1237: The Orange Box - OVER

[Oversoul]

/confirm!

[Oversoul]

Reck, your reputation proceeds you.

[Oversoul]

I would answer those questions, but there are extenuating circumstances surrounding my legitimacy to be able to post on this site.

I'll get back to you guys on that.

[Oversoul]

CC gets town points for game-centric questions that get discussion going.

You're better than this.

Vote: Bub

Just LOOKING for reasons to start calling people town, eh?

It was a pro-town way of getting discussion going. Robo's questions are more null to me because they were less game-centric and more random. CC's questions were an attempt to start serious discussion about the game going.

I agree with this post. ABR's questions are going to be designed to help hunt for scum and I see no reason why a scum member would shoot himself in the foot by posting those types of questions.

It was a pro-town way of getting discussion going. Robo's questions are more null to me because they were less game-centric and more random. CC's questions were an attempt to start serious discussion about the game going.

So defensive, Bub?
VOTE: Bub

Scumbag haoala: calls Bub defensive
Bub isn't defensive

Unvote; Vote: haoala

major agreement with this post. Haoala just seems to be looking for any minute amount of scumminess and sucking it dry of its marrow.

DH is town.

For what reason? Because of the questions he asked.

Alabaska's uncertainty of Haoala's lynch makes me nervous and a flip either way in my mind would not clear him of town or scum.

Alright, well, to get the ball rolling. Some Random questions!!!!

1. What is your favorite animal?

Fpx/Peregrine Falcon

2. What timezone are you in? And if not too prying, where you from?

EST - FL

3. Are you excited about this game?

YES. Awesome theme. Sorry I was late to the party, but I seriously thought I was going to be site banned.

4. If I say Tornado, whats the first thing to come to your mind?

Waterspout

5. Do you prefer scum, town, or third party? Also, whats your favorite role?

Vanilla townie. I don't like being a power role because I feel like I am a hindrance to town as I don't know how to play those roles correctly.

6. Whats your favorite Orange Box character?

I don't really have a favorite role. I like the Black Scot from Tf2, though.

1. Why do you play Mafia?2. How doyoureact to people attacking you?3. What will you be known for in this game?

1. To have fun.
2. I get really defensive and push back
3. Probably nothing or most likely hate. I get a lot of hate.

[Oversoul]

I'll post tomorrow when my work load isn't as high. ^_^ I am happy with a Haola lynch.

[Oversoul]

I haven't really been paying attention to this game, but I can say that Haola is flail grasping at anything that might be scummy to get pressure off him. Since I forgot to vote you when I said I would

VOTE: Haola

Hiplop, how does you receiving an item make you 100% confirmed town? Does that also mean we can consider RedPanda 100% confirmed town?

[Oversoul]

Ok. Going back to look for crumbs for who Reckoner was going to hide behind. This game is pissing me off now as a neighborhood is outted + we lost our vig who didn't kill Chronopie for his quick hammer.

/sigh

VOTE: Chronopie

[Oversoul]

Bub, I see you lurking.

[Oversoul]

I am here. 'More reason to fear.

Right now I see Hiraki's response to Chronopies mission. Evidently a scum slip. Catching him like this seems iffy for my standards. Kinda sucks because he should have been told about win cons for town in a sample town PM.

So pretty much you all should be voting Hiraki. Per the current Chrono situation, I haven't totally read up yet. All of that is for later. Right now I want some sleep. Though I should be able to get something done tomorrow. No lynching anybody till I'm back, kay? Every one who does is getting mocked.

Right now is sleeptime.

VOTE: Hiraki

Safety as in don't die?

haha

VOTE HIRAKI

What are you two smoking? Did you guys just claim a different wincon from the town?

You do realize this is

The Orange Box

Mafia, and not

Half Life 2

Mafia.

Correct?

Either way, I wanted a clarification.

Unvote, Vote: RedPanda

You seriously need to die by now though.

What was clarified? I'm so lost.. what is this this... I am going to vote anyone who doesn't have the same wincon as me so that would be Chrono, Robo, and Red.

[Oversoul]

His wincon was clarified.

It's different from mine. And literally 2 other people claimed the same thing. Something is going way over my head and I am too tired to realize it. Hiraki, please explain. I have very little flavor knowledge and blargh. -__________-

[Oversoul]

does that mean... what the hell?

Can we not win with each other then?

Mod, can I not win with Chronopie because of the differences in wincon status?

[Oversoul]

I am here. 'More reason to fear.

Right now I see Hiraki's response to Chronopies mission. Evidently a scum slip. Catching him like this seems iffy for my standards.

Kinda sucks because he should have been told about win cons for town in a sample town PM.

So pretty much you all should be voting Hiraki. Per the current Chrono situation, I haven't totally read up yet. All of that is for later. Right now I want some sleep. Though I should be able to get something done tomorrow. No lynching anybody till I'm back, kay? Every one who does is getting mocked.

Right now is sleeptime.

VOTE: Hiraki

just noticed this (emphasis mine). there is no sample town pm, probably because the town will all have differently phrased conditions. more credence to the theory

Yeah.

I wish I had more to say.

But I don't.

Oh well.

So town do have different win conditions?

Seeking a replacement for Chronopie.

:Twitch:

:Twitch:

Wait, what? Where did it say 24 hour prod guidelines?

I'm inside the standard 72 hour, so colour me surprised.

prod dodge?

You're not helping my read on you Chronopie. >_>

Where is DemonHybrid by the way? He has to be up for a prod by now.

[Oversoul]

Well, my game load has diminished a lot recently so expect a post tomorrow. Busy doing hw atm

[Oversoul]

prodge, sorry everyone >_> I like the flavor and I don't want to replace but everything is quite busy for me.
ably
I promise promise promise you all I will post something of merit (cough, BB you're a hypo cough) later today, but that is probably going to late day

[Oversoul]

So far what I'm seeing is haoala trying to wagon on Bub with Reck, then DH and hip doing the same thing on haoala. That was my first reaction upon reading the thread, anyway.

scum post, pretty obvious one too.

Lets kill this guy shall we?

VOTE: numberq

VOTE HIPLOP

You were so confident about Haoala being scum. Did you just change your vote after robocopter called you out on your obvious bus. and calling that an obvious one is just weak.

Ok. Very sorry for the delay. I went to see a movie and the outing turned into a whole big adventure, but now I am here. I am tempted to vote a few people. RedPanda is one of those people. In this post he is taking Hiplop's and Robo's obvious joke and turns it into an actual vote instead of voting Hiplop for the actual scummy reasons we all thought he was scummy.

saying things like this implies you have a guilty on him or something. you can't be 100% sure all ready. your hyperbole bothers me, like you are trying to force a wagon

today i saw a cool cheeky scumbag try to take hyperbole and turn it into a case on someone

i didn't even fos him. where did i say i was making a case? i was criticizing him on his choice of words. today i saw a cool cheeky scumbag try to take someone's words and twist them to make a case on someone.

unvote, vote: xRECKONERx

I don't feel like scum would make a type of post like this and Reckoner dieing last night makes that feeling even stronger in my mind. Town points from Alabaska in my opinion.

A random post on haoala after there were two serious votes on him? you even typed in caps SCUM. are you sure how the game works?

yet again, more bad reasoning that hiplop is scum. I think RedPanda is avoiding calling hiplop scum for the obvious reasons because he knew they were not legitimate scum tells and instead is trying to force other posts of Hiplop's as scum tells for when hiplop flips.

Some people's reactions to haoala's wagon are amazing.
For example, Hiplop's #94 and #96.
In #94 we admits Haoala's scumminess, but says NumberQ is scummier. This is exactly the same as the "Vote: town, FoS: scumbuddy" tactic I've seen used before. In #96 he wants everyone to jump off the wagon (even though Haoala is scummy to him), and onto his wagon.
Sounds like scum trying to get scumbuddy out of trouble.
VOTE: Haoala
I'll take Reck's place

This post.. is just completely bad. He is using wikitells to say that Hiplop is scum. Hiplop was scummy, but the actions of this post just don't make sense. He calls Hiplop scum because of reactions to Haola's wagon and then votes Haola. I guess that makes sense because he calls the two scumbuddies, but he also admits to freely sheeping Reckoner and the whole post just seems forced. :\

Sorry im down with the flu. i was too tired to read anything last night.

@numberq You misunderstanding my vote on hiplop is weak to me. please reread my post.

to everyone else. after rereading this thread my gut tells me that numberq hiplop and haoala are our scum. just seems to me like they keep bussing each other.

Do you have any opinions on any other people? You used "reasoning" to say that Hiplop was scum, but now you are saying it is your gut? Did you forget that you were actually voting Hiplop because you found posts of his scummy?

major scum points for this post

/prodded

My guess is one of Hiplop OR Haoala, but not both, will be scum.

VOTE: Hiplop

Like Alabaska's statement, I don't really see scum saying this. His actions today along with the hammer and other people verifying his wincon make me doubt Chronopie as scum.

Hiplop, resorting to self-meta is not the way to go.
There was more AtR in #199. More scummyness =D

Yet more Wikitells. And what else is town supposed to do? Every action trying to get a lynch off their back can be found scummy. He is really sheeping Reckoner's opinion that both Hiplop and Haola were scum. Then again, so was everyone else. >_> Null-tell I guess.

UNVOTE VOTE HAOALA

Just for post 202.

Ya. Do not like this post at all. He doesn't look like he is actively participating and just seems to be going with the general flow of the game which was either a Hiplop or Haola lynch.

Safety as in don't die?

haha

VOTE HIRAKI

He is also quick to vote Hiraki who apparently does not have the Safety wincon (I don't either) and continues his general bad posting.

Why Bub?

My vote on bub is because he wasnt swayed by both the hiplop and haoala wagon and he believed both of them were town. Either hes brilliant at reading town and scum or hes scum. im going with the latter.

I find it funny how Hiraki did the same thing, yet the only reason you voted Hiraki was that he does not have the same wincon as you. This post shows that RedPanda is not actively scumhunting and is content with going along with the popular idea at the time.

Hmm, Alyx is a very strong claim.

unvote; vote: Oversoul

He contributed basically nothing on D-1 except to vote for haola at a convenient point in time.

Also, I find it interesting that both NumberQ and CC have got me as their top suspect, but are not trying to vote or pressure me. It doesn't do anything just to say "he's my top suspect" without any follow pressure or votes.

Um ya.. bullshit. I did contribute information, albeit not much. And I find this incredibly hypocritical coming from you because you are actively lurking in this thread.

Major scum points for this post (and yes slight omgus feeling).

@ Bub: when did I say you were my top suspect? Chrono is my top suspect, aka the reason why my vote is on him. You and Robo are next, then everyone else.

Of course with that latest post where you try to put words into my mouth, you are definitely scummier than Robo. I stand by what I said earlier, that we should lynch you or Robo next day when Chrono flips scum.

Oops, my bad. My point on CC still stands, though.

He is acting like RedPanda in that he is not paying attention to the thread. Actively lurking Bub is actively lurking.

@Oversoul I think that town has the same wincon but it's differently phrased. At least that is how I interpret my wincon.

That is a good way of putting it. At the moment, there are at least 2 town wincons I believe.

My vote on oversoul still stands: he still hasn't posted any content. ATM I'm willing to give CC the benefit of the doubt on not pressuring me since he's on V/LA, but he will have to answer when he comes back.

Yet again more active lurking.

I didn't bother to give a case on Corporal as it has been said already, but his jumping onto Chronopie is the same as RedPanda jumping on Hiraki and both are extremely suspect.

I am fine with lynching either RedPanda, Corporal, or Bub today. And with that UNVOTE: VOTE: RedPanda

Robo, you were prodded at the beginning of this game too.

[Oversoul]

Will respond to RedPanda and Bub in an hour or two.

Bub, you're still acting like a hypocrite. And RedPanda, thanks for calling me stupid. Really needed that.

[Oversoul]

Im sorry i didnt see the obvious joke if it even was a joke. i saw it as a bus and i saw him change his vote immidiately after calling the first guy scum in caps.

Ok.Now do you see why I have such a gripe with your reasoning?

Bad reasoning? i dont think you would know good reasoning if it hit you. Your reasons why you think im scum are bad reasoning.

No. You are taking these posts way too seriously and you used them as ammunition against Hiplop. Admittedly I sheeped Reckoner for Haola, but that just doesn't make sense that someone calling another person scum and voting them is bad.

Seriously? i used reasoning to say why i think hiplops scum = true. my gut =

both hiplop and haoala are scum

because they kept bussing each other. wait does this mean im losing scumpoints? yay!

Your reasoning for hiplop was bad. Your other reasoning was your gut. That isn't reasoning in my opinion.

No wait this doesnt seem true. i do seem to recall me participating more than you. and hiplop was placed L-1 already by someone which is why i unvoted and placed the L-1 on haoala because i didnt like his 202. why i didnt like his 202 ? because the exact same line he used i used before against hiplop and that time he was defending hiplop.

I know you participated on Day 1 more than I did. I was on the verge of getting site banned + I am in too many games and this one kinda took the back burner especially with Reckoner saying we caught two scum.

Please clarify what line he used that you used? Because he isn't defending Hiplop in 202. He votes Hiplop in 202.

Again i voted him because he didnt know what safety was which is my wincon and i didnt think there would be different flavors for the wincons.i changed my vote immediately since it made more sense but again you only got that by post 306 which makes me wonder if your not smart or acting not smart. SCUMPOINTS to you for that my friend.

im leaning towards the not smart but ive been tricked before.

I would make a comment, but you apologized. Thank you for apologizing, though.

Bub, you are playing a reactive game instead of a proactive game. You are waiting for others to make a comment instead of making a comment yourself which to me says that you are trying to feign scumhunting by using bits and pieces of other peoeple's opinions and then altering them slightly and making them your own.

You shouldn't be worried about looking scummy or asking questions before others have made a post.

pedit: Hiraki, I don't understand that post.

[Oversoul]

I know that feeling. >_>

[Oversoul]

Panda, your case for voting Hiplop was Robocopter's case? What the hell is that. ._. Please explain that part of your post.

Bub, want to tunnel me a little harder? Nice way to put your foot in both doors for lynch candidates as well. So townie.

Guys, we need activity of some sort. I don't care who you vote just as long as life is breathed back into this game.

[Oversoul]

14 hours guys we need to come to a conclusion. >_<

If Panda is a vig he needs to announce who the fuck he is killing tonight or he is going to die tomorrow.

UNVOTE:

I am willing to vote CC or Bub as I have said earlier.

Demon, why would CC need to claim so early? There isn't a wagon on him. That looked really fishy. >_>

[Oversoul]

So, guys, you're basically telling me that the Serial Killer could win either by:

-Killing everyone and being the last alive
-Getting some sort of item and using it
-Having the game reach a DEADLINE

That's really what you're telling me? And that's balanced?

Yup.

Whattya know, another Umbrage game went SPLAT.

My role was not well explained, so people thought I had died because I hid behind someone, which was false. My headcrab died, not me. But that wasn't explained. Also, LOL MAFIA POWER:

Disguising Strongman
Investigating Roleblocker
Daykilling Bulletproof Saint

Are you shitting me? This was versus LOL TOWN POWER:
Jailkeeper (made irrelevant by the strongman)
Semi-Permanent Bodyguard (a much weaker version of a doctor)
Limited JOAT (don't even know what this means)
Bus Driver (not exactly a very useful role in the hands of town)
Hiding Neighbor (except I didn't get to pick my target, and my death wasn't explained at all, and the neighbor thing was useless)
Paranoid Neighbor (don't know WTF this even means... PGO? Thought I was scum?)
Tracking Vigilante (maybe the only good role town had)
Displacer (wut?)
Limited Cop (once again, a limited version of a town role)

Then we had GLADoS, who could win THREE different ways -- standard SK wincon, the time-related one LOLOLOL, and getting an item. Yet, if she won via items, she was removed... but if she won via time-related shenanigans, the game just ends?

Not to mention town had different wincons.

Empking, seriously, what the fuck? Are you this bad at setup reviewing? Did you really allow your name to be stamped on this?

This was bad bad bad bad bad. The item randomization being completely random (as was my role, as was who knows what else) is also a level of LOL WTF that shouldn't really be in a mafia game, unless it's BASTARD MOD.

ugh.

I have a similar feeling, but I'll explain some of the balance factors.

I am not going to comment on the balance issues since I don't know the roles of the town, but I will explain the "balance" that was made to the scumteam.

The ending to this game was unexpected and quite frankly, unfair to everyone involved. In my opinion, activity win conditions should never be implemented in games as they are incredibly cheap. External factors contribute to an activity wincondition for more than an individual's play and this is especially prevalent in this game.

I felt like I had this game figured out going into the night which is why I wanted the game to go into night.

I realized that there was likely a set of numbers that gave out the same item when Number and I received ammo and Hiplop did not. I also knew that Demonhybrid was either cop or a doctor of some sort given his play and I was going to have him killed tonight via another Strongman shot (I killed you Reckoner). I wanted Bub to set RedPanda on fire as he was a vigilante, but I don't know what Bub was doing through out this day. Either way, I was setting him up for a mislynch tomorrow (not that bad when I explain our roles).

I also supsected Robo of being one of the neighbors (along with Reck and Demon) and with the 3 night kill flavors assumed he was the mafia in that neighborhood.

Captain Corporal and Hiraki were also relegated in my mind to be mislynches based off their play as Robo's partners. Alabaska was also a possible second scum member that I wanted to kill on a subsequent night.

My role was not as powerful as you think it was Reckoner. I could change my investigation result (roles/flavor name), but I was not informed of what their role or flavor was. In addition, scum were not given complete fakeclaims, just names of characters that were not included in the game. We had to create our own abilities and actions. My strongman ability could be used in conjunction with my Disguise ability, but I also needed Ammo to do so. You were killed because you were such a vocal and town player. The next victims on our list were Demon and Robo due to their competency. I am really a fan of hamstringing town by removing its best players (regardless of alignment).

We either investigated or roleblocked Demon the first night (I can't remember based off Number's play) and due to Umbrage's strict no cryptography rule we were really hindered in giving results to each other. He would not allow the cryptography that is universally accepted where you hide a message in a paragraph through the capitalization of the first letter in the first word of the sentences (basically like Robo's crumb).

NumberQ had to use ammo in order to use his roleblock. I also think he needed to use ammo for both of his abilities actually. I can't really tell from his posts in the QT.

Bub's role was interesting. He could use ammo to light someone on fire, but we were told that the town could do certain things in order to extinguish that fire. I wanted Bub to use that ability as someone hammered or when deadline was very close to happen (like what happened the second day). As you can see from his post, he had other ideas for that power. In addition to that ability, Bub acted as a bomb to whoever hammered him. He was also bulletproof which made me think that there was a second scum group especially after Hiplop flipped vigilante (did not think there were two vigilantes in this game, Panda proved me wrong ).

Umbrage, why are you so against the cryptography that basically all informative scum members use? (Robo's crumb is an excellent example)

Would I have been lynched because of the deadline? I really don't think I should have been, others disagree? I don't see why scum should be punished for town's inactivity. Or do you have a rule saying that I should be lynched?

What was the "guest" part of the scum QT?

I felt like this game barring any bad mishaps would have been a scum win. :\

[Oversoul]

Rule 7 is a catch 22. If activity levels are crap, how will people be able to lock the thread? I know this may look like mod intervention but maybe you should have bolded that rule or at least brought it up when Robo had his fiasco...?

Important game specific rules tend to be missed when they are mixed with the normal, obligatory site wide established rules.

Due to the dual wincon, and your explanation of... "threats are anyone who does not have your wincondition" it wasn't that far fetched to think that town would over analyze the situation. It made me think that there were acutally 4 groups of players, 2 town groups and 2 scum groups.

Still like your opinion on the cryptography.