Execution Mafia GAMEOVER!

[Twistedspoon]

Hey guys, It's twistedspoon here

Here's to a fun game

anyways, reading the posts Exe seems to have everything under control; his ideas make the most sense

First week: Decide executioner
Second week: Decide who executioner kills
Third week: Decide who gets nightkill, and who they will kill with it.

Your timetable idea seems interesting, however the chance of play might not flow so smoothly. I mean deciding the executioner is probably one of the bigger decisions, and that could be tricky when we only have one week to do so. Hopefully the mafia will slip up and then we can get the executioner to hammer them. The biggest problem would be voting a mafia witch as executioner. Steps would have to be taken to avoid this, because if a mafia is the executioner, then it's certain a townie pilgrim will die, but if we have a townie executioner there is always a chance that he'll pick mafia.

This is the way I see it going down.

Each person should keep a (small) list of their top suspects that they are willing to kill. (Exe's idea here)

This idea looks promising
should help us to keep track and pressure any mafioso who may be listed

I would recommend, at least for now that we don't choose the same executioner for both the day and night phase.

This makes sense since it can be hardest to get reads on players in the first day, so hedging the votes in one possible mafioso might be unwise.

Here are 3 possible outcomes (I have speculated on roles)

Best case scenario

mafioso executed and mafioso nightkilled. No protection roles for mafia. Possible Investigative role reveals mafia scum for day 2 execution

fair scenario

mafioso nominated executioner and executes townie. Mafioso executioner is nightkilled due to killing townie. possible investigative role recieves an innocent verdict

bad scenario

townie is executed by townie executioner. Townie executioner is nightkilled. Executed townie had investigative or protective role :[

[Twistedspoon]

twistedspoon strikes me as someone who knows too much. Why would there be an investigative role or some type of doctor? How are you so certain of that?

I'm completely uncertain, which is why it's just speculation. I'm not fishing at all, just showing what the worst case scenario could be. In my experience it never hurts to assume what the worst possible damage could be done is so that we're prepared for all eventualities.
I doubt even the mafia know what roles there are

and I'm not sheeping, I just agree with the ideas that we should not vote for the same person as executioner and killer, and the schedule idea

[Twistedspoon]

If you claim it's too early for a read, I

will

add you to the top of my kill list.

Is this supposed to intimidate me into agreement? I don't like this emotional blackmail tactic.

Trying to get players to follow your ideas or else be put on your hit list is a mafia ruse.
You might want to try hearing some other opinions of scum tracking before the threat of listing us.

Oh, and those eventualities I posted were just 3 possible ones which may happen. It's a

big

generalisation to assume that an executioner who kills a townie is certainly mafia, and I wouldn't lynch them unless I was sure that they had another reason to be suspected mafioso.
It was 3 generalised scenarios out of a plethora of possibilities. There is clearly much more to this than those.

Anyways, I'll be re-reading the topic again shortly and compiling my witch-list.

I also hope that any players who haven't posted yet do so; they shall remain on the top of my suspicions list until they do so.
~Twistedspoon

[Twistedspoon]

My kill list:

1. Twistedsppon (sheeping by any other name...)
2. vezok (more sheeping. SRSLY just STOP)
3. COOLDOG (specifically mentioning the "odd mechanic" of the game. Dude, you knew that when you signed up. Stop being so obvscum.)

Vote: Exe

Exe = Smart.

Second, I like Exe.

this is not sheeping and I am? seriously. I just said that my ideas were similar to Exe's. It's useful to know the thoughts and ideas of the other players otherwise they might as well not be players.

Third, I'm pretty sure Axe is scum.

Care to say why? or is this baseless conjecture which you're trying to distill into our minds through a kind of reverse freudian slip?
Seriously, you might want to give reasons here if you want to help us execute a witch

anyways, I'd like to see more Umbrage, Amrun and Strungover posting before I make my witch shortlist; it's ridiculous to assume you can make a comprehensive one when we have 0-2 posts from these players

For now I'll

vote:Final Fires

since he seems the most organised of the players here

@StrungOver: not sure a mass claim would be too good mate. The witches could claim any half-baked role and we wouldn't know any better :/
That's just my thought though :s

[Twistedspoon]

EBWOP: In my above post I asked strungover to post more; this was before his above post, so ignore that.

It's just umbrage and Amrun who've had 0-1 posts and we need more of a read on

[Twistedspoon]

TS, you are pretty eager to point a finger at whoever you can find, aren't you?

Not at all really; quite the opposite.

Seriously quite the opposite

As opposite as you can get

Have i not just been arguing the whole time that it's too early to be pointing fingers?

Sure, questions can lead to fingers but only if you're hiding something, which is why that's my preferred choice of ammo.
Quite the converse to the tactic of 'Post your scumlists now before we have even had all of the players post or die' that you have chosen to adopt.

seriously, i think we can at least wait for us all to post before we make scumlists, that's all I'm arguing.
We have 3.5 weeks, no? stalling might give the mafia advantage in some situations, but making rushed decisions from little conclusive evidence is far worse, isn't it?

So we must agree to disagree here.

as for your mudslinging conjecture; I was merely questioning the player's definition of sheeping; I felt wrongly accused of it, so it's only fair to defend myself isn't it?

[Twistedspoon]

@TS: You're trying way too hard to be nonconfrontational. I don't like it.

I'm sorry you don't like it, but that's the way I choose to play until i feel that I can make a reliable conclusion.
Hopefully we can look beyond our different methods of scum hunting and work towards the interests of the town

But don't worry, I'll be confrontational when the time comes

The case on twistedspork is: sheeping, rolefishing, and blatant buddying.

I have already said what I have to say to your sheeping claims, and tbh there is little difference between sheeping and buddying, unless you've found a post somewhere where I say that I'll stick by another player till death do us part :/
I haven't buddied/sheeped anyone. My vote was entirely independent, and that's what counts. I have merely stated my opinions and how they are in some ways similar to that of other players. I have also made it clear where they contrast too. In the interests of the town I have requested that the players who have yet to post do so, so that we can get a read on them.

Rolefishing? really? I don't recall saying 'so who's the doc here then?' or anything along those lines, not like it would be of any help to us if they were confused enough to reveal their role so early. :/

anyways, that's it for me today
~Twistedspoon

[Twistedspoon]

But really people. The amount of people rushing on this wagon is disturbing.

This is probably the most sensible thing I've read so far.
At the rate this wagon it was like Lord of the Flies wagon hysteria:/

Very disturbing indeed to give one player so much power so early.

twisted needs to be less scummy. Or less Nooby. Whichever.

Coming from SV this is really something. My tactic was to make a judgement where there was enough evidence to make a conclusive one, and give everyone a chance to show their scum colours before passing judgement. Reckless wagoning on page 2 is not how I operate

@Amrun: I must have missed the post about vezok fishing. I'll have to go back and check. I agree with your vote for FF since he does have an element of unspoken trust to him, and he does seem organised.
@FF: I would like to hear of your suspicions since I am voting for you. It'd be meaningless to vote a player when only who they execute is what matters.

Amrun, while giving a full and complete set of reads, does need to participate more from now on. Lurking, then posting one huge post, then lurking again (IF it happens) is unacceptable.

@SV: Wow, forget that Amrun had a perfectly legit excuse and had only posted 16 minutes previously. I'm noticing a habit of you being quick to point fingers, SV. I also find it quite rude to assume that a player will be lurking the the future for tactical reasons when they have posted a viable reason as to their absence and you didn't even answer any of her accusations.
If mudslinging was an art....

Rushing things increases the chance of error, and is scummy

I want scum reads NOW. If you claim it's too early for a read, I

will

add you to the top of my kill list.

Comes to mind

And everyone trusting one player is stupid.

Less talk, more Exe voting.

Anyways, I'll be posting my opinions on players up to this point shortly.

[Twistedspoon]

The only ones who should fear my power are the scum.

Or a townie who you believe to be scum?

SCUM MAKE ERRORS. TOWN SHOULD KNOW WTF THEY WANT AND THEREFORE SHOULD BE NATURALLY PRO-TOWN IN THEIR INTENTIONS.
ERGO WE SHOULD RUSH THINGS SO SCUM MAKE ERRORS.

This fails to eliminate the possibility of a townie making errors. It would be catastrophic if say we took this assumption as true and that any player who makes an error is scum. Then after 1 small error the player would

have

to be scum since only mafia make errors
Besides, half of us would be mafia if that were true. Nearly all players have sheeped/mudslinged or done something erroneous in some form.

This could also be a scum tactic since they could argue your logic and then they'd have a stranglehold on any townie who slipped up using your logic. WIFOM with intimidation to me.

P-P-Edit: WHY AM I NOT THE EXECUTIONER YET GAWD.

Does it really matter, It's only day 3, or are you accustomed to being in a position of power. Why are you so hungry and desperate to be executioner? It's surely scum who would most want to have the power of execution.

[Twistedspoon]

EBWOP: Messed up with my quoting; Forget that huge Exe quote :/

[Twistedspoon]

It's surely scum who would most want to have the power of execution.

ROFL. Craplogic is crap.

interested in explaining why?

Scum will know for sure who to kill whereas townies will always have some doubt as to who is scum. Execution is therefore a far more dangerous weapon in the hands of mafia.

Aside from this small quote there's little else worth mentioning from your last post. It mostly seems intimidation fuel for those that won't blindly follow you. I'm not intimidated though, just surprised that we're arguing in caps lock now. I'm going to take a break before Godwin's law explodes.
but of course, taking breaks is for scum
~Twistedspoon

[Twistedspoon]

Is it just me, or does Exe remind anyone of Stalin on steroids?

This has absolutely nothing to do with who WANTS the power more.

P-P-Edit: WHY AM I NOT THE EXECUTIONER YET GAWD.

Sure sounds like it to me

anyways, I have no interest in playing against someone whose best argument is power-hungry caps lock. This makes an execution seem all the more appealing. You'll know I'm truly town then; but it'll be too late.

I think someone should revoke your caps lock privileges.

I take my previous, statement back. This is the most sensible thing I've heard all topic

How am I trying to "appear original?"

The logic of Exe:

New ideas = Appearing original = scum
Same ideas = Sheeping = Scum

This is a joke. Any logic you had at the start has turned into some warped kind of dictatorship in which any free-thinkers or similar ideas are scum.
I reccomend you stop trying to dictate the tempo of the game here, Exe. You're doing us townies no favours with your narrow-minded nonsense.
But who am I to question Soviet General Exe
~ Twistedspoon

Oh, and I want some StrungOver opinions and posting. He's doing a pretty good job at flying under the radar. No-one seems to have mentioned him much yet. ._.

[Twistedspoon]

and partially for the general feel of flailing that I'm getting from his posts.

If I wanted to flail there's a nice button below the tab key that i'd use

I agree with TS's statement about StrungOver.

Indeed, the one thing we cannot afford is a player to slip under the radar

Can everyone post a top Suspect in a visible manner? I wanna see how things are shaping up.

no prizes for guessing mine

Exe makes a slip and outs himself as obvscum?

Does this mean you suspect Exe more now?

I don't want to invoke Godwin's Law, so I'll compare him to Stalin instead.

This is hilarious. (I am also writing an essay on Lenin/Kerensky right now, so this is doubly amusing)

lol, that wasn't how I put it, but points for comedic exploitation. It's quite funny when you put it that way.

@Umbrage: Why don't you go form the Let's Waste A Fuckton Of Time Arguing About Who Should Be The Executioner Club, and leave the rest of us to focus on the important aspects of the game?

I'd have said that the executioner was an important aspect since they choose who lives and dies, and are trusted with much power. I assume you're more interested with talking about who should be executed though from your post. It's the decision between executer and executed that's important. Which to we delegate more time towards deciding? A case could be made for executor since they are decided by the whole town, whereas the executed is completely down to the executor themselves and could entirely ignore who the town believe should get the chop. However, In the end it's the executions that decide the play of the game and which side take the lead.


I really think Exe suits the colour red. I'd very much like it if you statred to post in red, Exe

To finish off, I want to hear the suspicions of Final Fires, Cool Dog and StrungOver. Especially Final fires since he looks to be a contender for the executioner role.
At the moment I don't know what to think of Vezo and Tragedy. To be honest, I haven't really had a chance to study or think about them with all the mess dumped on myself

[Twistedspoon]

The executioner is only going to execute who we tell them to execute. If they execute somebody else, then we kill them as soon as possible.

This is fine if we assume the town all want an execution of the same person (or at least a majority)
In cases of an even split things get more complicated, and the executioner's own bias could become a factor, especially if mafioso.

If we haven't elected an executioner in 24 hours, then everybody who obstructs that process is going to shoot right up my scumlist.

Surely everyone could be accused of obstructing since we'd have no majority :/
how are you going to define obstructing the election? Best to clarify this now before we start accusing :/

I chose Exe because he seemed reasonably pro-town. I

Why past tense?

Requesting vote count please.

Also, prod CoolDog if appropriate; I haven't been checking when he last posted, I just don't have an impression of him.

have fun in Russian history class

[Twistedspoon]

How could twisted have responded to that without revealing whether she..

Uh, just though I might mention that I'm a he..

anyways, I've got a lot to read since I've been asleep and at school, so I'll try and catch up

[Twistedspoon]

EBWOP: ignore my last post, I've read further now :/

[Twistedspoon]

It's probably more because me and Haschel are awesome. I haven't played with Exe before, but he seems pretty awesome too.

Can I call this buddying?

Twisted: Rolefishing in his

very first post.

I'm sorry if you think that, but i never meant to role fish, and even now it would be a suicidal tactic. There would be no motivation for me to rolefish, and that was certainly what i did nor what I intended to do. Metinks if you want a rolefisher there's a more suitable candidate.

@TS: Would YOU be hungry for the execution power?

No. 2 power-hungry players would make this game even less enjoyable.
I agree with Haschel's theory. Executioner doesn't matter too much unless one is blinded by egotism and doesn't represent the town's opinions.

If we don't kill any one today it gives our PRs a better idea of who's who.

Somehow StrungOver is flying under the radar. Why was this post

completely

ignored? It's odd how some of you only have eyes for a few players. Surely tunneling. We need a read on everyone, we can't spend 3 weeks chasing only the top 3 of Exe. To answer SO's question,

how do you know there are any PRs?

I can't believe everyone missed this. Surely I should live since I actually care to read every posts and not let players fly under the radar. All players need to be evaluated.

And finally;

He's had virtually no pressure

@TS: I'd say you have about 3 posts to show me why you should live.

Ladies n Gents, vote Exe for office and I'll give you a TS on a plate.

Sure, no pressure

[Twistedspoon]

And then TS doesn't ask for his opinions on anything, just leaves it very vague, so I get the impression he doesn't care about SO's opinions, but wants the spotlight off of himself.

I'm sorry, but if you haven't noticed, I've not had a chance to do so.

I've had to defend myself all game

It's hard trying to help the town when constantly having to defend yourself too. However I have tried my best, posting opinions, asking questions and stopping players from flying under the radar. I want every player to be considered for when we decide on our kills; we can't afford to let any slip away, as was going to happen if I had not alerted you.
I consider myself an active poster, but It would do the town no good if I posted 100 times a day If each time I was forced to defend myself and make no progress. >_>
considering this your reason lacks plausibility.

[Twistedspoon]

I've been meaning to give some attention to SO,

well I wasn't really asking for a case, I just didn't want to be the only person remembering his existence. :s
It would be hard to make a case on SO when he only has like 4 short posts as of now.

My primary concern was how SO knew of PRs, or why he assumed we should base our strategy and time management over something we don't even know exist. That's just odd to say the least

[Twistedspoon]

I still want to hear what TS has to say for himself.

Since 90% of my posts have really been defences of my self I've had to make I don't really have much left to say.

My best defence is that I'm town and therefore you shouldn't kill me, however I can't make you believe this. Really, no combination of characters posted in this space are likely for you to say 'Hang on, surely TS isn't certain scum'
What else? The only reason one should execute is to remove mafioso. This is why even though Exe might be gunning for me, even if I die it might be in the interests of the town if Exe lives, and that's why I'm not interested in an Exe kill at this point, Just because he wants to kill me, It doesn't mean he's mafioso.
I'm sorry Umbrage, but a better reason than Exe's playing style will be needed for me to want to kill him in good conscience.
I don't oppose Exe and won't do until I believe him to be mafia. Killing a VT is bad indeed. This is why neither Exe or myself should be killed at this time.
Anyways, aside from that I could post other reasons as to why my I've been helpful, but no reason is more solid or important than the fact that I'm town.

I rest my defence for hopefully the last time
~Twistedspoon

[Twistedspoon]

Good news:

TS isn't dying.

Super. This is good news for the town indeed.
Maybe now I can follow a few leads of my own since I'm not defending myself =D

I propose a new majorly suspicious person:

StrungOver

.
S/he's been mostly avoiding

prods

and not helping us out here.

--

Is it just me or vezok's rising the scum-dar but somehow town too?

C'mon I'm the one who proposed SO.
but i don't really care who proposed it. I'd like to see him following the tempo a little more and maybe post a few opinions.
And your ideas of the responses would be useful too, Tragedy. No point asking questions if you don't use the responses, if you see what I mean

anyways, It's night here in the UK, so I'll see you guys tommorow hopefully
~ Twistedspoon

[Twistedspoon]

Just woken, will read topic again when I return from school

@TS: I see, I see. You're sexiness has now risen by 2%.

Oh and a last note before I go for awhile.

@TS: If you really are town, I hope you'll take this to heart. If you are under attack, try to focus more on finding scum than defending yourself. The best way to prove yourself town is to be pro-town, and being pro-town means scumhunting. Just a tip.

Thanks Exe. I've realised that the loss of the mafia benefits the town much more than the keeping of one townie. That's why is far more important that I don't get caught up in defending myself, and remember to concentrate on my scum hunting/questioning. The advantage that the mafia has is that sometimes the town forget they're playing as a team with a team win condition. If each townie merely defended himself then we'd get nowhere. That's why I've attempted to use questions in my defences too. I really appreciate the advice, Exe.

Later
~Twistedspoon

[Twistedspoon]

In other news, I'm entertained that TS is closer to understanding the logic of my playstyle than Umbrage and Amrun will ever be. And he's the alleged "newb" lol. Bravo to you, sir.

Thanks
I'm a quick learner I guess

anyways, I just want to do this now before I forget.

Prod StrungOver please

I'll try to post later today
~Twistedspoon

[Twistedspoon]

Fine

I voted FF, and he voted Amrun, so I see no problem in switching my vote. VOTE: Amrun

Like Hascel said, It doesn't matter who the executioner is too much anyways, since it's in their interests that they execute the town's choice.

[Twistedspoon]

Vote: Amrun

I already did this on page 13, but it seems to have gone ignored :/

[Twistedspoon]

EBWOP: FF posted that my vote was forgotten to be counted as well. Thanks

Hypothetically, say we elect a scum executioner, and the majority of the town wants to kill one of their scumbuddies.

We need to do our best to avoid getting a scum executioner in the first place. I mean they'll arrive at a dichotomy when the town want one of their mafioso buddies to die, and the chances are they won't kill their scumbuddy unless they want to be bussing from day 1 :/

[Twistedspoon]

but something else doesn't seem right in this game at the moment.

Care to share?

[Twistedspoon]

I strongly encourage you to leave Vezo alive. I've played with him as scum, and frankly he can't fake an attitude very well. I honestly think he's just pulling rookie mistakes here.

Could it possibly be WIFOM? You'd know best since, like you say, you've played with him before.

I would be fine with his death, but it might not be a necessity.

Contradiction? The only way a townie should be fine with any other player's death is if they were mafioso. Therefore you must think this if you want him killed. Yet, you say it wouldn't be necessary. Surely Killing the mafia is of vital importance to activate our win condition? Please elaborate; do you want him dead or not? Do you read him as townie or mafia? The ambiguousness isn't helpful :/

I have no idea what happened to his case on Twistedspoon. If anything it should be stronger now, since SV accused TS of misquoting him.

I guess he realised I was pro-town enough to live. I'm not the one wanting to kill possible townies due to play style. Quite the converse, I encourage different play styles to give the town more diversity at their disposal. Besides, any misquoting was merely incidental and not used for conviction reasons. I apologise If my quotes didn't turn out as I had planned.

[Twistedspoon]

If we force them to no-kill, they don't get any options to have their way AND we guarantee that any kills at night are made by scum.

but how do we know who does the killing? I thought that the killer was secret and decided by the private votes of the players?
Thus, It could be hard to accuse a player since we don't for certain know who voted for who and who made the nightkill.

But your logic does make good sense and gives us a nice edge on the mafioso.
I support no-nightkill. Whether it's practical, I'm unsure.

[Twistedspoon]

Townies have zero incentive to lie about who they voted for at night. We should be able to compare that to whoever claims they received the kill option in order to be at least somewhat informed about what happened at night.

Understood :3
I can't see anyone but the mafia lying, why would we want to?
Therefore No night kill would be practical and pro-town

[Twistedspoon]

so I assume we'll be holding an unofficial vote against who we want to be executed, so that the executioner follows this advice.
Or do we have another way of finding a general opinion of the town for the executioner?

[Twistedspoon]

Notice how Umbrage leaves Ant off his list of 'low content posters' and Ant is right at the bottom. It's clear as day these two are scumbuddies.

Kill Umbrage, when he flips scum, Kill Ant.

qft

And why did you qft someone who wants to kill you?

The only reason why I see would have been if he was sarcastic (very difficult to see in forums) or if he believed umbrage town, so that Charter's killing of him could never happen.
Don't take my word for it though, I'm sure ant can explain fully

[Twistedspoon]

I agree with killing SO at night.

O rly?

What evidence do we have that he is mafia? Sure, he could have been lurkking/active lurking, but apart from this is seems a little Anti-town from the little game-related info he's provided us with. We don't know his opinions on anything yet :s
But hey, that's your opinion, and SO could very possibly be scum, Who can say?

SO: If you posted on other threads later, why not even post here to say you're V/LA?

And you were voting in other threads...?

Lynch All Liars.

I do see little reason why SO would lie if He was town. Heck, Why would anyone lie if they weren't town?

Still not liking an SO kill.

It looks like we're all divided over an SO kill :/
I find it safer if we don't execute him today, but that's just my opinion, and I'm sure you have your reasons. He's certainly not the least suspicious player :/

I'd favour a Tragedy lynch, but wouldn't mind hearing more from our old friend SV

[Twistedspoon]

V/LA until monday

sry guys

[Twistedspoon]

Still not liking the no-nightkill, so what does everyone else think?

I'm in favour of a night-kill myself, but I'll go with the majority. Amrun just seems one of the more sensible players (especially when compared to some), and If she can kill a mafioso that'd be awesome

Kill: StrungOut

You mean StrungOver?

I'll go with a SO execution, but I don't want this to be a chance for other suspects to wriggle out of the scummy spotlight, such as Tragedy and others :s

Not Omgus. It's just a gut feel.

The gut feel is a scum's best weapon. Surely you have more than this, or it does look like an Omgus :/

[Twistedspoon]

Prod Ant

thanks

where'd Haschel go?

Amrun/Final Fires/Exe: This one actually makes a lot of sense. They distance each other, but never say they want another one dead. Exe acts out, Amrun reels him in, they distract the town and Amrun gets townie points. Final Fires proposes one strategy early in the game, Exe says he's wrong and proposes something else. Either way, one of them is a town leader. The more I think about it, the more likely this seems.

If that is the scum team then those 3 are playing very cleverly. :s
A Tragedy/SO/wildcard(Haschel, Vezok, Amrun, FF, Ant) mafia team seems more likely to myself

[Twistedspoon]

QFT.
There is actually a name for this. It's called Strawmanning.

aww, you beat me to it; I was going to mention the straw man :s

Is anyone in opposition to executing Umbrage or SO tonight? If no one's in opposition, we can start to talk about the NK.

Not particularly, but I don't want to let these two distract us from other possible scum
Nightkill? I think we've already decided not to have one and rely on executions. Exe had a good argument for this.

[Twistedspoon]

^yeah, I was just reading the replacement queue when I saw.
It's nice to have all the players again
welcome Setael

[Twistedspoon]

Sateal, I don't like your style already. Note to self: look at cooldog toMorrow.

This is surprisingly similar to when you told Amrun to be more active 5 minutes after she posted. You're way to quick to judge, Sateal hasn't even had a chance to read the whole topic yet
It seems like you're desperate to be the first to suspect a new player :/
not a particularly desirable quality, premature accusations

You're just digging your grave, silly rabbit. Tricks are for silly rabbits.

no comment...

I think we shouldn't worry about it too much until we decide who we want to execute,

When are we going to cast our votes for executee? Are we going to let players defend themselves forever? Scum never give up defending themselves until they're in the clean again. We need to move past the tennis match style of accuse-defend and get some proper conclusions going. 23 pages is enough to get a read on all players (except for Setael for obvious reasons).

[Twistedspoon]

aww, I was going to make an SV case today, but Seteal beat me to it. :s But anyways, She's done a good job of it, and I support the SV/vezok kill too.

Not really a fan of the SO-wagon; his posts read a lot more like frustrated town than scum.

And the irony is that right in the next post we have:

Rolefishing. Zing!

yes an investigative pr should claim!
We could just play follow the cop

no...
Just no...
I'm sorry, but this is just as bad as you're mass claim idea. Once is awkward, but twice is suicidal.

[Twistedspoon]

Proposition:

Everyone post their execute choice at the top of their posts so we can get an actual vote going and Amrun knows who to go with.

Vote to kill: Shattered Viewpoint

the plan should be to keep voting and eliminate the ones with the fewest votes until we have a majority on one player from a remaining two.

[Twistedspoon]

...and then if the chosen killer isn't elected questions will be asked

[Twistedspoon]

I'll do a quick, unofficial vote to kill count:

Vezok: 2 (Amrun, StrungOver)
Umbrage: 6 (Tragedy, FF, Exe, Charter, Vezok, Haschel)
Shattered Viewpoint: 2 (Umbrage, Twistedspoon)
Tragedy: 1 (Ant)
StrungOver: 1 (Shattered Viewpoint)

Just Setael left to declare an executee officially If I'm correct

[Twistedspoon]

looking at the vote to kill list, SV get's a (small) townie point for me. He's gone with SO, even though it'd have been easy to ride the Umbrage wagon and look inconspicuous with 6 votes already on her. SO is an interesting choice.
Maybe I'll switch my executee vote to vezok, we'll wait and see. For now I still find myself agreeing to post #600 and other reasons :s

oh, and to move mainstream for a second, I don't think Charter has been actively lurking tbh. From the first post he was trying to organise the town to maximum efficiency, and I seem to remember him in the gambit against me too.

[Twistedspoon]

I'm not killing Umbrage or anyone until everyone has voted.

voted?
I thought we already had and Umbrage was highest with 6
Or do we need a revote for absolute majority?

[Twistedspoon]

will do a count, but I think we have everyone

[Twistedspoon]

Votes to kill:

Vezok: 2 (Amrun, StrungOver)
Umbrage: 6 (Tragedy, FF, Exe, Charter, Vezok, Haschel)
Shattered Viewpoint: 3 (Umbrage, Twistedspoon, Setael)
Tragedy: 1 (Ant)
StrungOver: 1 (Shattered Viewpoint)

13/13

[Twistedspoon]

Whose votes are we missing?

Looks like a full house here, Amrun

[Twistedspoon]

And if town?

[Twistedspoon]

Since we have no overall majority yet, we could remove the unpopular options of SO and tragedy for now and have their votes relocated to another player. We could repeat this cycle of removing the players with the least votes until we get an overall majority on one player.

Or if that's too much work we could just go for the highest as it is now

[Twistedspoon]

Awesome, my ideas are liked
I feel a sense of purpose again

If you go ahead with umbrage, when she flips town the night kill should be given to TS

I'm cool with being the nightkiller If that's what you guys want. I'll be killing whoever you'd command me to of course.

The better idea is to insist on an actual majority. I like TS's plan - everyone should now have to pick between the 2 leading wagons.

I definitely think everyone should have to choose between umbrage and VS.

Why not SV? He has more votes than him than vezok. Methinks it should be between those 3. However out of these 2 I'd go with Vezok.

So shall we have another vote for who to execute out of Vezok, SV and Umbrage, or just Vezok and Umbrage?

[Twistedspoon]

EBWOP: ignore that huge Setael quote. I messed up with the quoting :/

oh, and it says Amrun wrote the first quote about me being Nightkiller. However Seatel wrote this. In fact all the quotes re Seatael's

I don't know why the quotes are messing up for me ¬_¬

[Twistedspoon]

oh, right nevermind then

SV ticks the box for me

[Twistedspoon]

If you go ahead with umbrage, when she flips town

Question, Umbrage?

[Twistedspoon]

I like the idea of revoting to get on one of the top two wagons. They are Shattered Viewpoint and Umbrage, right?

want me to organise a new vote for these two wagons?

Shattered Viewpoint: 4 (Amrun, Seteal, Twistedspoon, Umbrage)
Umbrge: 6 (Tragedy, FF, Exe, Charter, Vezok, Haschel)

I've included all of the previous Umbrage votes and SV votes again, as they're unlikely to switch. The purpose is to organise the votes on other players to either Umbrage or SV.

However to be fair, this now seems rather moot since Umbrage is on 6 and SV will surely vote for her since she's the only option other than himself. This would put Umbrage on 7 and an overall majority.
So unless we have anyone who voted Umbrage switching to SV then it looks like Umbrage has the majority :/

[Twistedspoon]

I need to iso vezo; but that will have to wait; dinner's about ready.

When will this ever happen.

lol, how old is that?

SV's dinner sure takes a long time to cook

Give at least a day for anyone on either wagon to read the thread and have a chance to switch or not.

Sure thing, but I don't think Amrun would execute now anyways when we haven't fully covered the topic of night voting

[Twistedspoon]

Oh, I must have miscounted. Never mind! On to night kill discussion.

so are we going to discuss night kills whilst we wait for any votes to be switched between SV and Umbrage as Seteal suggeted?

points to discuss:
1) who we should vote nightkiller (maybe another vote?)
2) what should be done with the nightkill (depending on the flip and executee)

Ninja'd:

@Tragedy: hopefully the format of your unvote doesn't remove umbrage of her executioner power. We now have no majority vote on Umbrage/SV
@Ant: Sure thing, we have no majority vote now anyways :s

[Twistedspoon]

Umbrage, could you claim the full name of your role? (I have a good reason for asking this)

I'm interested in your follow up on this FF

What if Umbrage is some cool scum power role

If Umbrage did then I imagine she would have taken the 'please let me survive just this one night' plea that Vezok did. It seems to have worked for Vezok after all
Besides, any of us could have a 'cool scum power role.' I see no reason why to suspect umbrage of having a scum PR above anyone else.
Of course there are arguments that she's scum, I'm not denying that, but It's always a gamble to kill a player just because it's possible to have an insane PR ability.
But hey, I'm not ruling out the possibility, you could be right after all and end up saving the town from a nasty anti-town ability. It's just that Umbrage has shown little evidence of her being both scum

and

having an anti-town PR

[Twistedspoon]

^fair enough

anyaways, last post of the day for myself, see you guys tommorow :3

[Twistedspoon]

It's a good catch, but the question is was it a slip, or just blind, unflinching confidence in Umbrage's townieness?
Either way, It's odd at the least

[Twistedspoon]

15/2/11: I need to iso vezo; but that will have to wait; dinner's about ready.
22/2/11: Note to self: look at cooldog toMorrow.

If none of these ever happen, I'm really, really going to bitch slap the hell out of SV.
Might have to keep up with Shattered Viewpoint even more.

I'm sure it's perfectly reasonable that SV's dinner takes 9 days to cook

but seriously, I think he's just forgotten...
Twice

reminder maybe?

[Twistedspoon]

What is everyone's opinion on whether I should mention who didn't know what a VT was called? Everyone seems to be avoiding that question.

Does it matter? go for it if you believe it pro-town to mention

[Twistedspoon]

PLEASE KILL SOMEONE. I DONT EVEN CARE WHO ANYMORE.

How very anti-town of you. Random targets and we don't even have a night-killer arranged. Things could fall right into the mafia's sweaty hands

anyaways, I'd post more, but I'm a bit busy with my newbie game since it erupted into a crazy LyLo recently; need to get a town win there first.

[Twistedspoon]

I don't feel like it's right for me to gamble that without a majority's approval first.

Go for it

PRs will need them and scum probably already know by now; they'll have combed the topic for it probably

[Twistedspoon]

Oh, and happy birthday Charter

[Twistedspoon]

So I say we kill one person from one list, if they flip town, kill someone from the other list

and If they both flip town?
Don't both your lists rely on the premise that SO is scum? We won't know which he is until the flip, so I'm not sure what we could do with this until SO flips.

I've had no reason to believe TS is scum this game, although I should ISO him just in case.

:3

and Ant didn't want him dead either, preferring to kill Tragedy.

I wouldn't immediately class Ant as Pro-SO myself. I interpreted as he wasn't sure of SO at the time, and had more confidence in a tragedy execution for day 1

[Twistedspoon]

It's not foolproof, but it's the best analysis I can give without a flip.

yeah. I guess the town's bottleneck is that we don't get discussion time after the execution. This means we have to comprehensively exhaust every eventuality before execution time.
Quite annoying, getting everyone to agree on every response to every flip

[Twistedspoon]

I want to do something. In the grand scheme of things the town has done virtually nil so far
Phase 1:

She executes at night either SV or umbrage,

Let's get this done

Kill Umbrage or SV - Vote now or forever hold your tongue

[Twistedspoon]

Shattered Viewpoint: 4 (Amrun, Seteal, Twistedspoon, Umbrage)
Umbrage: 6 (FF, Exe, Charter, Vezok, Haschel, SV)
I included SV in the umbrage vote

@SO: you keep going on about Vezok. well we're deciding between SV and Umbrage now so choose.

vote

.

methinks that If a player can't be bothered to vote we should ISO their posts and choose the most fitting candidate with references to posts for justification.
For example, If SO doesn't choose a vote, i would put him down for SV vote due to post #584
As for a deadline, I'm unsure. I really want to decide on a person to be killed so that we can move on. I think we could excuse charter since It's his birthday according to the forum :3
Not sure about Haschel though, unless he and Charter are twins :s

[Twistedspoon]

EBWOP: not sure why I mentioned Charter. he's plainly declared several times that he want s Umbrage dead. Besides, Seteal was talking about Ant not voting, so I really don't know why I mentioned Charter

Ninja'd: so when should we get a deadline for their votes before we decide them for the players from their prior posts?

[Twistedspoon]

I logically should be the one to have the NK, I've been pushing on him most of the game.

does it matter who has the NK?
we'll execute them anyways If they don't obey the town.
I'm fine with whoever being Nightkiller as long as they obey town.

If SV flips scum or not, I see no reason to change nightkiller, just the target

[Twistedspoon]

Uh, ant and tragedy left methinks to decide our execution (provided no-one switches votes or unvotes)

G'Night all

[Twistedspoon]

Is that an SV execution then?

let's move onto phase 2; the flip and resultant nightkill choices

[Twistedspoon]

Odd how the wagons switched so suddenly in my favor. Just sayin.

Everyone should analyze that very carefully tomorrow after I'm dead and flip Town.

Even better, why don't you analyze that?

lol

[Twistedspoon]

2.)

Also, if SV flips scum,

I'd rather we no-kill.

I want time to see post-mortem interactions, as none of SV's connections are damning enough to merit a guaranteed second kill.

sounds like a plan :3

[Twistedspoon]

I'll answer your questions FF, they all seem reasonable and I have the answers

I'm going to take a break before Godwin's law explodes.
but of course, taking breaks is for scum

(Post #10)

What exactly did you mean by this?

This post was taken early in the game I seem to remember. Exe was intent on upping the tempo of the game as it was going a bit slow-paced. Here I was making a joke that I needed a break and therefore must be scum as Exe said that scum hate a fast tempo or something like that.
Basically It is a joke out of context. I guess it does seem a little ominous here though.

This is why even though Exe might be gunning for me, even

if

I die it might be in the interests of the town if Exe lives, and that's why I'm not interested in an Exe kill at this point, Just because he wants to kill me, It doesn't mean he's mafioso.

(Post #19)

This post was made after Exe's "daykill", but before Exe revealed that it was fake. TS, how did you know that Exe's daykill wasn't real?

I didn't know it wasn't real and even now still find it hard to believe so
I just said I didn't want Exe dead because that would be an anti-town thing to do; something I wouldn't want as it would harm my win condition. I had no pro-town reason to want Exe dead, so i concluded I had no logical reason to want him dead and therefore didn't want him dead

Why was it anti-town to kill SO because he's a lurker, but you were ok with killing Tragedy? And now SV?

Because I had reasons to believe that they had both acted scummish. SO i did not.
I hoope that clears things up for you FF. I'll finish reading the rest of the thread from your post now

[Twistedspoon]

hey guys
I've had a busy time
seems like it was a bad night tho' losing the cop.

Anyaways, I voted FF since I was dissapointed Vezok wasn't given a chance to claim, and didn't want us to lose a potential PR.
Killing Vezok was too big of a risk for the town to lose, and therefore I chose not to vote Amrun, but FF instead. He's a solid town read for me, that's why.

FF, I only wanted a re-vote because It would have been bad if we lynched umbrage and she flipped town when we hadn't got an absolute majority. If any one of the seven SV voters had chosen Umbrage then Umbrage would have been lynched instead. I think it's slightly unfair to pin the SV execution on me when I only wanted to execute having an absolute majority.
I'm sure I missed another question somewhere, but I've got to go for now guys.
Ciao

[Twistedspoon]

@TS: what do you think of amrun now? And the question you missed had to do with you calling the townies pilgrims. You need to answer it.

I'm in favour of an Amrun nightkill at the moment, although I would like to not rush into things one page into day 2.
I'm just upset that the cop was killed. If it was Amrun's fault or if it was a mafia motive I do not know. Hopefully we will find out somehow.

I think i might have called them that on my first post. I'm not sure I remember why though with it being the first post. Flavour reasons I would guess.

[Twistedspoon]

And amrun is not going to be the nk, she's going to be killed TODAY.

does it matter if we execute her or NK her?

[Twistedspoon]

you are absolutely correct seteal

vote me executioner and I will serve you amruns head on a plate. she killed our cop and betrayed us.

[Twistedspoon]

As in, you trust twisted enough to execute amrun? Don't forget that who you vote for is the person who makes the kill.

you make it sound like I'm untrustworthy, Set. Why do you say this?

We need to agree on someone to kill amrun and a separate person to execute one of her teammates tonight.

Agreed.

Vote me to execute Amrun today, and FF to make the nightkill tonight.

any objections?

[Twistedspoon]

If Amrun flips town, which I doubt, kill Setael. If she is scum, kill FF.

Uh, why FF?

@Umbrage: who would you want to be today's Nightkiller?

I WAS THE FIRST ONE TO CALL AMRUN SCUM.

This is true.
If Amrun flips scum that in no way indicates Exe is.
If anything it indicates Exe is town

[Twistedspoon]

Also, umbrage why are you confident enough in TS to give him the kill right now? Don't you think a reread (maybe looking at connections to amrun) would be helpful before making that choice?

I wouldn't kill immanently, Setael. We would have to discuss Nightkiller first so that we don't end up lynching a cop again

but sure, Iso me.
I'm only going to kill Amrun, who you all want dead anyways.

[Twistedspoon]

VOTE: Twistedspoon

I forgot you could self-vote

[Twistedspoon]

@Umbrage: why do you want to kill FF if Amrun flips town?

[Twistedspoon]

EBWOP

@Umbrage: why do you want to kill FF if Amrun flips town?

should say scum, not town; my mistake

[Twistedspoon]

@TS:

"...I was dissapointed Vezok wasn't given a chance to claim, and didn't want us to lose a potential PR."

How did you end up coming with this outcome of thinking/knowing vezok was a Power Role?

Let me live tonight. You can execute me in the day but I need tonight. Seriously. Just don't kill me.

If more than half of the people alive want me to claim I will claim.

It was obvious Vezok was a PR
Amrun shouldn't have killed her

[Twistedspoon]

TW is the exicutioner today. I will vote for no one else.
Aslo TS will kill Exe pl0x

thanks :3
Are TS and TW both me though?

anyaways, as Executioner My job would be to kill who town town want me to. It looks strongly like Amrun now since she killed our Cop and didn't NK.
I'm for an Amrun execution, and I'll gladly do the honours.

If you personally want Exe dead, then you'll have to convince the town, not me mate

@Charter: I'll be killing whoever the town want me to. Does it really matter who is the executioner?
I only

suggested

a vote to get a majority. If umbrage flipped town and we had no majority then that would be a problem. Blame whoever voted SV over Umbrage. That's 6 other people. If any one of them had chosen Umbrage then we'd have no problem

Basically, more people wanted SV dead than Umbrage so we killed SV. sounds fair?

[Twistedspoon]

N Also, I think some people are missing on what there night votes were.

Amrun (1): Umbrage,
Final Fires (4): Setael, Amrun, Ant_to_the_max, Twistedspoon
Haschel (2): charter, Tragedy

I'm probably missing a few

Where's Haschel anyways?

[Twistedspoon]

I GUARANTEE HE WON'T HIT SCUM. 100% promise you that.

surely only scum could make that promise since they know alignments :/

care to explain?

[Twistedspoon]

And TS, don't pretend like you didn't push the re-vote. You definitely did.

I suggested it

it would have been bad if we executed Umbrage when she Hadn't got a majority and she flipped town.

I didn't encourage people to vote SV. any-one of the seven who chose SV could have chosen Umbrage, so I don't see how it's my fault.
I suggested an idea to get a fair majority. You guys accepted it and voted SV.

[Twistedspoon]

some good points raised on this page. Here's the order of events that I suggest following next

finish asking who everyone voted for
decide on who to execute
decide on executioner
decide on nightkiller and who dies. let'S make sure confusion isn't an excuse this time

[Twistedspoon]

amrun, ff, and exe need to die.

Why are you refusing to say who you voted last night? DO NOT post again without stating it. (It also makes me think you aren't reading the thread which either makes you lazy or scum. Or both.

can we safely assume SO voted Amrun if he doesn't answer?
I mean, If he didn't then quite a few players would have to be lying about their vote choice to have given Amrun the vote.

[Twistedspoon]

yes, but if he doesn't answer...

[Twistedspoon]

DO NOT post again without stating it.

but exe is scum

You were saying?

[Twistedspoon]

I can potentially see this argument (that TS is bussing Amrun) first because it's a logical scum move at this point because she IS dying today. Second, TS' initial posts in D2 did not give the impression he was very upset with Amrun's move (not defending but more of a "bummer, man" that does not represent the frustration I felt at least).

Bussing on day 2? In this instance that actually does seem possible from your point of view. I probably wouldn't be clever enough to have thought of that anyways if i was scum :/
With your second point then I regret not showing my frustration as I do now. It took a while to realise what had happened. Also, I thought the day 1 Amrun seemed kinda town, so it took a while to sink in. What matters is now though and we must lynch our most anti-town players. Without a doubt, due to killing the cop, this is Amrun.

TS being the day executioner since if he doesn't kill amrun we'll lynch him tomorrow, but I do not think he should be the night vote.

I don't want the night vote, I want us avenge our cop today.
Actually, I don't care who is the executioner as long as we execute Amrun, I'd just have a sense of satisfaction in doing so.

[Twistedspoon]

Tragedy:

I feel really confident that she's town, just because of one thing she said.

But wouldn't that just be the perfect tactic for scum? Get a town read from one bold statement and then:

Am I the only one that thinks it seems like Tragedy has vanished?

town read forever?

anyways, I agree with the exe read.

I assume the conclusion you're getting at with your final vote count is that Umbrage is scum since 2 confirmed townies and your top town reads all voted umbrage?
The case against me? shrug. I wanted a majority should we decide to execute umbrage. How was I to know 7 people would all pick SV?
as for the rest I've seen no-reason why I've acted anti-town, but I'm not interested in talking about my townieness. I am the only confirmed townie I know, and there's no point me talking about it

I want to hurry up and decide on who we want to execute today. Let's vote and make it official.
gtg for now; school
~Twistedspoon

[Twistedspoon]

4. There are clearly liars in the Night-Vote count, unless 3 people that claimed they voted Amrun were scum. Also, it is somewhat odd the number of people that voted for someone other than Amrun or FF.

this

since I can't vote for myself.

actually you can

[Twistedspoon]

I doubt scum will try and pull any more shit.

any more?
You must be

really

confident that Amrun is scum with that statement

anyawasy,

5. I strongly feel like a lot of what is going on at this point is just noise. It's just a gut feeling, but something is off with the amount of discussion.

QFT

personally, I want to move on to voting for executee with more intelligent discussion as well.

[Twistedspoon]

Hmmmm not rushing into things much? Twistedspoon, StrungOver, and Umbrage have seemed to make a really quick power play for the executioner role which is bothering me.

*shrug*

it doesn't really matter who is executioner since they'll be obeying town

Actually, I don't care who is the executioner

and that

might vote Exe tommorow. 'Tis late here now.

[Twistedspoon]

Hey, I've been saying for a while that we should kill TS first today.

what for?

You'v yet to present the case charter

VOTE: Exe
meant to have done that yesterday

[Twistedspoon]

TS put this:

But wouldn't that just be the perfect tactic for scum? Get a town read from one bold statement and then town read forever?

In addition to this Umbrage and Ant both still expressed uncertainty after I had pointed this out:

Yah, but mine was just a question to you, saying that WIFOM could be in operation.
I didn't say I thought her not town

[Twistedspoon]

can we get another vote going, or at least decide on a new protocol should we not get a majority vote, since some of you wanted an Umbrage lynch sans majority :/

[Twistedspoon]

Final fires is cool with me

[Twistedspoon]

Actually, I really think that Setael should be looked at regardless of flip. Not wanting to hear what I have to say is not pro-town, period.

interesting point.
Noted
Umbrage raises some interesting points too.

We need to elect someone who will kill amrun. No way she's town.

Sure there's a TINY chance I'm wrong that you're scum,

SV was town

[Twistedspoon]

@umbrage: where in the flavor has it ever said "pilgrim"? I thought TS (and you now) were the only ones using that term.

explanation: I noticed MG used puritan in post one flavour setup.
I red this wrong and wrote pilgrim when I tried to include flavour

I cannot speak for Umbrage though.

[Twistedspoon]

The scum are obv TS, Umbrage, and Amrun.

charter, you're picking up SO's habit of only posting to say people to execute. It hardly looks pro-town.

can we get some reasons going?

[Twistedspoon]

I gave reasons all day yesterday for Umbrage being scum. Amrun is obvious. And I gave a reason for you being obv scum, derailing the Umbrage kill to get SV killed.

I've explained this

I didn't de-rail umbrage, I anted a majority. Any one of 7 votes could have chosen Umbrage over SV. I didn't tell them to pick SV, I wanted a majority, I didn't care on whom.

Besides, it was Setael who made the big case on SV that persuaded everyone.

oh, and if Umbrage flips town, then your case on me collapses like a pyramid of cards in a typhoon

[Twistedspoon]

@ Charter: true. I'll give you that. However I never persuaded anyone to go for SV over umbrage. I just wanted a majority vote, I didn't care who it was on, as long as it was representative of the town as a whole.
How was I to know 7 people would choose SV over umbrage?

@Setael: why Ant Nightkiller?

[Twistedspoon]

uh

can we move onto a vote for who to execute now that exe is executioner?

[Twistedspoon]

???

I thought I voted Exe, MG

[Twistedspoon]

VOTE: Exe
meant to have done that yesterday

yeah, upon ISO'ing myself, I did vote Exe

MG missed me off the votecount though

[Twistedspoon]

MG

post 1026

I voted EXE

[Twistedspoon]

REQUESTING VOTE COUNT

let's see if Amrun's post election vote is counted, if not then maybe that's why mine wasn't

[Twistedspoon]

fair enough

I guess there was no vote tampering ability then

anyways, Exe, do you want a vote or are you choosing your victim yourself?

[Twistedspoon]

It can't hurt to ask again

@Mod: why are only voters 5 listed, but Exe is on 6 votes?

[Twistedspoon]

Why are you so sure it's scum? Couldn't there be a town double voter?

if it is could we figure it out by looking at the day 1 votes if we needed to?

[Twistedspoon]

Should we vote whom should die tomorrow?

game tommorow or RL tommorow?

anyways, Set seems to think we don't need a vote

Ask Exe if he wants a vote, he's the executioner

[Twistedspoon]

anyone want to vote on a nightkiller?

[Twistedspoon]

I like the FF plan. I'm cool with him being executioner for the nightkill.

If Amrun = Town -> SO must Die.
If Amrun = Scum -> TS must Die.

Period of Correction.

hang on, why am I in this?

[Twistedspoon]

Kill SO today as the execution.
If SO is scum -> Kill Umbrage
If SO is town -> Kill Am

this

[Twistedspoon]

Exe, good point. I can't believe I forgot that argument.

Thank Exe. We nearly just made a real big mistake there.

In other, less anti-town, news.
Amrun might not be the best option for killing today. Not sure how I feel about it yet.

So who do you think should be today's kill? Umbrage? StrungOver?

[Twistedspoon]

are we going to need a majority vote again?

anyways, I'm voting SO since I agree with FF on post 1136

[Twistedspoon]

Can someone point me to this big incredible case on SO? I'd really like to hear what you have on him that's better than the amrun case, but everyone's ignoring my request.

post 1136

anyawys, i'm cool with an Amrun lynch. I believe I promised to kill her If I becasme executioner right at the start of day 2, so don't assume I haven't considered the amrun case. Personally, Amrun could have just made a townie miskill and been confused. It's scummy though, but she has done some townie things. Why did we choose her to be our day and night executioner if she didn't have a few townie credits?
anyways, SO has done noting pro-town that i can remember. Mass claims and random lynchee name posting is all that comes to mind.
Amrun has been both pro-town and scummy. SO has just been scummy. In my opinion this is why we should lynch SO today.

[Twistedspoon]

I don't know if she's scum or town, that's why I'm taking a gamble with SO. I don't know if he's town or scum either though :/

It's my opinion that SO should be lynched today over Amrun. I'm still cool with an Amrun lynch though, it's just that Amrun has had more pro-town posts than SO to me. A simple ISO of SO proves this.
Anyways, It's just my opinion. I really couldn't decide and would have probably chosen Amrun if FF (town read) and post 1136 hadn't persuaded me.

[Twistedspoon]

oh, lol
wrong post there

nonetheless, I'm sure that I read a compelling case on SO somewhere.
Anyways, my vote is on him for today. If you guys don't want to vote him, I'm cool with that, but for me, that's where I feel the vote will do the most good for the town.
Even if Amrun is scum she can't be much of a threat if we don't give her the NK again. Not that that excuses her >_>

[Twistedspoon]

...

I

find SO the least pro-town
therefore

I

voted him.

name one pro-town thing he's done. Seriously.

Townie's just don't play like SO do. That's all the evidence needed.

[Twistedspoon]

it's simple. SO's play has been nothing like how a townie plays.
Townie's don't play as SO did. Therefore he must be scum.

anyways, stop defending SO. I agree that Amrun is very suspicious and I can see why you guys voted for her but in my opinion SO is scum
I hope you respect my opinion and vote

[Twistedspoon]

What is this I don't even

I just think he was scum this game

anyways, SO is a pretty cool guy. eh plays mafia and he doesn't afraid of anything.

[Twistedspoon]

so...

we have Haschel, Amrun, Exe and Ant left to vote no?

[Twistedspoon]

Can you clarify what you mean by this? Especially the last sentence?

I was answering tragedy when she said I was insulting SO.
I was saying to tragedy that I didn't think I was insulting him
anyways, apologies to SO if i came across as insulting.

[Twistedspoon]

Has anyone played with him before? Is he usually more active than this?

1) yes
2) No

[Twistedspoon]

are you voting, Exe?

[Twistedspoon]

It's 6 for a majority.
I'm seeing it highly unlikely that Amrun would vote anyone other than SO since he's the leading wagon (other than herself)
still, we might as well let Amrun vote officially

[Twistedspoon]

Happy birthday Amrun =D

[Twistedspoon]

just read it set; the rest of us have to :/

[Twistedspoon]

"SETAEL KNEW SV WOULD FLIP TOWN"

tragedy, why do you think that set knew SV would flip town?
Are you suggesting she is mafia?

reasons and quotes :/

[Twistedspoon]

Seeing as I feel compassionate right now, I will not modkill you TS. BUT, the next player that posts after the executioner has executed WILL be modkilled. Thanks!

[Twistedspoon]

@tragedy: why on earth did you vote me for nightkiller? :/

I voted exe

I'm unsure. do you guys believe he did choose to no kill, or do you think exe killed FF?

exe, if you didn't kill FF then who did, and how?

as for massclaim, I'm unsure. seems risky

Why the FUCK would I claim to have received the role?
I would have been perfectly safe to say I didn't get the night kill and blame the scum. I would have been PERFECTLY SAFE.

Wifom?

but i still think exe is probtown

anyways,

Burning question on my mind though
@Sat and ONLY Sat: out of the two executution posts now, who's post is scummier?
I only want Sat's opinion on this right now
(Oh and sorry if I totally screwed up your name, still on my phone)

do i have to answer this question now? will do so when i get home then

Ant

I can't see a scum doublevoter. And

Don't worry though, I am not ending this day until everyone is clear at how the night is going down.

maybe we'll get it right this time

[Twistedspoon]

We need to get a solid scum-suspect.

why can't that be you?

you sure look mighty suspicious since FF (a big critic of yourself) died, and we all voted for you (except tragedy)

And i don't buy setael's 'quack doc' excuse.

Tragedy and Amrun are scum. Possibly with TS.

explain why me

I believe the only case on me was wanting a majority for the d1 execution. It was between Umbrage and SV and I asked that we had a majority when we lynched them. As they both flipped town this case is no-longer valid, as even Charter admitted

And thing about it, if I was scum, this game would be over right now.

1)how
2)sounds like wifom

Although FF became more of a confirmed townie yesterday then me.

How exactly?

[Twistedspoon]

So annoyed you weren't killed yesterday.

So don't care about your annoyance.

Reading the Sateal/Amrun interaction, I don't feel that they are scumbuddies.

Could be bussing or distancing.
That's how I'd do it if I were scum. It's almost a perfect example of bussing/distancing.
They make it appear as if they hate each other.

I mean what is really the point of "So annoyed you weren't killed yesterday" if not to bus or distance?

Basically, If one of them flips scum, I wouldn't rule the other one out for good

oh, and just checking, but did everyone vote Exe last night except for tragedy?

[Twistedspoon]

So annoyed you weren't killed yesterday.

So don't care about your annoyance.

So Amrun is probably not scum. TS almost definitely is. The lame posts about me possibly bussing Amrun are scumtastic.

but they're not though are they?
this bus/distancing looks so rehearsed

and if that's the only reasons have have against me, an obsevation

anyways, anyone familiar with Occham's razor.

If so would you not mind if i applied it to the case of FF's death?

[Twistedspoon]

I said I wouldn't rule out the possiblity of one being scum if the other flipped town.

but if you guys read it differently then i am powerless to change that

[Twistedspoon]

Let me live and I can prove I am not lying about having a Daykill.

explain
I am willing to hear you out

[Twistedspoon]

I love that you guys think I am retarded enough to try to kill someone at night after I have fought against a night-kill all game. Also, I don't think you guys realize that I am way too arrogant to have put myself in any danger by killing someone after claiming I wouldn't.

wifom?

[Twistedspoon]

Also, we need a list of whom voted for who last night.
I still voted for TS.

exe

[Twistedspoon]

TS is lurking hard core, probably hoping we'll forget about him. He should definitely be today's lynch.

excuse me, but my last post was after charter's and haschels
Why pick on me, although I do admit I haven't been here in a couple of days

anyways, I've been busy. Catching up now

This makes no sense

scum would really get rid of the idiots first [TS, Myself, Cough.

I'f I'm such an idiot (which I take as a complete ad hominem from tragedy) then why on eath did you vote for me last night phase?

explain

[Twistedspoon]

anyways, I'm fine with a tragedy kill today in light of the last 2 pages when catching up. I voted ant after all, so I'm fine with whatever he chooses. It would be too late to unvote now anyways :/

as for ant's alignment

I actually see no reason scum couldn't have one day double voter when they all have double votes at night. It actually make a lot more sense as a scum PR in this game since usually scum automatically gets NK control.

This makes sense

however It'd be safer to kill tragedy today. It'll also reveal more about ant's alignment depending on tragedy's flip. Barring hyperbus scum would be unlikely to kill other scum, but I digress for fear of entering wifom territory.

I want to hear more from charter and Haschel too though.

Ninja'd

will read tragedy's post

[Twistedspoon]

@TS: I prefer to expect you to become Night Executioner since I know you'd be trusting FF to the max [Or amIwrong], and wouldn't execute him.
Looks like we gave the Executioner to scum again...

Questions

1) did you trust FF to the max before his flip?
2) what makes you think I trusted FF to the max before his flip?
3) surely the plan was to vote exe?
4) so are you saying Exe is definite scum since he received the nightkill (or so he claims to and it was the plan to give him it anyways)?

[Twistedspoon]

"It's not scummy - look, they did it too" = scum tell.

I know, and I've known since about page 3 when I did the same

however It had to be said because it is true

anyways, I'm fine with a tragedy kill today in light of the last 2 pages when catching up. I voted ant after all, so I'm fine with whatever he chooses. It would be too late to unvote now anyways :/

And this is TS saying she thinks ant is scum, no?

1) I'm male
2) I never said i thought ant was scum, however after reconsidering I don't I would have voted him executioner in case he was (seems more suspicious day 3).
I would probably have voted myself executioner or another town read of mine If i could unvote and vote again now

This is just weird. On what planet could we get Ant-scum to execute himself as the day kill? But if we could which you are implying how would tragedy flipping possibly reveal more about ant's alignment than ant's flip would?

you misunderstand me, set

I meant if ant was scum he probably wouldn't execute tragedy if she was also scum
So if tragedy flips scum another day, and ant refused to execute her today then there would be strong grounds for ant be

Hope this answers your questions

[Twistedspoon]

what makes you think we're in lylo? Or are we assuming 4 scum

anyways, You'll have to execute someone eventually, and I'm not suggesting it right now and before a vote as well

(this post is assuming your last post was directed at me. Upon reading it again it could be tragedy you were talking to. My vote to execute is on tragedy at this moment in time by the way)

[Twistedspoon]

but is it backtracking if i say that at the start of day 3 I felt ant was strong enough a town read to be executioner
but now feel that he's a null read (hence not a scum read) and therefore would have preferred a different executioner (although it doesn't matter too much anyways now since you say's you'll be nightkilling ant if he doesn't obey the town vote)

If the executioner follows the town's vote then there is n problem apart from the obvious one that the executioner will never execute himself. That's why It's important to have a top town read as executioner is all I'm saying.

[Twistedspoon]

so are we having another vote then?

[Twistedspoon]

TS, can you link me to three games were you were scum?

I would If I could

But I've only been here 3 months and I've completed no games as scum, just as town

my wiki page has all of my games on it

[Twistedspoon]

oh, and I'm cool with the haschel night-voting plan

[Twistedspoon]

If I were the doc, N1 I would have protected Set.

anyways, what happened to our daykill vote?

but yeah, ant's right. No-one would get the NK if scum voted for scum

[Twistedspoon]

Most likely to defend from scum kills, not executions.

scum kills?
when have we had a scum kill? I didn't even think they were in the rules :/

[Twistedspoon]

I'm quite sure town has certain advantage during the morning

?

[Twistedspoon]

are we not having a vote?

[Twistedspoon]

I'm reanalyzing the SO wagon.

i like how Exe completely forgot to do this.

[Twistedspoon]

I agree with Setael being Night executioner

[Twistedspoon]

I want charter and haschel to post
do they not realise it's potential lylo ¬_¬

if Amrun is scum and Tragedy is town, that switch wins the game.

how does it?

[Twistedspoon]

:/

I don't know what to think of that theory
Why would they have chosen to use it only on day 2, if we are to believe exe that he chose to kill no-one

but yes, I'll admit that we could lose if we mislynch today. Not for certain, but it's certainly possible.

[Twistedspoon]

how abouts we vote?

[Twistedspoon]

I'm not claiming now. I can live with voting Seteal tonight...

same

If charter isn't claiming then i don't think I should.
Well not yet anyways. Only when I am the prime lynch candidate, as shown by a vote, do i think i should claim

I'm cool with the set voting plan too, as well as charter

Vote for daykill so far

Exe -Charter, Amrun, Haschel (3)
Amrun -Tragedy (3)

I think this is right.

[Twistedspoon]

lol, sorry

I messed up there

unless tragedy is a secret triple voter

[Twistedspoon]

what happened to the executioner having to follow the town's vote?

[Twistedspoon]

i just thought that was how we played it from d1.
Forget my conservatism if you rather have it this way, your choice set

[Twistedspoon]

The way I see it, EVERYTHING is so glaringly obvious

explain

[Twistedspoon]

Obviously, don't execute until TS has a chance to claim.

This is just letting scum get away, obviously.

no, it's making sure we don't execute a townie :/

[Twistedspoon]

right...

so why do you think exe isn't posting?

[Twistedspoon]

And I'm still going to flip as a Regular Townie.

we'll see
btw, tragedy, what is your read on set?

anyways here's what should happen

1) I claim
2) shortly after we execute tragedy
3) we all vote set as night executioner

I'll claim in my following post

[Twistedspoon]

when was this?

[Twistedspoon]

that's not a claim. PRs are townie's too

If I'd have said 'making sure we don't execute a vanilla towbie' that would have been a softclaim of some kind

anyways, before i was interrupted; my claim

[Twistedspoon]

I am the town deputy, although as usual with this role I was not informed so at the start of the game. I was informed so when Vezok died.

Since vezok was the cop, the mod PM'd me with his investigation results upon his death. The only one he had been able to do was an investigation on umbrage during night 1.
Vezok had received an innocent verdict on Umbrage

and that is my role

[Twistedspoon]

That's about the worst fakeclaim I've ever heard. Telling us something we already know, and playing off a dead PR.

it's my role; don't blame me

and aren't you the one who's refusing to claim anyways?

right now we should either massclaim; as exe suggested

or

execute tragedy; I'm cool with that

[Twistedspoon]

indeed, it would have looked rather scummy had i defended an Umbrage who wasn't under much pressure

and why hasn't our friend charter claimed yet? He's crawled out of that one

[Twistedspoon]

deadline is in 4 days. I'm down for a tragedy kill

[Twistedspoon]

For example, if TS had then died, no one would have had any clue that he knew Umbrage was town. No one would know because TS didn't leave any clues.

why would I have died though?

I would have claimed if i was at risk of execution, and at the time i had no idea that the mafia had a night-kill (and even now we cannot prove that exe didn't kill ff)

there was no need for me to claim so i didn't
that's all there is to it

[Twistedspoon]

@TS - Here's what I...

sure, I could've claimed and protected umbrage

but what if the town wanted my blood for protecting her?

losing a townie to protect a townie wasn't worth it in my eyes

If umbrage had been under more threat then i might have claimed

also, i wasn't sure if i could 100% trust vezok's investigation. I didn't know vezok's cop sanity and also, there was a chance Umbrage was one of those scum roles which receive an innocent result

If such was true and either umbrage or myself were lynched then we would have been in big trouble

at least, those were my thoughts on my role

I have little else to say on the topic

[Twistedspoon]

I still think we should have massclaimed. Just saying.

So tragedy will be dying? K.

I don't really know what exactly we need to discuss.

this

also, where's our charter claim?

[Twistedspoon]

Would anyone object if I end it tonight? I think it is obvious that the day shouldn't go on any longer.

all for it

[Twistedspoon]

And I knew there was something wrong with TS using the phrase 'pilgrim'!

That#s why i suggested killing you FF

I also knew we could have never killed tragedy were you alive

Setael and FF were pro in this game. I tip my hat to you
And i look forwards to playing with the rest of you too =D

anyways, exe didn't vig me because of that post where I said he was sooo town
flattery does everything

Charter? I really didn't expect him to be the traitor, and thus why he didn't want to claim
I was sure there was a doc

[Twistedspoon]

@All & mod: So how did i do for first time scum?

[Twistedspoon]

Umbrage's modkill won us the game btw

we got soooo happy

[Twistedspoon]

Yeah, Umbrage... Thanks. <3

You did pretty well, TS. You made lots of mistakes (as we all do), especially the third day. I made plenty myself.

yeah, but I got myself out of my mistakes quite well. avoiding the vig

and that deputy claim

If only I'd survived one more day, I think I would've picked up my play at least a little.

Exactly why we had to kill you

If we'd have gone with ant instead you'd have got us and tragedy would have been unlynchable

Charter traitor was rather lucky for us. Welcome to the scum team buddy

my first ever win in a game of mafia. 'tis a good feeling

[Twistedspoon]

Also, Exe was probably the best player with nailing scum so grats on that!

but he didn't nail scum

Haschel was too pro, and even I didn't nail scum until now when I realised we had a traitor

At least TS sort of played good scum for that small bit.

Meh, he was obvscum for D1.
The issue is that I am never confident enough in my scum-reads, but clearly I should be.

If i was obvscum then why didn't you kill me?

anyways, Amrun villing vezok was a mistake in heindsight. Vezok should have investigated her. Amrun would have appeared as innocent

[Twistedspoon]

I agree that this set up favored scum.

no

we couldn't even have the nightkill since we had to vote for it

we got lucky having amrun as executioner, and that came at a great cost.
And it was only 1-shot with the override

But we did get lucky with umbrage :3

Aww, if there had been a doctor, by PoE Amrun was the only person who it could have possibly been.

why?

Oh, and thanks for modding Mallow! I really enjoyed this game, and thought it was very well done. I really enjoyed everyone on the player list too, and I thought each person added a unique playstyle to the game. It was really fun getting to know all of you and see how you played.

this

but yeah, FF was the best, which was why we had to kill him

in the words of Amrun in our scum QT:

1) Who is our biggest threat? FF? Exe?

Right now, FF, because he's the only one who doesn't have his head up his ass.

[Twistedspoon]

One last thing

@Mallow: I believe you owe me mexico

[Twistedspoon]

I guess so
but you'd have been invincible with an innocent from vezok
she had to die though eventually :/

I want to hear from Umbrage myself

[Twistedspoon]

perfect indeed

hi-fives all round

'course I wasn't expecting it to end since I didn't know charter was the traitor. If he was why did he have to say my deputy claim was scummy ¬_¬

Elements of luck

Ant being elected executioner before exe had a chance to vig
Umbrage's modkill
My pilgrims slip
Exe forgetting to vote N1 (although amrun could have just not voted FF to counter this)

[Twistedspoon]

yah, this setup is much more town favouring isn't it Amrun?

we had no certain nightkill; it was a huge disadvantage. And even if we did get a nightkill, town would know who did it :/

[Twistedspoon]

yah

if exe had shot one of us we'd have fallen

but he didn't

[Twistedspoon]

TS is probtown...but I'll shoot myself in the foot if I was right about TS being scum at the beginning >.>
Tragedy is almost definitely scum. I had been pretty much ignoring her until now, but she's acting a lot like in Frenzy mafia.
Amrun is probably scum.

why do you say that and then say

Meh, he was obvscum for D1.

[Twistedspoon]

gah

well i didn't do that badly for first time scum did i? :3

[Twistedspoon]

I think we could have won without a traitor We'd have got the NK and such

anyways it only seems imbalanced because Umbrage got modkilled

[Twistedspoon]

well umbrage did it after i had been warned

and i only asked twice >_>
it's my first ever win as well so it's understandable

[Twistedspoon]

moving on

/pre-in for next if MG decides to run this again

[Twistedspoon]

Afraid everyone will agree with me? Kind of takes the high out of your win, eh?

no

i wasn't modkilled because i hadn't been warned. It was nothing to do with my alignment.

[Twistedspoon]

well we know that now don't we