESSING THEM?

[DeathRowKitty]

The thing about DRK is that his excuse for being emo and emotional ran out a week or so ago and the recent yelling is going quite counter to that.

Sheesh, can't a guy PMS in peace?

[DeathRowKitty]

I CHALLENGE YOU TO FIND ONE OPINION I EXPRESSED IN MY POST THAT CONTRADICTS MY END OF DAY 1 STANCES OR I'M CALLING FUCKING SHENANIGANS

YTHILL, STOP IGNORING THIS

@DTM
SFG isn't a he. She also probably isn't scum.

[DeathRowKitty]

I'm really sorry, but I have to replace out. I joined this game for the wrong reasons and it came crashing down on me. I can't handle this game anymore. Bye.

[DeathRowKitty]

Actually...can I not replace out/replace back in? >.< I think I can actually put more of an effort in now.

Unvote

Let's hunt some scum.

[DeathRowKitty]

Uhhh....quick poll question. If 3 of Cuttlefish, Haylen, DTM, and Ythill were scum, which 3 would it be?

[DeathRowKitty]

Cuddle

Vote: Cuttlefish

[DeathRowKitty]

I see we're discussing that mysterious meta ploy.

There used to be a player (I think it was Pooky) who would occasionally guarantee to the rest of the game that he was town. The idea behind this was that he NEVER did that when he was scum. If he made the guarantee in a game, other players could reasonably assume he was town. There was nothing wrong with it because there was no guarantee he was town beyond his word and his meta, neither of which is illegal in a game of mafia.

That's kind of like what's going on here. To be honest, I didn't really expect KittyMo to announce that I was town. I just figured I'd give her an easier job of reading me. Oh well. If I'd known it would blow up into something this big, I probably wouldn't have said anything.

[DeathRowKitty]

I've already claimed. I'm a neighbor. If you actually, have a guilty, you're insane.

[DeathRowKitty]

Okay, look, we have 8 players alive. We're not lynching without mass claiming first. I already claimed. If we're going by normal rules, I choose who claims next, but I don't really care who claims.

@Dram and Reck
Forget the guilty for a second and go back to day 1 and 2. Did you have any reason you thought I was scum that didn't involve my being lazy? If not, what makes being lazy not a null tell?

[DeathRowKitty]

I never pretended you didn't. What I'm looking for now is

why

.

I'm not going to be the final mislynch in this game without putting up a fight. Now isn't the time for being all cute about how long you've suspected me. Now is the time to be damned sure you're right. I'll give you a little hint. You're not.

[DeathRowKitty]

We had a jack of all trades, a vig, plus supposedly a jailkeeper and a cop. Tell me how it makes sense, if Reckoner's town, that he's sane.

Yes, I just pulled an AtSI (appeal to sanity issues). Feel free to discuss how it makes me scum while you don't actually address why you thought I was scummy in the first place.

[DeathRowKitty]

Dramonic, why is KittyMo scum?

[DeathRowKitty]

Dram: I don't even know if Reck is town. Assuming he's insane = assuming he's town

Nobody said he's GOOD at being scum, sweetie

In that case, you're fail town for not catching me until my failclaim in 809 (was it 809?)

[DeathRowKitty]

Reck, what are your opinions of Haylen? (yes, this line of thought is going somewhere)

[DeathRowKitty]

GUYS, NEWS FLASH

RECKONER'S LAST POST WAS THE FIRST TIME HE MENTIONED HAYLEN THIS ENTIRE GAME. YES, THAT'S RIGHT. HE'S ON HIS 7TH PAGE OF ISO POSTING AND HE NEVER SO MUCH AS MENTIONED HAYLEN.

/end caps

---

YOU ARE SUCH A PISS-POOR WHINY LITTLE RUNT YOU KNOW THAT

No. Just no. Call her that again and I'm going to consider you scum regardless of your alignment.

[DeathRowKitty]

@dram
I said I would consider him scum regardless of his alignment. Next time, read before you post. To be honest, he's reading as town to me right now, which would point to insane cop, which would point to you as scum.

[DeathRowKitty]

Oh, wait, I just realized...we no lynch and Reckoner inspects again. Have him inspect the player he most expects to be town. See what result he gets. Also, yeah, I'm male.

[DeathRowKitty]

Nothing, I suppose. What's to stop him from getting NKed if we lynch today? As far as I can see, either he gets another result or it makes it me vs. you instead of me vs. you vs. Reck. What's the down side?

[DeathRowKitty]

Then KittyMo just shouldn't jailkeep Reckoner. If she does, we have KittyMo vs. Reckoner in addition to DRK vs. dramonic vs. Reckoner.

As for the mislynch thing, we can just be careful with our votes, right?

[DeathRowKitty]

If he's town, it would ruin the experiment.

[DeathRowKitty]

@dram
Does that change the logistics at all?

[DeathRowKitty]

Do you object to no lynch?

[DeathRowKitty]

Why?

[DeathRowKitty]

Okay, so the only benefit of lynching today is that you think someone will vote too quickly without thinking. Name someone you would expect to do so and to vote incorrectly.

[DeathRowKitty]

Wait, I just found something interesting. Reck said his role name was Arkham Horror. I just looked it up on Wikipedia:

he turns of the investigators are preceded by the "Mythos Phase", where a gate and monsters may appear. For each new gate that opens, the Doom Counter increases by one; the "Doom of Arkham" occurs when there are more than 13 open gates, and all players lose. Monsters move throughout the town, attacking any investigators they happen upon;

seeing some monsters results in a sanity loss.

In true Lovecraft fashion, if an investigator in the town loses all Sanity or Strength, they are ignored by the monsters. The collapsed investigator is transported to the Sanitarium or Hospital, as appropriate, for treatment. Such vital losses in the other worlds result in the death of the investigator, and the player must start a new one.

Coincidence?

[DeathRowKitty]

Wow...fail. I meant to bold that.

EBWOP:

he turns of the investigators are preceded by the "Mythos Phase", where a gate and monsters may appear. For each new gate that opens, the Doom Counter increases by one; the "Doom of Arkham" occurs when there are more than 13 open gates, and all players lose. Monsters move throughout the town, attacking any investigators they happen upon;

seeing some monsters results in a sanity loss.

In true Lovecraft fashion, if an investigator in the town loses all Sanity or Strength, they are ignored by the monsters. The collapsed investigator is transported to the Sanitarium or Hospital, as appropriate, for treatment. Such vital losses in the other worlds result in the death of the investigator, and the player must start a new one.

[DeathRowKitty]

Arkham Horror is all about investigators before being about some monsters making one insane. You're really grasping at straws here.
Additionally your new "case" is that I am scum because reck is insane.

It doesn't matter. From what I read, sanity is an important part of the game. Just because it's not the main focus doesn't mean it wouldn't be part of the role.

So basically town has a vig, a JOAT, an insane cop, a pair of town neighbours and a JK (that also blocks investigation, very protown role). Did I forget anyone? Right, also an empowerer.

against that, scum has...

*cricket*

Lovely balance theory.
You are scum, Kitty is scum. End of the line.
Hope your buddy manages better.

You're saying town is OP, yet you think it would make sense for town to have a sane cop? Insane cop seems much more likely balance-wise. Plus, town neighbors aren't particularly powerful, considering site meta says that one neighbor is usually scum.

Okay, ninja'd by KittyMo.

Also, I don't know exactly what the "empowerer" does, but what if she had targetted scum? Plus, we don't actually know what powers scum have. For example, an investigation-immune, NK-immune GF puts a bit of a nix on the vig + cop (though an insane cop would mess with things badly enough anyway).

[DeathRowKitty]

3 scum is NORMAL for a 12 player game kitty.

Her point, presumably, is something to the effect that 2-10 mountainous is balanced in favor of scum and adding in a third member to the scum team requires additional town power.

Also, insane cop is almost as strong as a sane cop, you just need a single investigation flipped.

Players cops inspect and players scum would kill are generally disjoint sets of players. You would generally need a mislynch to test sanity at all and, even then, you'd have players distrusting the cop for leading a mislynch.

[DeathRowKitty]

By the way, just for reference, on #mafia, XylBot says sane cop has rolepower .70 and insane cop has rolepower .22. That's considering that no one trusts cop sanities there anyway.

[DeathRowKitty]

@Reckoner
Why do you refuse to consider that you might be insane?

[DeathRowKitty]

Reckoner, if you're not insane, you're scum.

Is there ANYTHING in your role PM that leads you to believe your sanity could be questionable?

[DeathRowKitty]

If you think there's no chance you're insane, then you're scum. Simple as that.

Here's the one thing confusing me about this though: if you're scum, there's no cop. If there's no cop, there likely wouldn't be a miller.

As for not being told you're insane, I THINK I've seen a game where the cop was insane but not told. The setup was pretty fail, but just figured I'd mention. (Yea, yea, I'll go find it.)

[DeathRowKitty]

Okay, forget the example I thought I had. It had a town twin and a scum twin, one of which was a death miller and one of which was a death antimiller, not an insane cop >.<

Reckoner, if you're actually a cop, you're inspecting SFG tonight.

[DeathRowKitty]

The point was to check his sanity. If we no lynch and Reckoner's town, he'd get an innocent on her and I would be cleared. I realized since that there's no way he would do that anyway. I blame lack of sleep.

[DeathRowKitty]

Insane cop gets results opposite those of a sane cop.

[DeathRowKitty]

Mod, if there was an insane cop in the game and that cop were to die, would we be told he was insane?

[DeathRowKitty]

That eliminates another excuse for not no lynching. If Reckoner is town, he can't be killed. The only reason not to no lynch now is to prevent people from voting too quickly. Honestly though, from what we've seen, the person most likely to vote quickly is Haylen and she's currently more likely to vote for me.

We're no lynching today. Reckoner will inspect and, if he's town, discover that he's insane. We sort the rest out tomorrow.

[DeathRowKitty]

Neither Reck not KittyMo needs to be scum if you are.

[DeathRowKitty]

There's *no* reference to anything related to sanity in your role PM?

[DeathRowKitty]

Okay then. It's me vs. you. Which means it's you. I still think we should no lynch.

The question I have now is whether or not the mod would put a miller in a game with no cop (well, except the JOAT's inspection). I'll probably look at cow's modded games later to check up on his mod meta.

The thing that makes it seem possible is the fact that cop is almost certainly Reckoner's fakeclaim. Yes, I'm reasonably sure scum were given fakeclaims. Earlier in the game, I said the following:

2. I have reason to believe that "pseudo-breaking the rules," as KittyMo called it, won't actually help us with anything.

That was in response to KittyMo not wanting to use win cons to scumhunt. The reason I said it probably wouldn't help is that scum almost definitely have fakeclaims. How do I know this? I was told I was allowed to quote my role PM to TL (and he could quote his to me). Neither of us actually did, especially considering he never responded to me pre-game and was lynched day 1. It's possible that was only legal because both of us were town and wouldn't have to make anything up, but, more likely, he allowed it because he gave scum fakeclaims that would avoid making that game-breaking.

[DeathRowKitty]

Reckoner, what would I be doing differently if I were town? You seemed town today, therefore I decided you might be insane town as opposed to lying scum. Now that you say that's impossible, I'm looking at the situation from the only viewpoint left.

The thing is, I still want to believe you're insane. It makes more sense than a miller existing just to satisfy a cop fakeclaim. Basically, if you're scum, I actually have to seriously consider SFG-scum, which I've pretty much been avoiding because I want her to be town.

[DeathRowKitty]

Also, inb4omgucalledurselfscum because of the first sentence.

[DeathRowKitty]

If you're scum, there's no cop, which kind of defeats the purpose of a miller in the game.

I don't know. Maybe I've been on #mafia too much recently and I'm used to insane cops. It just made sense at the time, especially when I saw that sanity was part of Arkham whatever the game name was.

[DeathRowKitty]

Learn to read.

[DeathRowKitty]

This is ridiculous.
Kitty keeps getting away with not commenting on DRK's scumminess at all because of LOL SECRET TELL.

Up until now, I've been ignoring this every time you brought it up. When I told KittyMo I was town, my intention was for her to know I was town, not for it to become a point of debate whether or not that was actually a legitimate tell on me. However, you've MADE it a point of debate and I'm not ignoring it any more, especially when you're trying to use it to drag KittyMo into this.

First, let's get a little more background on what's going on here. KittyMo and I are really good friends. At some point in time, we came to a mostly unspoken agreement that, if at any point in a game, either of us specifically told the other his or her alignment, that person would be confirmed. When I say "mostly unspoken agreement," I don't mean we made any sort of formal agreement or in fact agreed upon anything at all. I just happened to mention once that I never directly lie to her about my alignment and that she could probably discern my alignment in any game just by asking me and forcing me to respond.

Since that point, that's been kind of an unspoken rule between us. I never directly lie to her, even in game, and I don't recall her directly lying to me in a game.

In the likely several hundred games I've been in with KittyMo on #mafia, I've probably used this to confirm my alignment in somewhere between 5 and 10 games. It's not something I just haphazardly throw around every game for the heck of it and the one time she actually asked me my alignment, I didn't answer even though I was town. Every time I've told her I was town, I actually was town, without fail. If I tell her I'm town, it's as good as a promise and I don't break promises.

In order for me to confirm myself like this, two things have to be true:
1) One or both of us is getting way too stressed out by the game.
2) I think she's town. If I think there's a good chance she's scum, I don't confirm myself to her because it could very easily create a conflict of interest later on (if she needs to get me killed but has already broadcasted that I'm confirmed town). I'm not sure if she actually realized this, but, if not, now she knows.

The point I'm making with all of this is that it's not just "LOL SECRIT HANDSHAKE" or whatever you called it. It's a way of eliminating unnecessary stress from the game and making the game easier on both of us.



Now, given all this, if you're going to use KittyMo's trust in that tell against her, you have to answer the following: why should she not believe I'm town based on this?

Until you can answer that adequately, your case of LOLKITTYMODOESN'TTHINKDRKISSCUM is meaningless.

Plus, while you're answering this, I have something you might want to keep in mind...quotes from earlier (all addressed to dram):

[22:19:15] <reckoner> NOTICE I NEVER LIED TO YOU

[00:31:40] <reckoner> sorry sweetie
[00:31:44] <reckoner> i'd rather kill you than lie to you <3

[00:48:25] <+reckoner> DRAMONIC WTF
[00:48:28] <+reckoner> !vote dramonic
[00:48:28] <+dramonic> reck you bitch
[00:48:31] <+Nicanor> dram, claim.
[00:48:31] <+reckoner> you lied to me
^ scum acting hurt and surprised that dram lied to you

[00:49:45] <reckoner> dram I still didn't lie to you

[00:06:45] <+reckoner> dram, darling?
[00:06:50] <+dramonic> yes love?
[00:06:56] <+reckoner> I think I can trust you to not be scum.
[00:07:02] <+reckoner> Can you trust me to not be scum?
[00:07:06] <+dramonic> yes I can
[00:07:09] <+reckoner> okay then.
[00:07:14] <+reckoner> dramonic is now town.
[00:07:14] <+Uprising> !xmafia votes
[00:07:14] <@XylBot> 14,15|15,14|01,14|00,01 MAFIABOT 15,14|01,14|00,01 VOTE COUNT (3 to lynch) 15,14|01,14|0,15|
[00:07:14] <@XylBot> 14,15|15,14|01,14|00,01 MAFIABOT 15,14|01,14|00,01 No one is currently voting. 15,14|01,14|0,15|
[00:07:16] <+Uprising> okay
[00:07:23] <+reckoner> he can't be.
[00:07:26] <+dramonic> given those options
[00:07:34] <+dramonic> i'd choose anth over uprising
[00:07:35] <+Uprising> he can't be town?
[00:07:39] <+Uprising> what?
[00:07:43] <+reckoner> ...what?
[00:07:45] <+reciprocal> so you guys have a secret agreement or something?
[00:07:46] <+reckoner> Dramonic IS town.
[00:07:48] <+reckoner> No.
[00:07:49] <+Uprising> I misread, sorry
[00:07:51] <+Uprising> Okay
[00:07:52] <+reckoner> I can just read him based on questions.
[00:07:59] <+reckoner> And his responses.
[00:08:08] <+reckoner> And his undying love for me which will only let him fudge the truth to a certain extent <3

Clearly, you're big into the idea of not lying to people you're close with, even in mafia....or does that only apply to you now?

I COULD ask you to give an explanation of why I chose this particular game to go out of my way to make a post telling KittyMo I was town and lie about it for the first time, but that could ruin your tunneling. The last thing I want to do is force you to be rational for a moment

[DeathRowKitty]

@DRK: Are you also forgetting the game where I shot dramonic N0? Or the MULTIPLE games where we were on opposing factions? Yeah, we don't directly deceive each other... but like dramonic said, I think you're BOTH scum.

I fail to see how that first part is at all relevant.

As for the second part, if we're both scum, why did I bother telling her I was town if I wasn't even trying to use it to confirm myself? I haven't even attempted to bring it up until now.

[DeathRowKitty]

WIFOM isn't a magic word that makes all your problems disappear. If you're going to reject my argument for WIFOM, you have to give reasoning that the WIFOM actually yields an explanation as plausible as taking it at face value.

[DeathRowKitty]

If you wouldn't do it as scum, why not do it?

I can't even begin to guess what this means.

As for flailing, I'm trying to make sense of this game. Look at this from my standpoint for a second:
1) The supposed (and uncounterclaimed) cop has a guilty on me.
2) The existence of a miller makes it seem like there

should

be a cop. (note to self: check hassdgsdgawoga's other modded games)
3) Reckoner claims there's no way he can be insane based on his role PM.
4) The two of you have taken to blindly tunneling me...Reckoner because of his supposed cop result and you because you're too busy fanboying over Reck to look at anything else.

Assume for a second that you weren't completely deadset on assuming I'm scum. Could you see a town motivation for what you perceive to be flailing?

[DeathRowKitty]

yet weither reck is sane or insane it doesn't change that Kitty will have to be scum regardless, because otherwise the town is vastly overpowered.

...except that Reckoner being insane would make you scum and me town

Also, you keep misrepresenting my position on whether or not Reckoner is a cop. I pretty much haven't taken one. I still want to believe he's insane (given his inability to properly read a role PM, I find it difficult to rule this out), but I'm leaning scum for, well, obvious reasons.

You also never actually addressed why there would or wouldn't be town motivations to my "flailing." You described my behavior from your perspective and then concluded based on no reasoning there there are no town motivations.

---

Can you reiterate the case on me (or at the very least, link to posts containing the case? You can't use the fact that you think I'm scum as an excuse because you still need to convince enough people to vote me if you want me (mis)lynched.

[DeathRowKitty]

Yes, but it makes kitty scum regardless. What's your point?

No it doesn't.

I don't see where you get he cant read his PM properly and how it relates to his sanity as cop. That's a ridiculous attempt at correlation. Try to make a decision here. Either he's cop or he's scum. It's not hard for a town person to take a stance on something, EVEN in MyLo.

I was in a game with Reckoner in which he was mislynched at lylo for completely failing at reading his role PM. That was in a mini normal. I'm saying it's not impossible he wouldn't notice something indicating possible insanity. I actually thought I remembered another time he failed at reading his role PM, but I think I made that up.

I am saying since your behaviour is excessively scummy from my PoV, that obviously you don't have a town motivation since you are NOT town. Reword the question if that doesn't answer you.

My question said to assume you had doubt about my alignment. You didn't answer the question.

[DeathRowKitty]

Okay, well, I'm too lazy to go back and address each point (and it probably wouldn't even end up being remotely useful if I did address each point), so I'll just make a general comment about it: most of what you pointed out related directly to the fact that I really didn't get into this game until recently. Most of my posts this game have been pretty much useless because I really didn't care to be in the game. Do you agree that my play this game was consistent with that?

[DeathRowKitty]

Haylen, why wouldn't I be panicky? Presumably you're saying scum panic because it hurts the scum team more to have a scum member lynched. Well, this is mylo. It hurts the town a hell of a lot more to have me mislynched now than it would hurt the scum team to have one of them lynched. So, yeah, panicky.

[DeathRowKitty]

I'm pretty sure I'm at L-2. It's just Reck, dram, and Haylen voting, right?

[DeathRowKitty]

I would say someone should unvote, but, assuming Reckoner is scum, Haylen is too, so I'm not particularly worried right now.

[DeathRowKitty]

I beat my wife.

---

BFF, can you back that statement up? Do you think Haylen is a Godfather then?

I guess? It's mostly the whole 7-pages-of-iso-and-not-even-mentioning-Haylen's-once thing.

[DeathRowKitty]

I wonder how long I have to try to call the scum team before I'm hammered...

[DeathRowKitty]

I don't x.x

I don't even get what people found me scummy for initially. As far as I can tell, it was for being lazy. Now I feel bad that that might have been what cost the town this game.

[DeathRowKitty]

Well I'm dead anyway. I may as well say what I'm thinking

[DeathRowKitty]

Reckoner, I'm not pretending to be hammered. Unless all 3 scum are already voting me, I will be and no one is unvoting. As far as I'm concerned, I'm already dead.

[DeathRowKitty]

Or not everyone has had a chance to vote yet. Or all 3 scum are already voting for me. Or this is all some crazy dream and I've already been hammered. Or you're just looking for excuses to call me scum.

[DeathRowKitty]

KittyMo should go get some sleep tonight. There's no town left to save. gg whoever's scum

[DeathRowKitty]

Well, I'm town. I assume that means the game is over.

[DeathRowKitty]

Oh, and considering that, assuming Reckoner is scum, cop was almost definitely his mod-given fakeclaim, having a miller in the game made it really difficult for me to try to argue my way out of that. Then again, I'm not sure that would be bastard modding so much as it would be going against site meta.

[DeathRowKitty]

...unless you were scum and you're just screwing with me x.x

*shuts up and waits for mod scene*

[DeathRowKitty]

If you're saying that to imply that I'm scum, I'm going to go join games on #mafia just to shoot you night 0.

[DeathRowKitty]

Not sure I have any comments to make at the moment.

I would post a link to the neighbor QT, but I don't want to do so without TL's permission, just in case he would rather not let people see all the deep, heartfelt messages he posted there.

[DeathRowKitty]

This is a bit much. If you recall, it wasn't just dram who believed my claim. Singling him out like that because of "personal feelings" is stupid. He wasn't the only one who believed my claim, and despite whatever mine and dram's feelings are,

we don't just blindly believe each other.

Actually, that's pretty much exactly what he did. >_>

He wasn't the only one who believed your claim, but he was the only one who refused to so much as give a second thought to it. Sure, you can say he found me scummy beforehand and that's why he followed you, but there's no way he was so tunneled based on my scumminess that he wouldn't even acknowledge IN MYLO that other possibilities existed.

[DeathRowKitty]

I don't get an angry rant for failing?

[DeathRowKitty]

</3

[DeathRowKitty]

Oh, uhhh....Neighbor QT. I almost forgot to post that. >.>

Not that there's much to see. In fact, you've already seen the bulk of the content in there if you read the game.