/in-vitational 7 - Save Cow's Mind! (after 1014)

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posting to /confirm before I go sleep. Sleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep....I really need to get more of it...

yeah really pumped about this game, got the #mafia club going plus Ythill, UK, Faraday, Neto, and Reck, all of whom I know to some extent from either

stalking

watching

reading you or playing with you. Don't know anything about dramonic and TheLonging, but if you're in this group you pretty much have to be awesome so I'm going to assume you are unless you prove me otherwise

/crashes into bed like a drunken mule

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oh yeah and big hugs to all the #mafia people did you know that a little hug becomes HUGE if you add an e?

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On terms of RVS vs. RQS, I have only one experience with random questions and actually the answer to one of those questions did help me find one scum that game. However, I've never seen random questions actually get the game out of "random" and into actual suspicions. So personally, I'd rather we did a bit of both and here's some questions to get started.

1. Please provide me with a sample of your town and scum metas.
2. Do you prefer town-hunting or scum-hunting?
4. Which of the following are scumtells: lurking, lying, being annoying, off-topic discussion, voting without immediately giving reasons?
8. Do you think you should out your town reads?
16. Are there any days or times of day we should not expect you to be posting on a regular basis?

My answers:
1. town scum yes, I know the second game is off-site and over a year ago, if you want me to link the one game I've been scum on-site, just realize I replaced out after ~7 posts.
2. Scum-hunting. This does not stop me from having a couple town reads, though.
4. Lurking is a good scumtell imo, as is off-topic discussion. Lying and being annoying depend on context, and voting without giving reasons CAN be a towntell.
8. I don't have enough experience yet to have a distinct take on this, but I prefer to out all of my reads fairly honestly at the moment.
16. Mornings on weekdays and Sunday. When I start school again, I'll give you guys a synopsis of my class schedule.

Also SQUEEE I'm sorry I forgot your MS name BFF I <3 you forever! This probably isn't a game we can/want to happily ever after though...

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Not home yet. Posting from phone. Someone mentioned my asking questions when I do not believe it will advance game oh of random stage. This is true. It will not provide immediate benefit. But if u read that post of mine carefully, you will see I have caught scum later using r. V. S. Questions to help. So I ask game relevant questions now to help me catch scum late d1 and onwards. It does not alwasy matter but it can. I will also be participating in random voting however until it ends.

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Ammagawd Ythill is a daykiller!!!

P. S. Haylen, jack of all trades implies that you can cop/doc so no need to include that in your claim.

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wow...thanks for a good hour and a half of mental torture Longing your meta example was exquisitely painful. I'm going to go ahead and do something relaxing while the allergic reaction to the VIs in that thread dies down.

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also um...Longing I hate to ask this but what is your SN on #mafia?

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Posts made while I am tired or on my iphone don't count because in neither circumstance am I actually looking at the posts I'm talking about while I talk about them.

Real posts involve quotes, ISO's, actual names instead of "somebody said...", and/or valid comprehensive logic.

I'm also paranoid about lurky stuff and tend to accuse myself of lurking or active lurking when I don't think I'm posting enough content i.e. right now

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SFG: Do you think you are nervous? Why?

I think you're misreading "grumpy" as "nervous." For every post I've made today I've been 1. zombified with tiredness 2. rushing out the door 3. bored/annoyed with RL 4. any number of the above.

It's ONE FUCKING DAY. Am I not allowed to be openly pissy on the like first day of RVS at all? Not to mention, you'd be pretty pissy if you read 36 pages of combined atrocious voting, atrocious claiming/softclaiming, atrocious logic, and finally a vaguely decent lynch only to find out that the player you were reading got jan'd and so you never get to find out what role they had? I STILL don't know what role TheLonging had in that game and I even went back and combed the endgame for hints. Even the thought makes my mind burn and write in agony.

If you want me nervous go over to Open 209 where I have a completely uncalled for nervous breakdown because I think I'm lurking too much. VT that game if you can't be arsed to check flips.

vote: xReck

you're the one who missed the super obvious scumtell on the last day of Open 209 to lynch town. Plus, my appendix doesn't liek you.

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Also I think it would be a good idea if we all massclaimed our role names BUT NOT ANY POWERS WE MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE right now on Day 1. It gives scum less time to think about fakeclaims and sinks them in to whatever flavor they pull out of their ass please come to an agreement on this.

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Um....TheLonging, I don't know if this is relevant or not but your stating of your wincon is phrased differently than the one in my role pm.

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Kitty, darling, calm down. It's just a game. Just because we're scumhunting each other ravenously over here doesn't mean we can't meet up in a chatroom and bake each other cookies, so there's no reason to be upset. I'll even make your favorite kind and have them spell out KittyMo somehow.

Is it because /in 6 got asploded, is that why you're upset? Yeah I know. It sucks. It shouldn't have happened. But that doesn't mean you should come over here and take it out on the eleven of us okay...?

Also Reck, stop picking on Kitty for a page or two k? Chill out, we have like 2.5 more weeks before we need to have found scum and lynched them, and the more we talk, the more we'll have to go by on Day 2.

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I guess that was something I shouldn't have mentioned sorry

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I wasn't making a case, I was asking if it was relevant or not. I'm kind of annoyed that it got all blown out of proportion by everyone. You read a lot more aggression into my posts than is actually present.

Let me assure you: if I'm being aggressive, you will DEFINITELY be able to tell.

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And now Neto thinks I'm being defensive and Ythill doesn't like me "backpedaling" away from the wincon "argument"?

First of all, if you BOTHER actually reading my posts instead of reading what you want to read in my posts, I was NEVER SURE IN THE FIRST PLACE that it meant anything. The only game I have ever seen to have a wincon thing like this got closed 3 hours after the beginning of Day 1 because every single VT had been "confirmed" by quoting their role pm. Second of all, the line of conversation drew a SPECIFIC REBUKE FROM THE MOD. I don't enjoy being modkilled or mod-replaced, so I apologized and stopped talking about it. I don't see how you could possibly think it would be better for me to lie about my motivations in the first post and then continue the argument until the mod did something to me.

Oops time to go to work. Will have more when I get back, if I'm still awake.

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Perhaps it's the fact that I'm not quite sure how to go about playing my role in this game. Even without the flavor, this is a role I have never gotten on forums, on Xylbot, anywhere. I do tend to mention anything I notice immediately upon noticing unless I think it will out a pr anyways. I can't go find examples ATM cus I'm on my iPhone. Finally, my D1 play is and has always been weak; the only time I tried deep scumhunting on D1 thus far, I ended up tunelling town for it right up until the day I was mislynched for it.

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Ythill, I can assure you I have much experience on both the forums and Xylbot with Vanilla Townies. I've played like over 100 games on Xylbot and never, not once, gotten this role. I have had bastardly variants of it but not this role. Ask any of Haylen, KittyMo, DeathRowKitty, Cuttlefish, and maybe TheLonging about what roles you would expect to get doing 100 randoms on Xylbot.

Also I'm going to disappear for a few days while my mom yells at me for spending too much time "gaming" xP

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unvote

no lynching until we've talked more

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Okay for some reason we have a 12-player game in which only four players seem to actually exist. If I don't see activity pick up from people who aren't named Ythill, xReckonerx, or Faraday, I will go find the person with the lowest post count and vote them.

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Reck...chill out dude. Civility will get you a lot farther than all this capslock will, plus it won't be as annoying to reread on Day 2 or 3. Also a note to players: this game is NOT in RVS anymore. Everyone should have at least some insight by now as to the towniness or scumminess of other people. (I'm not voting because I'm trying to extract more of a certain behavior out of the person I suspect before warning them that I'm watching it.)

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ITT, everyone defends inactivity and active lurking. WTF?

Okay for some reason we have a 12-player game in which only four players seem to actually exist. If I don't see activity pick up from people who aren't named Ythill, xReckonerx, or Faraday, I will go find the person with the lowest post count and vote them.

Do I not count?

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Feh, Haylz picked up on the same behavior I was waiting for more on. Oh well.

vote: Nikanor

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My town read on Cuttle has improved.

Both me and Haylz think Cuttle's behavior is scummy and this improves your town read on him? How so?

Also for the sake of votecounts

vote:Cuttlefish

this is what I meant when I voted for Nikanor.

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Just go ahead and mislynch me you're probably going to anyways...

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nah I'm just a bad player so you might as well mislynch me on a Day that's probably going to be a mislynch anyways. dunno why I decided to /in, I KNOW i suck at this game and can't even live up to my own standards for how I should play...probably going to fuck up the role I've been given and in doing so screw over the entire town :/

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愛為れたい側にいて欲しいだけど為れない辞さない発展性を冒して

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愛為れたい側にいて欲しいだけど為れない辞さない発展性を冒して

I missed 私, it should be between だけど and 為れない, sorry

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also

mod: I voted for Cuttlefish last page, but you have me listed as not voting

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I made ONE non-English post and you're coming in and getting mad at me for it. Fuck off.

Also, if I'm still alive after Night ends, I want the first post of tomorrow barring the circumstance in which I die.

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Unvote: whoever I was voting which is probably nobody
Vote: SFG

I don't dig the AtE, or the blatant buddying, or the super irritability, or the "let's quote our role-names".

1. If you know ANYTHING about me, you know that AtE is just a sign that I'm actually posting and has more to do with RL and such than anything going on ingame. My worst AtE happens either when my seratonin levels reach the bottom of their cycle and around midterms/finals. Neither of which has anything to do with alignment, pressure, etc.

2. What buddying? No seriously, I can't see what you're trying to call buddying here. Is it because both Haylz and I noticed that Nik was acting scummy? That's the only thing I can think of, and if you think that two people mentioning the same scumtell while scumhunting is scummy, I fear for your common sense.

3. I picked up the name claim from Pie_is_good when it blindsided the scumteam and may have been almost completely responsible for the fact that the game ended up being a draw rather than a scum win (basically it made the PGO obvtown and obvPGO, therefore unlynchable and unkillable). I dunno about you but I'm all for blindsiding the scum team, and I also have reasons to want people to know that I have an unusual and new role, which is why I followed up with a softclaim when the name claim did not go through. Finally, as TheLonging mentioned in his sample meta game, the best way for a nonvanilla town role to gain the trust of the town is to mention the nature of their role as early as possible. Taking all this into account, do you still think the mass flavor claim is scummy?

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SFG, I know you can do better than this. Please try harder.

Duuuude, its only early Day 1, the only things I've ever done on Day 1 are tunnel Seacore the VT and unsuccessfully try to mislynch Sniper the VI. Hit rate 0/2, not good for scumhunting yet. As I promised before, I'll pick it up on Day 2 if I'm still alive (and so delicious and moist!). You of all people should know this, the only person who would know it better than you is Troll and he's in Game 10 soooooo... yah

Also input from UK would be nice <3

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Without wanting to sound like a jerk, we can really do without the whole "oh, you'll mislynch me anyways as usual, woe is me" scene.

If you're playing a game and I'm in it that is more or less inevitable at least once per game. If you don't like it, I would suggest putting me on your dislike list next time.

Your buddying isn't with Haylen, it's with Kitty. You've been calling Reck out for calling Kitty out. Stop doing it.

Ah-h-h. You're picking up on the fact that 1. I dislike town-on-town violence and 2. Me, Haylz, Kitty, DRK, and Cuttle are a nice little circle of mutual friends and we all love each other.

Yes, it still is for the simple reason that it draws a kill map for the scum. I believe it is a terrible idea. The existence of the PGO who ended up not killing any scum in your example is an argument against you IMO. A PGO claiming PGO is bad if you ask me. The same can apply here: "hey guys, by my rolename I'm obviously the doc, but scum wont kill me of course"

1. PGO did indeed kill scum, right during endgame. I don't see why this is bad for town. 2. I don't know about you, but my rolename is not particularly obvious about my role until I mention the flavor that goes with my ability. I'm assuming that the mod is not so bad at modding that they made the game breakable by flavor MC on D1. I'm not expecting someone to have a name like "Charitable Impulse" that is obvdoc or someone with a name like "First Person Shooter" who is obv. a scum/vig.

Does that make sense?

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Nameclaim: Soccer

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vote:Reck

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I honestly don't know why were flavor hunting either; the idea is that the fruit of nameclaim comes later when we ask someone at l-1 to claim what it actually means. We should not fall into role speculation traps, but continue to scumhunt and ignore the names for now.

Posted from my iPhone.

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I will not support any lynch within the first 20 pages or before KittyMo is able to return and contribute. However, I do find Longing scummy at the moment, and I'll do a more thorough reading of everyone tonight to get more solid reads.

I also must say, I haven't seen Rena on #mafia lately either, so her lurking makes null to me. Most likely she's having a bad week or something. I would aak you guys to give me more time to read her, as I'm pretty good at reading her. So please don't lynch her today.

Posted from my iPhone.

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Going in ISO alphabetical order giving reads on people. First up today is CUTTLEFISH! All post numbers are ISO

Cuttlefish

post 2 gives me some minor townvibes
posts 4 and 5 give me the feeling that Nik is following a vendetta rather than actually scumhunting
I'm not quite sure how to feel about post 6
General notes: He's lurking a lot, and ime that means scum with him. Especially since I've seen him in #mafia meantime complaining that he's bored :/

DRK

posts 2-4 - I get the distinct feeling that he wanted the game to stay in RS for longer...
post 6 and 7 stand out. He knows why.
post 21 is :goodposting:
General notes: posts between 7 and 21 give me an unspecific feeling that BFF is town. He's just working too hard to be scum atm.

dramonic

posts 0-4: content, content, my kingdom for some content!
post 5 makes me feel misrepresented, jury's out as to whether its on purpose or not
posts 6 and 7 make me feel better about it, though
post 8 again makes me wary, its like a cross between OMGUS and mudslinging
General notes: I really appreciate all the deep contributions dramonic has given this town and the exceptional amount of thought put into his posting. Oh wait.

Faraday

I like your name
posts 0-3: nice, raring to go as soon as the game starts. +town
post 8 sits well with me
post 13: for the moment, I am going to trust your read on dramonic. Goodness knows, you're probably better at it than I am and you're also one of my stronger townreads.
General notes: strong town read for this position in the game, again this person is working nonstop and in a very understandable way to deduce scum and town

hsadgfas

Nice votecounts. Very frequent, very regular.

Haylen

post 5: you forgot to mention what your riddles are, makes it hard to answer them
General notes: would like more time for her to pan out. ATM, I have a shaky town read on her though.

whoops its f00dtime, I'll do the others after f00d

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SFG comes off oddly here. I should know quite well that being angry doesn't equal scum. The problem is her excuses, and appears to be voting based on things not in this game, when there is evidence at this point. What's up with that?

If you'll look closely, I mentioned my appendix in there too. That is SFG-slang for "gut read." Get it, it comes from my gut

Why do you want a nameclaim, SFG? What about the chance that roles are related to role name, and scum might have fakeclaims?

Part of why I want a nameclaim is because of my own role. Part of why I want a nameclaim is because even if scum DO have fakeclaims, they won't have conveniently divided them or figured out how to imply PR's yet and we've taken away that strategic avenue. Certainly after our first scum lynch we'll know anyways, if they had fakeclaims.
As for the chances that roles are related to role name, I pretty much ruled that one out by looking at my own personal role PM, and I said that in a later post that I'm too lazy to look up now.

And longing claims scum

I do believe I brought that up as well and got shot down by a large number of people including our lovely mod.

@Neto: Why is Faraday scummy again?

QFT

@SFG: Why the AtE in a non threatening situation?

To give an honest answer, because I got into a fight with one of my friends and was upset from it.

SFG's explanation for nameclaims sound townie, if misguided. People design against massclaim now.

Can you explain to me why it was misguided so that I may refine my mafia theory? Again, part of the reason I'm doing it is because I have a role that I've never gotten before, and am not quite sure what to do with it.

QQ I want my foooooooood....why is it not ready yeeettttt....

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I was going to post analyzing the rest of the people tonight. Then I went on a long hike and wore myself out.

Yeahhhhhhhhhh no.

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Ythill, I will change my vote when I finish my ISO reading. I thought I made that clear but I guess not...

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Oh BTW I am, on no uncertain terms, claiming the first post of Day 2 barring the circumstance in which I die overnight. Anyone who posts before me on Day 2 if I'm still alive is scum.

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@SFG:

There's a problem with your theory. If I live through the night I will be posting as soon as I see the thread open, unless you explain why you need the first post reserved and I agree with you. Also, I'm not scum.

Well then, there's a problem with YOUR theory. I can't explain why I need the first post reserved for myself without giving crucial information that I would PREFER to stick in the first post of Tomorrow after I've had a night. This will, I believe, bring the largest benefit to the town with the least risk.

TBH what could you possibly lose by waiting a time period that will not possibly be more than 24 hours to get some information from me? If I'm scum, you could use it to try and trace my partners or discount it as WIFOM or maybe even out me in the first place, and if I'm town, it gives important information that I personally think is time-critical enough to be said exactly at the beginning of Tomorrow. It's not like Days are lasting the full two weeks anyways...

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Picking up my general reads from

KittyMo

onwards. Sorry that I've been slammed with work recently.

KittyMo

post 5 makes me feel good, posts before it are in keeping with her personality.
re: confirmation post scumtell - it sounds to me like KittyMo found a new cool thing to do as town and wanted to try it out. She backed down at a reasonable time after taking IMO too much heat for it.
I'm getting pretty consistent townvibes from her.
Post 24 seems really genuine to me
Really, KittyMo is doing everything I would expect out of town and not really anything I would expect out of scum. She's taking initiative in scumhunting and I like what I see.

Neto

posts 8-16: throws suspicion at 5 people really quickly (KittyMo, Ythill, DRK, Faraday, and me) and I never figured out what he FoS'd Ythill for. The fact that 3 of these people are potent townreads to me makes me a little...ish. On the other hand, he seems to be an aggressive scumhunter, and I'm worried that I might make an ABR mistake here.
post 23 makes me feel a little better
so does post 29
overall slight town read

TheLonging

i have no idea whats up with post 4. I've read it in context and I still can't figure out what TL is trying to say other than "Faraday is scum guize"
post 17, your major suspect suggests you vote someone else after you just in post 12 said that your point was still valid on him, and you just go and vote them? lolwut
Why were you not ok with lynching Reck today?
post 29 makes me feel better about him
post 30: why did you change your vote here if you're so sure that DRK is scum now?
post 40 comes across as town imo
post 41: what is this about?
post 46: didn't anyone ever tell you not to self-vote? I don't even know how to feel about this except that if you are town, you are the best possible mislynch
I will consider your reads if you flip town. I would LIKE for you to give townreads as well as fullclaim at L-1. Also holy cow you have a ton of posts.

UK

post 9 is townish
post 14 is supertownofwin
post 16 is town
post 24 is town
generally I would say UK is town

Reck

*takes a deep breath*
post 8 rubs me the wrong way
post 12 is townish
a little distractable, but thats his meta
post 26 is good
post 52 is iiiish :/
leaning vaguely town on Reck

Ythill

I don't even have to read to say that he's either town or really really dangerous. But I'm going to read anyways
gets into scumhunting really early, taking initiative
post 13, I can't tell if this is serious or sarcastic. If it's serious, I don't get it
yeah no there's not really that much point in reading further when Ythill's posts scream "town" at the top of their lungs.

Summary!

town: me, Ythill, UK, Faraday, and KittyMo
neutral/town: DRK, Reck, Neto
neutral/no read: Haylen
neutral/scum: Cuttlefish, dramonic
scum: TL

I'd be up for a lynch of any of the bottom 3

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Also actually I realized something, and its probably no longer best for me to have the first post of Tomorrow. sorry...

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Wait, is TL at L-1 atm or not? I didn't vote him because I wasn't sure, but then he did half of what I told him to do at L-1 and not the other half even tho the first half "stung him"?

I'm so confused.

never mind, I got ninja'd

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Oh also, forwarning: on Monday I will be getting my wisdom teeth removed. So you may get some pretttty soupy posts from me if the thread is open to me.

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I would vote TL, but I'm not completely sure he isn't at L-1. Consider me ready to hammer TL. I will not support a lynch of either Neto or DRK because I think they are more likely town than scum.

[SFG]

EBWOP: I fail at reading.

vote: TheLonging

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That's an if, we might both be town, or one of us is scum. It'd help to talk to DRK one on one to get an idea of whether I think he's scum or not.

Why would you being vigged rather than lynched help anything? If you're scum and DRK is town, it tells DRK nothing but what you plant. If you're town and DRK is scum, he can make up whatever you said and it doesn't help. And if you're town and DRK is town, we still have no way to verify anything actually said between the two of you because you're dead. All it would do is waste a vig shot so that a dead person could get his QT fix.

I'm far more inclined to believe that you want to do some fast talking with your scum allies more than you want to talk to your neighbor.

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Yeah KittyMo brought up another good point, TL may very well be trying to out a vig if we have one or verify that we do not to help his scum team before he dies. I'm not very comfortable at ALL with his begging for a postponed lynch.

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So can someone explain to me why on EARTH the TL wagon derailed, if we were sitting there ready to hammer him and he himself agrees that he would be the best potential mislynch even if he WERE town?

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And I've carefully pointed out that regardless of any alignment each of you two is, there is NO FUCKING POINT in night talking because after Night, you will HOPEFULLY be dead and we can't trust BFF's word alone because who knows if he's scum or not? Instead, what letting you get away with wriggling out of the lynch today accomplishes, you manage to pull off a free mislynch and I'm guessing Neto is your target since he's the similar sized wagon, WHILE making plans with your scum buddies AND confirming the presence or absence of a Vigilante in the game. Sounds like a plan that is 100% scum and 0% town.

If you can name me ANY POSSIBLE BENEFITS to outweigh these cons, go riiight ahead.

[SFG]

What the fuck is TL doing?

This play is too fucking bizarre to be scum.
We need to lynch DRK now.

Please explain why bizarre = town?

[SFG]

Mmm yes your hunches were SOOO right in Open 209.

[SFG]

It's the only game I've played with you, did you expect me to pull out a game I hadn't read?

[SFG]

Please don't lynch Neto, I *really* don't think he's scum, and I haven't seen anything so convincing in his case that it even competes with TL's "oh pleeeaaaaase don't lynch me yet just tell me if you have a Vigilante somewhere"

I mean seriously is NO ONE LISTENING to what TL is saying anymore? You guys are getting on Neto's case while he isn't even here, which smacks of scum wagoning, and completely ignoring the scummy-out-the-ASS TL. Do you guys not think that trying to out a Vig is a scum tactic? Or, for that matter, trying to buy a mislynch instead of his own to do something that's either completely pointless AT BEST and benefits the scum team AT WORST?

Seriously, I don't even know what to think of you guys anymore.

[SFG]

Oh also, updated top 3 suspects, in order:

TheLonging, Cuttlefish, Ythill

[SFG]

But what TL is doing makes PERFECT SENSE from a scum perspective. Intentionally act super erratically, draw out town power, force an extra mislynch, don't you see how the actual motivations are hidden beneath his great IMMA MISLYNCH RAHR thing? He's confusing you guys for a REASON - he wants to help the scum win. It seems so completely obvious to me that I can't imagine how you guys can NOT see it.

[SFG]

@SFG:

Why have you added me to your suspicion list. Why have you removed dram?

I have not removed dram, you've just temporarily passed him. Notice I said I listed my top three (3) suspects...TL is #1...Cuttle is #2...you are #3....dram is #4 if you reallly care about #4.

You've moved up because of some of your recent wagon hopping and the fact that I've realized that hey, you're probably such a good player that you look really nice and townie when you aren't too. Does that make sense?

Also I'm fucking high on painkillers and that probably isn't helping me think either.

[SFG]

@SFG:

Way to be specific.

lol did you expect a coherent post at 1AM within 36 hours of being under anaesthesia and shit?

I do have another motive for moving you specifically up on the list, but I don't want to mention it yet, so I can see if it actually does play out or not. If not, it was unfortunate for you, if so then you probably ARE scum.

[SFG]

I fucking love secret reasons. Ythill looks obv town so far though.

Let it go for now. I'll explain it later when it becomes decisively relevant/irrelevant. It's a subtle scumtell that I wouldn't expect someone else to pick up right now.

[SFG]

Why the hell am *I* scum now, dram? Is it because I put you on my scum list and you're afraid of my oh so scary hax scumhunting skills or what? o0

[SFG]

I must be getting an F- in communication right now or something, I really do NOT see how listing dram as my fourth highest scum suspect is not suspecting him and why he thinks its I don't even know what he thinks it is.

Mmmm....soft mushy food is soooo nice right now. And ice, ice is good too.

[SFG]

Isn't 3 the number of suspects you were listing from everyone ELSE in the fucking game?

[SFG]

OK I'm going to stop posting until I have a brain again because this is just not going well for anyone. If I can't even recognize a lylo in IRC mafia for like 5 games in a row because I'm stupid, I don't think playing forum mafia is going to go any better for me.

I'll go back to posting in 36 hours or so when maybe I won't be so what the hell am I?

[SFG]

Reck, what the hell is wrong with you? We are not lynching town today. I know you want to, I know you're all nice and scummed up and ready for a nice town lynch, but the fact of the matter is, we are going to lynch SCUM today, not town. So stop with this BS about hammering Neto/DRK and put your vote where it belongs - on scum.

I'm pissed off and shit. Stop it. Stop being a fucking idiot and vote the right fucking person. K?

[SFG]

All right, I think it's been 36 hours now and at any rate, I'm off of the painkillers now, for better or for worse.

Ythill, I get the feeling that you're actively twisting my words around to make me sound stupid when if you bothered reading my posts, I'm just restating things I said before with more force.

Case and point:

Summary!

town: me, Ythill, UK, Faraday, and KittyMo
neutral/town: DRK, Reck, Neto
neutral/no read: Haylen
neutral/scum: Cuttlefish, dramonic
scum: TL

Wait a minute... you're calling Neto and DRK town? WTF? Plus you suddenly suspect Reck? Do you mean it this time, or is this another drug induced non-read?

Notice that Neto and DRK were ALWAYS on my town list and as for Reck, I'm just getting annoyed at him for writing off TL so easily in favor of people I think are townish. That last part may not have come off so well under the influence though.

Is it because I put you (dramonic) on my scum list

Didn't I just question you for bumping him

off

your scumlist?

Again, I think I already brought this up, but if you look at post 42 where I consolidated my reads, it seems FAIRLY obvious, to me at least, that I thought dramonic was scummy. That's why his name is very carefully listed under the group "neutral/

scum

." I brought up the only name that changed, which happened to incidentally be yours, around the same time as it changed. So basically you're yelling at me for keeping an updated tally of my suspicions in thread.

On to the top 3/top 4 thing

We need to start working on consensus. Everyone please clearly list your top 3-4 lynch choices if you have not. Mine are

TL, Neto, Haylen, and KM.

If I have time tonight, I'll start making a compromise list based on everyone's suspects.

So I asked for 3-4, then I listed 4. Bolded and colored so that nobody would miss it. Yet you're now claiming that I specifically asked for 3?

So I posted within the range you asked for and all of a sudden that makes me scummy? I skimmed your post, got the gist of it, posted a reply that happened to hit the small end rather than the large end of your range. I don't see how my interpretation is at all unreasonable.

That said, I've been stating and restating the case on TL, but it occurs to me that I'm still not quite sure what the case is on Neto at all, let alone the case on DRK. I'm pretty inclined at the moment to think that DRK's behavior is following naturally out of current issues in his life rather than being scummy, which I can vouch for as being his friend and such. Can someone please make a nice one-post summary of the case on Neto, with posts in ISO? If anyone wants me to do the same for TL, just ask and I'll do so however many times it takes.

Finally, WTF is up with Faraday, is he always this...this....adjectives fail me. This...lolgame? Blahgad. Can you please make more serious posts? At least when I make posts about why TL is scum, I include things like evidence and possibilities and worst and best case scenarios and shit. When you post you're telling him to get himself modkilled, which sets my scumdar up all kinds of weird tingles.

[SFG]

We should totally rename this thread to "emotionally dead mafia" and that would cover about half the players right now.

[SFG]

You know, Ythill, I think that in at least 3/5 of the cases of emotionally dead going on are related to things beyond the control or scope of the game itself and are bleeding in from RL. I can't really speak for Haylz or Nik because they haven't talked to me particularly recently either.

Can the town at least put the day out of its misery with a lynch on TL? UK, Nik, Neto, BFF? It doesn't take much effort to move your vote and it'd help the town a lot more than us sitting here looking at each other like zombies.

[SFG]

Faraday, calm down. He's at L-2 at my calculations, no one can hammer yet.

[SFG]

I am hereby removing my scum accusations towards Ythill, but I judge that it is still best for me not to fullclaim like I had intended to do this morning.

[SFG]

I'm going to go ahead and fullclaim now actually since what I was worried about happening decided to happen anyways. I am a MILLER and yesterday I thought I was getting Cop vibes off of Netopolis. Apparently, I was wrong. That is why I was moving so suddenly to push a TL lynch; it was the obvious counterwagon and I assumed that if I were a miller, the mafia had a godfather and thus would also know to look for the cop, had reached the same conclusion I had, and were trying to push an innocuous lynch on them.

The original softclaim was set up to try and draw the mafiakill so that I wouldn't have to worry about all the crap that comes with being a miller, without threatening whoever was the cop enough to countersoftclaim. The "mislynch me now" breakdown was part of the same trail of thought - I kept being haunted by visions of the cop coming forth and both outing himself and getting a free mislynch off on me, which would be awful for town. In retrospect, I probably thought this out too much.

[SFG]

Tomorrow I will be flying to college for the entire day. It's quite likely that the day after will be spent entirely moving into my dorm room. Expect me to have low activity on these two days.

[SFG]

Dram, can you give me a consolidated case on KittyMo and whoever else you were accusing?

Posted from my iPhone.

[SFG]

Hi my Internet borked pretty bad and I am not masochistic enough to try and parce dram's post from my phone. I'll get to tech. services when possible but it'll be another day before I can really post.

[SFG]

*yaaaaawn* early morning post for me. Just FYI, Ythill, KittyMo's statement there makes complete sense to me as well but I'm not sure I can explain why. It isn't a scumtell. I can assure you of that much at least.

As for my "opinion reversal" on you I do believe I explained that right here. If you don't get it, let me clarify: I was working under the assumption that Neto was a cop and that scum KNEW Neto was a cop and was trying to wagon him to death on D1. Ythill was the obvious candidate under wagon analysis for being scum pushing a ML on Neto. HOWEVER, if scum knew Neto was cop, they would have killed him last night. Therefore, I was wrong, and my suspicions against Ythill are void.

I will be posting more when I've had the chance to read some dramonic meta games and ISO'd him thoroughly in this one. This will happen, at earliest, tonight.

[SFG]

So...Phayt arrived at my place midday yesterday and will be staying here for a few days. His presence is exceptionally adept at distracting me from schoolwork, mafia, the internet in general, and such. Yeah. Phayt <3

[SFG]

wait why the fuck is soccer a miller SFG?

Soccer is a miller because this is America, no one cares about soccer over here. 's all the explanation I was given and I'm not about to post the exact flavor of my passive.

[SFG]

Sooo....Phayt left this morning. "Left" might be a mild way of putting it, anyways. I'll probably come back to this game once I'm done fuming about that.

Spoiler: For those who have been following #mafia

Bitchcop and cop came back and bitched at us and I'm calculating my revenge on her...

[SFG]

DTM, did anyone ever tell you to actually finish reading before you vote someone in case y'know, you end up voting someone who is clear or whatever? Or accidentally lynching someone or anything like that? It's just kind of good play in general.

Also I really really honestly do not see what your problem is with me making a few posts of what you call fluff and I call keeping the game from exploding in a miasma of emotionality. 1. I was posting pretty good content at that time, so what if not 100% of my posts were content. I made textwalls and cases, got the game moving, had an extensive strategy I was working on, and you zone in on the few fluff posts interspirsed? I'm not impressed. 2. How, exactly, is a huge emotional explosion/meltdown on the part of at least two if not more players of the game, PRODUCTIVE to scumhunting? It might help you tell the alignment of those two if you're really fucking good at reading them, but you're much more likely to either give it a free pass or tunnel on AtE, neither of which is helpful. But if you want to try and tell me its counterproductive, who am I to argue with your oversized brain?

I realize that Today, I've pretty much lost track of the whole game, partly because of moving to college, partly because of Phayt visiting me for a week, and partly because I'm feeling like I really got the bum end of the stick role-wise. I mean come on, we have like 4 people claiming superpowered awesome roles and my analysis of my situation as soon as I got the role was that optimal play would be to somehow, anyhow, get myself killed Night 1. I'm going to try to get back into things and make superanalyses of Cuttlefish, DTM, DRK, dram, and reck sometime soonish. These people because they are the ones that either I've read as scummy or that everyone else seems to think are scummy. At deadline, I'd gladly block my vote with Ythill and I would like for wife, Faraday, and KittyMo to do the same.

[SFG]

if we need one more vote to control the game, it really is NOT that hard to convince one other person to hammer at deadline. Just sayin.

[SFG]

ok sure DTM, next time I make a really quick post on my way out the door, I'll be sure to address every post requiring addressing in great detail to appease your idiocy and just be late to everything. Cuz that'd be a greeeaaaaat idea. Fuck off.

[SFG]

Okay well I'm going to try to make a real post. I never realized so much as now how much being in a deliriously happy relationship affects your ability to think.

ISO of Dram.
Post 5 bugs me, you don't even know who/if you're voting? what the hell...
Reasonable amount of thought-out debate about flavorclaiming. I'm starting to wonder if I wasn't wrong about that.
Post 10 rubs me the wrong way
Post 20 is the most retarded reason I have ever seen for sweeping a perfectly valid argument under the rug.
And somehow despite all this, I'm getting the feeling dram is town. And I don't know why. asdffasdfasdfasdfasdfasdfasdf.

While I'm on D's lets go back to DRK.
The thing about DRK is that his excuse for being emo and emotional ran out a week or so ago and the recent yelling is going quite counter to that. I mean, I can understand being upset for all the shithouse that was the week of August 15th. But now? Things are better and he's still going off.

bleh I can't concentrate at all, sorry. Phayt~ <3

[SFG]

Yes, I'm not particularly happy with the fact that my gut is screaming in opposition to my logic about dram's alignment either. Hence the aoeifdakds at the end. Now time to finish running out the door.

[SFG]

Okay, I'm going to give you one argument for the sake of the rest of the town but mostly I've been ignoring you because your "points" have no substance and tbh I'm losing interest in this game when the only people who bother posting are the ones who I think are prob-scum. I'm going to make a note that yesterday, I thought Neto was scummy until I made a (now shown false) connection between Neto and Cop and tried to protect him for that reason. I'd love to see you find an anti-town motivation there...

One post exchange.

1. Ok this is odd.This exchange here between Haylen and SFG. Haylen brings out a point. SFG actually jumps on the thought wagon about Nikanor's lack of contribution. I can see it at this point and time, except SFG specifically said he was waiting for Nikanor to demonstrate more of the same activity. This is odd since he voted after Haylen which looks like a person jumping on the same thought wagon. Not necessarily the same bandwagon, but a person who's jumping on a potential start to a new one.

There's no point in suppressing the reasons for my read when someone else mentions them outright. Whether you believe me or not, I did indeed discover this beforehand and it is very similar to something I did in an earlier game.

I went back and did an Iso read of SFG up to this point.

Iso 0-1: Early game banter/pre-game banter.
Iso 2: Good RQS questions
Iso 3: Theory explaination about RQS, posting to say that he's away as well.
Iso 4: Reaction to "actions" and "Claims" (Ihmo joke fluff)
Iso 5,6: TL fluff

It was actually there to update the town on how far my meta reading had gotten, much the same way as one replacing in would update the town on how far their reading had come.

Iso 7: Saying that Isos 0-1, 4-6 are not real posts because they don't fit the whole: it's logical/contain analysis,quotes, etc.

Yes, I firmly believe that joking about the game and playing the game are different things even if they happen to occur in the same thread by the necessity of rules. So lynch me if you have a problem with that.

Iso 8: Ranting about another open game and votes Reck due to cross game.

That's actually closer to saying "if we had a policy lynch to burn I would totally burn it on Reck because I've had bad experiences with him." If you bother to read my post it makes it faaaiiiirly obvious that this is RVS. But sure feel free to distort it however your scummy mind wishes.

Aside: I like the RVS, but there hasn't been a lot of RQS analysis. I assume it's too early at this point

Make note to self look to make sure SFG does use the RQS to analyze like he said

||||

I actually believe that Ythill has pulled it out on someone already, even if I haven't gotten around to it yet you can't deny that its been useful.

Iso 9: Mass name/flavour claim contribution. Pro to mass claiming.
Iso 10: Win con is different from TL
Iso 11: Tells Kitty and Reck to stop fighting. There is lots of time to find scum. But there are no actual reads on Kitty nor Reck so disbanding the fight is odd. The moment you say there is time to find scum then you're not doing it right.

I replied to this already.

Iso 12: Mod apology
Iso 13, 14: Retort to the back fire from the Mod apology I mentioned before.
Iso 15: Self meta (also I now see poor excuse to not improve scum hunting play. People learn from mistakes and after experience scum hunting it comes more naturally.)

I didn't say I wasn't learning or trying new things, I said that my D1 play was weak. Because I don't have some sort of unreasonable expectation that I'm going to suddenly go from being horribad D1 to being uberpro D1. You're misrepresenting me nicely. I notice you also didn't mention the very carefully planned softclaim I slipped into it that I explained later that really made up most of my D1 goal anyways. I mention this again pretty bitterly in ISO 30 if you're interested.

Iso 16: Self meta

This is not really self-meta so much as it is continued softclaiming that narrows my role possibilities by quite a bit. I was half-hoping someone would figure out that I'd pretty much narrowed my possibilities to exactly the role I have. Also, how is self-meta a scumtell? In my world, at least, self-meta is pretty powerful evidence.

Iso 17: Unvotes because reck's wagon was too big?

Unvoting in response to Cuttle's post implying that he wanted an immediate lynch. I like to lynch within a few days of deadline to maximize conversation, which benefits town. I elaborate my stance in ISO 35.

Um see the following vote count changes from Has

Vote Count the Second:

DeathRowKitty(3): Ythill, Faraday, TheLonging

xRECKONERx(3): SFG, Cuttlefish, DeathRowKitty

KittyMo(1): xRECKONERx
dramonic(1): KittyMo
haylen(1): Haylen
Faraday(1): Netopalis

Not Voting(2): dramonic, UncertainKitten

Vote Count the Third:

xRECKONERx(2): Cuttlefish, DeathRowKitty
haylen(2): Haylen, Ythill
KittyMo(1): xRECKONERx
dramonic(1): KittyMo
DeathRowKitty(1): TheLonging
TheLonging(1): Faraday

Not Voting(4): dramonic, UncertainKitten, Netopalis, SFG

Here is the start of the 3 votes on Reck
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... &start=175

The game

was not close to any lynch

. SFG unvotes the next page and guess what, no one voted reck in between the two votes. BS reasoning abounds.

See above.

Iso 18: Says people need to post moar. Will vote the person with the lowest posts to get activity up. (Not scum hunting)

Yes, and I do it as town all the time because silly me, I HATE inactivity with a fiery passion.

Iso 19: Tells reck to take a chill pill. This is not RVS.

You may have noticed my recent stance on making people explode/meltdown and why its not appropriate or helpful to scumhunting.

Iso 20: Tells Ythill he's helping with the inactivty.

This is another one of those joke-y types of posts that I talked about before, y'know the things you aren't allowed to say out-of-thread so you have to say them in-thread but they aren't really relevant to the game? Yeah I'm not afraid to say those things.

Iso 21: Votes Nikanor.

Whoa, wait SFG

didn't vote to promote activity from iso 18 - 21

. If you read SFG's vote on Nikanor above, he votes him on a scum reason that Haylen said first but SFG noticed earlier. Lying SFG much?

I don't mind the fact that you voted for someone for being scummy over someone for being in active. But when you use Iso 19 to tell Ythill that you're helping in activity in Iso 20 where you didn't follow through in Iso 19 of said vote, well now that's scummy.

Well if you bother noticing that the original case on Cuttle was something along the lines of "Cuttle is lurking and he lurks when he's scum and not when he's town so he's probably scum" it might help enlighten you. You are again kind of misrepping what I'm saying here.

Also when I said the fluff content was high in your posts consider the following:
Out of 22 posts you did
Full fluff posts in 4,5,6
Posted without scum hunting content in (above and) 7, 11 , 12, 17, 18, 19, 20*

Aside: I used the criteria if the person was actively pursuing a case, or expanding on a case on someone. I decided to be generous and allow defense posts too. Also 20 is a special case since I'm using it in an argument thus 20 is included due to the whole: SFG didn't actually vote an in active person for the reasons outlined in 18.

Because lo and behold, activity picked up and I got posts from KittyMo in plentitude and one from Neto, as well as several from Faraday, Reck, and Ythill. OMG I DID WHAT I SAID I WAS GOING TO DO I MUST BE SCUMMY MC SCUM-SCUM!

Posted things not from this game that influenced this game, 8

Now if you add all of that up, and used it in a noise ratio 11*/22 (10/22 if you don't include 20 because that was a defense post) posts contribute to noise that doesn't advance on your scum case, are fluff, or random reasons that exist for no reason. That's 50% (or 45%).

I probably used the wrong word in terms of actual fluff posts, and grouped it together with the full on noise that I read so far.

Summary:
1. SFG essentially piggy backed on Haylen's argument, voting only after some support was gained on the Nikanor wagon. This was scummy because SFG did not make any attack on Nikanor earlier (see ISO analysis), and if SFG had seen this behavior did not actively pursue this argument. Thus it looks like scum jumping on early support of a wagon.

Except that I mentioned it beforehand, just not specifically, and have a history of doing this as town. Nice try, though.

2. SFG unvoted Reck in fear of lynching Reck. However 3 people day 1 is not a wagon large enough to lynch someone. Thus it looks very likely that SFG is distancing from Reck. See my Iso analysis earlier to show how over the period of the two vote counts, the wagon did not go to L-1 over night. In fact the votes scattered to individual cases. Thus SFG's unvote is unwarrented, and his reasoning has no merit.

You got my motive wrong. I unvoted because people were starting to post about consolidating a lynch and I felt it was too early in the Day to be lynching someone. Thanks for conveniently ignoring my entire explanation.

3. SFG did not follow through on his LAL stance (or Vote all lynchers if he's not a LAL kind of person). SFG used this in defense, when it was clear that SFG didn't actually contribute to getting inactive members posting or inactive members under pressure. Scummy scum scum. There was no follow up in this attack when SFG posted his ISO 18, and I want to know why.

I did indeed follow up. I asked for more activity, made a threat if such did not happen. Then more activity happened, so I did not follow through on my threat. It's really quite simple if you think about it.

Also

I'M FEMALE DAMMIT STOP CALLING ME "HE"!

[SFG]

fyi I still want SFG to answer me. Logic says scumminess is still there and I don't like it like that.

Wow did it ever occur to you that some of us have lives or something and aren't yknow necessarily on 24/7 like you are? You made a textwall case and expected me to have a response within 6 hours lulz. I'm starting to seriously doubt your intelligence.

[SFG]

Did you not read my textwall at all? You're accusing me of not responding to your points when I literally just spent about an hour doing so. Go fuck yourself.

[SFG]

Okay DTM, since it has become increasingly obvious that you are not capable of reading, I am going to help you. This website should work nicely if you can figure out which pictures to click on and all that and after that you can come back and reread this here I'll even repost it to make sure you don't have to go through the arduous task of navigating the website. It must be really really hard to play mafia without the ability to read and I have the greatest sympathies for your...condition.

Here you go.

Okay, I'm going to give you one argument for the sake of the rest of the town but mostly I've been ignoring you because your "points" have no substance and tbh I'm losing interest in this game when the only people who bother posting are the ones who I think are prob-scum. I'm going to make a note that yesterday, I thought Neto was scummy until I made a (now shown false) connection between Neto and Cop and tried to protect him for that reason. I'd love to see you find an anti-town motivation there...

One post exchange.

1. Ok this is odd.This exchange here between Haylen and SFG. Haylen brings out a point. SFG actually jumps on the thought wagon about Nikanor's lack of contribution. I can see it at this point and time, except SFG specifically said he was waiting for Nikanor to demonstrate more of the same activity. This is odd since he voted after Haylen which looks like a person jumping on the same thought wagon. Not necessarily the same bandwagon, but a person who's jumping on a potential start to a new one.

There's no point in suppressing the reasons for my read when someone else mentions them outright. Whether you believe me or not, I did indeed discover this beforehand and it is very similar to something I did in an earlier game.

I went back and did an Iso read of SFG up to this point.

Iso 0-1: Early game banter/pre-game banter.
Iso 2: Good RQS questions
Iso 3: Theory explaination about RQS, posting to say that he's away as well.
Iso 4: Reaction to "actions" and "Claims" (Ihmo joke fluff)
Iso 5,6: TL fluff

It was actually there to update the town on how far my meta reading had gotten, much the same way as one replacing in would update the town on how far their reading had come.

Iso 7: Saying that Isos 0-1, 4-6 are not real posts because they don't fit the whole: it's logical/contain analysis,quotes, etc.

Yes, I firmly believe that joking about the game and playing the game are different things even if they happen to occur in the same thread by the necessity of rules. So lynch me if you have a problem with that.

Iso 8: Ranting about another open game and votes Reck due to cross game.

That's actually closer to saying "if we had a policy lynch to burn I would totally burn it on Reck because I've had bad experiences with him." If you bother to read my post it makes it faaaiiiirly obvious that this is RVS. But sure feel free to distort it however your scummy mind wishes.

Aside: I like the RVS, but there hasn't been a lot of RQS analysis. I assume it's too early at this point

Make note to self look to make sure SFG does use the RQS to analyze like he said

||||

I actually believe that Ythill has pulled it out on someone already, even if I haven't gotten around to it yet you can't deny that its been useful.

Iso 9: Mass name/flavour claim contribution. Pro to mass claiming.
Iso 10: Win con is different from TL
Iso 11: Tells Kitty and Reck to stop fighting. There is lots of time to find scum. But there are no actual reads on Kitty nor Reck so disbanding the fight is odd. The moment you say there is time to find scum then you're not doing it right.

I replied to this already.

Iso 12: Mod apology
Iso 13, 14: Retort to the back fire from the Mod apology I mentioned before.
Iso 15: Self meta (also I now see poor excuse to not improve scum hunting play. People learn from mistakes and after experience scum hunting it comes more naturally.)

I didn't say I wasn't learning or trying new things, I said that my D1 play was weak. Because I don't have some sort of unreasonable expectation that I'm going to suddenly go from being horribad D1 to being uberpro D1. You're misrepresenting me nicely. I notice you also didn't mention the very carefully planned softclaim I slipped into it that I explained later that really made up most of my D1 goal anyways. I mention this again pretty bitterly in ISO 30 if you're interested.

Iso 16: Self meta

This is not really self-meta so much as it is continued softclaiming that narrows my role possibilities by quite a bit. I was half-hoping someone would figure out that I'd pretty much narrowed my possibilities to exactly the role I have. Also, how is self-meta a scumtell? In my world, at least, self-meta is pretty powerful evidence.

Iso 17: Unvotes because reck's wagon was too big?

Unvoting in response to Cuttle's post implying that he wanted an immediate lynch. I like to lynch within a few days of deadline to maximize conversation, which benefits town. I elaborate my stance in ISO 35.

Um see the following vote count changes from Has

Vote Count the Second:

DeathRowKitty(3): Ythill, Faraday, TheLonging

xRECKONERx(3): SFG, Cuttlefish, DeathRowKitty

KittyMo(1): xRECKONERx
dramonic(1): KittyMo
haylen(1): Haylen
Faraday(1): Netopalis

Not Voting(2): dramonic, UncertainKitten

Vote Count the Third:

xRECKONERx(2): Cuttlefish, DeathRowKitty
haylen(2): Haylen, Ythill
KittyMo(1): xRECKONERx
dramonic(1): KittyMo
DeathRowKitty(1): TheLonging
TheLonging(1): Faraday

Not Voting(4): dramonic, UncertainKitten, Netopalis, SFG

Here is the start of the 3 votes on Reck
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... &start=175

The game

was not close to any lynch

. SFG unvotes the next page and guess what, no one voted reck in between the two votes. BS reasoning abounds.

See above.

Iso 18: Says people need to post moar. Will vote the person with the lowest posts to get activity up. (Not scum hunting)

Yes, and I do it as town all the time because silly me, I HATE inactivity with a fiery passion.

Iso 19: Tells reck to take a chill pill. This is not RVS.

You may have noticed my recent stance on making people explode/meltdown and why its not appropriate or helpful to scumhunting.

Iso 20: Tells Ythill he's helping with the inactivty.

This is another one of those joke-y types of posts that I talked about before, y'know the things you aren't allowed to say out-of-thread so you have to say them in-thread but they aren't really relevant to the game? Yeah I'm not afraid to say those things.

Iso 21: Votes Nikanor.

Whoa, wait SFG

didn't vote to promote activity from iso 18 - 21

. If you read SFG's vote on Nikanor above, he votes him on a scum reason that Haylen said first but SFG noticed earlier. Lying SFG much?

I don't mind the fact that you voted for someone for being scummy over someone for being in active. But when you use Iso 19 to tell Ythill that you're helping in activity in Iso 20 where you didn't follow through in Iso 19 of said vote, well now that's scummy.

Well if you bother noticing that the original case on Cuttle was something along the lines of "Cuttle is lurking and he lurks when he's scum and not when he's town so he's probably scum" it might help enlighten you. You are again kind of misrepping what I'm saying here.

Also when I said the fluff content was high in your posts consider the following:
Out of 22 posts you did
Full fluff posts in 4,5,6
Posted without scum hunting content in (above and) 7, 11 , 12, 17, 18, 19, 20*

Aside: I used the criteria if the person was actively pursuing a case, or expanding on a case on someone. I decided to be generous and allow defense posts too. Also 20 is a special case since I'm using it in an argument thus 20 is included due to the whole: SFG didn't actually vote an in active person for the reasons outlined in 18.

Because lo and behold, activity picked up and I got posts from KittyMo in plentitude and one from Neto, as well as several from Faraday, Reck, and Ythill. OMG I DID WHAT I SAID I WAS GOING TO DO I MUST BE SCUMMY MC SCUM-SCUM!

Posted things not from this game that influenced this game, 8

Now if you add all of that up, and used it in a noise ratio 11*/22 (10/22 if you don't include 20 because that was a defense post) posts contribute to noise that doesn't advance on your scum case, are fluff, or random reasons that exist for no reason. That's 50% (or 45%).

I probably used the wrong word in terms of actual fluff posts, and grouped it together with the full on noise that I read so far.

Summary:
1. SFG essentially piggy backed on Haylen's argument, voting only after some support was gained on the Nikanor wagon. This was scummy because SFG did not make any attack on Nikanor earlier (see ISO analysis), and if SFG had seen this behavior did not actively pursue this argument. Thus it looks like scum jumping on early support of a wagon.

Except that I mentioned it beforehand, just not specifically, and have a history of doing this as town. Nice try, though.

2. SFG unvoted Reck in fear of lynching Reck. However 3 people day 1 is not a wagon large enough to lynch someone. Thus it looks very likely that SFG is distancing from Reck. See my Iso analysis earlier to show how over the period of the two vote counts, the wagon did not go to L-1 over night. In fact the votes scattered to individual cases. Thus SFG's unvote is unwarrented, and his reasoning has no merit.

You got my motive wrong. I unvoted because people were starting to post about consolidating a lynch and I felt it was too early in the Day to be lynching someone. Thanks for conveniently ignoring my entire explanation.

3. SFG did not follow through on his LAL stance (or Vote all lynchers if he's not a LAL kind of person). SFG used this in defense, when it was clear that SFG didn't actually contribute to getting inactive members posting or inactive members under pressure. Scummy scum scum. There was no follow up in this attack when SFG posted his ISO 18, and I want to know why.

I did indeed follow up. I asked for more activity, made a threat if such did not happen. Then more activity happened, so I did not follow through on my threat. It's really quite simple if you think about it.

Also

I'M FEMALE DAMMIT STOP CALLING ME "HE"!

[SFG]

Hey, I gave you your argument and you were too stupid to actually figure out what I was saying. You also seem to believe that it would be even possible for me to get away with making broad self-meta statements without having the ability to back myself up if anyone asked. No player in their right mind, scum or not, would ever make a completely indefensible statement early on D1 and just kind of hope that nothing happened. I'm sorry that you're too stupid to figure out what I'm saying and I'm going to ignore you now because you aren't making valid points and when I point out how invalid they are you just restate your original argument plus a few lame and obviously untrue additions. Have a nice day.

[SFG]

Like in 4. You did a good job in getting information as stated by you: when you mentioned Ythill used your analysis for his own. But you lacked in follow up. I find this a valid point.

The game doesn't end Today you know, or at least, it doesn't if the mod is competent and such. I said I'd use it later in the game. I was inactive for most of Today thus far because of life in a way that's pretty damn confirmable if you want me to start linking my college website, facebook, #mafia, produce chatlogs between myself and Phayt, whatever. I understand that being inactive for most of Today prevented me from having already implemented stuff but unless I die really damn soon, which I doubt because I suck at getting nightkilled and I'm not about to let the town lose a mislynch, I will still have time to implement it Tomorrow. That said, if a majority of players tell me to replace out because I'm playing badly or whatever, then I will honor their wishes. I just find it rather highly ludicrous that you just come in here, start throwing half-educated shit all over the place about things that we've already been over, and things that haven't had a chance to happen yet, then replace out just as you realize how wrong you are. If by some miracle you are town, then I would like you to please stop tunnelling and get back to doing productive things. Go ISO DRK or something. Stop thinking about or responding to my posts for 24 hours and instead respond do oh I dunno, maybe everything else that's going on in this thread? Thnx.

Or 10. How you brushed off a valid point about defence with: "it's a joke". Which is a lot of things.

I'm not going to refrain from enjoying myself when I'm playing a game, if that's what you mean. There will be banter and teasing and maybe even the posting of pictures. Deal.

How are the above invalid? If you're just going to call me stupid all day long and whine about it then do that. Phate had more decency to address me on why he thought this way. You apparently don't.

That is a blatant lie. Phayt would merely have taken your entire textwall and wrote NO U in bold and the largest size possible with maybe an underline for emphasis. At least I gave you the dignity of explaining patiently why everything you said was wrong. In fact, I would say that my posting is growing progressively more Phayt-like over time as I get sick of your stupid clogging up the thread.

[SFG]

Oh also, on an unrelated note,

Vote: Cuttlefish

. I'd also be willing to lynch Reck or Neto/DTM/whoever.

[SFG]

I'd rather lynch Nik if that's okay with you dram?

[SFG]

Just for once I'd like a two week period when nothing bad happens to anyone in this game to finally get a fucking read on some of them.

[SFG]

My life has just taken a gut-wrenching turn for the worse. I'll try to keep up but no guarantees. I stand by my statement that if the majority of people vote that I need replacing at any point in time, I'll happily replace out.

[SFG]

Wait, both Ythill and Reck are claiming cop? This is just fucking ridiculous.

May I ask the bloc to consider Cuttlefish as a lynch candidate?

[SFG]

bumping for votecount

[SFG]

Ah, so its like me claiming survivor. Got it.

[SFG]

If you tried killing Faraday n1 and it didn't happen, why did your suspicions of Faraday not appear in Post 784 and why did you decide to lynch Faraday later on knowing full well that KittyMo claimed a jailkeep on you and that would be a perfectly normal reason for your kill not to have worked?

[SFG]

WTB activity

[SFG]

Why do I get the feeling that this game is going to be one of those games where I sit around being really fucking confused until I get to lylo and then get hammered for being really fucking confused? My brain says Reck is probably right and KittyMo may have been deceived, but...my gut says KittyMo is right and Reck is gambitting. It's not like my scumhunting is very good anyways. Or my modding. Or really any of several things that I'm simultaneously failing at right now. I'll just kind of hammer anyone who gets into range I guess.

[SFG]

oh fuck I just realized its mylo. Well, I guess town is pretty screwed then.

[SFG]

Reck I don't know if your cop or scum doing a gambit. That's why I'm not following you blindly.

[SFG]

if DRK is scum, KittyMo is scum imo.

Reck stop blindly accusing me of shit. I know I'm not a good player. I don't need you yelling at me for it. If you want to mislynch me for being an idiot, remember that I OFFERED that to you on D1 and you turned me down then. So get your facts straight, either I'm scum with some sort of a weird idea that I want to be lynched, or I'm town that isn't very good at playing.

[SFG]

Vote:SFG

Go ahead. Mislynch me. Lose. GG town.

[SFG]

I'm self-voting because I had this stupid impression that invitationals were supposed to be fun and I dont want to put cow through the misery of finding a replacement. Town's already lost this anyways whether it loses now or later is arbitrary and doesn't matter.

You think I'm scum anyways. Why don't you vote me?

[SFG]

I'm putting this game out of its misery. Do you honestly see anyone in here having fun? ANYONE? DTM was on the verge of quitting, you and dram have been yelling and whining and being upset the entire fucking game, DRK has been upset the whole game, KittyMo's kind of in the meh range. I guess you could argue that Faraday is enjoying himself.

unvote, vote: no lynch

[SFG]

SFG: Her only purpose in this game is to stimulate rapid bursts of conversation among players who actually know how to play the game.

[SFG]

everyone we are hammering no-lycne somtime around deadline and talkin in the meantime.

[SFG]

unvote

I said we're no-lynching at DEADLINE, not right off the bat.

Also, dramonic, we're no-lynching right now because imo NO ONE IN THE ROOM is cleared and lynching from a smaller pool gives us a higher hit rate. I DO suspect there is a godfather in this game simply on the basis that the Godfather and Miller roles tend to go hand in hand to give the right number of scum. I also want dramonic, Faraday, KittyMo, and DTM to fullclaim ASAP, although not necessarily in that order. Town needs ALL information on the table right now.

[SFG]

HEY HEY HOLD UP WE ARE NO WAY QUICKLYNCHING TODAY! QUICKLYNCH = GOOD FOR SCUM, BAD FOR TOWN. IF TOWN WANTS TO HAVE ANY FUCKING CHANCE OF WINNING, DO NOT FUCKING HAMMER YET!

[SFG]

Reck, what precisely do we lose by no-lynching? Pretty much anyone that dies is going to give us critical information to help us lynch correctly tomorrow.

[SFG]

Reck can you stop being an asshole for one fucking day and realize that I'm actually trying to help for a change? I realize I've been pretty pathetic this game, even more so than in most of my previous games. I realize, furthermore, that my role is a scummy one to have in the first place (which is part of why I've been hypersensitive all game) and if you want I can go enumerate the major life reasons that I've been flakey and unmotivated for almost the entire game. I would ask you to go back and try to read my posts in ISO in an UNBIASED manner if you really want to make a case on me.

[SFG]

@SFG: What do we GAIN by no-lynching? It's just delaying the inevitable. All it does is give mafia (aka you guys) a free kill to try and manipulate us one last time in a last-ditch effort to save the game for yourselves.

Pretty much anyone that dies is going to give us critical information to help us lynch correctly tomorrow.

Please read my posts instead of dismissing them with a skim.

[SFG]

Okay let me fucking spell it out for you, Reck.

1. if you die tonight, EVERYONE IN THE TOWN knows that DRK is scum with KittyMo. You've exchanged yourself for two scum, gj, now we only have one left to catch.
2. if dramonic dies tonight, ^
3. if DRK dies tonight, EVERYONE IN THE TOWN knows that you were lying and we have 2 scum, you and dramonic. gj, now we only have one left to catch
4. if KittyMo dies tonight, ^
5. if I die tonight, at least you guys will have to reconsider your views because a "scummy" townsperson is now dead. One eliminated from a pool of potential scum.
6. if Faraday dies tonight, ^
7. if Haylen dies tonight, ^
8. if DTM dies tonight, ^

I do believe that covers every base.

[SFG]

Reck, I'm calling you an asshole because you ARE an asshole. You would notice it if you listened to yourself. Many people agree with me on this point too. It has nothing to do with this game or that game, you're just an asshole.

[SFG]

OH not to mention, if you DON'T die, you get an investigation off on one of the ambiguous pool (not myself or Haylen) that can be really fucking helpful, or confirm your sanity against the investigation-confirmed pool (myself or Haylen) and that can also be really fucking helpful. Take your pick.

[SFG]

Okay let me rephrase myself to you, Reck.

You are messing up your reads in this game because you have tunnel vision on. I can see where it's coming from but its hurting your game and I don't want to get two scum only to be mislynched at lylo because you can't untunnel a townsperson. I'm trying to help you. You won't read my posts, you won't listen to the clear logic behind them, I'm sorry but I'm doing everything I can to help.

On a side note, you are an asshole.

[SFG]

Also, there's no info to be gained.
Assuming whoever dies is town.
Faraday, Haylen, you or DTM dying won't say anything really

I've already told you why I believe there is a Godfather in this game. I've also said that there is, from ANYONE'S PoV, exactly one scum among myself, DTM, Haylen, and Faraday. Even if we choose correctly between DRK/Kitty and dram/Reck, there's still the last scum in that pool, and narrowing it is useful.

FTR, I believe Reck is Cop based on balance mechanics if nothing else, but I am GOING to talk this out because this is my very analytical playstyle that you will find if you meta me on any game I've played.

Me or Reck dying will just turn into a wifom storm between the survivor and DRK/Kitty

No it won't, because afaik, I'm one of the few people actually wavering over the "sanity" issues, meaning my vote is a critical one and will go to the PAIR rather than the lone survivor based off of probability.

DRK or Kitty dying COULD give us info, but since the scum knows they seem to be advocating my death they've no reason to NK them since I'm town

I listed them as possibilities because I listed EVERY SINGLE PERSON. That's called "being thorough" and is a good trait in scumhunting.

Also, lynching from a smaller pool does increase the proportion of a scum getting hit by the lynch, however it also severely increases the potential for a mislynch. Currently the mafia need to convince 2 people in order to get a mislynch, if we no-lynch they'll only need one.

All right, I see where you're coming from and I accept the idea, but I would like more time to consider the pros and cons. Convince me, if you will, that the extra buffer is worth more than the extra hit rating (33% vs 25%, that's a BIG gap) and I'll consider hammering someone instead of no-lynch.

[SFG]

Posting from iPhone during class. I mean that if one person from either pair dies and flips town, IMO the other of that pair is town and the other pair is scum. Therefore I will cast my vote towards the other pair.

[SFG]

All right, analysis time. In this post, I will be analyzing patterns of suspicions. The format will be <suspectedplayer'sname> - <listofpeoplesuspectingthem> (<wheneachpersonsuspectedthem>). The order of names is taken from the first page. I'll bold things I find interesting.

Actually on second thought, I've been at this for an hour and I'm only on page 5, so from now on I am only adding posts with 1. votes/FoS's 2. scumlists and 3. end-of-Day suspicions.

DeathRowKitty -

UK (RVS)

,

Ythill (post 62),

Faraday (following Ythill), Reck (post 68), Neto/DTM (post 104), Neto/DTM (post 134),

Ythill (post 137),

Faraday (following Ythill),

TL 9post 148)

, Reck (post 282),

UK (post 379)

,

TL (at death)

,

dramonic (post 446),

dramonic (end of D1)

,

Faraday (end of D1)

,

Neto/DTM (end of D1)

,

Reck (end of D1)

,

dramonic - KittyMo (RVS/late confirm),

TL (post 273),

DRk (post 275), Haylen (post 284), Neto/DTM (post 338), SFG (post 381),

TL (at death)

,

DRK (end of D1)

,

Haylen (end of D1)

,

KittyMo (end of D1)

,

Neto/DTM (end of D1)

,

SFG (end of D1)

,

Faraday - DRK (post 51),

TL (post 74),

Neto/DTM (post 104), Nik (post 136), Neto/DTM (post 139),

Cuttlefish (end of D1)

,

Neto/DTM (end of D1)

,

TL (at death)

,

Haylen - Faraday (RVS),

TL (?),

Neto/DTM (post 104),

Cuttlefish (OMGUS),

Cuttlefish (end of D1)

,

Faraday (end of D1)

,

TL (at death)

,

UK (at death)

,

Ythill (end of D1)

,

KittyMo -

DRK (RVS)

, Neto/DTM (post 104),

dramonic (end of D1)

,

Ythill (end of D1)

,

DTMaster(rp. Netopalis) -

Ythill (post 62), Ythill again (post 329),

Reck (post 336),

UK (post 379),

DRK (end of D1)

,

dramonic (end of D1)

,

Faraday (end of D1)

,

KittyMo (end of D1)

,

UK (at death)

,

Reck (end of D1)

,

Ythill (end of D1)

,

SFG - Neto/DTM (post 104), dram (post 290),

Neto/DTM (end of D1)

,

xRECKONERx - SFG (post 111 RVS), Nik (post 136), DRK (post 157), SFG (post 337), [color=#40BF00][b]Cu ... 04]post 86), Reck (following Faraday), Faraday returns (post 187), KittyMo (post 230),

Ythill (post 253)

,

UK (post 379),

Cuttlefish (post 384)

,

DRK (end of D1)

,

Faraday (end of D1)

,

KittyMo (end of D1)

,

SFG (end of D1)

,

UK (at death)

,

Reck (end of D1)

,

Ythill (end of D1)

,

UncertainKitten - KittyMo (post 222), Reck (following KittyMo),

Cuttlefish -

Haylen (post 248), SFG (same reason as Haylen), Haylen again (post 394),

DRK (end of D1)

,

Haylen (end of D1)

,

KittyMo (end of D1)

,

SFG (end of D1)

,

Ythill -

Neto/DTM (post 120),

SFG (end of D1)

Additionally, this is the townlist, exactly like the above table except talking about who people think is town rather than who people think is scum.

DeathRowKitty - Haylen (post 284), SFG (post 381),

dramonic -

UK (post 379),

Faraday -

Ythill (post 62)

, SFG (post 381),

KittyMo - Reck (post 221), SFG (post 456),

TL (at death)

,

DTMaster(rp. Netopalis) - SFG (post 456),

Haylen - SFG (post 381),

SFG - Faraday (post 65), Nik (post 136),

UK (post 379),

KittyMo (post 447),

xRECKONERx - Neto/DTM (post 104),

UK (post 379),

SFG (post 456),

TheLonging -

UncertainKitten -

Neto/DTM (post 104), Reck (post 380), DRK (post 400), SFG (post 456),

TL (at death)

,

Cuttlefish -

Neto/DTM (post 104),

Ythill (post 253),

Ythill -

Neto/DTM (post 104),

UK (post 379),

SFG (post 456),

TL (at death)

,

ugh im getting really tired of this so this is only going through D1. Still useful though. Town is in green, obv.

[SFG]

IMO that previous post points to DTMscum. Also, interesting point by mod, if sanity flips then NL is even better.

ANOTHER NOTE: if we are lynching today, we are either lynching Reck or DRK. I've seen scum trip up town more than enough times with the whole "lets lynch the buddy instead" and then direct to the wrong buddy. We are not going to do that. K?

[SFG]

if Reck gets jailkept, then we will KNOW that KittyMo is scum. That's as good as Reck dying.

[SFG]

Sorry. I'll get a substantial post ether tomorrow (Wednesday) to Thursday Studying Genetics for my quizzes. Out of all the things we should do:

a. Mass claim from scumminess to towniness if we are lynching someone due to potential mylo situation.
b. VC analysis.

I'd much rather have all the cards on the table before we do anything. I believe the order of MC should go Faraday/DTM, Dram, SFG/Kitty (I'll reiterate why this order in my next post).

In case you hadn't noticed, I've already claimed. Thanks.

[SFG]

dramonic, while you're sitting around making random posts, would you mind claiming your role?

[SFG]

whoa townies actually exist in this game? I was seriously starting to wonder if we ALL had some sort of weird role.

[SFG]

Haylz, darling, please claim your role before you leave~ OwO

[SFG]

Still waiting for explicit claims from KittyMo, DTM, and Faraday.

[SFG]

BFF, can you back that statement up? Do you think Haylen is a Godfather then?

[SFG]

i think he means that dramonic is a dead horse...? not quite sure.

[SFG]

Actually, Reck, do you suppose you could paraphrase the flavor behind your claim? that'd be helpful.

[SFG]

oh, I'm stupid. Okay. Busy weekend is busy, but I'll try to make a textwall sometime in the next two days.

[SFG]

Or i could get violently ill, that works too...

[SFG]

k we can lynch today but we are going to no-lynch at some point because higher odds are better odds. The reason we can lynch today is because Reck and DRK have a 1v1 going where one of them all but HAS to be scum. Tomorrow we won't have that so we're going to NL tomorrow.

How does that sound to everyone?

[SFG]

mod: requesting votecount

^ thats how you do it on the forums, Reck. This isn't #mafia.

[SFG]

vote:DRK

I didn't want to vote until I had some confirmation that my wishes for an eventual NL had been noticed and logically processed.

[SFG]

If that ended the game and DRK was town, then I am going to have some serious words with the mod about bastard setups.

[SFG]

Oh, or it could be a scum frame artist that got lucky. Without the treestump this time.

[SFG]

Although also for the record, when I reread Cuttlefish I found a post early D1 that said something to the extent "if I were a vig I totally would shoot Faraday" that I really wish I'd noticed before we lynched him because that would have been helpful...

[SFG]

He was at l-2 and Faraday and I both voted after that. Faraday dropped the hammer. Yes, he is lynched.

[SFG]

Okay a few things.
1. I was right about the Godfather
2. WHY THE FUCK IS THERE A MILLER IF THE ONLY COP IS SCUM?

I feel like I should reasonably be able to conclude from my role PM that there is a town Cop in the setup somewhere. I'm more than a little pissed off that my trust on this was violated. I also want to know, cow, why precisely you think my play was aggressive enough to spam my inbox telling me to cool down? Have you NEVER played with ABR before? Or really anyone else who scumhunts aggressively?

Yeah, I'm pissed off. GG scum, you probably would have won anyways, but...I don't feel like you should have won when you did.

[SFG]

FTR hascow, if I'd known you had a reputation for what I would call borderline-bastard-modding, I would have put you on my list of do-not-want mods. Having said that, I suppose it's partially my fault for not researching mods enough.

[SFG]

So you say that you and the rest of the world have no compunction about giving a role that basically says "you're town with no special powers except to accidentally screw the entire town over"? Would you give a Poison Doctor in a game without a Poisoner in it? There are certain pairs that kind of go together and encourage the use of LOGIC over the use of WIFOM. I'm playing mafia because its a game of LOGIC. Not because its the game of "BTW I changed the understood rules on you randomly just to screw you over have fun".

According to you this means I should stick to Open or Semi-Open setups where at least the realm of possibility is normed and can be logicked through.

[SFG]

Ohhhh man. I both can and cannot believe that town did so poorly on the last day. I mean, with all the competent townies gone after Ythill's death I knew we'd be in for a rough ride and probably a loss, but I wasn't expecting anything this bad.

Now you know how I felt after the end of Open 209. Also, thanks for the lecture on emotions, I gave you guys full warning about that shit and you called me scummy for warning you.

[SFG]

I'm taking this to MD because even if Ythill and UK are jaded to the point that they don't care about misinformation (and also conveniently didn't bother to tell me that miller with scum cop/no cop was even ALLOWED in nonbastard setups), I do, and I made decisions from before the first post of the game onwards based on what really ought to have been, in my book, a valid assumption. We probably would have lost anyways, I'm certainly not saying town should have won this game, but I think we were handicapped when we shouldn't have been.

[SFG]

Ythill, darling, I'm not blaming you for the loss either. Although I do believe I made it fairly clear that I was spending a fair bit of my time trying to find and confirm the cop, that isn't really the point. I already mentioned, even before town lost, that I'd made a mistake pushing a Cuttlefish lynch that could have been very easily remedied by just rereading the guy, for instance. I'm just saying that the fact that as far as I knew, having a town Cop to balance a Miller was all but an inviolable truth had a very large portion in the final mislynch that decided the game, and I feel rather cheated for having had absolutely no reason to assume anything differently. I thought it was fairly? obvious that this was my thought pattern even before Ythill was nightkilled when I automatically cleared Ythill when he mentioned investigations and said something to the lines of "if Ythill is Cop, he must be town"? Maybe it's just that before this game I'd only ever played in open and semi-open setups on this site, and I was assuming this game would be a LOT more "normal" than it actually was. At any rate I had literally no reason to believe that mod WIFOM like that was even allowed and I think that's come out quite a bit, and I think it was partially responsible for the town loss.

Am I making any sense at all? I'm barely awake right now so if you need me to try again tomorrow or something that'd be cool too.

[SFG]

hascow, I don't know exactly why you're determined to be angry at me. You get angry at me for like literally everything I've done in this entire game. If you have that much of a problem with me, realize its your problem, bite your tongue, and don't play/mod with me again. Its quite simple. I stated my perspective and you stated yours. You reject my premise and I reject yours. There can be no agreement, so let it go.

[SFG]

Okay since people seem to be consistently completely misinterpreting what I have said in post game, which I suppose is understandable considering how emotionally charged it originally was, my complaints against hascow are as following:

1. Telling repeatedly me that my posts/playstyle were completely unacceptable and I should replace out during the game.
2. Not giving fair warning that reasonable inferences could be wrong

The thread in MD directly addresses 2 and why I think I should be given fair warning. If you won't listen to me about my topic and how and where it includes bastard modding, which is what I accused hascow of, listen to Elmo. He has the crux of my argument spot-on. hascow directly disagrees with 2 for reasons I cannot fathom, but that makes that part of the argument irreconcilable until one of us can accept the others' position as valid. As for 1, an apology would be nice, but I'm taking the again reasonable solution that if cow doesn't want me in his games and I don't like being harrassed by him during mine, that we should simply not play together.

[SFG]

Well now at least I have proof that someone else agrees with me that a Miller considered by the mod to be a Townie as far as balance is concerned puts their team at a disadvantage because they will play in a way consistent with their role that is suboptimal play as a Townie.

[SFG]

I don't consider it to be a townie as far as balance is concerned.

I don't really consider neighbors a power role, because it doesn't usually affect a lynch at all(see: this game), and

a miller is basically a VT.

Vig and Motivator can hurt town just as easily as they can help town. Jailkeeper can stop town power roles from getting a result just as easily as stop a kill. The JOAT was the only truly town-helping power role, IMO. I felt like the setup was pretty balanced overall.

>_> forgive me if I misunderstood

[SFG]

Ythill, what is your problem with me? Seriously. I've clarified that my definition of "bastard mod" as cow falls under it is not within cow's definition of "bastard mod", demonstrated precisely why I had called him that in symbolic logic format, explained each of my premises out in detail, if I haven't apologized for yelling at cow, I will now (can't remember if I have or not), and carefully explained what I want and why I want it. Instead of engaging me in logical debate, you have accused me of throwing a tantrum, yelled at me for bad play, and written off every attempt I have made at explaining my perspective. Are you trolling me? I'm not sure, you didn't seem like the troll type and honestly I liked you and still do like you and would like to think that you're better than that.

[SFG]

Okay so apparently this isn't quite explicit enough. Here it is as clearly and bluntly as I can put it because apparently Ythill sucks at reading me.

I played badly in this game by derailing the Neto wagon onto TL and thereby creating a lynch on town instead of scum
I played badly in this game by lurking during most of Day 2 and being fairly apathetic
I played badly in this game by assuming that the Cop was town
I played badly in this game by not pushing the town enough to NL on Day 3
I played badly in this game by having an emotional breakdown on Day 3 and self-voting
I played badly in this game by having an emotional breakdown on Day 1 and asking to be lynched
I played badly in this game by listening to someone I thought was scum
I played badly in this game by biasing my reads based on nameclaims and misrepresenting them
I played badly in this game by not using one of my normal scumhunting methods on the grounds that people had previously thought it was bad (even though it had worked)
I played badly in this game by not pushing the reads of dead people like I usually do
I played badly in this game by not rereading/ISO'ing people when I should have been
I played badly in this game by moving the voting bloc from scum to town again on Day 2

It was NOT my fault that I assumed this game contained a scum godfather and a town cop based on my role, having NO WAY OF KNOWING that this was NOT NECESSARILY THE CASE.

That is the ONLY thing I am excusing myself for and I am completely within my rights to do so, so stop blaming me for something I had every reason to believe and was given no reason not to believe.

[SFG]

SFG: Unless mafia is your life...

This is actually mostly true, ftr. Judge me as you will.

[SFG]

NO WAY OF KNOWING that this was NOT NECESSARILY THE CASE

[1] You could have read any number of topics in MD or any number of previous games on this site. You could have run a search for "miller" and done some role research. [2] Once you claimed, you could have asked the advice of your fellow players. [3] More importantly, you could have expressed your opinion in any number of appropriate places, including in specific discussions where it has come up in the recent past. [4] Or you could have waited and then expressed the opinion in a way that doesn't insult someone.

[5] What you did was react to a mistake

that you made

by blaming someone else [6] in a way that insulted him. Ad nauseum. [7] Via public appeal, ridiculous strawmen, ego masturbation, false altruism, caps lock rage, and unfounded accusations. [8] All in spite of dozens of people telling you that you are wrong.
[9] This is the second thread I have participated in that you have reduced to childish drama over nothing and, frankly, I'm getting tired of it.

You're right.

[SFG]

no hugs for you from the fail train.

[SFG]

You're inherently flawed....

Furthermore, if you do not wish to play my games, because you suspect me to be acting against the interests of my players, I request that you do not.

Until you are capable of playing a mafia game without the enormous amount of emotional investment you place in them, your games will continue to be plagued by a feedback loop of poor play, drama, and stress.

at best you're not cut out for closed games, and at worst you're a gigantic asshat

If you're going to choose to act like that and insist on having a problem with me pointing out that you are doing so, then maybe you should GTFO.

Ohhhh man. I both can and cannot believe that town did so poorly on the last day. I mean, with all the competent townies gone after Ythill's death I knew we'd be in for a rough ride and probably a loss, but I wasn't expecting anything this bad.

SFG: Unless mafia is your life (and I'm pretty sure that for you it is not), you should not be letting your emotions come into play this much in a game. If you can't control your emotions more than this, then long-term forum mafia is not the game for you.

So between that and Seacore's and SFG's reads (hey, she had to be right sooner or later)

In retrospect, I realise that I actually didn't expect SFG to flip scum when I voted for her. I think it was just a "if she IS scum, I don't want her to win"

Unless SFG has been cleared, I'm gonna put some money on SFGscum. Or just really bad town.

^ especially ironic coming from what I consider to be my best game.

and last but not least: less confusing
[16:30] <Nikanor> You still failed hard.

I think that counts as a little more than one tanker of oops and I learned from my last internet home that hanging around a group of people who have nothing but contempt for you isn't worthwhile, so I'm going to go find another home now hopefully. I can read the writing on the wall.

[SFG]

EBWOP: ignore the c-v fail please.

[SFG]

Ythill, after Open 209 I decided to give mafia on this website one last try. This was that last try and convinced me more than anything else that I should leave. (In case you didn't notice, many of those quotes came from games earlier than this one.) Last time I checked, that did not count as running away.

Seriously though, how can you yell at me for defending myself, then turn around a breath later and offer me hugs, then tell me "you are incapable of growing much love"? I don't even know what to make of what you're telling me anymore because it adds up to a bunch of arrows pointing in different and frequently opposite directions.

[SFG]

If my skin hasn't been thickened by my previous home or the home before that, I sincerely doubt that MS will do anything to help. I doubt my mind will be sharpened because I get emotionally committed to my home (MS) and, when I'm extremely stressed about something I'm emotionally committed to, my ability to think gets effectively disabled. As for making me a better person overall, I don't really see what you're getting at here at all.