Mini 1217 - Campaign Mafia (Game Over!)

[Twistedspoon]

why would you volunteer so early maruchan?

[Twistedspoon]

are we voting for the townie or the scum? I'm confused

I feel noming so early was very suspect as it limited discussion. However timeater could be an inactive mafioso and that's why he was nom'd...

[Twistedspoon]

well maru is obvscum for noming himself s early, no?

or am i missing something?

[Twistedspoon]

okay, i think Fu manchu is just a troll

I time timeater is mafioso

do i vote manchu then?

VOTE: manchu

[Twistedspoon]

changed my mind

the fact he knew the thread was open, the trolling, the timeater nomination and the 'i'll check my alignment now' are all very scummy or anti-town and there are just so many it's bizzare to ignore

VOTE: timeater

[Twistedspoon]

...

[Twistedspoon]

i did not know

sigh. It's all happening today

the sooner these 2 are out of the game though the better tommorow will be

this game is messed up though

[Twistedspoon]

nijas: not a hammer?

[Twistedspoon]

the sooner this dark phase is over and we can move on the better

if manchu was town then it's his own fault we lost

[Twistedspoon]

well just this round anyways....

[Twistedspoon]

this day was a pile of wifom from maru's first posts

I don't want to dwell on wifom for too long, and waiting for timeater didn't look too great

whatever the outcome I'm sure we'll nominate town tommorow. we will have the new weapon of VCA

[Twistedspoon]

or Venomous Cartilage Ailment

but vote count analysis in this case

[Twistedspoon]

no worries

[Twistedspoon]

some last minute reads

I have reasonable town reads on Quilly and Johog. They make sense each in their own different ways. 1 might be scum but I doubt both are.

Packbat is being an enigma as usual. If he's scum he's dangerous. the way he went into the attack on Manchu straight away should be revealing after the flip. It looks so prepared it could be a bus should Manchu flip scum. Will look at him tommorow

considering there are 5 scum, I don't mind putting SD in the suspect pile atm from PofE. Just voteparks really :/
I need more from him

Hiplop hasn't done much, but I have a small feeling that this is his town self. He seems much more outspoken as town imho. Having played many games with him, meta tells me his 3 posts are town ones. Weak town read on hiplop. With the high percentage of scum in this game, he could be scum though.

Tovarish is probably town in that he hasn't arrived yet. If his activity had been indicated in the scum QT and such...

pom can be reviewed tommorow. The voteparking and tunneling will look more suspect in the event of a manchu townflip. Probably not scum with hiplop either

Also, I think no one should volunteer tomorrow until everyone in the game has had a chance to post.

this

[Twistedspoon]

ok, i think everyone on the wagon deserves looking at (including myself if I didn't know i was town)

packbat is clever. If he was mafia i'd expect him to be off the wagon anyways

johog is probstown now

pom looks most suspect from the wagon with 90% of her content being maru tunneling/ lynch pushing. Shadow dancer too. They are my 2 top suspects

hiplop and johog are my top townreads

not sure about quilford and luc

[Twistedspoon]

FoS: Shadow Dancer

FoS: Quilford

The ones setting of my scumdar atm.

pom?
have you seen her maru-pushing Iso

even criticising hiplop's vote, the only one who voted correctly ¦[

[Twistedspoon]

My top suspect is Twistedspoon. Quilford's behavior makes a lot of sense from a town perspective; he might be scum, but he might be genuine. Lurconis is terrible. Johhog might be town.

if I'm you top suspect then you should be able to say why. As top suspect you can't just leave it at that. I've explained my reads and I expect you to as well
minor-Fos: packbat

my only previous game with you is there goes the neighbourhood isn't it packbat? How do you feel your play in that game is reflective on your play in general? Should I compare you to that game? Should you compare me to that game?
one must consider these questions

the absence of timeater means VCA is half as powerful. However hiplop is probtown since I don't remember his playstyle being a bussing one
johog is still town and Tova perhaps

Quil-pom-SD-packbat is a possible scumteam. I think this may be the one from what I've seen so far. I'm far from certain though. Quil and packbat are my weakest scumreads. Pom and SD are strong

now

how do we decide the next candidate?

[Twistedspoon]

Town

Johog
Tova
Hiplop
Quilf
{pack, pom, SD}

Suspect

Luc is a wildcard. I haven't Iso'd him properly yet

[Twistedspoon]

I think the best strategy would be to choose our biggest townread to the election. Objections?

agreed

but I also want the ones who are the best posters to not be nominated as I don't want them to leave early

therefore I do not want johog to nominate himself

I think hiplop or tova would be good candidates. I have townreads on them despite their infrequent posting

[Twistedspoon]

Look back shadow Maru was town, he is already dead.

My top scumread right now is packbat. He jumped on the Maru bandwagon early then when it got going he got off as if to distance himself. Now that we know Maru is town this seems to me like scum trying to be able to have a I'm town, see look what I did defense.

Twisted spoon i have to FOS a bit on you just for being the hammer but your posts seem relativly pro town to me. I don't know what to make of hiplop, shadow and Tovarish as all have posted so infrequently.

Quill seemed to be coming from a protown stance to me.

I do have a question for you @TwistedSpoon why do you put Tova in town when he has one post so far do you feel that is enough to put him in a def town category or is he more of a not sure?

I'm at lunch right now so will only be around about 10 more minutes but I will check in when i can sneak it at work and then again when I get home.

I can't blame you for your Fos. had i realised i was hammering I probably wouldn't have done it. I'm not proud of my hammer at all

as for tova despite 1 post I have a strong townread on him
reasons
1) he is a late arriver. I was too and I'm town. I expect most of the late arrivers to be town as scum would know in their QT when they've nom'd someone. It's a weak reason but still valid
2) In his only post he is arguing with an exited player. He clearly didn't know manchu was gone at this point. If he were scum he'd have more info, such as manchu's alignment and the scum's plan to have timeater voted
3) Tova's only post is one of frustartion at the town candidate. This is entirely understandable from a town Point of view. Manchu, it could be argued, lost us the round. Less so from a scum one. What reasons do scum have to be frustrated at manchu's play? It's a blessing to them. Whilst the reaction could be faked I find it unlikely that it is, especially in the first post of his, and before his catchup which indicates he had little time to prepare

I hope to learn more about manchu's alignment in subsequent posts

[Twistedspoon]

Anyway: I think we should pick our strongest read - scum

or

town - for the next candidate. That will force the scum into a more difficult situation for picking an opposite.

I don't see why I'd want to pick my top town read. They're probably the ones I'd want with me as long as possible to help catch the scum

as soon as they're nominated, they'll leave after that round. best keep them for as long as possible, no?

[Twistedspoon]

you are a peculiar character packbat

[Twistedspoon]

My top suspect is Twistedspoon. Quilford's behavior makes a lot of sense from a town perspective; he might be scum, but he might be genuine. Lurconis is terrible. Johhog might be town.

if I'm you top suspect then you should be able to say why. As top suspect you can't just leave it at that. I've explained my reads and I expect you to as well

This isn't based on any prior game - it's my impression that you tried to distance yourself from Timeater and then changed your mind to vote for him.

you did the exact same

voted him and then unvoted him shortly after

Y'know, actually:

UNVOTE: Timeater

the "I'll stick my vote on him again later" would make a fine bus too. The promise of a vote on soon to be confirmed scum yet without the downside of the actual vote on him :p

so why don't you like Luc's posting packbat? you failed to give a reason for this too?

I would be fine if you were nominated, packbat. Your flip would reveal more about quilford and luc among others

[Twistedspoon]

the flaw is that I don't want to lose the best scumhunters at the early stages of the game

I'm fine with forcing scum to nominate themselves though. That should be fun to see them squirm

[Twistedspoon]

Preferably hiplop or Twistedspoon. Hm, hell I'm not sure of hiplop. Wouldn't Twistedspoon be a good nomination?

not sure if everyone shares your town read on me johog

whilst I'm willing to take one for the team if you want me to, I'd prefer to be around to scumhunt for as long as possible. This is the only game I'm in right now so in terms of MS it has my undivided attention

[Twistedspoon]

Tovarish would be a fine nomination because of my reasons and because of his inactivity- a small loss

however the disadvantages are that he does only have 1 post, and we could be repeating the last round, having our nomination on the back of little info

[Twistedspoon]

ok i understand

do you want to be nominated johog?

personally, I like to gamble, but now is not the time I realise.

I feel if you were nominated we'd be even but then in the same sticky situation for the following rounds. who to nominate after you?

[Twistedspoon]

still not sure why we'd cash you in now johog

what do we think of forcing SD to nominate himself?

do we trust hiplop's vote on timeater wasn't a bus?

[Twistedspoon]

I can see that being a good choice. I would prefer you over tova or hiplop as he has posted enough to give a good solid town read, How many should we wait to abree before going ahead?

are you talking me or johog?

[Twistedspoon]

agreed

I just don't want to play our best card so early, but thems the ways

[Twistedspoon]

@pom: maru was scummy, that's all true, even I thought that, but other than maru pushing you didn't talk much about anyone else. (I suppose this is less of a factor in these types of games though where only 2 players can be chosen, 1 who hadn't posted)

I think hiplop's maru vote seemed a town one. Even I at first voted maru for the same reason he did. It was the 'now to check my alignment' that was the killer though

[Twistedspoon]

Based on Maruchan's flip, I'm leaning town on hiplop, Johhog, Lurconis and Pom and scum on Shadow Dancer and Twistedspoon.

this makes sense how when pom was on the maru wagon? In fact, you were too

not liking you saying that you're confirmed town either. That's for us to decide, not you

but if you think you're so swish I have no objections to your nomination myself

[Twistedspoon]

Based on Maruchan's flip, I'm leaning town on hiplop, Johhog, Lurconis and Pom and scum on Shadow Dancer and Twistedspoon.

this makes sense how when pom was on the maru wagon? In fact, you were too

Twisted you're smart enough to know that town can be on a mislynch

I know, but I'm asking you what the difference is between these candidates

[Twistedspoon]

why don't you make a case rather than get everyone to make their own conclusions

you haven't even said why you find me scummy in this game, let alone compare it to another

those 2 game cannot be compared anyways. Whilst my playstyle is just as direct as ever the nature of this game and that one makes it like trying to compare riding a bicycle on a road and the same bike under the sea.
the vessel's the same but the conditions and technique are wildly different

[Twistedspoon]

let me be blunt

Quilford how do you say my play in that game is different to this one? And don't say you were more transparent because that means nothing and is exactly the sort of flimsy meta accusation I would expect scum to use.

all I'm asking you to do is explain you read on me

and the reason I found you "Welp I guess I'm conftown now. lol" post so scummy is because it's exactly the sort of self-preservation that i'd expect scum to use. Town modesty is a virtue. If you hadn't come along and said yu were confirmed town then that ironcally would have made you more town. It's only scum who have to flount their townieness. You weren't even in danger of the lynch/ext at this point so I saw no reason for it, and your baseless conjecture doesn't stand well with me either

[Twistedspoon]

Twisted, you seem too fixated on the idea that (almost) anyone who voted Maru is scum. I'm sure there's scum there, but there are definitely townies too.

I'm not

I don't think Luc is scum and I know I'm not

I've given my reads beyond the wagon. It's pushing the wagon to drastic proprtions that irks me

[Twistedspoon]

@Twisted--

Based on Maruchan's flip, I'm leaning town on hiplop, Johhog, Lurconis and Pom and scum on Shadow Dancer and Twistedspoon.

this makes sense how when pom was on the maru wagon?

You imply that there's no way I can possibly be town given that I was on the Maru wagon. Wut?

no, it's just quilford didn't explain his reads. I.e. how did he distinguish between me, SD and you

maybe I worded it badly

I believe there is at least 1 scum on the maru wagon because scum push myslynches
I also feel that maru was scummy enough to attract 3 or 4 townies to his wagon, like myself

therefore my reads formed. I have explained my reads

[Twistedspoon]

let me be blunt

Quilford how do you say my play in that game is different to this one? And don't say you were more transparent because that means nothing and is exactly the sort of flimsy meta accusation I would expect scum to use.

all I'm asking you to do is explain you read on me

Screw that. You were more transparent. Your play in that game just rung town. Everything you said just sounded like it came from a genuinely townie perspective. I recommend everyone go read that game and compare.

how was I more transparent?

you haven't said what of my posts you don't like

you're like arguing with my younger brother here. I never get anywhere.
Until you give reasons I won't be happy

you've still got other things to answer but tbh I can't be bothered chasing them questions down If I'm going to get the same scummy answers.

[Twistedspoon]

johog, do you think quilford is confirmed town?

[Twistedspoon]

I should be close to confirmed town for my post asking Maruchan for the timing of his Role PM, which at the time was something only a townie would know.

I'm not sure I understand this reason quilford

what's not so say both scum and town got their role Pms at the same time?

[Twistedspoon]

Lolno. Why would he be? He is one of the scummier in this game imo.

hmm

not sure if this is just the 'old quilford' playstyle though. I'll admit I'm unsure. I don't understand why he find you scummy

I also think hiplop's last post could have included more. He seems to be avoiding taking a stance on many issues and reads, but maybe that's just his inactivity. Hvaen't seen any particularly strong tells either way, but I'm leaning town on him

I still feel this game is incredibly scum-sided. imo scum should never have ~45% population as well as the advantage that they know each other and have a QT. I shall rant about this more at the endgame if we lose

PEdit: I'll explain my reasoning on Lurconis in a bit - don't change the subject.

how about now? I don't want you to forget :/

oh god. I forgot about this completely

Wouldn't a scummy player be better for the town? we want obv towns for end game dont we?

Good point - although we need to have a backup towny volunteer available, in case deadline looms and our scummy candidate concedes the case by refusing to self-nom.

it was my idea to keep the obvtownies for the end
but yeah, this looks the best plan

anyways I'm off to play football manager now. 2024 seems to be my lucky year :p

[Twistedspoon]

Crazy felt the need to actually post the timing...?

I have come up with a real accusation, and I do have other points that I am too lazy to post at this point, like the fact that what obviously happened was Twisted voted Maruchan for towncred and then immediately switched, quoting all previous reasoning and not even offering an original perspective on things, once he realised he had the hammer.

an original perspective? my perspective was that I found manchu scummy but not worthy of a quickhammer when I realised i had hammered
that's how all players feel after they realised they have hammed accidentally and I was no different

what sort of 'original perspective' were you looking for?

[Twistedspoon]

Crazy felt the need to actually post the timing...?

so? he said that wasn't indicative of alignment or something like that, meaning that PMs were sent out at the same time

@crazy: were scum role Pms sent out at the same time as town Pms, and would we be able to use role PM time to deduce alignments?

[Twistedspoon]

Lolno. Why would he be? He is one of the scummier in this game imo.

hmm

not sure if this is just the 'old quilford' playstyle though. I'll admit I'm unsure. I don't understand why he find you scummy

Did you just admit to not reading my posts? I'm pretty sure I list Johhog as town in the same post I list you as scum?

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 9#p3335109

I also think hiplop's last post could have included more. He seems to be avoiding taking a stance on many issues and reads, but maybe that's just his inactivity. Hvaen't seen any particularly strong tells either way, but I'm leaning town on him

Fencesitting.

I'm weighing him up. if you don't have a nullish read on hiplop too, i'd be surprised. so don't call me out for fencesitting when it's only natural to have a nullish read on hiplop

Theory discussion.

so? I kept it brief and then continued to talk about the game afterwards. It's not like it ruined any momentum or was a focal point of mine

For some weird reason you guys are all overlooking the obvious fault in this plan which is that if we nominate who we think is obvtown the scum will nominate obvscum and vice versa?

do you have a better idea?
and isn't this theory discussion here yourself the irony

so? he said that wasn't indicative of alignment

Lies.

at the very least it's against the spirit of mafia to try and break the game by figuring out role Pm times instead of scumhunting. at the worst it's useless and time-wasting

or something like that

Backpedaling.

it's not backpeddaling because I can't exactly use that weak term to give me a free contradiction later on

anything else or can we idscuss how your read on johog changed in 2 posts?

If that isn't backpeddaling then I don't know what is

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 9#p3335109
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 2#p3336752
you call me out for things you do yourself. backpeddaling, theory discussion. You Mr. Quilford are starting to irritate me

[Twistedspoon]

I don't for things for 'towncred'

it doesn't cross my mind, even as scum. You know that from royal mafia. I did nothing for towncred in that game

a new question to you: why do you think johog does not view you as confirmed town? He is a town read of yours and you seem quite confident that you're confirmed

This game is less fun with quilford refusing to listen. I'd like to nominate myself if there are no objections. The sooner I flip the sooner I will be content at quilford not understanding what transparency is and perhaps he'll realise that once a player doesn't play identically to a previous town game of theirs, it doesn't make them scum.

[Twistedspoon]

Only scum use the excuse of 'against the spirit of mafia'. And you've somehow brought up this completely different argument instead of responding to the fact that you were lying when you said he said it wasn't indicative of alignment.

no, I use it

you know very well from my last game that I value good scumhunting above all else, even encouraging you to make cases on me and explain your reads(as town). A hollow victory it is when you play against the spirit of mafia. why not get all players to swear an oath that they're not scum? It's against the spirit of mafia and I oppose these tactics as town or scum. Besides, I still fail to see why scum and town role Pms won't have been sent at the same time

[Twistedspoon]

You're doing exactly what Maruchan did and you're doing it for towncred in light of his flip.

no, i just want to exit this game nominated or not because you're insistence and refusal to listen aren't making this game fun at all for me.
furthermore I feel my flip would give my reads more weight. manchu had no reads so I'm doing it for different reasons y'see

and I've ignored the rest of your points because I can't be bothered since you don't listen. You're too "lol TS isn't transparent look at this game guyz. look, he mentions theory for 1 line lolscum" and I'm fed up to be quite honest

[Twistedspoon]

Nah, we need a obvtown or a obvscum, and I'm afraid most won't agree that you're obvtown Twisted. Quilford is one candidate we could nominate as obvscum, but I would prefer Shadow or something along that line tbh.

if i exit i just want my reads to be listened to. I feel I'm one of the few who have amde a full list of reads and explained them. If any info will be gathered from a flip, It's mine

[Twistedspoon]

a new question to you: why do you think johog does not view you as confirmed town? He is a town read of yours and you seem quite confident that you're confirmed

answer this quilford

[Twistedspoon]

there is a part of me that thinks Quilford might be town johog. But I just don't know what to think. I feel he might genuinely believe he is confirmed town, even if the reasons are hazy to me, and that's a towntell in itself of sorts.

If we forced SD to nominate himself I'd be content. something needs to happen and that's the best bet

[Twistedspoon]

whoever we vote is to nominate themselves

nomination votes

SD - 1 (TS)

not voting - everyone else

[Twistedspoon]

furthermore I feel my flip would give my reads more weight. manchu had no reads so I'm doing it for different reasons y'see

and I've ignored the rest of your points because I can't be bothered since you don't listen. You're too "lol TS isn't transparent look at this game guyz. look, he mentions theory for 1 line lolscum" and I'm fed up to be quite honest

What's your case on me? "lol Quil thinks he's conf town that's not modest lolscum"

I don't have a case on you

I think you could be town as much as i don't want to admit it

[Twistedspoon]

I think packbat summed it up very well

Quilford's behavior makes a lot of sense from a town perspective; he might be scum, but he might be genuine.

[Twistedspoon]

the thing is I just feel that Quilford genuinely believes that I'm scum

now scum couldn't genuinely believe that I'm scum because I know I'm not even if you don't, but quilford genuinely believes I am.....

anyways

we need to vote who will nominate themselves

nomination votes

SD - 1 (TS)

not voting - everyone else

[Twistedspoon]

I never said I found quilford scummy. I've said he won't listen, is wrong about me and a variety of other things, but I just think he could be town....

[Twistedspoon]

you cool with SD nomination quilford?

you or SD would be a good nomination I feel

[Twistedspoon]

I never said I found quilford scummy.

Your reads list indicates otherwise. Please continue lying blatantly.

that was before you tunneled on me for what feels like forever

it was you insistence to the extremes and belief that I am scum that feel so genuine, albeit wrong, could only be town to me.

you're probtown to me. I'm probscum to you. Let's leave it as that for now and bring it up again after one of us get nominated, because right now we're going round in circles and the best thing for both of us is to consider other candidates

[Twistedspoon]

nomination votes

SD - 2 (TS, johog)

not voting - everyone else

[Twistedspoon]

I did not know it was the hammer. my catchup methods are odd, and I've been criticised in the past for having confusing catchup posts. I tend to catchup backwards to read the most recent posts first and then when i realise things aren't making sense i start from the start. It's a bad habit of mine. I didn't pay much attention to the votecounts when i voted. I should've realised it was the hammer. I did not though and that cannot be changed.

anyways you 2 need to stop tunneling on each other. there are 4 scum sat snugly in a QT who only gain when we forget about them. I need more from topa and SD

[Twistedspoon]

@crazy: were scum role Pms sent out at the same time as town Pms, and would we be able to use role PM time to deduce alignments?

I'm declining to answer this.

will you answer the first part?

[Twistedspoon]

Right about why I should be confirmed town.

see, quilford is just so sure that he's confirmed town he has to be town

for scum it would be near impossible for them to push the point about their confirmed townieness this far as they's know it would be impossible for them to ever be confirmed town because they would be scum

[Twistedspoon]

for scum it would be near impossible for them to push the point about their confirmed townieness this far as they's know it would be impossible for them to ever be confirmed town because they would be scum

LOL. Remind me about sigging this sentence post-game.

quilford won't be flipping scum I assure you

[Twistedspoon]

okay, you can sig it I guess :p

Quilford: Because you're scummy as fuck. ESPECIALLY since you seem to think that you're confirmed. Besides, it's much better to force-nominate our scummiest read.

but In it's own bizzare way that's what makes quilford so town. it would just never cross scum's mind that they're confirmed town, let alone push the point so hard

[Twistedspoon]

but In it's own bizzare way that's what makes quilford so town. it would just never cross scum's mind that they're confirmed town, let alone push the point so hard

Not agreed. Scum can do that just as much as town can.

no, because if quilford didn't truly believe to be confirmed town, he wouldn't try and push the point so hard because it could backfire

[Twistedspoon]

Also we can't actually force someone to nominate themselves.

no, but they'd be obvscum/conf. scum if they refuse

But your last rebuttal of mine rebuttal of your rebuttal makes no sense.

this is more sigworthy imho

[Twistedspoon]

after this long back and forth im thinking this may be town v town.

yah, exactly what I've been trying to say

anyawys, we need DS. badly

[Twistedspoon]

No, I don't want Shadow Dancer nominated. Barring townflips from at least one of you (and probably more), Shadow Dancer is on my

town

list,

just because

y'all are so eager to nom him.

K, well should SD flip scum you shoot up my suspicions list.


an SD nomination is still very cool from me. very likely to be scum and much info can be gleamed from his flip

[Twistedspoon]

Is there any opposition to me nominating myself tomorrow, considering I should be basically confirmed town?

PEdit: Doesn't mean you were refreshing the wiki every 40 minutes?

If he flips scum no problem if he flips town, all of us who quick voted him, myself included, are scum sus and we should discuss it I feel. That is just my gut reaction anyway.

This is the first point where I began to feel oddly about Lurconis - in part because this feels like laying the groundwork for the unfavorable flip.

what's not to read it as him considering all eventualities?

[Twistedspoon]

But can't we get even more info from a town flip on me?

probably, but packbat and quil don't exactly see you as town right now, sadly :/

[Twistedspoon]

Packbat should agree to an SD nomination just to prove his theory

Spoiler: theory rant

the reason this game is flawed is that with only 1 townie above scum, you need all townies to trust your judgements to get a majority for any decision. If any one townie doesn't have a town read on any 1 other townie then they're powerless as they need 100% of townie followings, unlike in conventional mafia where scum have a much smaller % of control. the advantage of 1 extra townie is nothing to scum's advantage of choosing nominations and knowiing who's on their side, as well as always having a near majority

it's also suicide to hazard a guess at a scumteam in a game like this since scum are nearly 50% of the players and can easily oppose you

[Twistedspoon]

packbat, I would very much like you to nominate yourself

[Twistedspoon]

I'd still want to nominate myself.

we have at least 2 players who would vote you scum

until a flip from ether one, I don't think that's particularly sensible

[Twistedspoon]

^I don't see why you're refusing to give townreads

we need townreads to know who we should nominate,as you yourself say

[Twistedspoon]

my reads

{TS} me
{Quilford, Johog} very strong town
{Hiplop} strong town
{luc} most likely town
{SD} wildcard. His justification of the manchu lynch is... interesting

No, all we will do is tell scum whom

they

should nominate. They are overhelming in numbers, thaey have the second pick and they can beat any town strategy.

So I won't discuss non-nominated players. And I won't nominate players to volunteer because that would require me to give my reads.

I trust no one. It's the only winning strategy. The sooner you realize this the better.

If we don't give reads then the town's strongest weapon - discussion - is pointless and wasted

I don't see what you are going to contribute right now if you won't give us any info

[Twistedspoon]

@Twisted: I don't know why you require any justification for the machu lynch. He justified that lynch himself with his very first post.

this is all true but why bring it up now? we're very much past the manchu saga

anyways, if you won't give reads what will you be doing for us?

[Twistedspoon]

I have certain plans with this game... which pretty much involve folowing my game plan and win this. Not giving any prospect into what I'm goning to do at any point in the future is key element of it, though. Watch and learn.

why do you have to be such an enigma?

If quilford thinks I'm not transparent then I dread to wonder what he thinks of you

[Twistedspoon]

I don't want TS, Johhog, SD nominated. Or, for that matter, Quil, mainly because he keeps volunteering/saying how townie he is. I don't find him scummy otherwise, but that's enough to not elect him, at least for now.

would you be willing?

[Twistedspoon]

I think we could nominate johog if a majority think he's town

[Twistedspoon]

Yeah, I can only see two guys (Quilford and Packbat) who has a scumread on me.

does anyone else have a scumread on johog?

[Twistedspoon]

quilford calls me not transparent and SD is all 'well I won't give any reads or anything but i have a super secret plan'

[Twistedspoon]

quilford calls me not transparent

that implies that that's all I call you

well what do you think of SD? how can you call me not transparent when I'm explaining what I think and I haven't got a clue on SD

[Twistedspoon]

I say packbat or Pom

[Twistedspoon]

so....

what are your reads so we can refer back to them after you flip town?

[Twistedspoon]

Well then why the fuck would you nominate yourself like that?

because he's a townie who can't wait any longer

scum wouldn't do it; it's too risky a move and like Johog says, his flip would give too much away

[Twistedspoon]

johog's got a town mindset and that's all that matters right now

[Twistedspoon]

I think Quilly was asking you why he should be thinking that you are indeed town, as if your objections and genuineness regarding the manchu case weren't enough

[Twistedspoon]

who told you guys the thread had reopened

I wasn't told >:(

[Twistedspoon]

@Duplicity: do you think this game is scum-favoured?

[Twistedspoon]

This is just a though, but scum would know when the topic was about to be reopened

*looks at packbat and hiplop*

anyways, johog has always been obtown and pom scummier and less contributuing

VOTE: johog

[Twistedspoon]

regfan, why are you stalking me =|

[Twistedspoon]

Judging by the players who have voted so far, I am once again inclined to vote Pomegranate. Shadow Dancer and Twistedspoon were L-1 and hammer on Timeater.

pom was an early vote, but a major force and tunneled on maru if you want to use that logic

[Twistedspoon]

Judging by the players who have voted so far, I am once again inclined to vote Pomegranate. Shadow Dancer and Twistedspoon were L-1 and hammer on Timeater.

in fact johog wasn't even on that wagon at all, even better than pom

this logic is very broken packbat. >:(

any excuse to not vote the obvtownie

pom has done little or nothing to convince me she is town
Johog has done everything and more

[Twistedspoon]

can someone just vote johog to prove packbat wrong and scum once and for all

[Twistedspoon]

there's no way johog was scum or pom town

you'll see

[Twistedspoon]

final reads johog?

[Twistedspoon]

Lurconis, that was a freakin stupid move.

Quil and Pack are town. I'm having trouble getting a read on Duplicity.

no

nonono

johog was town right?

[Twistedspoon]

I don't want to live on this planet anymore if Johog is scum...

[Twistedspoon]

can I just add though, duplicity, that If i was Luc i would've hammered. I was just so sure Johog was town and pom scum...

Duplicity, myself, and Luc make up the town with one more player who I'm unsure of. Probably Hiplop

SD, Quilford and Packbat are the mafiosi then.

[Twistedspoon]

I called it

but if Johog was scum then I don't deserve anything. I feel embarrased greatly if he was. I was certain he was town... I still don't believe it

[Twistedspoon]

have I played with you before, Shift?

[Twistedspoon]

pom you _____

it's bad etiquette to toy with the town after your flip

[Twistedspoon]

well I meant hammered, not flipped

[Twistedspoon]

ok, I'm confident the other 3 townies are hiplop, duplicity and Luc

the hard part is convincing the small majority of town there is that pack, quil and SD are the mafiosi

but now I have the weapon of pom's Iso and Johog's reads

Duplicity's #481 and #485 are incredibly town reactions and the rest of the scumhunting is very sound

I'm going to look over the Luc iso and see if there are any pom connections

[Twistedspoon]

Hey, Duplicity, it's your happy day. Random.org demands me to urge you to be our next volunteer. You surely don't want to argue with or disappoint random.org, do you?

1) why on earth are you wanting a volunteer before we have had time to analyse things in light of the flips

2) why on earth are you resorting to random when we're this far into the game

3) Duplicity is town

[Twistedspoon]

@ Twisted -

I don't believe you've played with Shift, he's relatively new

does shift have an MS profile? If so, link please

[Twistedspoon]

Epic mafia........

I'll stop asking questions now. I lost my appetite

[Twistedspoon]

I'm down for a hiplop nomination when we're ready

I don't think there's anyone with a serious scumread on him anyways...

[Twistedspoon]

No, hiplop is a lurker. Any excuses why you don't volunteer yourself, twisted?

because it's too soon

but I'm sure the townies will vote me should the time come

[Twistedspoon]

yaaaaaaay

I'm so dumb!

I'm going to go ahead and use the excuse that there are so many mafia in this setup that it's quite hard to tell the two players apart.

no

pom was always obscum

johog actually did analysis and had town processes

[Twistedspoon]

No, hiplop is a lurker. Any excuses why you don't volunteer yourself, twisted?

because it's too soon

but I'm sure the townies will vote me should the time come

If you think you'd be elected than it would be your best move to volunteer as any allignment. What exactly are you waiting for then?

for a start Luc hasn't arrived to give his thoughts

I don't like how you're trying to rush into this mr. Enigma

[Twistedspoon]

packbat is mine

[Twistedspoon]

if you want top town then look at duplicity

[Twistedspoon]

I play the same way as scum as I do as town.

Not encouraging. It doesn't help at all that you would rush in to run before you would even know your alignment. You'd think a responsible town would get together and try to figure out how the scum would go about running people long before going into the first election.

Twisted, what do you think of this post?

I've already commented on it

it's a townie cross at maruchan for costing his side the point. It's genuine town frustration. Scum have no reason to be angry at maru. They'd be delighted at his contribution

[Twistedspoon]

If we lose the game because of a rushed nomination, SD then.... >_>

Nominate myself

and don't take forever like you usually do scumteam

[Twistedspoon]

I'd have preferred a hiplop nom....

but w/e

him or duplicity can play after me

[Twistedspoon]

hiplop you slimy scum

>_>

[Twistedspoon]

I'm glad hiplop is against me because at any other nomination I'd have said he was the townie

hiplop is scum I assure you

[Twistedspoon]

@ Mod -

Can you PM the remaining players letting them know the day started, I only just noticed when I saw Lurc post.

packbat and quilford knew the day had started.....

[Twistedspoon]

packbat knew 5 minutes after crazy opened the thread.....

I think town is Myself, Duplicity and Luc for sure

4th option probably quilford

[Twistedspoon]

Woah. Wasn't expecting TS to be scum.

Smart nomination, though.

haha

faked reaction for sure here

I've said the same about you already

you probably planned this in your QT scum >_>

I'm glad hiplop is against me because at any other nomination I'd have said he was the townie

This is a very weird post, can you explain it?

I thought you were town until now, when you've become conf. scum to me

if it wasn't me being nominated, I'd have said you were the townie

but clearly that isn't the case

[Twistedspoon]

Come on you two, sling a bit more dirt at each other! I want to have some fun watching.

why?

there's nothing more to say except hiplop is conf. scum to me

[Twistedspoon]

[Twistedspoon]

I've only just noticed, but each time previously the player who nominated themselves has been town

this trend continues

[Twistedspoon]

yeah, I'll admit hiplop being nominated was a bit of odd play since against anyone else I'd have made sure he was seen as the townie

but then again I guess that's what scum want you to think :/

[Twistedspoon]

ok, let's pretend I'm scum for a minute

so I'm scum, I nominated myself and I thought

"who's a townie who is generally thought of as being scummy that I can nominate to assure I get the nomination?"

Of course, hiplop

[Twistedspoon]

I think I figured it out... But I had the headstart yesterday and this is interesting to watch... Also I don't want any one to make any lame "I don't want to vote with Shadow"-excuses... So... People, stop to try lurking this out!

interesting to watch?

are you a player or a commentator?

[Twistedspoon]

still it's wifom as any nominations by scum are

just look at hiplop's Iso and then my own

the conclusion should be obvious

[Twistedspoon]

I'm not the sort of player to go through my own Iso and say how town it is

If I'm saying I'm town, that's worth zilch as town or scum I would say the same

and as town or scum I'd say Hiplop's iso is the scummiest thing I've ever seen in the position I'm in.

I'm town and I can't help you here as everything I say will be pro-myself and anti-hiplop

I don't know what help I can give you, but if you have any questions about my Iso the least I could do is answer them

since both hiplop and I will say the other is scum the conclusion is up to you to make.

[Twistedspoon]

So you go from "hip's town" to "hip's iso is the scummiest thing I've ever seen" from one moment to the other. If it is so obiously scummy you can certainly point out the striking scummy behaviour patterns that he, according to you, displays.

until today I didn't consider hiplop to be scum

but now he's confirmed scum to me

with that in mind I will be reading his iso with hiplopscum in mind were i to read it now, rather than hiploptown as I previously did to fit my idea of the setup

[Twistedspoon]

VOTE: hiplop

I'll move that if I have to.

which part of hiplop do you find most town?

[Twistedspoon]

looking back at his iso it's just fluff to me

no analysis or anything

[Twistedspoon]

looking back at his iso it's just fluff to me

no analysis or anything

Yeah, I admit I lurked. But I did post content, just victim of circumstance I suppose.

so why should we (i say we, but I know you're conf. scum) believe you're town?

[Twistedspoon]

ts without referring to hiplop please tell me why you're town 'coz i'm not seeing it

hipop lurked and posted fluff

I analysed, made lists of reads, contributed

just iso the both of us and the result should be clear in 10 seconds

[Twistedspoon]

'without referring to hiplop'

so? I'm up against him so i have to be compared

I contribute he doesn't

I don't see what the problem is here

[Twistedspoon]

'without referring to hiplop'

so? I'm up against him so i have to be compared

I contribute he doesn't

I don't see what the problem is here

Twisted you do not have to be compared

You know this

I've said 100 times i contribute and analyse

hiplop doesn't

now tell me why the decision is so hard?

VOTE: hiplop

I'll move that if I have to.

which part of hiplop do you find most town?

His posts are tolerable - the only problem with them is that their kind of thin and sparse at the same time.

so I assume my posts aren't tolerable or something?

you haven't said why I'm scum?

[Twistedspoon]

you two are scraping the bottom of the barrel for reasons to vote hiplop over myself

[Twistedspoon]

the only reason packbat is voting hiplop is because his few posts are 'tolerable'

so unless my posting is wholy untolerable to packbat and he hasn't mentioned it, that's the weakest excuse to vote hiplop over me I've ever seen.

Packbat clearly has a reason to vote hiplop; he knows he's on his side. Packbat just can't justify his hiplop vote from a town PoV

[Twistedspoon]

so why should we (i say we, but I know you're conf. scum) believe you're town?

Theres no scum motives for anything i've done, I was trying to find scum, and I was keeping a long with the trhread, I just posted when I wanted to know something. I did lurk a little too much, and I'm sorry, but your case on me is just that, lurking. Town lurks just as much as scum, and if you look at my other games, I do tend to lurk as town.

you're justifying lurking here, not saying why we should believe you're town

you never scumhunted. You asked about 3 fluffy questions, the impact of which were zilch, and you had 1 unexplained reads list

that's it

no reason to see you as town, every reason to see me as so

of course, your two buddies are desparaately seraching for reasons to find you town, such as calling your posts 'tolerable'

it's a joke. An absolute joke

[Twistedspoon]

I've had a feeling that Twistedspoon's posting was ... artificial, since hiplop's nomination. Facts like his flip-flopping on whether hiplop's

ISO

was scummy

obviously, because I say him as town but now he's become confirmed scum to me, it's only natural for my read to change

hiplop has done the same too (he had a town read on me yet he's saying I'm confirmed scum)

Yet you don't point this out

packbat, you are obvious scum

Pre-Edit: Oh, and hiplop raises another good point - Twistedspoon took my answer to "which part of hiplop do you find most town?" and pretended that it was an answer to "why are you voting hiplop". I'm voting hiplop because I have been convinced that Twistedspoon is scum, not because I was convinced that TS was town.

all y9ou've said is you find hiplop's posting 'tolerable'

that is all you have given me to work with

the reasons you're voting hiplop are pathetic. It's obvious you're voting him since he's your buddy

[Twistedspoon]

Twistedspoon, why did you say hiplop was towny before he was selected to run against you today?

by PofE

because I was convinced I knew the scumteam and that hiplop had to be town for this to fit in

[Twistedspoon]

hiplop, I don't have the energy to humour you today

I have it on good authority that arguing with you is pointless

I've already explained that I believed I knew the scumteam so i convinced myself you were town. Twist this however you like, claim to read my iso however you like

all I've read is the vagueness of 'tolerable' on your part and 'artificial' on me that your buddy is trying to do to get away with voting you when it's obvious they'd do anything for a legit reason;

but there isn't one

you're a bad actor hiplop and I'm not going to waste any more time with you. The only reason you're still alive is because Johog assumed the rest of the townies would be able to see the forest for the trees, but so far only Luc has done this

[Twistedspoon]

Not a bad actor

Theres no fucking reason to AtE like that, honestly. You're being a drama queen ~

saying you're a bad actor is appeal to emotion how?

You're 'acting' since you're trying to be townie when you're obviously not to me

kudos for dismissing my entire post as AtE though

[Twistedspoon]

it means I can see through you pretending to be a townie
obviously I'm referring to this game, not RL theatrics

and I'm not hoping to waste any more time with you. It's correct protocol not to argue with conf.scum as they're not exactly going toadmit they're scum are they

It still isn't AtE at all though

[Twistedspoon]

not sure why you're saying I'm backpedalling

that's obvious; I know I have. But he became conf. scum to me

Johog went early so you'd listen to his reads. They're right.

[Twistedspoon]

duplicity, you should know me well enough to tell when I'm scum. This really isn't the case

that being said though I thought I knew hiplop....

[Twistedspoon]

@ Twisted -

Can you explain in some more detail why you believed Pom/Hip was unlikely please.

well obviously, It's certain to me now

And hiplop, that vote sucks.

I felt she could've just told him this in the scum qt if they were scum together (but after this i realised scum didn't have daytalk)

i forget a lot about pom. All i remember was she was scum and I made sure she got lynched. That's what mattered

[Twistedspoon]

you had a town read on me too though, and now you're saying I'm conf. scum to you

[Twistedspoon]

Thank you Quilford
I knew you'd come through

packbat is 99% scum and Luc 99% town. Duplicity is probtown too though

get one of those nominated tommorow and you should win and we can have a good laugh at the scum qt in the endgame

I was going to at one point make an oath that I'd never play mafia again if I flipped scum. That would be an easy win as hiplop would never be able to make the same promise, but I felt I'd play fairly even when the mafiosi of packbat and hiplop were annoying me

of course packbat will still be pretending to be townie at this point, but I can say I told him I was town :p

[Twistedspoon]

one of {Quilford, SD} is the last mafiosi.

I don't know which but I don't think it matters. Packbat is obvscum after he tried to get both pom and now hiplop voted over the two obvtownies.

as long as it isn't SD V Quilford in the next round the choice will be obvious as to who is town

[Twistedspoon]

You're town? You swear?

unlike pom I realise it's bad etiquette after a hammer

I am town

[Twistedspoon]

yesh....

go town

[Twistedspoon]

i don't find many games where scum to control only slightly less than the majority to be town sided but w/e

i still blame maruchan, although most of my own reds were way off

[Twistedspoon]

I'll post the mafia QT tomorrow if none of my partners object before then. Is there a dead QT?

yep

[Twistedspoon]

I'll post the mafia QT tomorrow if none of my partners object before then. Is there a dead QT?

yep

Man, now I'm wishing I was killed earlier - you guys had a lot more fun than I did.

not really

had i been left alive I would have pushed duplicity and Luc nominations way too hard. My reads were awful this game

[Twistedspoon]

Your play was equivalent to being a day vig and vigging someone in the first post of the game.

Which is also something I would do if ever given a dayvig role...

I think this tells us a bit about the playing strength of Maruchan.

maruchan isn't bad as scum actually