Execution Mafia GAMEOVER!

Amrun · Post Post #91 (isolation #0) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 3:49 am

I'm here. Sorry for the delay.

It was Valentine's Day weekend and I didn't have much computer time. Catching up now.

Amrun · Post Post #94 (isolation #1) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:03 am

Umbrage, yes, they do. :p. Every time I tried to sneak on mafiascum, my boyfriend gave me the "WE ARE SPENDING $600 ON THIS WEEKEND AND YOU WANT TO GET ON THE INTERNET" death glare. Too much guilt. Couldn't post much.

Okay, now for my impressions:

Top scum pick: vezo.

"Oh, I wasn't fishing, I was... *wanders off*"

Scummy. Scum scum scum scum.

Shattered View Point is my #2. He's pushing the TS wagon so hard ... And so, so badly. All of his points are terrible stretches. Speculation is not rolefishing, but asking scummy fishquestions like vezo did is. There are reasonable reasons to suspect TS, but SV's reasons are scummy.

My other reads are less strong and belong in a different category.

TS... Eh, the wagon is really terrible, in my opinion, but that doesn't make him NOT scum. Exe's strange actions kind of sum up the wagon on him: "you're promoting bad tactics" (a little stretch, but a valid point) right along with "saying things I have said previously is mudslinging" (terrible point, horrible misrep). Ie, some points against TS are good, but none are damning yet and people need to hold their horses. Still, TS is on my suspects list as a distant third. I think it's not stronger because I'm getting huge scumvibes from veso and SV who are pushing the TS wagon.

Ant has given me both town and scum pings.

Charter looks like he's trying hard to appear pro-town with an absolutely minimal amount of content.

Tragedy: total lack of content.

Cooldog: coming off newb town at this point, but only gave reads when asked. A little scummy.

Exe: started off with a trown read on him that moved rapidly into a null tell and may descend further, depending on his actions. At first, his logic was solid. Then, he pushed his own plans hard and relied on the town's townread of him to pull off some scummy tactics (ie post your reads NOW or you're on my hitlist) and then degenerated into some terrible logic.

My most solid townread is FF and it's the only one I will trust at this juncture, so...

VOTE: FF

Amrun · Post Post #98 (isolation #2) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:45 am

@Umbrage: I have a townread on HC so far. I left questionable townreads off my list, for the most part, because there's not much to say about them. There seems to be some sort of minor upset about him on the last page but I must have missed what he actually did. Wasn't it just calling for picking who will be our daykill? What's so bad about that? I might be mistaken on this, though. I intended to catch it on a re-read.

As for vezok, how is his fishing not scummy, in your eyes?

@SV: Wow, mudslinging at its finest. You replaced into a game I was in, so you should know I'm usually a regular contributor. Good job making yourself look scummier.

Amrun · Post Post #99 (isolation #3) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:46 am

Also, SV, for pushing the TS wagon so hard, that's a quick turnaround to fencesitting.

Amrun · Post Post #101 (isolation #4) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:06 am

If she wasn't fishing, she should have fully explained exactly what she WAS trying to do in the post after it was pointed out. Instead, there was a feeble, "Well, if you want to call that fishing..." To me, it came off like she was caught red-handed.

So, who do you think are the "biggest fish," then?

Amrun · Post Post #113 (isolation #5) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:25 am

@Exe: What a misrepresentation. Yes, my highest read on my "scum" meter is currently vezo, but my SECOND is not TwistedSpoon, and there is literally no way at all to construe that from my post. You have to be deliberately trying to skew my words.

My #2 is clearly stated to be Shattered Viewpoint, and honestly, he may be creeping to my #1.

Also, I never said FF is my only town read. I said that he is the only town read I am willing to trust/vote for at this point in the game... 5 pages in, oooh, so much content to go off of, right?

I don't know how you think my reads are sheeping; you don't explicitly say they are, but you imply they are. My points about vezo fishing are not new, but I'm the only one FoSing him (I think), and also my points about his reactions ARE new. As for TS... The reason I hesitate on him is because the two people I find scummier than him are pushing for his lynch hard. That makes the situation ambiguous, in my eyes. If any one of those three flip, that will help my reads immensely. Also, I'm pretty sure all my other reads are original, especially the reads on you.

It's strange how you have changed so much in five pages. You went from calmly presenting plans to flailing about because one or two people don't implicitly trust you. NOT EVERYONE WANTS TO LET ME HAVE MY WAY, WAAAAAAAAH.

Quite frankly, the only people who should be upset they may possibly not get execution power is scum. Throwing hissy fits about someone not voting for you is scum behavior. Period.

@vezo: More deflection. More scumpoints for you.

P-edit: More hissy fits. Your playstyle is quickly becoming antagonistic and down-right annoying. I would be interesting in hearing the supposed town gambit you are trying to pull off by acting like a five year old.

Amrun · Post Post #118 (isolation #6) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:38 am

As far as I can tell, you did, in fact, say TS was my second. You said:

Your second highest read is a tip-toe. "TS is definitely scummy, don't worry, I don't wanna seem like I disagree, but we should still find SV scummy instead." Trying way too hard to please both sides.

If I have misunderstood, then I apologize, but most of your posts lately have been all over the place and hard to follow. If you accuse me of being too "careful," then I accuse you of being not careful enough in the sense that in the beginning of the game, I read your posts and they were quite clear, and now you're excited or drunk or something and the syntax is really confusing.

And I have shared more than one town read. You simply refuse to understand my post. Yes, this game is high in content for a typical beginning, but it's still only 5 pages.

You really need to get off your little ego-trip. Whether or not you are town, I won't stroke it. I don't trust people as town very easily; it's a characteristic of my play and it's been called scummy before, but frankly, I don't care. This is a game about mafia. Trusting people is stupid.

p-edit: Okay, fine, but don't call me out for supposedly lacking reading comprehension when you're barely intelligible in the entire last page.

I think someone should revoke your caps lock privileges.

Amrun · Post Post #121 (isolation #7) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:21 am

Sometimes you make yourself clear, Exe. Sometimes you do not.

I am not sure how I'm supposedly trying to please people. I like to be careful and cautious. It's just how I play. Still, I don't "try to please people" and I don't know where you're getting that from.

How am I trying to "appear original?" As it happens, I have some reads that are the same as others and some that are different. That's pretty standard. And as you say, "I don't know why scum would do that." Scum wouldn't do that. Haha. That's probably the silliest thing I've seen yet this game.

I still don't like your continual deflecting.

Amrun · Post Post #125 (isolation #8) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:50 am

TS, Exe wasn't the one who said that. He basically accused me of sheeping, which I clearly was not.

vezo accused me of the opposite, which is still absolutely baffling to me.

@Exe: Your last post is a perfect example of a post with confusing syntax. Is the post addressed to me? If so, WHY is it addressed to me and why didn't you indicate that? If it's not, then why did you refer to TS as "he" and to me as "you" when I wasn't even involved? That post makes very little sense and the only reason I can somewhat decipher it is because it is so short. When you post walls entirely full of such confusion, it's unintelligible.

I agree with TS's statement about StrungOver. More content plz.

p-edit: Excuse me, HC? I voted in my first post.

Amrun · Post Post #127 (isolation #9) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:56 am

What about my posts makes you think I'm even remotely inclined to vote for Exe?

Amrun · Post Post #129 (isolation #10) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:57 am

Eh, even though I disagree with electing an executioner now, it isn't inherently scummy. The execution itself would not be immediate.

In all honesty, I'd rather focus on scumhunting and then simply elect someone to do the killing who thinks that killing our target is a good idea. That seems a lot more natural and fruitful.

Amrun · Post Post #135 (isolation #11) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:06 am

Shattered Viewpoint wrote:Amrun, hypothesize with me for a moment. Say we elect Exe RIGHT NOW THISVERYMINUTE and, as we're discussing who to execute, Exe makes a slip and outs himself as obvscum?

Yes, we can elect too soon. And I won't have any of it.

If that were the case, then presumably, what led him to the obvscum slip would be the sense of security he felt. In the end, that would be a gain for us as we got a definite witch, which we can then kill for our nightkill. (Haha, witch which)

I don't promote the idea of choosing an executioner right now myself, but I don't think having a difference in philosophy with someone makes that person scum. I can see the town motivation in it.

Amrun · Post Post #148 (isolation #12) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:54 am

Aw, Umbrage, I was compiling a case on vezok and you ruined it.

That's okay, though, since I was going to say basically the same thing.

It's obvious that my number one suspect is still vezok.

@tragedy: Content soon or your stalling will be a scumtell.

@Exe: If you can't figure out why that post was not good English, then I'll be happy to give you some English lessons. It will be good practice for when I become an English teacher. We SHOULD NOT have to spend five minutes figuring out the basic content of a one-line post. Context should not be relied on so heavily. You muddled your antecedents and treating it so flippantly is annoying. Having genuine trouble is permissable, but don't pretend your posts are crystal clear when they're not.

Amrun · Post Post #159 (isolation #13) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:41 am

@Exe: I wasn't trying to argue with what you were saying in that post at all. Earlier, you seemed flabbergasted that I suggested that your posts should be clearer. I was merely using that post as an example of why I found some of your earlier posts difficult to understand. I stated clearly that I figured it out with context because it was so short but that doing so is impossible with longer posts. It has nothing to do with what you're actually attempting to say, especially since that is difficult to determine sometimes. That's my whole point.

And I'm a top suspect on your list now?

Wow, if that's not a spite FoS then I don't know what is. Rest assured that I will never let you handle the town kills if I can help it. You're far too influenced by your ego and emotions to be trusted with something like that.

@Umbrage: Actually, you're incorrect.

@Tragedy: I don't understand your question at all, I'm afraid. I'll do my best, though: I see the town motivation for HC's thinking, so I have a townread on him. However, for his idea to work, everyone has to cooperate totally. In the end, I don't think it would play out as nicely as he thinks, so I don't fully support implementing his idea. My townread on FF is because he proposed a lot of solid pro-townie plans. They weren't. Perfect plans, but that's okay. When people pointed out flaws, he adapted and considered the validity of others' points. I thik FF will be likely to kill who we (the town) ask him to kill even if he disagrees with that choice. Exe, on the other hand, is more likely to kill whomever he feels like on a whim. In the beginning, he had solid pro-town plans, so, like with FF, I had a townread on him. Then he revealed his rigidity and ego and I decided he is too untrustworthy to be given a kill, but I have a null read on him for now.

Amrun · Post Post #161 (isolation #14) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:13 am

You have misrepesented a couple of things of mine and made one or two points I can consider valid, though they seem to stem from a different philosophy of playing than you have. People have differences in thinking about things that lead to misunderstandings. I recognize that.

However, how am I suddenly your TOP contender? It's obviously influenced by your dislike of me calling you out.

Amrun · Post Post #166 (isolation #15) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:22 pm

And then Final Fires finally posts who he would kill, and I'm feeling better about my vote. Good.

Question, though... I do agree about the Exe bullying, but I don't think HC was taking a part in it. He was, but in a different way. He just wants anybody to be elected executioner. He doesn't care who. Others on the bullywagon want Exe in particular to be executioner. I think it's a key difference.

Your points still stand, though, and I'm going to ruminate on it a bit more and keep it in mind for future reads.

p-edit:

@charter: I never insinuated that five pages of content isn't enough to go on. I gave a humongous list of reads... How is that nothing?

Amrun · Post Post #167 (isolation #16) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:23 pm

Oh, and, how could ending dayphase early like charter just proposed EVER be pro-town?

Amrun · Post Post #171 (isolation #17) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:09 pm

Exe: Weren't you one saying context is important? Guess what? It is. What I was actually saying, in context, was that I had plenty of reads but that you saying I didn't have enough reads was bullshit -- which it still is. You were saying I didn't have enough townie reads. I had several townie reads already noted, and specifically said I didn't include slight town reads because there wasn't much to say on them at this point. For five pages of game play, I think my reads were more than adequate.

Amrun · Post Post #174 (isolation #18) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:41 pm

@charter: Okay. That's why quoting people out of context is bad.

Also, you're right that I have never been beat that way (yet), but how can you not see how that looks with this set up?

In the hypothetical situation where we elect you as executioner and you kill someone immediately, town gets NO TIME to discuss night kill and night executioner. That puts town at a HUGE disadvantage and you suggesting it does not is a scumtell for me even when you inevitably say you didn't realize it would mean that in your next post.

Also, Exe has not committed to kill TS. Even though he claims TS is his highest scum suspect, he says a kill between me and TS is a tossup -- basically because he's mad that I won't vote for him as executioner.

Amrun · Post Post #175 (isolation #19) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:42 pm

Also, I disagree that no voting means no pressure. Kills happen all the same and someone with the most FoS has pressure.

Amrun · Post Post #178 (isolation #20) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:45 pm

Once again, you fail to comprehend my post or are purposefully misrepping. I have plenty of reads and plenty to go off, but reads based on 5-10 pages of play are simply not as reliable as reads based on 20 pages of play. However, if you don't get reads in the first pages and keep following them through for 20 pages, it's all useless anyway.

And you actually have been rude several times.

And suddenly I drop off your suspect list after you realize no one is going to bite on your spite FoS?

Amrun · Post Post #182 (isolation #21) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 3:08 pm

@charter: Why would it not be necessary if they viged?

Someone having a bad defense doesn't mean they are definitely scum (though it sure as HELL does not help us think they are town), but in this case, this is especially true. TS got accused of sheeping, singled out and accused for sheeping when no one else had been accused of sheeping, when in fact he did nothing more worthy of being called sheep than several other people had done. I actually think it was a good defense, though he definitely could have worded it better. I say this because when I read the accusation, I thought, "He's right. Sheeping is bad," but when I read TS's defense, I thought, "Was this attack on TS valid? Was this tunneling? Is this town reasoning?" and it made me rethink. Ergo, his defense was effective somewhat at least in this case.

My list hasn't changed much. TS is still distant #3 on my scumlist. newtown and newbscum are so hard to differentiate... And he is scumhunting and trying. If and when one of his heavy bandwagoners flip, I will do a re-read and this will probably affect my read.

For now, my top 2 suspects are people I am comfortable seeing swing.

p-edit:

@Exe:

I don't think 5 pages is inadequate. Do I think 5 pages is better or the same as 20 pages? No. There is a difference there and I'm done trying to show you the nuance.

Saying so and so's reads aren't pro-town means nothing if you don't explain it, and your attempts at explanation failed miserably imho.

Still, you're right in that I should have learned not to take you seriously by now.

I'll go back to "nitpicking" people who DO take this game seriously and actually WANT to find scum.

Amrun · Post Post #189 (isolation #22) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:27 pm

@charter: I had not thought of the TS response in that light and I find myself agreeing... Hmm. I will ruminate on this.

@Exe: Why don't you feel a need to explain? Explaining your motivation gives town information, so a town motivation would be to explain your thoughts on scumtells.

Amrun · Post Post #191 (isolation #23) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:56 pm

The question about Vezo is because my top two at the moment are vezo and YOU, so if you voted for me, you want vezo dead.

The vote for me is really throwing me off and I don't know what to think...

Amrun · Post Post #193 (isolation #24) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:22 pm

@SV: I should clarify. My top two are you and vezo, but I assume your reason for voting me is that you feel secure that the town pick will NOT be you, or even vezo.

If that is the case, I will kill who town picks. I just was trying to explain the reason behind the question as I saw it (as it is a valid question).

Amrun · Post Post #195 (isolation #25) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:28 pm

Quick question: what is a chainsaw defense?

Amrun · Post Post #198 (isolation #26) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:41 pm

That's acceptable to me, SV, and some goodposting from you is helping you move safely back into my #2 slot.

Can you outline your cases on Umbrage and twisted for me?

Amrun · Post Post #200 (isolation #27) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:55 pm

Oh crap, it was in the wiki. My bad. Newb revealed.

Thank you, though. Seems valid theory to me.

Amrun · Post Post #220 (isolation #28) » Tue Feb 15, 2011 7:22 am

I'm fine with Final Fires getting it, as indicated by my vote, but NOT Exe...

Exe, how could you end the dayphase when we haven't discussed night executioner or night kills?!

Amrun · Post Post #222 (isolation #29) » Tue Feb 15, 2011 7:25 am

Umbrage, why wouldn't you want a VT alive?

I have to admit that his anti-town behavior is making me not care if he lives or dies... But I wouldn't kill him by virtue of him being town.

But I grant him VI of this game.

Amrun · Post Post #232 (isolation #30) » Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:53 am

And if we ask you why, vezo, then we look scummy for rolefishing.

Do not believe you.

Also, HC, I don't care WHAT TS flips ... I don't want Exe to be executioner. If everyone else wants that, though, I'll go along.

p-edit: So the daykill was a gambit?

Amrun · Post Post #261 (isolation #31) » Tue Feb 15, 2011 2:23 pm

About SV: distancing hard. So now he has no reads at all?

@Tragedy: What? Exe has done some scumhunting by reaction fishing, but very little in the way of well-reasoned arguments. Please give us some reads now or +scum points.

@charter: I see you subtly planting the idea that Exe has to be town. It isn't true and I don't buy it.

@vezok: Scummy as ever, but I'm a little more hesitant now, I guess.

@Umbrage:You moved from town to null in my eyes. This kiling VT business has me worried.

Amrun · Post Post #266 (isolation #32) » Tue Feb 15, 2011 2:57 pm

@2xe: not explaining your reads will never, ever be pro-town.

And I am very underwhelmed about your read on vezok. Not so convincing.

Amrun · Post Post #268 (isolation #33) » Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:10 pm

You have a different playstyle. That is fine.

The issue here is I find that style antitown. That doesn't make you scum in and of itself, but it doesn't help me get a town read on you. Not at all.

So if you want to play that way, feel free, but don't be mad if it contributes to a scumtell later on. That's the way it goes.

Amrun · Post Post #269 (isolation #34) » Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:11 pm

Exe, how would you have expected TS to react if he were scum?

Amrun · Post Post #272 (isolation #35) » Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:42 pm

@Exe: And how did TS's reactions differ, in your opinion?

Also, I don't think your last attack on Umbrage is entirely valid. He said "even IF he's town," which means he was operating under the assumption that you are scum, not that you are town, but that he isn't entirely sold either way.

Amrun · Post Post #274 (isolation #36) » Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:49 pm

Okay, I understand what you are saying. I don't entirely agree, but I see where you're coming from.

Amrun · Post Post #275 (isolation #37) » Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:50 pm

Also, sorry, Umbrage... I've been calling you a man this whole game. :/

Amrun · Post Post #277 (isolation #38) » Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:15 pm

Seeing as I called Exe a VI already, I basically agree with that post.

And oh, I see. I just get tired of getting called "he" on this site when it says it right under my name so I was ashamed to be caught doing the same thing.

Amrun · Post Post #293 (isolation #39) » Wed Feb 16, 2011 6:26 am

Meta is a bad argument and a bad defense. Stop using it.

You thinking being obv anti-town is being "good scum" is absolutely baffling, Exe.

I do think I understand your playstyle, I just think it's crap.

Amrun · Post Post #302 (isolation #40) » Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:33 am

@Exe: I am not obligated to comment on Umbrage's posts. I read them, but they're pretty straightforward. Both you and him are tunneling on each other and neither of your arguments are valid, imho. You're both distorting, but you are distorting his words more.

I commented on the worst example. He never said your play was good scum play. He said it was bad regardless of alignment. That much is obvious.

While Umbrage is being overly defensive in your argument, which moves him up a notch on my scum scale, you are coming out worse in the argument, in my eyes.

You are relying on meta for defense (bad) and yet attacking Umbrage for using a meta argument (bad on both sides).

The whole thing is fucking dumb and you both need to stop.

@vezok: no townie wants to know your role because they don't want scum to know your role. Anyone should know that, and as you didn't strike me as an idiot, I think you do too.

If you have a PR, I think it's a scum PR. Stop the WIFOM.

Also no one is that sure of someone else's alignment but scum or masons. Stop buddying so hard.

Amrun · Post Post #304 (isolation #41) » Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:43 am

I think he's town-buddying you, not scum buddying.

I still have a null on you, but if vezok flips scum, you get town points.

Amrun · Post Post #306 (isolation #42) » Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:46 am

And vezok's either bad town or bad scum. Telling the difference between the two has always been tough for me, but my gut says scum. Also his fishing was still a big scumtell for me.

@ant: your post confuses me.

Amrun · Post Post #308 (isolation #43) » Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:52 am

Why does Exe need to live?

His vigkill wasn't even real.

Your argument seems to be that it didn't prove he was scum, so he should live.

Proving people are scum is pretty damn difficult. If that vigkill had been real and TS flipped town, I would have gone after Exe next, no questions.

No townie really ends the day that early on a whim in this set up.

Amrun · Post Post #313 (isolation #44) » Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:37 am

Ant_to_the_max wrote:What I said was before the kill was said to be fake. So my logic behind it is moot. Only reason why I brought it up is because Final Fires asked what was going on in my head.

Yes, I know.

But how, in that situation, would exe NOT have looked scummy if TS flipped town?

He would have put town at a huge disadvantage on purpose. It would have been classic scum, just obvscum.

And yet you wanted to keep him alive no matter what. Why?

I see zero town motivation in this.

Amrun · Post Post #318 (isolation #45) » Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:40 am

Tragedy, we've been through this in the thread.

Withholding your analyzations is NOT a town thing to do.

All of your questions without answers are starting to come off as trying to appear to offer content while actually doing nothing. A couple of iffy reads offered this far into the game is kind of like too little too late.

Amrun · Post Post #327 (isolation #46) » Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:46 pm

HC, oh snap, burn.

Tragedy, really, share some of your analyzation with us, please.

@FF: I guess you're right... But at this point vezok looks so scummy that whatever he claims, I probably won't believe it. I mean, realistically speaking, if vezok claimed doctor and I was the doctor, I wouldn't say ANYTHING, not a counterclaim, nothing. I think vezok will die anyway and I wouldn't risk myself.

But I suppose it really can't HURT to hear his claim and will give us more information. So, I support this.

Amrun · Post Post #331 (isolation #47) » Wed Feb 16, 2011 2:03 pm

Pledge?

Amrun · Post Post #334 (isolation #48) » Wed Feb 16, 2011 2:05 pm

Oh, I already said I would do that a long time ago.

I will kill whomever the town wants me to kill, even if it's my top town read (though I will make my feelings and misgivings known).

Amrun · Post Post #338 (isolation #49) » Wed Feb 16, 2011 4:31 pm

FF, you're right. I'm hoping that the town would be reasonable and not try and force the executioner to execute his own town read.

Realistically speaking, though, I doubt we'll see that situation, since the town is unlikely to elect an executioner that is staunchly against the majority of personal kill candidates.

It may become an issue later in game, but at that point, the game will have changed and personal reads will become more important.

That's how I thought of it, though.

Amrun · Post Post #343 (isolation #50) » Wed Feb 16, 2011 5:07 pm

Exe: You are operating under the assumption that vezok is definitely town. Even though I think vezok is scum, I still run through "if he's actually a townie" scenarios in my head...

Do you mean, is this an alt? No. It's my one and only. Why?

Amrun · Post Post #345 (isolation #51) » Wed Feb 16, 2011 5:23 pm

Oh, well, I don't want him to claim either, unless it's execution time.

I just don't see the benefit in it on day 1 especially.

Amrun · Post Post #346 (isolation #52) » Wed Feb 16, 2011 5:24 pm

I meant to clarify that when I said I supported a claim, I ONLY meant I support a claim IF WE ARE ABOUT TO KILL HIM.

I just re-read my own post and I never made that clear. D'oh.

Amrun · Post Post #347 (isolation #53) » Wed Feb 16, 2011 5:25 pm

Which leads me to this:

Final Fires, do you mean you want vezok to claim RIGHT NOW? I thought you meant if we were going to kill him but in hindsight I'm not sure.

Amrun · Post Post #351 (isolation #54) » Wed Feb 16, 2011 6:34 pm

I can assure everyone that I will NOT execute right away, if I am executioner. Only when town feels comfortable will I execute. I think town benefits from longer days anyway (but not dragged out when nothing useful is being said anymore). So don't worry about that, if you were.

I think Final Fires or Haschel are also good candidates, should anyone not feel comfortable with me.

Amrun · Post Post #352 (isolation #55) » Wed Feb 16, 2011 6:35 pm

Also, I agree with HC on this, but I think town should be a little forgiving in most cases as far as deciding who to kill. If one executioner really doesn't want to kill the preferred candidate... pick a different executioner!

Amrun · Post Post #354 (isolation #56) » Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:19 pm

It should be handled on a case by case basis. Since I have a higher number of votes, talking about what I specifically will do makes sense.

Forcing a pledge out of everybody is pointless.

Amrun · Post Post #363 (isolation #57) » Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:39 am

Charter has given me both scum and town pings.

I've been saying SV is scum for awhile now and I stand by that.

Amrun · Post Post #366 (isolation #58) » Thu Feb 17, 2011 5:01 am

I'm fine with killing SV over vezok if that's what everyone wants.

IGUESS I would do a no-kill overnight if everyone actually wanted that, but I personally think it's a bad idea. Like really bad.

Amrun · Post Post #370 (isolation #59) » Thu Feb 17, 2011 5:49 am

What stops us from discussing kills in alternatives, as in, if x flips scum, kill y, and if x flips town, kill z?

Amrun · Post Post #378 (isolation #60) » Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:37 am

@Exe: So you're trying to break the setup?

I don't think it's as risky as you seem to think. We all disclose who we elect and who we want the person to kill in case of first execution scum flip AND in the case of town flip.

The killer either does what he or she professes or does not and explains why and we evaluate the reasoning.

I think it's a good way to CATCH scum, personally.

IF we choose not to night kill, I think it should be the FIRST NIGHT ONLY, to find out of scum have a faction kill or if there are any other factors affecting the mechanics that we don't know about. If we do it any longer than that it's useless and forfeits one of our important tools.

However, I think we can figure out factors WITH a kill, as long as everyone is open, but I do understand the appeal of no night kill for tonight only and am actually warming up to that idea.

Amrun · Post Post #381 (isolation #61) » Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:35 am

But why do we let the killer justify? We tell them who to kill, taking into account either flip scenario, annd then if they deviate from that, questioning gets intense.

If a scum decides to go against the grain, 9/10 we catch him or her for shoddy reasoning.

In a game of tit for tat, scum always lose.

Amrun · Post Post #387 (isolation #62) » Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:45 am

With scum odds, I doubt they would do this. Even if they do, we both gain a little. I'm not sure we can protect against that...

Amrun · Post Post #388 (isolation #63) » Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:48 am

Also, I would like to propose an unofficial vote system, where we vote for who we want executed so that majority is clear.

It can be an

Fos

or

Kill Candidate: X

or

Spongebob:

or anything commonly agreed upon.

Then we should attach "night" or "day" to the end, but I think we should settle on a day candidate before picking a night candidate so we can consider a night kill in context of Day Kill Flips Scum or Day Kill Flips Town.

Amrun · Post Post #391 (isolation #64) » Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:43 pm

Tragedy has posted pseudo-content ONLY. I would have no problem with a Tragedy execution.

StrungOver and CoolDog I am both more hesitant about. I'd actually support CoolDog over SO. SO reads to me as probably legitimately learning, while CoolDog reads as "the heat is too high in here and I can't take it." Still, what SO HAS posted is fishy. So seeing him executed wouldn't be the worst thing that could happen.

HC I am also null on until he starts scumhunting. Willing to give him a pass up until now, but the executioner has been elected. This is now Phase II: scumhunt.

Agree with all of FF's reads on Umbrage, Charter, Exe, though I have basically said as much elsewhere, but he went into more detail.

vezok: Terrified to kill him and have it turn out he's actually an important town PR. Terrified to let him live and find out he is an important scum PR. WHAT THE FUCK DO I DO ABOUT THIS I DON'T KNOW. Most imminently concerning issue in my mind but I have no idea how to resolve it.

Shattered: Scum. I have explained before.

Twisted: Newb town. I liked his reaction to the vigkill gambit and the major point against him is the supposed rolefishing and I 100% disagree. I don't see it as rolefishing at all. Has said some fishy things, so is closer to null, I guess. Right now I'm attributing it to newb-ness but IGMEOY.

Amrun · Post Post #392 (isolation #65) » Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:43 pm

Oh, and FF is my top town read, currently. I have said so before but I might as well say again.

Ant is null leaning town at the moment.

Amrun · Post Post #395 (isolation #66) » Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:01 pm

I'm actually feeling SO or CoolDog as night kills because then we don't have to worry about flips. It won't matter. We can handle the stuff that depends on flips tomorrow.

Amrun · Post Post #400 (isolation #67) » Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:56 pm

Oh, shoot, I forgot StrungOut was on V/LA. My b.

Umbrage, I think you're missing the nuance in my post, at least.

I was discussing the possibility of StrungOut and CoolDog kills because others were. They are not who I want to kill.

I want to kill SV, vezok, or Tragedy (who has moved up on my list).

However, I have vowed to do what town wants, and just because I want to kill certain people doesn't mean I shouldn't scumhunt on anyone and everyone.

I really do NOT want to kill SO or CD yet, but if the town wants me to, I will. If we choose to do that, I think night is a better choice. I hope that others are chosen, though.

And Charter called you out pretty well in that last post. That's a blatant discrepancy.

Amrun · Post Post #402 (isolation #68) » Thu Feb 17, 2011 5:21 pm

^^^ Ouch, StrungOver.

That's not great.

Nice catch, FF.

Amrun · Post Post #405 (isolation #69) » Thu Feb 17, 2011 5:55 pm

Can someone check on what SO said? I'm on my phone.

@FF: I believe charter was addressing Umbrage.

Amrun · Post Post #407 (isolation #70) » Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:00 pm

SO: If you posted on other threads later, why not even post here to say you're V/LA?

And you were voting in other threads...?

Lynch All Liars.

Amrun · Post Post #410 (isolation #71) » Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:53 pm

@But it actually is you MAKING a rash decision. You didn't say, "Let's consider this carefully before deciding," you said, "Exe needs to stay alive."

And why did you qft someone who wants to kill you?

Amrun · Post Post #441 (isolation #72) » Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:36 am

@Tragedy: Why are you voting? Are you saying you want to kill Exe? If so, you're going to have to tell us why.

@the rest of this mess: I smell monkey business. I'll need to see a flip out of the Exe/charter/Umbrage group to really figure it out, though.

Amrun · Post Post #444 (isolation #73) » Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:12 pm

You're going to have to explain to me why giving the executioners instructions on who to kill is somehow scummy. NOT doing so clearly favors scum.

Amrun · Post Post #451 (isolation #74) » Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:43 pm

@Tragedy: I asked you an important question and I'd like you to answer it, and give detailed reads and analysis of your own questions, asap.

@SO: It's the OPPOSITE of what is true. Choosing an NK as town reduces the WIFOM to as little as possible. I can't even begin to explain to you how you went wrong because nothing you have said recently resembles any sort of sense.

Amrun · Post Post #454 (isolation #75) » Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:27 pm

Are you kidding?

We haven't even discussed night execution in any aspect or picked a daykill.

Obtusiveness is anti-town.

Amrun · Post Post #457 (isolation #76) » Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:36 pm

No, but that's not relevant to this set up. Being a night executioner isn't a power role scum can block or kill.

Amrun · Post Post #458 (isolation #77) » Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:37 pm

If we let the night killer kill whomever, if scum gets it, there's 0% chance he kills scum and little chance we catch him for it, if we just let him kill whomever he feels like.

Amrun · Post Post #460 (isolation #78) » Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:38 pm

What happens if it comes down to SV and Tragedy, or something?

Amrun · Post Post #463 (isolation #79) » Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:50 pm

StrungOver wrote: I still don't see how iAMgunRUiNGame got elected

That's incredibly rude and untrue besides. At least I post. You didn't for a long time and that ruins the game more than anything.

You get a - point for mudslinging now.

You still haven't adequately explained why it's better for the town if the night killer chooses his own target. For example, let's say we lynch someone that flips town and also nk someone that flips town. How do we proceed, according to you?

Saying stupid and/or scummy things and then getting mad at people who disagree with you is really immature.

Amrun · Post Post #466 (isolation #80) » Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:57 pm

@charter: Why wouldn't you care? How is that pro-town?

@FF: I might go through and do a blow by blow later, but I assumed most people would see the scumminess in that post without explicit help. I pointed out the MAJOR MAJOR issue with it: the plan he's promoting is blatantly anti-town and pro-scum.

SO is now looking like a viable kill, to me.

Amrun · Post Post #469 (isolation #81) » Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:11 pm

You're still not my top pick for kill, SO, but I'm trying to let everyone else pick kill anyway.

Your scumminess has almost zero to do with your immature attacks on me.

Point out where other people said that. You might be right, but I don't recall.

Explain how your plan is pro-town. How do we catch a scum executioner?

Amrun · Post Post #471 (isolation #82) » Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:18 pm

Oops, SO. That looks pretty scummy. Too many contradictions to be mistakes.

Amrun · Post Post #474 (isolation #83) » Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:27 pm

@SO:

But in your proposed plan, if we have a number of suspects and tell the executioner "kill which one you think is scummiest," the executioner will ALWAYS pick the one that isn't actually scum if the executioner is scum, and we can't catch him for it. So there is literally ZERO chance of catching scum in your proposed plan, which is why it sucks and is pro-scum and anti-town.

And if you had actually read the thread, you would know that I was the first one to make a case on vezok and that he's my top suspect, or at the very least, one of my top suspects.

Amrun · Post Post #478 (isolation #84) » Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:39 pm

StrungOver wrote:@ FF
Dumby everything I've said is in one post >.>

And you contradict yourself so many times in that post that it's truly astounding.

In the plan where the kills are prescribed, there is at least a SMALL chance to catch scum through executioners/night kills. Small is better than zero.

Amrun · Post Post #480 (isolation #85) » Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:43 pm

We all fess up to who we voted for for NK. There is a possibility of confusion here, since scum votes count twice, but even still, no one can vote for themselves, even scum. We know with reasonable certainty who made the night kill. We have TOLD the executioner ahead of time who to kill in each case (day kill flips scum or day kill flips town). If the night kill deviates from these choices, we grill the hell out of the night killer.

Amrun · Post Post #484 (isolation #86) » Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:55 pm

StrungOver wrote:That still doesn't catch a scum exicutioner.

Yes, it does. At least there's a chance to, whereas your plan has no chance at all.

Amrun · Post Post #487 (isolation #87) » Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:03 pm

StrungOver wrote:How does it? You still have failed to explain that.

I have. When we set out an infallible course of actions, anyone that deviates from those actions is likely scum. Still, a scum ordered to kill a scumbuddy might try to kill another "likely suspect" and then explain his way out of it. In his explanation of that reasoning, which is very likely to be faulty since it is created out of thin air, we have a chance at nailing scum.

Amrun · Post Post #490 (isolation #88) » Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:20 pm

charter wrote:
Amrun wrote:@charter: Why wouldn't you care? How is that pro-town?
I have these people I think are scum, and I have these people I think are town, and then there's the rest of the people of which I don't have a certain read one way or another. Killing one of the uncertains is equivalent to killing another, it's not as helpful. If there's someone that everyone else is suspicious of (and of which I'm uncertain) then I'd favor them over the other uncertains since it would provide the most information. I don't see why you need me to spell this out though, it's common sense...

I guess I just find it a little strange that you only have two people you think are scum and two people you think are town and EVERYONE else is null.

Amrun · Post Post #492 (isolation #89) » Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:26 pm

It's not the sure part that I meant. It's that everyone else is just an in-between with no degree of scumminess or town-ness.

Amrun · Post Post #501 (isolation #90) » Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:04 pm

FF has attacked Exe plenty of times in this thread. SO is full of misrep.

Amrun · Post Post #507 (isolation #91) » Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:08 pm

Reasoning, or OMGUS?

Amrun · Post Post #512 (isolation #92) » Sun Feb 20, 2011 7:14 am

Still not liking the no-nightkill, so what does everyone else think?

Killing SO is fine, though... You're right. This is either scum or incredibad town.

Amrun · Post Post #523 (isolation #93) » Sun Feb 20, 2011 11:58 am

Okay, explain to me why I wouldn't be suspicious of someone whose arguments make NO SENSE AT ALL. Just because I agree with SO's kill targets does not mean that SO can't be scum, and saying so is actually scummy. What's important here is the line of reasoning, not the actual kill targets. In fact, I think it would be a good tactic for scum to choose mostly the same kill targets as the town's top town read (me, and I only say that because I got elected executioner), but then to come up with some new line of thinking to demonstrate so it doesn't look like sheeping. The fact that that "new line of thinking" makes just about ZERO SENSE is a scumtell, in my eyes.

As I have expressed SEVERAL TIMES, I still would rather kill Vezok, Shattered Viewpoint, Tragedy (in that order). StrungOver is now #4 on that list.

#4 doesn't mean LET'S KILL HIM!

However, as executioner, I feel it's my duty to tell people when someone becomes a viable kill in my eyes. I assume that the town will avoid asking me to kill my townreads. That's what I would do if someone else were the executioner.

Umbrage, you're really not making a hell of a lot more sense than SO anymore, which is a disappointment to me since I had a strong town read on you in the beginning of the game and agreed with a lot of what you said. That's gone out the window now. :/

Not sure what to say about this FF business. He is my top town read and all he's doing is pointing out the obvious logical fallacies in StrungOver's arguments... Of course I agree. Everyone should. Logical fallacies are logical fallacies, period.

Amrun · Post Post #527 (isolation #94) » Sun Feb 20, 2011 1:53 pm

Umbrage:

Way to not address the relavant parts of my post or Exe's. This has been your pattern of posting lately:

1) Accuse someone.

2) Accusee defends.

3) Respond only to the weakest part of the defense while ignoring all valid points/questions.

That is scummy.

I like how you accuse me of OMGUS when I didn't list you in my scumreads on THE SAME POST.

In your next post, explain in detail how SOKs arguments make sense and why you think he is town.

Amrun · Post Post #531 (isolation #95) » Sun Feb 20, 2011 2:50 pm

So his arguments are flawed, but he's town. Why do you think he's town?

Amrun · Post Post #534 (isolation #96) » Sun Feb 20, 2011 2:52 pm

Final Fires, we must share a brain.

I actually wish we weren't thinking so similarly on this because it does kind of look funny.

Oh well. Haha.

Amrun · Post Post #536 (isolation #97) » Sun Feb 20, 2011 3:03 pm

Tragedy: I'm inclined to agree with you on this.

However, I still need to see some more real content from you.

Amrun · Post Post #540 (isolation #98) » Sun Feb 20, 2011 6:07 pm

How about very basic questions? Will you refuse to respond to those too?

Please tell us why you think StrungOver is town.

Amrun · Post Post #566 (isolation #99) » Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:46 am

Finally, someone is totally on board with my plan. That's what I've been trying to say all along, Satael. Exe probably won't buy it.

Umbrage, refusing to refute good cases against you is just ... not town.

Amrun · Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:02 pm

Umbrage, how do you explain listing charter in your "minimal activity" list, stating that we should not kill people with little content as it's a crapshoot, and then proceeding to push a charter kill, all in the same post?

Amrun · Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:13 pm

charter, there's also been discussion of nightkills going on. It's not all about Umbrage.

And Tragedy FINALLY made a good post. She has moved a notch down on the scum list... but still, it was only to defend herself. SCUMHUNT, TRAGEDY!!

Amrun · Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:25 pm

Exe, you were the one attacking me early in the game for saying that 5 pages of content wasn't as good as 20 pages of content.

Plenty of stuff has gone down in the last 20 pages and I don't understand this flip-flop of yours.

Amrun · Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:36 pm

I asked you a question, Exe.

And no antecedents are actually in that Umbrage sentence, but yes, it is grammatically confused.

I am okay with no NK in specific situations like FF described above. In this situation, that seems viable.

Of course, I'd still rather kill vezok than either of them.

Amrun · Post Post #581 (isolation #104) » Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:41 pm

@Setael: if I get my way, I will be killing either vezok or SV today. What are your thoughts on vezok?

@Exe: Full question is one page back. On my phone right now.

Amrun · Post Post #583 (isolation #105) » Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:04 pm

I just don't see how accounting for flips in our choices doesn't avoid this.

Amrun · Post Post #586 (isolation #106) » Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:34 pm

How does ant connect?

Amrun · Post Post #589 (isolation #107) » Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:25 pm

I am not totally against no NK for tonight only, as I've said. You wanted no NK for every single night.

Amrun · Post Post #592 (isolation #108) » Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:46 pm

I think if Umbrage or SO is the kill, and the person flips town, no NK is viable.

It depends on the town's choice of "lynch."

Amrun · Post Post #598 (isolation #109) » Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:30 pm

Well, what was your reason for asking?

I'm assuming if I don't execute by deadline, then there is no execution.

Amrun · Post Post #604 (isolation #110) » Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:19 pm

What are your reads on SO?

Amrun · Post Post #606 (isolation #111) » Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:36 pm

I see. So your town read on SO is purely based on your scumread on SV?

That's also why I personally do not prefer an SO kill today, but if I am outnumbered, so be it. SO has come across scummy, for sure, and at the very least makes NO sense.

Amrun · Post Post #609 (isolation #112) » Mon Feb 21, 2011 7:40 pm

Rolefishing. Zing!

Amrun · Post Post #613 (isolation #113) » Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:33 pm

We don't know what scum can actually do yet... This is such a horrible idea.

I can't even believe what I'm reading, to be perfectly honest.

Amrun · Post Post #633 (isolation #114) » Tue Feb 22, 2011 3:25 pm

I like this plan.

vote for day: vezok

@mod: this is not an execution. Just being extra clear.

Amrun · Post Post #640 (isolation #115) » Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:44 pm

When everyone has voted, we'll do majority. I'd prefer unanimity but that will never happen.

Then we'll move on and start talking about night kill (or whether to have a night kill).

Amrun · Tue Feb 22, 2011 10:10 pm

Why do you think so, HC?

Amrun · Tue Feb 22, 2011 10:35 pm

I'm not entirely keen on killing him on day 1 myself, but I keep changing my mind on it and he is my top scumread. I didn't think he'd win so I threw it out there anyway.

But I'm seriously scared of some scum one-shot night ability that could fuck town (or not one-shot). :/

Amrun · Post Post #648 (isolation #118) » Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:34 am

That's a fair point, actually. HC, why Umbrage?

Tragedy, why Umbrage besides OMGUS?

Amrun · Post Post #651 (isolation #119) » Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:05 am

Of course, but we can all decide who we're going to vote for...

Amrun · Post Post #679 (isolation #120) » Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:20 pm

If everyone agrees on Exe's plan, I am okay with it.

I'm not going to lie... I don't really think that Umbrage is scum. Setael summed up nicely why I don't think Umbrage is scum. Of course, there are other points against him, some valid. I just don't think he's scum, but I don't have much to back that up besides my gut.

Town wants him dead, so I'll kill him. I just want it known that I don't fully support this.

Given the choice, though, the SO or SV nightkill makes sense.

Amrun · Post Post #682 (isolation #121) » Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:11 pm

That's the "valid point" I was talking about, of course.

If Umbrage flips scum, then SO is the obvious next choice.

But I had a town read on him before all that went down and something in my gut just tells me this isn't quite right. However, I see the logic behind it, so I'm not going to balk at town's decision.

Amrun · Post Post #695 (isolation #122) » Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:23 pm

@Umbrage: I already said why, if you would just read. I don't actually want to kill you, so no real need to go after me for it. Convince people who do.

@Setael: There is no official majority and no modcount. I don't know what you're talking about. This is an informal vote for me so that I feel like I won't be attacked if people disagree with my own choice. If most people want Umbrage dead, he will die. I am simply the one acting out town's wishes. I've made my feelings known.

Amrun · Post Post #705 (isolation #123) » Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:09 pm

I wish everyone would get to voting already.

I'm not killing Umbrage or anyone until everyone has voted.

Amrun · Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:50 pm

No, I just don't think EVERYONE did.

If you already did, then don't worry about it. Whose votes are we missing?

Amrun · Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:47 pm

Oh, I must have miscounted. Never mind! On to night kill discussion.

If Umbrage flips scum, we should go for SO for sure.

Amrun · Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:10 am

Obviously, my preference is vezok, quickly followed by SV.

Amrun · Post Post #727 (isolation #127) » Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:01 am

Ugh, Setael, it's like you don't listen.

I don't even want to kill Umbrage. I also think Umbrage is likely town.

But if Umbrage IS scum, then I don't see why you think that means SO is confirmed. Looks like you're trying to defend a possible scumbuddy to me. In a Satael/Umbrage/StrungOver scum team, of course you would want the flip of one to mean the other can't be scum.

I don't actually think you're scum, Satael, but you just lost some town points for sure. I just don't see it eye to eye with you on this. I can see a scum motivation in it, depending on future flips.

I like the idea of revoting to get on one of the top two wagons. They are Shattered Viewpoint and Umbrage, right?

Of course, then, I switch my vote to Shattered Viewpoint.

Amrun · Post Post #732 (isolation #128) » Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:25 am

@setael: I said we can move on to night discussion because everyone voted and Umbrage won. I don't have to bully people into agreeing with my reads. I made my points.

However, TS proposed a better plan and I'm on board.

Amrun · Post Post #758 (isolation #129) » Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:46 pm

I voted for FF for dayvig and I don't see a problem voting for him again for night vig.

Amrun · Post Post #759 (isolation #130) » Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:46 pm

I don't know why I called them vig. You know what I mean.

Amrun · Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:30 pm

SV, why do you care what other suspicions people had? Why do your reads depend on others...?

Amrun · Post Post #821 (isolation #132) » Sat Feb 26, 2011 2:17 pm

So NOW you think SO is scum, Umbrage?

Tragedy's "scumhunting like me" post made me laugh. Scummiest post from her yet.

I am fine with no NK if SV flips scum.

Amrun · Post Post #824 (isolation #133) » Sat Feb 26, 2011 2:34 pm

Are you admitting you're not scumhunting, Tragedy?

Amrun · Post Post #827 (isolation #134) » Sat Feb 26, 2011 2:47 pm

Tragedy, those are just excuses. You're not making much of an effort.

Amrun · Post Post #829 (isolation #135) » Sat Feb 26, 2011 4:28 pm

Whether you meant to or not, it really came off as defending SO, and the things you used to argue that he wasn't scummy / was town etc. were very selective, since you used opposite arguments on others.

I don't think all of that was your intention, but I do see why people are attacking that. You come off as genuine to me, but you have absolutely had faulty reasoning, which is a scumtell. I can't fault people for seeing it as scummy, really, even if I disagree.

Amrun · Post Post #833 (isolation #136) » Sat Feb 26, 2011 5:15 pm

I see no link between SV and SO. Care to elaborate?

Amrun · Post Post #837 (isolation #137) » Sat Feb 26, 2011 6:34 pm

You have flip flopped SO much on StrungOver.

Amrun · Post Post #853 (isolation #138) » Mon Feb 28, 2011 6:32 am

Answering Umbrage's question:

It depends. On night one? Well, that probably indicates that the executor (me, in this case) would be lying, since town definitely outnumbers scum (unless this is a bastard game).

Later on down the line, it would depend.

p-edit: Giving up, SV...? Are you claiming scum? I don't understand.

Amrun · Post Post #874 (isolation #139) » Mon Feb 28, 2011 6:16 pm

Okay, we want the kill NOW?

I'm going to vote for Final Fires at night. Just saying it now.

If I get the night kill, I'm killing vezokpiraka. If you don't want me to do that, vote for someone else. I would have done what we all elected to do at night, but I am entirely unclear on what that is, so this is my announcement of what I will do should I be elected as night killer.

I'm also feeling like this day won't get any better the more we drag it out.

Execute: Shattered Viewpoint

Amrun · Post Post #887 (isolation #140) » Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:46 am

Okay, what the fuck.

I was the night killer and I said I'd kill vezok... I killed vezok.

My suspicion of vezok is WELL documented.

I was very clear and open about what I was going to do. If that isn't what you wanted me to do, then you shouldn't have voted for me!

I voted for Final Fires, personally.

Amrun · Post Post #890 (isolation #141) » Sat Mar 05, 2011 5:00 am

The TOWN was NOT clear on what I should do. I knew that you, personally, wanted a no-kill, Exe. No one else I was clear on.

There were a ton of other people you should have and could have voted for if you didn't want vezok to die.

I was surprised to be elected a night killer after that, honestly. If I'm really killed for this, I'll feel pretty betrayed. I tricked no one. I was very open. I didn't twist people's arms to vote for me. I was wrong on my read of vezok, obviously, but that doesn't make me scum.

Amrun · Post Post #892 (isolation #142) » Sat Mar 05, 2011 5:07 am

And it just occurred to me that scum, of course, knew that vezok wasn't scum, probably all voted for me, and will probably lie about it.

Lovely.

I should have thought of that a little sooner...

Amrun · Post Post #897 (isolation #143) » Sat Mar 05, 2011 6:22 am

That is, at most, 4/11 people... NOT the majority! Who knew! I also missed several of those.

And I AM sorry that I killed vezok, now, of course... I was certain he was scum.

I understand coming under some pressure after the flip, but everyone would be praising me if vezok had turned out to be scum, as I thought would happen.

However, just flat out deciding to kill me is ... strange. Had I NOT announced I would kill vezok, or had I claimed I would do something else, I could understand better.

Even in those cases, I would hope more discussion would happen. Just deciding on something so quickly completely eliminates scumhunting.

Amrun · Post Post #915 (isolation #144) » Sat Mar 05, 2011 9:51 am

So, Final Fires, you voted for me even though you didn't want me to kill vezok? And now you want to kill me for doing exactly what I professed to do?

Everyone was asking for the end of the day, saying it was dragging on and nothing was being accomplished. I, too, thought this, so I ended the day UPON REQUEST. I wouldn't have done it if people hadn't asked me to.

Since I was asked to end it, I told people what I would do if elected executioner. Lo and behold, I was elected executioner. I did what I said I would do.

In hindsight, it's clear now that people weren't okay with it, so I wish I had not done this. I didn't know that at the time, though.

And for the record, had I thought vezok would actually claim, I would have let her. It seemed to me like she wasn't going to claim no matter what.

Amrun · Sat Mar 05, 2011 11:17 am

It's not a lie. She offered to claim, but seemed very unwilling to actually back up that offer.

It is what it is. I see now that what I have done is stupid. I wasn't giving this game 100% at the time I ended the day ... but for the record, SOME people (like charter) did very much want me to end the day.

At some point during the night, I thought, "Why didn't I wait more?" and had no good answer for this besides in the moment, I was impatient, but I couldn't fix it at that point. I just had to continue with what I had told everyone I would do.

Amrun · Post Post #954 (isolation #146) » Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:15 pm

I like how everyone is pretending I disobeyed the town.

Everyone wanted me to end the day. There was NO CONSENSUS ABOUT WHAT I SHOULD DO AT NIGHT. At most 4 people wanted me to no-kill out of 11, and I didn't even remember all of those 4 people at the time.

Since everyone wanted me to end the day and they knew I wanted to kill my top scum read (vezok), I assumed that is ALSO WHAT THEY WANTED.

But JUST IN CASE, I made it perfectly kill that this is what I would do, JUST SO EVERYONE WOULD KNOW AND NO ONE WOULD BE SURPRISED.

And then today, it's all like "wah wah wah, you disobeyed town."

No, I did not.

I have done exactly what town wanted me to do.

I thought, VERY MUCH, that vezok was scum. Clearly I was wrong, but I really thought that.

In hindsight, I wished I had no killed because I was wrong, but there was no "consensus" that I should no kill. IT DID NOT EXIST.

And TS, don't pretend like you didn't push the re-vote. You definitely did.

Amrun · Post Post #957 (isolation #147) » Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:27 am

I should clarify. I did exactly what I THOUGHT town wanted me to do. I was wrong, but I really don't see how NO ONE understands my position? There was no unity over what I should do at night. I guess people implicitly agreed with Exe, who wanted no NK, but WHY DID YOU ALL NOT SAY SO? Only a couple of you did. Why am I supposed to assume you're all going to sheep Exe? Then, you all pushed for me to end the day. I didn't know whom everyone wanted me to NK since they wanted me to kill SV during the day. If I had executed Umbrage, my night plan was to not kill if he turned up town, but I didn't automatically assume it was the same thing for SV, since that plan was EXPLICITLY based on the day's interactions and the possibilities of Umbrage's scumbuddies. SV, on the other hand, had very few connections so I didn't see why this plan should extend to him.

Not giving me the opportunity to speak is scummy in and of itself. Why would you not want to see how people react to what I say, if you were that convinced I was scum?

You should hope to find my scumbuddies scrambling to my defense, if you truly think I'm scum this much ... unless you know I'm town and you don't want anything to get in the way of this mislynch.

Amrun · Post Post #959 (isolation #148) » Sun Mar 06, 2011 3:22 am

I was willing to kill Umbrage with 6 votes because everyone had voted and Umbrage had the most votes.

Not everyone asked to end the day, but lots of people did, and it seemed to me like a majority at the time. I will go quote it later. Busy now.

Amrun · Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:22 am

"Oh, Amrun has disappeared, she's obvscum."

Town has made it blatantly clear that they will not listen to anything I have to say, so what is the point in saying it?

Amrun · Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:56 am

What else can I do?

I've explained my reasoning fully.

I am pretty sure that NO ONE is willing to take my word for it or even attempt to see my point of view, or at the very least, not enough to let me off the hook.

Normally I would fight a bit harder, but I am having severe internet problems. I try to read along, but posting from my phone is a pain in the ass.

Amrun · Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:17 am

Isn't it obvious that if I'm town, you're probably not?

Why should I have to spell that out?

Amrun · Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:20 am

Actually, I really think that Setael should be looked at regardless of flip. Not wanting to hear what I have to say is not pro-town, period.

I was a lot more prepared to fight in the beginning of this day, and to be perfectly honest, you kind of disheartened me.

Not because I'm scum and giving up, because I'm not, but because you weren't treating me with respect as a player -- and NO ONE said anything about it.

That's tacit agreement.

I'm not really super motivated to pour a lot of effort into a game that allows a player to be treated like that.

Amrun · Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:33 am

I didn't just claim scum.

I'm just saying that were I another player besides myself, I would look more closely at you as a player, Setael.

When I flip town, that part of the game would play itself.

But if I were someone else and watched this scenario play out and Amrun flipped scum, I would not give you conftown status, which is what I think you are gunning for.

That's what I meant.

Amrun · Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:53 am

Townies are obviously Puritans. It's set in Puritan times with Puritan witch hunts.

Amrun · Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:11 am

What I meant was after it was clear everyone was upset, I was trying to defend myself, but I really didn't like the nature of your attacks. I don't appreciate being called a VI, etc.

It doesn't really matter. I would have fought a lot more if I hadn't been travelling to a place with zero fucking internet. (I thought there would be internet... FAIL.) Circumstances happen sometimes.

And I've already said it's obvious that we are playing a game about PURITANS.

Amrun · Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:05 pm

Puritans and pilgrims actually literally are the same thing.

I'm not really seeing the hullabaloo about it.

Amrun · Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:54 am

VOTE: Exe

Why not.

Amrun · Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:23 pm

Oh, a vote tampering ability...?

Why would someone have a vote tampering ability in this game?

That's quite interesting.

I don't even know what to make of it.

I have no idea what alignment it would be. Hmm.

Amrun · Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:34 pm

Why would it be Umbrage?

If Umbrage had an ability, I doubt TS would be his target. He's been pushing FF and Exe too hard to target some random.

But then again, maybe he would, as I can't make hide nor tail of the ability itself.

Amrun · Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:39 pm

Oh, that makes sense, Exe. I was seriously confused, actually.

Amrun · Fri Mar 11, 2011 3:59 am

Who's the scum with the dayvote ability? Game suddenly got interesting again.

Amrun · Fri Mar 11, 2011 8:12 am

Set, I suppose it could be a town doublevoter, but with the mechanic of this game, wouldn't it be more beneficial to scum to control the executioner votes?

Idk just a guess.

Amrun · Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:08 am

I'm not sure what htey were doing is exactly lining up lynches.

This game is unique, you know. Certain changes to gameplay must be made.

Amrun · Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:27 pm

I actually think Umbrage is town.

SO might be a VI. His play is super scummy but it doesn't really make sense from either alignment, tbh.

Out of the two, SO is more likely to be scum, so I vote for him.

I finally have internet again.

Amrun · Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:55 pm

I addressed SO's scumminess previously, so I am not going to re-iterate.

I might make a better case when I'm less tired, but for now, just iso me. Also, Final Fires made a good case on him that I agreed with.

SO's play can't be described as anything BUT scummy -- but it's so scummy that it makes me think maybe VI? Too scummy to be scum is a terrible argument, too big of a risk, so I say go for it.

Plus, the question was this: Umbrage or SO? Certainly between the two I say SO.

Amrun · Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:56 pm

I meant to mention that if I could get anyone executed for scumminess as I see it, it would be you, Setael. Also already been addressed, at least somewhat.

You were pushing for a quick end to day with ZERO discussion. Very scummy.

Amrun · Wed Mar 16, 2011 3:01 am

The main reason is how you tried so hard to shut down the discussion about me.

Scum framed me and tried to get me killed before everyone thought about it too hard.

1+1=2

And you've expressed willingness/interest in no NK, and you didn't want any discussion about the day execution. How is that not pushing for an uneventful, uninformative, probably short, day?

Amrun · Wed Mar 16, 2011 7:36 am

No, seriously, have you READ SO's posts?

It's not that he posts infrequently -- IT'S WHAT HE SAYS.

ISO him. You will be baffled.

Amrun · Wed Mar 16, 2011 8:37 am

I revoke your caps locks privileges.

That ought to be an ability.

Scum probably lying about votes doesn't clear you. Get over it, sorry.

And I NEVER lied, ever. Don't say I lied when I didn't.

I killed the cop, but if you'll remember, HE WAS ALSO YOUR TOP SCUM READ.

Amrun · Wed Mar 16, 2011 8:56 am

Umbrage wrote:WHY THE HELL ARE WE NOT KILLING AMRUN?

I DON'T CARE IF YOU THINK SHE IS SCUM OR TOWN, SHE IS THE KILL TODAY.

SHE BETRAYED THE TOWN. SHE KILLED THE DOC.

I did not betray town. I did exactly what I professed I would do.

By your own logic, you betrayed the town in the same way that I did, so you should be killed also.

Amrun · Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:32 am

What does SV have to do with anything?

Amrun · Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:39 am

Why answer for Umbrage, Tragedy?

Amrun · Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:35 pm

It was kind of a hasty decision. People were calling for the end of the day, and I was like, well, I want to kill vezok-scum, but I better warn them first!

I just figured if people didn't want me to do it, they wouldn't vote for me. In hindsight, I should have thought about it more. I just thought that if people didn't want that, they'd vote for their top town read besides me, which I honestly thought would pretty universally be Final Fires, whom I voted for myself.

I made too many assumptions. I see that now. I normally think about things a lot before doing them, but in that moment, I didn't fully think about how people would be confused and not knowing who to vote for. I realized some things a little later, after I thought about it more, but it was too late then, so when I got elected, I went ahead and did what I said I'd do.

Amrun · Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:30 pm

I realized I should have given my alternative and/or waited for vezok to claim. I really didn't think vezok would claim, but I should have waited.

And I should have STATED that the alternative was Final Fires... I thought it was obvious, but later, I realized I should have said it.

Amrun · Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:00 pm

If you're not going to bother playing or putting in effort, why sign up, SO?

Amrun · Wed Mar 16, 2011 6:45 pm

Umbrage wants SO to explain his reads.

Amrun · Thu Mar 17, 2011 4:34 am

It's my 21st birthday, and the fun starts now, so I'll be very scarce this weekend.

Will stop in, post if necessary. Just a fair warning.

Amrun · Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:21 pm

I'm good with FF for the night kill, as usual.

Amrun · Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:01 am

Umbrage, STOP with the caps.

Control yourself.

Stop acting like a five year old.

It has to be so much MORE of a pain in the ass to type in caps and NO good comes out of it.

If you want your points to be heard and addressed, QUIT.

Amrun · Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:40 pm

I voted for Exe.

VOTE: Ant

Ant, you can't vote for yourself.

Exe broke his promise and is now trying to wriggle out of it.

Amrun · Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:54 pm

Oh, I didn't know that. Cool.

I trust you, ant, so it's all good.

Amrun · Thu Mar 24, 2011 3:13 pm

I never lied to town about what I was going to do. You did, Exe.

End of story.

Amrun · Fri Mar 25, 2011 4:58 am

Ant_to_the_max wrote:
Tragedy wrote:Wait, if Ant is doublevoter, shouldn't the Witch be killing him instead? I find this disturbing, to the fact that he's still alive today after 2 Nights.
Aww...why did you have to go and twist that up? Or bring it up at all? Tsk tsk tsk.
They only knew about me for this last night. Although FF became more of a confirmed townie yesterday then me. And thing about it, if I was scum, this game would be over right now.

Why would the game be over?

And I read this as, "If scum had a night ability, why wouldn't they have killed Ant, the double-voter?"

I'm not sure what Tragedy actually meant as Ant's reply brought up a different possibility.

It did make me think, though...

Why WOULDN'T they? Ant is basically confirmed town, and idk why Ant said FF was, but FF wasn't.

FF was also Exe's biggest competition / least supporter after Umbrage.

Hmm.

Amrun · Fri Mar 25, 2011 5:30 am

So don't care about your annoyance.

Amrun · Fri Mar 25, 2011 5:28 pm

Setael:

I realized that I should have given the town more time to weigh in, despite people calling for day end.

I did NOT consider the idea that scum was voting for me because I really thought vezok was scum.

In hindsight, I feel quite silly, but what do you want me to say? I thought if I got the nightkill, most of town voted for me because scum wouldn't vote me to kill their scumbuddy.

Obviously, I was wrong.

Amrun · Sat Mar 26, 2011 12:44 pm

I just remembered Exe's "execution" of me that also failed.

Care to explain?

Amrun · Sun Mar 27, 2011 7:36 pm

Yeah, sorry to be the outlier, but I want Exe dead. I don't believe him at all.

Okay with Set being night executioner.

Amrun · Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:53 am

TS for sure, since his (first?) Gambit he used to "clear" TS.

Tragedy remains as scummy as ever so that wouldn't surprise me either. Also, didn't she sheep/trust him early on?

Amrun · Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:55 am

If one of those is wrong, I'd pick charter. If THAT is wrong, I'd pick HC.

Amrun · Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:35 am

Even if you're telling the truth about the daykill, I don't believe you about the nightkill and I think you're scum.

Amrun · Mon Mar 28, 2011 6:10 pm

But how did you supposedly NOT KNOW someone had been elected?

And you've been arrogant as hell straight out of the gate... It's kind of funny that you're using "I'm not that arrogant" as a defense.

Amrun · Mon Mar 28, 2011 6:22 pm

"Too arrogant" doesn't make sense in that context.

And there was a mod scene about Ant being elected.

Amrun · Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:30 am

Just pretty sure? Haha.

Amrun · Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:36 am

I made no promises I did not keep and I never lied. I made a bad decision but I really thought vezok was scum. That's basically all I can say for myself.

Of course you would want me executed, Tragedy, because if I were mislynched now, that could very well be game over scum wins.

Me before Exe is your preferred execution, eh?

Amrun · Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:44 am

You insinuated that I should be lynched now since it was missed out on before. I don't see how I could read that post any other way.

Amrun · Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:54 am

You thought I should be lynched now?

Amrun · Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:49 am

I'm very confused with what you're trying to say and why it's in bold all of a sudden.

Amrun · Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:00 am

Well, it seems that people have analyzed night 1 votes and figured it's unlikely that I was scum, with the votes. That's also a reason you are coming under suspicion, but not the only one.

I wish I had thought of that defense yesterday.

Amrun · Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:22 am

Night 1, not night 2. I doubt anyone voted for me last night. I would be amazed too, haha.