Mini 1034 - Castlevania Mafia (Game Over)

[Dekes]

Disclaimer: Never heard of castlevania before this game.

Blasphemy!

Vote: Kasuki

Also, you asked where half the people were not two hours after the game was open. Why so impatient?

Regarding UK's question:
I agree with the majority here. I don't see any advantage town might gain here. It would only make it easier for scum in finding fakeclaims.

[Dekes]

I was wondering what you were up to with your little survey, UK.
But to ask a little game theory: Are provided fakeclaims a common thing around here? I've read/skimmed a couple of themed games and I don't think I've ever come across mod-provided fakeclaims.

Now to what I've noticed so far:
- Zwetsch's batshit crazy attention whoring doesn't seem like it would be sensible for scum to enter the game in that manner. Seems like he's trying to set up gambits all over the place to "catch scum" at every opportunity. The Coach Travis slip seems a little far fetched. Bandwagoning is not a scumtell at all and zwet deserved the suspicion, whether intentional or not, doesn't matter. But then again, if some of you say he's always like this, I can't really argue about this, haven't played with him before. Oh yeah, and

UK, you should know that I suck at flavor fakeclaims, and that in every single game I've been in that I don't know the flavor of, I have claimed my real name. You can check, too. I know almost nothing about castlevania, for the record.

Irrelevant
- MPR: Thank you for your insightfulness.
- Agree with LMP here (although he got the order wrong: Zwet said OMGUS first and tans didn't vote for zwet). However, Tans reacted very defensive to the vote by Zwet. And Tans, if you are wary of everyone by default, why did you specifically say you were wary of Zwet after he called you scum?
Right now I approve of this wagon:

Vote: Tanstalas

[Dekes]

Uh, what?

[Dekes]

Because he could've stated what he found so confusing or he could've said nothing at all. But I don't see how a simple "Uh, what?" was helpful in any way.
And that wasn't even really the main point of my post.

[Dekes]

@mod:

I know I'm gonna regret this, but drmyshottyizsik hasn't posted in this thread at all. He announced V/LA in his other games, but he's been active the last couple of days. It's possible he's forgotten about this game.

And now a few quotes:

So...um...basically everyone who votes you is somehow scum, tans?

What? Where did you get that?

Vote Count

tanstalas (3)

- zwetschenwasser, LynchMePls, Dekes

HoS: Zewt

Yes, you are getting the whole hand, all FIVE fingers

Your vote on me as well as Dekes vote on me are both very scummy looking considering the "reason" you are voting for me is because I HoS'd someone who was vote hopping.

Unvote:
Vote: LMP
FoS: Dekes

I, unlike you have given

plenty of reasons

why I am voting for you and FOS'ing Dekes, so please call this OMGUS again

Flailing seems about right.
And like somebody else stated, town and scum can both be lazy, especially early on. McGriddle is a prime example. Am I saying he's town? No, but I've played with him before when he was town. Lazy as hell. It's anti-town, but not scummy.
So is skimming. While it may not be helpful for an open-minded analysis, town can and will skim over posts and misrep in order to strenghten their case against a person.

@Dekes: While I'm at it, how does defensiveness make one more likely to be scum?

Generally? Both can be defensive. If a townie feels they are wagoned unwarrantedly they tend to get defensive as well.
But tanstalas has gotten defensive over one vote. And in my experience scum tend to freak out sooner than town because they have something to hide and more to lose when facing a possbile wagon/lynch.

@MPR
Active lurkiness is noted.

@Katsuki
Are you a he or a she? I want to say a girl, but I messed up pretty bad guessing gender in another game of mine and I just wanna make sure

[Dekes]

Sorry, wall o' text.

Vote Count

tanstalas (4)

- zwetschenwasser, LynchMePls, Dekes, Katsuki

My top 3 picks (in order)
1)LMP
2)Katsuki
3)Dekes

Unvote
Vote: Zwet

Updated.
Do you really believe there are 3 (or even 4) scum on your wagon? You've been nothing but accusing every single person on your wagon and that is flailing. Sure, the Newbie we played together, Beanman was throwing suspicion towards people who were questioning him all the time and he was town, so yeah, you could be bad town. But you're acting like the people are solely on your wagon because you HOS'd Zwet instead of voting him. That is simply not true. Your wagon is still intact because of how you handled the pressure. And you did a lot of suspicious things:

If I get to L-2 or L-1 I will nameclaim which should clear me, however I am hesitant to do that because if you know who I am you will probably be able to figure out my ability which will make me less useful to the town.

Scummy, scummy, scummy. If it will be so obvious what your role is, why not just claim at L-1? Because you haven't made up a good fake role claim yet, am I right?
And you say you will claim at L-2/L-1, yet you nameclaim at L-3 when no one else threatened to vote you. Why so overeager with your claim? This may very well be the first mod-provided fakeclaim I see.
Then you go on and try to clear you name by saying it's a main character. Like UK said, there are many Castlevania (well over 20 with almost as many main characters). I'm betting everyone has gotten a main character.

If you can figure out my ability based on my name do not speculate on it in thread, because if you can figure it out - you know why I do not want scum to know what it is.

Scummy, scummy, scummy. You don't want us to speculate about your role, yet you give away it's an important role practically making you the NK choice number one. Why not just fullclaim at all? (inb4 omg, Dekes is rolefishing) I bet, it's because - like I said - you don't have a proper fake role claim yet. You want us to say "Mh, Rinoa is known for X, maybe tanstalas is a [insert PR here]!" so you can say "Yeah, you got me. See, that's why I didn't want scum to know my role!". Pure speculation on my part but it doesn't seem so far off.

About your so-called solid cases. Here's what you did to accuse the people on your wagon:
- You make up scumtells that are none (being lazy, skimming and tunneling are done by both town and scum) and pass it off as a solid case
- You falsely use terms (parroting in the context of mafia is used for people who make statements that have been brought up by others and trying to pass it off as their own. If I say "Like player X said..." and then go on to state it this is not parroting. This is simply acknowledging a point someone else brought up) and pass it off as a solid case
- You attack people for non-game related things like sleeping habits and writing style and pass it off as a solid case
- You even try to get the mod involved because katsuki told the mod shotty announced V/LA in another thread. So what? Stay to game related things.

@Everyone on my BW

-

When

I get lynched and

if

I flip town who is going to be your next suspect and why?

Fix'd. Sorry, couldn't resist.
Why do you think nobody unvoted after your "claim"? Because four people are tunneling you hard? Or because there are three or four scum on your wagon? No, because nobody's believing you on either your claim or your cases. I know I am and my vote stays.

@UK
Don't just sit back and defend/coach tanstalas. The game is ten pages old and a lot happened, there must be people you are suspicious of.

@MPR, McGriddle
Please get involved. Who are you most of suspicious of at the moment and what do you think of the wagon on tanstalas.

[Dekes]

And this time - Dekes - I do want an answer of who you will be going after tomorrow if I get lynched and when I flip town. Want to know this before you get to have your quickchat with your scum buddies and decide who to go after tomorrow.

So, now I'm definite scum, although last time I checked I was #4 on your scum list? Because I made a case against you? Great stuff.

I will answer to your last post tomorrow and to your question here, too. But it's 2 A.M. over here and I had to made another post first.
Just wanted to get another question out quickly:

@everyone
What do you think of tanstalas rushed L-3 not-in-danger-of-about-to-being-lynched nameclaim plus PR-softclaim?

[Dekes]

And after that you voted Zwet so he surely must've climbed up your list to the top. Correct me if I'm wrong but that would make me #4.

[Dekes]

First of all, tanstalas, in everyone's interest please only respond to the points that you feel are essential to this argument. I already left out some of the points because I don't want to turn this into an (even more of a) chain quoting argument.

I refuse to answer this because I have already answered it in a previous post. If you refuse to read my posts I am not going to repeat myself for your benefit.

Instead of giving a simple yes or no you're making the effort and trying to discredit me for inaccurate reading. Noted.

I find it funny you call it flailing, yet the game we played together when you were on the bubble I could say you were flailing as well, and you were town. So when you do it it is towny, when I do it it is scummy eh?

I was flailing wildly in my last game. I attacked only the townies on my wagon. People back then also thought it was scummy and therefore I got lynched as town. I said flailing can be done by both town and scum, hence why I didn't include it in my case against you.

If I have to ability claim - I have no problem with it, if my BW gets bigger I will, in fact I still have an ace up my sleeve that should pretty much guarantee me being obv-town, however there are some "issues" with it - however I am very valuable to the town, and I will not myself be lynched. Trust me, I will not by lynched today.

If you wanna stay vague, be my guest. That still doesn't explain why you were that hasty in claiming your name and softclaiming a PR when no one asked you to claim or threatened to hammer you. Simply can't see the town motivation behind this.

Again, I said PROTAGONIST - I really wish you would pay more attention - I really hate having to repeat myself. Do you have a main protagonist as your character?

Yes, I do.
And duh, main character and main protagonist are interchangable here, as I don't think anyone will claim Dracula. Additionally, there aren't really any other main characters on the good side. In most of the games it's you alone waltzing through a castle, beating up a lot of baddies until you get to stake Dracula.

I agree - maybe not any of these things individually would me scumtells - however they are tells, and when I get a few on one person it starts to get hard to ignore.

I'm not saying you should ignore them. But you completely disregard the fact that it could be simply town being wrong and instead you're accusing all of your attrackers as being scum based on the reasons above.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p2419606

And I quote from you -

And dammit, tanstalas, for your #356. There are several things I was going to add into my post as well. Now it will be me parroting and buddying and whatnot all over again.

So in that last game we played together - you referred to it as parroting, now it's not? Hello? Contradictory train pulling into the station!

a) I was being sarcastic in that quote of yours
b) Ask around what parroting means. If it's simply every time somebody says that's already been said then there's a hell of a lot parroting going on around here.
c) To clarify this right here and now, I'll give you an example
Example A:
Player A makes a case against Player B. Player A votes Player B.
Player C comes in, takes the key points from Player A's case, paraphrases it and says:"Here, I made a great case against Player B, too. Vote: Player B!"
Example B:
Player A makes a case against Player B. Player A votes Player B.
Player C:"Player A, those are valid points you brought forward, I agree with those. Vote: Player B!"
In my eyes only example A is parroting. I did the latter when I was acknowledging katsuki's point against you. Yet you said I was parroting and pegged me as scum for it.

UK is the most active person in this game...

Not when it comes to scumhunting. She admits so herself. You defending her when not even being addressed. Noted.

Another thing I find interesting. So far this entire game you have had 6 posts. Which at this point in the game consists of 2.7% of total posts. Going back to our first game at the time you got lynched you were at 9.7% of posts. Again you were town that game, I find you doing a lot of stuff differently this game than in the game where you were town.

That must be the most useless argument so far. You are aware, that the activity of the other players directly affects my percentage? And this game is way more active/spammery (namely zwetsch) than the other game. I may not post on every page, but I rather make my posts count. And

that

you can see in all of my games.

And this time - Dekes - I do want an answer of who you will be going after tomorrow if I get lynched and when I flip town.

No.
I will not speculate on relations yet unless I've seen your flip. Especially after you claimed you're sure you're not gonna get lynched.

@UK
#226
There's been two wagons already and opinions and accusations all over the place and yet you insist there's nothing that would warrant further investigation. And to top it off, you're not doing anything to change that. Now if that ain't as anti-town as MPR's and McG's absence (God, I hate inactivity).

#232
To raise their value for the town and avoid their lynch.

I do agree however with tanstalas that I don't like zwetsch's behaviour at all (that's right, I'm agreeing with possible scum here, that his possible scumbuddy could possibly be scum).
I don't know, if he wants to lure out scum with his teasing, but it's way to plump and obvious. I may Iso him later, but what I got from him so far is only distracting and not beneficial to town. He seems to be feeling too safe, being sure, tans will be the lynch of today, occasionally adding fuel to the tans wagon. He could use more pressure:

Unvote; Vote: zwetschenwasser

Pedit:
I should vote McG right now on the spot. "I am unintrigued by anyones statements thus far."? Does it get more non-commital? If I hadn't played with him before and didn't want to apply pressure on zwetsch now, I'd vote for McG for sure.

[Dekes]

@Dekes: The thing is, the wagon analysis only gets REALLY USEFUL once I have flips. So I need flips, or I need someone saying something town wouldn't say. Do you get what I mean now?

I do get it. Problem is, before any flip there will always be Day 1. We don't have flips, we can't analyze wagons properly, so we have to work through other means in the hopes to catch scum, pressure being one of the more effective ones. And you're refusing to take part in this because you haven't seen anyone doing anything that would warrant a vote. If anyone would behave like this we'd have a pretty boring and useless Day 1. We have to apply pressure on people (based on absurd reasons if necessary) and hope somebody slips. Sure, you can observe all of this and let others do that kind of work. But you are part of the game and I think it's anti-town not to engage actively into scumhunting on Day 1.

@zetsch
We get it, you're crazy. It's really funny and original and whatnot. But could you clarify for me, how your doing is beneficial to town? You can start off with that dandy L-1 selfvoting of yours.

Pedit:
I like pressure on lurkers who are active elsewhere on the forum. And to avoid some kind of quickhammer on zwetsch (though I can't really express why I want to avoid it):

Unvote; Vote: MPR

[Dekes]

@Tans
No.
I don't see the point in answering a question that wants me to speculate about what I will do after your flip if you claim you're not gonna get lynched today.
And I don't see the point in you bringing up my meta either. I played one game prior to this one and I got lynched as the town doctor on Day 1. So, regardless of my alignment, don't you think I will do things differently in my next games?

[Dekes]

Okay guys, maybe you're right and tans is simply newbto....

@all - anyone have any comments on my "plan" to have everyone target me tonight so I can see what PR's we have on our side (and the bonus fact that I will inherit those abilities) Like I said before with cop and doc thing. Plus if we have both of those and cop outs himself if we have a doc the doc can protect cop and then N2 we will have 2 investigations (myself and the cop). I'm not sure if I can use more than one ability per night that I inherit, will have to ask the mod about that.

Wait, whaaaaaat???

Most of this has been addressed at but I want to put this in one post.

So, tanstalas, you want all town PRs to target a non confirmed person claiming to be a Role Absorber at the same time, so you not only know all the PRs but you can actually absorb and use them, too? That sounds like a fantastic idea, no?
Let's say you are a Town Role Absorber and your hints at being un-NKable are also true, then this power would be way, way too overpowered for Town. Same goes for Scum Role Absorber. The only party that wouldn't be overpowered with this role would be a lone third party like a - yes, SK!

And you've practically given out your full role claim so why stay vague on things like this:

There is a mechanism in place though that will not make it OP that I do not care to share.

?
Uh-uh. Not buying it.
And why the pseudo mysteriously hinting at being NK immune? It's blatantly obvious that you're trying to scare off mafia with this tactic. And why? Because as a lone SK your survival is of the utmost importance to you. Even more than for a member of a mafia team. That also explains your myriad of OMGUS.

Look at his player list in #296. He's giving every person some sort of scum intent (excpet for VV. Wow, we don't wanna be accused of seeing everyone as scummy now, do we?). Sure he's on the fence on me Katsuki, zwet and me, but all of us have been OMGUS'd before.
So, who wouldn't mind a lynch of anyone? Right, an SK!

Please, guys, don't tell me you're still getting town vibes from him. This guy needs some serious rope. Sure, we have a lot of time left, we can try figuring out scum before deadline, but I want tans lynched by the end of this Day.....unless of course, you think he could kill mafia for us. In that case no one targets tanstalas tonight, unless you're a suicidal townie, then I wouldn't mind

And to please the SK:
I'm looking into CT's iso tomorrow. I have to admit I have skimmed most of his posts so far. One thing that stands out from his latest post. Him calling VV's vote a random bandwagoning vote and thus trying to make it look suspicious is...at the very least just plain wrong.

[Dekes]

@Dekes: Was he this paranoid during your newbie game together? How do you describe Tanstalas' play back then? What was he, Town or scum??

Can't help you here, I'm afraid. He was scum that game but he wasn't under pressure at all during the entire game. Due to failtown he easily coasted to a scum win on Day 3.

Unvote

@mod: V/LA until Monday

V/LA noted

I'll reread and give my thoughts once I'm back.

[Dekes]

Just got back from V/LA. Dead tired. Just a couple of thoughts now, my catch-up post will be up tomorrow.

I may drop the hammer on MPR. The day has been long enough already, including lots of noise. But a couple of wagons have been formed, suspicions have been shared.

Although MPR's analysis of his wagon was pretty much spot-on at the time, his unwillingness to defend himself (except his VT claim) or to give out his suspects since then makes him a valid lynch imo. We'll gain enough info from his flip either way.

[Dekes]

Well that sucked - noone targeted me at all

Shocker!

Am I the only who finds CT suspicious even after his claim?
Why are you surprised you're still alive? There's a dead bodyguard. There's plenty of possibilities why scum didn't kill you:
1) UK protected you and gave his life while doing so
2) You got RB'd, thus being useless while scum could go on killing other folks
3) Scum didn't believe your claim
4) You yourself are a filthy scumbag

CT's trying too hard acting surprised and disappointed that he can't prove his PR today. Not exactly giving me town vibes.

It seems a bit of a stretch to infer that Zwet definitely did something in this situation. If you were blocked, then you were blocked...that doesn't mean your target blocked you. You are heavily inferring that Zwet knew you would investigate him and then specifically blocked you from doing that and that because you were blocked from investigating him specifically then he must be scum, and in reality, if you were blocked, then you would have received that response about anyone you investigated.

? Did I miss something? Where did anybody say that or hint at that?

I'm wondering if UK got killed while protecting someone else or if she was targeted directly. Mh, I'll look at MPR's wagon and see if I can find someone who tried to shift the wagon from CT to MPR before CT claimed (I can't recall the correct chronology right now).

[Dekes]

Meh, I wanted to review this thread over the weekend. But it's been a busy one. I skimmed the thread and came across this little post.
CT and MPR were both at L-2.
After a long, but unconvincing defence from CT (among other things like wishy-washy votes he tried to defend his wagon votes as not being wagoning. Why would you even want to do this? Since when is wagoning bad?) McG puts CT at L-1 and in the very next post katsuki quickly unvotes CT and puts MPR at L-1. Trying to save your buddy with a nice lurker wagon there to put your vote on?

Vote: katsuki

FoS: Coach Travis

I'll look into katsuki's iso, but not before tomorrow.

[Dekes]

Its moot yo. Let the hammer fall.

Why?

If we believe zwet's nameclaim why don't we believe his roleclaim he gave us at the very beginning. He could be a lyncher after all with CT being his target (and I can't believe especially jenni hasn't thought of this yet <- ongoing game). I admit it doesn't make sense in that zwet didn't push for a CT lynch at all on D1 and hinted straight away on D2 that he has info to share with town.
However, after re-reading zwet's iso he keeps saying that he's not suspicious of CT at all. He's suspecting tans, MPR and UK. So, zwet, why did you investigate CT, a claimed tracker over one of your suspects?

I'm still extremely suspicious of CT (and his defence didn't help either). But I'm almost equally suspicious of zwet('s claim).

So, we have a claimed tracker and we have a claimed cop with a guilty on the claimed tracker. Why don't we give them another Night to see how true those claims are. If zwet dies tonight (which is to be expected with a claimed cop and a protective role dead) and flips cop, CT gets lynched tomorrow. If zwet doesn't die he should have another result to share with us. So should CT as a tracker. I think it's best to leave this subject for tomorrow before we lose a PR carelessly.

@VV
I still think tans is a SK, not mafia.

@Katsuki
Like I said I only skimmed the thread. Should've maybe held back with my quick vote, but it's still a post I'll remember if/when we see CT flip.

Since we don't seem to have a vig and tans doesn't want to kill to expose his SK role I'll go ahead and

Unvote; Vote: McG

Yep, trying to revive a wagon on a lurker. Dude needs to talk. Wouldn't be opposed to a tans lynch as well.

[Dekes]

And if CT flips tracker today and zwet's alive tomorrow we still don't know if he's scum.

It's unlikely that they're both alive and w/o result tomorrow so we have a lot more info to figure out the validity of both claims.

[Dekes]

Having only played one game with zwet I can see him being audacious enough to claim his 3rd party role in his very first post (albeit naming a wrong target).
I still can't wrap around my head on why zwet would have any reason to investigate CT last night.

Does anyone have any mod experience with kdub and how likely a lyncher would be in one of his games?

[Dekes]

But he had other suspects all throughtout D1. Why wouldn't he investigate UK, a person he called scum over and over again?

[Dekes]

Lol, you just answered for him on that very question. Of course I wanted to hear the answer from zwet. But that's pretty redundant now.

[Dekes]

Wow, although we had McG and zwet cleared and Katsuki confirmed as scum in the Dead QT I still managed to get 2/2 wrong. That is...very disappointing.
In my defense I did have VV down as scum after his first D3 post which looked a lot like scum presenting all important infos you needed to know on D3 in a short manner to look like a good townie. But he got better/others got worse as the day progressed.

But never, ever would've thought LMP was scum. Well done.

SpyreX did take strong stances, unfortunately they were mostly wrong stances. Why were you so bent on lynching the claimed tracker. It would be the best option to wait another night to verify both CT's and zwet's claims. That eventually led to the belief zwet was scum (I probably would've gone after him, too, but I wouldn't have ruled out the possibility of him being town). The CT wagon in general was crap. Has nobody seen a VI claim cop before? God, I'm sure we've all played with Drmyshottizsik before or at least read games involving him.

I just read the dead topic - man, Dekes was still tunneling on me even after death

Yeah, so I did, lol. Feels like a personal vendetta after you won that Newbie 988 fiasco

But come on, why didn't you fully claim your role. Now that I see it was a one-shot-per-ability role it makes it much, much more believable.
However, with all your vagueness and your accusations against every player that attacked you you just screamed "Welp, my role is so powerful, I'm too important for town. I need to survive!" which led to why everybody was thinking you were SK.

And you can't really give yourself credit for citing a post where you said LMP and Katsuki were scum. At that point you were just voting and FoSing everyone who was accusing you. And instead of voting one of them you voted the next person attacking you who happened to be a townie

Definitely an awesome job by the mods. Enjoyed this game, absolutely loved the flavor, they were always around for frequent vote counts and activity checks and the setup was great, too. In hindsight a cop instead of a hider may have been the better choice. Jenni did a great job between not getting lynched and not being considered a NK. But instead of having a guilty and an innocent on D3 we had a dead hider. This could've delayed the town loss for another day or two. But that's not what cost the town the win. In the end the town was simply too weak with zwet, MPR and McG. We concentrated too much on the lurkers on D1 and zwet's gambit (if you can even call it that) on D2 sealed the scum win. Also, scum weren't that bad either in taking advantage of town's weakness.

[Dekes]

EBWOP: I'd love to see that Mafia QT, too. Curious as to how badly you were laughing your asses off about zwet's claim