Mini 1080 -- txtMafia -- Game OVER

[Vi]

At this time to some degree he's an easy target, and I wanted to watch for reactions. Fonz jumped in spite of not liking the AH wagon.

[Vi]

Not sure where RF's vote is either given 2144.
While WW lynch is not bad I'm not optimistic about it.

[Vi]

RF wagon is kind of kind of and ATM I don't pref. to WW.
Fish wagon is dubious for some of same reasons as AH wagon.
No other options AFAIK.

[Vi]

Out for most of today (last of "limited access this week") - I don't expect it to mean much but

Unvote: RayFrost

[Vi]

H2174 - What part of "Kast wagon is not viable" (2161) is confusing you?

[Vi]

Conclusion of 2179 does not match what H said in 2176 re: Kscum.

[Vi]

H2186 - We have 22 hours, and Kast has weekend V/LA. I want a Kast lynch but I don't (ctd)

[Vi]

want it enough to force it down at the last minute with no claim and IIRC relatively little prior opinion on Kast given by others.

[Vi]

Also Fonz 2170 - You went from AH-notlikelyscum to being annoyed with a lack of WW claim (implying want to lynch). Was it that big?

[Vi]

Agreeing with 2203 and 2211. Don't think potential for PR/doubts about AHflake weight more than present/future RFposting.

5 hours.

Vote: werewolf

(L-1)

[Vi]

I'm more angered than confused tbh.

Fonz, I take it you plan on lynching Today given prob. MyLo?

[Vi]

Not necessarily, but.
NL is best if Town PRs hiding OR no obv. beneficial Townies to free-kill.

[Vi]

Given Kast kill, I question if scum are out to kill people on right track or obvTown.
It's worth considering at least. (I think, never done this outside F&E)

[Vi]

The decision needs to be made prior to any discussion ofc. It can be as easy as

Vote: No Lynch

or "Pass"
and seeing if that gets a majority.

[Vi]

Aaaaand the discussion begins. :emote:

H: 11th Hour is nothing like this game. Or most others.

[Vi]

RF's 2254 isn't quite correct. Senselessly wasting an obvious NK target w/NL is senseless.

[Vi]

Even-player buffer w/12 players exists in case of emergency No Lynch, Vig, Doc protect, anything that could put us back to odd numbers.

[Vi]

-snip- Last post in sequence prob. shouldn't be posted. :oops:

[Vi]

Actually, rethinking what I said earlier.

Unvote: No Lynch

[Vi]

Lynch is pref. with killing/prot. roles.
Info roles can be at advantage w/NL but extra Night may not be worth risk.

[Vi]

No obvkill may just be from my perspective.

---

MC, then. Ready whenever.

[Vi]

I hate organizing MCs and would rather just get them over with, so I may not be the best person to answer.

General idea is claiming in reverse order of popular suspicion.

[Vi]

If we have an info role, it's prob. better for them to claim Today.
Also whoever they kill at Night will be in their own interest, with our gains questionable.

[Vi]

*Only if they don't die overNight.
*Scum-directed kills generally don't help Town.

[Vi]

AV-See why I leave this to other people? :emote:

I see what Tasky wants to do but I think Fonz has right of it.

[Vi]

pap-rat and chamber are both fine. tbh I would rather this get going.
Related: V/LA this weekend.

[Vi]

Who's next, pap-rat?

[Vi]

V. Town as always.

Fonz please.

[Vi]

I see process of elimination about to go to work.~

[Vi]

Although Fonz, are you still planning on NL?

[Vi]

Even if we lynch WRONG the Vig still has a free shot.

Cut: As I said before. There's only one Town among the red.

[Vi]

And if AV is Vig we're p.much guaranteed to hit scum no matter what.

[Vi]

I keep getting cut by Fonz saying what I want...
chamber - Why make AV semiclaim first D2 instead of making him claim under threat of lynch?

[Vi]

(This Q in particular comes because I prev. saw it as too bold for scum; this is my obstacle to easy PoE as Tasky is p.much Town IMO)

[Vi]

Fonz - Is chamber scum?

[Vi]

2369 - Why are H's inv.s bad? They make obvsense.
2370 - The harm seems self-evident, esp in risk/reward: Out Town PR vs. win your vote.

[Vi]

2391 is lol given chamber hammered WW D2.

[Vi]

But you could have lynched no one at all.

[Vi]

2441 - How would you have pulled off an NL and NOT looked sketch?
Also technically it's

better

if not sure to NL at even numbers.

[Vi]

2442 - The reason I ask
If T is Town then either you or AV have to be scum for c to potentially NOT be scum.

[Vi]

IMO chamber is getting hit from too many sides for a scumspiracy.
2444 is self-evidently lol.

[Vi]

Somewhat offended by "AH was lynched for no reason" - esp. considering Fonz himself wanted WW to die IIRC.

[Vi]

You were, BUT you also wanted a claim and called his entry post absurdly scummy.

[Vi]

Okay going three- and potentially four-way is going to get confusing REALLY quickly. :emote:

[Vi]

2467 - So you encouraged the WW wagon but kept vote on RF... why
Important because you demanded credit for not being on WW.

[Vi]

Page 100 steal!

[Vi]

Now that that's over.
Fonz - Why stick with RF?

[Vi]

This isn't going to turn into a zen koan or something, is it?
Why was RF the better wagon?

[Vi]

2496 - Didn't I just post a pic that explains that? :emote:
I'm cutting into you because you're a blind spot.

[Vi]

I was sus. of you before, and to a degree that still hasn't resolved.
BUT, if you're Town and AV is Town (which I'm willing to buy)

[Vi]

then the scum are clearly in the reds, and at risk of sounding repetitive T is the one I'd call Town.
So in short, you-Town->we win.

[Vi]

In that case it barely matters who gets lynched. Hedging bets would place chamber on top largely for Cophunting and general flailing D3.

[Vi]

Not particularly interested in scum+wagon meta simply because it's something I have little experience with.

2504 is ?

[Vi]

I can only try to get access this weekend+Monday, so etc.

[Vi]

ch2519 is mostly due to SIFOM. See last post, though.
T2523 - Not necessarily true as evidenced by "at least".

[Vi]

TF2532 - What part of "these wagons are not viable at deadline" do you not understand?
Tasky - Enough. Why Vi+AV?

[Vi]

TF2581 is REALLY grating, because I'm p.sure I've said the opposite a few DOZEN times now. Conv., you didn't list my vote or reasons in desc. AH wagon as crap.

[Vi]

Becoming inclined to buy that TF is arguing via repetition.
Of

course

RF isn't going to buy your arguments that he's scum; I've been saying as much for a while.

[Vi]

Conclusion: 2 reds+Fonz.
However, note that p_r has two votes and has for a while. Two others posted since then. No quickhammer.

[Vi]

The aforementioned two others ALSO happen to be the people I'd consider possible scum if pap-rat is Town. (Fonz+RF vs. H+AV)

[Vi]

So you may as well consider my vote on him. I'll sort out the rest later.

[Vi]

Not willing to oblige RF's request due to space constraints and general over-hypo-ing.

[Vi]

Well exc00s me for sleep.
2610 - Scum In Front Of Me. aka clear and present
2612 - Yes

[Vi]

I'm willing to save my issues with Fonz for later. I don't like gaming the mod, but Fonz isn't getting lynched Today anyway.
H2679 - Curious why "GFish".

[Vi]

2689 isn't really true. p_r is scum because two people are voting him and he's not dead yet. Mostly waiting on H before voting.

[Vi]

So... what

[Vi]

2710-The first.
2711-OH what. I thought there were only four needed to lynch :oops:

[Vi]

That should answer p_r's objections as well. :emote:

[Vi]

p_r-Town→ch&T-scum, else p_r would be q-hammered by remaining two scum. (if 4 to lynch)

[Vi]

*"else" should be "otherwise"; lol logicspeak

[Vi]

*twitch*
Also

mod: I've been wondering when you'd see that the DL is not January January anything.

[Vi]

2733 - Fonz. Yes I know I did something similar D2 :emote:

[Vi]

If there are no scum in that three, then two nonreds are scum - unlikely.

At the same time, they prob. aren't ALL scum either.

[Vi]

Neither of those facts are particularly compelling.

As of this five minutes leaning toward a p_r lynch based on Ftf's play. Objections?

[Vi]

It takes 5 to lynch.

[Vi]

2749 - Arrangement of the votes?

[Vi]

also hi chamber

[Vi]

Assumption of 4 to lynch :bitter:
Plus T didn't give him the finger straightaway.

chamber: Anything (else) to say?

[Vi]

Fonz - I'll let T answer his own grief - he's delinq. in posting anyway - but I don't agree with your interp. of events.

[Vi]

Nor am I partic. interested in RF vote.

Is pr Town, or scum?

[Vi]

W/4 to lynch, if pr has 2 votes & isn't qhammered, then
*pr is Town & both people on him are scum, or
*pr is scum
One is more likely than other given Ftf&T.

[Vi]

2777 - IOW, is team ch+T+pr? Not likely.
But you're not answering the question from 2773.

[Vi]

ch - Just wanted to see if you would willingly contribute anything; ty

[Vi]

2779 - Largely due to
*T-scum
*mass bussing like that would be a first-seen for me

[Vi]

What happened to 2747?

[Vi]

Y/N isn't a false dichotomy. It's one or the other.
Right now it seems like you want to muddy everything except RF-scum message.

[Vi]

If we lynch -a- scum Today, the game goes on. Which one is not partic. relevant.

[Vi]

And speaking frankly, I still don't buy you-confTown.

[Vi]

2799 - Semantics aside. Take a stand.
2804 - See 2811, plus content not justifying ~4 rereads.

[Vi]

OMG post numbers in thread review

2847 - RF doesn't really look like SIFOM r.now, combined w/caution vs. Fonz pushing his lynch.

[Vi]

H/ever, minus 2844 the Fonz block seems sensical.
As for 2845, it's a very bad thing iff pr is Town. Otherwise see RF2828.

[Vi]

pr isn't nearly most likely to flip Town in the reds IMO, so I would rather lynch him even if it is a bus.

However again,

[Vi]

assuming AV+H+Fonz-Town, PoE p.much edges RF out.

Then
FonzTown→Lynch RF
else lynch PR
?

[Vi]

It doesn't feel right but that's the logical conclusion.

[Vi]

2858 - lol, connections between unflipped players
2863 - → = conditional = "if" statement

[Vi]

chamber 2861 more or less sums it up, although my RF read is more unsure than Town.

[Vi]

Which brings me back to 2855.

[Vi]

At this point I think I'm going in circles. :emote:
Give me a few to sort this out.

[Vi]

RF2885 - What were you hoping for by holding off your vote?

[Vi]

2895, meet 2826 through 2828.
Plus given who's voting pr the chance of a QH is incredibly small.

[Vi]

Vote: RayFrost

(L-2)

[Vi]

A little faster than I expected, but not a regrettable lynch tbh.

[Vi]

Tomorrow (and I'm p.sure there'll be a Tomorrow) should be quite fun given those last two votes.~ :emote:

[Vi]

Oh, and before I forget--

Seasons Greetings!

[Vi]

If by incriminating silence you mean my Internet connection got reset, I would take that seriously.

[Vi]

I'm not sure what to think of posts like 2923, simply because I've not seen scum in a position to make them. I'd LIKE to call Town.

[Vi]

I WAS posting all over the site. Then my Internet connection reset in the middle of it.

[Vi]

Plus if I were scum, I wouldn't spoil the ending anyway. It's what I'd want people to do for me-mod.

[Vi]

With that said, I'm assuming you know the outcome of this lynch based on 2935?

[Vi]

I really wanted this to be over just so I could change my avatar.

*tries to*
*gets board error*

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

---

Apologies to Fonz. pap-rat wasn't a PLANNED bus but that quickly turned into the order of the day, and I wanted a leg up on the inevitable GF vs. GF argument that would follow.

Of all the games I've played, I think this was the one where I was most glad not to be Town. I don't know how Kast and chamber did it, but I couldn't keep up with this thread at all until that 27+post pileup.

Also now that this game is over I can add this in as the biggest Mini the site has seen so far by a large margin.

[Vi]

There were a bunch of issues about people courting modkills in this game, but I'm actually fairly impressed with how Tasky was able to NOT look like scum while doing it.

[Vi]

Aaaand there we are with the av swap workaround.

Arcanus: His true identity is so obvious he only needs to wear half a mask.

[Vi]

While my penchant for drawing inv-immune scum is nice - even when I'm scum, I'm

never

scum - had your investigations been at all different or had we not blocked AV throughout the game this game would have turned out very, very differently. So no, I still mind the Cop role. I do still have to wonder why you asked me to replace in for a slot you thought was scum, though.

On a side note, your "goodbye everyone" gambit at the end of D1 is going down as one of my favorites. It probably would have worked better if we weren't already going to kill someone else, but still.

[Vi]

T~T

We should have gone along with the Rat bus, eh?

...and even when I'm scum, you should listen to me.

[Vi]

Eq: It's hard to breadcrumb something in red text and just let it go by.

The role, sure, but my selections in this game worked out well for you.

By the narrowest of margins, yes.

Which of the mafia was the RB?

The one that wasn't me and wasn't the one we were trying to bus.

[Vi]

Also, I think I'm going to conveniently disappear before Kast shows up.

I don't care if the scumchat gets posted. You can laugh at how quickly the gamestate changed given that AH and RF were IMO valid kill targets N1 and N2. At least I correctly predicted N2 that Herodotus had already investigated me if he was the Cop.

[Vi]

YES

DRUNKPOSTING TO SAY

I apologise for being a shit PR

this was my first time as PR

how would I improve? ploxx?

The bolded pretty much sums it up.

If you're drunk enough to sound like me, you should probably consider stepping away from the computer.

If you're drunk enough to sound like CAPS LAWCK, you should probably

run

away from the computer.

[Vi]

Actually, I think it was my drunkposting that saved me from certain doom D1...? >_<"

Well, yes... I didn't think about that. (You're welcome, btw)
But it also precluded any chance you may have had of successfully using your role.

[Vi]

Trade.
I think you'll find ours more amusing.

[Vi]

Incidentally, what DOES 'QQ' mean?

[Vi]

Oh right, since apparently I didn't say it earlier--Tasky should

definitely

been modkilled ITT. However, if that had happened - in fact if anything role-relatedly different had happened short of H getting killed before D3 - scum would have lost this game in much less of a contest.

I mean really. Imagine D3 again, without Tasky (having been modkilled D2), with chamber dead (via AV's shot N2), probably with EquiJailer targeting people other than H or AV. In fact you don't even need to throw Equinox in to see how messed over we would have been.

[Vi]

"Fairness" shouldn't have had anything to do with it though. We can criticize game balance all we want (I still think what is prominently called "balanced" even in this game is actually Town-sided with a good chance of power roles crowding out the scum) but it shouldn't factor into a clear rules break.

[Vi]

Cop/Vig/JK vs goon/GF/RB isn't unbalanced at all. Indeed, part of my thinking day three was that with those three town roles, RB-only was more balanced than RB-GF. Of course, it just underlines my most strongly held belief about mafia: towns which stupidly out their roles lose.

Then again, notice that none of those roles were outed via lynch/claim (nor were they going to be).

Balance is something we can fruitlessly argue about elsewhen.