Mini 1049 - Hide and Seek Mafia - FINAL Kablooie!

[SpyreX]

I FUNCTION

Poorly. I'll be catching up tonight/tomorrow but if someone wants to give me the secret skinny I'm down.

[SpyreX]

Still catching up (into day 2) but good lord:

Camn is town.
Elli is town.
Far_Cry is town.
MPR is town.

Kat is probably scum.
Pom is probably scum.

I'd guarantee one of those two being scum (with, thus far, a fair to middlin chance of both).

The lurkers (SEE MOST EVERYONE ELSE) better pick it up because good lord

[SpyreX]

And I replaced a drunk monkey that I would have lynched.

[SpyreX]

I've missed you camn you magnificent bastion of sense.

<3

I'll finish up tomorrow the powers of muscle relaxers have devoured the higher level brain activities.

[SpyreX]

THERE, caught up.

Annnd....

I have to give one apology.

TBM, sorry I doubted you as a lurkerface. You're not a lurkerface. You are in fact a townface.

That said.

Follow me here.

Kat is scum. Not the ohh maybe ooohh nelly kind. But, the I'm certain of this kinda scum. Between lying for no town gain (hint: also for no scum gain but the default is in fact bad news bears), the teehee with the claiming AND the delay in giving the important part and this new "welp lynch me to help the game" business we done caught us a scums in the face.

FURTHER, and this is important enough I'm gonna lay it out now: When Kat flips scum, check her ISO. All those people she calls town without any qualifiers? Town. Every last damn one. (double hint: I'd bet hard on Pom being the last scum).

The ONLY reason I'm not throwing the vote/hammer is that I want to squeeze the Ice a bit just to make sure.

Spy, you know what Amished's tell thing is y/n?

Amished is in this game?

Regardless (n)

[SpyreX]

They are the tiny, perfect strokes of scum against the broad brushes.

Kat hasn't done anything. There's a lot of words, but (and I swear PLEASE GOD dont make me go through and get the diagrams) they're designed specifically NOT to say anything. Everything is qualified and not in the "I'm not sure what I actually think" but in the "I have to leave these bridges open".

Of course, that aside, the combination of factors listed before would be an instant death warrant anywho so.

[SpyreX]

I'm really thinking this isn't one of those MYSTERIES game and it is Kat and Pom, nice and simple.

[SpyreX]

She's got a case of that nothing virus.

What in her analysis is fresh thought AND feels town to you?

[SpyreX]

High on goofballs.

Being scum and being scummy are different beasts entirely. I'm more than happy to qualify my predecessors AND, if they are actually using analysis, I will used the fact they are confirmed to adjust my reads.

In other cases such as this one? Absolutely disregarded.

[SpyreX]

Ohh well if its meta then

[SpyreX]

Now, see, I'll give em. But, at the behest of someone aside from you. Since that is a lot of time on my end that can be done just as easy by an ISO.

[SpyreX]

Again, you'll get it when the OTHERS demand it which they wont because seriously.

However, lets just be clear:

I say you're doing nothing.
You say thats your meta.
Then you ask me for specifics.
I say I'll give them but its pretty self evident.
You then allude to that being your meta.

SO, if your argument is "Its my meta" why in the NAME OF ALL THAT IS HOLY DO YOU WANT ME TO WASTE MY TIME SHOWING SOMETHING YOU ALREADY AGREE WITH.

[SpyreX]

Pro-tip: Meta is bad. If you are AWARE of your meta and are going to use it as a defense welp

[SpyreX]

You've got to be kidding me.

On every level.

[SpyreX]

Yea this is pretty cut and dry and needs to happen. Like I said way back before.

[SpyreX]

I'm pissed because that one reaked of scum.

Siighhhh

[SpyreX]

Katsuki

(2): spyrex, Pomegranate
camn (2): TheButtonmen, mikeburnfire
mikeburnfire (1): Ellibereth
Ellibereth (1):

Katsuki

mongoose

(1): jenniwren
TheButtonmen (1): camn
jenniwren (1):

mongoose

MehPlusRawr (1): MehPlusRawr

vezokpiraka

(1): Budja

Katsuki

(2): Pomegranate, camn
camn (2): TheButtonmen, mikeburnfire

vezokpiraka

(2):

Katsuki

, Ellibereth
mikeburnfire (1): spyrex

mongoose

(1): jenniwren
MehPlusRawr (1): MehPlusRawr
spyrex (1): Budja,

Katsuki

(4): Pomegranate, camn,

vezokpiraka

,

mongoose

mongoose

(4): jenniwren, Budja, spyrex,

Katsuki

MehPlusRawr (2): MehPlusRawr, TheButtonmen
camn (1): , mikeburnfire

vezokpiraka

(1): Ellibereth

Katsuki

(1): ,

mongoose

mongoose

(7): jenniwren, Budja, spyrex,

Katsuki

, camn, Ellibereth,

vezokpiraka

MehPlusRawr (1): TheButtonmen
camn (1): mikeburnfire

vezokpiraka

(1): MehPlusRawr,

vezokpiraka

(4): camn, The Buttonmen, Pomegranate,

Katsuki

Katsuki

(1): spyrex

vezokpiraka

(5): camn, The Buttonmen, Pomegranate,

Katsuki

, budja

Katsuki

(1): spyrex

vezokpiraka

(6): camn, The Buttonmen, Pomegranate,

Katsuki

, budja, MehPlusRawr

Katsuki

(1): spyrex

Katsuki

(4): spyrex, Pomegranate, camn, jenniwren
spyrex (1):

Katsuki

budja (1): The Buttonmen

Katsuki

(3): spyrex, Pomegranate, jenniwren
spyrex (2):

Katsuki

, mikeburnfire
budja (2): The Buttonmen, camn
MehPlusRawr (1): Ellibereth

Katsuki

(5): spyrex, Pomegranate, budja, The Buttonmen, camn
spyrex (1):

Katsuki

MehPlusRawr (1): Ellibereth

Katsuki

(3): spyrex, Pomegranate, budja
budja (2): The Buttonmen, camn
spyrex (1):

Katsuki

MehPlusRawr (1): Ellibereth

Katsuki

(3): spyrex, Pomegranate, budja
budja (2): The Buttonmen, camn
spyrex (1):

Katsuki

MehPlusRawr (1): Ellibereth
jenniwren (1): mikeburnfire

Katsuki

(3): spyrex, Pomegranate, budja
budja (2): The Buttonmen, camn
jenniwren (2): mikeburnfire,

Katsuki

MehPlusRawr (1): Ellibereth

Katsuki

(6): spyrex, Pomegranate, budja, jenniwren, camn, The Buttonmen
jenniwren (2): mikeburnfire,
MehPlusRawr (1): Ellibereth
SpyreX (1):

Katsuki

----

There's not near enough from this that I like.

Unvote, Vote: Pom

[SpyreX]

Holy hell in a handbasket girl.

Its not 'that sucks' its 'I'm not often wrong when I'm that sure and thus pissed'.

And that SURE isn't nothing. Its just not as much as I like come D4.

LOOK AT IT. If I have to spell out Pom I swear to god

[SpyreX]

GOD

I'm not willing to vote Vezo yet for following his (often mind-numbing but) regular playstyle.

Lets keep this in mind down the road.

Eh, I don't see the point in speculating about this, as it's basically WIFOM. I'd say that it's a nulltell as far as vezo is concerned.

Then the vote in iso 8 off camn's rationale.

Then we get to the next day.

VOTE: Katsuki. What do you have to say about this?

This is based off of Tans's bit (whom Pom said she had 'bad feelings' about the day before).

Which leads to an explanation down the road of:

Okay, I'm still happy with my Kastuki vote; this is what I've got on him:

-He tunnels Tans, and in post 308, he twice lists the that a reason he finds Tans scummy is because Tans found him scummy. OMGUS much? How is that a reason?
-He WIFOMs everyone about his night action for no apparent or necessary reason, saying that it benefits town to confuse scum (302, 313, 316).
-He seems to get overly worried, and a bit defensive even about the first votes put on him at the very beginning of the day.

Which fits the pattern of IIoA based on things someone else has said. All nice and qualified.

Additionally, after seeing Jenni catch this right on if Pom-scum then Jenni-town.

SO, to tie in with above:

Katsuki (1): , mongoose
mongoose (7): jenniwren, Budja, spyrex, Katsuki, camn, Ellibereth, vezokpiraka
MehPlusRawr (1): TheButtonmen
camn (1): mikeburnfire
vezokpiraka (1): MehPlusRawr,

*No vote anywhere.

vezokpiraka (6): camn, The Buttonmen, Pomegranate, Katsuki, budja, MehPlusRawr
Katsuki (1): spyrex

* smack dab in the middle of the deathwagon. Based of 'me too'

Katsuki (6): spyrex, Pomegranate, budja, jenniwren, camn, The Buttonmen
jenniwren (2): mikeburnfire,
MehPlusRawr (1): Ellibereth
SpyreX (1): Katsuki

* early on the wagon based off of 'you're scum, but me too' and then nothing.

----
So, yea.

[SpyreX]

@Spryrex: "Vote Count Analysis" are supposed to have "Analysis" in it?

It's there. Its not as much as I'd like but like two posts above you I went ahead and made some of it all nice and clear with the pretty words and all.

[SpyreX]

Don't you blame me for my predecessor missy.

And if you think I'm bussing WELL go for it. Lynch Pom. Then reconsider the whole dance AFTER that happens.

[SpyreX]

GOOD LORD CAM ITS THERE JUST DO IT

[SpyreX]

There, now you can have your N back.

[SpyreX]

That works with 1 scum really well mon capitan.

Not before. Too many variables.

[SpyreX]

Look into your heart.

And if your heart says I'm a better lynch pull it out and yell BAD HEART before you fall over.

[SpyreX]

Good lord lets DO SOMETHING here

[SpyreX]

Well that's much better MBF.

I still want more Pom dead. Much, much more. BUT YOU DO RAISE POINTS

TBM PLEASE REXPLAIN FOR THE SICK

[SpyreX]

Damnit camn.

You're scum with pom, aren't you?

ARENT YOU?

[SpyreX]

Ok, one more time.

Look at the difference in how jenni mk 2 came in versus:

Oh hai. I've got to catch up on the game before I can provide anything useful, but I'd find it helpful if people would ask questions to help me along the way.

[SpyreX]

Dude don't taze me bro yet we've got 6 days I'm fighting for my right to party STILL because I'm THIS SURE about Pom

[SpyreX]

Not least of which because as town what the hell is "I haven't caught up (and I'm obviously stalling for more time) please ask me questions to catch me up"

What the hell kind of reactive town play is that?

Its not. Its scum. (Hint: if jenni and pom had switched replacements I'd STILL be way more worried about Izzy)

[SpyreX]

Or, not even bother to read and just ask if people have questions, ya know.

[SpyreX]

ARGGHH

Unvote, Vote: nopoint

[SpyreX]

I switch because I can get no traction and both of you jump?

*explode*

[SpyreX]

How in the name of zeus is any of this helpful?

Unvote, Vote: Dizzy

[SpyreX]

Unvote, Vote: Nopoint

I suck this game. This is 100% via TBM.

[SpyreX]

Or to shut him up.

Or because he was town town this game.

But the mechanics being what they are targeting his room to kill him AFTER already trying and failing? Woosh.

[SpyreX]

Coy?

You mean "not on site as per my V/LA"?

Well played.

And, no, I didn't realize it was the hammer.

However, even if I did I still would have done it.

-----

Now, maybe I'm missing something awesome BUT today is lylo.

So, I don't get camn's business some (saying for today) BUT I really don't get MBF willing to throw in the towel if by Sat a consensus isn't met.

I DOUBLY dont like this happening while I'm VLA.

[SpyreX]

Which OF COURSE, means that what happened today thus far will open a few doors.

Unvote

[SpyreX]

I dont think camn is scum at the moment.

HOWEVER, I'm rereading with my bit of freetime right now because as per the last two I've been wrong.

Its lylo, so if you thought camn was actually scum and you're actually town you're not giving the town authority. You're saying "all three of you HAVE to be right or we lose right now."

Which makes no sense.

You're talking waaayy too much like a politician right now and that is raising my eyes far more than camn.

BUT, I'm also absolutely not saying anything definitive EITHER WAY until I've reread AND I'm back home.

So, if you want to throw the game just go ahead now since this whole Saturday-gate is garbage from both of you.

[SpyreX]

And, just so we're clear - this isn't even normal lylo.

This is we've gotta be right AND gotta be lucky tonight lylo.

So playing speedball in it isn't awesome either way.

[SpyreX]

Ohh SNAP its not lylo.

That helps.

[SpyreX]

I'll be finishing this dealio up HOPEFULLY this weekend.

However, this reread is really making me think as of page 20 that we're missing the forest for the trees.

I'll give more detail when I can post again but there's SOMETHING very interesting that happened that no one has got back to and some of that is probably my fault.

[SpyreX]

The more I read the more I'm becoming convinced this is going to be a wasted day.

However, like I said, forest and trees.

In the meantime I want to play a little game.

Look at MPR's quickhammer on Vezok. More importantly, and I missed this round 1, look at what was happening

around

said hammer.

Then, fast forward a little bit. Look close, real close, at Ice's ISO. There's a few key pieces I want to see if the nuggets can be found (hint: one involves the reasons he has for voting me now).

Note: If Ice comes in here and tries to dismantle this before ALL of you comment just go ahead and lynch him for me.

Note 2: STOP CLIMBING ALL OVER YOURSELVES TO GET LYNCHED. JESUS. WE HAVE SOME DAY LETS USE IT.

Next week when I'm back I'm gonna do some more parsendance but maybe instead of camn /wrists we can look at some other stuff first.

[SpyreX]

AND FTR IF CAMN KEEPS UP WITH THIS AND I NOTICE I AM NOT PRIVY TO THE BLOCK I WILL IN FACT GO YEAAAA FOR LYNCH

[SpyreX]

"But SpyreX you said you don't think camn is scum!"

Nope. I could be wrong but I doubt it.

Doesn't change anything though.

[SpyreX]

Look closer. CLOSER.

Its there and I'm gonna be more than a bit sad if no one gets it before I get back home.

[SpyreX]

Keep on keepin on.

Many things, but making something up and then holding it hoping someone else sees something that I can go OHH YES THATS IT.

Good to see it begin though.

I would like the rest of the planeteers to post and play lookseepeeksee

[SpyreX]

Ohh Note 1 I love being prescient.

Strangers in the night, doobiedoobie doo

[SpyreX]

You know what the best part is?

When everyone comes back and I don't even have to do it. I mean, I still will and all but the simple fact this is the reaction should be plenty.

And, you'll note, I didn't say "don't object". I said if you do this, and exactly this, before they weigh in.

Which you've done with all sans camn who I'm more than a little ashamed of for missing these gems.

[SpyreX]

I mean, if there WAS no case then no one would find it and then more the fool me right? Which would be double plus fun for you because I'm scum, right?

Huh its a mystery then isn't it.

[SpyreX]

Thats not what I even pretended to allude to.

If you were town and I was scum this would be like a kid in a candy store for YOU. I mean, scum-SpyreX saying he has a case but not giving it right away? Its just a matter of waiting for me to not deliver and BOOM.

But, no, that's not what you did.

I mean, saying I did this hoping someone ELSE would do it and I could go "Ohh yea, see, SEE"

Woooosh.

I'm waiting for a couple key reasons. It is important. I need to believe.

[SpyreX]

Back home so I guess we'll play what was I actually alluding to.

The first part that you guys didn't touch (the MPR part) is simple:

When the "hammer" was first alluded to in 244 AND right before it happened there was something being discussed: manipulation of the night mechanics for an edge (something I STILL think there can be work done).

It wasn't just a quickhammer, it was a shut-up hammer.

But, that's not important in comparison to what I really wanted you to look at:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 7#p2568527 <--- ISO 1

There's a lot of words there, I'll give you. However, up through page 14 is already a Vezok lynch. So, that is bell one.

Bell two is far more important. And continues. There's no bite. Everything is quantified and baby-steps.

BUT, that could be fine. If it stops:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 4#p2570594 <--- ISO 3

Of course it doesn't. There IS something to note here though that continues. Which we'll get to later because I LIKE ME SOME SUSPENSE.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 4#p2570604 <--- ISO 4

AHH, here we go. Kat is scum, NP is scum. Camn is 110% town.

BUT, what's missing?

OHhHHHhh thats right.

A vote.

There was NO vote ever that day. None. He cheerleaded the hell out of that bandwagon but never bit.

So, that's phase one. Phase two:

I don't understand why you think Pom is scum. She seems town to me.

Why do you think she's scum?

Apart from that, it was just that her comments sometimes mirrored my own impressions as I read through.

Also, part of the reason I asked is that Pom is such a lurker in general that I dunno how you find her scum except by PoE.

Spell out Pom. I came to the conclusion that she was town during my readthrough. Why did you think otherwise?

That leads to:

Pom, if you think NP is the scum, why didn't you vote for him?

Vote: Pom

Answer my question.

Thats the reason for the jump. Which then sits there back and forth over business like:

So, you most want to lynch Jenni, or Pom? I wouldn't consider either Jenni or Pom to be particularly useful so...

Also Pom did not play the game and that is scummy but she is also Pom so I mean maybe it is just Pom.

Which turns into:

I am leaning toward supporting lynches on camn, MBF, or SX. I would prefer one of those first two.

NOTE WHERE THE VOTE IS.

NOTE WHO ISN'T THERE FROM THE FIRST ISOS.

But, lets continue. To the real nugget that made my eyes raise:

I re-edited it with colors and edited it so one name goes with each player:

mongoose (7): saporovirus, nopointinactingup, SpyreX, Katsuki, camn, Ellibereth, vezokpiraka
vezokpiraka (6): camn, The Buttonmen, Pomegranate, Katsuki, nopointinactingup, Iecerint
Katsuki (6): SpyreX, Pomegranate, nopointinactingup, saporovirus, camn, The Buttonmen
Pomegranate (5): Iecerint, Ellibereth, camn, nopointinactingup, SpyreX

AN1: I personally apologize for being on the Pome/Dizzy lynch...I originally voted her to pressure her into answering, but then forgot about it. I certainly didn't think she would be hammered without claiming her hiding places, etc.
AN2: It's a little weird that MBF has never been on a lynch. MBF, is that par for the course for you?

One of [saporovirus, NP, SX, camn, Elli] is scum.
Exactly one of [camn, NP] is scum.
One of [SX, NP, saporovirus, camn] is scum.
One of [Elli, camn, NP, SX] is scum.

I am most inclined to lynch camn at this time, on the grounds that someone was likely bussing vezok (it's VEZOK), and I know it wasn't my slot; and that I am leaning town on NP at this time. Since yesterday, I have not gotten the sense that she is interested in finding scum, but rather in lynching players who are not her; her attitude toward MBF's vote for her today is typical.

Outside of that dichotomy, SX's slot looks the worst for being on town lynches and only on town lynches. He also vocally pushed to lynch the two most recent town lynches.

SX, were you aware that you were hammering Dizzy yesterday?

saporovirus needs to assist me with this immediately. Are there any dependencies you've worked out about who may be scum? Do you dispute anything I have asserted?

Camn went from 110% town to #1 scum based on "typical" play this game.
NP went from #2 scum to town based on...?
And then, of course, I'm the scum for being on town and only town lynches. Because, of course, he wasn't. EXCEPT FOR THE FACT HE CALLED KAT SCUM, NEVER VOTED AND WENT POM IS TOWN AND SAT ON THAT WAGON AND TO HAVE THE SHEER GUMPTION TO GO "WHOOPS MY BAD" IS NUTS.

And, if that's not enough:

I will not stop trying to lynch you given an arbitrary deadline, no.

I could imagine being convinced to lynch NP or SX or whomever.

These are the kind of situations under which I would be convinced not to lynch you. Not because it became Saturday. That is dumb.

The exchange between camn and MBF is extremely

interesting

.

Bold is amazing and I'm ashamed at all of you for not raising some eyes.
The italics is one of those things that REALLY makes me go when he flips scum both you two are town.

And, lets not get started with my "still being coy" (i.e. not being online) about the hammer and get to the final part.

Look at the responses since I looked at his actual voting history versus what he's claimed and said I saw some nuggets.

Do those look like someone with nothing to worry about? Or, even better, someone watching "the scums" feed themselves into the maw?

Or, do those look like someone pre-defusing a situation? Because, in fact, there's something to hide.

Unvote, Vote: Ice

If I'm right Camn AND MBF are probably town. Sapo still reeks town from early but I would have to re-calibrate to make sure. Elli or NP make the most sense.

[SpyreX]

tl;dr:

Cognitive dissonance is awesome.
Qualified language is also awesome.
Fear instead of joy or indignation is also awesome.

Be a winner, lynch for dinner.

[SpyreX]

Of everything I brought up that is the least important. To such a degree I'm paranoid it wasn't an accident.

BUT, what happened to the about me having nothing? About me just wanting others to do my work for me? Where is it?

Instead I get "ohh yea I totally would have voted there" and "ohh it was a total accident and SpyreX is the bad dude for it" and even lol, meta meta meta.

You parked a vote on a town read versus anything else.

----

@MBF:

I see a lot of what you're sayin about camn. However, on one side I could see Camn-Ice BUT the "ohh this is interesting" versus either power bussing OR super defense makes me think this is town-on-town love and he's just feedin the fires.

---

On the flipside, I'm workin on a night hypothesis assuming a scum lynch today. I'm hoping to have it detailed out enough tonight for SRS discussion.

[SpyreX]

It works like this:

On a scum lynch only one scum remains. Scum can NOT hide in a different room.

Before lynch run the top two scum dance from everyone.

Split the game into two rooms (this would require at minimum two light sleepers to come out).

The split would be scum 1, scum 3, scum 5 / scum 2, scum 4, scum 6.

Light sleepers say if the players were in their rooms last night. IF someone isn't in the room, they get lynched.

Otherwise, a kill means it is the light sleeper from the other room.

NK doesn't change the basic idea, just always make sure there's enough for not game over if explode happens.

[SpyreX]

Hrm, thats real dependent on the light sleepers. Damnit.

[SpyreX]

I was just trying to win it outright. AND, especially if this was a scum light sleeper flip, I think it'd work.

Organization of the hiding at one left makes a lot of sense, one way or the other.

[SpyreX]

I just fear that the scum would bomb a room, get 3 kills, then it would be 2-1 lylo with

shenanigans

.

Thats my hesitation. IF, in a perfect world, there were two awesome light sleepers it wouldn't be an issue.

What are you referring to? I responded to all of your comments.

Not even remotely addressed to you.

Pure rhetoric. This comment serves no function.

The best part is this is far more rhetoric than what I was getting at but LETS DANCE:

^ Sounds made-up to me.

Hey guys I heard SX might be kinda scummy.

You will have to figure out what I am thinking for yourselves, though.

If you can figure it out, I will like you more.

Oh wait. I already let it slip earlier. Too bad.

"If I state a case on Iec and do not explain it but rather invite others to make it for me, and Iec objects to that, he is scum (or, at any rate, you should lynch him). OMG HE IS DOING IT. SCUMZ!"

Um, no. If you do bullshit like "I have a case try to guess it" I am *already* in the candy store.

Anyway, I haven't prevented you from giving a case. And it's not as I have prevented anyone else from doing the same.

I have not entered said candy store because the prior probability of NP or camn being scum is higher, so you have wiggle room from me than you ordinarily would.

Basically, you did something scummy, and now are arguing that you are not scum for having done something so ostentatious.

So, what happened to "SpyreX is just making things up. I mean, he just wants people to make a case. I mean, he's saying guess the case. I mean, even with all this you're not scum but you're scummy"

This was not new information at all. There is no "ohh yea." And you are indeed a bad dude for hammering.

The fact you weren't called out on grandstanding the Kat wagon and sitting on Pom your "town" read under the well, gee shucks.

As for that hammer?

Every time.

I feel no remorse.

HOWEVER, I also don't go "Ohh look he's been lynching town (which I grandstanded the one I said was scum AND then voted the one I thought was town AND he's a filthy hammerer of that wagon he'd been trying to push all day."

You know perfectly well that I invariably self-meta when appropriate as town. I have used this where relevant 100% of the time as town, and I've been town with you many times. You are only saying this for rhetorical effect.

You know as well as I do that it has nothing to do with my alignment. It is in fact a statistical towntell due to that second sentence there.

The two bolded sentences are awesome and best friends.

Ready for some legit SpyreX meta?

Meta is retarded and way overused.

The only thing worse than the "LOOK SEE THIS IS MY TOWN GAME YO AND I KNOW IT AND THUS IN NO WAY WOULD BE CAPABLE OF ALTERING IT I PROMISE" is the "LOOK THEY ARE SCUMMY BUT THEY ARE ALWAYS SCUMMY SOOO"

You've done both this game. Good job.

This kind of sentence makes me more sure you're scum and not just mistaken. This is not how a town player frames this issue. It shows that you are more concerned with the context a player has constructed before placing a vote rather than external circumstances that led to a vote.

You mean the "question" pom didn't answer? That after she did you left it there and gee-shucks it must be the rest of that wagon?

Get a danglin.

[SpyreX]

Unless you are the physical embodiment of meta (making you, in fact, the metatron) I have no idea how in the name of everything holy you could even pretend to throw out that new buzzword into the fray.

You have misread my comment on your behavior, though. I did not say that you are always scummy. You are not always scummy. You are not even usually scummy. You do, however, have a history of using irrational, bizarre reasoning to think I'm scum when I'm not.

I am aware that you do not like meta. Like much of the rest of that post: what does that have to do with anything?

If I really have to respond to this at the behest of others then I will.

Otherwise, I'm quoting it so that the masses can see how bendy-straw this is and vote accordingly.

[SpyreX]

+ Your case about Iec's inconsistency bears some validity. However, I will have to disagree with you about Iec's motive for not voting. I've played with Iec-townmate + Iec-scummate before and his description of his meta fits my observation of his previous games. He is usually hesitant to vote as town and not so as scum.
+ I also like your plans for the following days. If a pair of Light Sleeper + Heavy Sleeper bears an inconsistency, there is bound to be scum among them so that could narrow down our options a lot.
+ Why do you believe Sapo is town?

1.) The issue isn't just the not voting (which is bad). Its not even the cheerleading (which is super bad). Its the combination of the two with the cognitive dissonance of "Ohh yea SpyreX is pushin them thar town wagons".
2.) My worry, and maybe I'm missing something, is that my plan is a town win for sure IF the light sleepers are town. IF the light sleeper is scum then it becomes a lot more dicey.
3.) Just a gut read. Like I said, klaxons went off on commenting on the MPR hammer but not anything else I said.

It is not "bendy-straw" -- it is a very meaningful distinction. You usually seem very town to me in general. That is literally the opposite of you always seeming scum, so it is meaningfully not the same thing.

Leaving aside the fact this is all meta junk again lets get to the crux:

Did MY behavior change? Have I been this scum-notscum whatever you call it all along?

Because, you better damn well be able to say what changed.

[SpyreX]

Soo, hypocrisy aside in #1, I'm scum because Pom and Kat were town.

Just checkin.

@Elli:

The self-vote, the goading for more votes on himself, the "ohhh wacky meta antics", voting for Kat based on a difference of reads, vezok town.

The ONE thing he did that I truly approved of was the push on Kat for the lying. But, I would have probably lynched him before that even happened.

[SpyreX]

1. The Pome situation only exists because you hammered prematurely. This is entrapment, etc.

FFFFF

I am not a megavoter. "Ohh lordy be you hammered" is junk. Calling you parked on your town read entrapment is even more awesome.

2. You can fairly complain about me not voting Katsu. The reason is the same as with Pome, though; I take forever to vote or change my vote (in part because I hate premature hammers).

After above this is even more awesome. You take forever to vote your scum reads but a toss on vote is ok?

3. With 1 and 2, the hypocrisy you allude to does not exist (unless you wanna compare MPR quickhammering scum to your quickhammering townPome, which isn't really quite hypocrisy as MPR's behavior has no bearing on my attitudes about the game).

You are saying I'm scum, STILL, because I "pushed" two town mislynches - one of which you were all FOR without voting and the other you were ON.

This is the cognitive dissonance. No amount of playing ohh look I had reasons yo changes this.

4. You know my town meta, so it is my view that you should logically accept (1) and (2), unless you want to argue that I sneakily did something normatively scummy (i.e. tentative voting) as scum in conflict with my actual scum meta, which is bogus, because behaving in a scummy fashion invites suspicion from players who don't know my meta already, and I am too much of a weenie for that. [/self-meta] [/WIFOM] <--- But this is still valid. You have to posit absurd and unnecessary machinations otherwise.

Jesus. MY METAS YO.

(I am not answering anything else in this game that involves the word meta. The simple fact you are pushing this claiming to know both your scum and town metas is sooo amazingly bad I have no words).

As an aside, AND CAMN YOU PAY ATTENTION:

3. With 1 and 2, the hypocrisy you allude to does not exist (unless you wanna compare MPR quickhammering scum to your quickhammering townPome, which isn't really quite hypocrisy

as MPR's behavior has no bearing on my attitudes about the game)

.

Yes, the reason I think you are the off-vezok scum is because you've set up mislynches ("Pom and Kat were town")

and have an incriminating voting history

(only lynching town -- which technically doesn't really apply to my slot either way, so your hypocrisy claim is a little sketchy on its own, but I'm letting that one slide due to 1-4 above being adequate to address your issue).

So, MPR AINT ME but I'm incriminating because I've only lynched town (which means you're sure taking credit for that MPR scum hammer otherwise you've only lynched town too well played).

[SpyreX]

This is a statement evaluating my attitude toward the game. It does not evaluate my alignment. I hope everyone watching this interaction understands that. Moreover, SX KNOWS from past experience that I ALWAYS self-meta as town. He's being a playstyle policeman, not a scumhunter. This is scummy.

When I'm home you'll get the full version but lets just make this one clear:

I'm not evaluating your attitude. I am evaluating what you have chosen to use as a 'defense' for my main issues: meta.

To preface this with an actual piece of meta - you're not a bad player. Thus, the simple fact you are self-aware of what you would call 'meta' means, by nature, that meta is worthless. FURTHER (AND THIS IS THE IMPORTANT PART) utilizing said 'meta' for a defense isn't just worthless - it IS scummy. Meta isn't a shield that you can hide behind.

And this new business said above really prefaces how amazing this dissonance is:

I, SpyreX, not SpyreX-town or SpyreX-scum, hate meta. Always have, always will. I am, in fact, one of the most vocal about how overused it is - ESPECIALLY as a defense.

So this, like much else, is trying to have the cake and eat the cake:

Ice is exonerated by his 'meta' whereas it is actively being ignored to push on me being scum for it.
I am scum for pushing 'only town wagons' one of which Ice was on and the other was his number one scum pick.
My Pom hammer is evil and his predecessors is awesome.

AND, even still:

I'm both not scum and scum at the same time. I am shrodingers scum.

[SpyreX]

You're still doing it. You're still backhanded going OHH HES SCUM FOR IGNORING MY META when, again, its retarded.

But, you know what. Fire with fire.

Give me every one of your scum games. Every one.

If, in all those games, I find ONE reference to you talking about your 'meta' just go ahead and vote yourself. If there is none I'll acquiesce the point. Hell, I'll vote for whomever you want.

Backpedaling in 3,2,1

[SpyreX]

Incorrect. It is verifiably not scummy when I do it (i.e. in the sense that it doesn't indicate that I am scum). You can do a statistical analysis of when I use self-meta. It is a towntell for me.\\

I talk about meta in literally every game. I also self-meta in a lot of them. I always do it honestly, though, so I'm much more likely to self-meta as town.

ROPOS LOS BURNINATION

[SpyreX]

@Spyrex: Your argument is fallacious. You can't attribute the fact that Iec self meta as scum once to the fact that he's scum not for self meta-ing, especially if he has self meta before as town. Camn, on the other hand, accepts that Iec's self meta-ing is null and still sheeps your case on Iec, which is terribly scummy.

Thats not the point I've been trying to get across at all.

META ISNT THE ACTUAL ISSUE.

Its the dissonance in his voting versus what he's said I'm scum for.

Meta got brought into this because that was a huge portion of his defense for said actions.

But, with two votes on camn and sapo AND Ice saying they think camn is scum just man up and vote.

Get this done with, one way or another.

[SpyreX]

Really.

Really.

I'm out.

[SpyreX]

Ohh yea I'm lynching camn.

Right now in fact.

[SpyreX]

Please, lord, weigh in with what I've actually said.

And that was sarcasms

[SpyreX]

Well, since I know that I am town, the probability that I am scum with camn is relatively ZERO.

This stuff always makes me paranoid(er).

But, I'm running out of go-juice.

Elli needs to post so we can move ahead.

[SpyreX]

I'd still rather hit scum right now what with the crippling scum takes at 1 member left.

BUT, I've spent all my juice.

[SpyreX]

Elli. Who is yerk?

Sapo's last post makes no sense, btw. But that no longer surprises me.

[SpyreX]

Of course you'd be a bastion of sense.

(Why Yerk?)

[SpyreX]

Like most things this last day, it doesn't make much sense because apparently sense was also in TBM's room.

[SpyreX]

Camn the one thing that gave me pause is while what you were attempting was tech the time allotted was too small and you didn't put in the all important "This ends today, one way or the other".

I want sapo to come down hardline on camn. Because it doesn't add up in that murderin way.

Still no Ice though.

[SpyreX]

You know whats the awesomest about that but I've all but given up on happening?

The fact Ice just HAD to throw a new justification for that. Considering how this day started, its just tech.

But, alas, not gonna happen.

Camn, I'll hold your hand as you walk into the darkness. Or, I'll do it if you want me to. Because I sure don't see it changing at this point.

[SpyreX]

So that makes... sapo the swing vote?

OHhh man

[SpyreX]

Why you gotta be a tease?

Of course *gasp* that would have been a sapo-camn hammer BUT AT LEAST IT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED.

[SpyreX]

I'm pretty sure its happened before. I don't have a concrete example in front of me (and my wiki is WAY out of date - and I should probably add games I replaced into huh).

But, regardless of if I did or didn't in the past as town or scum you know better than that mr.

If you're gonna condemn me for that you man up and do it based on THIS game.

While you're here though, have you really said what you think about my Ice bidness?

[SpyreX]

Mostly my calling out the teaparty on "SpyreX is scum because of the Kat/Pom lynches" versus his being a part of Pom and cheerleading the hell out of Kat.

Not the meta. GOD, not that. I should have known better than to look the beast in the eyes.

[SpyreX]

Well, with the battle lines drawn thus, if camn is scum its gonna be a whole mess of "OHH LOOK AT SPYREX FLALALALA" tomorrow.
If camn isn't and I have to fight the machine AGAIN to get Ice lynched I'm gonna explode.

On the plus side I can not see both of them as scum together so thats something good from a scum flip here whichever way it goes.

[SpyreX]

I guess line one would apply to you too. Sooo

[SpyreX]

I thought camn was scum for changing her mind on NP?

Ohh man I can't keep up

[SpyreX]

I almost hammered camn out of spite right here.

Because I'm still thinking you are town in this mess MBF and holding onto this means its never going to go away. Seriously, if you switch the names in your paragraph it PRETTY MUCH WORKS BOTH WAYS.

But, nope, can't do it. If I'm not wrong I honestly hope you're scum with Ice.

[SpyreX]

WELP. I guess we could just finish this up?

[SpyreX]

Actually instead of even asking and what not I'm just gonna do it.

Heavy Sleeper:

Kat
Pom
Pom
Camn

(I even quipped coming in that I was replacing a perv BUT then I had to keep the trend going. )

[SpyreX]

Yes I claimed something that would make no sense.

That is what happened there.

Not where I went each night, no sir.

[SpyreX]

That's the right initial response from everything that happened on this page. True story.

MOD PROD K THX

[SpyreX]

Sigh.

It never ends. There is no light.

HAPPY THANKSGIVING!

[SpyreX]

Without question this needs to end with a sap vote.

Without question this needs to end soon.

Without question I am more than a little irritated.

I'm not sure what to make of camn not bringing up the scenario that's becoming more apparent to my eyes BUT we'll leave that since I'm not brining it out.

Additionally, looking at activity I'm REALLY not stoked at there being a post after that V/LA and it not being here.

[SpyreX]

Hosssss no thats not what I meant.

I'm feeding my own tinfoil thoughts at the momo.

[SpyreX]

It better not come to that.

Honestly, if I see ANY posts from sapo on site that ARENT here I will swing it that way before I let you get deadlined.

[SpyreX]

Wooo nelly I'm pretty sure in the before times we talked in detail about how scum have no reason to lie (sans, of course, the bomberman).

[SpyreX]

And I missed this so I'm pissed:

Fri Nov 26, 2010 7:10 pm

[SpyreX]

Hold up did I miss a memo?

I'm not scum now?

[SpyreX]

Why does sapo scum mean no bussing on Vezok?

Good lord game I hope you pull it together.

[SpyreX]

What in the HELL just happened?

Ice unvotes and within that minute Sap votes?

Jesus

[SpyreX]

Who? Ice? Sap?

Sure.

Although I'd much, MUCH rather it be Ice I'd kill pretty much anyone right now.

[SpyreX]

I'm more than a little paranoid about those posts climbing over each other and neither of them mentioning preview

[SpyreX]

I'm sorry camn.

Believe you me if I'm wrong and you ARE scum you did a great job.

I don't see it happening though. I'm already gearing up for rage at end game.

Unvote, Vote: camn

[SpyreX]

I figured.

I'm more than irritated at this.

[SpyreX]

You've no idea how much things like that make me want to rope you.

Much like yesterday, its still Ice.

[SpyreX]

Sure

[SpyreX]

I want that cleared up Elli. That makes absolutely no sense and NOW is not a time for making no sense.

[SpyreX]

With two scum alive isn't that game?

Or is it a single scum left?

[SpyreX]

God the maths are hard.

I'm probably voting for emp.

[SpyreX]

No, see, I went to the wire wanting Ice over camn and you guys wouldn't budge right.

Now its my turn.

[SpyreX]

Just go check my ISO. It's still there.

And we're back to that politik I really don't like. Camn was a bad lynch and THEN you said Ice was your second. I'm not saying ohh lets vote for someone out of the blue. It was laid out yesterday and unless you're gonna make the argument that yesterday stalled out on two town wagons (it didn't) welp.

Not that it matters because of all the awesome activity here but, soon, its throwdown time.

[SpyreX]

Sapo is a mystery. The big thing is I can't see WHY scum-sapo would pull that stunt with the hammer. Jesus, a town hammering herself is like candy.

[SpyreX]

Try harder.

[SpyreX]

I'm V/LA until Tues.

Not that it matters too much in this game.

[SpyreX]

Si. Then I'm voting Iceking

[SpyreX]

If I was clear on that I'd make sure it was known.

Irritatingly enough, I can make conjecture on everyone left alive.

If I had a bullet to my head RIGHT NOW I'd probably lean nopoint by a small margin.

[SpyreX]

I didn't say anything about a gun sheesh.

And, its mostly sillytime until nopoint shows the ass back up.

[SpyreX]

Why would you ask for a case on yourself all nice nice?

As for Emp, look at my iso and read on Ice.

Tomorrow I vote.

[SpyreX]

Dont get smarmy with me

Unvote, Vote: Empking

[SpyreX]

Or I lost it due to all that awesome activity.

I'll admit once camn got lynched I lost a lot of hope

[SpyreX]

Its surprising on that side, but the flip is aside from camn I didn't feel like there was a whole lot of 'trying' going on.

[SpyreX]

At that point it quit mattering. Like I said, once camn flipped town I all but checked out.

Seriously, the amount of inactivity this game was flabbergasting.