Mini 1068: Prozacs Basic Theme 2: OVER

[StrangerCoug]

Since we can't really vote yet, the random questioning stage for everybody:

1.) How excited are you?
2.) Do you think you play better as town or as scum?
3.) Assuming you are town, who do you least hope is scum and why?

Answering myself, I'm pretty excited and I've always done better as scum. The person I least hope got a scum role is Flameaxe, because I perceive him as an established and excellent player.

[StrangerCoug]

VOTE: Blackberry for absolutely no reason.

[StrangerCoug]

UNVOTE: BB
We don't want an accidental ahmmer now do we.

Overcautious much? He was only at L-2, did the buswagon on your scumbuddy grow to quickly for your liking?

You are calling worrying about an L-2 a scumtell? What are you smoking?

UNVOTE: Blackberry
VOTE: q21

[StrangerCoug]

Doombuddy9 is the only person to replace out.

[StrangerCoug]

Now a question for you. What was the purpose of those questions?

Same purpose as any other question in the RQS stage: to spark discussion. The game hadn't started yet, so I felt them appropriate to ask.

[StrangerCoug]

If you are scum and someone is 100% dead set that you are mafia, do you kill them at night or leave them alive to throw people off your scent?

1. This question does not have sufficient information for a definitive answer.
2. I fail to see any value in this question even if it did have enough information for a definitive answer to be possible.

I see the question as no different in value than mine at the start of the game. What gives?

[StrangerCoug]

Oh, and I have a tendency to keep the player that suspects me alive. If I see the player as dangerous enough (investigative role, for example), I may kill him, though.

[StrangerCoug]

It's time for Bub Bidderskins to explain his post #71. It's not a very well-reasoned vote.

UNVOTE: q21
VOTE: Bub Bidderskins

[StrangerCoug]

VOTE: SC

His iso looks very under the radarish after setting up a rqs that he likes.

Could you go in more detail?

Unvote; Vote: StrangerCoug

Why did you vote for me?

Nice OMGUS

Your #71 is a very weak reason to go after Blackberry. Voting someone for asking a theory question? Scumhunting should be priority, yes, but the theory question is not inherently scummy. It sparks discussion, which can be a town tell in its own right.

[StrangerCoug]

VOTE: SC

His iso looks very under the radarish after setting up a rqs that he likes.

Could you go in more detail?

You appear to me to be on the verge of active lurking which was set up by being the one to ask the first rqs questions. You are coming accross as being of the mindset that you can fly low seeing as you made the first big thing in the game.

I realize the dropoff, but I'm having a bit of trouble getting into the game. I am trying the best I can to make who I think is scum known, and that's why I'm on Bub Bidderskins right now.

[StrangerCoug]

suspects... hmmmm nope none so far

Five pages in and you've got nothing!?

[StrangerCoug]

Why?

Because way to often two wagons get started and we over look certian people

That is awfully weak and gives me the feeling that you're not putting your best foot forward with the game.

FoS.

[StrangerCoug]

I want to be sure before I attack someone, what's wrong with that?

Your vote is telling us you're doing the exact opposite—you're voting xRECKONERx just to pressure him.

Unvote; Vote: StrangerCoug

Why did you vote for me?

Nice OMGUS

Your #71 is a very weak reason to go after Blackberry. Voting someone for asking a theory question? Scumhunting should be priority, yes, but the theory question is not inherently scummy. It sparks discussion, which can be a town tell in its own right.

Excellent job answer my actual question. Now, why did you vote for me? I didn't vote for BlackBerry because I thought he was scum, I voted for him to get the game moving in the right direction.

I don't see how my response is unsatisfactory, for one thing.

For another, at this stage of the game all of your votes should be for someone you suspect. 99% of the time, it's most useful to vote your top suspect. Anything along the lines of "I am going to try to fix a problem by voting the person causing it" implies that the person causing the problem is scummy. Not a bad way to go at all—in fact, it can prove excellent—but you're doing it wrong. Denying that you think the person you're voting is scum is, best case scenario, counter-intuitive.

Is anything else going past your head?

[StrangerCoug]

I answered your goddamn question already. Learn how to read.

[StrangerCoug]

I like it, though.

Back on subject, though: Would xRECKONERx like to elaborate on why Jahudo is scummy, or should I just take the former's meta for it?

[StrangerCoug]

They're probing for information, but they don't scream "Hey, I think so and so is scum. Let's get him!"

[StrangerCoug]

his avi pisses me off

Come to think of it I haven't seen any opinions from you either. Just that you want reck pressure, which isn't really a stance. Why not share thoughts about any of these "small things that are nothing extreme yet?" Wouldn't it help the town?

yes but i dont claim to have been scum hunting

Seriously, drmyshottyizsik? Upgrade my FoS on you from earlier to a

Major HoS

.

[StrangerCoug]

This'll be an interesting turn of events. What say you, Espeonage, now that xvart brought your unvote to attention?

[StrangerCoug]

If I don't get enough support for Bub Bidderskins (I'm just worried about my original vote reason now), I'll happily switch over to Espeonage.

[StrangerCoug]

That explains Moo's absence, something I was wondering about.

I'm just worried about my original vote reason now

Why is that?

Part of the reasoning for Bub Bidderskins after I voted him was that he would not tell me what was wrong with the answer to his question and insisted that I ignored it. Now that he's realized I did not do so, I'm not going to push him for that anymore. His voting Blackberry for asking a theory question still stands as part of my case.

[StrangerCoug]

Some of the votes may be ill-reasoned if reasoned at all, but if someone is "the scummiest player so far," then the wagon on him is not 100% useless. That's a contradiction of terms to me.

[StrangerCoug]

Some of the votes may be ill-reasoned if reasoned at all, but if someone is "the scummiest player so far," then the wagon on him is not 100% useless. That's a contradiction of terms to me.

What I mean is that its not currently doing anything for the game. It isn't generating discussion and therefore not generating info. Its great for the town if we can get some activity going, lynch him and get a scum flip (which I feel more likely than a town flip at the moment). I didn't say the wagon was 100% useless I said it was becoming useless - the lack of activity around it is a large factor in the game's stagnation and if that stagnation continues we will get to the deadline ad though Espy will be lynched there will be almost nothing to draw from that lynch (in the form of VC analysis, interactions, etc) other than the flip itself.

Aside: If this game didn't have an special deadline lynch threshold then the stagnation would lead to a no lynch the the wagon would indeed become 100% useless.

OK, this makes better sense.

[StrangerCoug]

I'm done waiting.

UNVOTE: Bub Bidderskins
VOTE: Espeonage

[StrangerCoug]

Ok so the case on me is because I found someone scummy but my gut said otherwise and that is scummy?

And that is supposed to be scummy because I could go either way on SC?

And that is a reason to stop the game cold?

Think about those things.

We have. It makes little sense to unvote me if you think I became scummier, as you did here:

UNVOTE: SC

SCs rebuttal actually gives me even worse scummy vibes from him but tbh I don't think he is scum yet.

This'd be fine if you then voted for someone you thought scummier than me. You didn't.

I can see how we said you could go either way on me, but your posts imply you have no solid scum read. Pick someone iffy, inquire about what makes him or her such, and if alarm bells go off, gun for that person. If you want me to get the rope instead of you, you're going to have to explain how my rebuttal made me scummier. There's still time—I've had a wagon swing toward me with the day very close to ending.

And the reason the game stopped cold? We were waiting on you to explain this. We still are.

[StrangerCoug]

I think Espeonage is actually overkill now. Wasn't I the one who put him at L-1?

[StrangerCoug]

I checked. If the last count's right, Flameaxe hammered.

[StrangerCoug]

That's... an interesting flip, to say the least. Night lasted awhile, so it won't be until late Monday that my head's likely to be together.

[StrangerCoug]

OK, before I switched to Espeonage, I was voting Bub Bidderskins. I think I'm a little crazy to be going after him at this point, so wagon analysis is the better route to go right now.

I have some unexpected time due to my biological clock still thinking it's DST, so give me a moment to look at it.

[StrangerCoug]

Coloring the flips:

Strangercoug - 1 - Bub
Bub - 1 -Blackberry

Esp

- 7 -

xvart

, q21, drmyshotty, cateraction, Jahudo, StrangerCoug, Flameaxe

Not voting - 4 - Moospiker, xRECKONERx,

Espeonage

So xvart was at the head of the wagon (just looking from here). I would like to think that scum would rather not all pile onto a wagon one right after the other, so at least one of q21 and drmyshottyizsik is likely town. Wouldn't surprise me to find another scum on the wagon, though.

[StrangerCoug]

xRECKONERx, as he's done quite a lot lately, brings up an interesting opinion. drmyshottyizsik explicitly said he

DIDN'T

want anybody to answer who killed xvart. Then again, the preview edit where drmyshotty, all of a sudden, votes xRECKONERx is unsettling. In my experience, he's VI, so I don't

QUITE

know what to make of it. I'm watching him, though.

I'm going to VOTE: Moospiker as he's the one that jumped on shotty that's scummiest to me. Flameaxe's vote was a clear joke (he wouldn't have immediately unvoted if it wasn't) and Bub Bidderskins has stopped making sense to me as Mafia. Jahudo brings up a good point in #224 in that he didn't accuse drmyshottyizsik prior to voting him, yet he says he got "moar [sic] scumpoints".

[StrangerCoug]

drmyshottyizsik, you have until I get home to give me a good reason why I shouldn't move my vote to you.

[StrangerCoug]

drmyshottyizsik, you have until I get home to give me a good reason why I shouldn't move my vote to you.

And you failed to address this post both times you posted since.

UNVOTE: Moospiker
VOTE: drmyshottyizsik

[StrangerCoug]

How about you post an actual case on someone rather than be flippant?

[StrangerCoug]

kettle meet pot

Keep digging, DMSIS. You are being of no use to this game as long as you don't back up your votes with reasoning, and sucking up to xRECKONERx isn't helping your image.

[StrangerCoug]

*turns on the radio and finds a hammock to nap in, thinking that'll keep him from thinking too much about drmyshottyizsik*

[StrangerCoug]

Also, I don't particularly like this.

drmyshottyizsik, you have until I get home to give me a good reason why I shouldn't move my vote to you.

And you failed to address this post both times you posted since.

UNVOTE: Moospiker
VOTE: drmyshottyizsik

It looks like your trying to give shotty a chance to redeem himself. But this is shotty we're talking about, even if you've never played with him you must know about his reputation and therefore know that the chances of him doing what you ask are slim to nothing. Basically you're first post is an attempt to look like your giving him a chance, when - knowing anything about shotty - that post comes down to: "When I get home I am

going

to vote for you."

One, learn the difference between "your" and "you're". You have them backwards.

Two, screw drmyshottyizsik's meta. If he won't take my threat seriously (and

ALL

of my threats should be), then he will pay the price. That simple.

[StrangerCoug]

I want to hammer.

[StrangerCoug]

I want a claim.

[StrangerCoug]

Unvote

.

VT claim FTW. It's what I expected townMoo to do. Call it gut.

Which means...

Vote: Bub

or

Vote: Flameaxe

.

You unvote Moospiker for claiming vanilla townie

AND

you consider it a tossup between two obvtown players? Seriously?

HoS: xRECKONERx

And although I know this isn't the hammer...

UNVOTE: drmyshottyizsik
VOTE: Moospiker

[StrangerCoug]

Hey, I can make fun of you for your solid town read on drmyshottyizsik if I want to too.

[StrangerCoug]

At this point in time, Bub and Flameyweapon are my top suspects.

Also, SC, why are those two obvtown ? =/

Bub comes off to me as more of a slight VI than actual scum and I don't see any sort of case on Flameaxe.

[StrangerCoug]

...that doesn't make them obvtown

I am not here to help scum decide whom to nightkill, especially this close to a lynch.

[StrangerCoug]

Hey, I can make fun of you for your solid town read on drmyshottyizsik if I want to too.

Yeah except I explained WHY I thought DMSIS is town instead of just going "Oh hey, these two players are obvtown" without any reasoning or support.

Vote: Bub

I have my reasons for supporting Bub, xRECKONERx.

[StrangerCoug]

As for Scummy vs. VI, I rarely get a VI read. I like that, because a VI read is completely useless bullshit that this site has delved into. I find what I listed against shotty is scummy. There is no holy written law on this forum that shows scumtells vs. VItells, so stop fucking acting high and mighty because you think there is.

Heh. Apparently, I'm not alone in this.

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: Apologies for not alerting you to the mistake earlier, but I switched my vote to Moospiker here.

fixed - Prozac

[StrangerCoug]

Rhinox's case is decent, but still not tipping me.

[StrangerCoug]

Apparently, I'm being ignored here. Bub Bidderskins,

DO NOT CLAIM YET.

I am Brittany Black, a doctor, and I protected Bub Bidderskins last night. As I have a 25% chance of killing instead of investigating my target, I'm playing it closer to a vig than a doctor. I believe Bub Bisdderskins to be town because the only person to die Night 1 flipped Mafia.

[StrangerCoug]

I am Brittany Black, a doctor, and I protected Bub Bidderskins last night. As I have a 25% chance of killing instead of investigating my target, I'm playing it closer to a vig than a doctor. I believe Bub Bisdderskins to be town because the only person to die Night 1 flipped Mafia.

How could that account for the mafia death? It would require something like a bus driver wouldn't it? Otherwise the only person you could have killed was Bub. Still, it is a possibility.

It can also be called a serial killer or a vigilante.

Apparently, I'm being ignored here. Bub Bidderskins,

DO NOT CLAIM YET.

I am Brittany Black, a

doctor

, and I protected Bub Bidderskins last night. As I have a 25% chance of killing instead of

investigating

my target, I'm playing it closer to a vig than a doctor. I believe Bub Bisdderskins to be town because the only person to die Night 1 flipped Mafia.

A) Were you planning to claim Cop and then decided to claim Doctor instead? "doctor" ... "investigating" .. huh?

Whoops—meant protecting and not investigating. This is what I get for defending Bub Bidderskins to death. I've messed up like that as town before (briefly forgot that game that I couldn't be nightkilled).

B) If you only have a 25% chance of killing, why would you play it like a Vig? Cautious, yes, but like a vig, no.

It's because I have a known chance of killing

AT ALL

. When Wheel of Fortune Mafia was being reviewed, I was told that correct play for the insane doctors (by name) were to play it like a vig.

C) POROCHAZ WOULD NOT HAVE A ROLE THAT IS ".25 chance you kill, .75 chance you save" ... learn your mods better.

Nice try using mod-WIFOM against me.

D) Who the hell would claim because someone you may or may not have protected is about to get lynched?

Me xD

vote blackberry

The hell? Blackberry may have made me unhappy, but that's no fault of his. He's thinking reasonably.

FoS.

[StrangerCoug]

A) and C) are the main points that

to me

make me think you may be protecting a scum buddy. (D) I *could* see myself claim if I was 100% sure I saved someone in a situation, or I may just have a skewed perception due to last game, after mafia died my instant thought was "Bus driver" not "doctor protection"... (B) I

really

don't know what I would do

if

I had a role like that. C, however, is still a main point for me. I've talked with Porochaz before. He and I think alike in terms of set-up and guidelines for roles and role balance. And one thing I would

never

do is have a role that involves

luck

such as you mentioned.

Similarly ≠ alike.

@SC: had you not protected bub, what would your opinion of him be? I ask because...

Rhinox's case is decent, but still not tipping me.

...you seemed to think there was a decent case against him. Did you think about the possiblity that bub is 3rd party or maybe even second mafia before claiming?

Had I not protected Bub, I would likely not have stalled his lynch either. That he may be third party was played around with a bit, but I'm no good at separating Mafia tells from SK tells. There is no descriptor for the Mafia flip, so a second Mafia group would have to be a werewolf.

[StrangerCoug]

Be more specific, Moospiker. Your vote is a joke to me at this point.

[StrangerCoug]

Not buying why you think I'm suspicious. Sorry, but you're trying to use mod-WIFOM to get me to die in your place.

[StrangerCoug]

I

AM

voting you. Pay attention.

[StrangerCoug]

It's the way I see it. Half/Half is going to be more common than Three Quarters/One Quarter.

You can say it one million times and the only response you're going to get is "La la la, you're scum." "This does not make sense to me, so it's not in the game" can be a very dangerous fallacy.

Think about it. If he claims a regular doctor or vig, then we might see it as a 'safe' claim and lynch him. So he claims some weird role so we can't see it as a 'safe' claim.

So you think I took a gamble and lost. Sorry, but I can't figure out the more ridiculous case of yours: the one on drmyshottyizsik or the one on me.

[StrangerCoug]

Oh for fuck's sake, the Moospiker wagon is still a thing?

*sigh*

Anyone wanna point out what he's done since the last time this was a debate that makes him a good lynch candidate?

He's saying that, since I said I have one chance in four rather than one chance in two of killing instead of protecting my targets, I must be scum.

LAME.

I also have good reason right now to believe that Moospiker and drmyshottyizsik are of opposing alignments, and I want to get rid of my more confident scum read first.

[StrangerCoug]

BAH!

[StrangerCoug]

Well, I'm glad we won. I felt I did well.