Mini 247 - Zodiac Mafia - GAME OVER!

[Phoebus]

Is anybody up for some role speculation?
Scummy as it may sound, it could be of use to us.

Libra is dead.
Virgo = innocent

The twins must be masons or we'd not have 12 players.
Cancer/Scorpio/Taurus = killers of some sort? Perhaps Leo along with them? He could be blocker/strong townie.
Aquarius = healer (water)
Sagi can also be killer.
Aries = blocker??townie??
Capricorn = copricorn?

For what it's worth, this were the lines along which I was thinking when I was contemplating a zodiac mafia.

[Phoebus]

Yosarian...again!
Share?

[Phoebus]

I'll put out a little more scum scent.
Given that we did begin on day, without throwing numbers at me, can someone explain why a no lynch would not be feasible? For I'm sure, the minute I suggest it, I'll have a pack of wolves baying for my blood.

Rather than bandwagon/claim, expose roles, wait for a mistake that might not happen, we could just start with a regular situation by no lynching and going to night. There's only so much speculation we can do about this setup...

[Phoebus]

No night one. No.
More the reason for no lynch.

I wouldn't vote Fuldu yet but I see it's slightly interesting that he'd want to find out what a kill looks like but would rather go through the whole rigmarole of a information-less and therefore, potentially damaging day one.

Of course, now I'm sure to have numbers thrown at me.

[Phoebus]

*throws 01101110011101010110110101100010011001010111001001110011 at Phoebus!"

*smacks Tyfo around the head with a large dictionary*

FOS Phoebus for suggesting no lynch. I have never seen a game situation outside of late game where no lynch has been a good action for the town.

You get the eyeroll.
How many times have I heard that drivel spewn about when someone mentions no lynch?


For the most part, I refuse to have to do anything much with a lynch today, though I

will

finish someone off if/when it gets painful.
Don't expect much content from me unless something strikes me as really scummy.

I'm also away till the 9th.

[Phoebus]

So Tyfo is definately innocent? That role sounds sucky, it would make him a huge mafia target.

Come now, what?
I'd think more along the lines of - a very good choice for a doctor.
How can you possibly overlook that?
This leaves the scum to decide whether they want to go cop hunting and leave doc alone, where he could end up in end game with the innocent or go doc hunting giving cop more choices. That's a dillemma, I'd rather they have...

vote: GreenLiquid

Hmm, so you WILL finish people off? Sounds like;

1. You are scum, and just accidently revealed yourself.
2. You are townie, and trying to get lynched.
3. You are aggresive townie, and trying to get lynched.

If you weren't mod confirmed, I'd vote you.

1. No.
2. No.
3. Yes and no.

Go meta game. Be my guest.

However, coming to Bifrost...

unvote: GreenLiquid

vote: Bifrost

The starting in day and revealing of an innocent this early on by the mod seems pointing towards either the mafia having very powerful abilities or simply a large mafia. I'm inclined to believe the powerful ability idea, after all this is the Zodiac mafia. One would think that these constellations have more power than mortal scum. I think the same goes for protown roles, though.

A second "random" vote.
Musing about constellations being powerful.
Looking at all sides of the situation, with a "though" added for spice?
Sublimate much?

Oh and if I die this night, Nanook killed me.
Go look at Stewie's mini, Kerplunk's mini among others. Nanook kills me! {;))

and armlx,
I'm flattered about the "too good" comment. I beg to differ with that.
And also, do you know why the no lynch is never actively discussed? Because some gods, a long time ago decided it was bad and not it so strongly censured that mere mention of it gets people FoSed if not voted.
It's a meme and no one's got balls to try it.
*shrug*

I said I woudn't post unless I had matter to respond to.
I do here.

Actually, I'd vote either Bifrost or armlx but seeing as he's already on 3 votes, I'll desist. And no, I don't FoS but now you know my List.

[Phoebus]

It would prolly be in every one's best interests not to be a prick about it though...
Leave that to me.

[Phoebus]

Bifrost,
From my experience, and I've been scum a good number of times,

speculation

is one of the most used tactics by scum to appear pro town. Look at at all sides of the situation - try and seem reasonable...especially when you know who's evil and who's not. That's what scum do.
Townies, on the other hand, will be suspicious of everyone until proven innocent and know only that they are good and that they win with the good. They look at it from one perspective and no other.

Therefore, with you

speculating

, my scumdar was set off.
Dranko was frank about his pressure vote.
Why would you put on a "random" vote, especially when you're aware of the norms prevailing in this community? It's same as the case of the no lynch - whoever does it/suggests it, is suspected. Only, no lynch is such taboo that no one does it seriously. A second random vote might just be brushed under the carpet under this logic, which you stated:

Some people claim that it'll allow scum to "speedlynch" people, but that would be a dead giveaway, and thus be even better for town if scum did do that.

But the very nature of that logic makes it an effective gambit. Plus, it's rare, so more easily noticeable.
Everyone knows random votes are without reason backing them and just thrown around. A second vote is on its way of being a pressure vote and a bandwagon. If it's a pressure/bandwagon vote, call it that. Votes beyond an initial one thrown out cannot be random because they have consequences - a speed lynch is not (necessarily) one of them.

Nanook - you always kill me the second night anyway. You let me speak once and then off me. Scumbag.

[Phoebus]

Green Liquid -
Aureal hit it on the head in the preceding post.
I speculated more about the setup in general - in a sense of having info ready right away in case of a mass claim. It was an overview.
It's when people speculate more specifically about strengths of various sides and then precipitate into (which has not yet happened here) discussions of possible scenarios, that I find scummy, that I have done as scum.


Aureal -
Please tell me exactly where I said that being a townie entailed wearing a dunce cap?
It's almost exactly the opposite. I find myself most refreshed and stimulated when townie in a mini. That's why I play these more. However, as a townie, I will never speculate early on, in public, in case I'm too close to the truth and someone bumps me off. That does the town no good and also curtails my enjoyment of the game.
In my experience, a plain townie will only be really very vocal about setups, scenarios and situations after a few deaths and days, when their suspicions have crystalised and they have a reasonable judgement or logic (they feel) behind their arguments. Not early on in the game.
Early on in the game, the only people who would want to speculate would be scum, so that they appear useful and avoid suspicion/investigation.
Again, when I said townies no nothing but their own innocence, do you disagree? They might think (and may be right. On the other hand, they might not) they know someone is innocent but that is conjecture/deduction unless a cop or death confirms that. Those comments were also more specific to the current scenario - day one.
The only people with concrete information on day one are scum. Even cops can't be sure about their sanities. Lacking a night one, that's moot here, for the moment.
Then, there are tells which scum can pick up by speculating. It's a kind of sophisticated fishing early on. So yeah.

Oh and...

"if I was <person> and I was scum, would what I'm doing make sense? If I was a townie? If I was <role>?"

I'm assuming you're actually talking about having a comprehensive list of a person's tells when they are scum and when they are not.
Do you have that?
I don't have to put myself in anyone else's shoes when I'm townie. I know what's good and anything that makes sense along those lines is good. It's more about seeming to be committed to the same cause than trying to figure out whether certain actions would make sense to you as scum. And they would not be called tells if certain behaviours were not similar across the board, would they?

armlx -
Hypocrisy what now?

[Phoebus]

Look, if you want to nitpick and harp on word usage, please be my guest.
It does nothing for my impression of you as trying to grasp on to every little thing.
The only reason I'm still voting Bifrost is because I hold my argument about the nature of speculation and who does it.

[Phoebus]

*sigh*
Would it be possible to get a reason for the replacement?
Was there one provided?
I was in a game not too long ago where a mafioso asked to be replaced while playing elsewhere just because they couldn't handle pressure directed at them.
Not like Bifrost is under any real pressure here but ruling out that possibility would be nice.

[Phoebus]

Check about bifrost.

Nanook - the only game in recent memory I remember pulling out of, is still in progress. I did give the mods a reason for pulling out.
Cite other examples? My memory fails me. I've never pulled out of games without good reason and being under pressure as scum is not a good reason.

And I think you're a pretty useless townie if you actually play the way you described

Wow. Talk about being offensive...
If you could bother to try and make sense or ask for clarifications where it doesn't make sense, maybe your opinion might be more concrete.

You're being purely empirical by what you regard as a contribution. Performance is not an action, performance is the effort put into getting a result. This includes mental, unobservable effort. So, if lurking under the radar allows you to do mental effort, draw conclusions and crystalise your opinion and lets you survive to boot, I think that's a big payoff in the end when you are actually alive to put your cards on the table.
And you mention -

You don't want to contribute useful info to the town early on because it might get you killed?

With regard to this quote and focussing on townies,
Define "useful information"
Define "early on"

If "early on" is day one, what "useful information" does a townie have other than knowledge of their own innocence?
What "useful" information does a townie have on day two, barring the receipt of a one shot investigation, other than their suspicions which might need another day of discussion to crysalise? However, a townie (as I play the role) will potentially be more active on day two if he's not feeling all out at sea. The potential danger with being overly vocal is, unknowingly being too close to the truth which can make scum feel the heat. However, if that townie dies the next day, the death of "just a townie" won't really be looked into all that closely.

So, the way I see a townie playing effectively (and I have, previously) is to observe, lay low enough not to be called on lurking but not be overly aggressive that scum feel the heat. This tactic does not call for speculation which involves actively and verbally looking at all sides of the scenario. Most of this is done in a townie's head or in their notes, if they keep any. The people who do this actively are usually trying to appear useful, for they fear they might be seen as harmful due to lurking or other associations. I have also done

this

previously. Whether I am a good player or not, I have been around the block a few times and if you want to call

this

experience "crap" or "useless" or generally ignore it, that's your prerogative.
I will stand by what I think I know and believe and continue to follow it and do my best to help anyone follow my line of reasoning.

[Phoebus]

Oh, and to be amply clear in case we're on parallel tracks, heading in opposite directions, by townie, I mean a person who gets to vote to throw scum out of his beloved town and sleeps, perhaps uneasily, at night, doing nothing else.

Vanilla, anyone?

[Phoebus]

I don't really at all agree with that stratagy. First of all, the mafia WILL kill one good guy every night, barring a stroke of luck with a pro-town power role, so you shouldn't really worry on trying to make sure it's not you, especally if you don't have a power role, becuase if it's not you it'll be someone else.

That's your opinion and it's not entirely wrong.

Secondly, if all good guys play like that, not sharing their speculations and suspicions, the game won't go anywhere and all early lynches will be controlled by the scum.

But they don't, do they? Why do you seem to think of everything said here as gospel?
I never meant my messages to be like that. I play that way, it's been effective. You disagree? Good. You have another (more) effective way? Better.

If you've got a suspicion, explain it; other people might agree, they might go back and take another look at the person you're suspicious of, and either you might convince then, or they might convince you that you were wrong. Either way, it helps the town generate information. Besides, if you start a bandwagon, you might be right, or you might be wrong. If you follow someone else's bandwagon, they might be right, they might be wrong, or they might be scum. Your odds are better if you take the lead and follow your own nose.

Am I not explaining my suspicion?
Am I not trying to explain to people my basis for suspicion?
Am I not getting side tracked by people focussing more on method rather than my suspicion?

Remember, information can be useful to the scum, but the scum starts the game with all the information they need to win. The town starts the game with no information, and generating information is the only way for the town to win. If you're not doing that from the very start of the game, you're not helping the town.

Right, all the information to win? No.
Only who's good and bad. There's still work to be done picking out the danger roles.

Finally, it's pointless to not share your suspicions because you're afraid of getting killed. After all, if you get killed before you've shared your suspicions, it really hurts the town; if you share your suspicions and then get killed, townies can look back later at what you said, and give it a little more weight now that they know you were a good guy.

A valid point.
Am I not trying to do that now?

[Phoebus]

Didn't preview, but thanks Nox!
It was enough for that it was mentioned by others. I don't need proof

[Phoebus]

He starts with a no lynch

Wha? Did I vote for that? I suggested it.
Start with it? At the same time, I'd said I wouldn't say much unless something hit me, because I detest day one without night. A very many of the same tired conversations take place in such situations. Today has been no exception.

then builds a case for him to contribute nothing to the game.

Right, of course I'm going to sit on my hands the

whole

game and do nothing.
I'm doing a good job right now, aren't I? No one's talking about anything at all. I never suggested anything at all. I never gave reason for the way I think. Do I even think?

He jumps on someone for being replaced.

Cardinal sin!
I gave no reason at all. I voted for them after they asked to be replaced.

He tries to make us suspicious of those making logic decisions.

Er...please show me any "logic" and "decisions" here. I must be immune to them...

I feel he has been leading us into inactivity

Uh?? ^n

wrong choices

Uh...choices? leading? wrong? bandwagon? armlx? voting? darquiel? ?????

unvote: darquiel ; vote: armlx

[Phoebus]

Try some real content??
This is half-assed.

Speculates.

Either you're a dunce or you have not been reading my explanations or you are deliberately harping on semantics. Which?
Did you see the line I had at the end of my

very first

of

16

posts?

For what it's worth, this were the lines along which I was thinking when I was contemplating a zodiac mafia.

Rather than bandwagon/claim, expose roles, wait for a mistake that might not happen, we could just start with a regular situation by no lynching and going to night. There's

only so much speculation we can do about this setup...

No lynch, says theres no speculation we can do.

(emphasis mine)

Misrepresent much? This isn't even semantics here. No vs. only so much = not much. You tell me.
Did I vote no lynch? I've already told you my thoughts about the meme. You're definitely one of the three I mentioned above.

More or less declares he will be lurking.

Have you done a "view all posts by"? Are you high?
With this post, I have 16 of 69 which is nearly 25%. Are you quite alright?

Wrong arguements used to go against speculation (which he did before). If he is saying speculation is scummy and he speculates, he is scum.

This is the last time I will be addressing this. Moreso with you.
Look at the nature of speculation. Broad overview with a neutral view vs. a more in-depth view, bordering on fishing. I

do not

deny I speculated but look at what/how I speculated.

I also disagree with the second point. As a townie I often look at how the mafia see things and use that point of view to find similar points of view and catch scum.

Right. Are you vocal about it? Did you see the post about performance being work done in notes/mentally?

I could have sworn somewhere I saw a post of his about how people making logical decisions are most likely scum D1 as they have the most info, but I can find it. The more I read his posts the more contradictions I see and the more reason there is to vote for him.

Use "view all posts by" and a search function. It's not difficult.
The more and more you avoid addressing stuff in my current posts and questions I directly put to you, and focus on older posts, the more reason I see to leave my vote on you.

[Phoebus]

Can we have a prod for Nanook please?

[Phoebus]

Aureal, you've made no real attempt to say why I'm scummy.

Yosarian, care to elaborate?

unvote: armlx

currently.
Share the sun god references? What's that got to do with Leo?

[Phoebus]

Requesting prods/replacements for Nanook and Captain Duct Tape.
I know it's just recently dawned but both these people have been non-productive all of yesterday.

Yosarian, your first post mentioned a hint at there being a large mafia. Care to share? From what it seems, we've lost a cop and a blocker. Whatever information we can get on this game is very valuable.

[Phoebus]

Nanook is also MIA.
I'm paranoid after the latest Werewolves mafia.

Reveal what you can.

because Nanook can't exactally manipulate the town while I'm watching him, I know he's scum, and he knows I know he's scum; and meanwhile, I was thinking that I could hopefully help the town find scum, without having to worry about looking scummy myself because, hey, if I get lynched, no great loss right?

Huh?
What happens if we lynch him now? You die right away? Don't think so. Use your ability tonight before you die.

[Phoebus]

I'd rather hear more from the others.
This sounds like a plan designed to lead the town by the nose. I don't like it.
Nanook isn't around to give a rebuttal. You could very well be scum yourself and trying to take advantage of his inactivity to force a situation which is useful for the mafia vote-wise.
You say you can't do anything tonight if the wolf is lynched. Tell us what it is that you do. We'd still be trading one for one. Scum might not kill you if they'd loose nanook as well.
In all, this sounds very much like hooey.
What if we lynch you instead? That means Nanook would die tonight. That way, we can be sure you're not lying.

I also don't like how you and armlx are in conversation and playing tag team here.

Come on everyone else, speak up.

[Phoebus]

true dat ^^
And you invite half the party in and then talk about armlx using the vig kill?

[Phoebus]

Actually, inviting someone would prevent them from killing. Shouldn't it also prevent them from being killed? It *is* a party after all. Lots of witnesses...
A lot of things are off about this.

Still waiting on CDT and Nanook to pipe up.

[Phoebus]

I believe Nanook is very busy with RL stuff. We can't keep on like this without input from the accused. Please replace him.

[Phoebus]

as I will undoubtably be killed by armlx tonight.

Why is that inevitable? Can you not make a case against your sibling then?
Unless both are mafia and this is a very roundabout ruse. This seems unlikely if they are indeed traditional siblings because we'd lynch one at some point of time.

Cogito Ergo Sum makes no mention of a power. Yosarian claims a power which seems off to me. Half the town invited? Killers can't function but others might?

Direct talk between players (Yos and armlx) about tonight's plans. I don't like it at all. It's a jeep tell.

Here's something. We've got at least two scum out of these three here.

I am Scorpio. I am a vigilante who has connections.
I get to know if and what actions I'm targetted with, in addition to my vig abilties.

armlx has claimed Leo - jack of all trades. He claimed he targetted me last night with an investigation and got me innocent. I

was targetted

last night indeed but

not

by

Leo, but by Capricorn

and they got me innocent. We don't need to know who Capricorn is right now but they can confirm this if scum try to spin this on me.

vote: armlx

Do you want to claim that you're actually Capricorn now?
If you do, I still say LYNCH ALL LIARS

armlx lies.

Yosarian claims an obscure power and asks for the siblings to be allowed to live for a couple of days. This is the

same

thing Pooky did in Flay's Werewolves mafia and he took his sibling through to the end, winning the game. He was scum.

Yosarian and armlx talk and decide on plans with a seemingly one-to-one conversation.

armlx's play yesterday was questionable, to say the least.

Q.E.D.

I will be killing Yosarian tonight, unless the arsonist is antagonistic towards the town. Somehow, the sun god thing - methinx armlx might be our arsonist. In any case, when darquiel's house was gutted, she could still perform her action that night. Don't care if I'm blocked the next night.

[Phoebus]

Oh, and Phoebus, how do you plan on determining whether the arsonist is antagonistic towards the town before tonight?

I don't really care. If they strike again, especially at my place or at a pro town place, we'll know. In any case, I won't be blocked tonight. I will be blocked night 4.
That's what happened to darquiel.

[Phoebus]

Hear what?
He's been around. He knows he was licked.

His inane attempts at offence against me yesterday coupled with this withdrawal makes my case all the more clear.

[Phoebus]

Whom did you invite?

Lack of kill, credence to social butterfly claim?
If you're mafia, claiming a similar role, you simply do not kill. It's not that difficult to pretend.

[Phoebus]

CES - You're not dead because you were not my target.
Morever, I was also blocked by a loquacious person.

I still don't buy Yosarian's shenanigans.
I've been burnt by Pooky in Werewolves doing exactly this. By Yosarian's claims, he would've died immediately at nightfall, had we lynched nanook yesterday. By that same logic, CES should die at nightfall if we lynch Yosarian today.
I don't like Yosarian's play. He was my target last night.

My take for scum are Yosarian and Aureal

(unless she's utterly clueless) with CES as a possible dash of spice, given that Yos said mafia might have a larger complement. It is possible both twins are evil and this was balanced by the suicide mechanic.

vote: yosarian

He was my target for last night.
If the blocker is pro town, you're better off going after yosarian or aureal last night.
I find this unlikely since they blocked me last night.

Can we please kick out Captain Duct Tape?

Darquiel, share your info on Dranko. In any case, Dranko's been giving me a town vibe. Props to him if he's scum. I know darquiel is not our regular cop since she ought to have been blocked last night. It might be prudent for Copricorn to come forward and confirm if they got anyone other than Dranko & darquiel as innocent.
Unless, it is Dranko himself, in which case, he could still confirm whoever he targetted last night.

I wish Tyfo would speak up more. Being given a clean chit need not mean he gets a license to lurk. Bamboo at this time, just seems lost to me.

The gist of that post is: I think Yosarian is scum. Even if he is not, his twin has to be. Given the mechanic described by the pair, Yos should not be averse to taking a hit for the town's cause. Vote yosarian.

[Phoebus]

Have you been reading? He did not invite me.

[Phoebus]

Replace replace replace!
He's been gone long enough.

Tyfo come and finish this off!

[Phoebus]

Before the mod locks this, is there any reason I shouldn't be killing you tonight Aureal?

[Phoebus]

What's the situation on Captain Duct Tape?

darq...what do you have on Dranko?
Who's Copricorn?

[Phoebus]

Have you been paying attention?
I've been expressly told that I've been investigated by capricorn.
I also know something of last night.

Who are you Bamboo?
Think it's time to lay all cards on the table and knock this one out of the park.
I did in Aureal last night.

Captain Duct Tape needs prodding/replacing/mod killing. He's had all of ONE post in four days. Bamboo has been flying under the radar. Well, so has darquiel but something she said makes me think she's ok. So I think we need Bamboo to claim.
CDT might be benign in his inactivity for now.

How about this for claiming order?
Bamboo
darq
Dranko

mod: I would like to request that you keep darq on her toes through prodding. She has a tendency to lurk but the game could end today, so we need max participation...

[Phoebus]

Not quite an ability claim but you want to add some flavour to that?
I think we all got flavour

[Phoebus]

Bamboomancer...are you serious?
It's like five alive, 3 to lynch. There's 2+1 scum dead, a chance to finish this off here and you're saying don't "railroad me?"

I rarely say this but, wtf?

Can it be made clear to Dranko that the game has re-started please?

[Phoebus]

that's ok. there's no need for you to be dead.
we can win this without you definitely needing to die.

And I appreciate what you did

darquiel next?
I see her signed in to IM.
She needs to post.
Was dranko prodded yet?
Where's Tyfo?

[Phoebus]

Welcome back then!
Hope all is well!

*chants for darquiel*

[Phoebus]

I'm away till Boxing Day
Have a merry xmas

[Phoebus]

Replace darquiel. Please. I beg.

[Phoebus]

She indicated she had info on Dranko. We can't just stall like this

vote: Tyfo II

CDT was too silent. I don't like the nature of Tyfo II's posts. A marked difference from his earlier avatar.
Dranko, you might as well share who you are/what you know.

[Phoebus]

Nox, I can't help but be a little snippy. I understand this is christmas time but it's all been stewing forever. darquiel's not been inactive just around christmas, ya know.

Share info my friend. Are you saying you're Capricorn? I notice you did not mention that sign in your analysis. Care to share your results?

[Phoebus]

Shining bright (7/12)

(italicized = confirmed)

Bifrost

darquiel

- Aquarius

CaptainDuctTape

Tyfo II

- Pisces

Bamboomancer

- Cancer

Phoebus

- Scorpio

Dranko20

- Capricorn

Faded stars (5/12)

GreenLiquid

(

Town

/

Taurus

Fuldu

(

Town

/

Sagittarius

armlx

(

Mafia

/

Leo

Yosarian2

(

Town

/

Gemini I

NanookTheWolf

Cogito Ergo Sum

(

Mafia

/

Gemini II

Tyfo I

(

Town

/

Virgo

Aureal

(

SK

/

Aries

)

That's for easy comparison.
I believe Bamboo. I believe Dranko. The only way Mafia win this is if Dranko is a scum investigator. That's not a stretch given they had a blocker. However, I doubt it. In case he is evil, Dranko almost deserves to win. He's given off a strong pro town vibe this game.
darquiel mentioned in passing that she had "good" info on him. A website I looked the zodiac up on says Capricorn is patient and careful and ergo, Copricorn is not a stretch. Actually I

know

he is Copricorn. I just do not know his alignment. But I will put some faith into this intuition.

The website also said Pisces are weak and easily led. We've had a GF, we've had a scum blocker. I think it screams for a goon. Easily led, anyone?

confirm vote: Tyfo II

[Phoebus]

I'm Scorpio. Vig with connections. I get to know what, if any, actions were performed on me.
Night 1, before we lynched armlx, I was told I was pinged by Capricorn.
Last night, someone babysat me.
Ergo I believe Dranko and Bamboo.
darquiel also mentioned breaking in. She said she had "good"s on Dranko.

Pisces are weak and easily led.
Open and shut.

Just share Sotty. Aureal is dead anyway. We can only confirm what darq had on Dranko.

[Phoebus]

Bump

[Phoebus]

That's two votes on Tyfo

Sotty, Tyfo, Dranko not voting.

one more vote seals it.

[Phoebus]

With a blocker and potential role cop, the only bad luck you had was me being told I got investigated.
That tilted it in our favour. Had I just been told I was investigated, I would've believed him...I think. He was just being too pig headed though. IMO.

[Phoebus]

Oh and ofcourse, thanks to Nox!
After receiving the role name of the investigator, I was concerned about game balance but now I think it was fine...

[Phoebus]

Peaches and sour cream! !