Mini 1123 - The Walking Dead - Game Over

[Amrun]

Hello all. I'm excited for this game.

[Amrun]

Vote: Jack

Gotta pick someone and you chased Mariyta out of the X-files game.

[Amrun]

I don't agree with the no lynch at all. Even if we DECIDE on no lynch in the end, deciding on it while still in RVS mode is anti-town. How are we supposed to scumhunt with no reads?

How will flips help us with NO READS?

[Amrun]

In this game: wanting to get reads on people is scummy. Wanting to rush to the end of day with nothing to go on: not scummy.

What is this I don't even

[Amrun]

It might be a slip. It might not. Either way, explain yourself, ender.

VOTE: ender

[Amrun]

But they haven't even had one chance. The issue is your use of "another."

[Amrun]

I just wanted to see him explain, personally.

I'm not satisfied with the explanation because it ISN'T one, but him being at L-2 for something that's probably a mistake is making me uncomfortable.

UNVOTE: ender

Your rapid defense of him was strange, starbuck.

[Amrun]

Fuck.

@mod: Can you fix tags, please?

Fuck.. did that too fast.. i swear, I just walked in. :p

[Amrun]

It read as a defense to me.

Flipping out over someone else's pressure votes is not a townie sign.

[Amrun]

Starbuck: You actually didn't flip out, but your reaction was strange. Did you really think everyone wanted to really lynch ender like 40 hours into the game? Wtf? They were obviously pressure votes, so no need to defend unless he's your scumbuddy.

Fate: Ender suggested it first, but chesskid's reaction also made me think...

That's the whole point that was being addressed. Slip or misspeaking? No one knows.

[Amrun]

No scum would even hammer yet because they'd be sacrificing themselves for being obvscum.

[Amrun]

I believe the claim because of the "for now." Also Andrea isn't a zombie in the show.

VOTE: Fate

Explain yourself. What possible townie motivation is there for wanting to hammer on anyone so early?

Even if you were sure he was scum, a one-day d1 is a bad idea. How can we sniff out his scum partner(s) if we lynched so quickly?

[Amrun]

Uh, no. Everyone is dumb.

Andrea is a human in the show. She's not a zombie. Meaning it helped me believe the claim.

But how do you not know that, Ender? I'm not sure I believe you anymore...

[Amrun]

There was a specific reason I believed his claim wasn't a safeclaim, but he just blew that out of the window.

But I'm not hammering. We can still gain info this phase.

[Amrun]

Ender. No one said that. I said that Andrea wasn't a zombie as a reason why I BELIEVED you.

I know Tony requested flavor knowledge for anyone signing up for this game, and the episodes are READILY available online so that's crap. There are only 6 or something.

At this point, Ender, you're so clueless that this is, indeed, looking like a botched fakeclaim.

Andrea is a character, but there are enough characters that she can be a fakeclaim without much issue.

@mod: Can I get a votecount, please?

[Amrun]

I'm not putting him at L-1 on page 5, but it's safe to say that

FoS: Ender

[Amrun]

He didn't claim scum, though.

[Amrun]

If my vote will put him at L-2, I'll do it, but I'll wait until a modcount for that.

[Amrun]

That makes sense. It would be a little strange for zombies to have individual power roles, but who knows? Maybe they need to in order to balance the set up. I have no idea.


However, in Tony's original thing in the ad queue, he said something like "If you don't like cults, don't play this game." Something to think about.

[Amrun]

If ender flips scum, then Starbuck is definitely on my radar. Stupid no posters, though.

VOTE: ender

[Amrun]

@Rufflig: the point is that saying "so and so is not a zombie" should not have created the reaction it did. Reading episode descriptions is just fine.

I definitely don't want Ender lynched so early, but putting him at L-2 isn't bad to keep the pressure on. So far, he's flailing under pressure and I want to see what else develops out of it.

His claim is coming off like a fakeclaim now, but I'm still not convinced. It could be real, if ender lacks any shred of reading comprehension.

[Amrun]

GreyICE, why are you assuming there are 3 scum...?

[Amrun]

Jack, why are you FoSing me for that post? Seriously.

Grey says, "There are three scum" and I want to know why he said it.

[Amrun]

But why would there be an assumption that there are three scum? I have no idea how many scum there are. How does GreyICE know?

Town shouldn't know that.

[Amrun]

Listen, how the hell do you know how many scum there are? My town pm doesn't mention that at ALL and neither does the OP.

That's ridiculous. I'm going to ignore this line of questioning for now as it must be reaction fishing, since it makes absolutely zero sense.

Oh, Wraith... bad scum, bad.

[Amrun]

unvote

vote: Wraith

I have to admit that was pretty scummy. Ender is lying low, though, now...

Grey, answer my question, please. Why three scum?

[Amrun]

I guess that's a fair point. I didn't realize it had only been four hours. Game happenings made me feel like it was longer or something.

Ugh, now I'm tempted to unvote. I don't like L-1 at this stage of the game, but I feel Wraith is genuinely scummy...

Please, no one hammer yet.

[Amrun]

Grey, answer my question, please. Why three scum?

It's pretty much the standard assumption for a 13 man game. There's occasionally 9:2:2, but that almost never happens. 8:3:1 happens, but that doesn't mean there's not a 3 man scumteam.

Okay. But Tony did mention cults, you know.

You sounded positive, not speculative.

[Amrun]

Also, I apologize for not knowing the standard ratios. I am trying, but my newbie still shows sometimes.

And I don't like L-1 after like 1 day and 7 pages. I just don't. Even if Wraith and Ender are BOTH scum, there's likely one more to find. Two players haven't even posted yet.

It's just too early, imho.

[Amrun]

Okay. But would we even know if someone else's recruit vote WAS effective? I'm betting no. Idk, with a n0, it seems more likely the recruit happens at night.

But I'll play along, I suppose.

Recuit: Jack

[Amrun]

Also, good point, Fate.

UNVOTE: Wraith

[Amrun]

Also, people's thoughts on cult vs. classic scum team?

I think zombies makes more sense with a cult and a n0, but it's not guaranteed.

[Amrun]

Ugh, I just knew it.

Fucking hammer.

I am not pleased by this.

[Amrun]

Hopefully, he's scum, but either way, we missed out on a lot of reads. Two players haven't even posted...

[Amrun]

Oh, good. This is precisely WHY I unvoted, too. Just to avoid this situation.

Excellent.

Now the dilemma is that I find Wraith pretty scummy but want the game to keep going so we can get more information and reads.

Also, ender has done little to nothing to redeem himself and I'm not liking it.


p-edit: I thought raivann was scummy when I thought she hammered, but less so now. Still, her post did seem pretty sheepish.

[Amrun]

Even though that's about me, I lolled too.

It's funny, especially coming from Jack, whose playstyle is so scummy that


I tend to play more cautiously than some people, and I get "fencesitting" accusations all the time. I'm still settling into a playstyle, but for now, this is what's natural. I see both sides of many arguments, especially in beginning stages like this.

Here is why I think Wraith is scummy:

Most people seem to think his iso #3 is scummy. For me, it's a null, but it did put him on my radar, so I guess it's slight scum. The mention of me specifically is what threw me off. It's some weird sheep/buddy thing. Ender has done a ton of strange and scummy things in this game so far, so why can't he just point them out for himself?

Iso #4 was a huge scumtell for me, though. Someone accuses him of buddying, and zing! All supposed concerns are out the window and he votes ender. lolwut


I don't think that waiting for a mod count to vote is a scummy thing, though (obviously, as I have said that in this game). This Raivann business is a perfect example of why. What if she was scum trying to hammer and failed? What if she had no idea she was putting him at L-1? What if it had been a hammer, and she didn't know?

I guess it's just part of me being cautious, but I like a mod-confirmed count before I may be putting someone at L-1 at hammer by accident.

[Amrun]

... whose playstyle is so scummy that I couldn't even finish my sentence, apparently. Fuck, I need to go to bed.

I hope Raivann comes back and posts more along with our no-shows while I am asleep.

[Amrun]

Internet Stranger, I mostly agree with your assessment, except for the most important one:

Jack is Jack. I've played with Jack before and his play is remarkably more pro-town than I've seen elsewhere. Does that make him innocent? No. But it means I have a null on him right now.

Also, I do think Wraith is likely scum. His behavior is terrible so far. If he's town, then, why has he acted this way? Why?

As for ender, he has done a ton of scummy things, but I'm torn on him. He could also be VI. VI or scum, VI or scum?! I can't decide.

[Amrun]

Oops. Caught with your hand in the cookie jar, Starbuck.

@IS: so Wraith is too scummy to be scum?

Yeah, that defense is not going to fly with me.

[Amrun]

There might not be a cult. It's just speculation.

But FUUUUUU for hammering, ender. This is why I wouldn't do L-1 at this stage of the game.

[Amrun]

I agree with Grey. Go after the cult. Better safe than sorry.

[Amrun]

bv, care to explain why I'm scummy to you, or are you just going to throw it out there and hope everyone else agrees?

[Amrun]

Also, the Rufflig, I am also willing to bet that me, you, and ender started in the same boat.

But there was a n0.

I'm not sure what recruiter would choose to bite ender, but, the possibility is out there. It had to be said.

[Amrun]

Problem: I only said ANYTHING like that AFTER you initially said I was scummy.

Try again.


And for the record, I'm not totally trusting of either of them. I'm especially suspicious of ender. Rufflig, on the other hand, I already had a town read on before he/she said that, so I'm inclined to believe it.

[Amrun]

And then, after that, I went on to change mind and believe it was a fakeclaim because ender botched it so badly.

And I definitely never mentioned the Rufflig at that point.

So, what's your point?

I picked up something in his claim that seemed genuine, but I'm not throwing out the possibility that the others are both fakeclaims. When and if they've done scummy things, I've pointed it out.

PS Your suspicion of me for your stated reasons are so scummy. I hope everyone else sees this backtracking.

[Amrun]

Thoughts on bv now?

[Amrun]

Holy fuuuuuuck. Cults ahoy.

VOTE: bv

Just to get things rolling.

[Amrun]

Grey.

That's enough caps.

Why Fate?

[Amrun]

I've never played a cult game.

The WIFOM is kind of smacking me in the face.

Do we vote scumreads or townreads?!

[Amrun]

Bluh, what the fuck is this shit I don't even know.

I'll just stick with bv for now since he was scummy yesterday.

[Amrun]

Starbuck, where and why did you find bv scummy?

And the chesskid thing was obviously a joke... Kind of misrep there.

[Amrun]

I agree that refusing is generally scummy, but it seems to fit his meta from what I gather. I just think it was a joke, like maybe he didn't think much of anything about bv just yet and was just being cheeky.

But I've never played with him before, so I could be wrong. I'm also rather cheeky myself so I see that sometimes when it is not there.

p-edit: I've obviously been bv's biggest attacker, so you don't have to convince me he's scummy.

However, he didn't know the game had started and I think we shouldn't judge him for activity (for this one day only).

Plenty of what he did say is scummy, so there's no need.

[Amrun]

Well, you're wrong.

I just said that's how I interpreted chess' response, with clear allowances for my own mistakes.

Offering different interpretations is what this game is about, if you hadn't noticed.

Due to my interpretation, your attack on him looked like a misrep. That's relevant.

Bv said he forgot about the game. I see no reason not to believe him IF his activity picks up. His reactions to that just seemed genuine to me. Other things he said did not seem genuine.

You were scummy yesterday and you're not improving today.

[Amrun]

Votes don't mean something isn't an attack.

No, it didn't immediately make you scum...

I disagreed with the thought process behind the incident you're thinking about. It seemed to make more sense for scum.

However, I didn't really think you might be scum until later in the day.

Your behavior really baffles me, to be honest. Disagreement doesn't need to lead to votes or scumminess, but sometimes it does. Sometimes that's because a difference in philosophy and sometimes it's because one of the pair is scum.

You're not my top scum read, so I don't know why you're getting your feathers so ruffled. I was just making conversation, to begin with, really.

[Amrun]

In other words, I thought maybe you hadn't considered that it might be a joke. You hadn't. I, on the other hand, had not considered the possibility that it wasn't a joke and your post helped me think about it in a new way.

That's a good thing, for town, but scum use it against people. That is the entire basis of the game.

[Amrun]

FffUUUU.

Case on me was full of dumb.

Have fun culthunting without me.

[Amrun]

I just wanted to say FUCKING LOL.

And also that I did NOT waste my vig shot. I got it n1 to be usable starting n2 ... got shot d2.

[Amrun]

I wasn't trying to defend him, though I realized afterward how it could be misconstrued.

I just interpreted what he said very differently than you did, and of course, you knew he was CR and I did not, so we were bound to have different interpretations.

[Amrun]

Oh, either way, we just had different interpretations of that post of his. iirc, we were both wrong.

[Amrun]

You were playing scummy, bro. Sorry.

[Amrun]

You were playing scummy, bro. Sorry.

I MADE FOUR POSTS

Four bad posts.

But the lynch went way too quickly and I was pissed about it.

[Amrun]

"Threadshit" may be my new favorite word.