Mini 1138 - Candy Zoo Mafia (Game Over!)

[Zyrconium]

Ghaa, slept through our RVS

But glad to know this town is planning on taking it's time, even if scum has decided to make itself known...

if we're going to go into the psycology of smilies then yes, you could say I usually dissaprove of vote switching in RVS . You RVS for pressure - why would you destroy reasonless pressure on one person to push reasonless pressure on another?

1) And why would you NOT?(P.S. direct answer is so that someone else is feeling said "reasonless pressure")

anyone want to go RQS?

2) VOTE: twistedspoon

P-Edit: FUCK, there's more than 1!(or vezok is being a retard again, I'd give it even odds)

Vezok, don't ask retarded things like that.... and if you do, do it in PMs to the mod....

[Zyrconium]

And I found a way to break the game open.

Do evil people want to know your goodies? Y/N

Just answer and say nothing more. Everyone has to do this.

This is even worse role fishing btw, and it's role fishing that if vezok is town assumes the mafia are all really really retarded..... simple logic could turn this into a massclaim.

I STRONGLY SUGGEST THAT PEOPLE DON'T ANSWER THIS.

[Zyrconium]

And I found a way to break the game open.

Do evil people want to know your goodies? Y/N

Just answer and say nothing more. Everyone has to do this.

This is even worse role fishing btw, and it's role fishing that if vezok is town assumes the mafia are all really really retarded..... simple logic could turn this into a massclaim.

I STRONGLY SUGGEST THAT PEOPLE DON'T ANSWER THIS.

[Zyrconium]

Ok, should have read the last page before posting that...

[Zyrconium]

Anyway, everybody lynch TS now, it's already taken too long.

[Zyrconium]

not sure what I think of switching votes in RVS

Cautious to the extent of AVOIDING scumhunting.... so not town....

anyone want to go RQS?

Deflecting with fluff upon being accused.

What do we do with the items we have? Can we donate them? Maybe if some one gets them all we win:D.

WOAH

what do you mean by 'if someone gets them'
Is it even possible to transfer items?

what reasons do you have for thinking this? I hope this isn't role-fishing vezok from execution mafia again.

Helping vezok rolefish while looking to discourage it(his question)

The mod isn't going to tell us what they do. I think they form some sort of recipe. Maybe when we get some items we can make stuff and gain powers.

Also do you think a mass claim of ingredients is a good thing?

[ur=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFGfWrJR5Ckl]NO[/url]

what makes you believe that these ingredients aren't just here for flavour reasons?
What makes you think they are collectable?

and mass claims are hardly ever to the town's advantage
mafia learn who has what and town only get the wrong ideas from mafia claims.

all town need to do is lynch scum

Ingredients will either help scum or distact us from scumhunting.

Vezok, you're digging your own grave here

Rolefishing VEZOK, while trying to discourage rolefishing.

Vezok seems to know too much for a VT role.
noted.

SHouldn't have to explain this one...

his last 3 posts have all been defenses too.

[Zyrconium]

Add, Ad hom to my loist of reasons.

[Zyrconium]

Twistedspoon seems town to me >_>

How about offering me the same courtesy you requested and explain how you ended up with a town read on TS?

[Zyrconium]

Hrmm, Amrun, perhaps you should give Hazard a pointer to other important things for him to comment on that he missed?

[Zyrconium]

But flailing and defending myself is scummish.

@mb & TS: You're already doing this, the only thing using logic would do is make your case look competent... I can't really see a downside there.

[Zyrconium]

He's refering to MB, reread the sentance, it's kinda subtle, but it's the only logical conclusion.

Whaaa, whaa, you're picking on me for talking too much!

This is AtE... it's suprisingly effective on me, but when I notice it, it pissed me off even more, if you happen to be town TS, you're really really bad at it.....

[Zyrconium]

Ok UNVOTE:

TS might still be evil but I expect that to be made exceedingly apparent from night actions(he's choosing someone night 1, and if he has a negative effect on PRs we're lynching him instantly).

To be specific, there's no doubt in my mind he's telling the truth about his role, his alignment however is still questionable.

And TS, VI.... your defense managed to convince pretty much everyone you were scum.

[Zyrconium]

Scum would want you to waste time by defending youself? Bs. Scum would want all the attention diverted at someone who can't defend themselves (which is what happening to you right now ;D). Bad logic
...
UNVOTE: VOTE: TwistedSpoon
You all should know why.

These two lines irked me at the time, but with the qualifier of "if TS is inno" it didn't seem worth bringing up then.

P-Edit: Seriously give me 5 mins mb?

[Zyrconium]

TS: if you're not lieing you're town aligned, if you ARE lieing I'm not really expecting you to point it out... (You'd think this would be stating the obvious, but apparently not)

[Zyrconium]

@Stels: for both of our sakes, could you make a non-RVS vote or a case on me?

Anyway, everybody lynch TS now, it's already taken too long.

Right, because it hasn't even been a day since the game has started.

Unvote: Vote: Zycronium

This might actually be worth my time to explain, it was a somewhat unserious fashion of making sure everyone made their stance on the TS wagon clear, kindof a joke, but for a very specific purpose.

This is about all the defending I think the case deserves, Kalo, if you want more, make a better case.

(if you don't want more, make a better case elsewhere)

[Zyrconium]

@Kalo: L-3, one of which is RVS and one of which is OMGUS(if TS was playing better it'd be worth counting)...

I did accidentally attribute some of the TT stuff to mb, so perhaps that's worth addressing, of course I hate his posts for the exact opposite reason he stated he hates mine(this is terrible misrep, or, exageration for humourous effect in an attempt to make this activity seem less like work, please choose only 1), wall posts with little mini walls among them all.

[Zyrconium]

@TS: No. you would have claimed this role and if needed used WIFOM to defend it, JUST LIKE YOU ARE.... can you please stop playing the optimal strategy for scum(badly)?

TS still isn't todays lynch his role is too confirmable and if he hasn't lied about it it's really quite townie(or 3rd party actually, but if it's 3rd party in a particularly evil fashion(again this involves him lieing), it will become obvious.

[Zyrconium]

You're going to have to elaborate at this point.

My role indicates that he must be scum.

Concurrence =/= causality.... especially in a mafia game....

This means that since X wants Z and Y wants Z. X isn't neccesarilly Y.

[Zyrconium]

P.S. I get why people think TS is scum, I just happen to think his role doesn't do it the way scum would, and if he's not scum, then him stealing candy doesn't help scum(directly, we'll get to that at a later date, when we'll likely decide that TS shouldn't use his powers anyway, but he has to tonight anyway for verification reasons)

[Zyrconium]

vezok; "My role PM says he's not scum"
Amrun: "Mine doesn't, in fact it says he is scum"
vezok: "Oh, he must be scum then"

Is any of this incorrect vezok?

Why is Amrun's role PM so much more BELIEVABLE than yours?

[Zyrconium]

Yes to Amrun's "stop talking in riddles?" poll, hopefully soon we'll get back to hunting mafia...(the closest I could find to someone to call scum was Amrun, and there's no way I'm getting a case to stick before said reveal)

@crazypianist: stop lurking please.... you're going to be lynched if you continue like this, and you yourself pointed out that you've no longer got an excuse not to contribute...

[Zyrconium]

But now everyone knows what I know.

which is bad how?

for some reason i felt I hard already heard the phrase 'evil people are after your goodies'
It seemed familiar from somewhere in the topic.

Besides, how does that information help mafia? They probably already knew that they should take goodies from candy animals

I'm guessing the role PM of candy animal says that bad guys will try to steal your goodies?

If so, then I'm an exception

You're actually the only person to have stated it, but this is what you remember, and I beleive it was 70 posts or so after Amrun first stated he had info that suggested(and it is a suggestion, one explicitly made by the mod, but not guaranteed by the same) TS is scum. (I checked for bullshit a bit ago, but found sadly none )

[Zyrconium]

Well, so do you Amrun.... :p

[Zyrconium]

@hazard: what is your current hypothesis on why TS knows your role PM word for word?

@NS: Is that the only "inconsistency" you've found with pasts statements and current facts?

I'll keep my vote at the ready 'til TS responds...

[Zyrconium]

@Stels: Do you think TS is lieing about his abilities?
If not, why would he have to lie about the name and why would the name "zoo visitor" fit the abilities as well as it does?

[Zyrconium]

So we're now agreeing that either TS and Hazard are scum(which is unlikely), Hazard is lieing about his role and abilities(which we can totally check) or they're both town?

[Zyrconium]

Hazard could easilly be lieing and scum, but if he is we can tell via night actions, seriously, look at the role, it's so painfully confirmable.... if he's not I really doubt TS is lieing and scum.... if either(but not both) is claiming their real role but scum then this is a very strange setup, but I think we'll have to consider that at a later date...

[Zyrconium]

EBWOP: I should add, both of them NEED TO use their roles tonight.... seriously! I'd have advice on how to use them, but town tends to bitch when I puppeteer power roles....

[Zyrconium]

vezok, can you pleeeeeeeeeeeeasse stop rolefishing soon?

[Zyrconium]

vote crazypianist

his lurkerdom left him at an irksome null, but I really quite dislike his Hazard vote.

[Zyrconium]

@TS: please stop talking, it'll probably increase your life expectancy....

[Zyrconium]

@NS & Stels: I can't see TS's role as being scum, I can see something similar but noticeably(this is the important word) different, but not his exact role, however TS's actions are screaming scum even to me, hence TS's actions are helping a mislynch, and if he stopped doing them town would be better off...

[Zyrconium]

I feel Hazard is lying. TStown => Hazardscum but I can't say anything about what a Hazard flip means.

You can't say anything?

Unvote Vote: Hazard with a Glove

When he flips scum let's lynch TS mmmkay?

But more relevantly,

Who on the TS wagon thinks Hazard is inno?

[Zyrconium]

Let me try another tactic then, if I'm to fight role PMs, I'll do it with role PMs

Crossreferencing:
1)

My PM says that "evil people" are after my goodies.

2)

Do evil people

want to know

your goodies?

want to know

and supporting candidate:

Yeah, but I'm not sure scum would have known enough to ask that question.

To give vezok's statement some chance of being related to a role PM.

and 3) The VT PM in the OP(to prove that most of us have goodies of a sort).

It can be assumed that the scum want SPECIFIC goodies.....

Why then does the TS's role PM state:

Apparently If i get enough of the goodies I can make something from them, I don't know what yet.

enough

And if this isn't true, why is this statement, above all else the statement he changed?

FUCKING LAWYERED!

[Zyrconium]

Stels, if Hazard and TS have different roles(the most likely case if Hazard happens to be lieing), WE CAN TELL!

The only reason we'll get caught out by them is if they're both scum(which I have stated my reasons for not believing), or if they are the same role with different alignments, which is relatively unlikely, but possible as far as we can tell...

All in all, they could both still be scum(opinion: TS couldn't be), but it's not nearly as plausable, and Hazard's move makes a lot less sense as scum protecting a townie.

[Zyrconium]

@Amrun: When TS flips town it tell you what?(Answer: nothing, btw, it means you still suspect Hazard heavilly of townbuddying, but he still could easilly have been trying to prevent a mislynch with all the info available to him, it'll end in lynching the other one, which is pretty much the exact same situation we're in now, only with less TS and townie X)
How about if Hazard flips town?(Answer: TS is pretty close to confirmed town.... unless they have the same role with different alignments, which is pretty much the exact same argument we're having now...)

@NS: Already done this, unless you've got a real good reason for not reading that I'll be leaving it as is....

[Zyrconium]

Psst, Kalofer is town and awesome...(and TT is being a little too skittish for someone who's rolename is in green)

I think I can live with a TS lynch just so you people start considering ANY FUCKING THING ELSE.

Town needs defib...

If literally noone else decides to hammer I'll take it in like 3 days because I don't believe in townlynches(but NLs are worse(I suspect there are stats to support this, but I ain't seen them) and we're not getting anything but TS)...

[Zyrconium]

EBWOP: actually, Stels last post points his null scumwards too, FUNKY!

[Zyrconium]

Who else thinks the Mafia held of killing just so TS could be wrong about EVERYTHING?("tommorow will be the same as today minus 2 townies")

An unfortunate lack of new information makes

vote crazypianist

one of a few good options...

[Zyrconium]

Considering the last few posts involved so much of them, I'll point out that my top three just now, in order were(at the time of the first NS vote):

1)cpiano
2)Stels
3)NS

So the NS wagon was nice and I was tempted to hop on for wagoning's sake....

But then Stels decided to hop up past #1 to #-1.5 with his last post, hopping on a wagon he plainly doesn't get, for reasons that are absolutely bull(hint, EVERYONE IN THE GAME COULD TELL TS WAS A PR, or at least if they didn't know, the correct action was to wait a day...). Basically, Stels wanted to be on the wagon a whole lot so that tommorow he can point out his role in lynching scum(or NS MIGHT be town, and he's pushing the wagon, but the first one works better)

(Hazard's victim should point out that they're Hazard's victim btw)

[Zyrconium]

EBWOP:

unvote, vote Stels

always forget the little things.

[Zyrconium]

TT, it give us more info this way, but I actually thought about it and the info isn't actually useful to town...

[Zyrconium]

Zyrc's suggestion of this makes him much scummier to me.

This is correct, hence the embarrassed smiley.

HEY EVERYONE. LET'S REVEAL WHO HAS GOODIES AND EXACTLY WHAT.

Great idea. Not.

This is incredible bullshit misrep, it'd reveal one person's goodie-having-ness.

No. NO.

STOP.

This is also an overreaction, mostly cause vezok is wrong, it's perfectly logical for a PR to have goodies, the reason the visitor(s) don't is because they use goodies as part of their role.

The correct reason for Hazard to point out his target is so we can make sure he is a visitor, whichever alignment you feel like painting that visitor.

[Zyrconium]

Amrun, if that person still has goodies.... there's too much to speculate that not knowing won't help town... and I suspect transparency will get rid of most of that speculation... there another reason that I'd like to know how Hazard's role effects town, but pointing that out would be giving advice to scumHazard, if such a beast exists.

[Zyrconium]

EBWOP: I should probably add that I don't think anyone wants "full results", and couldn't find the post with those words in it...

[Zyrconium]

Hazard, if you don't tell us [who you stole from], your chances of survival... aren't too great.

[Zyrconium]

Hazard, I think you managed not to answer a single question posed to you there, bravo....

[Zyrconium]

so we can confirm that he can steal from people....

[Zyrconium]

sure they can, if scum happens to know for a fact that said person can't tell if they've been stolen from....

[Zyrconium]

what does Hazard/town gain from keeping it secret?

[Zyrconium]

mb, what role information? we MIGHT get told if the person has goodies, I don't think that's especially mindblowingly awesome for scum, but I could be wrong, so we could take very simple countermeasures to prevent EVEN THAT from being known, specifically, asking Hazard's victim, when discovered: "Do you BOTH have goodies and NOT have any indicator that those goodies were stolen? Answer with a single "Yes" or "No"."

mb, you randomly decided(I can't actually see any reason you've put forward for this) that Hazard is town, and so obviously this is needless info to you, those of us that still would like reassurances(or even the ones thinking he's scum, who AFAICT should only be reassured of this fact by TS's flip) might find solace in knowing he's not lying about his role.

[Zyrconium]

mb, deflect more.

[Zyrconium]

Someone suggested "full results," which to me indicated who he stole from and what he stole.


I WOULD like to know who he targeted, but I don't want scum to know that that person has goodies, if scum does not already know.

And yes, vezok, is wrong, but I wanted him to stop before it got worse.

This is the closest I could find to what you might be referencing Amrun, you'll see it saying the EXACT OPPOSITE of what you thought we had agreed was best for town. And MB, if you happened to be reading you'd see I've already found scum, I'm just being ignored on the subject.

*silently watches as the town proves that being impolite is the only way to get a real response*

[Zyrconium]

EBWOP: and incase mb actually starts responding to me, I should take the time to point out a funny joke.

mb, deflect more.

I think we are all looking far to into roles. How about you scum-hunt instead?

[Zyrconium]

Oh, has it not already been stated that vezok should be pretty much constantly ignored?

You people certainly seem good at ignoring people, so I'd assume you could pull that one off.

What do you mean?

I said "I would like to know, but I don't want scum to know." That means I don't actually want Hazard to come out with the information.

In hindsight, I can see how that's a little ambiguous, but I definitely said at one that he should reveal only at L-1.

I WOULD like to know who he targeted, but I don't want scum to know that that person has goodies, if scum does not already know.

mb, what role information? we MIGHT get told if the person has goodies, I don't think that's especially mindblowingly awesome for scum, but I could be wrong, so we could take very simple countermeasures to prevent EVEN THAT from being known, specifically, asking Hazard's victim, when discovered: "Do you BOTH have goodies and NOT have any indicator that those goodies were stolen? Answer with a single "Yes" or "No"."

Give a scumlist, Zyrconium.

Considering the last few posts involved so much of them, I'll point out that my top three just now, in order were(at the time of the first NS vote):

1)cpiano
2)Stels
3)NS

So the NS wagon was nice and I was tempted to hop on for wagoning's sake....

But then Stels decided to hop up past #1 to #-1.5 with his last post, hopping on a wagon he plainly doesn't get, for reasons that are absolutely bull(hint, EVERYONE IN THE GAME COULD TELL TS WAS A PR, or at least if they didn't know, the correct action was to wait a day...). Basically, Stels wanted to be on the wagon a whole lot so that tommorow he can point out his role in lynching scum(or NS MIGHT be town, and he's pushing the wagon, but the first one works better)

(Hazard's victim should point out that they're Hazard's victim btw)

For those of us who don't like to have to rearrange lists using what we have for heads, that's:

-1.5)Stels
2)cpiano
3)NS

There are more, but they aren't especially solid...

Now that I've restated that which was already obvious to anyone with a brain, can somebody else perhaps scumhunt?

(DISCLAIMER: Hostility in this post was directed at mb for his incredible bullshit in his last few posts, and Amrun and TT for completely ignoring my posts, if you're not part of this list... I probably hate you for lurking anyway

(rereads CP's post)

@CP: Wait, I made a case on mb?

[Zyrconium]

But if Hazard is town, we confirm to scum a town member with candy.

No we don't.

This could confirm a person as a Candy Animal

No it couldn't.
I.... ragequit. until you all start listening to what I'm saying all I'm gonna do is requote the bits you're ignoring OK?

[Zyrconium]

@mod: prod Stels and Kalo for us please.

@NS: elaborate... your case is currently weaker than a number of cases, including the case against you.

[Zyrconium]

So, Amrun, stance... 24 hours to give and explain.

@Mothras: Mind restating/updating your case on Hazard for me? Too much been said of late for me to be arsed putting it all together. Bonus points for conciseness.

@Kalo: we confirm whether Hazard is visitor... and the

MA JO RI TY

of the case against him is how he hopped onto TS's claim and then helped TS flip town(by helping lynch him)

[Zyrconium]

On who happens to be scum.... just a little minor thingy.

[Zyrconium]

@Kalo: how incredibly unimaginative of you to assume lynching Hoppster will tell you anything?

How about you try lynching scum?(I'm assuming you're not especially confident of Hopp being scum, if you are, please correct this assumption, preferably add logic too)

[Zyrconium]

I am not told what candy I get, and I'm not even sure if I'm told if I got candy or not. The candy animal might be told either.

Unvote
Vote Nobody Special

That wagon hop isn't town based, because if he'd bothered to go read Hazard's post he'd have realised that Hazard stated he didn't know what candy he got(this is probably true, but it's not neccessarily true) while STRONGLY IMPLYING he had no evidence to discern whether he's told IF(not "WHAT" but "IF") he has stolen any candy at all. There's no contradiction, there IS evidence that at the time you're saying he contradicted himself he know what he was planning to claim and there IS evidence you're not really trying to scumhunt, so much as hide behind half-assed "rules" of I can't be accused for calling someone scum when they do X.

Stels is still scum, CP is still useless and annoying, and probably scum, but fairly unreadable.

[Zyrconium]

If the scum in this game don't have wacky powerroles, I'll eat my figurative shoe.... or possibly the Fedora I was planning on lieing about having(Egads NS, don't lynch me for that!).

That said, we should all pretend that none of this happened(for the sake of finding scum) and get back to scumhunting.... or in some people's cases, START SCUMHUNTING AMRUN!

or at least start explaining it to town.

P-Edit:Amrun, there's no reason for that to be in the slightest obvious, but I'd still be surprised if there was more than 1 scum zoo visitor... not THAT surprised any more though. This speculation however won't find scum...

[Zyrconium]

You want a scumlist? You're on top of it.

And the rest of it?

[Zyrconium]

@TT: how scummy do you think NS is?

[Zyrconium]

I unvoted you in that post so as to vote NS who just barely managed to outscum you,,, but your bullshit misrep is noted.

[Zyrconium]

@TT: BULLSHIT!

now gimmie a sec to elaborate.

[Zyrconium]

@CP: added factors convincing me that I'm correct about Zyrconium include his want to lynch Hazard in the same way he wanted to lynch TS. Trying to take out two PR's? Yeah, no thanks.

After TS's claim

I WAS THE MAJOR PROPONENT OF NOT LYNCHING TS.

I ceded exactly 1 point about TS, which was that lynching TS was better than NL, because NL is the absolute worst thing for town to do D1.

His hop onto Nobody Special is bad because its hopping onto someone who was having the same issues with Hazard as he was. Like, "hey, I've changed my opinion. You haven't. Go die."

I'll have to research this point myself, but from what I recall, NS's issue with Hazard was “LOLOLOL LAL”. This would have been mostly acceptable if he had happened to be correct in that matter.

I also do not like the fact that he has done absolutely nothing to defend himself against those who are accusing him (no response to my case, asking for OTHER scum reads instead of asking for the reasons for Amruns vote).
He also seems to have this terrible habit of telling people to scum-hunt when he isn't doing much himself.

The first point(about me not defending myself) is accurate, because the second point(about me not scumhunting) is bullshit.

Yeah, I realized I have a lot of lurky town. I think this is partly because the active players that were on my town list at the end of D1 (Amrun, Hoppster) have made me skeptical. Odds are that one of my town-reads is wrong, but I feel that despite being lurkers, contributions have been pro-town. I like mb53-town but he's V/LA. I also have a strong town read on Crazypianist based on his D1 actions.

mb isn't lurking, he just hasn't been spam posting(something I can't exactly say for myself.)
Which actions in specific of CP's are you refering to?

Whats the real coincidence is how Zyrconium's scum-reads have a place on my town.

Do you have Stels and NS among your townreads?

[Zyrconium]

Yes, this is exactly what I'm saying NS.... at no point did I mention Hazard's name, and I mentioned TS like 20 different times in that 1 sentance. It's also apparent that TS's scummyness is much more relevant to discussion today, I mean it's not like we know his alignment or anything...

The above may be sarcasm, I'm 10% sure you can tell, that's why I added this sentence, to congratulate you on your awesome sarcasm-finding skills.

tl;dr: No, I'm saying you are incorrect in saying Hazard lied.

--

@TT: TS claimed something unique, and town sounding, Hazard claimed "me2" Even then, Hazard's claim wasn't that scummy, his pursuit of TS right after it was more scummy, but he's somewhat redeemed himself from that.

@cp: Bluh meta. Let's try this. (also: the game that just ended today that had vezok thinking he could get away with claiming not to have noticed he was mason because his past performances have portrayed him as that stupid.... but that one was a lie(vezok's lie, in that game))

Specifically, I wish for this meta to prove that vp sometimes lacks forethought, not that we should ignore all of his actions as blanket VI, because so far he's not actually all that scummy this game.

[Zyrconium]

^ Are you SURE about that town-read TT?(real question: Do you see why that post should make you question it?)

[Zyrconium]

onvote, vote Stels

The wagon speed got me a little antsy, but Stels last post makes it obviouw, he's devolving, heading to explode, an easy target at the same time as being kinda dangerous for a scumbuddy to keep...

VP's vote come in #1 for opportunism, with Hopp and cp's coming slightly second. How scummy these are is of course related to his alignment, which I think will be a wonderful brownie shaped treat full of info, in and of itself.

[Zyrconium]

Cue 48 hours of whole playerlist lurking. :p

[Zyrconium]

I'll humour vezok today:

vezok, wagon hasn't stalled, there's 2 hammer votes waiting for Stels to claim, or for town to get bored....

[Zyrconium]

At least the reveal should be relatively quick, after all, Charlie has had 3 days to prepare... :p

[Zyrconium]

Scummiest person + scummy role = not scum, sadface.

Summary as best I can(dropping everything at 1 vote for less spammyness.):

Late RVS

Vote count 1

Twistedspoon (3) - Hoppster, Zyrconium, Hazard with a Glove
Zyrconium (3) - Stels, ToastyToast, mb53
Kalofer (2) - Morthas, crazypianist1116
Amrun (2) - Nobody Special, vezokpiraka

After TS Defends

Vote count 2

Twistedspoon (6) - Hoppster, Zyrconium, Hazard with a Glove, Morthas, vezokpiraka, Kalofer
Zyrconium (3) - Stels, ToastyToast, mb53

After TS claims

Vote count 3

Zyrconium (4) - Stels, ToastyToast, mb53, Twistedspoon
Twistedspoon (2) - Hoppster, Hazard with a Glove

<snip>

I believe this was the first count after Amrun claimed "bad people want our goodies", this was badly phrased... and badly interpreted.

Vote count 10

Twistedspoon (5) - Amrun, Nobody Special, Hazard with a Glove, Hoppster, vezokpiraka
Zyrconium (3) - Stels, mb53, ToastyToast
Hazard with a Glove (2) - crazypianist1116, Morthas

<snip>

And 4 days later:

Vote count 13

Twistedspoon (7) - Amrun, Nobody Special, Hazard with a Glove, Hoppster, vezokpiraka, ToastyToast, Kalofer
Hazard with a Glove (3) - crazypianist1116, Morthas, Stels

Twistedspoon, Zoo Visitor, lynched Day 1

No one was killed N1

Beyond that there was a lot of bickering and wagons going every which way(by which I mean a 3-4 way tie that stagnated for like 10 days)

Vote Count 16

Hazard With a Glove (3) - Morthas, crazypianist1116, Stels
Nobody Special (2) - mb53, Kalofer
Morthas (2) - vezokpiraka, Hazard With a Glove

Vote Count 17

Hazard With a Glove (4) - Morthas, crazypianist1116, Stels, Nobody Special
Nobody Special (3) - mb53, Zyrconium, Kalofer
Morthas (2) - vezokpiraka, Hazard With a Glove
Zyrconium (2) - ToastyToast, Amrun

And then 3 days after the 1st vote on Stels(since when I unvoted him), Stels was dead.

Nobody Special is being replaced as per his request.
crazypianist1116 has picked up his prod.

Vote Count 22

Stels (7) - Hoppster, crazypianist1116, Amrun, ToastyToast, vezokpiraka, Zyrconium, Kalofer
Hazard With a Glove (2) - Morthas, Nobody Special
...
crazypianist1116 (1) - Stels

Stels, Muscial Monkey (Vanilla Candy Animal) in posession of

No Goodies,

lynched Day 2

Fuck, wall post.... this is why I was so tempted to ignore VV's call for summaries.

[Zyrconium]

I was told nothing of this thievery.

Hazard's case on Hoppster is bull, he didn't really need to choose Hopp(although it'd probably have helped), but Hopp wanted the visitor's on him to disprove the "he has no goodies => scum" logic Kalo stated before Hopp claimed, and that's quite reasonable for town. Also, I really doubt zoo visitors are that important to town, missing 1 day of goodies wouldn't kill them.

Hazard's stating at as random rubs me wrong too, but I'

my vauge attempts at VCA+ town reads(never really done it myself before, so if there's a specific way to do it that's less probable guesswork, tell me) suggest 1 of {crazypianist}+1 of {NS(VV now)/Hazard}+1 of {TT, Hoppster, vezok}

specifically assuming 2 on TS, 1 on Hazard Day1 and 2 on Stels, 1 off, Day 2.... also see cp pushing Hazard and TS at the same time end of day 1, while discounting the possibility of them both being scum.

basically, I think cp is scum, and I totally would guess at VV Hoppster team if one of them flips scum... And Mothras being off both times might mean something if he wasn't off on Hazard each time, know what that means, he thinks Hazard is scum....

[Zyrconium]

EBWOP:

vote crazypianist

again with the missing the little things....

P.S. I think VV's wall of setup speculation makes one thing clear(probably), LyLO is sooner than we think it is.

[Zyrconium]

my vauge attempts at VCA+ town reads(never really done it myself before, so if there's a specific way to do it that's less probable guesswork, tell me) suggest 1 of {crazypianist}+1 of {NS(VV now)/Hazard}+1 of {TT, Hoppster, vezok}

specifically assuming 2 on TS, 1 on Hazard Day1 and 2 on Stels, 1 off, Day 2.... also see cp pushing Hazard and TS at the same time end of day 1, while discounting the possibility of them both being scum.

This means I think(based on VCA, and exclusion of town reads)
that 1 person of {crazypianist} is scum
that 1 person of {VV OR Hazard} is scum
and that one person of {TT OR Hoppster OR vezok} is scum.

I'll got to making a case on CP. and explaining the VCA sometime soon, it's a chunk of effort I've been putting off.

---(1 day gap in writing, keep setting to much in the way of goals for single posts)

What part of Vas' wall/setup speculation addresses lylo? I've skimmed it a few times, Ctrl + F'd 'lylo', and neither have had any luck.

Which is why Zyrconium needs to die. What is the current view on Zyrc?

And this here is why VV needs to die.

Seriously, someone other than VV who's hopping on my wagon(read:amrun) explain why VV thinks I'm scum.... he's so far pointed out that my conclusions aren't logical, and I'll disprove that in just a sec, but he's got fuck all to say that my conclusions are scummy, and has yet to finish reading the game and is STILL leading a bandwagon on me?

(this is a little bit defensive, but baseless fucktardery get's on my nerves, it's a character flaw, I'll admit, especially on the internet.)

P.S. actually, think I'm reading this wrong, VV is scum because this directly contradicts where he stated:

But his "Vas is probably right about this one very specific thing he mentioned in a big wall about lots of things" reaction is very off.

explain to me VV, why the fuck that statement is there if you never even said the thing I'm obviously leaping to conclusions about in the first place?

---

Now to explain why VV is wrong, as well as full of shit:

This post is me trying really hard not to claim having both goodies, and the same line as Amrun in my PM, while at the same time trying really fucking hard to point out that Amrun totally misquoted that line, missing out the part where it states not to tell anyone our goodies, so that the bad people don't get them, this strongly suggests(actually, of the 5 people we know about, only 40% have goodies, so it's not so strong as I thought back then) that "bad people want SPECIFIC goodies".

Combine this with the lack of a N1 kill, and the possibility of both "steal, then have die a day later" and "non-standard scum wincon" mechanics and we have the scum having stolen twice already, one more person than they've killed, THIS MAKES LYLO CLOSER THAN EXPECTED, assuming the game is balanced to have town having the same number of days to find scum as a standard game.

to be fair, that is like 3 probably's away from certain, but I don't think having the town be slightly more cautions of a perfectly plausible thing is that bad an idea.

[Zyrconium]

EBWOP: the part where it states: "not to tell anyone our goodies, [so that the bad people don't get them]"

emphasis so that I don't have to deal with stupid people pointing out that I forgot brackets therefor must not have read Amrun's post correctly.

[Zyrconium]

Zyrconium, what are you implying? Yeah, I rephrased the role PM, so I wouldn't get modkilled.

Badly. I'm tempted to leave my answer as that, because Amrun is being overly defensive and needs to learn not to be, but specifically, I'm explaining that you quoted it badly so as to explain what a better quote(replace where I say quote with paraphrase if you want) would be, so as to explain my thought process to town....

[Zyrconium]

A is awesome, C is probably mostly right, D is wrong(there's enough evidence of Hazard's thought patterns to more or less disprove it, and no scum motivation for his actions if true).

the rest should probably be covered by Hazard alone.

[Zyrconium]

4. because you wanted me to waste my PR
5. Because you are scum who would benefit one way or another from me not using it.

Hazard, you're saying, "You're scum because you wanted me to waste my PR because you're scum because you wanted me to waste my PR because you're scum because you wanted me to waste my PR because you're scum...."

If you work under the assumption that he's town, you can come up with equally convincing logic, therefore your argument is null.

Hopp, what he said, plus the fact that he stated the same reason [that he just stated] as why he choose to steal from me, plus the fact that this assumes he knew Kalo's role, and didn't feel like getting candy that night, which would be covered by the "no scum motivation" thingy(that is, there's no reason for scum to take this action if all of you assumptions are correct, therefor, they can't all be correct and Hazard be scum, and Hazard being stubbornly denying the truth and town is also unlikely, so your assumptions must be wrong).

@TT:http://onlineslangdictionary.com/defini ... 's)+nerves, was I really saying I wasn't frustrated? that said, you're pathetic misrepping of my statement is also funny.... because you seem to assume I admitted to being wrong somewhere....

On the second part, it's me not getting how he managed to change his accusation from: "he's focusing on one part for reasons I can't see town having" to "he's making shit up about my post" without so much as acknowledging that his accusation had changed.

[Zyrconium]

TT, would you have rathered deleted the first part after typing it then?

it's there because that's the order in which I thought it, and because I like transparency of process, where it doesn't get in the way of clarity of results(which it apparently has here).

not that the first part of my post is wrong, it's 100% accurate, and it proves VV as wrong, it just isn't why I thought he was scum(I'll admit to using my gut a little here, and working out why my gut said he was scum afterwards)

[Zyrconium]

@Morthas: I think you just said, "fuck it, I'm bored and he's probably scum: vote Hazard"

Because if you read over you post in more detail, you'll not you decided you're not sure if Hazard is scum, but you do have a scumread on him. and that you like Hoppster's case, despite it not convincing you and Hoppster probably being scum"....

I'll shift my vote if there is a reason to do so, so far, there's not much interesting case-wise about, and cp is still fairly scum... so is VV, but we seem to have forgotten about him... mostly cause he's string flaking.(as in, I might move my vote when we get a second replacement for this slot).

[Zyrconium]

Oh hey prodded again. I thought I had till this morning, since it hasn't been 3 days since day 3 started.

Hazard with a Glove - Leaning scum
mb53 - Leaning scum
Zyrconium - Town
Hoppster - Leaning Town
Amrun - Town
vezokpiraka - Null
VasudeVa - Not enough info
Morthas - Leaning Town
ToastyToast - Leaning scum

Hoppster's case is good. Granted, he's doing that "Hey everyone look, there's obvscum here" thing, but I'm buying it. It could be motivated by him being mad at hazard not choosing him, but I don't think that's the case.
Mb's vote looks like a lurker taking a stance on a wagon so it looks like he's doing something when he really isn't...
Zyrc looks like he's trying to help town, but I'm not exactly sure how he ended up with a vote on me based on votecounts alone. Assumptions based on how many scum are on a wagon can lead you down a path to tunneling.
Toasty is more of a gut read. I'm not as confident with this one.


Morthas, you feel like you can actually get an answer out of vezok?

List of reads 6 days ago from CP, now he has a couple of days to make a REALLY good case on VP or he should die, can we agree on this?

[Zyrconium]

him and Amrun trying to lynch him so he's not there during lylo=bad reason. We lynch someone if we are sure they're scum. Because lynching scum prevents lylo.

Bullshit misrep asshole. Am I going to have to start using shorthand for when you misrep me, town?

Hint: go fucking read my post and say that again?

As for "only pushing easy lynches", I think that's also painfully wrong, but it's something that you could forseeably interpret from the parts where I tended to START bandwagons that did well.... it you were trying to see it(hint: I'm pointing out that you're getting some confirmation bias here, try stepping back and rereading from a state of mind where you're not trying to prove that I'm scum).

[Zyrconium]

TT: in the post I quoted, cp states that he doesn't think vezok is scum, in fact he had 3 scum read, and he decided to vote for vezok, a null person being voted for SOLELY by one of his scum-reads.

I asked cp to give me a reason why town would do that, because DAMN if it's hard for me to think of one. the time limit is because I'm getting impatient with the game as whole, not specifically because of cp, and because I wanted some pressure so he couldn't just lurk into us getting distracted(which wouldn't even get noticed normally in a game this lurky).

[Zyrconium]

Um, MB, I'm not lurking, you can comment on all the hillariously scummy activities I've taken part in.... just to bide the time of course, cause it's obvious to so many of you that I'm scum.

[Zyrconium]

Because such a rediculous amount has happened since I last posted, I'll go so far as to make a gigantic catchup wall post:

"Hi Pine."

Phew, lotsa effort there....

[Zyrconium]

I think mb53 is gonna have to claim.

Also, I'm awesome, but I'll have to wait to prove that.

[Zyrconium]

Let me rephrase:

mb53 CLAIM NOW!

[Zyrconium]

So, I think I'll go for a mostly claim too... I'm fairly certain goodies are linked to Mafia wincon or powers, so unless we have concensus as to them being a good thing to claim, I'll hold off on that.

Role name: <related to goodies> crow

I love the capability to fly, and am allowed to choose in the pre-game, whether I want to be a watcher or tracker at which point I'd get an updated role PM.(both roles were strictly specified as town, if it matters)

Upon choosing watcher(I think I'm better at pre-empting mafia than I am at finding them, as was my thought process at the time, and is likely proven by my previous read of MB):

I was given a PM, with the same role name, stating again how much the capability of flying is good, and that I like to sit in trees and stare down town.(followed by an explanation of generic watcher mechanics)

N1:
Target: Amrun(town as all hell)
Result: Noone visited

N2:
Target: Hoppster(claimed PR who was quite obviously not going invuln N2, seriously)
Result: Noone visited

N3:
Target: Amrun(Hopp was invul again, and he's still the most townie, plus town agrees with me that he's townie now, so maf probs do too)
Result: mb53 visited.

Supporting evidence: My stoopid outburst Day 1 when I thought only power-roles knew bad guys were after goodies(and I'll restate, this was retarded, in concept and execution)
General lack of going stuff til Hazard stated that he hadn't visited Hopp N2(because he really should have)

And I'm awesome because my targets so far this game have ALL been commuters, and I haven't missed once.

[Zyrconium]

EBWOP:

vote mb53

[Zyrconium]

If someone can come up with a reason the Mafia wouldn't have targeted Amrun last night(and I'd assume he was unkillable the night before, so poisoner doesn't work), then I'll bother considering mb's claim.

[Zyrconium]

Votes pushing us toward lynch prior to that will be treated as scumclaims. Hoppster and I have this with intent-to-hammer, so an added vote will be seen as giving mb a chance to self-hammer, end discussion, and deprive Town of insights.

@TT: did you miss where it was pointed out how REDICULOUSLY pro-mafia the action you just took was, to a better degree, what possible pro-town reason is there for rushing along a lynch that was so obviously going to happen?

You sir have raised many an eyebrow, Quite possibly a big enough eyebrow to get you killed.

Unvote

MB still needs to die first... and Pine still needs to comment before that.

[Zyrconium]

EBWOP: And I'll point out that through my last post I was wondering why MB didn't hammer, as far as I can see, the only acceptable answer is WIFOM-reasons.

[Zyrconium]

mb, what do you think the likelyhood of you being lynched today is?

[Zyrconium]

Upon trying really hard to take issue with TT, I've only got one query:

Why TT, are you voting for mb(who as far as I can tell, you expect to be 3rd party(feel free to correct)), over me or Mothras(who you've stated openly you think are scum)?

Implied question: "Which alignment do you think mb is?"

[Zyrconium]

@Pine and Mothras, I already unvoted for that reason, he's now at L-3.

[Zyrconium]

vote mb53

To hear what I beleive is a nice crunching sound.

[Zyrconium]

Now that WAS an unexpected combination of events....

I can't really see a reason for there to be no kill, intentional or otherwise, people have a plan(we're not to far from the stage of massclaim methinks, enough of the important people are gone, and my reads ain't doing so well(mb was, until N3 in my "fairly town" pile, but I wanna know what happened at night first, at least.

[Zyrconium]

Pine, actually, you'll be telling us sooner than that, it's 3rd on my list of things to have explained(it was second until Hoppster got all uppity).

#1 is the lack of death last night.
#2 is Hoppster claiming(like, all the way).

we can skip to #2 if Pine and Hoppster state that they have nothing to do with #1

(you crazy impatient tards are ruining my subtlety here btw)

[Zyrconium]

Ok, here's a funky question: Pine: does your ability have a use that could conceivably benefit mafia?(I had a much more conceited way of asking this, btw, enjoy that I proofread for retardedness in my posts)

[Zyrconium]

Hrmm, I'll stick a vote on Hoppster if I get really bored.... but I'd prefer Hazard or Morthas(Hazard a lot more)...

@Pine: mind looking over mb's posts pertaining to Hoppster and telling me what you see?

[Zyrconium]

@Pine: mind looking over mb's posts pertaining to Hoppster and telling me what you see?

That a "yes" Pine?

[Zyrconium]

FUCK.
THIS.
SHIT.

vote Hoppster

Told you I'd get bored.... also talked way to much about Homestuck.

[Zyrconium]

I announced myself as an even-night commuter hoping the Mafia would believe me and target me on N5.

Charlie, did the N1 no-kill result from the Mafia targeting my predecessor?

Called it Pine, called if from your initial claim, and I called it so hard I thought the mafia would call it too.

And I'd give scum MVP to mb, never would have called him scum without the watcher result....

Pine pulled a strong townread out of NS and VV's asses which is also quite impressive.