Mini 1095 - Fast Food Mafia - Game Over

[Battousai]

I'm reading, finding links and what not. Won't be posting for the next day or so on account of trying to read the thread around holiday events... I hate Christmas...

[Battousai]

Finish catching up, but before I begin just letting everyone know I'm trying something new here. This game I've decided to randomly pick two players and auto assume they are town. They are: Lewarcher and raj. Statistically there are 3 scum, therefore calling 2 town regardless of action is safe as there is still scum I can catch and if there are 2 scum, it is very very unlikely I chose both scum. The reason I have done this is that I believe it will improve the chances of me finding scum, by elimininating players they can hide behind. Now, unto the reread (and please read it, as there are a couple of questions in there).

TSQ Claims miller:

EtherealCookie- Response null
SC- Response is informative, caution = scum points for preempting town action and responding for TSQ
Chrono- Response seems to be auto-assuming town = scum points (guilty or null until proven innocent)
TSQ- Explanation is satisfactory, null.
CoolDog- Response is analytical, null

EtherealCookie 47- Links TSQ and SC together (wrong, too early), null
EtherealCookie 49- Throws around defensive then following posts concern TSQ, overstretching case a bit, scum points (note, consistently overzealous?)

SC 60- Defends actions, votes EC = scum points for not saying why EC’s actions are scummy

CoolDog 75 and others- Claiming a fast food joint is 1) unnecessary when scum are given fake claims, and the person already claimed role 2) unnecessary when the player hasn’t been wagonned and 3) unnecessary when there isn’t a call for mass claim then painting TSQ scum for not answering because (“If I was scum…”) = scum points for wanting to appear like scum hunting

SC 89- Agrees with Cooldog =scum points

Chrono 98- Links SC and cool dog (by saying they can’t both be scum. But 1 probably is) with no explanation, later explanation is simply scum wouldn’t do that as they’d get caught easier, null

Cooldog 103- I am the savior of town!!!… blatantly puts out his soft claim (PR but not doc)= scum points

TSQ Defends not name claiming- Reads as town

Peanut 181- Why narrow in on Chrono? I’m guessing because he recently posted. You are voting him for basically lurking and sitting back. What about Snakeplisskin? He’s posted even less than Chrono and the same case can be applied to him = scum points

Cooldog 183- Attacks a defender of TSQ = scum points

Cooldog 193- “Refusing to give info to town is not Pro-town” Are you abdicating we all full claim (role, name, flavor)?

SC 205- Votes Cooldog for wanting flavor from TSQ, even though he earlier agreed with cool dog and even voted TSQ to pressure him into claiming = major scum points!!!

Snake 212- Hey Chrono, still missed snake even after his post saying he will catchup. Unless you are a profit and new he would replace out = scum points

[Battousai]

Unvote
Vote: SC

Scummy response to miller claim, post 60, 89, and

205

[Battousai]

Oh, you mean like how the sample vanilla town role pm can help scum fake claim as well, or even the fake claim that were given to them by the mod could help them fake claim? You are wrong on that front. Now, is it scummy...

This implies you haven't read the rules (scummy, scum do not read the roles as close as town).

Now, if you didn't know scum received fake claims or there was a vt role posted by the mod... Would a townie of decent skill want Ythan to nameclaim (enough to pressure vote), but be adamant against a flavor claim and vote whoever is pushing it? Maybe, but I think it is still a bit opportunistic (which would imply CoolDog is town and SC is scum).

[Battousai]

Only have a little bit of time left today, so will respond quickly.

SC- I just got out of a game with Ythan and their two playstyles are similar and so I got the names mixed up. Even if scum have a fake name only, the vanilla pm posted will fill in the flavor as needed for a decent fake claim. Just don't see how you've decided to vote him for it as the difference isn't much and the WIFOM factor of it all is just off (if scum wanted flavor as well, they would have waited until someone was pushed to claim like usual).

EC- 1) The question is worded wrong either you wanted me to explain why, or you wanted the other players to guess as to why. 2) Why AntB? I did not mention others inhim slot, magua slot, and only snake (but that was to peanut trying to get his explaination not anything Snake really did that stuck out. Not to mention the fact that I said I would ignore two player slots actions until 1 scum is lynched (lewarcher/raj). I think what you tried to say in your own way (to make me look a bit suspect for not mentioning someone you are voting, IMO) is what my stance on AntB is. Well, I haven't really noticed blantant fence sitting from him (I don't believe you gave any links to reinforce your claims). It looks like he is more hesitant with his votes, which isn't that bad of a playstyle. If anything, I have a null read on him. He hasn't done anything scummy or was involved in anything big (ie miller claim and nameclaim).

[Battousai]

Mod- Can we get a prod on Peanutman and TSQ? (Chrono could still be trying to get home after Christmas with the weather and all, so not sure if he is lurking or just can't get on).

SC- Same page as me? Same page as me saying you are scum or what?

SC 306- Not liking this post. Your "Hmm..." makes it looks like you are looking into it, or you find it interesting (especially when you add in the fact he hasn't responded AFTER you shifted attention away from him. It seems like you are waiting for someone to jump on him for it, but not wanting to be the first.

Cooldog303- Ya, it's not protown. But it's not antitown as well (which is what you implied, if not said somewhere down the line) and using it as a way to pressure

[Battousai]

[quote=StrangerCoug]Would it be better if I rushed every decision I made and try to throw the game? I didn't think so either. TSQ is simply not the focus of my attention right now.[/quote]

You had multiple ways of handling that post. 1) Put it in your personal notes for later and not speak of it until your focus was on TSQ, 2) Went back and looked and saw when TSQ stopped participating, confirmed your thoughts and said something like, TSQ's last post was ... which is right when attention went away from him. I find this pretty scummy, but until he starts posting again it's null (as he could just be flaking, not actively lurking). 3) It appears like he hasn't posted since attention went away from him, I find it suspicious but my attention is on xxx right now and I can't focus on someone who isn't active right now to defend himself.

All of those would have been better than what you posted.

inhim- What about my 1 vote?

[Battousai]

inhim- I pretty much knew that my 1 vote was different than Chrono's. I asked to see how you would respond (saying that it's different and whatnot), but I expected scum would try and use it against me later, so would say something along the lines of "but you've been playing townish/null so far (with the so far as a quantifier to go back and use it as needed).

SC- So, you do admit to waiting for someone to start a case on TSQ for you?

[Battousai]

Mod- Can we get a deadline extension on account of the 3 players needing replacement, especially since they are all voting.

inhim- Why do you have no problem going back to one of my predecessors? Also, do you still find Chrono scummy?

Magua- Who do you feel has a chance to be lynched in the next 5 days? Personally, I think anyone could be wagoned in the next 5 days and be lynched.

[Battousai]

Also, do you still find Chrono scummy?

Can you expand that case a bit?

[Battousai]

Purple Orange- I find the difference (in relation to the amount it helps scum in this game) to be little to none. From that it is contradictory for him to rally for one and then calling the other scummy. I find it opportunistic as well as the CD wagon was an easy one to join (IIRC, he was the 3rdish on the wagon).

[Battousai]

Ugh... I know I'm susposed to think you are town for a bit, but your last post is just...

Assuming you are town- This minimalizes reactions a bit. Saying you are waitng for them to react gives that one blank effect (where the subjects behaved differently when they believe they are being watched). Chrono, SC will know you'd be scrutinizing their reaction and will adjust appropriately. Yes, decent scum would know this anyways, but sometimes when there is actual pressure they react without thinking of appropriate scum play.

If I wasn't assuming you are town, I'd see this as possible coaching/warning either SC or Chrono (making you the scum partner of one but not both). Noting this for later, will get back to it after a scum flip.

[Battousai]

Wow, I logged in and I actually get to play!

I'm Wendy's, and I am also a VT. Starting discussion after everyone claims would be best, so tomorrow (probably mid day) I'll post some thoughts I have if everyone has claimed.

[Battousai]

Ok, my thoughts.

I confirm that I recieved a harmless burger, though why has no one come forward to reveal why SC required less than 1 vote to lynch? I was under the impression that whoever sent me the burger, also sent one to SC and is why he was lynched at L-1.

Neighbor does not mean auto 1 person is scum, but the fact that Raj was so confident that Inhim was town that he told him he was a cop is bewildering. I would never have told inhim my power until I thought he proved himself as town and even then- maybe.

Lewarcher's role could be scum, I'm not giving him town points for giving me a burger. Especially a burger I can't eat, I asked the mod.

Inhim- pizzahut and wingstreet? You are using the fact that these two go together to believe that raj is town. That makes no sense. If any restaurant can be scum, why can't half of one be one?

Raj's recent posts have really pushed up my suspicion of him a bit. -asking why inhim isn't possible scum, claiming pregame (I believe scum would call out 2 others for the town points more than a cop claiming pregame to a

neighbor

)

For voting Magua, I would need to see a case first, otherwise I don't like a lynch on him because he is the only one not confirmed in some manner (as the confirmness of everyone is iffy).

[Battousai]

I said I was under the impression. Then you claimed you did not send one to SC, therefore I no longer think that.

What I was going to say was based on the quick lynches and my harmless burger:

We rushed D2 and D3, leaving us only D1 for information. D2/D3 went by so fast that there was no room for scum to try and form a counter wagon, claim SC/PO were town or anything. What's really weird is that two scum were quicklynched mighty easily. I don't know if that is more indictive of scum bussing at the beginning of the wagon (before they could switch off), or that they hammered to prevent more information from being gathered. Most of this gets knocked down a bit if there are two people getting a guilty result, though a tracker/sane cop combo seems overpowered in a mini, especially if the scum have no powers (scum doc/no vig = worthless).

Right now my list is:

raj > lew > magua > inhim

Though raj position is much more dynamic. Definately not ready to vote.

[Battousai]

I know there are not 2 more scum, therefore one of inhim/raj MUST be scum. I believe that is inhim, otherwise raj would be dead. Magua on the SC wagon D1 gives him a town feel. You on the antB wagon was a bit more suspect based on flip.

Did you or did you not harm someone with your burgers? I said, multiple times, that I no longer think that someone (turns out it is you) gave SC a harmless burger which caused him to require one less vote to lynch. I do not see why you would lie about it, if you are scum, therefore I believe you in that aspect. Someone made SC require one less vote to lynch, I recieved a harmless burger, might be intercontected. Then you claim that you sent me, magua, and chrono harmless burgers. Now I do not think that the harmless burger and the vote is connected. I don't know how much clearer I can be.

[Battousai]

EDIT due to recent inhim post:

Inhim: I could see that, but would have to look back and see who CoolDog found suspicious first. Though, I never played with a poisoner with that ability.

Inhim: I still cannot see town claiming cop to you in pregame. He would have no reason to believe you are town. That is what is really making me suspicous of him. And the PizzaHut thing is iffy. It's mod wifom, but what there were probably not a lot of national food chains that could pull off neighbors like PizzaHut and WingStreet. I prefer to stay away from that aspect as much as possible as playing based on theme is pretty difficult as you have to get inside the mod's head.

[Battousai]

Raj revealing role N1 is a bit more townie than pregame, but I still don't see why town-raj would think inhim was town after his D1 play. Nothing inhim did D1 would sway me to be confident in his alignment, especially since we are neighbors. I'd be much more paranoid as a cop/neighbor.

Going over what happened, N1, inhim wanted a result on PO. Chances of PO being lynched D2 were high regardless (even tracker targetted him). Pretty safe for scum-raj to give inhim a guilty. N2, scum-raj singled out SC. Based on inhim's ingame posts, I'm guessing inhim called SC out for PO's bus vote (from post 492) in the night talk. It may have swayed him enough to rat out his partner and get major bonus points for "outting" 2 scum. Then comes N3 and he investigates me. If only I was scum then it would have been very impressive that you investigated all 3 scum back to back. I can definately see raj as possible scum here. The only thing that's pushing him as town is that he "investigated" 2 scum. Total posts is 20 (10 D1, 7 D2-D3) and not much townie posts of that.

Then looking at the wagon on SC, raj voted Magua first for not voting in the last quicklynch. Doesn't make sense in the fact that Magua decided to wait before putting PO at L-2 and wasn't on to hammer. I can see this as you trying to hide as a PR, but why pick on Magua?


Confirming that CoolDog found SC the scummiest in his last post. Leads to believe he targetted and thus weakened SC.

Can you both [inhim and raj] ask the mod if you can post your nighttalk? Might help solidify or change reads on raj.

Raj- why are you dismissing lewarcher could be scum? You say 2 shots to lynch scum, might as well lynch magua today. You didn't investigate lewarcher either, so there has to be something there that you can articulate as to why he is town.

Magua- You are also counting lewarcher as town. Could you tell us why?

Inhim- You as well. At least two of you must be town, so there has to be something I am missing.

[Battousai]

Magua- D1 points I do not agree with. He may have pushed a bit on SC, but he shoved AntB (along with raj). Replacements interest is null, easy for scum to appear townie with waiting for replacements as scum would really have nothing to lose. D3- Post 490, I believe, he weakens the case on SC by saying something like it not being very strong, best place to put his vote. Gives credence to the fact that scum could early bus and not be able to jump off as the wagon was too quick.

Nothing there sways me to believe lew is town, still a bit null leaning scum for me.

raj- That's just asinine, really. How is this even remotely balanced, from a town-raj perspective? Sane Cop neighbor, neighbor, tracker, miller, poisoner, confirmable townie, 3 VT vs goon, scum doc (no vig killing role, as poison can't be treated by doctors only poison docs), and ??? goon/GF? The role is confirmable, but the alignment is not.

I think one of the PRs is fakeclaiming a role. That leaves town neighbor, Sane Cop town neighbor, and Town burger vendor. Pretty certain there aren't two scum, so at least 1 of the neighbors is town (based on Inhim not killing you, I'm more than willing to bet it is him), so that leaves Sane Cop town neighbor, and Town burger vendor. We know that lewarcher is at least a burger vendor. So, my vote today goes to lewarcher or raj. Opinions?

[Battousai]

I'm "blowing up" reads because I think you guys are wrong and me attacking your reads and your defense gives me info for my own suspicioun.

Docs cannot cure poison, that is why there are poison docs. That gives scum 2 vanilla roles. I do not think poisoner can mispoison in this setup (no roleblock, etc.). Tracker/Sane Cop combo is overpowered, miller claim however, weakens it a bit (though I think optimal miller play is to claim like TSQ did so that lessens it). If the mod believed that the miller helped weakened the tracker/sane cop combo enough, I do not see him putting in a role that confirms itself as doing nothing on the town side.

[Battousai]

raj- If there is a town doc, tracker, and sane cop in a mini, I'd never play with that mod again.

Tired, just got back from watching The Green Hornet, and Imma go to bed now.

[Battousai]

inhim- ya, but as long as the next game isn't ran by the same mod, as they have no sense of balance

I don't know about the rest of you, but the only sub I get at Subway is the Meatball Marinara every once in a blue moon because it has 1000 calories (6 inch). Not very healthy

Magua- And I doubt the mafia are immune to poison. Just because you eat healthier, it doesn't mean you are immune to some antifreeze marinade

Lew- I don't see inhim scum at all. D1 play was less than protown, but not killing cop is highly, highly unlikely. Poison-doc is a

standard

with the poisoner. Since both those roles were created, and used on site I have never seen a doctor heal poison.

[Battousai]

battousai, we are close to the end of the game - second-to-last day, prolly - and there was no single nightkill except the mafia ones. A single death occurred at the end of a day, and it was due to poisoner. Why should we think that there is another killing role?

also: I have a longer experience than my onsite stats may suggest. Several doctors can cure poison, especially in when there are no other killing roles.

I agree that InHim is a strongly pro-town player. But something bothers me about the neighbors.

Yes, and if it isn't inhim, by deduction it's with raj's part.

[Battousai]

Rajscum results in this setup:

miller, tracker (weakened cop), poisoner (vig who can't kill N1), town neighbor, confirmable townie, 4 VT vs mafia goon, mafia doctor, mafia goon/GF???

An investigative, killing role, 2 roles that are confirmable vs 3 scum is pretty balanced.

Also miller weakens cop, yes. But, miller claim gives town possible mislynch or, when coupled with a town killing role, a loss of a killing ability for 1 night.

[Battousai]

raj- As I said, miller with a town killing role = miskill. That could be the point of the miller.

[Battousai]

No, I have IHSIB as basically confirmed town. Looking back, that was a typo. My scumlist still hasn't changed from earlier.

Raj > lewarcher > Magua > IHSIB.

Maybe it's time to vote?

Vote: raj

[Battousai]

Town double-voter as well...

Pretty damn confident inhim-scum would have gotten raj NK'd early, so that means he's town

Vote:lewarcher

[Battousai]

Really? I'm pretty sure EVERYONE agreed that I'm the next lynch.

Where was I using unconsistant argumentations about your burgers? The only time I mentioned anything other than confirmable townie was when I was explaining my reaction to recieving a burger and then SC being weakened.

Knowing inhim isn't a noob, he'll iso each of us and come up with who questions and cases against both of us. I'll choose to defend myself over attacking you.

[Battousai]

The best reason lew is scum... well if you were scum you'd hammer and I'm not scum. By process of elimination, lew must be scum. But seriously, I'd rather not attack Lew and just refer back to our play and votes D1 and D4 (Quicklynches didn't let me play for D2/3).

[Battousai]

he he he sweet, Battousai. Way to dodge questions.

I see no reasons not to attack on LyLo. You want to win or not? By all means, do it if you can. Point out what was scummy about my play.

you disappeared after a day1 full of activity, in which you were scumbussing SC. Where were you when I actually started the case that got him lynched? You had 10 hours to log in and post...
then you come back, and you only cast doubts about everyone's reads of the game. You made a lot of comments yesterday: why are you not willing to attack me now?

You declared twice I was the second best lynch after raj. I never understood why. The least you can do is explain it now.

The closest thing to a case you made was a very confused reference to some killing role other than mafia to justify the presence of a mafia doc. That argument failed. You backtrack on it, still you say I am the second best after raj. And again, no trace of a case, no trace of a reason.

What you were doing was preparing the field for today, because you knew you would have killed magua or InHim, and you knew you would have had to vote me. The scummiest thing in your play is the absence of reasons for FoSing me yesterday.

Provide them, Iplease.

1) I never really had you as scum. D1 I was ignoring you (gambit of picking two people at random to ignore to increase the chance of focusing on scum), and yesterday I had inhim as town, raj as probable town. You were null at best, putting you second on my scum list. That is why you were second best lynch. Because you were not inhim, nor Magua.

2) Nice. Take credit for the SC lynch. The cop got a guilty and in game hinted it to his neighbor, and Magua quickhammering with both votes (based on a completely different reason than you). Also, where was I for 10 hours? I dunno, sleeping? Like I've consistently been for most of the game (only recently winter break ended), I didn't get on before noon.

3) I never referenced there being a second, unknown, killing role. I only said doc does not heal poison.

4) Why would I kill Magua? Yesterday ended with everyone saying they would vote me. If anything, batt-scum should have killed no one for the wifom of it all and dragged it out into a tie if the town no lynched. Magua had raj as scum, then me. Lewarcher had me as scum, followed by magua (I believe magua second or possibly raj). Inhim had me as scum, followed by Magua. Saying that I killed Magua because he found me scummy is asinine. Everyone found me scummy for some reason I just don't understand.

Inhim- just hammer lew now, and respond to my PM (replacing into your current game). I need a new game to play since this is ending.

[Battousai]

You are taking credit for it now, when in actuality, you only got 1 vote. Raj convinced inhim, and magua found his own reasoning. Therefore, you did not start the case that got him lynched, you were just first on the wagon.

[Battousai]

you know, Battousai, InHim can just go back, read it himself and decide.

Exactly. Which is why I'm trying not to attack you, but to defend myself.

---

Are you purposely not reading with comprehension? I'm not arguing the timeline. I'm saying that your case did not lead to a SC lynch. All other votes on the wagon were for different reasons, and according to raj, he told inhim in thread about his investigation result. So you can not credit your case in getting SC lynched. Which by all accounts, can be seen as early day bussing and not being able to unvote due to the quicklynch.

[Battousai]

Again, what the fuck are you talking about? I'm not discrediting your case, I'm discrediting your claim that your case lead to SC being lynched because Inhim new raj got a guilty due to their secret code (I believe it was start first post with a vowel for guilty, consanant for innocent, punctuation for no result) and magua voted with his own reasoning.

I never said, "I got a harmless burger, that means that SC got one too and is why he took one less vote to lynch." I said something along the lines of "I thought [thought is a past tense term] that my harmless burger and SC getting lynched at L-1 were connected, but that since you claim not to have given him one then it must not have." Who the fuck wouldn't be curious as to why they recieved an item in the night that they can't interact with and seems to have not affected them (poison, protection, etc.)? Who wouldn't see that their MIGHT be a connection to it and being lynched at L-1 if they haven't been brought to L-1 since recieving it? I dropped it once you claimed that you did not give it to SC, because scum wouldn't give one to their partner, nor would town lie about giving it to scum, resulting in a lynch.

[Battousai]

Batt's first post was the real kicker. Came out assuming I was Town.

As town I would assume you to be town. If you were scum you would have killed raj or at least misled him.

I was pretty much screwed when my partners were quicklynched. I didn't have time to get into the game and let people get a read on me. As yesterday went on, I pretty much knew I was dead, so I tried acting in a non scum (but not town) way. I started with trying to save Magua from a lynch, as I felt he was the only other person that could be lynched today. Then I killed him once I knew my fate was basically sealed, as everyone was getting a town read on him at the end. I was hoping to come in today with raj and magua, getting either raj to lynch magua or convincing magua that raj must be town based on the neighbor/neighbor thing. If only raj and inhim weren't neighbors, I would have tried at getting inhim lynched

I also thought this game was a role fuck type of game, where roles were put in to fuck up your perception of it: Town/Town neighbors, tracker/miller/GF, poisoner/scum doc [which is why I held onto doctor can't cure poison]. The cop claim really messed my perception up.

Be it bias against losing or biased against heavy PR games only 3 vanillas, all of which were killed before N2. Personally I think vanilla roles should make up more than half of the roles. Other than that, the game was ran well, no mod errors (though I still believe the doctor shouldn't be used to cure poison), balance for this game seemed pretty swingy, if not tilted town.

Great play by town (not sure what magua was doing at the end though), and I'm happy at least I got a claimed cop with 2 scum guilty results lynched, though.

I'm ok with the mafia QT being posted if the others are. Though, I did use it for my personal thoughts after SC died.

[Battousai]

Reading the dead qt, it appears that inhim and raj know each other in rl, so they can read each other well enough. Definately added even more power to the neighbors.

[Battousai]

If anything, I thought CoolDog would have poisoned you. Everyone else he had listed as town, which is why I didn't bring that up in thread. I was hoping (though I doubted) after the raj lynch, you would die as well. Another reason I didn't want to NK you.

[Battousai]

Ya, I would have claimed as well.

[Battousai]

Here is scum QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/45/H/zv8uvwLW7Cai