Mini 1138 - Candy Zoo Mafia (Game Over!)

[ToastyToast]

VOTE: ToastyToast

It's candy zoo mafia, and toast fails to qualify as candy
or zoo life

HAHAAH this made me laugh

OH, and

Vote: Morthas

Sweet three people from the newbie game we all owned in.

[ToastyToast]

And for Vezok's question, I say Yes.

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Hoppster and Zyrconium= Scum buddies tunneling on someone (who isn't scummy)

Unvote, Vote: Hoppster

I think Zyrconium's last statement puts more evidence against him.

Anyway, everybody lynch TS now, it's already taken too long.

Right, because it hasn't even been a day since the game has started.

Unvote: Vote: Zycronium

[ToastyToast]

Author's note: I got ninja'd several times during the construction of this post.

Your is just blunt. It's "OH HAI GUYZ THIS GUY IS EITHER SCUM OR PR". Scum know who is scum, so either you're showing yourself up as having identified them or you're giving them a better NK. Seriously, I'd much prefer you just flat out accuse people of being scum instead of your rolefishing with your "THIS GUY ISN'T VT!!!!111"

I didn't want to have to clarify that but you insist on being so narrow-minded about it. >.<

Somehow I feel that only scum would notice this.

@ mb53: Thank you. Seriously. I am incredibly grateful. Although, I am fairly confident of Zyrc being town based on his reactions.

In other words "ZOMG he's off my back. And lets defend my scumbuddy!"

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massive post incoming

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@Kalofer: I have a case on zyrconium (spelling?), but I want to respond to recent events first.

Zyrc, editing quotes or misquoting is really scummy
Also, answering questions directed at other players is scummy too. It was addressed to vezok, not you.
And, I don't think you know enough about me to judge me as a player.

Agree with point one, definitely a part of my case.
Point 2: Not true unless your answering for them.
Point 3: A response to another terrible post by Zyrconium, but still not a great response. It doesn’t matter how you play in other games. What matters is THIS game. Unless there is something unique to your playing style, I can judge you in this game.

Even I'm not stupid enough to buddy after telling hoppster off for it

I wasn’t buddying, but I don’t like the subtle teaching that it included. Also, calling yourself stupid isn't going to help matters. Say smart things instead.

This is the last time i'll be active day 1.

Trying to make yourself a victim.

and talk about wagoning.Is no-one here going to talk about any other suspects, or are we going to let the mafia lurk and walk free? Pro-lurking tunnelers you guys are.

I don’t consider it wagoning unless there is not case attached to it. Morthas gave plenty of reasons. And I’ll try not to lurk as much—I’ve been busy

If i was scum I'd be a lot less active and be defending myself a lot more. How can i scumhunt when you guys are at my necks? Once you stop tunneling, you'll see which direction we need to head in.

FLAILING and WIFOM. This post made me rethink my town read on you, and now I’m noticing a lot. For one, you continually suggest that you WIFOM a lot. Admittance of it can’t get you away from a mistake. The direction which, I suppose, is meant to be away from you.

I knew I should have gone with inventor mafia >_>

Sounds like someone’s given up…

anyways, If anyone else declares an intention to place a vote on me, then say so, and I'll claim

CLAIM NOW OR FOREVER GIVE UP CANDY

well scum would never do it, or they'd be in the position I'm in right now :/
anyways, that wasn't the biggest point of my argument. Probably the weakest actually.

because scum wouldn't point out the faults in their own logic

DumScum would. Plus, being caught generally brings about such weak arguments. Scum also might say this to get away with their faulty logic. Twisted, I am very ready to hammer. Zyrconium can wait.

[ToastyToast]

Ghaa, slept through our RVS
But glad to know this town is planning on taking it's time, even if scum has decided to make itself known...

if we're going to go into the psycology of smilies then yes, you could say I usually dissaprove of vote switching in RVS . You RVS for pressure - why would you destroy reasonless pressure on one person to push reasonless pressure on another?

1) And why would you NOT?(P.S. direct answer is so that someone else is feeling said "reasonless pressure")

anyone want to go RQS?

2) VOTE: twistedspoon
P-Edit: FUCK, there's more than 1!(or vezok is being a retard again, I'd give it even odds)
Vezok, don't ask retarded things like that.... and if you do, do it in PMs to the mod....

Ok so Zycronium's first vote and he is already attacking Twistedspoon. Since he claims that he slept through RVS, I think its safe to assume that he's voting TP based on his two points here. Point #1 is a matter of opinion. Point #2 is based on...suggesting to ask questions? How is that scummy? Also, his last line to Vezok is teaching. Vezok can ask as many retarded things as he wants if he's scum. He doesn't attack him but suggests that Vezok doesn't do so again.

And I found a way to break the game open.
Do evil people want to know your goodies? Y/N
Just answer and say nothing more. Everyone has to do this.

This is even worse role fishing btw, and it's role fishing that if vezok is town assumes the mafia are all really really retarded..... simple logic could turn this into a massclaim.
I STRONGLY SUGGEST THAT PEOPLE DON'T ANSWER THIS.

So at this point, Zyrconium has continued to go after vezok. Yet, he doesn't vote for him and suggests that it can turn into a massclaim. I'm pretty sure that everyone, scum and town alike, would vote that evil people want to know your goodies.

Anyway, everybody lynch TS now, it's already taken too long.

@ Kalofer: There is nothing that says he is joking. Also, if it were, why didn't he respond when to people voted for him? Contributing any comment to "jokes" is always a bad idea. Just as TP has been saying "oh, i just use WIFOM a lot! ignore it," leaving Zyrconium can say "TEEHEEE I wasn't ACTUALLY trying to quick-lynch!"

Now post 82 is too long to quote, but Zyrconium only says a grand total of 5 phrases! He simply divides up the same Twisted Spoon quote he referenced earlier, playing it off as a brand new point. The whole TP encourages rolefishing thing is BS. TP turns Vezok's rolefishing

towards

him, which is fitting given that he obviously suspects Vezok. As does Zyrconium, who has now completely abandoned the Vezok issue and is instead using Vezok's posts to hurt the now-under-pressure TP.

Then there is the Hoppster buddying issue, which I have ignored but figured it should be mentioned as part of a case on him.

Add, Ad hom to my loist of reasons.

Fair enough, but...

He's refering to MB, reread the sentance, it's kinda subtle, but it's the only logical conclusion.

Whaaa, whaa, you're picking on me for talking too much!

This is AtE... it's suprisingly effective on me, but when I notice it, it pissed me off even more, if you happen to be town TS, you're really really bad at it.....

Add Ad hominem to my list of reasons. And hypocrisy.

Twistedspoon seems town to me >_>

How about offering me the same courtesy you requested and explain how you ended up with a town read on TS?

I can't even find said "courtesy." Nevertheless, you are dodging both mb53 and myself via placing more attention on TS. I don't like how Zyrconium has ignored the two votes on him, whether or not he finds them to be illogical.

I have found significant evidence against TP at this point, but it by no means makes TP our only suspect. He's just going with the most popular lynch, he only briefly talks about VEZOK-scum before turning it against TP, and has otherwise contributed very little.

[ToastyToast]

I'm still processing your case, but most of it looks good. Haven't really gone in-depth yet, though, but I needed to ask a question: Who is TP?

(Have not memorized playerlist yet x.x)

Sorry, twistedspoon. I realize TS makes more sense but i just noticed that now lol

[ToastyToast]

your gut is right
It looks like I have to claim now
am I allowed to quote my role PM?

I'm like 99% sure thats not allowed, even without looking at the rules

[ToastyToast]

your gut is right
It looks like I have to claim now
am I allowed to quote my role PM?

I'm like 99% sure thats not allowed, even without looking at the rules

Also, don't reveal any ingredients. We don't need those to lynch.

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I believe TS claim. It certainly sounds like a great fake-claim though, so I could be wrong.

Ironically, I agree with Zyrconium in 218
We should definitely keep an eye on him.

@Hoppster: No, I planned to sleep and vote in the morning. That would've given enough time for everyone to say their thoughts. Turns out I was tired and just saw the claim this morning anyway

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Wowww twisted you keep making yourself scummier. Revealing your role and having me believe it doesn't let you off the hook.

Unvote:Vote:Twistedspoon

@TS: No. you would have claimed this role and if needed used WIFOM to defend it, JUST LIKE YOU ARE.... can you please stop playing the optimal strategy for scum(badly)?

TS still isn't todays lynch his role is too confirmable and if he hasn't lied about it it's really quite townie(or 3rd party actually, but if it's 3rd party in a particularly evil fashion(again this involves him lieing), it will become obvious.

Just looked at this post again and can see Twistedspoon and Zyrconium as scum buddies. So he is the scummiest player, but that doesn't warrant a lynch. Do you suggest I go after the other option and lynch you? You are both trying to hold off a TS lynch and making yourself appear town via suggesting to look for someone else. This post bugs me, and especially the fact that I would've agreed with it if it weren't for all the WIFOM and Amrun lynch attempt by TS.

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That wasn't a hammer...at least I counted the votes. If it is, I apologize, but I still think I'm right.

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According to the votecount it should be only 4 votes on him

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@Hoppster: Twistedspoon said he would claim if someone indicated an intent to vote him. I showed that intent, given the case I formed against him. I don't regret doing so.

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Hmm, I think I'm going to have to ISO vezopiraka. His switch to TS is...weak. Also, I think Amrun has a PM that suggests TS as scum, but TS could also be an exception.

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Amrun, read what Stels said. We shouldn't assume anything. If TS is lynched, it should be because of the proof against him and his various scummy acts, not the apparent suggestion by the role PM.

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I don't really know at this point. However, as Kalofer says, if we lynch TS because of your information and he flips scum, you'll probably get NK. Also, the THREAT of you revealing something like this can get you NK. So, I am okay with a partial reveal.

[ToastyToast]

Happy Birthday Amrun!

We really need to lynch TS today.

Unvote:TwistedSpoon

zyrconium and vezok are scum.

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zyrconium and vezok are scum.

then why aren't you voting them?

how can you call someone scum without voting them?

v. suspicious

I'm not going to put down a vote before building a case on them. And I already have voted zyrconium.

[ToastyToast]

Why do you think vezok is scum?

Its more than just this reason, but he's been on my scumlist for a while. I hope to give a full case soon, but I've been busy with school this week. But, just look at page 17. A post that says: WE NEED TO LYNCH TS! Followed by an unvote after I point out how scummy that sounds. How does someone change there mind that fast? Add this to his early-game fishing....I can definately see Zyrconium-Vezok scum buddies.

That page is the main thing that set me off, but I'll compile a more complete list too.

[ToastyToast]

Actually, scratch that. Vezok's second post was before I pointed it out, but the sudden shift is very suspicious.

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@TS: because some people, like me, believe in "lynch all liars" policy.

@Amrun: I'm willing to believe your town-read on vezok, but...

@Vezok: Can you link a game so I can see if this meta is correct?

Votes on Hazard seems like people trying to choose an easy lynch.

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Why would they have the exact same role PM if they were different alignments?

Because one could be lying. Since TS claimed first, most likely him if that were the case.

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crazypianist has a good point. So do you think Hazard or TS is lying? I think a town role that steals ingredients is plausible, but also something to look out for given Amrun's PM info.

[ToastyToast]

crazypianist has a good point. So do you think Hazard or TS is lying? I think a town role that steals ingredients is plausible, but also something to look out for given

Amrun's PM

info.

Wait! What?

If you don't have Amrun's PM then you must be a zoo visitor. But you aren't. That means you are either some other PR or scum.

That is a very hasty conclusion. I have not claimed at all so I could be a zoo visitor, I could be scum, or I could have Amrun's PM. This rolefishing and Zyrconiums "PLEASE STOP ROLEFISHING" are why I think both are scum.

[ToastyToast]

vezok, can you pleeeeeeeeeeeeasse stop rolefishing soon?

But by the amount of rolefishing already done, or could be done just by carefully deducting how much damage can this do now?
From where i see it, it just makes the information public to those who don't bother thinking deeper and i can bet our scum could already figure that stuff out... You know, people's highest scum suspect being TS and such. Whoever isn't voting, VOTE already. I'd like to atleast see who your top suspect is

I still approve of a Hazard lynch~~
I also FoS at Kalofer

Vote: Zyrconium

for the earlier case given. Why do you suspect Kalofer?

[ToastyToast]

I'm not really keen on a Zyrconium lynch.

why not?

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You could be lying right now. We don't know.
Better to erase all doubt.

justifying a townie death with 'oh, well he lied' isn't enough

Lynch all Liars is common, so yes, it is. Given all the votes on you, its obvious that there are enough reasons to suspect you as scum. LaL philosophy just contributes

@Hoppster: the only reason I see to suspect you at scum is via relationship with zyrconium. so, your just a null read.

[ToastyToast]

@Kalofer: So I can assume from your list that you think vezok is town? interesting

Also, that is quite a lot of people to suspect. scumpoints increase by +2

I would much rather lynch Zyrconium today. As much as I stand for LAL, I understand TS's defense. I don't like it, but I understand it.

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On a side note, I think vezo is town from his early "Do evil people want your goodies" question.

How is this a townread? His rolefishing is a negative for me.

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Yeah, but I'm not sure scum would have known enough to ask that question.
Also I have personally killed vezok for rolefishing before and he turned up town.

And so we should ignore it? My point is that people are calling him town regardless of his gameplay. I understand if its meta, but it doesn't stay like that EVERY TIME and should not be used to immediately call him town.

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TS is just bad-town. slipped and lied for foolish reasons, but its been like that from the beginning
I am much more confident with my Zyrconium read--its that simple.

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so you didn't consider yourself to be a PR? Thats confusing.
@hoppster: I agree with your thought process and regret answering vezok's question, but how does the question result in suspicions on TS but not vezok?

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Hmmm, perhaps you KNOW that you have the same role

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Kalofer/Hazard

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Unvote:Vote:Twistedspoon

your posts have now stopped making any sense to me whatsoever (as a town). If you do flip town, I have my suspicions, but I consider your claimed role to be dangerous.

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that should be L-1

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@Kalofer: that doesn't make any sense. You have legitimately spent 0 time making a case on me and Nobody special. Back at the beginning we were null reads for you, and I see no change in your opinion until now.

so, tell me: why do you want a NS/toasty lynch?

[ToastyToast]

TS is scummy enough to warrant a lynch, him getting lynched will probably clarify the Hazard issue, and people are just going to get back onto TS if he is around D2.

Its not my preferred action, but I don't think any other lynch has enough support to back it.

[ToastyToast]

Toasty and NS, you're scum, I shall make no case.

and yes, I have gone insane

fail

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Vote:Zyrconium

You know my reasons

Let's not be dumb and vote Hazard, plz. His counterclaim was most likely legit.

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I'm not seeing amrun-scum, but i'm seeing morthas scum
Pretty much congratulates the doctor, which is a mafia indicator.
hoppster has a good find

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(Hazard's victim should point out that they're Hazard's victim btw)

When was it said that they would know?
but, nonetheless, since we already know he allegedly has the same role as TS, Hazard should give us his action.

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Actually.
Zoo visitors: Claim who you targeted. If they got stuff the person is confirmed VT.

I'm partially in favor of this. Hazard already claimed zoo visitor, so what did HE do?

And what in my play other than a lack of association with morthas makes me scum? Morthas hasn't done much worth commenting on thus far, and I have stronger reads elsewhere. He was null for me D1, but he's a better vote than NS. Need to ISO him.

From what i remember Toasty, who in my opinion doesn't seem to have town motivations for his various standings on players but hey, it might be me wrong or his bad play.

Such as...?

[ToastyToast]

Toasty, explain to me why you think Hazard claiming is even remotely a good idea.m

Helps us figure out how the PR works. I'm starting to thing hazard should only tell us if we are close to lynching that person. Do you think its wrong to assume that scum have no ingredients?

[ToastyToast]

Wait, you aren't told what ingredients you get?
That rings REALLY false to me.

Howso? If we are to take TS' statements as truth, then he would not know exactly what he could make.

[ToastyToast]

@Hazard: Are there specific ingredients you need in order to make your item? Or do you simply need ingredients?

[ToastyToast]

Just checking back in while i'm on.

A better question is what does scum gain if said secret is revealed?
ROLE INFORMATION.
What does town gain if that secret is revealed?
NOTHING.

^^This will be added to my case on zyrconium

Also, I would like to see a Zyrc scum list.

[ToastyToast]

Ah, nearly forgot about TT, use your brain a lil, maybe then you'll look as if your scumhunting
Sorry for lurking, it's just that the amount of stupidity going on makes me hesitant to post

You aren't scum-hunting. You're just trying to get role information

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@Morthas: I am for it only if the person he targeted gets to L-1, or if he gets to L-1. That way we avoid giving scum any easy role information.

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@TT: Could you specify what kind of role information do you hope to conceal?

Who should scum avoid targeting, given that Hazard took their ingredients away; What hazard can make (yes, I realize he's already denying that)

[ToastyToast]

We asked for the RESULT of your action.

No, we didn't

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Amrun, you keep changing your mind on what you want to know. I have no idea what you are talking about anymore. You should've clearly explained what you wanted him to say--he already explained that his results don't really tell him if he can make anything/what he was given.

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wait--so you think he was lying but accept his information?

Also, Hazard: I don't quite understand your results. So, you were under the premise that targeting would result in the gathering of goods for in exchange for a power. Instead, you got in a QT with Kalofer. Seems an odd situation

. Kalofer, do you support his claim?

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Do you have to hide behind something? Or is this a role different from the typical hider?

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I find this quick topic thing to be a little sketch. If only Zoo visitors can get into a QT, thats like a possible 3-person masonry in a mini. OP. I think we have to assume that if a Visitor picks scum, they would also get into a quick topic. So, this does not make me automatically think Kalofer is town--a little skeptical. I do, however, have a stronger town-read on Hazard now that he has come out with the information.

Nobody Special's use of LAL is bad. Thats how TS died, if you've forgotten.

Amrun seems to clear people as town too quickly

Hoppster's claim is null: Hider's are typically a great scum claim, because they are hard to prove/disprove. The fact that he doesn't have to hide behind anyone makes this even moreso. Hoppster, what happens if more than one person targets you? Is there a limit to you hiding or do you have the power throughout the game?

Zyrconium is still on my scumlist, but my list as a whole has shifted.

[ToastyToast]

Amrun, do you not see the possibility that Kalofer could've targeted Hoppster and recieved nothing because of some scum role?
do you not see the possibility that both are scum who want to make one another confirmed town?

[ToastyToast]

Eh, I think you are misreading it. I have reservations about you being town. In other words, your confirmation is null.
Hazard is closer to town that you are atm, and this does not seem like a scum ability. You guys can legitimately both be zoo visitors (which is why I'm against lynching either of you). BUT I HAVE A LITTLE PLAN. Your QT ability can allow you to act like pseudo-cops, finding either scum or zoo visitors . Don't think there would be more than 3 visitors if they can all talk to one another, so that means if either of you end up in another quick topic N2...well, aim it like an investigate. It can potentially give us great information.

The obvious downside is that we're giving info to scum too, but given that both of you have already claimed zoo visitor....

[ToastyToast]

There is something about Amrun that has been bugging me lately.
Its partially from the way he has gone about the Hazard claim
But there is also his vote on Zyrconium. Although he's a scum read of mine, his vote comes off as artificial.

Not to mention his town reads. His 3 town reads come off as artificial too. Its basically "these people are town, BUT DONT LOOK AT ME IF I CHANGE THEM!"

Town read on me: I'm voting for Zyrconium
Town read on Kalofer:???
Town read on Hoppster: I'm guessing your claim, but I don't see that as a town tell.

It makes a difference because 1) it can be tracker and 2) hiders usually die if they hide behind scum (its investigative)
Instead, you are basically bulletproof and can't be targeted. Quite a powerful role, especially in the hands of scum.

So, you've gone from town to null and amrun is leaning scum. Need to ISO her.

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response to Hoppster. He asked me what has changed about my scum reads

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Yes, but it may or may not be about me and my reads. I can't be sure, because if it is, then you called me "he" and "she" in the same post.

sorry...it was a really quick post.

I was referring to you though. Basically, why the sudden switch to Zyrconium, and why are you writing hoppster and kalofer off as town?

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@TT: how scummy do you think NS is?

I don't like his application of Lynch all Liars, but thats the only thing I REALLY have against him.

Friends of the Zoo (in no particular order)
Stels
crazypianist
mb53
Hazard With a Glove (leaning town)

People who don't know where they belong
vezokpiraka
nobody special
hoppster
Kalofer

Enemies of the Zoo (I've been in a very observatory state for this game, but Morthas and Amrun are both leaning scum)
Morthas
Amrun
Zyrconium

Does that help?
My one problem with the list is that my three scum reads are each voting for a different person. So, they don't make much sense as a scum team.

I can see Amrun/hoppster/kalofer as a scum team based on association, but their individual play suggests otherwise.

Sudden? I had suspicions of Zyrconium from day 1. Deciding to place my vote there today didn't feel strange to me at all.
And I have decided to "write Kalofer and Hoppster off as town" because I've had townreads on them from the beginning of the game (with a small bit of waffle on Kalofer) and the information that came out today makes me more confident in those reads. How is having townreads odd? Everyone should have some townreads by this point.

I'm more or less referring to you switch from Hazard to Zyrconium. You say he could be lying, but don't challenge him after that, then say you want to keep him around.

Your right--everyone should have town reads. But the fact that the two people who confirmed one another's night actions are your two town reads? interesting coincidence.

Also, why the town read on me? I formed a decent case on zyrconium early on, but...I admit to my inactivity (as Kalofer mentioned). Seems like every time I check, nothing happens. But when I don't say anything one day, I end up having to catch up again.

[ToastyToast]

Toasty, Hoppster and Kalofer I've had townreads on since D1. For the purposes of today, I won't be lynching either of them. Later in the game, things may change; we'll see.

Painful misread on my part.

Your town reads came when I was questioning Hoppster. The possible scum motivation is in the fact that you wrote them off too easily based on it. Also, your D1 read on Kalofer was not as strong as you make it out to be.

It was me connecting the dots. I had a strong town read on you D1, but now that TS is lynched, I have to look at it from a different perspective.
Also, I admitted to my poor posting recently. I'm surprised your being so defensive about it. Virtually the opposite of how Zyrconium has reacted to my vote on him.

[ToastyToast]

I don't have a case on you, I have issues with you that I'm trying to clear up.

No, not too quick. I just don't understand where they came from.

[ToastyToast]

@CP: added factors convincing me that I'm correct about Zyrconium include his want to lynch Hazard in the same way he wanted to lynch TS. Trying to take out two PR's? Yeah, no thanks. His hop onto Nobody Special is bad because its hopping onto someone who was having the same issues with Hazard as he was. Like, "hey, I've changed my opinion. You haven't. Go die."
I also do not like the fact that he has done absolutely nothing to defend himself against those who are accusing him (no response to my case, asking for OTHER scum reads instead of asking for the reasons for Amruns vote).
He also seems to have this terrible habit of telling people to scum-hunt when he isn't doing much himself.

Yeah, I realized I have a lot of lurky town. I think this is partly because the active players that were on my town list at the end of D1 (Amrun, Hoppster) have made me skeptical. Odds are that one of my town-reads is wrong, but I feel that despite being lurkers, contributions have been pro-town. I like mb53-town but he's V/LA. I also have a strong town read on Crazypianist based on his D1 actions.

Whats the real coincidence is how Zyrconium's scum-reads have a place on my town.

[ToastyToast]

You need to re-read my responses to CrazyPianist. He was wondering if it was just a coincidence that most of my town reads were lurkers. I don't consider mb53 a lurker, but he's been V/LA so it probably seems like that.

Stels is a townread, NS is not.

I don't like NS' use of LAL, but I don't see a reason to vote him for any reason other than that.

If your response to point 1 is accurate, why then did you doubt Hazard's claim and not TS'?

[ToastyToast]

^ Are you SURE about that town-read TT?(real question: Do you see why that post should make you question it?)

In light of recent posting, no, Stels is no longer a town-read. My read was based on D1, as I didn't see scum motivation behind his vote.

[ToastyToast]

Unvote:Zyrconium

until I ISO Stels.

[ToastyToast]

Toasty, I even did all the 'hard work' for you. Surely my totally awesome case should be incriminating enough.

I don't sheep

[ToastyToast]

I don't sheep

>>
It's not sheeping to be convinced by a logical argument imo...
Do you disagree with my case?

It's a good argument, but is it really that hard to believe that I like to find additional information b4 voting? I've been behind in this game so I want to make sure not to just accept your case blindly/without more reasons. Patience

[ToastyToast]

Things I like about Stels:
1)One of the few people who showed strong reservations about voting TS
2)Mapped out his suspicions on different people

Things I don't like about Stels:
1)His "I don't want to speculate on set-up but...I'm going to speculate now" moments; especially the one when he suggests that there might be 2 scum teams. What happened that would suggest that
2)See Hoppsters post
3)Voting NS based on "morthas' logic." LOL.
4) His "ridicule' methods on zyrconium--seems to be creating an ad hominem argument against him
5) Bad reason for voting crazy

Vote:Stels

My Issues with the wagon:
1)It built up wayy too fast.
2) My gut was strong enough to put him on my town list. Logic points elsewhere, but I'm still doubtful

[ToastyToast]

Also toast is scum with Stels.

because I thought he was town? yeah, no, not good enough

[ToastyToast]

Toast

He isn't scum because he had a scum read on Stels. He is scum because of his last vote. It doesn't even matter if Stels flips scum. Hoppster made a case and voted. Toast didn't barn it but instead waited to see the reaction of other players. Someone else comes and puts a vote on Stels and he immediately votes Stels. He is either bussing for town points, or just voting him and appear townie.

Except there is one key problem with that. You see, I have this thing called life that I have to pay attention to. Your logic pretty much says that I have been sitting at my computer waiting for other people to comment. Only I can know if such a thing is true, but I assure you that I spent time catching up to all my games and then came back later.

In other news, happy birthday!!

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@Stels: So you don't actually have a Night Action, but your PM says you play music? Pretty strange role

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@vezok: there is no way I'm agreeing to a mass claim. Why do you keep role fishing? isn't it obvious that it fucked us up in that two Zoo visitors are now dead?

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@Hazard: If Hoppster wants all Zoo Visitors to target someone, then why does he want himself targeted? May just be a phrasing issue

waiting for some more input from people

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Hence the colors in the word "imagination" and the role PM. yeah, I already figured that was the case, but

1) Did anyone get targeted by Kalofer
2) I don't think we should assume scum doesn't have candy--they may have to keep something to throw the visitors off (it wouldn't be a game with 3 cops)

[ToastyToast]

I'm feeling sweet about a cp lynch.
But then again, I did for Stels, too.

I think cp lynch is a mistake. We were wrong about the first two lurker/VI players, and I don't think we should be looking there again.

[ToastyToast]

But can we afford to bring cp into lylo?

Well if we aim for people who seem scum rather than null, we shouldn't need to worry about lylo

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@vezok: there is no way I'm agreeing to a mass claim. Why do you keep role fishing? isn't it obvious that it fucked us up in that two Zoo visitors are now dead?

This hasn't been answered yet.

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GRR so many walls!
@Hazard: Can you plz explain exactly what your results were from Zyrconium target? Your power is the reason I think you should be kept alive. If we lynch the last (claimed) zoo visitor then we may be in trouble.

This means I think(based on VCA, and exclusion of town reads)
that 1 person of {crazypianist} is scum
that 1 person of {VV OR Hazard} is scum
and that one person of {TT OR Hoppster OR vezok} is scum.

So you effectively suspect 6 of the remaining players in the game. Also, explain why its 1 of 2 and 1 of 3 for two of them. LIke, if either VV or Hazard is scum (false dilemma btw), why are they together in a group and not, say, VV or Hoppster?

What part of Vas' wall/setup speculation addresses lylo? I've skimmed it a few times, Ctrl + F'd 'lylo', and neither have had any luck.

Which is why Zyrconium needs to die. What is the current view on Zyrc?

And this here is why VV needs to die.
Seriously, someone other than VV who's hopping on my wagon(read:amrun) explain why VV thinks I'm scum.... he's so far pointed out that my conclusions aren't logical, and I'll disprove that in just a sec, but he's got fuck all to say that my conclusions are scummy, and has yet to finish reading the game and is STILL leading a bandwagon on me?(this is a little bit defensive, but baseless fucktardery get's on my nerves, it's a character flaw, I'll admit, especially on the internet.)

Honestly, Zyrc, you had enough suspicion on you D1 for VV to make a vote at that point in his re-read.
Not likin' the whole "defensive" thing. Like "ITS NOT SCUMMY ITS JUST MY PERSONALITY!"
Methinks you ARE a little frustrated, which is why you case basically results in an "oh, im wrong about this part but look at this thing!"

P.S. actually, think I'm reading this wrong, VV is scum because this directly contradicts where he stated:

But his "Vas is probably right about this one very specific thing he mentioned in a big wall about lots of things" reaction is very off.

explain to me VV, why the fuck that statement is there if you never even said the thing I'm obviously leaping to conclusions about in the first place?

Don't even know what you are trying to say here. The conclusion that he's scum?

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I don't have a problem with your being frustrated as much as I do with you actually saying it. I don't like apologies on posted content.
I have a problem with the whole VV thing because, why, if you say you are reading VV wrong, would you mention the first part in your post. Its as if you are taking away the authority of the first half of your post in favor of the second.

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@Zyrconium: So are you most sure of VV scum? I'm not a big fan of his recent plays either, but I think its just because he took on a game the he didn't really have time for.

And I refuse to vote Hazard today for reason that he could be the last Zoo Visitor

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@Hoppster: that would all depend on the results of today. Hoppster-Hazard-Morthas scum team =LOLZ. Which makes me ask the question, who are likely Hazard scumbuddies?

Vote: Vezokpiraka

stop hiding behind meta and answer my question.

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I was V/LA.
I just came back.
What were your questions toast?

Earlier in the day you explained that you wanted a mass-claim, but you never explained why.

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@mb53: I interpreted his "do evil people want your goodies" question as a scum tell, soo not seing your stance there.

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Hmm. The vezok vote was definately off. Which reminds me: I don't like his answer at all and think people are basing their reads on him based solely on meta. That isn't enough. However, he is not my main suspect and as such,

Unvote:Vezok

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TT: Vote your main suspect ;D

Lol, isn't that obvious? Morthas, Zyrconium, Hoppster, Vezok
Because I've consistently not like him....

Vote:Zyrconium

Im against a Hazard lynch despite his fail circular logic.
Morthas hasn't made many good cases, and keeps disappearing when suspicion gets on him
Zyrconium is just going after the easy lynches; although I agree with his comments on fail-post by CP, him and Amrun trying to lynch him so he's not there during lylo=bad reason. We lynch someone if we are sure they're scum. Because lynching scum prevents lylo.
Hoppster's claim is sketchy sketch

Yeah, I know I'm not doing much to convince people, but those are the people I'm willing to lynch today.

[ToastyToast]

List of reads 6 days ago from CP, now he has a couple of days to make a REALLY good case on VP or he should die, can we agree on this?

Using a lack of information/prod-doging to make a case, and setting a time limit on his responses. Thats why I connected you to the Amrun-lylo thing. Your basically asking for a policy lynch.

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hoppster is not the best vote today simply because 1)not enough people suspect him and 2)my suspicions are based only on his claim, not his play. He's not slipping up and thus its not enough to warrant a vote.

something in this game died, we've hit a bump and should probably decide on a lynch soon.

[ToastyToast]

1)Hoppster, did something change about your avatar?
2)Im against it, but I suppose a claim wouldn't hurt.

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Only at deadline

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Hey Crazy could you also tell us what else did the pm say? I love the humor inserted to those ;D

No, scum.

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Just got done with them, so I'll be here @ deadline

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:/ we were doing well the first two days for activity too! I, like everyone else posting, have absolutely nothing to say other than that I think lynching cp is a poor choice other than the point Amrun made about bringing cp to lylo. Zyrconium-Hoppster-Morthas are all preferred. Not to mention that Morthas has not put in much effort either, and so I think if we lynch cp based on his play (or lack there)--well, can we really bring a player like him to mylo/lylo?

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So, I was scanning through cp, and noticed that morthas did not once mention him until the lynch was getting popular. As far as associations go, he could definately be the suspect.

Vote:Morthas

Also, did anyone have lemon and lime at some point. Because if they did, that means CP stole from them. If not, that means candy animals are scum too. Interested to see what zyrconium has to say.

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have we srsly taken out every lurker in lynches? lol.
You guys dodged my question by the way. DID anyone here have lemon and lime goodies? that will help us understand if they were in fact stolen from town

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Lack of "ZOMG THOSE WERE MY LIMES" would suggest nobody had limes.

So scum do probably have their own goodies.

Or said goodies were stolen from someone who is now dead.

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i sense that we shouldn't trust him. Just sayin'. What was your intention of lynching NS over TS? You took his goodies and was therefore useless to you? Also, how many goodies do you have atm?

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Well, he did say its guaranteed not to make any sense.

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I want to hear from hoppster and morthas first, at the least. Day hasn't been opened long.

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Just feel like ending this day before hearing reactions is a bad idea.

I mean, what are our options really? Risk a third party win by keeping mb53 alive another day? CP had 2 goodies, but Amrun had 5. Whose to say he can't win in just a single night phase?

but mb53, do you have any last words? more importantly, who should be lynched tomorrow, in your opinion?

[ToastyToast]

Yeah, I'm ready to do this. Sorry if you guys wanted to wait longer but we can't let a 3rd party roam free. He's dangerous.

Unvote:Vote:mb53

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@TT: did you miss where it was pointed out how REDICULOUSLY pro-mafia the action you just took was, to a better degree, what possible pro-town reason is there for rushing along a lynch that was so obviously going to happen?.

Oh, so many things I can say about this. SO many. Did you ever stop to think, maybe I did it on purpose? Perhaps I was reaction fishing?
And it stops stimulating discussion? LOL WHAT DISCUSSION? THIS GAME DOESN"T DISCUSS ANYTHING. If you think its scummy to put a claimed third party on L-1--OR hammer a third party, for that matter, then you need to go to "catching scum 101" class.

Don't think for a second that I don't think YOUR scum. You are still my number one read, and still the constant second preferred person every time this game opens for another day.

What part of, "he's too dangerous to keep around" do you not understand? Allying with a third party is something a scum team would do, especially when town does not know the setup--a setup that is not guaranteed to make any sense. SO lets take those hard-to-understand elements out of the picture? What else is there to discuss? The fact that you were probably just WAITING for someone to put a vote down? I'm not rushing a lynch, I've waited for reactions, like I said I would. mb53 gave no last words, and no one else made any input. So, in my opinion, this day is over.

[ToastyToast]

I did wait, mr. scum morthas. thats what i said. I said I would wait, I waited, nothing happened, I voted. Don't even try to make it any more complicated.

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If you think my response to Zyrconium, you haven't read the thread. He's been my number one suspect since D1, and as such I find using his points against me to be irrelevant.

How would I react to me if I were another player? What kind of question is that? I would agree with me because if I were another player I'd still have the same scum reads. That question is just ASKING to lead me into WIFOM, by the way.

[ToastyToast]

Whats This?

I want to hear from hoppster and morthas first, at the least. Day hasn't been opened long.

i hear from Morthas.

Wait if we presume scum have the ability to steal candy aswell, doesn't having him alive dangerous? (especially since town had a couple of their zoo visitors dieing)
Honestly, i do not believe his claims,

im thinking more in line of that he may be a fat kid buuut he is of scum alignment so please hammer away ;D[

/quote]

I hear from Hoppster

Anything specific, or were you just waiting for my input on the claim?
I do wish Hazard to elaborate on his "I BELIEVE DAT CLAIM" post before hammer now in addition to Pine's catch-up post.

We've been waiting for this rumored catchup post for quite a while now.
My RESPONSE to Hoppster, which the two of you have so graciously labeled as a contradiction.

Just feel like ending this day before hearing reactions is a bad idea.

I mean, what are our options really? Risk a third party win by keeping mb53 alive another day?

CP had 2 goodies, but Amrun had 5. Whose to say he can't win in just a single night phase?
but mb53,

do you have any last words?

more importantly, who should be lynched tomorrow, in your opinion?

This expressed my intent to hammer. After mb53 responded, zyrconium and hazard mention their leaning towards an mb53 lynch--that was plenty. And if players are going to do the bear minimum and say "YAY HAMMER" without any interrogations or further concerns, then I'm going to hammer.

Why the hell would anyone want to kill you because you are 3rd party?

Really? 3rd parties aren't alligned with the town. You don't just let them prance around the thread until they achieve their win-con.

[ToastyToast]

Ok those quotes were messed up. Hopefully you guys can figure out when im talking

[ToastyToast]

"If you think my response to Zyrconium is based on OMGUS, you haven't read the thread."

Thats no a contradiction, I can have more than one suspect. D1, I had a vote on zyrc; D2, I had a vote on him; D3, I had a vote on him; D4, I had a vote on you, and it was related to the CP flip.

If you can't figure out what parts im saying......just...wow. See the /quote at the end of the first part? thats when your quote end. The rest is my stuff.

You also said. HAMMER AWAY. So, your not scummy for suggesting it but im OMGSCUM for actually doing it?

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Upon trying really hard to take issue with TT, I've only got one query:

Why TT, are you voting for mb(who as far as I can tell, you expect to be 3rd party(feel free to correct)), over me or Mothras(who you've stated openly you think are scum)?

Implied question: "Which alignment do you think mb is?"

His claim is faulty, and I would much prefer lynching someone we KNOW isn't town as opposed to someone who I think isn't town.

I think his claim works for a third party, but it can just as easily be a mafia role (leaning third party). If he does in fact have 7 goodies and only needs 7 more to win, then he's too dangerous to keep around another round.

[ToastyToast]

Please hammer the obvious anti-town third party.

You can win with the town yes. But you can also win with the scum. Another problem. You are stealing goodies. Town needs that.

Get the fuck out and die.

THANKYOU

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Huh. I'm pleasantly surprised by Pine's post. zyrconium, hoppster, morthas are all people who I have had suspicions on (but hoppster more for his claim than for the kills). I would say more but I need to sleep.

[ToastyToast]

For me, the last scum is either Morthas or Hoppster. More later, but zyrconium is now confirmed town as far as i'm concerned.

[ToastyToast]

Agreed (re: Zyrconium)

TT, if you're down to Morthas or Hoppster, why is your vote uncommitted? Hoppster is today's lynch.

Not sure what the lynch threshold lynch is, and I'd prefer Morthas.

[ToastyToast]

Wait, N2 - No Action? You didn't mention anything about not being able to hide every night.

Let me just answer this obvious incident of someone forgetting about D2. Hoppster claimed and said he would not act so that a zoo visitor could target him and help bring truth to his claim.

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@Hoppster: With regards to your claim, does it say that your protection is guaranteed? Given the whole weak and coward thing, it sounds is if you are more of a weak doc that dies if scum is targeted. Which makes you a type of advanced hider.

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@Hoppster: With regards to your claim, does it say that your protection is guaranteed? Given the whole weak and coward thing, it sounds is if you are more of a weak doc that dies if scum is targeted. Which makes you a type of advanced hider.

Umm, what do you mean by guaranteed?

I assume that if I am roleblocked the protection will fail. Just like any other protection. It's also implied that it only protects 'once' - ie, if there were two people trying to kill the same person and I protected them, the number of kills would override my (one) protect.[/quote]

I'm saying that you role only matches your flavor if you are a weak doctor of some sort. A protection role by a "weak" and "cowardly" person doesn't make much sense to me.

[ToastyToast]

quote faill.

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Why are you not voting for Hoppster, TT? Morthas isn't the lynch right now.

trust me, I've been pondering it. Have been considering if his case on CP is something scum would do in order to help clear themselves (attack a likely viable lynch-buddy)

Vote:Hoppster

[ToastyToast]

Okay, its been over a day and no one has commented. What is going on. People who aren't voting, give us your biggest suspect (and,preferably, vote them. This is unproductive

[ToastyToast]

@Mod: Plz prod self and Hazard

maybe if he says something it'll stimulate...something

[ToastyToast]

FUCK.
THIS.
SHIT.

vote Hoppster

Told you I'd get bored.... also talked way to much about Homestuck.

O.o I came back and something happened!

[ToastyToast]

Yayyy! I knew his claim was too good to be true.
Great game, guys. I think the number one problem town had was the inactivity levels. However, the scum team didn't blend in well enough. Figured one member (hoppster) would bus another (crazypianist) to gain town cred at some point.

Town MVP:

Me

zyrconium for his mb53 catch (sorry for suspecting you )
Scum MVP: Hoppster

[ToastyToast]

Idk, I might give town MVP to Pine.

Definitely one of the best replacements in the games i've played .

[ToastyToast]

I'm glad my fail-suspicion on Zyconium threw u off