Mini 1194: Reverse Mafia [Game Over]

[kiwieagle]

Shoot.

I didn't know it had started.

Read the thread already.

Thoughts:
If Parama is scum we are screwed.
If not:
This will most probably end in town win

I think bobsnox is scum due to -> mad that no1 votes him (Possibly his scumbuddies aswell)
If you read his posts: "Why is my meta bad?" etc. etc.

VOTE: Param

[kiwieagle]

Parama I would like you to note in the game we played and the game you modded I was tunneled and mislynched by scum. I don't think you've seen enough to say I'm not trustworthy as town. More like I'm an easy target for scum.

And you genuinely thought I was the SK, so you obviously can't nail my alignment that easily.

Oh well

Cool story bro.

[kiwieagle]

(Toast, Bub, Pack) are town

1 of (Kiwi/Bob) probably is scum.

Not getting town or scum from SC. Really my read on Parama was neutral but we will see how it goes.

Is it because I was trying to scum hunt?

[kiwieagle]

Nah, you both had ugly votes on the Parama wagon.

They were as "ugly" as everyone else's vote?

[kiwieagle]

Nah, you both had ugly votes on the Parama wagon.

Admittance and Deflection.

Ftfy

Admittance?
Hence the quote marks.
Deflection?
I was stating a fact.
What makes mine worse then the rest?

[kiwieagle]

VOTE: StrangerCoug

I like how he's thinking.

Bud is better today.

With both Parama and SC being possible buddies, bud is better.

Oh and SC I dont mind not getting revived, im not a PR.

[kiwieagle]

OK, time to elaborate on my post from last night.

I don't like kiwieagle's response to Slaxx when the latter said the former was probably scum. Instead of probing why Slaxx thought this, kiwieagle plays the "woe is me" card, assumes Slaxx is after him for trying to scumhunt, and then when an actual reason from Slaxx is given he tries to spread the blame on others.


I was going to ask AntB on what he was holding off at post #125 (I was worried he was going to exempt himself from contributing), but post #135 answers that question.

I like Packbat's current attempts to stir up activity, so I'm going to VOTE: Packbat for right now. If I get another strong town read, I'll take that into consideration.

Oh and just for the sake of defense,

1. He never said I was probably scum
2. "woe is me" card? I was trying to find out why my vote was "ugly"
3. Everyone voted Parama, just that I was one of the final ones because I didnt know the thread had started. I NEVER tried to spread the blame on others, I only asked "what makes my vote any uglier?"

[kiwieagle]

1. He never said I was probably scum

1 of (Kiwi/Bob) probably is scum.

Sorry, but unless your point is that he is not singling you out, mine stands. Even so, he still has you as a suspect and you react badly.

He didn't say why, so at that point I asked him what made him think that

2. "woe is me" card? I was trying to find out why my vote was "ugly"

Explain #118 then.

See above :l

3. Everyone voted Parama, just that I was one of the final ones because I didnt know the thread had started. I NEVER tried to spread the blame on others, I only asked "what makes my vote any uglier?"

There's a difference between "my vote is as ugly as anybody else's" and "why is my vote uglier than everybody else's?", I'm afraid.

Hence the quote marks.
I wasnt finding my vote any different than any other.
even when his poor explanation which was:

You took no stance on Parama, just said 'if he is town we win if he is scum we lose'

Its fine for an earlier vote but getting that close to the end of a wagon...ew. Same with Bob. At least Toasty said he thought parama was town.

Oh and, I took no stance because even if I did, would it have made a difference on whether Para was chosen or not?
And it was my first post, as I had not known it started.

[kiwieagle]

Also: what crypto has done is attack wredfar in the most unconvincing way possible. Assuming they were both scum, that would be textbook distancing.

The way crypto's posting will make it unlikely that he gets revived soon. Mafia want to get revived ASAP.
I don't see how his posting reads as anything other than town.
Remember that distancing doesn't mean crap in a game where you can't lynch scum. Hell, we can't flip them without a vig. We only get townflips if vigless, and scum control most of those. What good is distancing, then?

crypto's arbitrary attack on him is

clearly scummy

the last thing you'd expect scum to do this early in the game.

fixed

Packbat is still the person I'm most in favor in reviving.

bad

VOTE: StrangerCoug

I like how he's thinking.

nope.gif

ftfy

With both Parama and SC being possible buddies, bud is better.

If I was drinking water, I would've spit it out at this point.
YOU VOTED ME. IF WE WERE POSSIBLE BUDDIES WHO WERE BOTH PRIME CANDIDATES FOR REVIVAL EARLY IN THE GAME, WHY DID YOU VOTE ONE OF US?
HELL, IF YOU THINK ME AND SC COULD BE BUDDIES, THAT MEANS YOU THINK I COULD BE SCUM. AND YOU VOTED ME ANYWAYS.
KIWISCUM IS TOAST. TOASTY TOAST. BLACK, BURNT, DISGUSTING TOAST. BLACK LIKE THE MAFIA.
also kiwi
never respond inside a quote ever again.
that is the worst possible way to post. worse than quote stripes. worse than huge walls.
worse than what these last couple of posts of mine have been.

You are the first person to critque the way I post.
And I like to post like this tbh.

OH AND MAYBE IF I CAPSLOCK YOU WILL UNDERSTAND ME BETTER

KEY WORD = POSSIBLE.

PAGE 1 YOU BOTH WERE LIKE, REVIVE ME PLOX REVIVE ME PLOX.
ITS A POSSIBILITY.
BEING COMPETENT DOESNT MAKE YOU TOWN.

That's L-2 on me - unless we really start running into deadline issues, I want to meet wredfar's replacement before we go on to Day 1. Voting behavior is much more revealing than voteless behavior.

Now you're acting like you've already been revived. Seriously, can't get more obvious.

slaxxxxxx I don't think SC is scum, at least not with kiwi, and kiwi is more likely to be scum than SC is.
I still think the vote on crypto is best.
Packbat is 100% confirmed scum though, people should get away from everything he represents.

[kiwieagle]

I'm holding off until wredfar has contributed before continuing.

Actually, this is a game where lurkers don't really hurt as much. We don't revive them, and there's a great chance for reviving someone else besides.

What makes mine worse then the rest?

Answer this first:
What makes yours better than any of the others? How is it better than even one of the other votes?
BTW, I am positive there were at least 2 scum on my wagon. It was easy as hell to jump on inconspicuously.

It was my first post.
And I was stating a probability.

Wredfar is mafia.

vote: crypto

I haven't a clue if you're right or not, but you're town. I vote town.

Wredfar is mafia.

Reason?

Why do you care? Right now we need to be townhunting first and scumhunting second.

He's town because of his first post honestly. Even though he misrepped people, I think the post speaks for itself.

Even if it speaks for itself... what is it saying, then? "It speaks for itself" is another way of saying "I have no idea why it's town but if someone else analyzes it they can probably find something I didn't."

VOTE: Bub Bidderskins

...and at present I am specifically looking for more posting from crypto, Pomegranate, and wredfar before we start narrowing the field to a single revival candidate.

If you don't want to narrow the field to a single revival candidate yet, why are you voting? Your post is saying: "This is who I think should be our single revival candidate, but we shouldn't pick a single revival candidate yet."

@bobsknox
uh... he's already been revived. Your post is null.

Yeah, guess it's a good thing I'm scum

My vote will probably go on to packbat currently (still waiting for wredfar to post before voting.)

Why will your vote go on packbat? You haven't said anything about him.

At first I was surprised that Bub was getting votes, then I realized that he's actually acting more helpful than usual. Maybe I will. But I still like SC. Bleh.

Why do you like SC? This is different from your previous reason for voting him.

I was going to ask AntB on what he was holding off at post #125 (I was worried he was going to exempt himself from contributing), but post #135 answers that question.

And leaves many more questions unanswered.

I like Packbat's current attempts to stir up activity, so I'm going to VOTE: Packbat for right now. If I get another strong town read, I'll take that into consideration.

Examples?

I have too many fucking town reads and I'm loath to commit to any of them at the moment. Leaning toward voting Bub.

These town reads would be?...

Waiting for Wred before I place my vote...

*********************

I want to call Pom scum so bad but I too am just getting LazyTown off of her. Right now there is scum in (crypto/wred), (bob/kiwi), and someone else I have overlooked. Maybe SC or Awesoma.

First batch:
To be decided. crypto is town. wred may or may not be town.
Second batch:
kiwi's scum if anyone.
Third batch:
Feeling Awesoma more than SC, though I'm not sure about SC either way, mainly because I haven't been here to remember anything <_<

Okay, reread both SC and Bub, and although SC is a good scumhunter, he's kinda neutral. And Bub was more helpful/participatory than I expected, which is a mildly happy surprise. They're both good, but for the moment I think I'll go with Bub.

VOTE: Bub.

Okay, you realized your mistake before I even pointed it out.
Pome's town, guys.

Also, wred

or

crypto can be scum, but not wred

and

crypto. Crypto's totally unbacked accusastion against wred makes sure of that.

That's a bit of a WIFOM situation, actually - it would be incredibly brazen, with a significant risk of backfire, but I could imagine scum pulling that as a gambit.

Yay, let's throw in random doubt based on WIFOM.
There is no point to Packbat's post except to cause confusion. It could be true, or it might not be. I'm banking on the latter. Packbat's post only exists to try and promote the former. Causing confusion. Since the latter is more likely. He's just trying to make the possibility exist, even though it probably shouldn't.
DONUT LAKE.

Pack's totally scum. Stop voting him, people. This is like the 2nd or 3rd time he's made a post that looks scummy to me. My scumdar is usually right on these things. Seriously, drop the Packbat votes.

[kiwieagle]

hmmm....


Next time I quote, I will try to write longer.
A bit waste of space.


@slaxx
Im indifferent.
You are the one making the choice, do what you think is correct.
Toasty has played a bit townish.

though wtf was the point of point of post #189.

[kiwieagle]

1st kiwi post:
dodging the point.
I am not reading kiwi's posts anymore if he does not start posting outside of quotes. I encourage the rest of the players to do the same.
2nd kiwi post:
Compare your vote to what you feel is the worst vote, and tell me why yours is better. Okay?

Why did I vote you?
You seem to have played mafia alot/ know how to scumhunt.
If your town you could be a good addition.

--

Your 2nd point:
Sigh.
Why are you deflecting my question?

[kiwieagle]

(Incidentally, does anyone else notice how quickly the votes fled from Packbat the moment Parama expressed suspicion? I would not be surprised if ToastyToast, StrangerCoug or both were scum seeking towncred, even if I weren't suspicious of SC already.)

Your missing the fact that I started the wagon/town discussion on you. There was enough suspicion on you to warrant an unvote. Why? because I acknowledge that I can miss something that another obvtown player sees.

Why is Parama obvtown?

[kiwieagle]

I am not reading kiwi's posts anymore if he does not start posting outside of quotes. I encourage the rest of the players to do the same.

You may share my personal preference, but the fact that someone does not do things the way you want him to does not per se warrant ignoring him.

Ignoring scum who's caught is never a bad idea <_<
And frankly I don't give a damn.

I will stop quoting, if your gonna take it so personal.


And toast:

BEING COMPETENT ISNT OBV TOWN.


and I dislike how Parama plays.


He thinks he is obvtown and whatever he does, everyone must follow.
And he thinks whoever goes against him is scum.

[kiwieagle]

Dear Slaxx,

I've been busy-- I just started a summer job that's seven hours a day five days a week. But I will say that Kiwi is bothering me a bit, especially in his conflict with Parama. Parama is town because he's acting like a townie and scumhunting and all that fun stuff, in addition to the fact that this is always how he acts as town. Kiwi seems to be much more focused on discrediting Parama, IIRC. Definitely dislike that.

Is discrediting as a whole bad to you?
or discrediting Parama?

[kiwieagle]

Stop hiding the fact you suck

a bit harsh?

As long as he explains to me why he said wredfar is scum, im fine.

[kiwieagle]

Sorry for my absence.

Me prefering Packbat over Bub is just by gut. I am aware that is not a good argument, but I would revive any of these, but I have this warm, cosy feeling that Pack is town.

@TT: what do you mean with "Parama came of as genuine"? As far as I know, we are only sure about someone's alignment when that person dies.

Anyway, as I said, he is already revived, so I should leave this discussion to D1.

@AntB: saying that "I will do nothing until [something happens] doesn't delay the game. You are putting yourself asside.

We should be aware that, if we revive two scumbuddies, it'a game over. My read on this game so far is that, if Parama was scum, the most likely person to be his partner would be SC. That's why I won't revive him today, despite the existence of even scummier people.
Reviving SC is, in my opinion, the riskiest thing we could possibilly do today.

Also SC's vote on kiwi and his justification on #245. He appears to be informed about the information that was given to mafia, and that worries me.

Also kiwi didn't say a word about SC's vote.

I think I answered it all.

Vote: Packbat

Packbat didnt say a word about yours?

Whats the difference <-- ??

[kiwieagle]

Vote: Packbat

[kiwieagle]

I thought slaxx was gonna revive toasty.

[kiwieagle]

Bobsnox is more of a mafia role, than a town role.

Atleast thats what I would give mafia if I were mod.


So I dont like bobsnox's claim.

(Yes this is very WIFOM)

[kiwieagle]

Im fine with everyone but bobsnox tbh.

Also:
I have no idea why slaxx would revive crypto.
he was playing bad

[kiwieagle]

I've been suggesting my delayed revival from the beginning of the game:

I need to be alive in the near future but not right away.

You guys are trying really hard to keep me in limbo. Oh well.

kiwi is def scum and I would've killed him for sure.

So had we revived you and you killed me, you do realize that town would of failed the possibility of reviving all town players because im "purged"?
and then mafia would push for your mislynch (if your town) and you would of just completely fucked up the game for town (unless your mafia which is what you should do)?

Sigh.


Also your calling me mafia for calling your ability a bad one?

[kiwieagle]

Kiwi - your play has been scummy from the start. The answer to your last question is obviously, "No," but you're too interested in painting instead of thinking.

so your calling me scummy for calling you scummy?

[kiwieagle]

Kiwi - your play has been scummy from the start. The answer to your last question is obviously, "No," but you're too interested in painting instead of thinking.

so your calling me scummy for calling you scummy?

lol

see my last sentence and think long and hard about how you play this game

Your saying my play has been scummy from the start.

and my first post was a case against you.

So your saying all my posts from the start are sucmmy.

And my first 3 posts were building a case against you.

So your saying my first 3 posts are scummy.

Yes?

So:
Your calling me scummy because I called you scummy.

[kiwieagle]

I explained myself badly in the above post.

But you get the point (i hope)

[kiwieagle]

Bobsnox. Other than him, probably Toasty.

Have you finished reading?

[kiwieagle]

I disliken the point that before bud was scumhunting, now hes stopped just because hes getting revived. As if though he doesnt wanna make a mistake which will stop that revive from happenin.


and I dont trust toasty.

[kiwieagle]

I disliken the point that before bud was scumhunting, now hes stopped just because hes getting revived. As if though he doesnt wanna make a mistake which will stop that revive from happenin.
and I dont trust toasty.

So you don't like anyone?

Do you consider yourself everyone?


Yeah....

I would not like a toasty revival.

[kiwieagle]

Other than myself, I guess AntB? I really don't trust anyone else tho.

ALso:


Talk about being a hypocrite.

Your saying

I

dont trust enough people?

[kiwieagle]

@kiwi: I was asking you a question. I don't understand your reads, because in my opinion they are strangely out of place. I was simply asking who you liked.

Bub, AntB, myself. Thats more than no one.

@AntB: I was answering a question. I've had a positive gut-read on you, which, given the lack of participation in this game, is becoming important to rely on.
Here, I'll give an order:
Bub Bidderskins-He actually did stuff yesterday

AntB-He's playing cautiously, which in this game is a good thing; not being too quick to trust anyone

Pomegranate-Nothing she has done is "OMGTOWN," but I don't have any problems with her

malpascp wredfar-I didn't like the fail he replaced into, but he's trying. The resistance of some people to revive malpascp instead of Bub is sketch

kiwieagle-Reads have changed from yesterday (wishy-washy). I wouldn't have a problem with this if he actually explained his reads. Also very keen on saying "I don't trust Toasty." Plz, explain why without using crap like LOLHYPOCRITE when I wasn't accusing you of anything-simply asking you a question so I could see where your mind is at/who you want revived. Lazy reads are lazy.

StrangerCoug-Played poorly D1, has gone all lurky-lurk

Awesoma-See StrangerCoug

bobsnox-Scummy power/ simply shouldn't be revived today (risky); I would need to claim to explain the rest of my reasons.


Bottom line: PPLZ AMONG THE LIVING, this game is becoming stale, so hurry up and act, hunt, and actually do something. You are dictating the game here. Not me, not kiwi, and not malpascp.

When did my reads change?
When did you say you were fine with a bud lynch(revive)?
WHen did you ask me for my reads?

[kiwieagle]

@everyone

Why did we revive the most INACTIVE players?

[kiwieagle]

When did my reads change?

Bud is better today.
With both Parama and SC being possible buddies, bud is better.
Oh and SC I dont mind not getting revived, im not a PR.

@slaxx
Im indifferent.
You are the one making the choice, do what you think is correct.
Toasty has played a bit townish.
though wtf was the point of point of post #189.

So basically you thought I was stupid but town. Now you "don't trust me," but I'm not sure why.

Bit town to null isnt that big of a change.

When I say I would not want to revive you, its because I find people who are more town

When did you say you were fine with a bud lynch(revive)?

you know, bub is at the height of my list too atm. There are a lot of people who just don't have enough content.

@bobsnox: your power is swingy and I don't trust it. I also don't understand why you had to reveal it so early

That was the first time I mentioned it (I believe that was at the start of D1). Earlier I said that I was a bit pissed off at Bub, but didn't think this made him scum. In other words, I was feeling a bit biased. But after I cooled down and looked at it objectively, Bub was still at the top of my town list.

No comment.

WHen did you ask me for my reads?

My saying "so you don't trust anyone?" was me asking you who you wanted to revive. DO you trust anyone other than yourself? You never really answered malpascp's question, only said who you didn't trust (me, bub).
I should of said it in a less-round-a-bout way.

Heres who I trust:



-goes and reads D1-


bud (if people are determined for his revive, ehh im fine)
StrangerCoug



Heres who I would not want to revive:

malpascp (post 411, I wouldnt be suprised if mafia sort of has a great advantage if bobsnox (godfather?) is revived so maybe hes pushing for the revive)

bobsnox


Null:

Toasty
Pomengrate


Slaxx should of not revived:

crypto.

[kiwieagle]

Has he said anything that struck you as scum?

[kiwieagle]

Has he said anything that struck you as scum?

Bitching about RVS too much, then calling you scum, pushing it until Slaxx said something about you. Now your his big town read.

He called me scum?
(actually dont even answer that question, im asking you too many question which I should look for msyelf. LAzy kiwi should stop being lazy)

and point.


and bobsnox why is calling your ability scummy, scummy?
or actually: why does that make me bad town?

[kiwieagle]

I'm pretty sure I've got two of the scum—crypto and kiwieagle. wredfar or his replacement needs to post before I can even form an opinion of him, but crypto's arbitrary attack on him is clearly scummy. kiwieagle was explained in my last post.

Packbat is still the person I'm most in favor in reviving.

Yeah.

[kiwieagle]

I just noticed something interesting.

Take a look at post #400.

CDB says he can't tell how bobsnox power would interfeer with town win-condition. This means that role isn't predicted in the setup, making bobsnox claim absolutely false!

bobsnox is scum

I'm so smart

*cough* bussing *cough*

[kiwieagle]

kiwi why are you tunneling me? No one is going to revive you and no one is going to revive me. get over your hard-on for me

As long, as you/malpascp dont get revived im fine not getting revived.

[kiwieagle]

Holy cow dude move on. This is what I'm talking about. The fixation is getting old and it's pointless

...but if I think something is true, why not state it?

but I believe people get my point, so I will move on.

[kiwieagle]

Has he said anything that struck you as scum?

Bitching about RVS too much, then calling you scum, pushing it until Slaxx said something about you. Now your his big town read.

Whats scummy about the first though....

[kiwieagle]

I'm trying to figure out how malp's recent posts (regarding CBD's lack of response) impacts my read on him; I'd say it comes off as overall town. He seemed excited (if a bit quick) to have 'found scum' in a way that gave me a fairly townie impression.

it gave the opposite to me tbh

[kiwieagle]

kiwi, pom, toasty, sc = my scumlist if anyone cares. maybe kiwi is just bad town but the others are giving me heavy scumvibes.

Explanation?

why are you guys even talking about me anymore? just get some more townies alive and call me when you nail scum

Yeah, you guys to the work, just don't nail

me

I just noticed something interesting.

Take a look at post #400.

CDB says he can't tell how bobsnox power would interfeer with town win-condition. This means that role isn't predicted in the setup, making bobsnox claim absolutely false!

bobsnox is scum

I'm so smart

*cough* bussing *cough*

Yeah, everyone had already noted this.

@kiwi: why did you say I pushed for bobsnox revival? I was clearly against it (I think)

You didn't answer this yet.

Maybe we should use all the day to discuss on who is scum before someone hammers Bub

post 411

[kiwieagle]

Im fine with everyone but bobsnox tbh.

Also:
I have no idea why slaxx would revive crypto.
he was playing bad

this is a scumslip?

[kiwieagle]

But do we know who they are?

[kiwieagle]

No, but you just claimed that you don't give a damn about who's revived as long as they're not the PR that's (according to my theory) the most dangerous to scum.

Bobsnox is a double edged sword.

[kiwieagle]

Parama, your basing your whole case on the slip?

[kiwieagle]

Parama, your basing your whole case on the slip?

Screw off, mafia scum.
Packbat, you can hammer Toasty yourself if you want to see him hammered, y'know...

All you can do is deflect?


Dissapointing.

[kiwieagle]

You refuse to listen to reason. You refuse to act pro-town at all. I don't give a damn if you're town or scum, you're useless, obnoxious, and anti-town. You haven't given a good reason as to why Toasty's slip isn't a slip (hint: there is no good reason) and you're just trying to discredit it. What more do you want me to say?

Why did I refuse to reason with you?

You have refused to reason with me.

You jump on me for being scum....

...because I did what again?


and:
How am I trying to discredit the slip?

[kiwieagle]

EPWOP: When did I refuse to reason with you?

[kiwieagle]

Parama, your basing your whole case on the slip?

This is all you've said on toasty's townslip. Thanks for playing, come again.
Also I may elaborate on the stuff I found scummy from you. I have that list of posts for a reason, y'know.

That is all I said, because I wish you could elaborate.

and:
I have not posted content is what your trying to say?

[kiwieagle]

What this post is:
I started on page 1, read the entire game, and moved limbo people around after catching town and scumtells. No elaboration, because I've been bad at that recently. +3 to get over the green line, -3 to get under the red line. Anyone alive is irrelevant at this point in terms of reviving. Packbat is pretty much confirmed scum and I may use some association tells from that, but it won't be a major factor.
Mid-D1-read comment: You know what, no. I want to reconsider that Packbat read now. I am smelling a few things - namely, desperate scum, among a few players. They NEED a revival today, I bet, else everyone alive gets confirmed town otherwise. I will elaborate on some stuff later but the pieces are all coming together now.

ToastyToast +infinity; townslipped
Pomegranate +3

----------------

Bub Bidderskins +2
AntB
bobsnox -1
StrangerCoug -2

----------------

kiwieagle -3
MrTrow/Awesoma -4
malpascp/wredfar -7

SC #5 +1
Awesoma #16 -2
Bub #29 +1
Toasty #31 -1
Bub #67 +1
Awesoma #90 -2
AntB #92 +1
bobsnox #104 +2
Toasty #113 -2
kiwi #122 -1
Pome #145 +2
bobsnox #164 -1
kiwi #166 +3
kiwi #195 -1
Pome #221 +1
malp #231 -1
bobsnox #256 -1
Toasty #304 TOWNSLIP
malp #308 -1
SC #337 -1
malp #374 -2
bobsnox #393 -1
kiwi #409 -1
kiwi #421 -3 (this is close to a scumslip IMO...)
SC #429 -2
AntB #452 -1
malp #509 -3

Logically the scumteam here is malp/Trow/kiwi... I think this is unlikely at best, impossible in reality.
What the hell I think is going down in this thread:
SC/Bub/malp scumteam.
Yes I realize I have some townpoints on Bub. But... the association is very clear. SC's way of pushing the Bub wagon reeks, and malp fits in really nicely with this proposed team. If malp isn't scum, then kiwi is. I am going to call a mulligan on Awesoma because I think, frankly, he was a terrible player. Just that, nothing more.

Anyways, Toasty townslipped. That should be our revive today. I'm actually surprised nobody caught it, so I'll explain it:

lolwut? I was just watching soccer, and then I came back and thought Slaxx claimed scum (which is impossible given that we revived you first and therefore the game would have ended immediately.

What the slip is:
Toasty doesn't understand the scum win-condition correctly. I see no way in hell scum wouldn't know their own wincon, and he completely botched it here, unless I'm misreading something, which seems unlikely. Even then, Toasty gives off lots of townie vibes in recent posting; I stopped keeping track of him after his townslip though.
I really want to go to N1 with 4 town alive so we can have 4 confirmed town and basically an auto-won game from that point. If I'm right about everyone alive being town, then BUB SHOULD NOT BE REVIVED TODAY. If I'm wrong, BUB SHOULD NOT BE REVIVED TODAY. This is not his fault. It is almost 100% association, but Packbat's alignment has nothing to do with it at this point, and Packbat's alignment is the only one I'd call into question of the living players.

SC's posts seemed good at first, but I realized what game he's playing - he's trying to appeal to Pack's good side because he knows Pack's town and Bub's scum, and Pack is the most likely of the three living players to vote Bub. Lots of subtle stuff, but I think he's been getting what he wants and he knows it; the problem is that his attempts are just a bit too transparent.

My crackpot theories make some sense I guess. Either way I think it's a good idea to

vote: ToastyToast

and see what happens from that point on.

Yeah so your case is based on the slip.

I did read.


also:
Your slip is based on him making a mistake of the scum wincon.
It isnt much of a slip per se.



I can see Parama - Toasty as scumbuddies, which if true means we have lost.

[kiwieagle]

loldeflection

Yep.

[kiwieagle]

If mafia have had time to talk:

This so called "slip" can be organized.

[kiwieagle]

You're missing the point, and also are wrong, so I'm going to ignore you now forever :>

deflection

[kiwieagle]

If mafia have had time to talk:

This so called "slip" can be organized.

No it can't. It's a slip because it CAN'T be organized.
And if it was intended to be a slip, wouldn't someone have pointed it out earlier than I did? But nobody did. It took quite some time before I noticed it, and once I did, every scum and their mother tried to jump on it and discredit it, including you.
Answer this question:
In what world do scum NOT know their own wincon? It's in the PM, and in a game as complex and unusual as this, scum probably did quote a bit of studying up on the setup design.
I believe Toasty townslipped. Why the hell would I need more of a case than that?
I have now told you how you are missing the point in several ways. Tell me why I'm wrong or I'll never bother with a damn thing you're going to waste your time saying again.
Also bobsnox, I really hope you aren't siding with kiwi here, because it looks like you aren't and I love the way kiwi's trying to make it look like you are.

Remember that time where you were saying you hadnt read the thread and it was boring?
Thats the most probable explanation why you didnt it sooner.

and yeah it complex and unusual...thats why that "slip" isnt a obvtown "slip"

[kiwieagle]

*its

[kiwieagle]

You missed the point AGAIN. If Toasty had FAKED A TOWNSLIP, one of his scumbuddies would've probably tried to point it out much sooner than I did. Probably at the start of the day. It's not like something suddenly starts being a townslip 2 weeks after it's posted, y'know.

You missed my point aswell.

Remember that time where you were saying you hadnt read the thread and it was boring?
Thats the most probable explanation why you didnt it sooner.

Thats why you most probably didnt point it out sooner.
(as his scumbuddy)

[kiwieagle]

but oh well.

If you wish to revive him, then fine.
Not much I can do anyways, cause im in the nether


But it gives me bad vibes.

[kiwieagle]

Haha, no, you missed the point and are now trying to cover up your mistake.
If I was his scumbuddy, wouldn't I have already known he was going to fake a slip? Wouldn't he have another scumbuddy as well who would've known? If he had a scumbuddy who was in on the slip, don't you think it would've been pointed out sooner? I mean, I'm not the only one who can catch a townslip, right?

Its all WIFOM.

And im not covering up my mistake, I feel the slip seems faked, and its not even a slip.

and instead of saying "your missing the point" countless times, tell me what im "missing" so i stop "missing" it.

[kiwieagle]

Haha, no, you missed the point and are now trying to cover up your mistake.
If I was his scumbuddy, wouldn't I have already known he was going to fake a slip? Wouldn't he have another scumbuddy as well who would've known? If he had a scumbuddy who was in on the slip, don't you think it would've been pointed out sooner? I mean, I'm not the only one who can catch a townslip, right?

Its all WIFOM.

Lolz Parama

that's WIFOM too.

You can dismiss almost anything as WIFOM. Stop overusing a worthless buzzword.

WIFOM: Scum's argument when they know they've lost an argument.

Yeah. When people use WIFOM. (which is what you did)

And im not covering up my mistake, I feel the slip seems faked, and its not even a slip.

It's impossible to fake a slip, and Toasty' didn't fake it. Also yes it is a slip.

Yes you can

and instead of saying "your missing the point" countless times, tell me what im "missing" so i stop "missing" it.

Um, I keep doing that, and you keep missing the point. I mean, wow. WOOOOOOSHfest 2011.

You are?

they could have arranjed that the partner would "notice" the slip on Day 2, that the parter would "notice" it Day 3, or that he wouldn't "notice" it at all. You "not understanding" this disapoints me.

Now tell me the motivation for waiting this far into day to "notice" something like that.
*crickets*

[kiwieagle]

I'm so pissed at malp/kiwi because one of them's an idiot townie who will make my blacklist once the game's over for failing to comprehend basic logic.

You might as well blacklist me now, cause im town.

[kiwieagle]

I'm so pissed at malp/kiwi because one of them's an idiot townie who will make my blacklist once the game's over for failing to comprehend basic logic.

You might as well blacklist me now, cause im town.

I'm probably going to blacklist you either way, honestly

My first blacklist then.

[kiwieagle]

But meh, if you tell my mistakes.
I can try to improve but....



anyways:
Gonna go reread.

[kiwieagle]

Kiwi answer this quick
do you have a post restriction?

What would make me have a post restriction?

[kiwieagle]

Thats all?

[kiwieagle]

Trow, the idea that the tell was concocted is really far-fetched. All the people trying to derail the tell with crazy theories (i.e. Malp, kiwi, trow) are probably scum who really don't like the toasty wagon. I don't like mrtrow's big posts making up this insane parama/toasty theory. It just doesn't make sense. At worst, the tell is null, at best it gives us virtually confirmed town. Personally, I'm in the middle, but I think toasty's town for much broader reasons.

crazy theories?

[kiwieagle]

I havent seen Pom post much content.

She just seems to like to back up parama in any way possible.

[kiwieagle]

Holy cow dude move on. This is what I'm talking about. The fixation is getting old and it's pointless

[kiwieagle]

I know im town so trow and malp being scum just because they buddied with me is unlikely.


thats why toasty-parama-pom scum team is very possible.

[kiwieagle]

A cop that investigates people in limbo would be so cool.

[kiwieagle]

She is?

didnt know.

I added her because shes active lurking, and when she posts all she says is "Parama is right."

[kiwieagle]

So your not scum?


....


ok then now what.


Im I gonna have to reread?






ok then.


maybe malp and bobsnox.
wouldnt know about the 3rd tho

[kiwieagle]

Mmk

Bit of a suprise.

I was against toast = I know I wont get revived, but I know im town so I dont think trow is scum.

So if we revive one of {bud , antb, pom }

I would prefer... bud.


Not pom.

[kiwieagle]

Meh I was close enough with my scum reads ^^

[kiwieagle]

StrangerCoug, Parama, Pomengrate

[kiwieagle]

SCUM TEAMZ ^^

[kiwieagle]

THIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIS
WAS A TRIIIIIIIIIIIIIUMPH

Malp you know as well a I do what a no NK means. Unless scum are playing silly games with us (and there is no good reason for them to not kill) it means we have four living town players. Or an afk crypto-scum, but crypto's town so.

By my math, a town-vive today wins us the game.
5 living town players, 7 players in limbo - even if there's only two scum, that'll be 5 of 10 town players alive, which is half the total pro-town players. And if there's 3 scum, then it's 5 players of out 9, which is over half. Woopity wop let's win this game today.

Doesnt this look staged?

[kiwieagle]

If the conspiracy is true then he's scum so.

P-edit: Oh hey Kiwi so here's the deal if you can't answer all these questions, you will stop even hinting that I am scum.
If I was scum:
1.Why did I go out of my way to revive Toasty, even though he claimed some sort of PR whilst Bub did not? Wouldn't it be safer for me to let Bub get revived, knowing that he has a lower chance of being a PR that Toasty?
2. Why would I point out a legitimate townslip as scum?
3. Why didn't I kill last night?

Good day to you sir. Occam's razor says every living player is town.

1. Town Cred
2. Legitimate? ROFL
3. Make the town feel confident they can revive Pom etc. etc.

[kiwieagle]

C'mon... c'mon... this is going where we want... c'mon...

Why would town say this?


They are REVIVING Pom and he SAYS THIS.

[kiwieagle]

1. You're dodging the questions. Answer.
2. If I'm scum, Toasty is town, which means his townslip is legitimate. Now answer the question.
3. Yesterday, most people agreed that I was the most town out of the living players. If there was a kill, the suspicion would almost immediately default to crypto. So why didn't I kill?

1. Did you ever ask if Bud was a PR? No. And that shield thingy is from toasty most probably, which DOESNT AFFECT SCUM IF THEY ARE ALIVE
2. If hes town its NOT because of his townslip, and town cred etc. etc.
3. Thats WIFOM. and had you killed people would of been more cautious of the revival, because they knew scum would be alive. and YES people would of been suspicious of you. Especially when you are trying so hard to revive Pom.

[kiwieagle]

(Or, to put it more explicitly: StrangerCoug is either town and enthusiastic about town being close to victory or scum and must be ignored completely.)

One of those two is right

If the people alive at the moment are worried about me being connected to Bub Bidderskins, that's fine; since we're on good standing at the moment my revival ineligibility is only a small dent in things. An annoying dent from my point of view, but a small dent. The connection seems circumstantial to me, but I have viewed Parama and ToastyToast as the same alignment, most likely town, since the latter's slip and we now know how that worked out—very well.

EBWOP: That first line is at Packbat's post before Kiwi's crap.

Yeah. I would like to know what kiwieagle is smoking. The thing that comes first to mind is above, but it's been established that I couldn't care less about the anti-ToastyToast group.

C'mon... c'mon... this is going where we want... c'mon...

Why would town say this?


They are REVIVING Pom and he SAYS THIS.

The answer is very simple. My top two are Bub Bidderskins and Pomegranate, but since people are worried about the possibility about me being scum with Bub Bidderskins, Pomegranate is the only person for whom I can get support.

Why don't you want Pomegranate revived?

Who do you think is scum (other than me choose 3, because if you choose me and I know im town then its just stupid)?

[kiwieagle]

SCUM TEAMZ ^^

I was pro-Pomegranate yesterday, kiwieagle - if Parama had shifted his vote he wouldn't have had much trouble making me follow. And in that situation he would only need one town vote on scum, not two.

But Parama would of looked suspicious because he had pointed out a "townslip" already?

[kiwieagle]

1. You're dodging the questions. Answer.
2. If I'm scum, Toasty is town, which means his townslip is legitimate. Now answer the question.
3. Yesterday, most people agreed that I was the most town out of the living players. If there was a kill, the suspicion would almost immediately default to crypto. So why didn't I kill?

1. Did you ever ask if Bud was a PR? No. And that shield thingy is from toasty most probably, which DOESNT AFFECT SCUM IF THEY ARE ALIVE
2. If hes town its NOT because of his townslip, and town cred etc. etc.
3. Thats WIFOM. and had you killed people would of been more cautious of the revival, because they knew scum would be alive. and YES people would of been suspicious of you. Especially when you are trying so hard to revive Pom.

1. Even so, a claimed PR has a much higher chance of being a PR than an unclaimed PR. In other news, how could I have known what Toasty's PR was if he didn't claim it?
2. I revived him solely on the basis of the townslip, which nobody was able to disprove. Packbat revived him based on the same townslip. He's town because of his role PM, and he's confirmed town to the rest of us because of the townslip. Also I already pointed out why I wouldn't need towncred.
3. Your default response to questions you can't answer is "WIFOM LOL". I'm going to ignore it. If there had been a kill, do you think I would've been eager to vote, btw? We'd have been in the same LyLo situation we were in yesterday.

1. Had Toasty been... say a Role Cop... Do you really think he would have investigated YOU?
2. People dissaproved it, but were ignored.
3. Im sorry? Read the whole answer plz.

[kiwieagle]

1. Answer the question. Do you really think he would of investigated if he is a Cop?
2. Sigh. . You can call me idiot all day long, but that slip... wasnt a true "slip".
3. How am I supposed to answer that question?

[kiwieagle]

Who do you think is scum (other than me choose 3, because if you choose me and I know im town then its just stupid)?

You cannot take yourself out of the equation and call me stupid if I don't take you out of the equation. That's called poisoning the well. Right now I'm trying to figure out the two anti-TT people most likely to be town, and you're not doing anything to make yourself look better. Of the people that weren't against the TT revival, I am the most wary of crypto but I can set him aside for now since we're likely to get a clue about his alignment if the game continues after today.

Answer my question about Pomegranate.

Im not calling you stupid


What I ment to say:
Who are your 3 scummiest people other than me?

[kiwieagle]

Scum's looking for the quickest way to throw this game, now is it?

Im not scum.


Im town.
Im trying to find scum.
Maybe badly, but nonetheless trying.

but if its bobsnox,malp, antb
I was right weeeee

if its parama,SC, pom
I was right weeeee

[kiwieagle]

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/beepdog


and ever since I heard this, I cant stop listening to it

[kiwieagle]

But I have to be EXACTLY right, so I can go weeee

if its say: Bobsnox, Malp, SC
then I cant go weeee.

So its hard to go weee

[kiwieagle]

SC, kiwi's town.
Incredibly stupid blacklisted town, but still town.

Its a matter of learning ^.^

[kiwieagle]

I have scumvibes from Pom but no one cares so whatevs.

[kiwieagle]

^^ that sounds like a load of BS;

Her whole ISO consists of saying who she thinks is town and scum, and telling everyone that the thread is stalling.
Nothing more, nothing less.
That doesnt strike me as obv town.
I dont seem to find much scumhunting, a bit more like active lurking.