Mini 1034 - Castlevania Mafia (Game Over)

[Coach Travis]

Vote:LynchMepls

For playing a crucial role in catching me in my first game as scum. Though I also have no problem with the people voting for Shotty, since his craziness left me all alone.

[Coach Travis]

Sorry, I must have missed it when I read through. Anyway, let's see...

Oh, so, I've seen people try to get cute lately with really really really softclaims. So, for the lulz, I wonder what everyone thinks about claiming your game of origin?

I'll state right now that I'm actually against such an idea. I want to get a bead on other people's theory standing.

Well, I do in fact know which game/games I come from, but I'm the type of player who only ever claims if it's absolutely necessary, and since I really don't consider the game you come from to be important, I'd likely just full claim. I don't really care if anyone else claims their game, though I do prefer full claims.

[Coach Travis]

unvote
Vote: Coach Travis

Vote:LynchMepls For playing a crucial role in catching me in my first game as scum.

Are you worried about him catching you in this game?

Nope, I was merely disappointed about that one game, so basing my joke vote on it seemed like a good way to blow off some steam(it ended yesterday, so it's not like I'm bringing back a long held grudge or anything).

Anyway, I agree that the zwet looks scummy right now, the whole thing just gave me a weird unsettling feeling, and since there's nothing else to go off of right now,

unvote

,

Vote:zwetschenwasser

[Coach Travis]

Giving you a second vote is hardly bandwagoning, and either way it's at least as likely for town to bandwagon as it is for scum. The fact you're already so worried about getting lynched you're resorting to an OMGUS vote makes you look worse than you did before.

[Coach Travis]

@Mod

Sorry, due to computer problems I will be V/LA for a couple days. If it gets to be too long replace me, but hopefully I'll be back soon.

V/LA acknowledged.

[Coach Travis]

Alright, for now I'm being allowed to use another computer, though I have to share it and can't post at night, so I'll be less active than I'd prefer, but I'll still be playing. Anyway, time for my catch up post.

About zwet:I've actually never seen day 1 fakeclaims like that before this game, so the whole thing just me a strange feeling, which I mentioned. Though reading more posts about it I can see how I overreacted a bit, and it's not a scum tell, so I won't just judge him on that. I do him find him scum though, because the vote hopping is pretty ridiculous, the fakeclaim came when the game was getting a bit more serious so it was a distraction, and both him and Tans looked bad in their exchange:Tans for being over defensive like crazy, but not voting him, plus the HoS was crazy just like LMP said, and zwet for saying OMGUS when it wasn't even that, because it wasn't a vote, just Tans disagreeing. Plus, I agree that nothing zwet's done has benefited the town so far. I actually think they could be scumbuddies distancing, and either way, I think it's likely one of them is scum. Right now I think I'll leave vote on zwet, because I find them equally scummy, so there's no need to change it.

But to ask a little game theory: Are provided fakeclaims a common thing around here? I've read/skimmed a couple of themed games and I don't think I've ever come across mod-provided fakeclaims.

I don't think they're common, but they're a possibility, and I know this for a fact:In the aforementioned Ghostbusters game, I was scum and the mod specifically gave us three characters who weren't in the game, that we could use as fakeclaims. So yeah, that could be a possibility for this game as well.

Coach Travis: Why are full claims better in such an early situation? Do you understand the (slight) benefits of locking claims vaguely as opposed to explicitly?

I don't think full claims are better early in the game. In fact, I don't like claims early in the game, because a townie making a fullclaim is just giving the mafia a target, while fakeclaims and soft claims are just pointless and distracting. What I do think is that once it's time to make a claim, full claims are better, because otheriwse it just feels like I'm neing teased with half the story and not the whole thing. Basically, I don't like claims to be used until necessary, but once they're used, I prefer full claims.

On the topic of no-lynches though, what are your gyncuys opinion on a no-lynch? Since I asked the question I will answer it as well. I believe that a no-lynch can be a good strategy later in the game, however D1 town should ALWAYS get a lynch, even if it ends up being a mislynch as we can gain valuable information from whatever the person flipped, who was pushing hard for the lynch, etc.

No-lynching is just plain bad, because lynching is the town's main weapon, so to waste it is to just give the mafia a free day to not worry. Basically, no-lynching means you have no chance of catching mafia, where lynching means you at least have a slight chance, so we may just have to smart with our lynches, make sure we're confident we're catching scum. Either way, not lynching is not an option.

@everyone

, what alignment is most likely to not pay attention to detail in posts

Townie, because mafia need to pay attention to everything they say, to make sure they don't do something stupid to get caught, so they're focus is a bit more defensive, where townies are more focused catching scum, so they tend not to worry as much about defense.

@everyone

-Can you honestly say that you get a town vibe from either of these people?

Not from zwet, no, but I actually like LMP for the most part. Aside from some mistakes in his recap, I think his points so far have been very good, and I definitely feel he's explaining himself well enough. You just don't like him because he's voting for you.

For now, I'll say zwet and Tans are my top suspects, LMP and UK( mostly because I think her questions have been good, and I feel she's given a lot content and has been helpful so far) are getting town reads, and I'm not sure about anyone else right now:I need to go through again later, because with this post I was so focused on catching up, I couldn't possibly notice everything.

[Coach Travis]

Reading through everything since my last post, I feel I should update my thoughts on Tanstalas:The thing is, I myself have been caught flailing around from both sides, so it's not really a scum or town tell, more just a null thing people do when frustrated that the game is not going their way. So I can't just easily decide one way or another on him. However, right now my gut on him is that he is town, because reading through his frustrations seem genuine to me, and even though his play has been very sloppy, I know by experience when I was flailing as town I was still at least making efforts at catching scum, like he is, while as scum I was like 95% defensive the entire time, only attacking when it was obvious I could cause a mislynch. So going by that, I'm not ready to hop on this wagon, and am willing to give him a chance right now.

I also agree with UK that simply voting a flailing player isn't scummy, and right now I have no problems with Kat and LMP. I do still find zwet scummy, however, so for now I'm still fine leaving vote on him. I feel out of the major wagons right now, he's scummier, while Tans is just sloppy.

[Coach Travis]

However, right now my gut on him is that he is town, because reading through his frustrations seem genuine to me,

Is this completely by gut, or is there some reason you can point to in this particular instance that is town-flailing as opposed to scum-flailing?

I know others have talked about this by now(curse my lack of computer time!), but mentally going back through my two games where I was flailing and comparing them to Tans, he's closer to the town one because he's at least trying to help the town in any way he thinks he can, he just doesn't seem to be very good at it. So no, it wasn't totally by gut, a lot of it is out of experience, because I know as newb town when I flailed around I looked equally clueless, yet kept helping attempt to catch scum, where as flailing scum I'd lurk until I had a chance to vote to blend in with town in a bandwagon. Basically, he seems more to me like a frustrated townie than a scum, and just reading his posts I feel the frustrations of a townie stuck in a wagon desperately trying to get out of it, but not really knowing how to make good arguments. Basically, there's a chance he is fact just a sloppy scum, but right now I don't feel that way and think zwet would be the much better lynch, because he seems more in control of himself, and looks like he's deliberately playing scummy, which I don't like.

I also agree about lurking being a big problem, and if I wasn't so convinced zwet was scum, I'd consider voting MPR as well, just because he needs to contribute something soon. In other news, I'm liking Dekes so far, so there's someone else I could add to my list of town reads. Right now my only strong scum read is zwet, but I'm not liking the inaction from MPR, and anyone I haven't mentioned could potentially be scum, but I still haven't had enough time to look into them. I will, when I have the time, which may not be for a while, as I'm now sick, to make things even worse.

[Coach Travis]

I'm mostly not liking how you're playing so far, answering everything so vaguely, not giving a lot of information, I think only scum would play like that. Especially since you seem to be experienced, so it's not like you have an excuse to play that way. And your constant use of "irrelevant" and the like is getting annoying. Basically, to me it just seems like you're doing everything you can to avoid contributing a whole lot, while Tans is at least making an effort, he's just not doing a very good job of it.

[Coach Travis]

Also, you're willingness to vote yourself is just ridiculous, and the last time I saw someone do that it was an insane scum. Obviously, that's a minor thing, but still...

[Coach Travis]

Interesting roleclaim, I'll believe it because it fits into everything I've felt reading through the game so far, that Tans is simply overwhelmed, trying to help the town in his own way, so I could see that being the case if he has this big power role we don't want to lose.

And yeah, I get that zwet may be similar in his other games, but just in general the way he comes off I'm not liking at all, and with that type of player I'd always prefer to have them lynched because even if he's town I'm not finding him terribly helpful, and so far he's done nothing to make me think he's town. I've never got the point of playing mafia if you're going to be that deliberately unhelpful. MPR's fishing is getting ridiculous though, so I'm also suspicious of him.

[Coach Travis]

I don't like VV's vote on me at all, I think we're passed the point of random bandwagons already, so just doing that type of vote on me is pointless, and almost seems similar to what I was accused of in the first place(blending in, not really adding anything). I haven't seen much from him aside from that, so right now he's not getting a positive read. Not because he voted me, but because the vote was pointless, offering no reason at all.

Speaking of which.... zwet doing it yet again. Sigh.

[Coach Travis]

Alright, just to clarify, I was online for maybe 10 minutes yesterday, enough time to see I was in trouble, but not long enough to post anything. One thing I'll admit is it could seem like I'm not putting much effort into this, but it's because with so little time to read through some of these big posts, I've been forced to rush through my thought process, so I'm not able to get as much into it as usual. That would explain things such as talking about writing when responding to something about reading:That was something I knew I could respond to, but because I had little time to do it I kinda misinterpreted stuff, which resulted in that slopfest of a post. This isn't say I've been lazy, more rushed than anything. But today I happened to get early access so I have more time.

I'll answer any questions people voting may have more for me, I just wanted to make an initial post first.

Still not liking MPR. In fact, he may be more suspicious than zwet at this point, as he's still contributed pretty much nothing, and has used my wagon as a way to get in a serious vote. And of course, no reasoning for that vote, yet another person following the wagon.

Unvote

,

Vote:MPR

[Coach Travis]

Alright, time for my big defense post, followed by my current list of reads.

Overall, CT is being exceedingly cautious in his play and indicates he’s looking for a good wagon to settle on. His later postings definitely demonstrate that he’s preparing to jump from Zwet’s wagon to MPR’s and is just looking for the right opportunity to make the switch as others migrate in that direction. He’s tunneled on Zwet so hard for so long that he can’t just up and unvote, so he’s dropping hints about his suspicions of MPR so that no one accuses him of vote-hopping. In each post he is careful not to nail himself down to anything, even his vote on Zwet, whom he has maintained is guilty almost from the beginning, allowing himself room to maneuver without drawing undue attention to that maneuvering.

I wouldn't say I've been cautious, more inactive, and I have reasons for that. As far as being cautious goes, I've said everything I've felt while playing the game, given thoughts, I've just had difficulty due to a lack of time and also because with all the wagoning going on it's tough to read some players here. I still feel I've contributed more than some.

As for my own "wagoning":I've never made a vote just to follow a wagon. The zwet vote was the second on him, and I gave reasoning for it, didn't like how that fake claim felt, and after that my suspicions were confirmed with his strange posting style and all kinds of other craziness.

My vote on MPR also wasn't to follow a wagon, it was because I find him and zwet both suspicious, and since it currently seems unlikely zwet will be lynched, I decided to switch to someone who has a better chance of being lynched, because I want to catch scum today, and I feel MPR very well could be scum.

Also, I'm the type of player who often will mention a couple suspicions players at a time. I like looking at the bigger picture, trying to find anyone who I think might be scum, and not just narrow it down to who I want lynched today, so that would explain why I was always mentioning suspicions in twos(it was originally zwet and tans).

A)

The way he responds to Zwet’s first vote on him is, in tone,a lot more serious than required.

Giving you a second vote is hardly bandwagoning, and

either way it's at least as likely for town to bandwagon as it is for scum

. The fact you're already so worried about getting lynched you're resorting to an OMGUS vote makes you look worse than you did before.

Bolded area is a superfluous qualification of the first clause. Read his posts and look for this type of language; you'll find it in abundance.

I seriously don't get what's wrong with that post. From experience I know town are as likely to bandwagon as scum, I've seen it happen so many times where a bandwagon is almost all townies. Nothing I said there was false, or unnecessary.

His analysis of Zwet in Post #148 is also full of qualifying information; he retracts his accusations about the BW being scummy, because of what other people say about it and about his reaction.

Though reading more posts about it I can see how I overreacted a bit, and it's not a scum tell, so I won't just judge him on that.

C)

Also in Post #148, he suggests Tans and Zwet are scumbuddies who are distancing. He then says

Right now I think I'll leave vote on zwet, because I find them equally scummy, so there's no need to change it.

(Coming back to this in point E.)

Once again, nothing there that doesn't make sense. I already explained the thing with zwet's fake claim, and never seeing anything like that before on day 1. Of course I was going to feel strange about it at first, but once people explained how it's just a normal thing he liked to do, I realized I was wrong. And in this case, it was fine to leave my vote on zwet because both of them were still getting some suspicion, so even if tans was getting a bit more attention, it made sense to me to just keep the vote where it was.

D)

Another gem in this post (148):

@everyone, what alignment is most likely to not pay attention to detail in posts?

Townie, because mafia need to pay attention to everything they say, to make sure they don't do something stupid to get caught, so they're focus is a bit more defensive, where townies are more focused catching scum, so they tend not to worry as much about defense.

At first I thought this post was about

reading

; then I realized it’s about WRITING. The most interesting thing about this, though, is that it’s a response to Tanstalus’s quote about READING (Post #141), as indicated by the rest of the quote:

If you are town you are scouring everyones posts for the smallest tell.

I think it’s interesting that CT is thinking of being careful not in reading, but in writing, to the point that he misreads the question and responds based on the misread. This misunderstanding of Tans' question is an unusual slip and reveals what CT is being careful about in the game.

This isn't a "slip". I rushed through my reading, only saw the part about paying attention to detail in posts, and responded to that. I never even saw the other part, so going by that, I think it makes sense to interpret it either way. Regardless, my answer would actually still be the same, if not more even stronger in favor of scum, so it's no big deal. This works in my favor in one way, because I demonstrated I wasn't as concerned over details in making that oversight, and I know scum have to pay attention to everything written, look for ways to twist words around, make people look worse than they are, and see who they could possibly manipulate into voting certain people in the future.

E)

In post #219, CT decides to defend Tans for "flailing." Now that others have used this word and this analogy, he backs off his claim in Post #148 which basically found Tans very scummy for flailing.

I never found him suspicious for flailing, I thought he was being overly defensive, whining about zwet voting him, and giving him and HoS at first instead of vote. Basically, he was simply defending, not attacking. Once he started mixing in some actual attempts scumhunting into his posts, that's when I started to realize his flailing might not actually be scummy, but just bad play by a townie.

F)

In Post # 266, he has this to say.

Basically, there's a chance [Tans] is fact just a sloppy scum, but right now I don't feel that way and think zwet would be the much better lynch, because he seems more in control of himself, and looks like he's deliberately playing scummy, which I don't like.

I also agree about lurking being a big problem, and if I wasn't so convinced zwet was scum, I'd consider voting MPR as well, just because he needs to contribute something soon. In other news, I'm liking Dekes so far, so there's someone else I could add to my list of town reads. Right now my only strong scum read is zwet, but I'm not liking the inaction from MPR, and anyone I haven't mentioned could potentially be scum, but I still haven't had enough time to look into them.

It looks like he is still going to push the Zwet vote, but is leaving room to—or perhaps preparing to—jump wagons if he needs to do so. Phrasings like “there’s a chance” and “If I wasn’t so convinced…I’d consider voting…” and “anyone I haven’t mentioned” are also suspect. He’s again indicating that we shouldn’t be surprised to see him jump wagons if someone else gets a good wagon going on another player.

That was a pretty bad post on my part, I'll admit that. But again, I like giving my suspicions in twos, to consider who else I'd want to lynch if it starts to look like my top suspect won't be lynched, because in the my goal is to catch scum, so if my first option isn't going to work, instead of sticking to them and letting someone I find less suspicious get lynched, I prefer to have a second option. Which is why I'll sometimes say when there's more than one person I'm willing to vote for. The end of that was honest;At that point, I really had no clue about a lot of the players, so as far as I knew, anybody could end up doing something scummy. Basically, I just don't like to rule out the possibility of someone I'm unsure of being scum.

G)

And yeah, I get that zwet may be similar in his other games, but just in general the way he comes off I'm not liking at all, and with that type of player I'd always prefer to have them lynched because even if he's town I'm not finding him terribly helpful, and so far he's done nothing to make me think he's town. I've never got the point of playing mafia if you're going to be that deliberately unhelpful. MPR's fishing is getting ridiculous though, so I'm also suspicious of him.

This still looks like he’s balancing between two people who are receiving negative attention right now, which again indicates he’s looking for the best wagon.

I wouldn't describe it that way. As I said, I'm looking for the option where I'm most likely to get one of my main suspects lynched, because they're both players I see as scum. Also, I've gotten a bit used to zwet over time, even though I still don't like him, and I have been getting increasingly more suspicious of MPR. Even his reaction to his BW is similar to something I've said before.

Anyways, here's some more reads to go with what I've provided so far:
jenniwren:I think she's town. Nothing in her case against me is scummy, and she's making an effort to scum hunt, which is a good thing. She even makes some good points against me.

McGriddle:Really haven't seen much of him. Not one of my top two suspects now, but he's closer to scum than town, right now. As Uk has said, he's been pretty useless. Almost a null tell so far, though based on some of his reactions, I'm leaning more towards scum.

SpyreX:Another player who could go either way, mostly because he seems to be tunneling me, about one thing in particular, and he hasn't provided much content aside from that. Just going by gut though, I think he's townie and is convinced I'm scum, that's the read I get from a couple of his reactions so far.

Katsuki:Getting a town read there as well, some good posts throughout, and even the vote on me is understandable considering the situation.

I believe that's everyone now.

[Coach Travis]

No, the reads were, in order:town, scummish, townish, town. Basically, the two in the middle aren't as strong, but I'm still leaning one way, I'm not just saying null. Out of everything I've posted, you can see right now my three picks for most likely scum are MPR, zwet, and Mcgriddle.

[Coach Travis]

I think tans could potentially be scummy, obviously, but most of his actions so far have read more newb to me than scum, and it's gotten increasingly more newb and less scum as he's gone on. Though I'll admit, I previously never mentioned the possibility of him being an SK, (which I guess is because I've never been in a game with one before, so I just forgot they exist), but so far his flailing looks more town to me, he's been too hyper and too frustrated, plus actually trying to catch people he thinks are scum, and he's generally been open as far as his sharing his thoughts. Basically, right now I think he's most likely a sloppy town player, SK is second most likely, and scum, the least likely. Sense catching scum is better than catching an SK, you can see why I'd prefer to leave him alone now.

[Coach Travis]

LOL. Not anymore. Did you read CT's latest posts? That guy sits a fence harder than anyone I've ever seen. Last time I caught him doing that behavior he flipped scum.

I'm not fence sitting at all. And the difference between the two games is, last time I never gave thoughts on anyone until pressured to do so, gave far worse reads than I did here, where now I started doing it willingly early on, plus the fact I've actually given thoughts on every player in this game already, which is more than some have done. My thing is, I always consider that my initial reading could be wrong, and I don't have much confidence, so that will explain stuff like townish, and saying a read is almost null:It's not that I'm not willing to commit one way, it's that I'm saying how I feel, but know it's possible I'm dead wrong. It's not like I'm going to change my read on someone unless I see something big enough to make that happen, as with tans. Even in games where I was town my reads looked similar to in this game, so it's just a personality thing more than an indication of my role.

Anyway, I think I'm at L-1 now. I'll claim soon if I have to.

[Coach Travis]

I hate claiming, and especially with a role like this, because I feel if you get to this point, it becomes an admission of failure. But, since I'm at L-1...

I am

Simon Belmont.

That's right, the original vampire hunter himself, the guy who started the fight against Dracula. I'm a tracker, which means at night when I target someone, I can see whoever they're targeting. Would have been an interesting power to test out.

Also, knowing I was helped me to believe tans a bit more, because I had proof that series protagonists aren't just in the game, they're used exactly how you'd expect.

[Coach Travis]

Also, knowing who I was helped me to believe tans a bit more, because I had proof that series protagonists aren't just in the game, they're used exactly how you'd expect.

There was a grammar error. Should be clearer now. I was referring to my role, obviously.

[Coach Travis]

Don't like the rushed lynch. I obviously find MPR scummy, but a quick lynch without even giving him a chance to defend is pretty weak.

[Coach Travis]

Oh, he was certainly awful, but maybe he would have taken things more seriously at L-1.

[Coach Travis]

Don't like the rushed lynch. I obviously find MPR scummy, but a quick lynch without even giving him a chance to defend is pretty weak.

What are you talking about? His wagon hasn't been quick by any stretch of the imagination. Please explain exactly what you are talking about here.

I didn't realize zwet had already voted him, so I thought his vote was the hammer. Basically, I made a mistake while reading. The wagon has indeed been going on for a while, I just always prefer to allow someone a chance to make one final defense before being hammered, and I thought zwet was preventing that opportunity. Anyway, looks like we're getting nothing else from MPR, so I won't object to anyone hammering him at this point.

[Coach Travis]

Surprised I'm still alive, guess the scum figure I'm still too suspicious to kill off. Anyway, more bad news:I tried tracking zwet, but was unable to determine anything. So either he's immune, or I got blocked. Either way, it's not good. Seeing as MPR was town, I may have to reconsider some things, but I'm still not liking zwet all, so he's currently back to being my top suspect.

[Coach Travis]

Surprised I'm still alive, guess the scum figure I'm still too suspicious to kill off. Anyway, more bad news:I tried tracking zwet, but was unable to determine anything. So either he's immune, or I got blocked. Either way, it's not good. Seeing as MPR was town, I may have to reconsider some things, but I'm still not liking zwet all, so he's currently back to being my top suspect.

Or maybe he didn't do anything?

No, it's impossible to determine whether or not he did anything right now, because my PM said I was unable to learn if he did anything, not that he didn't do anything. So, it's definitely one of the possibilities I mentioned.

[Coach Travis]

It seems a bit of a stretch to infer that Zwet definitely did something in this situation. If you were blocked, then you were blocked...that doesn't mean your target blocked you. You are heavily inferring that Zwet knew you would investigate him and then specifically blocked you from doing that and that because you were blocked from investigating him specifically then he must be scum, and in reality, if you were blocked, then you would have received that response about anyone you investigated.

I'd never suggest my target was the one who blocked me, because there's so many other players who could possibly do it, that to say such a thing would be crazy. And yeah, there is definitely a chance zwet did nothing, but there's also a chance he targeted someone. Basically, it's frustrating because I was hoping to get more information about him to try and figure him out, but we ended up with nothing, so for my power to fail like that is disappointing, and all this means is I'll stay suspicious of zwet until I'm convinced he's not suspicious.

[Coach Travis]

@Coach:

Why did you target zwet? Didn't you find him suspicious? I find your #575 very weird. You said that you tried tracking zwet, which implies that you found him suspicious at N1 then you said, in the same post nonetheless, that he's back to being your #1 suspect. Can you explain this little discrepancy here?

That wasn't my best wording, it happens sometimes. I actually forgot that even while voting MPR, zwet was always my number one, but he indeed was. Obviously, everything else explains itself:I targeted him because he was a top suspect, so I wanted to see if I could uncover anything, to get an idea of what he's up to. Because I found nothing to convince me otherwise, he's still my top suspect. So yeah, read it as still my top suspect, not back to being my top suspect.

[Coach Travis]

Oh, wow! People actually believe that claim with all the blatant lying he's done this game? This is just ridiculous, and makes me further convinced he's scum, clearly playing off the fact that my ability failed on me, so I couldn't figure him out. I doubt he even targeted me, to be honest. If he was really a cop with a guilty, he would have brought this up the instant the day started, or at least as soon as I mentioned what happened, he wouldn't have waited until people were generally convinced to ignore me for the day. This just seems like scum wanting to remove someone they find an annoyance.

Vote:zwet

[Coach Travis]

He's clearly lying though, it's blatantly obvious. He's done nothing to help town this game, and now he all of a sudden makes a cop claim right when I look suspicious again for bad wording and panicking over a failed night action on him? Just seems like such an obvious way to set me up. I know keeping a cop is important, but I also know for sure he has to be fake, because I haven't lied all game, and I am a perfectly normal version of Simon Belmont, whether or not anyone else believes it.

[Coach Travis]

Oh, wow! People actually believe that claim with all the blatant lying he's done this game? This is just ridiculous, and makes me further convinced he's scum, clearly playing off the fact that my ability failed on me, so I couldn't figure him out. I doubt he even targeted me, to be honest. If he was really a cop with a guilty, he would have brought this up the instant the day started, or at least as soon as I mentioned what happened, he wouldn't have waited until people were generally convinced to ignore me for the day. This just seems like scum wanting to remove someone they find an annoyance.

Vote:zwet

I think you're wrong about that. A cop with a guilty verdict is better off trying to get that person lynched without claiming right away so that he can live through another night. When it looked like people were not going to pay attention to you, that's when he did claim...because he

did

have a guilty verdict.

The thing is, when did he ever make a serious effort to get me lynched since his supposed investigation, before claiming? That's right, never. He never attacked me before his claim post, he simply waited until I did something silly to look suspicious, then went after me with his claim. You'd think if he really was a cop, he would have tried togo after me without claiming, because it's not like there was never a case on me, and even before this some people never believed my claim. I doubt making a case on me without claiming would be hard, but he never tried, because he's not an actual cop, he just wants me gone because I've been a nuisance to him all game.

[Coach Travis]

I can understand not wanting to lynch a claimed cop I guess, even though I don't believe in the claim in the least bit, because it's impossible to get a straight up scum read on me, I'm not a miller or anything like that. Until I can indisputably prove otherwise, I'm willing to at least consider that maybe he is a cop, and the mafia did something to make the investigation turn up that way, maybe did something to me so I'd turn up scum on an investigation, I know a power like that is not unheard of(I had it in my scum game).

Because I don't want to die, I propose a way out of this, so neither of us need to be lynched:I target him again tomorrow, and if he's still alive I wait until he reveals his investigation target and their alignment, then if my power actually works, I can confirm or deny his targeting that person. If it goes through and he targets no one and is alive, I assume he was blocked, and could be a cop, same thing for if we name the same person. If I get a different name than he lists, we can assume my first guess was right and he's lying. I'd much rather do this than have either of us lynched for now, since I know I'm town.

So, going with that, I'll

unvote

Vote:Mcgriddle

because he was my next suspect after zwet, and he too has contributed pretty much nothing to this game.

[Coach Travis]

I'm not saying you're insane. In my theory where you're actually telling the truth, I think I was targeted by scum, so that I was somehow corrupted, meaning an investigation on me would turn up as scum. As I said, this wouldn't be the first time a power like that was used, so it's not totally impossible.

[Coach Travis]

I just don't want to get lynched for no reason other than an investigation claim which I know is either fake or was messed up somehow, and feel I at least deserve one more day to prove my innocence. I've been far more consistent than you this game, voicing my suspicion of you the whole game even when others were leaving you alone, but not tunneling because I accept it's possible you are just a bad townie. And then you just randomly come in and make that claim with no hint to suggest you'd do that, because you were never all that suspicious of me before. I just think it would be such a lame reason to be lynched over, especially when I have a plan that could prove you innocent if you are in fact innocent.

[Coach Travis]

Lynching me won't help with him, because when I inevitably turn up town, you'll be stuck having to consider both possibilities I mentioned, where I my plan would help us narrow things down, so we know what happened. I'm not scum, and lynching me just to confirm or deny his role as a cop simply isn't as effective as actually looking into him.

[Coach Travis]

Well, my gut feeling is still that zwet is scum framing me, so I'd recommend lynching him once you see my flip. But as I said, using some type of investigative ability on him would be the best option, in case I'm wrong and the mafia did in fact do something to make the investigation go wrong. So really, without my tracking ability, it's a tricky situation to figure out. But obviously, if there's still some power out there that could help in this situation, I'd recommend using it, without giving yourself away.

[Coach Travis]

[quote="jenniwren"] I think it's apparent CT is just fighting to stay alive. He sure is a popular guy at night, though, isn't he? I mean, he was RB'd, mysteriously given a false alignment by the mafia, and targeted by Zwet all in one night (Ask me which one of those three things I actually believe happened.).

If you read my posts correctly,you'd realize one of them was completely hypothetical, based off of a possibility where Zwet actually is a cop, which I don't believe, and so, the only night action I actually think happened out of those is the RB, which I'm fairly certain of. However, it's also a possibility I was targeted by UK, because she did think I was town, so it's not a stretch to think she came to the conclusion the mafia would want me lynched so they could remove a PR. I know the stupid tracking failure looks suspicious, but there's nothing I can do about it. RB's happen, and it did make sense for me to be the target of one.

[Coach Travis]

@LMP:Prepare to be disappointed. You haven't caught scum here, just an innocent townie who was set up.

Anyway, I'm ready to be hammered, there's pretty much nothing more I can do at this point, so I'll take one for the team. Also, another strategy I forgot to mention, for someone who has a PR it may be worth targeting zwet just to see if it goes through. That will determine whether I was RB'd, or if it was from zwet's side that my power failed. Aside from that, I still think zwet is scum, so go after him.

[Coach Travis]

Well, aside from the game being a complete disaster, I'll say the mods were both very good, the flavor was pretty cool throughout, and I thought the setup was fine:There really isn't anything youcan do when the town is so bad that two players become obious lynch targets(MPR, zwet), and then one of those two is so bad they fake claim cop to pretty munch insure another player is gone, who had already claimed a townie role and wasn't lying.

Basically, I agree about the zwet thing, and will be happy if I'm never in another game with him. Not just because of the gambit, but even outside of that I just don't see how his playstyle could benefit town. I know I also need to improve, but now in both my completed non-newbie games I've had teammates who really cost us, so it's like I haven't had a fair chance yet.

Anyway,good game otherwise, wish I could have done more as Simon.