Mini 1049 - Hide and Seek Mafia - FINAL Kablooie!

[mikeburnfire]

Hai guys, this game looked cool, and I know DG is a good mod. You probably won't get much content from me until the weekend, kinda busy.

[mikeburnfire]

Just a reminder that I'm still here. Real post within 48 hours.

[mikeburnfire]

Hey guys, you lynched yesterday before I had time to post. I have my notes at home, but I'm posting from school right now. I see my room was targeted last night. Glad I wasn't in it. I'd argue that I'm town because the mafia wouldn't try to pull off the same stunt twice, but that would be WIFOM. However, it was the reason that I hid last night in a room which I believed to be owned by mafia.

[mikeburnfire]

Hey, I haven't read anything from today so far, but here are a few footnotes from last night that I wrote:

1) If katsuki is scum, then tanstalas is scum based on vote 2 off katsuki onto mongoose
2) MPR = maybe scum. Voted Vezok when 2 other bigger wagons and stays on til end, but gives good reasons. vezok gets angry, point in MPR favor
3) tantalas = scum based on 188, insinuates vezok is clean after being attacked.
4) MPR looks really bad after 259.
5) Take the above notes with a grain of salt because I was pretty tired when I was writing them. They might not make sense to me when I go thru again.

My memory is a bit fuzzy, but I remember reading through the thread, and then katsuki did that thing, and I got suspicious of her. But then I watched the reactions unfold and started to think she was town. Regardless, Tantalas looks really scummy to me, so I will leave my vote on him

vote: Tantalas

I am very busy today and tomorrow. I might be able to get a proper post in on Friday, but if that fails, it will have to be Sunday. Whatever the case, I promise that Sunday night I will make a big ol' wall o' text and really crack into this game. With two deaths, including one scum, I'm sure there's evidence to be found. At any rate, I am always checking on my games, even if I don't have time or ability to post, so if you want me to answer something directly, lemme know.

[mikeburnfire]

I disagree. Heavy sleepers should always hide elsewhere. Light sleepers should stay put, unless they've already claimed to be light sleepers.

[mikeburnfire]

In addition, if we make it to a LyLo phase, we should claim where we hid during the various nights, THEN claim if we are heavy or light. We can catch lying scum best if we do it this way, I believe.

[mikeburnfire]

Work + More work + College + Marine Corps = No free time.

I will have a proper post on Sunday night.

[mikeburnfire]

I thought I could get some info from Vezok's death, but honestly he's the kind of player that you want dead even if he's on your team, so getting him killed is almost always a good move regardless of alignment. I can't find any information about other scum from analyzing him. I think MPR's hammer is a null tell.

Even though I was supportive of a tantalas lynch, I have changed my mind. I think the point about Katsuki's flip flop was very poignant (post 306), but hasn't gotten enough attention. I also think that Katsuki is scummy, and found nothing redeeming about 'em during my brief reread. I don't know what the Vote Count is, so I will leave my vote off for now.

Players I have good vibes on: camn, MPR, tanstalas

I am now accepting questions. Ask me about specific things that you think are important/relevant so I can analyze them. Because I don't see much else that draws my attention.

[mikeburnfire]

A)

unvote

B) I just checked his ISO. I've seen very little scumhunting, except with things relating to Vezok. So, I withdraw what I said about him. Still have good vibes on camn and tanstalas, but the good vibe I had on MPR was a footnote I had about him voting Vezok in 137, which really isn't much. Definitely needs to post more.
C) I read it, and while I don't agree with a few things at the end, I agree with most things. It is a good case that others need to comment on, because it definitely holds merit. I also think his countering of said case contains little that would actually redeem him.

[mikeburnfire]

I suppose I should, since he's the best case I've seen so far. It won't make a difference however, if others continue to ignore it.

VOTE: Far_Cry

Right now I don't think that either Tantalas nor Katsu are scum, so I believe that should either make a solid case (or point me to where they already did) or break it up.

[mikeburnfire]

I don't like being called wishy-washy. Some of us don't know everything,

jenniscum

, and as a townsperson I have the right to be uncertain.

I also don't like how you ask questions passively instead of directly. I'm right here, ya know? I had suspicions on Tantalas, but upon review I decided that they weren't very strong; I had forgotten I was voting him. There's nothing wrong with me pointing out that the FC wagon wasn't going anywhere in an effort to draw attention to it. There's no reason for me to have good feelings about more than three players given the current situation. And there's no mandate to vote somebody if I don't feel like it.

[mikeburnfire]

I don't think it was hostile. Well, maybe the first part, when I was responding to the insult. But the second part was me answering your rhetorical questions.

[mikeburnfire]

I'm already voting FarCry. Everyone else needs to do their part.

[mikeburnfire]

I'm going to

unvote

, as I think Nopoint is doing a better job than Far Cry did. I'm not really motivated about lynching Katsuki --if I did it now it would be more to avoid waiting on a replacement-- because I don't really see the case. The above case by NoPoint seems to revolve mostly around Katsuki being linked with camn, whom I believe to be town.

[mikeburnfire]

<- Still doesn't see the case

[mikeburnfire]

nopoint is probably town.

I agree.

I would prefer either a camn lynch or a tans lynch.

I vehemently disagree.

[mikeburnfire]

Why is Budja/Fary_Cry/NoPoint town, who's your top suspect and why.

Well, I thought that Far Cry was scum, so it should transfer than NoPoint is scum. But I feel that NoPoint is actually playing the game, and that his pro-town actions are enough to lay off of him for now.

Gimme a second to answer the latter question.

[mikeburnfire]

In post 116, Vezok sees a three-way tie in wagons between himself, Katsuki, and camn. He takes this opportunity to vote Katsuki and doesn't list a good reason. Now, I know I said that it's hard to determine things based on Vezok because he's so erratic, but I do believe that

this is a point in Katsuki's favor.

Camn eggs the wagon on, and mongoose (confirmed town) joins in for vote 4. Post 120 is Budja, saying that he suspects Katsuki-town,

but doesn't give reasons, a scum move.

He sees the wagon building, and wants to look town by going against it meekly. Tantalas joins too, but actually lists reasons, so it's not as scummy. Post 124 is Katsuki joining in, but looks like she's OMGUS angry.

The 128-129 interaction is more evidence of KatsukiTown.

Katsuki (4): Pomegranate, camn, vezokpiraka, mongoose
mongoose (4): jenniwren, Budja, tanstalas, Katsuki
MehPlusRawr (2): MehPlusRawr, TheButtonmen
vezokpiraka (1): Ellibereth

TBM places a second vote on MPR for lurking actively.

Should be a null tell, but because there are two very strong wagons going on mongoose (confirmed town) and mongoose (likely town), it seems like a less-than-optimal scum move. Townie points for TBM.
MRP then casts a second vote for vezok, based on something sleezy Vezok said.

That's a town point as well.

camn and Elli then proceed to place votes on mongoose, making her L-1.

Scumpoint to them for trying to derail the vezok wagon.

Post 176 by jenniwren REALLY rubs me wrong.

She says that her initial vote on mongoose was random, but she kept it there anyway because he acted nervous, which is a pretty weak reason. She also says that there is definitely a scum on the wagon or perhaps two, which is odd because she doesn't give any reason WHY that would be the case. Then she sets MPR up to be suspected tomorrow regardless of mongoose's flip. This is a very strange post, indeed.
Day is then ended by Vezok's hammer.
TOWN mongoose (7): jenniwren, Budja, tanstalas, Katsuki, camn, Ellibereth, vezokpiraka

Vezok's room gets blown up, but nobody dies. Tantalas states that Vezok should be confirmed town and instantly tries to vote Katsuki. camn corrects him. Loudly. In fact,

camn looks bad because she is putting on a show.

Doesn't state her suspicions either. She then votes Vezok. MPR joins, and Pomegranate piggy-backs on camn for the third vote. Katsuki puts the fourth vote on as a "pressure vote", and sets tans up to be the lynch today after Vezok dies.

Scummy.

Far Cry then gives his review of all the players, and seems to set jenni up for the mislynch after VezokScum is killed, while Katsuki continues to set up Tans.
Post 233 has

camn misrepping Katsu.

Post 257 by Elli lists himself, camn, jenni, tans, and far to be town, without much reason why.
The final vote wagon on VezokScum was: camn, The Buttonmen, Pomegranate, Katsuki, Far_Cry, MehPlusRawr. I sincerely doubt all 3 scum were on this wagon, but assure that at least one was, based on how Vezok plays.

My room explodes, but misses me and anyone else. camn goes after MPR, calling him the 'bus master', and also pretty much claims to be a Heavy Sleeper. TBR follows, but Katsuki goes after Tants. Tants joins the MPR wagon, but then switches his vote to Katsuki for lying, which is odd because you'd think that would be the first thing he'd want to say.

Elli opportunistically hops on the Katsu wagon, as does Pom.

Post 307 by Far Cry looks really good, in retrospect.

He gives his suspicions, but doesn't vote the easy Katsu wagon.

Unlike camn, who suddenly does.

Surprising to me, Elli unvotes. Maybe he's legit town afterall. Or maybe he decided to sit back and let camn do his job for him.

Anyways, that's my re-analysis up to about halfway through Day 2. At this point, my opinion of Katsuki, Far Cry, MPR, and Tans is pretty positive, while my opinions of jenni and Elli are negative. I also feel surprisingly cautious about camn, as she appears to be town at first glance, but seems much more sinister when I dig a bit deeper.

vote: jenniwren

[mikeburnfire]

So, wait. Elli, are you confirming that Katsuki lied (again)?

[mikeburnfire]

Well, then we had better get cracking. I'm busy with lots of lots of lots of stuff, but I may have time this weekend to finish my re-read. As it stands, I believe we should make a yes/no lynch as preparation:
Players I am fine with voting for: jenniwren, Ellibereth, Pomegranate
Players I do not want to vote for today: MBF, camn (even if I think she's a bit scummy), TBM, Katsuki
If you want me to vote for anyone else, let me see the case.

[mikeburnfire]

Hello replacement dudes. I'd give you a briefing, but I really don't know what's up myself. Katsuki is looking pretty lynchable, but I think she's town. Also, Vezok was lynched for a quickhammer, and turned out to be scum.

camn, why is Elli off-limits to you? Seems pretty lynchable to me.

[mikeburnfire]

Might not have time to finish my review this weekend, as I'm hella busy. If that's the case, and Katsuki/NoPoint are the speculated scum pair, I would prefer to lynch Katsuki, as I like how NoPoint has played. Also, icerint looks like a really perceptive player, as I am indeed not a very good townie.

[mikeburnfire]

Yay!!!

Katsu.. If you have any interest in improving your scum- OR town- game.. Take a good look at your play today. It made me, a towns townie, want you dead regardless of alignment.

Think about it.

Now let's see the flip.

Yes, and it made me, the towniest townie that ever towned a town townly not care if you were lynched. I'm town, you know.

[mikeburnfire]

Seriously you guys. Stop lynching town. Not cool.

vote: camn

[mikeburnfire]

Did burnfire just drop the "that sucks" tell?
Hmm.

Well, I disagree. It WAS cool.
Also... Who are you addressing when you say 'you guys'?
You don't say "dammit WE mislynched again"... You say "YOU GUYS" mislynched again. Hmm.

Probably nothing.

This is camn saying "MBF is super duper scummy, but I want everyone else to lynch him while I sit back and watch"

[mikeburnfire]

v/LA until Sunday.

[mikeburnfire]

VOTE : SPYREX

he actually DID just drop the 'that sucks' tell.
PLus he is bussing his partner.
Blus his predecessor managed to stay of the righteous Vezo wagon.

This is such a terrible case, I don't know why more people aren't voting camn.

[mikeburnfire]

1) The "That sucks" tell is stupid and null.
2) It's not bussing unless they're both scum, which they aren't.
3) Just because somebody wasn't part of a scum lynch doesn't make them scum. In fact, a smart scum would be on the end of the wagon, for good distancing. AKA you.

[mikeburnfire]

nopoint, I'm currently playing this game by ear. My suspicion of Jenniwren still exists, but recent things said by camn have not sat well with me.

[mikeburnfire]

unvote, vote camn

[mikeburnfire]

I'm doing my part. I'm voting scum.

[mikeburnfire]

I'm not entirely against a nopoint wagon. I'd prefer it over a jenni lynch, for that matter. But I still don't trust you, and you gave a pretty wide swath of players to choose from. Mind placing them in order of Most-willing-to-lynch ?

[mikeburnfire]

I'm not entirely against a nopoint wagon.

I'd prefer it over a jenni lynch

, for that matter. But I still don't trust you, and you gave a pretty wide swath of players to choose from. Mind placing them in order of Most-willing-to-lynch ?

Cognitive Dissonance.

Vote: Mikeburnfire

@Camn: You are either drunk or scum. Seriously.

Ohmygawdyousuck

[mikeburnfire]

Here's a giant wall of why camn is scum and we should lynch her. For those of you who don't want to sift through this tedious mess, I will boil it down for you:
She hasn't scumhunted at all this game, just gone after lurkers and easy wagons. Through the entire game she's buddied up to Ellibereth, attacked players for horribly dumb reasons, tried to go after Katsuki like crazy, even though she openly admitted that she thought that Kats was town (on Day 3 no less, when she should have been going for actual scum). She has also vigorously declared herself Town Townerson, the towniest townie of townsville, but her reason of "Vezok was lynched because of meee" is AN OUTRIGHT LIE. If you read through her posts in Isolation, it becomes very clear that she is scum, and that either IcerintMPR, TBR, or maybe Pom is the 3rd scummate.


ISO 5-10: Hypocrisy of attacking Katsuki without reasons, and attacking others for not giving reasons
ISO 12: Distances and coaches Vezok.
ISO 15: Quickly unvotes her scumpartner. The distancing is done, but we really don't want a lynch, do we?
ISO 18-24+: Rails on Katsuki for terrible reasons.
ISO 29: Unvotes Katsuki to put Mongoose (now confirmed town) at Lynch-1.
ISO 33: After Vezok's speed hammer to kill Mongoose, she does what she has to do, and votes her scummate again.
ISO 35 and 39: Calls Katsuki a lurking town, which drastically contrasts her opinion for the majority of Day 1.
ISO 42: Smoking gun
ISO 44: Votes MPR
ISO 47:

SHE VOTES KATUSKI AGAIN

. Why does she do this? Oh, because a Katsuki-wagon is forming, and it's just too easy.
ISO 63: "

"If Katsu is town, scum would have jumped on the wagon by now. If Katsu IS scum, her partners are NOT on the wagon right now, and are lurking. Which is almost certainly the case. Scum wouldn't be letting a mislynch lose steam, IMO.

Scum were already on the wagon. But you didn't talk about this possibility because it could implicate you.
ISO 65: After all the furor that camn makes about Katsuki being scum, she unvotes and votes FarCryNoPoint because ButtonMan made a good case. She then treats Katsuki like a townie. Actually, that's only partially true. Throughout the entire Day 2, she has changed gears between "Katsuki is obviously scum"and "Katuski is probably town, but let's lynch her anyway. In short,

she has avoided any actual scumhunting thus far

, just switching to whatever wagon is convienient.
ISO 68:

Let's run MPR up to L-1, and see who has the balls to hammer.

<- This statement fits well with ^that. I mean, she goes directly from Ï like Buttonman's case" to "Let's kill Buttonman"
ISO 74: Votes Katsuki because, surprise surprise, her wagon's back up to Lynch-2.
ISO 76: Tries to take credit for the Vezok bandwagon, when really, all she did Day1 was vote-on-vote-off Vezok in a weak scum-distancing play. If she's trying to take credit for the Day2 bandwagon, that's just laughable. She was just the first one to do the obvious.
ISO 77: Unvotes Katsuki to attack Nopoint, but swears to hammer Katsuki.
ISO 78: Tries to hammer Katsuki
ISO 79: Puts vote back on NoPoint
ISO 86: Back to Katsuki
ISO 90: Repeats what she's been saying all day: "I have no interest in hunting scum, I just want to kill you"
<LYNCH>
ISO 92: Pushes for Spyrex death. She attacks Spyrex for saying "I'm mad". She tries to link scumSpyrex to scumPom, even though she has never show much suspicion on either before. She attacks her predecessor for staying off the Vezok bandwagon (even though scum would totally sacrifice idiotscumVezok anyway). She attacks Spyrex for doing a VC-analysis like she did. == Four reasons for her Spyrex vote, and all of them are garbage.
ISO 97: Unvotes for no real reason, yells about how she's obviously town, tries to force the town's efforts towards lurkers.

LURKERS ON DAY THREE

.
ISO 98: "Even though I just vehemently attacked Spyrex for being scum, I'm going to obey him and vote for Pom."
ISO 101: She buddies to Ellibereth (she has been doing this all game), calls me town (I haven't been a very good player up to this point, so keeping me alive benefits scum), and TMB and icerint are town for some reason.
ISO 102: "Let's lynch the most useless people first". Yeah, just like with Katsuki. That worked out well for you.

NoPoint is town. Ellibereth is probably town. Camn is scum. Vote for camn on November 2nd. Or now.

[mikeburnfire]

ISO 97: Unvotes for no real reason, yells about how she's obviously town, tries to force the town's efforts towards lurkers. LURKERS ON DAY

THREE

FOUR.

<cough> Excuse me.

[mikeburnfire]

I forgot about that case TBM made, so I went back and looked at it. While I think some points he makes are weak, but the points that are strong are REALLY strong. There does seem to be an aweful lot of coaching with Vezok on Budja's part.

Since I'm sure everybody will be hesitant to lynch camn based on her steadfast participation, I will join you, Buttonman. But in exchange I ask that you look at my case, and tell me if you agree with the points that *I* have made about camn.

unvote, vote NoPoint

[mikeburnfire]

A little pressure and NoPoint starts making threats.

Anyway, got three tests today. No time to read the rebuttal. Maybe Thursday, Friday at most.

[mikeburnfire]

Since buttonman has not done what I asked of him,

unvote Spyrex, vote camn

[mikeburnfire]

unvote, vote CAMN

[mikeburnfire]

Oh, look. Camn is voting somebody, not because she thinks he's scum, but because 'he's a liability'. What a surprise.

Camn is scum. Don't expect to change my vote anytime soon, especially not to DizzyTown.

[mikeburnfire]

+ Camn is probably scum with NoPoint, but I'd rather flip camn first.

[mikeburnfire]

No, you weren't. What you did was incriminate Katsumi by linking her to camn. Once Katsumi was mislynched, you dropped any suspicion you had on camn. While you were doing this, I voted camn. You immediately came to her defense, inquiring about my vote and voting me. When I compiled a new, independent case against camn, you acknowledged it, but didn't comment on it. So that's why I kinda think you are a likely scummate. I'm really on the fence about you. Comment on my camn-case.

Now in a convenient, linked list.

• Coaching Vezok, who is now confirmed scum
  Puts Mongoose, now confirmed town, at Lynch-1
  Pushing for Katsuki's lynch, then calling her town, then voting her, then claiming that she's town, but a liability. After a brief moment where she votes/distances from FarCry, she puts Kasumi at Lynch-1, unvotes, tries to hammer, says that she think 's Katsuki could be town but that she'll hammer her anyway, eventually she gets Katsu lynched. In the end, she says directly
  I want you dead regardless of your alignment.
  
  Takes credit for the Vezok lynch
  "Gets sold" on MPR's case, then 3 posts later She is trying to kill him.
  Proposes killing lurkers on Day 4
  Proposes killing 'useless' players
  Says that killing lurkers is the only thing we can do because we have nothing

[mikeburnfire]

Well, I lynch people who have no interest in scumhunting, who spend their time going after lurkers and easy wagons. Someone like you, whose 'playstyle' has gotten two innocent townies killed, but wants to keep doing it.

Your playstyle is a liability, so by your own logic you must lynch yourself.

[mikeburnfire]

Nope, but the aforementioned qualities are common with scum.

[mikeburnfire]

Oh, I have no doubt in your ability to convince this town of sheep to go for another mislynch. Doesn't mean I have to be a part of it.

[mikeburnfire]

By the way,
Your twentieth VOTECOUNT was hiding behind its own arrogance.

Dizzy (5): ice, elli, camn, nopoint, spyrex
With 9 players, it's 5 to lynch...

Dizzy is lynched. He was a

Townie

*cough*

[mikeburnfire]

vote: camn

Let me know when you're all ready to actually win.

[mikeburnfire]

TBM was killed to incriminate NoPoint, obviously.

[mikeburnfire]

"Scum didn't think it thru properly and killed the person they were trying to kill"

...is that what you said?

[mikeburnfire]

AN2: It's a little weird that MBF has never been on a lynch. MBF, is that par for the course for you?

Actually, no, it's quite odd for me. But remember that Mongoose was lynched before I replaced in, and Vezok was lynched before I had caught up. I explicitly said that Katsuki was a player that I did not want to vote for yesterday, and Pom's mislynch was an obvious setup, so I stayed off.

camn - obvtown town credits:

1

no hesitation in lynching Veso.

2

Totally willingness to lynch almost anyone.

3

Total boredom with the mountainous nature of this setup.

1. No kidding, any scum with half a brain would buss scummate Vezok after his action
2. That's not town behavior
3. More like

total incompetence with regards to playing the game

.

mikeburnfire Domino - town. too obnoxious to be scum. Wont be worth a damn in endgame. Hopefully he gets pinched by a bomb

Hilarious, coming from the person who has been on every townie lynch without remorse, then brags about how he won't be lynched.

[mikeburnfire]

I expect a cookie from Burnfire when I flip.

You will get no cookie from me. How do I put this into words you can understand?

I seek the death of people who are hurting my town.

[mikeburnfire]

Yes, your player-by-player looked like actual scumhunting. Maybe you should have tried doing that earlier.

But don't worry. When you flip scum, I plan to go after icerint next.

[mikeburnfire]

Saturday? Heck, I'm hoping you get hammered before Midnight!

Also, why not include Sapo in that grouping?

[mikeburnfire]

Also, hide locations please.

[mikeburnfire]

Last night I hid in YOUR room, though!

No, I don't think you did.

[mikeburnfire]

No, I just think you're lying.

[mikeburnfire]

If this town has decided not to lynch you by Saturday, then not only will I stop trying to get you lynched, but also I will proxy my vote to you.

[mikeburnfire]

Oh good.

burnfire: DISAGREE
saporoviru: AGREED
nopontina: UNCOMMITTED

OK, burnfire... that is one agreed.
Get me lynched by Sat, or at least one vote goes down the tubes.

Your arbitrary deadline is garbage, and just more evidence of you being scum. And like I said, if you aren't lynched by Saturday, then I will unvote you and proxy my vote to you. So I, too, am agreed.

[mikeburnfire]

Ice,
Basically, there's an overwhelming amount of evidence that camn is scum, and if the town is just going to let camn live, then I'm proxying my vote to her so she can kill us all quicker.

[mikeburnfire]

I really don't get MBF willing to throw in the towel if by Sat a consensus isn't met.

It's a simple matter of giving the town the authority of my vote. If the majority of the town is against camn's lynch and won't vote her, then the consensus would be that camn is town. If this is the case, then I will not waste anymore of my time on this game. Let her mislynch a townie as she always done, and free me from this game.

In addition, you have never expressed strong suspicion of camn being scum. So would you have a problem with me giving her my vote?

[mikeburnfire]

I probably sound like a politician because I'm so impassioned about it. It was frustrating when nobody heeded what I said yesterday and mislynched somebody that I thought was an obvious townie, and camn was taunting me about being able to get away with it. But by losing my temper, I'm probably playing right into her game.

Either way, I hope people realize how serious I am about my conviction of camn as scum.

[mikeburnfire]

Scum would have been on Vezok's wagon as soon as possible because they planned to buss him during the night. IE you.

Also, I changed my mind about unvoting you on Saturday. As much as I have grown to detest this town, I think it's possible that at least 3 others will see you as I do, in due time.

[mikeburnfire]

With Spyrex under the delusion that camn is town, it falls on Elli to make the decision. Elli, look back thru-out the game. camn has been wrong about everything (Vezok doesn't count). And everytime you started to suspect somebody innocent, she buddied up to you and egged you on. I don't have time to go pull it directly right now, but check it out.

[mikeburnfire]

Don't have much time, going V/LA for a few days.

camn, I am hunting scum.
Stop pushing this deadline, it's too soon anyway.
Elli is town because I've seen the way you encourage and buddy up to her
I think wasting the entire day on getting you lynched would be good play if you're scum.
Your partner is icerint, probably.

[mikeburnfire]

I have no idea what's going on anymore. The back-and-forth between Spy and Icerint looks pointless.

[mikeburnfire]

Yes, congratulations camn. The way you determined that "Icerint may be scum or maybe perhaps somebody else is" was fascinating. I especially liked the part where you called Icerint "almost 100% town" to throw him off the trail.

Spyrex, your case is very solid, I must admit. There is a lot of evidence for Icerint-scum that I had not picked up on. But I disagree with you on camn. I would appreciate it if you would take a look at the case that I made on her and give me your opinion on it, other than "you raise points". Regardless, I have speculated for awhile now that Icerint was camn's scummate, so I can happily oblige an Icerint lynch if that's where we're headed.

[mikeburnfire]

Am I still voting camn? *checks* Good, I am.

HEY CAMN IF YOU CAN'T GET A LYNCH BEFORE SATURDAY WILL YOU GIVE UP THIS LYNCH Y/N?

[mikeburnfire]

I like where this game is going.

[mikeburnfire]

I am starting to believe you are wrong about icerint. The little bit of icerint saying that the back-and-forth between me and camn was 'very interesting'

could

be scum who doesn't want to get involved. OR it could be a townie who is overly cautious, which would also explain why he is hesitant to join wagons. I don't mean to completely dismantle your case because I do think you made good points, but I do think that icerint has done an okay job of defending himself. Not great, because he had meta junk in there and brushed off some key points, but still okay enough for me to believe that it's plausible for him to be town.

In addition to all the reasons I gave for why camn is scum, he hasn't stopped being scummy. Within a week he went from calling icerint super-town to almost-definite-scum. I know you're persuasive, SpyreX, but she didn't even try to argue. You can easily see that her beliefs on who is scum and who is town change whenever it's convenient. I had thought that there was one more scum between icerint and nopoint, but the way camn has been pushing this has made me start believing that this could be wrong.

I think now would be an appropriate time to repeat this quote:

IF you really seek the death of people regardless of alignment.. then you and I totally agree.

Icerint may have pussyfooted around voting people, but at least he was actually playing the game and doing some scumhunting.

Going back to camn's silly "deadlinelynch-or-else" tirade, I have started probing into it more. She must have assumed that I was not going to stop going after her. If camn is town, and if she legitimately believed that nopoint was scum, then she was putting all of her trust in sapo, a fairly risky move. However, if you consider the possibility that she is scum, and that all three of us are town, her threats make more sense. She was threatening a quick-self-hammer to scare at least one townie off the wagon. Perhaps she believed that if she could dissuade one player, then the whole wagon would fall apart. Her words certainly seem to imply it.

There's very likely a scum between [camn and icerint]. Perhaps both of them are. But I strongly believe that at least one of them is scum, and if we happen to mislynch one of them wrong today, we should strongly consider lynching the other tomorrow. (omg mbf is setting up tomorrow's mislynch blah blah blah)

[mikeburnfire]

The probability that I am scum with camn is relatively small.

Well, since I know that I am town, the probability that I am scum with camn is relatively ZERO.
But, this is not the case with you huh?

I strongly believe that at least one [camn/icerint] is scum, and if we happen to mislynch one of them wrong today, we should strongly consider lynching the other tomorrow.

[mikeburnfire]

Stop trying to browbeat Sapo.

Stop threatening to hammer yourself. Just do it. Oh, wait. You won't. This is all just an act to scare townies away.

[mikeburnfire]

Hey mike, do you have any recent scummeta.

Negative, I only recently started playing again, and none of my recently completed games, to my recollection, has me as scum.

The whole self-hammering thing is confusing me.
Can somebody explain it?
Muchas gracias.

Not really much to explain. We put camn at L-1, and she threatened a self-hammer if nobody backed off. Sapo backed off, so she didn't. Sapo is either her partner, or a spineless wimp. Either way, it's time to kill camn.

[mikeburnfire]

He made the agreement to unvote you, and he unvoted you. There's nothing shady about it.

His recent behavior of riding the fence is a bit more problematic.

[mikeburnfire]

Why does nopoint's focus earn him town points, especially since you would know if he is voting a townie?

Also, what evidence have you that I am town and not just scum strong-arming a lynch on you?

[mikeburnfire]

This game has taken a very interesting turn. Although I'd prefer a camn lynch, obviously, I can't say an icerint lynch would break my heart, since he would have been my next suspect tomorrow regardless of camn's flip. Giving Sapo the deciding vote may not be the best idea, given her erratic behavior as of late.

[mikeburnfire]

Spyrex, there are many reasons why camn is scum, most of them revolving around her ambivalence towards who scum is. I don't fault Icerint for having more than one reason, or adding reasons as he sees them. Most recently, in the post above me, it looks like camn is pushing an icerint lynch in order to save herself. The way she harasses sapo is also a desperate attempt to not die (or bussing, I dunno).

[mikeburnfire]

The above post makes me chuckle.

[mikeburnfire]

MikeBurnFire did say I was lying.. but then admitted that HE was lying.... but I guess Ice doesn't think THAT is too scummy since they are voting together now....WHY DOESNT MIKE GET SCUMPOINTS FOR BLATANTLY LYING?

Ha, what are you accusing me of now? Please enlighten me as to where I lied.

[mikeburnfire]

Ha, what are you accusing me of now? Please enlighten me as to where I lied.

When you said I didn't hide in your room. Remember? That was some anti-town play. Cuz I DID hide in your room! Which, according to Ice, gives me townpoints.

That was 10 pages ago, and the only reason you're calling me a liar now is because you're flailing. In fact, let's go look at my actual quote.

Last night I hid in YOUR room, though!

No, I don't think you did.

I didn't say for certain that you didn't hide in my room. I theorized that you didn't. It was speculation based on the fact that I think that you're a lying scum, and I stand by it.

Now, didn't you say that you didn't want to drag the game out like this? That you would rather self-hammer than put the town through a lengthy process of trying to get you lynched? That staying alive would only sap the energy of the entire town? Deadline is tomorrow now. We'll probably lynch icerint after you're dead, but without sapo we can't get a lynch. Shouldn't you hammer yourself so we don't miss the deadline?

[mikeburnfire]

This isn't about Icerint. This is about you calling me a liar, which I am not.

Saporo's vote is not worth waiting for if we miss the deadline because of it. We've been waiting for him for awhile, and now we've only got 24 hours left. We need a lynch FAST.

And what's this comment about 'stringing together lynches'? You say you want icerint dead, so why so serious? And what's with the implication that I'm a scum who's stringing together lynches if you're convinced I'm a blind townie?

[mikeburnfire]

Given that I think you and camn could be scum together, and given that it's about 24 hours to deadline, no thank you.

Camn, given that I am calling you scum, I am indeed calling you a liar in a sense. And I speculated that you lied about hiding in my room because I think, ultimately, it will be revealed that you are a light sleeper scum who decided to stay in her room last night. But that I don't assert as truth, as I have no proof, and you could just as easily be a scum who is telling the truth about her whereabouts. Either way, I'm about to find out.

[mikeburnfire]

Unofficial vote count because we're so close to deadline that this is very important no disrespect to the beautiful mod
camn (3): mikeburnfire, nopointinactingup, saporovirus
Iecerint (2): SpyreX, Ellibereth
saporovirus (2): Iecerint, camn

Sapo, we've been waiting on you very impatiently, and now you just tried to speedhammer somebody without explaining anything. Better start talking, or you might end up being the lynch today instead.

24 hours.

[mikeburnfire]

I'm satisfied with Saporo's brief explanation for now, and am counting down the minutes until somebody unvotes to vote Saporo, gets him lynched, he flips town, and we all see each other again tomorrow.

[mikeburnfire]

Meh. Best laid plans.

[mikeburnfire]

Your posts were garbage, even if you are town, which I'm still not convinced you are.

[mikeburnfire]

I am absolutely shocked at DG. I didn't think she was a bastard mod, but including a death-godfather? Not cool.

[mikeburnfire]

In all seriousness, I'm very frustrated that camn wasn't scum. I thought I had it this time. I have really been sucking as town lately.

I don't even know where to start now. I was basing everything on camn being scum, and I was completely wrong. Now I have to trudge through 1100 posts again, looking for scum. NoPoint and IceRint got a lot of attention yesterday as potential scum, but Elli and Sapo haven't posted enough to give me a positive opinion. Spyrex is active and hasn't garnished much attention, but I'm hesitant to follow him on IceRint, as he could have been setting him up for today's mislynch.

And I've got finals this week. Frack.

[mikeburnfire]

Oh, MC = mass claim. Sure, I guess we could. Not like it's going to be that big a game breaker, though.

How do we want to do this, all heavy sleepers claim first, or specific people full claim, or what?

[mikeburnfire]

Vote: Ellibereth?

[mikeburnfire]

It's still 5 players, yo.

Vote: NoPoint?

[mikeburnfire]

While I do think Emp is possible scum, I believe we should kill sapo instead. The erratic behavior yesterday jumping on-off-on the camn-wagon is highly suspect IMO.

[mikeburnfire]

Um, no. I'm not going to just follow you. Strictly given the odds, a coin toss says that you're scum. I don't think you are, but I could be wrong.

I am willing to switch to Ice, maybe once I see the case on him again. But I'd also like to discuss the merits of a Sapo lynch. Do you not agree with me that his behavior is scummy?

[mikeburnfire]

Ice, of course, meaning Emp.

[mikeburnfire]

I just checked your case on Ice again. I'm convinced enough. That post makes you seem very town, and you raise good point on Ice.

I'd still like your opinion on sapo.

[mikeburnfire]

Mod

: We need a prod on NoPoint, methinks.

[mikeburnfire]

Can't fault you.

[mikeburnfire]

If I had a bullet to my head RIGHT NOW I'd probably

be dead

FTFY

[mikeburnfire]

...its mostly sillytime until nopoint shows

the ass back up

.

[mikeburnfire]

Hi Space Pope.

We'll probably lynch you or Empking. Who do you suggest? :>

[mikeburnfire]

I really feel uninvolved at this point. I think Spyrex is town though. If I'm wrong, then it won't be the first time.

vote: Empking

[mikeburnfire]

I was the buddy of course. I got away with SO MANY MISLYNCHES! Kekekeke

[mikeburnfire]

NP and Sapo were terrible scum, and if icerint and camn didn't play bad themselves, you'd have gotten killed for sure.