Mini 1039 Lost: Season One (Over)

[AGar]

Hi all. Reading up now.

[AGar]

FUUUU I'm being spoiled nuuuu (I'm only 3/4 of the way through S2).

[AGar]

Let's see, by page 9 people are still discussing Vezok/dekes. Why don't we just ignore Vezok completely (considering he said he'll basically be detrimental to the town unless we let him lynch Dekes) and focus on scumhunting instead? The Dekes reaction analysis has frightened me. I know it's not the right townie mindset to allow for self-preservation, but when a known VI comes in and claims "Day namecop" and gives a false positive on you, and people start BLINDLY believing him, wouldn't you be a bit concerned? Just a BIT?

Chesskid assumes that the mafia have a QT - Kind of a scummy post

You're... you're kidding, right?

HH, get off the effing Vezok subject. Chesskid too. FFS, it's not worth discussion.

Need to iso some people before a vote, but HH's insistence on discussing vezok as well as his general un-usefulness that I've perceived thus far are sending me leaning towards a HH vote.

[AGar]

Alright.

Let's look at HackerHuck, everyone.

After an uneventful start, he decides this game would be a great game for blindly following a VI player with a conflicting claim. He follows up expressing distaste for both players not full-claiming, but continues to press on Dekes. He later states he'd be willing to go 1:1 on town for scum, although vezok has claimed lyncher (3rd party). Why the continuing justification for his past actions? Since then he has continuously discussed vezok and the lyncher, rather than scumhunting. His most recent post states his D1 scumhunting will be PoE. PoE on D1 doesn't work.

VOTE: HackerHuck

[AGar]

I do not see why chesskid received zero scrutiny.

You want scrutiny on an unvote but not on a claim of any sort?

Oy vey.

This post is really bothering me. We've gone from Dram saying BC is a bad lynch (usually meaning town) to this now. Does no one else find this suspicious?

[AGar]

This post is really bothering me. We've gone from Dram saying BC is a bad lynch (usually meaning town) to this now. Does no one else find this suspicious?

If you weren't making assumptions you probably wouldn't so much...

Would you rather me ignore your posts so I don't find scumslips?

---

@HH

Most of his case is shrouded in misrep. I certainly wasn't the only person that followed the VI. Obviously your predecessor did, but SeraDay did the same thing after specifically calling for a policy lynch on Vezok.

I can't really call myself scummy. As for SeraDay, yes they did. But the tone and the feel about their following wasn't as "Oh hey look, a free lynch" as yours was.

Part two of his case doesn't make much sense either. I express distaste for both players that didn't claim, yet I left my vote on Dekes and pressed for his full claim. If I'm not happy about both players for not claiming, why would I pull my vote?

Why not show consistency? You voted one player for action A while following the other blindly, but expressing discontent that he also committed the same problem. It's inconsistent.

Read the post where I said I'd go 1:1 for scum. I said that I was pushing for Dekes because I would be happy exchanging 1:1 for scum. I pulled my vote from Dekes once Vezok confirmed he was a lyncher.

By saying you would be happy for exchanging 1:1 for scum, you almost immediately recognize that you do not feel Dekes is town and that you feel Vezok is scum. Why not just cut to the scum?

I'm not making my lynch decision based on PoE. I've simply put a number of people in my do not lynch today bucket due to their claims. Maybe I should have done what you did and only look at the leading wagon. I'd like you to show me where you or TheLonging did any actual scumhunting. I'm not sure here if you're lazy or scum.

Or I replaced in and a wagon had already formed on a scummy player? Sorry that I wasn't in the game from the start, bud.

---

This post is lols. I'm scummy for replacing in and not agreeing with the way my predecessor acted? And I'm also scummy for poking at things that set off signals, ok. So basically, just blindly sheep with the crowd, but don't look like I'm scumhunting. Got it.

[AGar]

Well that's a peculiar "WTF" left-field moment.

Kinda breaks any credibility of any claim if Jack was mafia.

My apologies for my absence at the end of the day.

The false-hammer trick was bullshit and hella scummy. Other than that, nothing pinged me so far. Still curious about the Dram-BC bit, but whatever.

VOTE: Chesskid13

[AGar]

Well that's a peculiar "WTF" left-field moment.

Kinda breaks any credibility of any claim if Jack was mafia.

My apologies for my absence at the end of the day.

The false-hammer trick was bullshit and hella scummy. Other than that, nothing pinged me so far. Still curious about the Dram-BC bit, but whatever.

VOTE: Chesskid13

Wow, that's the _only_ thing you remember as scummy at all from D1, and yet you were away for the end of D1?

I think you read back, saw a few people point out that they didn't like my fakehammer, and you're trying for a quicklynch. Care to respond?
Perhaps with some thoughts on D1's: HH,TheLonging's Scumminess(is that you?), Vezok still being alive, The claimed Walt not being dead after softclaiming Beloved Princess?

None of this is at all worthy of any note? Seriously?

It stood out. Sorry that I didn't go through the end of D1 with a microscope and read every word and think up what the 30 different intonations and inflections could be.

- HH I wanted lynched. He claimed, people hammered, end of story. I'll go back and iso him if I feel it's relevant, but it doesn't seem like he will be. He attacked Vezo half the day then used PoE with people that had been cleared for whatever reasons.
- TL is my slot. I said once before, I disagree with his actions. If that makes me scummy, then whatever.
- Vezok is claiming lyncher. It's a waste of a town lynch but he does no real harm to scum, especially with his behavior. It seems beneficial to them to keep him around, no?
- Jenni isn't dead. I didn't get a Beloved Princess soft-claim, but then again, I've never seen the case. You trying to WIFOM the town into a mislynch on Jenni?

God I'm glad I made that vote. Then the "I'm going to vote you, then go dig up reasons why," is really good, Chess.

- MoI, that's kinda what I meant with my statement.

[AGar]

that sarcasm there doesn't help your ranking in my books. You completely ignored my question about what of every single other thing that happened in D1 did you remember, suggesting you only care about surviving day to day, and not what happens during the day.

You just seize on my fakehammer, and it's off to the races.

Also Jenni being alive + you not seeing the softclaim doesn't help your case either. I know I hate this kind of statement, but were I mafia, I would have tried hard to get Jenni killed because of this. But yeah, \end WIFOM argument.

5 and a quarter hours and you couldn't actually dig up a reason retroactively for your vote on me?

I didn't ignore it, I actually even specifically addressed each scenario you brought up. What else do you care about? Ademisk's vote on me? It's shitty. The rest of the wagon gaining on HH? I approved then, and HH wasn't a bad lynch. I'm not going to look at each post and pick it apart.

Let me clarify about Jenniwren.

I've never fucking played with a BP before. I wouldn't know what to look for in that soft-claim. I didn't even know what the role did until you brought it up. Check my wiki page, it's got every completed and ongoing I've participated in, and no BPs have turned up in the completed games. If not knowing a role or how it works makes me scum, then I should be lynched in a lot more of my other games I was in.

If you'd like me to address specific occurrences from the end of Day 1, point them out and request it. Otherwise, stop nitpicking for a reason to push your agenda.

[AGar]

Also @ people who find me scummy because of the fakehammer, a question:
Why would I, when I was probably fairly high up on everyone's town list yesterday, do something like that? Vezo was going to vote whether or not I fakehammered or not, and all I had to do would have been to not respond to HH's cop claim. Yet instead I did this crazy thing. Why? Can someone offer an explanation for why the hell I would do that as scum?

If you can't, and you're suspicious of me, that's very strange, isn't it?

Hmmm. Or you could've used it with that knowledge that Vezo was going to vote and use it to try and paint up a reason to policy lynch Vezo based on his "reckless behavior" so you as scum didn't have to burn a night kill on him. Also, you may have felt that being that high up on everyone's town lists yesterday would've given you leeway to get away from a bit more.

You still have no reason for your initial vote on me. Isn't that pretty retarded?

[AGar]

Why the hell would scum nk vezok?
They're going to leave him and Dekes alive and joint win with them at Lylo.

Start making sense please.

On the contrary, town doesn't look like they're set on lynching him. He's not going to be able to mislynched in LYLO by scum. Why shouldn't scum NK vezok?

Or are you just telling us what you're going to do.

STILL haven't addressed the fact that you placed a vote, said you were going to find a reason, then have simply said "I am glad I voted for you."

Still no reason.

[AGar]

Holy crap you're obstinate.

WHAT GUARANTEES DEKES IS TOWN?

A lyncher? I'm sure I could find a few lynchers who had anti-town targets.

FFS people anymore just take anything as confirmed town.

[AGar]

Also, "On the contrary, town doesn't look like they're set on lynching him."

Why 3rd person?

You asked for scum motivation.

[AGar]

Remember when you were about to get lynched, and dram swooped in and saved you?

Yeah, those were the good old days.

The fuck is that supposed to mean?

It's code for "I'm scum, now vote me."

I do believe you are, but he's telling everyone else.

[AGar]

Yeah, CK is scum.

[AGar]

@BC: I still don't like that you haven't even addressed the fact that dram saved you from being lynched D1. Why do you think he said that we shouldn't lynch you?

What the fuck do you want me to do? Write him a thank you note?

I expect it to be on decorative stationery.

---

Dram, getting a lucky flip on Jason and claiming you were right does not constitute a good reason to play based on "gut" and throw all signs of scumhunting to the wind. Still waiting on a reason as to why we shouldn't lynch BC, or yourself for being fucking useless.

CK, nice wall of IIoA.

[AGar]

Dram, getting a lucky flip on Jason and claiming you were right does not constitute a good reason to play based on "gut" and throw all signs of scumhunting to the wind. Still waiting on a reason as to why we shouldn't lynch BC, or yourself for being fucking useless.

Yea... we're not Dram. that wouldn't be good either >.>

I do not follow this post at all.

[AGar]

I want an explanation. And I want scumhunting, not "gut".

[AGar]

Dram, getting a lucky flip on Jason and claiming you were right does not constitute a good reason to play based on "gut" and throw all signs of scumhunting to the wind. Still waiting on a reason as to why we shouldn't lynch BC, or yourself for being fucking useless.

It's not a lucky flip though. Unless you wanna call the HH lynch a group-effort "unlucky" flip?
Gut play is not contradictory to scumhunting. There are multiple ways to hunt scum, and gut and motivation psychology is the one I prefer. Claiming your method is better than mine is ridiculous when your method has yet to provide result.

Also, stop rolefishing.

I never claimed my way is better than yours. I'm claiming that you're not doing anything and you don't have a way. Big difference.

And how is it rolefishing when you

soft claimed

. If you don't want people asking questions, DON'T SOFTCLAIM. It's a really simple concept. The fact that you won't budge on BC's being a bad lynch makes me (and others, apparently) really suspicious of your motives. If you're not lovers, then why the hell is he a bad lynch? Elaborate.

Chess, you still have no reasoning backing up your empty claims. Keep prancing, scum. You're jig will be up soon.

[AGar]

I never claimed my way is better than yours. I'm claiming that you're not doing anything and you don't have a way. Big difference.

You're blind to my way if you think I don't have one.

And how is it rolefishing when you

soft claimed

.

If I softclaimed, odds are I don't feel like hard-claiming. Now stop rolefishing, you're almost making me doubt my gut.

Part 1: I've seen nothing convincing from you.

Part 2: Don't softclaim. I'm saying I want answers. Transparency is pro-town. So give up the goods, or I'll keep at this.

[AGar]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Dramonic

There's no real reasoning to protect BC. This is some really blatant bullshit here.

[AGar]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Dramonic

There's no real reasoning to protect BC. This is some really blatant bullshit here.

Think for a second... why the fuck would scum dramonic protect scum blood? There is NO logical reason as to it. Lynching him is such a horrible idea.

Why wouldn't he? And who brought scum BC into the equation? I never said you had to be scum with Dram. I simply said Dram's unexplicable protecting of you is scummy. You've never seen scum buddy up to a townie so when they go down there's a potential mislynch ripe for their partner?

You are correct in that it's a bit odd that scum Dram would protect scum BC, but you're using typical scum logic to justify an action as town. That's textbook WIFOM. It's called breaking meta. I'm pretty sure Dram isn't a total idiot. I actually think he's a pretty intelligent mafia player. Which is why I think he's capable of this.

Just because something isn't the most logical path, doesn't mean it's impossible.

Let me explain.

Dram said you were a bad lynch.
Then Dram said he wasn't positive you weren't scum.
He is still saying you are a bad lynch.
Now you are saying he is a bad lynch, while you had simply let him be for the most part.

Note Dram has a grand total of

1

vote on him now. You at least got run up to about L-2 before Dram said it was a bad idea, but he has said he has "inside info," and not expounded on this since. You two are both alive. A bit of WIFOM, yes, but if a player says another is a bad lynch, it's usually a good incentive for mafia to kill that player, especially over another player with no roleclaims like Farasera, no?

Pardon me if I can't exactly make sense of the soft-claim here, the motivations or the logistics.

What I've gathered is thus:

You two aren't lovers.
You can't be masons.
Dram has no positive investigation on you.

If I'm missing something, I accept that, but I see NO reason why Dram had any justification for saying you were a bad lynch other than his personal read on you. But he has said more, without expounding.

Sorry if I don't just blindly buy into the two of yours' scheming.

[AGar]

What I've gathered is thus:

You two aren't lovers.
You can't be masons.
Dram has no positive investigation on you.

If I'm missing something, I accept that, but I see NO reason why Dram had any justification for saying you were a bad lynch other than his personal read on you. But he has said more, without expounding.

Let's add a new thing to be gathered.
If you think either of us is town, lynching either of us is bad.
No, we won't commit suicide over one another.

You haven't convinced me. I see no rationale by which if I find BC town, I shouldn't find you scummy.

[AGar]

Unvote

You're really at L-1 though, since I have every intention of voting.

Yes, because L-1 and L-4 are synonymous.

Are you REALLY trying to pull a claim this early? And I got accused of rolefishing lol.

@MoI

: Yes, you could say I haven't scumhunted in that I haven't posted a massive WoT case against someone. But I've noted my suspicions, backed them up with reasoning and poked and prodded at who I find scummy. I'm not going to give WoT and post by post analysis unless I feel the need to.

[AGar]

Also way to overreact.

Actually, my math is just horribad atm.

I counted 12 players. You unvoted off of a wagon at 4, I thought 7 to lynch.

[AGar]

3 people are dead holy crap.

Also this reminds me of something. Both Jason and AGar called me chesskid13, and now AGar is having trouble with how many people are alive.

Do the mafia have some kind of list of players or something?

Oh god! People who mistype names and who can't add must be scums!

Where's that case loser?

[AGar]

I'm indifferent towards the Adem lynch. I've got my suspicions on you and Dram, and to a much lesser extent, BC. I'm more inclined to lynch either of those two at the moment.

[AGar]

I have a null read on him. He's committed actions that give both a town vibe and a scum vibe. His lynch won't bother me, in that he could be scum unlike other people I've seen, but I won't support it because he could be town, unlike other players that I know are not town.

[AGar]

Adem? I haven't tried linking him to anyone. I've said he's null. He could be scum based on some questionable play like the "Jenni I know everything about you" moment which seemed unnecessarily scummy to me. He's also looked townie at moments, presenting clear and logical cases. Neither of those are strong enough indicators to establish a dominant read on a player, as I've seen the opposite alignments do similar things to what I have mentioned him doing.

[AGar]

I think there are two scum remaining.

I think you and Dram are the most likely fits for scum. There is no guarantee that you two are scum together. Therefore, I do believe that there exists a possibility that there are other scum. Ademisk is a null read to me. I am not going to vehemently push against an Adem lynch because of a null read.

I've laid out my suspicions. I am not going to spam with WoTs and rhetoric for a town to lynch players when it seems half the players can't even be bothered to post more than a few one liners daily or a couple paragraphs every few days.

MoI is bleeding obvtown.
You are resigning to finding the easy wagon and hopping on it. You're going with the flow, trying to push whatever's easiest to help you dwindle the numbers of the town.
Dram is "gut" scumhunting and basically just defending BC.
BC is coasting on Dram's scumhunting.
Jenni is coasting on her Walt claim.
Adem is a null read and is being wagoned for what I see as no good reason, but then again, I have a null read.
Dekes comes in, makes a decent post, then leaves for a bit.
Vezok is a lyncher. Basically leaving the site. Reck can elaborate why he's stayed here.

Aside from MoI, do you really see much pushing for any wagons going on?

You want a bit of wagon analysis? How about it.

Dekes - Voting Adem for the whole "I know your role and name" thing for Jenni. But he even contradicted himself, stretching quite a bit to bring his theory to fruition saying maybe Adem was gambitting to draw a claim out of Jenni.
Dram - Has given that his reads based on "playerstyle" make Jenni and Adem scum. I never knew you could find scum by how someone plays in general, which is what I've gathered from the post he made about it.
You - You spewed a lot of garbage, then opportunistically took your vote over to Adem. Your entire vote reasoning seems to amount to "buddying." Great one there.
Vezok - He's just aiming to get lynches. There's NO read there.

You then unvote WITH the lyncher already on the wagon (I.e, No way to have a quick hammer unless stupid scum just jumps on the wagon) yet say you want the pressure there and ask for a claim. What I don't get is the motivation for unvoting. Do you really think, if you're town, there's any reason to keep Adem off of L-1? Do you not believe your suspicion in him? Are you worried that a townie might quickhammer him? Because this reads of an attempt at letting the wagon fizzle out. I could see an Adem/CK3 scumpair here now, but it lies inherently on you being scum.

So no, I'm not going to oppose the Adem wagon. The likelihood just went up of him being scum, if anything. But I'd rather see you wagonned to your grave first before lynching Adem.

I do believe I've just laid out a further case. Now let's see if people catch on here.

[AGar]

EBWOP:

The BC line should read "BC is coasting on Dram's softclaim" not scumhunting.

[AGar]

@Jenni

Because Dram is scummier.

Also, nice job saying that you find NO ONE scummy.

[AGar]

Actually, my math is just horribad atm.

I counted 12 players. You unvoted off of a wagon at 4, I thought 7 to lynch.

It’s posts like this that really undermine my confidence in how carefully you are paying attention to the game AGar.

Is that a scumtell in your book?

[AGar]

Lynching Vezok is a waste of time because he's just gonna autolose when we lynch the third scum anyways.

Why is this relevant? I'm pretty sure everyone has noted this already...

[AGar]

Quit the fucking wall-spam.

Conciseness = pro-town.

WoTs = easy way for scum to hide their mistakes among loads and loads of text.

Dram - I'm not hardheaded, I'm not going to hammer a null-read. I'll stick to my scum reads, thank you very much. And until you shed some light on this soft-claim, you're my top scumread.

CK's insistence on having the hammer is bugging me, is anyone else noting this?

[AGar]

Jenni, your case could easily be applied to CK3, who is claiming that the 2 scum are in 5 of the 7 other unconfirmed players remaining, only excluding you and MoI.

Dekes has opened many suspicions, yeah. But he's stuck to one wagon today. How can you make such a blatant misrep while ignore what CK3 is doing?

You act like you've been a bastion of pro-town play, but you've required the town to prod at you to get you to do anything, and when you do, you have flaws as big as swiss cheese in your argument, and you ignore another player.

CK3/Jenni pairing is a definite possibility.

[AGar]

Also IIRC Jason never mentioned TL/AGar's slot once.

You can't even confirm that you're parroting someone else's findings? Jeez man, keep digging.

And where is complete ignorance of a player a solid scumtell?

[AGar]

Just noting the "1st to bring up presence of an SK" tell. Not sure on it's solid standing, but putting it out there.

[AGar]

Sure. Go ahead and hammer that listed town read of yours, too. I know you want to.

[AGar]

lulz, I never said he was a town read. I said I had a nagging feeling. Also said I was going to hold off on hammering to give Ademisk a last chance to claim/etc, and MoI to return from V/LA

Oh hey there, Chesskid? I want you to meet a friend, your old post.

Read and weep:

If I'm right about what I just thought of, here's my lists:
Townlist(notscum):
Chesskid3
MoI
Jenni
Vezok

Ademisk

_____
Scummylist (should contain 2 scum)
AGar
BC
Dram
Dekes

Word to ya motha.

[AGar]

But you'll hammer him.

Townlist is a townlist brah - major contradiction right here. Nagging feeling on a player you've been driving for a lynch on for the entire day isn't usually what constitutes a town read.

[AGar]

Go back and READ it...Vezo was claiming things based on the show, i.e., that he thought Ethan was the kid with the dog which is why he outed Dekes.

Nice misrep yet again. He said he

didn't

out Dekes because he thought Ethan was the kid with the dog. Nevermind the fact that the whole charade was an attempt to get a mislynch through.

@Dekes

I'm not sure how Adem fits into the scenario. I still don't know what to make of the claim. If he's Michael, I could see him knowing who Walt is but not the other way around in some twisted scheme of things. Like I said, I don't have a solid read on Adem because of his game throughout being on either side of things quite often.

Jenni, stop metaing Dekes now, because you're fucking it up already.

[AGar]

He brought up his use of parenthesis. You tried to meta him. Big difference, and you obviously don't know what you're doing.

[AGar]

@AGar: Dekes brought up his play in Castlevania by saying he used parenthesis there. If he is going to use another game as defense, I have the right to say he's not playing the same in that game as he is in this one.

So he never once used parenthesis there? If that's not your point, you shouldn't have brought up meta. Quite. Fucking. Simple.

[AGar]

@AGar: Dekes brought up his play in Castlevania by saying he used parenthesis there. If he is going to use another game as defense, I have the right to say he's not playing the same in that game as he is in this one.

So he never once used parenthesis there? If that's not your point, you shouldn't have brought up meta. Quite. Fucking. Simple.

Please don't talk to me like I'm stupid.

Also, why are you attacking me because I'm attacking Dekes?

I'm attacking you because your logic sucks. And I think you're scum.

That satisfactory?

The fact of the matter is - you tried pinning Dekes as scum

because he used parenthesis

as one of your key points. He said he uses parenthesis all the time. You retorted with a meta argument that he isn't playing the same as he did in a previous game.

NOT that he didn't use parenthesis, therefore debunking his argument.
NOT that his self-metaing was bad practice.

You chose to try and meta him yourself and then attack it. You just strawmanned the hell out of him.

I'll get to the meta part in a sec. But scum and SKs are the two groups who need to make up arguments against players to get them mislynched.

Now for the meta. You tried to present a meta argument as another part of your case against Dekes. The problem is, you only have one half of his meta. So unless you're hiding knowledge of a completed Dekes-scum game, you have no business meta-ing him. Same goes if you try and meta anyone.

[AGar]

I'm not making up arguments about him, I just pointed out to him that his play is different, AND IT IS.

You should probably stop playing mafia. Just sayin'.

You can't grasp the simple concept that YOU CAN'T META BASED OFF OF SEEING ONE ALIGNMENT ALONE.

Would you like that in a foreign language, possibly?

[AGar]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Ademisk

Dram's claim throws a hole in my assertion of Dram scum.
CK scum had perfect opportunity to hammer.
Jenni is still scum.
Adem likely with her.

[AGar]

Also, MoI - I refuse to throw up WoTs everywhere to "build a case." If you can't get my case in my concise points, your problem. Get off my nuts.

[AGar]

Also, Dram - get off my nuts as well.

[AGar]

I'm Shannon Rutherford, Town JK.

N1 I Jailkept Jenni.
N2 I tried to jailkeep her again.
N3 I Jailkept Dram, because I was suspicious when the keep on Jenni didn't go through.

Obviously scum has a roleblocker.

CK, your insta-vote without even suspecting anything else is hella scummy. You've been scummy since the end of D1, and no, not everyone was saying "Don't hammer." You're an idiot, blatantly misrepresenting any fact you can to try and get your mislynch.

VOTE: Chesskid3

[AGar]

*waits patiently for Reck*

But now I'm holding off on sleep.

[AGar]

I guess I should officially confirm my pre-/in, huh.

Do the other scum mind me posting the QT?

It's quite laughable from about N2 on, really. Dekes and I are like "FUCK OUR LIVES!!!! NUUUU"

I played awful this game. BC = scum MVP. (Sorry, but true).

We were really fucked from the moment Jason died. At one point I had schemed to intentionally bite the noose D2 to give the Claire/Jack claims credibility.

[AGar]

Also, Dekes and I simulposting completely caught me off guard, but I did a little dance.

[AGar]

/facepalm.

QT is in role pms. It's quite hilarious our desparation.

WHY DO I ALWAYS KILL POSTGAME?@?!?!!?!!?


QQ