Mini 1090: Of Rogues and Curses ~ Game Over

[Mariyta]

VOTE: gandalf because it's always fun to vote gandalf.

[Mariyta]

vote: zorblag.

Seriously?

[Mariyta]

vote: zorblag.

Seriously?

The real question is why YOU aren't voting Zorblag yet. Are you deciding whether bussing D1 is acceptable in your QT?

I suppose you're an unlynchable, un-NKable mason as well, right?

@zorblag: Go read LotR. Just finished not too long ago. He claimed right off the bat, set the who town into a tizzy, then eventually got himself vigged. He's really quite fun to play with.

[Mariyta]

vote: zorblag.

Seriously?

elaborate for pizza.

See my response to Zorblag. I prefer Hawaiian w/ hot sauce, kthxbye.

[Mariyta]

@nocase: Because you voted 6 minutes after gandalf's "claim" and gave no indication to the contrary.

[Mariyta]

Please see my last post.

[Mariyta]

I'm kind of confused about what I'm making nothing out of. Aside from thinking gandalf is full of it and wondering if nocase was seriously voting based on his claim, I haven't really said a whole lot.

[Mariyta]

It wasn't a defense.

[Mariyta]

UNVOTE: gandalf

Tans is acting the same way he did the last game I was in with him. He was town then and made us waste a crucial lynch.

Fake DK was a pretty obvious joke, but unnecessary. Fake DKs are always in bad taste, IMO.

[Mariyta]

@Exe: I don't really have any opinion on anyone at this point. I'm having a hard time following this game and I can't get a read on anyone. I hate inHim's voting w/o a reason, but he does that all the time. Tans is being Tans, gandalf is being gandalf.

Maybe I'll feel more cooperative tomorrow if my unwanted houseguest gets the eff out. Doubtful, since she doesn't give a shit about what I want unless it fits into her little self-centered world.

[Mariyta]

Apologies for the previous outburst. I will do a re-read tomorrow.

@xvart: Can't remember if tans was D1 or D2. There was so much shoddy play in that game, it's all a blur. I unvoted gandalf because my intial vote (which came before his claim) was simply random (actually based off his play in LotR, so it's entertaining that he then went and did the same thing here). My unvote has nothing to do with nocase. I think nocase did vote based on gandalf's claim; whether he believed the claim or just wanted to wagon is another matter. And yes, I was talking about gandalf in that quote. In LotR, he threw the entire town in an uproar for several pages and eventually got himself vigged. It was fun to watch.

Ftr, I never said Tans was town. I just said he's acting the same way he did the last game we played in, in which he turned up town. I've yet to form an opinion on him in this game.

[Mariyta]

ITT, xvart is also scum. xvart's new name is Flavio to go along with being scum with Mariyta.

Do your reads always suck this bad? Or is this just a special game?

[Mariyta]

Because he is.

[Mariyta]

Tans' (non-existant) case on Exe is just awful. I don't like Exe, but I still think he's likely town.

VOTE: Tans

P-edit: inHim doesn't post much that's meaningful. He's a guerrilla poster. He comes on, makes quick, short posts with little content, and disappears into the night.

[Mariyta]

@Mariyta, how strong do you expect cases from tanstalas to be as town?

I expect him to post strong cases. Will I get them (as either town or scum)? Probably not.

[Mariyta]

@gandalf: You are correct. That is what I meant.

@Mariyta, yeah, let me rephrase that. Is making weak cases a scum tell for tanstalas? And in particular is it really the scummiest thing that's happened thus far this game?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

I don't know. I've only played with him the once, and he got himself lynched pretty quick. I haven't re-read yet, so I can't really answer question #2. I wasn't paying a lot of attention the first couple pages (yes, I know, I deserve to be crucified for that, blah, blah).

inHim, stop making it seem like I'm just being a bitch. Do you deny that you have a tendency to come in, make short little accusatory posts, then go AWOL for a bit? Cause if you do, I'll gladly go find recent examples, both scum and town examples.

@xvart: Your posts are logical and solid. You seem to care about actually finding scum. To me, that says you're town.

[Mariyta]

Ah, but nocase never really opened up the floor for discussion. And here you come along and try to turn nocase's view of me sour. That's not playing very town-like.

Translation: Be a good girl and only speak when spoken to.

[Mariyta]

4 ~ Mariyta (Vi, inHimshallibe, Zorblag, gandalf5166)

There be scum on this wagon!

$20 on gandalf
Reasons:
A1) his vote on Mariyta is pure 100% hipocracy: He claims she has done nothing of note other than complain about his fakeclaim (not disputing that), yet if you look at his iso, 8 of 14 posts are about his fake claim.
B2) The rest of his posts are throwing out suspicions of 4 different players yet doing nothing to back them up. Town make cases as to why someone is scum, not just sit there and say "Person A is scum" and ride the wagon. Hell, even nocase has presented more of a case at this point.
C3) When voting Mariyta, he admits to blatant bandwagoning... check his post right before his vote, he litterally says "I'm going to see if this case has any merit" and jumps on the wagon.

therefor:

Unvote; Vote: gandalf5166

Mod edit: Fixed the quote tag.

This are all gandalf-town play, from my limited experience with him.

Whoops. Sorry. Didn't mean to speak out of turn.

[Mariyta]

I think nocase did vote based on gandalf's claim; whether he believed the claim or just wanted to wagon is another matter

I can't tell if this is just town tunneling on something completely terrible or if it's scum clutching to what little argument they've made in the game.

How is this tunneling? I was asked about it, so I answered.

Do your reads always suck this bad? Or is this just a special game?

que? You actually do need to give a reason for this read, because I don't really see anything town from xvart at this point.

Already did.

[Mariyta]

I'm not going to quote all his posts. Go read them. He's made 3. The first one has nothing of value in it, but the last two are fine. He makes some valid points and asks some good questions.

[Mariyta]

Apparently never.

[Mariyta]

mothrax-Zorblag team seeming more and more likely... Hmm, are they partners with Mariyta, though.

Claimense, chica.

Vanilla. Juggler.

[Mariyta]

Because he comes across as town to me. You don't have to agree.

[Mariyta]

I didn't intend post 123 to come across that extreme, but I was irritated (and I still am). I don't

know

xvart is town, but it's an educated guess based on what I know of him.

[Mariyta]

Mariyta's play is horrible

I completely agree.

[Mariyta]

I've answered the questions. They just don't like my answers.

[Mariyta]

Mariyta's play is horrible, but the claim is halfway believable with the flavour.

Worth mentioning: The rules specify that fake flavor can be produced on command (General Rule #9). Granted, saying this means that I'm on drugs (General Rule #2).

I don't have any flavor, so I can't give you any. I'm just a juggler-VT.

I'll grant that Mariyta actually has answered the question beyond "He just is". Question, though. A couple of posts ago I mentioned why specifically nobody except you thinks xvart is Town. Do you have a similar response to that that would show why he is?

No, I do not have a similar response. I just feel his play matches what I've seen of him as town (well, neutral playing with town).

@gandalf: When did I ever pull the newbie card? I also think it's funny that you want a pass because you're "providing more content than normal."

[Mariyta]

the only thing that puzzles me is that i'd think mariyta-scum would request flavor, as ythill permits it (general rules, 9). lazy scum is the only explanation the way i see it. or mariyta pulled a nocase and liberally skimmed the rules, which WOULD ALSO MEAN LAZY SCUM SINCE THIS HAS BEEN ADVERTISED AS A HEAVILY THEMED GAME

LO

LOLO

LOL

OLOLO

. . .

The PM said I could request flavor. I didn't see a point. I don't need it for anything.

[Mariyta]

Since I'm not scum, I wasn't thinking that way...

[Mariyta]

Nothing of note. Just the daughter of the Ungrika clan and working as a juggler stuff.

[Mariyta]

Why does it matter who hammers? The only people I've ever seen be so concerned about claiming the hammer were scum... and Fate, but he doesn't count.

[Mariyta]

In fact, in quite a few of your posts, you seem to think Mothrax is more scummy, yet you claim the hammer on me? Why?

Mothrax gains scumbuddy points if Mariyta is scum for trying to blatantly derail the mariyta wagon.

And what does he gain when I flip town?

Oh, and I'm a female. Hence the Gender:Female under my name.

@nocase: I would think that stuff would be pretty easy to fake, so it doesn't really offer anything in the way of my defense.

[Mariyta]

The PM said I could request flavor. I didn't see a point. I don't need it for anything.

funny because i'm town and my pm doesn't say that.

If you're a power role, you would have the flavor already. If not, it would tell you that you could request it. Good job outing yourself if you really are town.

we're lynching mariyta.

Go for it. Then you'll know I'm town and you guys can lynch Scummy McScumface (AKA: Exe) tomorrow.

[Mariyta]

This is pointless, but UNVOTE: Tans; VOTE: Exe

[Mariyta]

If you're a power role, you would have the flavor already. If not, it would tell you that you could request it. Good job outing yourself if you really are town.

nope, i have flavor. i'm not outing whether or not i'm vt or pr, though, but good try.

You don't need to. Declaring you have flavor is essentially declaring yourself a power role. VTs don't have flavor to that extent.

[Mariyta]

Unvote.

Maritya's stupid "I have no flavor," really seems like a VI mistake after actually claiming flavor a few posts later. Next time, just pay attention please?

VI is not applicable here.

[Mariyta]

I already answered that, and it doesn't make me a VI. VIs play consistently bad. I'm having a bad game, yes. But until I play this shitty in multiple games, you have no right to call me a VI.

[Mariyta]

Stop talking to me like I'm stupid. I know what flavor is. I already explained why I didn't post it to begin with. If you don't like it, then shut the hell up and lynch me.

[Mariyta]

@Vi: My PM.

@VP: Yes, I understand your point. The flavor I have is what I assume everyone has. Much of it is just a repeat of the first post. Then it tells me I can vote, yada, yada, and I can receive additional flavor if I wish.

[Mariyta]

Yes. Though I guess not everyone would have the daughter and juggler bits.

[Mariyta]

I don't understand xvart's latest post. First, there's no reason gandalf and I can't have the same role, especially since we're both claiming vanilla. There is not typically only one vanilla in a game. Second, clearly xvart doesn't have a VT PM, as he doesn't understand what's in it. Gandalf does (though I'm assuming he has something about being a son rather than a daughter, as well as his VT role). Then there's this:

I'm siding with Gandalf

on this since I stick by my initial town read of him based on the daycop play and especially since he sort of challenged the reason I thought he was town. Regardless of whether or not scumGandalf would fake a daycop, I really don't think he would question a town read based off that as scum. So

if he says Mariyta is not being truthful

about the VT role then I'm rolling with that.

But he is really trying my read by jumping ship on this wagon.

You're not siding with gandalf. You're siding with gandalf's initial read, and using him as your excuse. Now I'm questioning my initial read on you.

@VP: I'll post the case later today for Exe. I have a couple other cases to post in other games, too. I'm also going to do an ISO of xvart...

[Mariyta]

Did a quick skim of what's happened since yesterday. I believe Gandalf is a VT.

My life has taken an unexpected turn and internet access is limited. I can hopefully check in daily and I will do my best to get you the cases I promised (maybe tomorrow or Friday).

[Mariyta]

Yes

Yes, as in when game is over and we find out you three were the scum and I caught you all on Day 1 you will nominate me for the "Paragon of Mafia Hunters" Award?

sigh, maybe inHim is right. Are you really this bad at mafia?

I can answer this. Yes.

[Mariyta]

My experience w/ him was in Random Mafia 2. He was lynched fairly quickly, if I remember right, after playing horribly scummy.

[Mariyta]

Exe: The first thing that I don't like, though it's not scummy per se, is the complaint that some people had suspicions but weren't voting. There's nothing wrong with not placing a vote if you're not certain. I also disagree that it's scummy to have trouble reading a game at the beginning. Sometimes it's just hard to get a feel for the game, especially when you're playing with a bunch of new people. Tries to link me and Morthrax despite the fact that I'm not dead yet (pre-flip links are useless at best).

Uite's vote of Xvart makes sense, however I don't really feel as though the claim was saving enough to deserve an unvote of Mariyta, based on his previous attitude. Worth noting if Mariyta ultimately flips scum.

But then he goes and votes my "scum buddy" Mothrax instead of sticking w/ me and says he would have "no problem hammering" if my wagon picked up again. This is where I started to get suspicious of him. Aside from Fate, I don't think I've ever played with a townie who claimed the hammer. It seems to come mostly from scum. Then he backs off again and starts calling me a VI, which pisses me off, but isn't necessarily scummy. Just a-holeish.

So in summary, I think Exe is scum based on his constant flip-flopping between me and Mothrax, the fact that he keeps linking us (I still don't understand why) and because he was so adamant about hammering me (while voting Mothrax).

Going to try to do xvart ISO now.

[Mariyta]

Xvart: Did you misread and think I cast my vote on gandalf

after

his claim?
I don't understand his case on Uite. But his last post is the one that's really scummy. I've already pointed out the super scummy parts to it, but the whole thing is just bad.

[Mariyta]

@Exe: Just because my opinions happen to align w/ someone else's, it doesn't mean I'm parroting them. If Mothrax's motivation is not pro-town, it has nothing to do with me. Being cautious isn't a scum-tell...

@inHim: Then lynch me. Nothing is stopping you.

@Zorblag: As I haven't had an opportunity to really re-read, yes, those are currently the only two I'm suspicious of. I should have a solid chunk of time tomorrow,though.

[Mariyta]

A slow start isn't ideal but it's not a huge scum tell. What's more of an issue for me with Mariyta's play is that she's largely reacting to what people say for most of the early game (past the questioning of Nocase's reaction to gandalf5166) rather than making an effort. She's got a strong, surprising reaction to xvart's entrance to the game that I don't understand (and which has now changed to a more reasonable reaction I think) but I just don't feel like she cares about finding scum until after she's made her claim. Even then it's a bit reactive (though I'll wait to see what else she has to say after her last replay to me.)

This is entirely accurate. As I've already acknowledged, my play was (and possibly still is) horrible. I have no excuse, aside from just being cranky. My play is currently reactive because I only get internet access about once a day for a short period due to circumstances that are mostly out of my control.

@Vi: I think you're talking about my #13. If that's the case, I'm honestly not sure. I guess at the time, he appeared town. His talk of the hammer is what made me look back at him.

@Zorblag: I don't recall ever bussing. Here's the last game I remember being scum in. WoMafia

[Mariyta]

Xvart is definitely scummier than Exe right now (though I still think Exe could very well be scum).

UNVOTE: Exe, VOTE: xvart

[Mariyta]

Exe, I suggest you claim. Xvart has been more useful than you lately (though he's still scum) and my vote is just itching to switch to you.

[Mariyta]

That came pretty close to quoting...

Some of it matches very closely with what I have, so I'll keep my vote where it is for now.

[Mariyta]

I don't understand how I'm still the only one voting xvart. Just look at his posts, people. Especially his most recent, where he came late to the Exe wagon and tried to keep it rolling. Many people have expressed suspicion of him, yet no one is following through. He's clearly our best choice for today.

[Mariyta]

@Vi: Yes, it was mostly due to the claim. I wasn't certain enough that he was scum to vote him after that. Also, once xvart voted him, it was a point in Exe's favor.

@whoever said I took gandalf seriously: Please point out where I ever took the claim seriously. I thought he was full of it from day 1 and I'm pretty sure I made that clear.

[Mariyta]

Well, apparently no one wants to lynch xvart, despite so many people finding him scummy. I guess Exe will have to do. I did a re-read of him and while I'm not sure about his claim, he still seems scummy.

UNVOTE: xvart
VOTE: Exe L-1

[Mariyta]

Don't forget, xvart is scum. However, I like the inHim wagon, too.
VOTE: inHim

[Mariyta]

Okay, what it actually says is that at request, he will provide me with a flavor line for a power role of my choosing. Remind me how the hell it matters? And how it means I'm bad at reading comprehension?

@Mariyta - Does your PM say you can request a flavor line for a POWER role? (keyword is "FOR" a power role) Or does it just say "for a role"

I will say that gandalf's claim matches very close to what I know about mine and getting into whether one word is there or not is heading into modkill territory. I believe gandalf is what he says he is. I think it's time you turn your attention elsewhere.

@nocase: I wasn't hiding. Please read the sig.

I'm interested to see inHim's ability. I like the post by VP idea, and Vi's role sounds too convoluted for scum to make up on their own. So those who are most likely scum are xvart (no surprise there) and mothrax. Uite gets a meh read from me, as well.

UNVOTE: inHim
VOTE: xvart

[Mariyta]

*headdesk* That is all.

[Mariyta]

Thanks for modding Ythill. I really appreciated all the effort you put into the setup and the flavor. I hope I get to play in more of your games in the future.

I forgot this.

Thirded.

[Mariyta]

On another note, the inability of dead QT denizens to sympathize with live townies, especially toward the latter stages of the game, never ceases to amuse.

Well, in fairness, we didn't know for sure who the scum was. We just were damn sure it

was

wasn't

inHim because of his ability.

I fixed it for you!