Mini 1090: Of Rogues and Curses ~ Game Over

[Uite]

VOTE: Vi

For having both a shorter username and one further along alphabetically than mine.

[Uite]

@VP Baltar, did you know that every game I've been in with Vi they've been scum? They've also won all of them. Clearly they're more dangerous than I am, neh?

If that's true, why did you even bother putting up two different random votes?

[Uite]

@Uite, because it's not actually a good reason to vote for someone

Then why did you go as far as to call Vi a threat? Was that just useless fluff then?

My early game votes are on players who haven't posted yet and hence have done nothing to help the town. It's a particularly weak reason but it's a reason that has some bearing on the game. I do it systematically because I've got to make the choice somehow. Voting someone because they've been scum in the past isn't productive.

I'd say by know there's enough to at least vote semi-seriously, but you're still doing your thing. What does it take for you to start with real votes?

Post 28 looks like it's on the edge of what I did to Troll as scum the first time I played with him - attack his completely arbitrary and informationless RV method. It's a very easy way to start putting suspicion on someone.

But I'm not you, and you're not me, so why do you consider me as having the same motivation you did back then? Also, I disagree that his method is informationless, at least by this point. The fact that he's still adhering to it when there are definitely better options than formulaic RVS votes, yet he is still doing it tells me that he doesn't want them to be used as a basis of reads, which I consider slightly anti-town.

@Uite, how well do you know Vi's play offhand?

Not very well, if at all. Never played with him before, and the brief snippets I've read of him in other games aren't enough to form a picture. The same goes for everyone else in this game, really.

[Uite]

@Vi:

I could be trying to cast suspicion this early, or I could be trying to get a read. This is the butt-sniffing stage after all. Both would look pretty similar, but I assure you it's the latter. Also, without a solid understanding of someone's playstyle, I think any conclusions of similarity are premature.

It's nice that you're answering in Zorblag's stead, and it does shed more light on the situation, but it doesn't do anything to my objections of the play.

@VP Baltar:

I never called Troll's method scummy. I called it anti-town. Huge difference. The better options would be anyone who has had some discussion about them, which is pretty much half the playerlist at this point.

Preview edit:

Daykill: Vi

Is this real?

[Uite]

Uite: We've established that Troll's vote method is anti-Town, then. It's not going to change. Why keep harping on it?

Because it's anti-town? Seriously, if you adhere to it rigidly, it's no better than throwing dice. I want him to do something that actually helps the game forward. Pretty much the only thing I've seen from him so far that actually tells us something is his defense of Gandalf, and that's pretty minor.

[Uite]

Well, actually you never specified. I just assumed you're hunting scum instead of hunting 'anti-town' players. My B. OR IS IT?!?!?!?

Except that I did specify. Getting reads is part of scumhunting, especially early on, and anti-town is a good place to start.

I'm the realest person you'll ever know.

Apparently not though. Why did you fake a daykill?

[Uite]

Quote for me please, cause I must be missing it.

Here you go:

Also, I disagree that his method is informationless, at least by this point. The fact that he's still adhering to it when there are definitely better options than formulaic RVS votes, yet he is still doing it tells me that he doesn't want them to be used as a basis of reads, which I consider slightly

anti-town

.

Also, it's Uite. U-I-T-E. The 'I' goes before the 'T'. The pronunciation is in my sig.

[Uite]

Uite: calling Troll's style anti-town is pointless.

Trying to get someone to contribute is never pointlesss. Do you really want him to continue doing that?

It would be extremely useful for you to tell us of actual reads on players.

I don't really have solid reads yet, though at the moment I'm suspicious of VP Baltar and Vi. Zorblag by association through Vi.

[Uite]

No, I don't want him to continue not posting content. But repeatedly addressing the issue as anti-town is just as detrimental to your own content posting.

I only brought it up once of my own accord, the other times was in response to other people's questions/misconceptions. And where's your content-posting, since you're now just as much responsible for talking about it as I am? You're sounding very hypocritical here.

[Uite]

Quoted the content I posted.
That's a pretty far reach with the hypocrisy argument there. Your response is a bit overly defensive.
Plus, you're missing the point. I am accusing you of sticking to an easy topic when there are other more relevant things to discuss.

Are you even reading the game? I know you've said that. Same as I've discussed more than just Zorblag's RVS strategy. Seeing as these things are true for both of us, yes you're being hypocritical.

[Uite]

I'm curious as to why you dislike me and VP Baltar in particular, since we're actually trying and pressuring scummy people.

What makes you think Vi and VPB are scummy?

Since these are essentially the same questions, I can answer them simultaneously. My objections to Vi so far lie in his early accusation about my reaction to Zorblag and subsequent defense of him. I get that they have a history together, but I ask someone a question, I expect them to answer it. If someone answers it in their stead, that muddies things up and makes it less useful. And of course I'm flattered by the comparison to Vi, but I think it's unfair. I don't know enough about his playstyle, and I assume he doesn't about mine, to be able to make such a comparison. Therefore the accusation looks unfounded to me, and I think everyone can agree that unfounded accusations are scummy.

As for why I think VPB is scummy, he misrepresented my issue with Zorblag, whether intentional or not. When after I pointed out he was wrong he couldn't find the reason why, that indicated to me that he wasn't reading very closely. That's something of a scumtell to me, though only in context. Still, enough to arouse my suspicion. The fake daykill didn't help either.

@Exe:

What compelled you to ask the exact same question as Vi?

[Uite]

but I ask someone a question, I expect them to answer it. If someone answers it in their stead, that muddies things up and makes it less useful.

To speed things up, I'll answer the

non-contestable

points for Troll.

[etc.]

Still, it matters to me whose words they're written in. What you've done now is give me information about you, instead of information about him.

And of course I'm flattered by the comparison to Vi, but I think it's unfair. I don't know enough about his playstyle,

and I assume he doesn't about mine,

to be able to make such a comparison. Therefore the accusation looks unfounded to me, and I think everyone can agree that unfounded accusations are scummy.

Well, it is/was our first times playing with Troll, and we were latching on to the same reasons, and I was scum in that game, so etc.
And from what I've seen of you, so far I don't think you're a whole lot different from me tbh.

One can further argue that playstyle doesn't have much to do with it, but etc.

I would contest that it does, at least in this case. I like to question when I see something worth questioning, to help me understand what's going on. That's very different from trying to make someone look suspicious, which is what you accused me of.

@Uite, great news! I'm now ready to cast what you think are real votes. My votes prior to this have been real and were cast for a reason but as others have said we can talk about that later.

Yeah, I should probably warn you guys, I tend to take things very literally.

**edit** you answered that while I was getting this post finished; it looks like my take was largely correct but I'll say that it feels like you're assuming that familiarity with my play is scummy which I find odd.

It's not the familiarity per se, but rather the answering in someone's place. That denies me information, and implies a connection to me. Usually such a connection would point to scum or mason buddies, but I guess it can exist outside of the game proper too.

[Uite]

So do I! Good to see I wasn't far off after all.~

You're going to have to explain this one more, I'm not completely following.

Also, I'm curious, how do you know about my playstyle? Is it from this game alone, or have you seen some of my other games as well?

[Uite]

Actually, looking around the GTKAS forum. I thought I saw a resemblance.

That's interesting, because I don't think I've posted any game related stuff there. And I still don't quite get what you meant in post #103.

@Utie: I wanted to know the answer to the question. It was relevant to my read on you.

That much I'd already figured out. I guess what I really wanted to know was why you couldn't wait until I answered Vi's question, since it would tell you exactly the same.

@Uite, I don't think that being my scum buddy or mason buddy would give Vi (or anyone else) any inherent ability to answer the sorts of questions for me that he has. What you're seeing thus far is simply knowledge of how I'm going to play. I suppose that if you think he's defending my play that's a slightly different issue but it makes much more sense as a laying out of expectations in my opinion.

True, but it's not the ability but the willingness that's telling to me. I see the defending as a reinforcement of that connection.

[Uite]

I will say that I hope you'll not get too hung up on it.

I won't. I was basically telling you that in post #102.

What do you think of Exe's vote for tanstalas? Well reasoned scum hunting or an opportunistic vote on a wagon on a weak player?

I think tanstalas had a point concerning nocase, and Exe's accusation based on that is less than solid. Whether that's actually scummy I haven't decided yet. Why do you ask? You yourself had a vote on tanstalas at that point, as per your RVS method, but unvoted shortly after Exe's vote. Why did you go for Mariyta instead of Exe? Also, why only list those two options? It reeks of false dichotomy.

Personality.
Whenever you see a tilde you can ambiguously assume that I'm making light of the situation. In this particular case, this argument is becoming/has become stale and irrelevant (whether you see that or not) and I resorted to mildly trolling you.

Thanks for the clarification. I'm still not entirely sure if you can derive an in-game playstyle from someone's out-of-game personality like that though.

[Uite]

It would be extremely useful for you to tell us of actual reads on players.

I don't really have solid reads yet, though at the moment I'm suspicious of VP Baltar and Vi. Zorblag by association through Vi.

I really don't like this post as he casts suspicion on three of the heaviest hitters in this game for what I can only describe as being on the outside of an inside joke.

There's a lot more to it than that though, as I've explained in subsequent posts. And what justification do you have at this point that I'm scummy for this?

[Uite]

@Zorblag:

Why did you dodge my question about your false dichotomy, and are instead trying to deflect my attention?

@Mariyta:

Post #123 is just bad. AtE, ad hominem, the works. Please tell me why Tanstalas' case on Exe is awful. And please give a real answer to Vi's question.

@xvart:

Apparently you misunderstand my points. I've already retracted my issue with Zorblag and Vi based on Vi's answering for him. My other issue with Vi was him jumping to conclusions. As for VP Baltar, I'm suspicious because he apparently wasn't aware of what I had said, yet he was willing to vote me for it. That's scummy, and it's something you are guilty of as well, and to a greater degree. I certainly don't think these are trivial things.

@VP Baltar:

I agreed with his discussion of the worth of a vote. A vote is a powerful tool, and even non-serious votes can play a part in a lynch. The accusation of fluff-posting that accompanied it rings true with me.

At this point, I'm not sure who deserves my vote most, but it's certainly not Vi, so for now:

Unvote

[Uite]

When are you going to actually answer the questions asked and provide something useful?

VOTE: Mariyta

[Uite]

How do you explain the certainty with which you declared xvart town based on only two posts then?

[Uite]

Because he comes across as town to me. You don't have to agree.

I certainly don't have to agree, but that is another point entirely.

Post #123 is pretty extreme. I'm asking why you are defending him so vehemently, based on the extremely minimal evidence (at that point, only two posts, one of which you yourself dismissed) he provided.

[Uite]

@xvart:

Apparently you misunderstand my points. I've already retracted my issue with Zorblag and Vi based on Vi's answering for him. My other issue with Vi was him jumping to conclusions. As for VP Baltar, I'm suspicious because he apparently wasn't aware of what I had said, yet he was willing to vote me for it. That's scummy, and it's something you are guilty of as well, and to a greater degree. I certainly don't think these are trivial things.

I'm guilty to a greater degree for jumping to conclusions? If that is scummy, why are you not voting for me? Chronologically speaking, at the time of your post, you said VP was suspicious for something that might have been an accident. I'm not jumping to any conclusions there because it is laid out in front of me: VP is scummy for something that might not be scummy.

How's your reading comprehension? There's a sentence between the jumping to conclusions part and the calling something scummy part, and that missing sentence contains what I'm accusing you of as well. That's the second time you're getting my statements wrong.

I do support you bussing your buddy, but everyone take note, this is

L-1

. Nobody hammer without a damn good reason, it's too early for this day to end.

[Uite]

Well, not really. The only person we need to hear more from is Troll OTOH.

That was my main concern. I still have some pressing issues with the guy. And the game is only 72 hours old. Ending it now seems too soon on principle.

[Uite]

Personally, I like the slow pace on this site. Granted, we've had a lot of solid discussion already, and pretty much everyone has contributed to it, but I still think it's going a little too fast. I'd like some time to actually reflect on what has happened so far.

[Uite]

So I've reread the thread.

Some things that stood out to me (that I haven't already noted before):

nocase's vote for Exe was very delayed, having first gone after Mariyta for a bit. Only after he votes for someone else does he explain it, and the reason seems lacking; Exe was not the only one who ignored gandalf's claim. The case against tanstalas later on seems overblown too, especially the way he's clamouring for a lynch, while not contributing anything else. Not really liking this.

VP Baltar never got back to mothrax's question in Post #77. He spent some time pursuing him, and then just stopped.

My own accusation of Exe's hypocrisy was definitely me overreacting. Still, I don't like his jump on tanstalas.

Zorblag seems noncommittal. Why this is, I'm not sure yet.

nocase never responds to xvart's questions in post #117.

Questioning a town read on yourself like xvart did in post #142 is something I've done myself as scum, though I'm not sure if it's actually a tell.

Mariyta's play is horrible, but the claim is halfway believable with the flavour. I'm starting to doubt whether she's really scum.

xvart didn't respond to VP Baltar's 'feeling things out' accusation when adressing his other points in post #173.

---

Okay, so right now I don't think that Mariyta is the best lynch for today. I'm more suspicious of xvart at the moment, and Zorblag isn't off the hook either. nocase is also starting to look bad.

For now though, I'll switch my vote to xvart.

UNVOTE: Mariyta
VOTE: xvart

[Uite]

So why don't you improve it? Answering the questions people ask you would be a good start.

[Uite]

@Zorblag:

To me, what you did came across as you trying to push me into a certain direction by presupplying the possible answers. That wasn't helped by the fact that the two options you gave didn't align with my own view of the situation. Coming from someone I thought was mildly suspicious at the time, I hope you can see where I'm coming from.

@Vi:

I hadn't considered mod provided flavour. I feel kinda stupid now. I'm fine with lynching Mariyta, though I'm not sure if she's the best lynch for today. xvart is looking scummier, and I'm not sure I like what nocase is doing.

@nocase:

You really haven't provided us with anything the past few days. What is your opinion of Mariyta and the wagon on her?

[Uite]

Who said anything about a hammer? By my count, Mariyta is now at

L-1

.

This is where I think your play suffers too Uite, you're not able to see what's relevant and what is not. Sometimes it's better to just move on instead of stirring the pot with distractions.

I know. It's hard though, because in Mafia details can be extremely important.

I don't have any flavor, so I can't give you any. I'm just a juggler-VT.

On the other hand, this is an outright scumclaim. If Mariyta isn't lynched TODAY it will be a travesty.

This one you've gotta explain. Her statement seemed pretty neutral to me.

i had a null read on mariyta and i was skeptical of one or two of the players on her wagon. at this point, however, i'm more skeptical of more of the players off her wagon.

Who would those people be, why are you suspicious of them, and why would you vote Mariyta over them?

Lol. You can request flavor for a POWER ROLE. You already have flavor for your own role.

No, anyone can request flavour for any role, at least that's how I understand General Rule #9.

[Uite]

@Vi:

Re: Exe, the way he talked about it made it seem like he believed his vote was the hammer, when it was not. Hence why I made my comment.

I get your point, and I was thinking about that, but I'm not sure how much more flavour she can give without explicitly quoting a PM. I know my PM has flavour, but it's not that much in excess of what Mariyta has told us.

The PM said I could request flavor. I didn't see a point. I don't need it for anything.

funny because i'm town and my pm doesn't say that.

That's interesting, because mine does.

@uite, i'm not outing which ones at this point in time.

Why aren't you telling?

[Uite]

Also, let's all stop talking about who could be a PR and who could not. That's not really helping find scum at all, so shut the hells 2 the up.

You're right, and scum should have a pretty good handle on what's what right about now. We do too, but it's less useful for us. I'm sorry for the part I played in this. However, there's one positive thing coming out of this mess. Gandalf scumslipped. Look at his post:

He already had outed himself. That's why I said i would be considering him confirmed town. Because scum would almost certainly be told that they could receive flavor. Town PRs not so much maybe.

He's pretty much saying that he's not a town PR. Moreover, he's revealing that he's unfamiliar with vanilla townie PM's, as per Mariyta and tanstalas. Striking VT and town PR off the possible roles, that doesn't leave much choice, does it? In fact,

UNVOTE: xvart
VOTE: gandalf5166

[Uite]

Uite: Wait, where in that post do I say that I can't be a Vanilla Townie?

It's not any one post specifically, but you just show that you're unfamiliar with them. This one is the worst:

You can request flavor for a POWER ROLE. You already have flavor for your own role.

This is simply untrue. And you could have faked it so easily by just looking at General Rule #9:

# This is a theme game. Flavor has been included in role PMs. At a player’s request, I will provide original PM flavor for

any role

he wishes to claim. Vanilla Townie PMs might not be identical.

I was saying that VANILLAS could request flavor for power roles. Your point is moot.

Where did you say that, because I'm not seeing it. All you talked about was scum and PR's

[Uite]

@VP Baltar:

Why did you change your vote from Gandalf to Tanstalas? You didn't give any reasoning whatsoever for your vote as well as your unvote.

[Uite]

Hey guys! Sorry I haven't been very active, but I've unexpectedly been swamped, and I'm not feeling very well, so playing Mafia kinda took a back seat.

Anyway, I've read up through the latest posts, but I can't go in depth now. I'll get back to you on that. I will say that I really didn't like the way VP Baltar handled Tanstalas' accusations. Instead of dealing with them properly, he attacks Tans' credibility instead. Very scummy.

Also, still not trusting Gandalf.

[Uite]

Sorry guys, still swamped. I'm just letting you know I'm still here, and that I'm more or less up to speed, though I haven't read too closely. I'll have time to do a good catch-up on Tuesday, most likely.

Again, forest for the trees, etc. I actually did respond as to why his case was not worth responding to, that being his fundamental flaw of making a ton of connections without any flips to back up his claims. If you feel this is legit scumhunting, then I don't know what to tell you. I'm not going to point by point something like that because it has no merit in the first place.

See, I don't get this "forest for the trees" stuff. What exactly am I missing, because details like that can be very important. Dismissing them outright seems very dangerous to me.

I feel there's something off about the votes people have been throwing around, but I can't quite put my finger on it yet. I'll analyse it more in-depth when I have the time.

[Uite]

Ok, like I promised, vote analysis time!

So far, there have been two wagons that have reached L-1, the Mariyta and Exe wagons. The players who have been on both L-1 points are nocase, Vi and Zorblag. The player I find most suspicious of those three based purely on voting behaviour is Vi. Why? Because both times he got off the wagons it was at L-1, giving the impression he was only in it for the claim. Even moreso, this post sounds a lot like someone pleased with a succesful rolefish.

The other strange voting behaviour is from VP Baltar. He initially agrees with my Gandalf-scumslip theory, and joins the wagon. However, when Tanstalas joins the Gandalf wagon shortly after, he almost immediately switches his vote to Tans, with virtually no explanation. To me, this really reads like he jumped on the wagon to distance himself from his buddy, when the wagon picks up steam, he responds with a chainsaw defense. Tans pick up on this, and instead of adressing the accusations, VPB instead attacks the character of his accuser. When I call him out on it, he does essentially the same to me.

Frankly, a Gandalf/VPB scumteam seems very likely at this point. As for the budy, I'm not sure. Could be Vi, could be someone else, like xvart or Exe. I'll need to look into those players, but I'll save it for a later post.

[Uite]

Frankly, a Gandalf/VPB scumteam seems very likely at this point. As for the budy, I'm not sure. Could be Vi, could be someone else, like xvart or Exe. I'll need to look into those players, but I'll save it for a later post.

Exactly my point.

Well, on one hand I don't think I've ever seen scum deliberately rolefish by hopping wagons like that. On the other hand, if the person being wagoned comes up more likely to be Town (regardless of claim), then going all the way and lynching them is a Bad Move. Also consider that I hardly said "oh Mariyta claimed let's unvote".

I see that last part, and I specifically noted it in my last post. You practically begged for someone else to claim VT alongside her. And now you're complaining that there are so many claims on the table? Sounds like cognitive dissonance to me.

I'm glad to see you making the effort, but you're pushing my three of my top Town reads as scum. You probably won't take it from me until after the game, but you probably could not be more wrong.

If I'm so wrong, would you mind explaining to me how and why?

[Uite]

VP Baltar has pretty much been on the same page as me for the past several pages now and consequently our votes have mostly been in the same places. If anyone is picking and driving the lynches here, it's us. Is this a good thing? Well, from my PoV and probably his,

yes

. There's a reason the me, him, and Troll were picked out as the most experienced people here on Page 1, and why we trust each others' judgment (well, me and VP Baltar anyway).

This is blatantly untrue. So far, VPB has voted for, in order: Zorblag, tanstalas, xvart, gandalf5188, tanstalas again, Exe, and finally Zorblag again. Your votes are first me, then Mariyta, and lastly Exe. The only time your votes aligned was after VPB joined the Exe wagon. Furthermore, his votes have been all over your declared reads as per post 341. At that time, he was voting for Tanstalas, of whom you said "I don't think I would seriously consider lynching anyone from Gaga Tier down Today, and neither should you." And you can't seriously claim you trust Zorblag's judgment in this game when you've got him in the Next Tier Down from Scum, and VPB is actually voting for him.

As for gandalf, you tell me how likely scum is to make this post.

I'd say scum are fairly likely to do that. In fact that post is part of why I originally got suspicious of Gandalf, and not only because of the blatant buddying.

[Uite]

Other than that, if you were reading the thread instead of reading the votes you would see that at the appropriate times I was also suspicious of tanstalas (the first time), xvart, and gandalf (somewhat). Those reads in 341 didn't get where they were on their own.

I know there is a history behing those reads, and that is why I didn't make a fuss about Mariyta. xvart was obviously scummy to you both, but you definitely did differ about Gandalf and Tanstalas, proving your original assertion of trusting each others' judgment wrong. I mean, while you were telling people not to vote for Tanstalas, while that was exactly what VPB was doing. As for Gandalf, if you were suspicious of him at the time VPB voted, you really didn't show it. You even commented later on that with "Yet I don't really think he's scum tbqh." Even less correct is your statement about how you were voting together, since you demonstrably weren't, except for Exe.

Why is it necessarily buddying?

How else would you explain it if you think the person doing it is scum, and you arrived at that conclusion independent of said person's positive comments?

With that said, I now have to question how you don't already know about the limitations of analyzing games by votes alone.

That's not even what I'm doing. I've only used voting patterns as a guide. Look at my actual argumentations, they contain more than just accounts of votes. Besides, this is only the second time I'm really looking at voting patterns, since it's not that useful when you're scum, and the first time I did it, I pretty much nailed both scumteams.

[Uite]

So, after rereading, VPB and especially Gandalf are still the scummiest players in the game independent of each other, but linking the two makes them even more scummy. I'd be fine lynching either of them, but that's probably not going to happen, which makes me sad.

[Uite]

Are your reads usually accurate?

I'd guess two out of three times they are, give or take.

[Uite]

I would ask Uite and the scum to have mercy and put their votes on people who are actually going to be lynched so we can get this over with.

As you said, neither Gandalf or I are going to be lynched today, so let's talk about people that are viable lynch candidates.

Maybe I'm just not pushing Gandalf hard enough. He only needs five more votes to be lynched. There really is a decent case to be made against the guy, taking into account the various things he's said and done, but I'm way too tired to do that now. I'm not very pleased with myself for that.

As for our two main wagons, I'm really not feeling a mothrax lynch. I don't think he's all that scummy, and the lurking, while unproductive, also doesn't give us much to work on after we lynch him, whatever the flip. An Exe lynch could be more useful, as I'm getting a minorly scummy vibe, and he's posted plenty to go on, but I'd really much rather lynch Gandalf, so unless there's deadline issues, my vote stays.

[Uite]

If Exe flips town, I'm certain there's at least one scum among the last three to pile on the wagon. That just went way too fast.

Crazy statistic for Day 1: nocase is the only player to not receive any votes at all.

[Uite]

I guess I was pretty wrong about Baltar. Sorry for that. I'm still thinking Gandalf is scum though. I'm also getting suspicious in inHim though. He really hasn't done anything at all to help us so far.

Anyway, now that Exe has flipped, I'll be looking for clues surrounding him first.

[Uite]

I guess I was pretty wrong about Baltar. Sorry for that. I'm still thinking Gandalf is scum though.

I'm also getting suspicious in inHim though. He really hasn't done anything at all to help us so far.

Anyway, now that Exe has flipped, I'll be looking for clues surrounding him first.

I think I'm working with outdated material with what is helpful, to be honest.

I dunno, actually hunting scum instead of dropping one-liners might be a good start.

[Uite]

@Vi:

You have quite a few posts that are exclusively you dealing with me. Seriously, it's 14 out of 88 posts, and it's even worse early on. If you count every post mentioning me, that figure doubles. What's up with that?

@Tanstalas:

Thanks for essentially restating a large part of my case on Gandalf, but you really went overboard trying to fish for the specific content of his role PM. I'm fairly convinced he's faking it though.

As an addition to the case though, how does this:

I think I know what Vi's getting at.

not imply that he's a powerrole in any way, contradicting his VT claim?

I actually just forgot about the question. That's what happens when you combine ADD with a strange propensity to read posts out of order. The way that he bothered to make it look like he had a case, but didn't go into any detail(crappy accusations with buzzwords like chainsaw defense are great too), makes it look like bussing more than pushing a mislynch, yes.

Ugh. You know which buzzword I hate most? Buzzword. It's always used as a very cheap way to try to discredit legitimate cases that happen to have some basis in established mafia theory.

VOTE: gandalf5166

Choose one of the following, and I'll make it happen:
VP Baltar makes a post related to the game.
VP Baltar controls my vote the rest of the day.

That's awesome, if true. I'd probably lean towards the latter. It seems to me like he could provide a lot more commentary through votes, especially regarding changing reads, if applicable. Would he be able to do multiple votes and/or unvotes per post, as a way of communicating?

[Uite]

Just checking in to announce that I'll be away for Christmas until at least the 26th.

[Uite]

Just realized, @Uite: You realize that Exe flipped scum, right?

Yeah, why do you ask?

@Zorblag:

Why did you choose nocase for your potion?

@inHim:

So would you mind actually sharing instead of just apologising?

The Tanstalas/Xvart scuffle is interesting, I'm fairly certain they're not both scum.

As for claims, inHim's ability seems decidedly pro-town, but the others' seem more neutral, in that they could go either way. Vi's claim actually made me somewhat suspicious by how he's claiming it makes him town. We'll see what happens at night though, because as far as I can tell, there's no actual protective role.

@Vi:

Awesome new avatar by the way.

[Uite]

I'm not sure what in inHim's claim makes you think he's Town though.

I'm not saying he's outright town, but his ability certainly is protown, since it lets dead townies, who are of confirmed alignment influence the game. Like we know VPB is good for sure, so having him around again is bound to help us more than scum.

[Uite]

@inHim:

I'm still somewhat confused about your role. Is it actually a daily or a one-shot ability? Do you pick among the dead players to summon or is that detemined by Ythill? Can you summon the same player over multiple days?

[Uite]

Werebeer

I love this concept when you say it like this. It's so...

exploitable

. *runs to setup design table*

I was hoping something like that would happen.

@Uite: It's a one-shot, one post deal, and nothing more. So is the vote control (though that persists through the whole Day). I get to pick who posts, but all the Ungrika ghosts can speak with the person I choose and help formulate the post.

I personally would like you to save this ability for tomorrow then, if Vi does die tonight and flips town I think it would be more beneficial to have input from three other townies.

This seems like a decent plan. The only catch is if inHim dies during the next migration, but that would bring its own share of problems.

[Uite]

My browser crashed earlier when I was composing a post. I don't really feel like doing it all again, so here are the highlights:

I'm not entirely getting this frenzy over xvart. Yes, he was scummy before, but you're treating it as if he claimed scum. I get that his actions were unfortunate, but I'm not seeing how it makes him scum.

As for the massclaim that's going on, I'm having a bit of trouble determining who claimed what. Can somebody give me a complete rundown? Also, who is next?

[Uite]

I think he's kinda scummy, but not scummy enough to lynch right off the bat. Like I said before, I'm getting the feeling that there's maybe one, but not two, scum among him and Tanstalas, based on the way they're interacting. I've had Tans as town for a while, so it's probably xvart, though it may be neither.

[Uite]

Definitely. I'm quite sure that Gandalf is scum and have been for some time, whereas I'm merely suspicious of xvart. Besides, a vote for xvart now would be the hammer, and Seraphim should have the time to catch up.

[Uite]

For everyone who's asking about the mechanics of inHim's role:

@Uite: It's a one-shot, one post deal, and nothing more. So is the vote control (though that persists through the whole Day). I get to pick who posts, but all the Ungrika ghosts can speak with the person I choose and help formulate the post.

Isn't that clear enough or something?

@Vi:

I concede that I'm not playing as well as I could. I've found it hard to focus on anything much lately, and right now, I'm mostly confused about this game. I should probably re-read again to get my bearings back.

[Uite]

Would you be offended if I don't take your word for it and start at the beginning of day 2?

What I also really don't get is that you're mildly speaking out against nocase and Seraphim's latest votes, while actually voting Mothrax yourself as well.

[Uite]

What I also really don't get is that you're mildly speaking out against nocase and Seraphim's latest votes, while actually voting Mothrax yourself as well.

Also, the sudden jump off xvart. You were basically asking me to hammer, and now you've pretty much backed off him. The parallels between the Mariyta wagon Day 1 are perplexing.

[Uite]

Also, the sudden jump off xvart. You were basically asking me to hammer, and now you've pretty much backed off him. The parallels between the Mariyta wagon Day 1 are perplexing.

If by "asking you to hammer" you mean "pointing out your terriscummy relationship with him", by "backed off him" you mean "unvoted him for someone better while stating that he is one of only three people I want to lynch", and by "perplexing" you mean that you don't have any solid ground for an accusation but wanted to throw something out, yes.

Allow me to explain:

And I'm to believe that gandalphim is a better vote than xvart right now?

Sounds like a call to vote to me.

As for the backing off part, between your unvote and my post you only mentioned him in #775, where you show doubt about him being scum, though perhaps my reaction was premature. And the parallels between the Mariyta affair really are there. To wit: You ask me to switch to the top wagon both times, which would ptretty much amount to a quicklynch. Yet very shortly after, you leave the wagon yourself to pursue another. I've commented on this before, and I think it's scummy. I'm very tempted to vote for you now, but I want to finish my reread and evaluate what's happened before doing something like that.

Also, I am kind of a dipshit and just rechecked my pms. I was torn between vi and mariyta and ended up rbing mariyta.

Others have pointed it out as well, but really this is bad. Mucho scumpoints for mothrax.

It shouldn't surprise anyone to hear that I'm slated to die Tonight, given that I was making no secret of being a power role. I also learned before the Day began that someone will die at nocase's hands (so to speak).

There's one last bit that I'll keep to myself for now.

This last bit is--I actually don't know that I was targeted, BUT
*I

do

know there will be no kill Tonight, and
*I'm one-shot NK-immune
so I just connected the dots. Given that nobody has claimed a protective role that they have used and xvart has claimed he can't Hide/Commute Tonight (and even if he could, unless he can submit actions in advance the mod would have no way of telling me if there would be a kill) I believe that I was correct in assuming that I'm the target.

So to a degree I was lying and I won't die Tonight. But I hope you can appreciate why. Until now, the scum had no way of knowing their kill would fail, and would have targeted someone else N2. Confirmed innocent found, and while I wasn't counting on a Doctor we can stop THAT kill too if that's what your beer is for. Now, if nothing else we can still do the latter.

How convenient. You know what would give the exact same result? Scum deciding not to kill anyone, and then exploiting that to create a fake semi-confirmed townie.

[Uite]

Er, hold on, perhaps I'm wrong and in fact I get to hammer xvart accidentally (though not regretfully.) It looks like we've got tanstalas, inHimshallibe, mothrax, Vi and Zorblag. If anyone has anything that needs to get said during twilight it might be good to say it (though if day one was an indication we might have a bit more time than in most games.)

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

Fuck, it seems you're right. I'll try to get my stuff out as soon as I can, but I'm not sure if I'll be able to get it in before nightfall. Otherwise, let's just hope I don't die tonight.

[Uite]

I'm not sure what I did to deserve three votes right off the bat, though I imagine not getting back to you all during twilight could have helped. Sorry about that. I literallly fell asleep while I was reading, and by the time I was fully awake again, the thread was just about to be locked.

last night i checked uite and found a . . . lol, did uite ever claim his role? i can't find it.

I'm curious as to what you found. My guess would be some kind of instrument, because I'm a

Minstrel

(VT). Yep, just like VPB, except that my role is female, whereas his was male.

If you blocked Uite and Uite is the last scum, then I shouldn't be dying Tonight.

This leads to one of two conclusions.

*Uite is scum WITH someone else (yes, 4 scum - not out of the question given the increasingly huge number of power roles being claimed relative to the weakness of the scum roles flipped so far)
*Uite is not scum, and someone else is (and has some whopper of a role)

The problem here is that there aren't many players left who CAN be scum.

It's the second option; you'll probably die tonight if you're telling the truth.

[Uite]

As far as I'm concerned, we've also ruled out nocase, inHimshallibe and Vi for now. Given that I know that I'm town that leaves tanstalas and Seraphim as the most likely scum suspects. I don't think that mothrax would have any reason to clear a townie like he's clearing Uite now so I highly doubt that he'd be our only remaining scum.

This makes a lot of sense, though I'm still a bit suspicious of Vi. Likewise, if i understand correctly, your role only makes sense if the other faction posseses a nightkill. Unless I'm mistaken, no-one has claimed a killing role so far, which would put you in the town camp as well. Indeed that leaves only Seraphim, Tanstalas and Mothrax. Mothrax is less likely because of his claimed block on me, and I think Tanstalas is less likely as well. Given that he was on Exe for the larger part of Day 1, and that known scum xvart was bussing, that makes me think that Tans wasn't bussing as well. Which brings me back to Seraphim.

VOTE: Seraphim

Take a good look at Gandalf's claim:

He claims a Beggar (VT), yet:

Lol. You can request flavor for a POWER ROLE. You already have flavor for your own role. WOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOOWOWOWOWOWOWO

Mariyta's scum, yup.

If he really had a VT PM, he would have known that he could request flavour for ANY role as per

[*]This is a

theme

game. Flavor has been included in role PMs. At a player’s request, I will provide original PM flavor for any role he wishes to claim. Vanilla Townie PMs might not be identical.

If you're a power role, you would have the flavor already. If not, it would tell you that you could request it. Good job outing yourself if you really are town.

I will confirm for you Vi, Mariyta is not lying about some roles saying you can put your own flavor in.

Just so you know, I'll be considering Uite confirmed town from here on out unless I get SIGNIFICANT evidence otherwise. He just "town-slipped", so to speak. I can't tell you why, unfortunately.

He already had outed himself. That's why I said i would be considering him confirmed town. Because scum would almost certainly be told that they could receive flavor. Town PRs not so much maybe.

This is interesting as well, since he's calling me a PR on what was essentially a VT softclaim, namely my assertion that Mariyta's claim was believable, which I made because it was so similar to my own role.

I also found this little gem from xvart on the subject:

I'm siding with Gandalf on this since I stick by my initial town read of him based on the daycop play and especially since he sort of challenged the reason I thought he was town. Regardless of whether or not scumGandalf would fake a daycop, I really don't think he would question a town read based off that as scum. So if he says Mariyta is not being truthful about the VT role then I'm rolling with that. But he is really trying my read by jumping ship on this wagon.

[Uite]

Which does leave tans and seraphim. Tanstalas has me a bit weary (see SSBB mafia with the epic double bus.)

Yeah, a double bus is of course a possibility, which would mean Tansscum. Rereading both players should shed more light on this, instead of me just properly posting a month old case.

[Uite]

Sorry guys, I don't have much for now. I will say that I agree with nocase that inHim should use an ability to prove his role sooner rather than later. Preferably the letting a dead player post, since it's probably the most useful and unambiguous.

2 out of 3 won't be bad

To me, this looks like all the world like he knows Seraphim is town. It's really making me second guess my town read on him. Still, Gandalf was hugely scummy as well, especially with the various connections people have pointed out now.

[Uite]

@Uite, if inHimshallibe ever fails to be able to demonstrate his claimed ability we'll be able to lynch him then. It'd be pretty shocking if that was the case but unless we think that extra insight is particularly helpful now (and I don't particuarly think that to be the case) it's better to hold onto it at this point. Also, when did you learn that you had the same role as VP Baltar? Upon his death?

Yeah, I saw it when he flipped. I knew that people were going to ask about it, since we haven't seen any other duplicate roles yet, so I pointed it out immediately myself. Our roles aren't exactly the same though; we seem to be of opposite gender, which matters for at least one claimed role.

In other news, in post #933 Seraphim continues his pattern of voting for anyone who seems a viable lynch that isn't him.

uite is not clear. he could be a godfather or i could be insane. intuitively, though, he looks town to me despite his reads.

How would that work though? Thieves don't really have sanity issues, do they? It'd be like stealing something from Captain Picard and getting a lightsaber. The item you got is consistent with my role, so why the worry?

[Uite]

point taken, uite, but that doesn't clear you of being a godfather type.

or musical scum.

That's true, and I guess it comes down to whether or not you trust me. The "blocked but a kill is happening anyway" argument seems like compelling evidence to me, but I'm not sure whether I'm the best to judge that, since I already know I'm clear, and have known since the start of the game.

[Uite]

The anticipation is killing me. This slot's been my main suspect for most of the game, and it's good to see him lynched. I really hope this means we've won the game.

[Uite]

The anticipation is killing me. This slot's been my main suspect for most of the game, and it's good to see him lynched. I really hope this means we've won the game.

And if not?

Since this turned out to be what happened, I feel pretty useless now. I was so sure that he was scum that I kinda neglected the other players, as I'm sure you've noticed. Anyway, I think the Mafia was on the Seraphim wagon as well, taking advantage of my fervour. Of course, the numbers being what they are, that's anybody but nocase. My best bet at this point is Tanstalas, but I don't dare to vote yet.

I feel confident we can get this eventually though. If Zorblag can really save someone, that means we have three lynches left to get the last scum. If not though, and there actually is a four man scumteam or a recruit or whatever, that means it's MyLo now. I doubt that, but it's possible.

[Uite]

Uite could very well be the last scum who really was blocked by mothrax, and Vi's role would die on Night 3 regardless. He now rises to the top of the list Today. I see no reason for scum to no-kill unless they couldn't; clearing Uite doesn't seem worth it.

What? This doesn't even make sense. What do you really mean by all this?

I rbd tans last night.

So if he's the scum, that means no kill tonight? Though I wonder, since kills are apparently delayed, does it still go through if the originator has been lynched?

[Uite]

Hold up just a sec, and follow the rest of my post. Read the flavor of the Night scene again. It points to no Servika making a kill, but of Vi dying of natural causes.

Personally, I think it's just that – flavour. Vi knew for a long time he was going to die, and the flavour reflects that. That's no reason to think that scum didn't kill him, though.

I know Vi can't respond to this, but I feel it's important for me to get this out. If anyone else want's to take a shot at it, feel free to do so.

As much as I would like Uite to DIAF, upon reconsideration he's probably more likely to be Town.
*While it was hinted that he had been investigated and had to claim his real role (thanks nocase), his minstrel claim lines up with what was expected earlier.
*There's still a chance that the roleblock works the way we thought before (we're still fuzzy on the mechanics of how it would work and the mod won't clarify).
*Post 203 was what gandalf called a "Town-slip" because he didn't consider mod-provided flavor. I don't have particular reason to believe he actually did or did not remember the mod-provided flavor, so etc. In 236, he said that his Role PM allowed him to request flavor (and this was a few posts before tanstalas said anything about it). Therefore if tanstalas is clear, Uite probably also has to be clear.

This is all true so what I don't understand is this:

All of us are pretty unanimous that Uite looks so overwhelmingly like scum that we would have a hard time faulting his lynch.~ 973 looks horrible.

I'm scum, yet I'm probably town?

I'm leaning more toward Uite for recruit because of how much his play suffered after early-mid D1, personally.

I can assure you that the drop in quality is not because of me being recruited. If you look at my other games, it's happened across the board since that point in time. I don't want to get into it too much, but it's likely the result of some real-life issues I've been having.

Yes, BWUH, this role is ridiculous.

No shit. I'm having a hard time believing it's for real. It's just too much.

Shoot Mothrax, if win yay, if not lynch Uite?

Granted if neither of them are scum then we lose because I have a bad feeling I'd be the lynch for tomorrow

This post is horrible. The AtE is noted, but what's worse is that you're setting up a lynch with

very

faulty logic. Consider this: if Mothrax is shot and he is scum, we win yay, but if he's not, that means that he really did block me, and I couldn't possibly have killed Vi, which pretty much confirms me as town. So lynching me then would be a demonstrably bad idea.

[Uite]

Well, I am blocked for tonight, so if not you or I for the lynch then who would you recommend if killing Mothrax doesn't end the game?

I'm not sure. You and Mothrax are my two biggest suspects at this point. I'm not entirely sure that inHim is trustworthy though.

@Uite - How many scum do you think are still in the game?

I answered this already. I think there's one scum left.

See, this makes me think you're town, whereas Uite's unwillingness to let PoE happen makes me think he's scum.

How am I unwilling to let PoE happen? Seriously, how have I said anything on the subject since we PoE'd Seraphim?

OK, so kill mothrax, lynch Troll, wait for Night to happen. If there's a kill, tanstalas and the remainder of I/nocase can lynch Uite. If there's not a kill, it's tanstalas.

Again with the faulty logic. If Tanstalas can be cleared on account of a block, why can't I? Going along with Tans's bad logic and contradicting yourself in the process, while making up stuff to accuse me isn't making you look good.

[Uite]

@Uite: My logic is not faulty - it is all based off of my interpretation of Vi's death, which I think is a very strong one. In my eyes, you thought your ticket to victory was written and now that we have a pretty solid plan to effectively guarantee a Town win (by PoE), you're starting to throw up muck every which way.

Please tell me what muck I am throwing up. I don't see it.

actually, i'm an idiot, but i do want to know the order of your top two scum reads, uite.

Tanstalas and Mothrax, in that order.

[Uite]

I GUESS we could quicklynch Uite, let mothrax live through migration, see if there's a nightkill, and then mothrax will die. Thoughts on this?

Seriously, why? If Mothrax is what he says he is, I'm cleared upon my flip, and if he's scum we probably end the game right there. This plan is like sewing me in a bag and throwing me into a pond.

[Uite]

Also, from your wording, you seem quite sure I'm town, so why do you want to lynch me at all?

[Uite]

UITE, NO I DON'T NECESSARILY THINK YOU'RE CLEARED IF MOTHRAX FLIPS TOWN. I've been through this with you and we're both planted firmly on either side of the debate.

And those plans are all contingencies, so I have to think you could be Town in some of the scenarios.

Yeah, we've been over this already. Still, the fact remains that you're basing the possibility that I'm scum entirely on the Night 3 kill flavour. You haven't brought forward any arguments as to why I'm scum, yet you still want to lynch me at all costs. Seriously, I'm starting to think we're dealing with a Godfather-type role here.

[Uite]

Ah, there's the true problem. You're just upset I haven't given you anything to try and work with, but instead have simply decreed your death. Game sucks sometime when you get backed into a corner with the setup.

No, the real problem is that I'm getting lynched when there's obviously no basis to do so, and general opinion (i.e. pretty much anyone who isn't you) has me as town for several reasons.

[Uite]

Actually, the more I'm thinking about it, the more I'm convinced that the remaining scum has to lie between Zorblag and inHimshallibe. Consider this: both roles can cause extra deaths, and if both are town, that means that the earliest we could have won was at the start of Day 2. That's kinda ridiculous, and massively unfair to scum, who have to kill off six of us before they can win, assuming a three-man scumteam. That's why I'm thinking that one of these two roles has to be scum-aligned. There's a case to be made for both players, and I'm not sure yet which is the most likely. For Zorblag, this stems more from analysis of his role. His extra kill goes through an intermediate player, who can only be town, which is a limiting factor is he's scum, but has investigative use if he is town. On the other hand, the curse removal seems designed to counteract inHim's killing ability, which would greatly increase scum survivability if Zorblag, but not inHim is scum.

As for inHimshallibe, the case is more rooted in his behaviour. Pretty much the only pro-town thing he's done so far is letting Vi speak again. Besides that, I'm not seeing anything that points to him being town except for the clan seal. What I am seeing however, is almost the definition of active lurking. Especially Day 1, he didn't contribute anything of note, and Day 2 isn't much better. Add to that that he's desperately trying to get an obvious townie lynched, and is possibly causing the death of another. Consider also that his reasoning is very shoddy, basing "evidence" on flavour, and just plain making stuff up, and it's not hard to see how this guy could be scum.

Your death will not be in vain.

I see that it could clear or condemn Tanstalas on account of Mothrax's flip, but you don't need me specifically for that. Lynching a player with an actual potential for being scum would be a lot better for that. I'm thinking Zorblag or yourself makes a good candidate.

By the way, if tonight there's a kill and it again has an unusual flavour does that mean that Tanstalas won't be cleared either? That would just mean you killed off three townies in one stroke, which isn't anything but scum play.

[Uite]

@Uite: IF the kill flavor comes back weird, it'll be because YOU have flipped town, mothrax has survived through the migration phase to block tanstalas, and we'll be all the wiser about how to approach things then. I can accept letting you live in place of Zorblag's death.

Uhh, what? That really doesn't answer my question.

am i the only one who's thinking inhimshallibe and zorblag shouldn't be on the same side?

If you read my previous post, that's pretty much what I'm thinking right now.

Let's kill Zorblag then. If he can brew up a werewolf, he can brew up the flu. I'm running through every possible scenario right now...

So what was that argument about flavour again?

[Uite]

I'm having a bit of trouble determining what the best timing and the best candidate for the lynch is. I'm thinking that a lynch before the curse runs it's course is most advantageous, but I'm not sure. Let me run through the possibilities.

• If Zorblag is the scum and we lynch him now, yay us and we've probably won. If he's not, inHim seems like a good place to look.
  
• If Tanstalas is the scum he's blocked, and we won't have a death tonight, which is also good. If we lynch him we'll know without a doubt, and maybe the curse can still be redirected before the day ends in case it's necessary?
  
• If Mothrax is the scum, he'll simply die anyway, which would be good. If we decide to lynch him instead, another player can be cursed instead.
  
• If inHimshallibe is the scum, we really need to lynch him, but it can be either today or tomorrow Does the curse still work if he's dead though?.
  
• If nocase is scum, Zorblag pretty much has to be his partner, or his story doesn't make any sense. Also, would xvart fakeclaim thief if he knew there was another in the team? Unlikely.

Okay, considering all that, a Zorblag lynch before the curse hits seems like the best option, though Of course, if both the curse and the lynch don't hit scum, tomorrow is LyLo in case of a three man scumteam. If there are four scum however, we're screwed, and we lose pretty much instantly.

[Uite]

What if we no-lynch? Worst case, someone dies tonight, which means Tanstalas is town, which leaves Mothrax, Zorblag and inHim as possible suspects for tomorrow. If one of those three is the target, we can win by simple PoE even with a two man scumteam, otherwise it's plain old LyLo tomorrow in case of two scum left.

If no-one dies, Mothrax is pretty much cleared, and we lynch Tanstalas. The curse can still be called off in that case, right? Anyway, that would leave just inHim and Zorblag as possible scum if there's a fourth. Plenty of time to lynch both as well.

[Uite]

Of course, with two scum left, Tanstalas isn't exactly cleared in case of a death, because even if he's scum, he isn't necessarily the one to send in the kill. Same thing goes for me, unfortunately.

[Uite]

Okay, let's do this.

VOTE: Zorblag

If he does turn out not to be scum, it's Tans or inHim tomorrow, depending on whether there's a kill or not.

@Tanstalas:

Why is your vote still on me?

[Uite]

Ok, so Zorblag makes some really good points about why inHim is much more likely scum than he is. On the other hand, if he really is, well played.

UNVOTE: Zorblag

@Uite, given that inHimshallibe's curse would have gone off if he'd been killed it would be pretty shocking if he had to be alive for it to continue working. I'm also not quite sure why you think that it would be better to lynch me before a mothrax flip based on the scenarios you went through.

In the end, I think the possible scum block is worth more than knowing Mothrax's alignment, especially if he's going to die anyway.

@nocase:

It doesn't seem likely to me that Vi is actually some traitor-type role. For one, wouldn't he have total knowledge of the scumteam if that were the case? So why does the third scum still elude us then, if he has the knowledge?

so why not forgive mothrax and reapply to zorblag, and then LOLOL we lynch you.

This seems like a decent plan, just to make sure.

If I was scum with nocase I should have hammered Uite for the win earlier today (or nocase should have hammered Uite for the win.)

@nocase, if I was scum with mothrax or inHimshallibe I should have hammered Uite for the win.

This raises a good point. There have been two L-1 wagons today, and assuming it's mylo, scum would hammer immediately if they had the chance. My wagon clears both nocase and Zorblag. Zorblag's wagon would clear mothrax and tanstalas. This leaves only me and inHimshallibe. Knowing I'm town, this seemingly rules out a two man scumteam, and is more evidence of him being scum. I feel comfortable putting him at L-1 now.

VOTE: inHimshallibe

@Mod:

Since Mothrax's death would put the lynch threshold at three, would the lynch automatically take place if the curse takes effect and someone had three votes on them?

[Uite]

Damn. Shouldn't have switched yesterday. inHim really was extremely tempting. Though the no reveal on Mothrax made it somewhat harder, I still probably would have gone for the claimed PR, i.e. Zorblag. Unless he could convince me otherwise, which he probably would. Argh.

Well played.

[Uite]

More comments.

The setup was good, made for an enjoyable game, though I sadly didn't play at my usual level. The only thing I would maybe want to change are the two JoaTs. Four abilities each seems a bit overpowered, and I think three would have been better.

Also, I'd like to appeal the scum win on a technicality.

Love: This potion causes its target to fall in love with a member of the opposite sex. The target becomes incapable of voting for the first person of the opposite sex he or she quotes or addresses by name. The effect lasts for one encampment phase.

So.. Troll or Uite.. hmm

Gut says Uite

The first person of the opposite sex he quoted or addressed

by name

is me. Troll is a nickname, and his true name is Zorblag. I know I'm nitpicking, but this issue has a long history in folk magic, which I assume would be relevant here. One has power over a thing when they speak it's true name, which is why some cultures have dual naming system with a true name and a nickname precisely to deflect this kind of magic.

[Uite]

Thanks for modding Ythill. I really appreciated all the effort you put into the setup and the flavor. I hope I get to play in more of your games in the future.

I forgot this.

Thirded.

N'th

+1

Okay, let's do this.

VOTE: Zorblag

If he does turn out not to be scum, it's Tans or inHim tomorrow, depending on whether there's a kill or not.

@Tanstalas:

Why is your vote still on me?

Holy hell I don't think I processed that this was L-1.

I would've given you double-vote and this would have been ovah. Wow, I really missed this.

D'oh! I don't think Zorblag played bad at all, but seeing how often he came that close to losing... Wow.

[Uite]

One has power over a thing when they speak it's true name, which is why some cultures have dual naming system with a true name and a nickname precisely to deflect this kind of magic.

This has got to be the most well-reasoned post-game whining I've ever seen. To your credit, Zorb wasn't sure it counted until I said so. Another judgment call from me but I think I made the right one.

This is actually something I personally feel very strongly about. I almost always avoid using nicknames, though I will at times abbreviate. Reading my iso this game will back that up; I've virtually always referred to him as Zorblag, with only one exception. I won't dispute your ruling, but it does taste somewhat sour.

This didn't help either:

@Vi:

Been dying to say this. The crone could have been exploited to give you day-long, two-way communication if the two of you had used your one post to establish the manner by which you planned to use vote-movement to communicate. Judging by the comments in this QT, it might have have allowed the town to avoid the inHim lynch.

That's awesome, if true. I'd probably lean towards the latter. It seems to me like he could provide a lot more commentary through votes, especially regarding changing reads, if applicable. Would he be able to do multiple votes and/or unvotes per post, as a way of communicating?