Mini 1011: Help! My Computer Got Infected! (Game over!)

[diginova]

Hi, I'm the replacement for Gandalf. I'll start with an UNVOTE: while I read the thread.

[diginova]

Ah 2 kills. Most likely there is a vig here and he killed piraka.

How would you know that piraka was the vig kill and not xvart? Maybe you sent in the kill...

And sorry about not getting my reads in. Day 1 ended abruptly, coming up shortly.

[diginova]

EBWOP: Also, JJ, why did you OMGUS vote Day 2? There's information out, it just makes you look very scummy.

[diginova]

To begin, I realize that my slot originally was wagoned becuase of gross inactivity, and I apologize for not being any better than that. Time for my reads over the first 18 pages, and I'll be more active from here on out.

There really hasn't been much in the way of overall reads, with the wagons mainly based on a point or two, so I'm going to make reads on the main wagons, starting with jj. (Sorry about the long post; it's pretty much my slot's first post in 18 pages.)

JellyJiggler

In Iso4, you go after xvart-town for his #65. While #65 has almost no information in it, I'm not seeing anything worth a vote. His view on vezok-town is on a very minor point, and though it is blown slightly out of proportion, doesn't really deserve a vote. His vote on FakeGod is worse, as it's just based on WIFOM, yet nothing in that post is really worth a vote. FakeGod's response in 88 is worse, as it's pretty much just OMGUS that was waiting until someone else added suspicion so he could fly under the radar.

In Iso6, you state that it's better to look for people going after people who are joking because they're trying to start a lynch out of nothing. That is just wrong. The whole point of the RVS stage in a game is to get people discussing, and if nobody takes those points and runs with it, we would never actually get into useful discussion that would help us find scum.

It is interesting that in your very next post you tell xvart "good luck trying to figure out who is joking on the internet", yet your previous post is based off of finding people who are joking. Overall rather null, but interesting nonetheless.

Iso8-14 really say nothing. They're all one-line posts replying to an OMGUS vote and giving background information without scumhunting.

In Iso15 he's saying that active lurking is an unreliable scumtell. An interesting opinion since you were pretty much active lurking for the last 4 days.

Iso18 is his claim. I'm not sure what to think of his vanilla claim, as any useful reaction that I could analyze is muddied by Tazaro's massive bursts of craplogic. Truthfully, I find a VT claim to be a null read, as this is a theme game and the scum have probably been given fakeclaims, and by claiming vanilla you don't have to make up anything down the line.

Iso19-21 he elaborates on his position on active lurking, and then has an exchange with UK about her implicating him.

Based on their overall interactions, I really don't thing that UK and jj are on the same side, as they seem to be leading each other and trying to rile each other up. If jj flips town, UK is probably scum, and vice versa. More in my UK analysis later.

Though he says he's not distancing himself from screl in Iso22, he is, with most of his analysis being at best grossly overanalyzed and at worst craplogic.

Moving into day 2, following up on Iso28:

On a list of most useful people xvart would probably be near the top while piraka being dead last. It's a pretty safe assumption if you consider the alternative of 2 mafia kills a day.

Why would the scum *not* choose to kill a claimed power role? Vezo's horrendous breadcrumb in 49 (not even really a breadcrumb since he just claimed his roles outright) would give scum an incentive to kill before Vezo's myriad powers can take effect.

I almost think this isn't even worth an answer. A stupid vote deserves a stupid vote. Besides, screl was my 1st choice at the end of day 1.

JJ:

How did the flips and the information we gained based on voting patterns and nightkills confirm your suspicions on screl, thus giving a reason for it and making it not an OMGUS vote?

PieMan

I hate you, SC, for giving out that post restriction. It's just evil.
Just wanted to touch on one thing from PieMan: the post that eventually got Tazaro modkilled. Tazaro claimed in 390 that he had only been in one completed game, and was in 4 more ongoing. Also, he was overall very jumpy, and was defending every time someone even said anything about him. What did you think asking him for his meta would do that you couldn't get from clicking twice and just finding the games yourself?

My reaction to the cop result and UK's posts coming up next.

[diginova]

I already posted my analysis on jj, and I was on the fence about voting him until 473 came along. I'll try to keep quote stripes to a minimum, and sorry about the wall.


jj begins by saying "In a way this situation is pretty similar to a gambler's fallacy except in this case there are people trying to get you to pick the wrong choice which makes it more likely that we pick the wrong choice." That makes absolutely no sense. Though I prefer not using meta as an argument for a lynch, the fact that SC has used insane cops in the past means that there is a chance he can use them now. However, you seem to have flipped your reason for the vote once people started doubting sanity.

I point you to your 464: "But I'm still voting you mostly by chance because I don't see any good leads and I think a semi-random(because of my hunch) guess will catch scum more likely than speculation." So is your vote based on the fact that you believe Twomz is a sane cop (as you stated before) or just on a "hunch" as a "semi-random" guess (as you stated this time)? It seems like you're just trying to have deniability, and there's no reason to do that as town.

Next, "Any idiot can just come up content. I see you asking a lot of questions but I don't see much analyzing." You aren't really doing that much analysis yourself, and what you do is mostly IIoA, or has a defensive clause built into it in case someone calls you out. Back to 464 again when you explained the case on UK: "but hey nothing is for certain". Stick your head out there and actually give your own opinion on something! Seeing responses to accusations is one of our main weapons in lynching the scumbags, and just following along with the crowd really doesn't help us out at all in the end.

Continuing, "Also, pretty much anything can be rationalized as being town or scum." Well, duh. What is the point of that? To me, it seems like you're again just trying to throw doubt into the mix to any reads that are given, especially your own, which is a very scummy thing to do as the whole point of Mafia is to take all the information as a whole and rationalize it and then find out which way overall the information is leading us.

"No, it's because your first assumption is that I am trying to defend whoever that person was." That's pretty much exactly what you're trying to do when you answer questions for other players. Asking questions and getting an answer, no matter how inane, is useful. Having people come in and answer questions for them seems to me like scum trying to make it so the other player doesn't have to answer, which

is

defending them, though indirectly.

"Thats not something something I would consider to be a first response in a regular conversation which is how I intended it to be." What? Please explain.

"A vote somewhere in the middle would have been a much better choice if I wanted to avoid attention besides I am always the center of attention in every game." Again, please explain. This makes no sense. Also, why do you keep trying to rationalize a vote that someone finds scummy? How does constantly defending yourself help us scumhunt?

"I don't like answering these pointless questions because none of them have any real answers and do you think I actually know? I don't think you could find a good objective answer." Since when does anyone want objective answers in the game of mafia? Mafia is a subjective game. Most questions asked have no objective answer, and objective answers are completely useless. Give your

own

answers to the questions, based on your reasoning and your analysis during the game, no matter how unpopular they are, instead of giving the answer people want to hear.

"I actually kind of want to unvote you now because of that but that has been poorly received by people who thought I was a newb." Yet again, why do you care what people think?

"Aw what the hell I'm not particularly against being lynched anyway ". Let me let that sink in for a minute.

NO. So you're giving up already just because you have a couple votes on you

when tomorrow could possibly be LyLo?

Give an opinion, start giving your analysis, don't just give up.

Now, if you said that in a gambit to try to make people think you were town, it's not working, as there would be no reason for a townie to allow themself to be mislynched day 2.

Overall, this entire game, whenever jj has given an opinion, no matter how small, he has also given himself an out in the same post to go back on it in case the opinion becomes unpopular. He's actively trying to sit in the middle of the pack and get as few people to notice him as possible. It's not working. VOTE: jelly jiggler


Sadly, it seems like it will either by MyLo or LyLo tomorrow if we mislynch, as 2/3 scum for a 12-player game seems pretty normal. If Twomz's investigation turns up that he is sane, then UK is mafia and should be strung up as fast as possible. However, if Twomz turns out insane, I think that PieMan is one of the scum we are trying to find. Just look at 504.

Twomz iz maf, UK iz maf, in a day or 2 we will have teh option of UK, or some1 else, who iz knot maf, or I guezz teh maf culd keep him alive bcuz he iz insain, and tri 2 use him 4 a l8 lynch on UK. That iz teh basik koncpt.

Just no. What you are saying is that if Twomz turns out insane our only choice at lynch would be UK or someone else who is town? First, why would we ever want to lynch between a choice of two confirmed townies? If he gets two guilty verdicts in a row, then we know that something's up and we don't trust his results. Second, an insane cop is still very useful once he knows he is insane, as he can just flip his results and Twomz is probably going to investigate one of the most town players tonight, and so we can tell if he is sane or not.

Why would the mafia want to "keep him alive because he is insane, and try to use him for a late lynch on UK"? Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're saying that the mafia wants to keep him alive to use a fellow member as a lynch target? Unless the second half of your statement is assuming they're both town, and in that case I repeat: Insane does not mean paranoid. UK will be cleared or her death sentence signed tonight depending on Twomz's investigation.


jj is now at L-1. I would say not to vote him until he claims, but he seems to already have in 464:

but its not like I'm really enthusiastic about posting anyway probably due to me being a vanilla.

[diginova]

PieMan, I'm not sure what you mean. Could someone who doesn't have a PR and understands translate it?

From my understanding, he's saying that both Twomz and UK are mafia, and this whole cop claim is a gambit if he survives the night since he'd be able to claim a fake investigation in LyLo.
He doesn't understand why the mafia would let a claimed cop live. It's mainly just a load of WIFOM that doesn't help at all.
I still don't get the last sentence. I think he's still confused as to what an insane cop means and that insane cops can still provide useful investigations.

[diginova]

I don't think a Twomz/UK mafia exists, as I think the cop claim is legitimate. UK/Fakegod, well that all depends on if we get another investigation, but I could see them as partners.

[diginova]

Also: If there is a vig/sk (probable due to the two kills last night), I would not recommend killing tonight. If you hit a townie and the mafia kill goes through, there's a chance that that would be an instant loss.

[diginova]

Great... the cop died. Now we have no clue of sanity.
And we still can't really do any wagon analysis since we haven't killed a mafia member yet.
And to top it all off, it's probably LyLo.

Going to reread to see if UK had any mafia tells other than the cop investigation.

[diginova]

I think mass claim is a good idea... I do agree with UK starting, so if she is mafia, she could be caught out on a fakeclaim.

[diginova]

Oh, right, and finally, there have been two kills a night. Even if I were hypothetically mafia, a bulletproof power would be plausible.

That really reads like scum trying to explain away a fakeclaim. Why would anyone that isn't fakeclaiming need to question the plausibility of their role?

On top of that that guilty is a null tell, but you dumbasses refuse to actually SCUMHUNT, so guess it's derp our way to a loss because we followed a likely insane cop.

Your constant verbal attacks do not read like town at all; you've constantly gone and defended yourself without actually giving any useful cases. Even after you're telling us to scumhunt, you haven't been doing much of it D3. Your cross attacks with PieMan don't count; it reeks of mafia cross-voting each other in an effort to confirm one of them upon the flip.

A summary of your play, which reads really like cornered scum:

"Really intent on that easy mislynch, aren't you?" (Iso92)
"That's quite a risk to be taking on a suspect cop result, screl." (Iso99)
"So, what's hilarious, is Pieman is voting me in likely lylo. So, WELLP :V!" (Iso100)
"Didn't we establish the possibility of Twomz being insane? This hasn't been disproven, and in fact, by my perspective, proven." (Iso105)
There are more, but I won't bother quoting the rest.

In addition, your fear of quicklynches is a little excessive.

"I'd vote you now but the possibility of doubling quicklynch chances doesn't really appeal to me yet." (Iso101)
"Well, essentially, unless three scum pop out of the woodwork to quicklynch me, it's pretty obvious one of us is scum." (Iso102, nice scumslip, using "us")
"it's possible you're just sticking me in a dangerous position quite selfishly for when the mafia do show up, if they haven't already." (Iso104)

Yes, THREE SCUM who probably cannot daytalk with each other could happen to come on and vote *instantaneously*. You know what would happen if I got a notification that people were replying to the thread? I'd unvote, and then the people that started piling on without reasons would obviously be mafia, and we could pick them off one by one.

I'm going to

Vote: UncertainKitten

. This puts UK at L-1, so think long and hard about hammering, whoever does it.
Also, if UK flips scum, FakeGod is town. The opposite is probably true, but it will be too late then

[diginova]

Look at Iso85 for the most telling point... UK is doing the exact same thing that she was vehemently against yesterday.
We've got you, cornered scum. Goodbye.

...wait. Why the fuck are you asking who killed vezo and trying to OUT A VIG? What the fuck is wrong with you?

[diginova]

You keep going on about the insane cop.
You're the one who originally brought up the insanity defense:

This is Iso75.

So...wait, you all are trusting a "cop result"

In a bastard game?

Are...all your brains turned off or something? You actually assume Twomz is sane just cause he said so? If I might suggest something, I'd say, maybe, just MAYBE try to build an actual case before jumping on someone's results. See if a guilty makes sense, you know?

See, normally this argument is stupid, but I once again will point to the fact this is a BASTARD GAME. And guess what happened in SC's LAST bastard game? There were NON SANE COPS :O!

Even in a bastard game, sane cops are a very high probability. Just because a role was used once doesn't mean it will be used all the time. It really seems like scum trying to desperately stay alive at all costs, and you're trying to see if you can get everyone to believe your insane cop gambit if you keep insulting people and stating it over and over again. It lasted you one day, but that's as far as it goes.

This is LyLo, and you're our best bet. I stand behind my vote on UK, and I think it's getting close to hammer time.

On a side note, some meta that is not necessary for the case, but interesting:
Normally if a townie is investigated by a cop and gets a guilty in a game with a redirector, they don't claim insane cop. They claim miller or redirection. The fact that you went to insane cop from the get go means that you knew you would get a guilty result.

[diginova]

@digi plox xplain taht last part, and Y did u mention a re dirktorb?

Wow, confusing games I'm in. I fail. Ignore the redirector part.

Point still stands; if a townie gets a guilty verdict on them, they don't instantly call out "insane cop" and continue that constantly. They'll normally claim miller, something scum won't do.

[diginova]

How is a sane cop overpowered in a 9/3 without a doc? (Assuming there isn't a completely idiotic doc that didn't protect the cop)

[diginova]

Also, if UK flips scum, FakeGod is town. The opposite is probably true, but it will be too late then

What makes you say this?

Odd quotes, but that's another thing.

It's just the discourse between them that makes me believe they are on different teams. It's a little too complicated to be a bus, but you never know. Actually, now, it seems like it's screl that's on a different team, far more so than FakeGod, as UK keeps attacking him. 600 is the most telling:

I hope you enjoy your victory when I die screl. You managed to successfully lead a pack of morons into believe a non sane cop. Good job fooling dumbasses!

Assuming UK flips mafia, there's no way at all she'd out a scumbuddy like that. Even when we lynch obvscum UK today, it doesn't change the fact that it will still be LyLo, and there's no reason for mafia to want us to get two scum lynches in a row.

[diginova]

I do want screl to claim though, as one of either UK or screl are scum, and we can use the claims to determine which one is more likely. As my vote shows, I'm strongly leaning towards UK, but I want all the information out here.

[diginova]

Sorry for the triple post, but UK, you seem to be acting very rashly, and that's part of the case against you. Maybe if you put up a case against screl and stopped randomly attacking everyone, maybe we'd be more inclined to believe you.

[diginova]

We were debating keeping Twomz alive and tailor an innocent to give lots of WIFOM, but nobody was acting obvtown for Twomz to check his sanity.

[diginova]

EBWOP: Twomz, nice luck D1!

[diginova]

EEBWOP: Some amazing quotes from Night 2 in the QT.

"But since your BPness is one-shot, I would think you'd have a choice as to when to use it. Wait, no that makes no sense." - NS
"Hey, you never know, there might be an advantage to me dying. I can't THINK of one off the top of my head, but I'm sure there is some situation, where the stars align, where I'd want to be NK'd." - UK

[diginova]

It's really easy for mafia to give out cop results period. They know the alignment of everyone.
Now everything would have been amazingly "fun" if only you had claimed your N2 target

[diginova]

JJ, what was it that caused you to mark me as scum?

[diginova]

Thirded.

However, that post restriction was still painful. I got way too many headaches reading his posts.