Zom Com Mafia - Mini 1225 (Abandoned)

[ace5993]

Vote: PeregrineV

Captain Corporal's random question is lolno.

@Chronopie - Sup.

[ace5993]

I'm hardly panicking, and even if I was, who cares?

Vote: SleepyKrew

You are full of shiiiiiit. My vote wasn't opportunistic and I demand you tell me why you would slander me so.

EDIT: actually, nah,

Unvote
Vote: Maruchan

Why are we killing a PR actually capable of communicating effectively with us? Seems like a policy for policy's sake.

Did Maruchan post after you had typed out the first half of the post or did you simply change your mind? Also Seraphim has already voted for three people (two for real reasons) and FoS'd another (for asking a bad random question?).

[ace5993]

Daytalk stuff

Why the huge blowup about this? You severely overreacted to a statement that didn't even concern you. In fact the only way it was relevant to you at all was that you didn't agree with it. Would you say that you have this tendency to overreact in all your games? Yes, asking for self-meta here but only one completed game so lol. The only reason I ask is that I don't see this argument as necessarily being scummy.

What is a little bit more concerning is Maruchan's contrived latest reason for voting SleepyKrew. You voted him to get "interaction"? This is just a blatant lie. Flailing hard as newb-town I could see but making up lies as newb-town is far less likely. I could definitely see Maru being scum but I could also see Maru being town, and I'm not so sure I'm ready to support this wagon. I could easily see this being scum-driven.

Maruchan: If you are telling the truth here what interaction did you hope to gain from voting SK?

And if you're seriously going to attack me for vote-hopping(Ace) or voting "opportunisticly"(SleepyKrew), please explain to me how it's scummy. Yes, I've voted for a lot of people. I am giving and explaining my reads, on who I feel is scum at that moment, or who I feel needs pressure.

I attacked you for vote-hopping because I feel voting (and FoS'ing in this case) for a bunch of people early in the game is a great way to say "A lot of people are scummy, I'm cool with any lynch that looks like it's going to fly".

InflatablePie: Why did you wagon Chronopie?

What is the purpose of this question?

Anyway, I believe the person who needs pressure the most here is

Vote: Seraphim

[ace5993]

Let's take a look at my voting history, shall we?

First I vote chronopie during the RVS because of RVS wagon lulz.

Then I vote SleepyKrew because I wanted to provoke a reaction. However, I decided to change this after Maruchan made his post voting for SleepyKrew because "kill all Post Restrictions"

I also voted Captain Corporal for trying to make everyone answer a useless question.

How is that vote hopping? I have voted for three people. One of them was RVS. One of them I voted for all of a post before changing my vote.

Why do I need the most pressure again?

What is the purpose of this question?

Are you reading the game? Read back through my post again.

So essentially you're saying you've just been throwing your vote around randomly. Reaction testing and asking useless questions require votes these days? You needing the most pressure was a reference to your post I quoted where you said someone needed pressure (I forget and am not inclined to look back right now). Looks to me like we may just have differing playstyles but honestly if I was the 4th or 5th person you voted or FoS'd in the first two pages of the game I wouldn't feel any pressure at all. In any event what about Maruchan's claim makes you think he's scum? I'm assuming it's something since you unvoted to investigate it and came back screaming for a lynch.

You haven't answered my question about why asking InflatablePie about his RVS vote was relevant, and you did not originally provide an explanation for it either.

Unvote

, since I don't see scum pushing so aggresively for a Maruchan lynch but please answer the questions.

[ace5993]

Guys scum have daytalk and Sera has scumclaimed. Also Maru is obvscum since scum have daytalk. I have reason to believe Maru will be lynched with

Vote: Maruchan

. More soon, gotta go right now.

[ace5993]

First consider Maru's overreaction to the daytalk question. If Maru's scum this points towards daytalk, he wasn't implying SleepyKrew as scum, there's no reason for someone to be geniunly concerned about the question, so there was no reason for him to act that way unless he's trying to make himself look more town. This clearly implies that if Maru is scum, then scum have daytalk. And after thinking about it, I don't see a town player making the statements he did.

gimme two secs to go open my PM. my role is really confusing.

Translation: lemme consult my scum partners to help me with my fakeclaim.

^he knows this is all true. You don't make an offhand statement implying scum have daytalk unless you know they do. Also "let me help with your fakeclaim, I'm on right now".

[ace5993]

Also nice rolefish Maru.

[ace5993]

^ Drowning in the wifom etc.

First consider Maru's overreaction to the daytalk question. If Maru's scum this points towards daytalk, he wasn't implying SleepyKrew as scum, there's no reason for someone to be geniunly concerned about the question, so there was no reason for him to act that way unless he's trying to make himself look more town. This clearly implies that if Maru is scum, then scum have daytalk. And after thinking about it, I don't see a town player making the statements he did.

gimme two secs to go open my PM. my role is really confusing.

Translation: lemme consult my scum partners to help me with my fakeclaim.

^he knows this is all true. You don't make an offhand statement implying scum have daytalk unless you know they do. Also "let me help with your fakeclaim, I'm on right now".

Seraphim is still confirmed scum though

Vote: Seraphim

.

Also Maru wasn't referring to this game when he said that but rather "all the games he's been scum in on-site".

More later perhaps, I'll re-read D1 but it wasn't very interesting the first time so.... right now I'm at a few town reads, Seraphim as scum, and everyone else about the same.

[ace5993]

Re-read a little.

@Sera - both you and chrono are taking that statement out of context. It's fairly obvious that it wasn't directly referring to this game, and I don't think Maruchan would be stupid enough to make a "scumtell" like that.

Not sure if I like Jak or Corporal for the fourth scum. Maybe Peregrine, but I'm not as sold.

Oh, wait a second.

Maruchan/Bogre/Jak/CC.

Everything makes sense now.

These were 2 hours apart with no post from Jakalope. Also Pie had Jakalope as scum earlier in the thread. Basically, Pie's just posting random reads because he's lazy scum.

Jakalope is scummy too, but I'd much prefer a lynch on one of the above.

Town

CaptainCorporal
PeregrineV
SleepyKrew
Starbuck
Twisted Spoon

Neutral

Bogre
Chronopie

Scum

Cojin
InflatablePie
Seraphim
TheJakalope

[ace5993]

both you and chrono are taking that statement out of context. It's fairly obvious that it wasn't directly referring to this game, and I don't think Maruchan would be stupid enough to make a "scumtell" like that.

You think that Maru wouldn't be stupid enough to drop that scumtell but somehow, for some reason, I am apparently stupid enough to "reveal" that scum have daytalk.

I'd love to hear the exact motivation for why "joking about the scum QT" would only come from scum.

There's a huge difference between saying "THIS IS WHAT THE BOLDED NOTICE IN OUR QT SAID" and you off-handedly making a comment that you forgot would need insider information to make. There's never any "motivation" to make a scumtell, it was a slip. Most games I've seen are night-talk only so it doesn't make much sense for you to assume that there is daytalk.

Let's break down Maru's comment anyway:

Do you think that scum can't communicate at all?

Every game I have been scum in on-site the thread

(*thread here means scum QT, note the reference to every game AS SCUM and also the parallel "bolded notice" references)

gets a bolded notice from the mod saying no talking, and outside-of-thread communication is against the rules, so yes.

I assumed scum couldn't chit chat except at night.

Each mod does it differently when it comes to scum. Some allow daytalk, some don't.

That warning is meant for everybody (scum and town alike), but its not a measure to prevent the mod from allowing scum to daytalk in their designated QT.

(*Starbuck misinterpreted Maru's comment here, since he didn't realize "thread" was referring to scum's private thread, or QT)

How is a bolded notice in a scum-QT saying to not talk, not a measure to prevent the mod from allowing talking?

I honestly am confused now.

(*He honestly is confused here, because Starbuck took thread to mean the actual thread and not the QT, which means Maru has no idea what Starbuck is talking about)

.

This in no way, shape, or form implies that scum do not have daytalk.

Yawn.

Maruchan (8) - InflatablePie, Bogre, Starbuck, SleepyKrew, TheJakalope, Seraphim, Chronopie, ace5993
TheJakalope (2) - Twistedspoon, PeregrineV
Starbuck (1) - Captain Corporal
Not Voting (2) - Cojin, Maruchan

Busser, busser, where is the...

Hmm.

Vote: Bogre

Bravo, I've never seen such a remarkable case

[ace5993]

No dammit.
Vote Jak.
ObvZombieber

I think Bogre's higher priority. Trust me.

Holy crap it's part 2.

[ace5993]

The TwistedSpoon wagon is just awful. Post #278 represents an honest attempt at scumhunting, and SK's vote is pretty bad.

@TwistedSpoon - SK is town because of this:

oh I forgot

VoteSKrew

to get rid of the Post Restrictions.

Vote: TheJakalope

, yeah obviously Sera and Pie aren't happening and this is much preferable to a TS lynch. Also it just realized that Jakalope and Sera probably aren't scum together though since Sera probably wouldn't bus Jakalope this much after Maru yesterday.
------------------------------------------------

So due to Maru flipping scum and taking an extra vote, its probably safe to say that will be the same for all scum. Just something we all need to keep in mind.

Yeah uh, let's not assume that. What on earth made you think this would be true?

On ace's Post 255,

On that first quote, I understood that he meant the QT. I also didn't misinterpret his post, quit assuming you know what I meant.

I was referring to outside communication like people using PMs, FB, AIM, what have you. No matter what faction (scum to scum, town to town, or town to scum). I was also referring to the general rule of no outside communication.

Well then I guess me and Maru both misinterpreted your post because it looked like you referred to the warning in the scum QT as being for both scum and town. My point is still valid because if that's what it looked like to me there's a good chance that's what it looked like to Maru. It's nonsense to assume Maru could have made such a blatant slip and that no-one caught it at the time, because it didn't happen, and I'm not sure why you guys are trying to paint it as a scum tell after the fact. Well actually I know exactly why Sera is >_>

I have a question for you: if scum do have daytalk, why did Maru make such a huge bloody deal about the entire daytalk thing? Why did that argument take place?

QFT. Answer this please, ace.

First consider Maru's overreaction to the daytalk question. If Maru's scum this points towards daytalk, he wasn't implying SleepyKrew as scum, there's no reason for someone to be geniunly concerned about the question, so there was no reason for him to act that way unless he's trying to make himself look more town. This clearly implies that if Maru is scum, then scum have daytalk. And after thinking about it, I don't see a town player making the statements he did.

Pet peeve - people asking you questions that you've answered in the very same post that concerns them. Sera's post was highly suspect and the combination of that and Maru's overreaction makes me believe that there's daytalk.

[ace5993]

If there is a vig, this is aimed at you.

Do not vig me tonight. I understand I'm suspicious to most of you. (I don't think I've played with any of you before, but I'm always suspicious. I'm not very good at this game.)

However, if you wish me dead, wait until tomorrow, where I can explain my role.

Why is today so much better for you to claim than yesterday?

[ace5993]

Uh no, we're not lynching him after that claim, sorry. Incidentally, potash is a real thing.

Unvote, Vote: InflatablePie

.

[ace5993]

No Jak, I think you are a paragon of towniness. That's why I requested you be vigged and wagoned you to L-1
ace, what's so townie about it?

Potash is real. This means the basic premise of his claim isn't fake. I also doubt Maru was lying about his abilities. Maru used bones (preventing them from turning to ash) to get abilities. TheJak turns bones to ash to get his abilities in what appears to be a better role than what Maru had, since he can actually choose his abilities. Scum having both these roles? Not likely.

[ace5993]

I see the argument for Bogre.

You'll have to look inside I-Pie's mind once more and spill the beans for everyone else.

@SleepyKrew - A bit late on the Sera bandwagon, Pie wagon is bigger right now.

Anyway found further proof that I-Pie is scum in case everyone wasn't convinced already:

Tunnels hard on Bogre for no apparent reason all day until:

Unvote

I'd say it is. It's a mult-use JoaT.

Jak, did you use an action last night? And if so, what?

He thought (or pretended) he was voting Jakalope... No mention of Bogre since then.

[ace5993]

@TS - did you know your role PM was going to change yesterday?

[ace5993]

Meeehhh on the claim. (NOTE: potential ramblings ahead, didn't want to re-read this >_>). I agree that it's weird that there aren't more non-humans in the scum, especially after Maru flipped, but once again he isn't lying about his ability because it would be risky as hell for scum to fakeclaim that (easy for any possible non-human Town to reveal their non-human-ness). On the other hand if Pie is town and does have that ability it makes sense that there aren't any more non-humans in the mafia party because it would be too easy to just lynch all the non-humans. Not sure what to make of it in general. Night-vig is also meh and could easily turn out to be unprovable/not a real ability if he's scum. Although that then brings us around to the fact that Pie really has the "backseat" ability, which he can't be lying about, so what is the point of scum having that ability if all of the townies (save TS originally) are human?

Doesn't clear Pie for me like Jakalope's claim did but enough to make me want to wait and see.

Unvote, Vote: Seraphim

.

Twistedspoon is town and my only suspicion of him came from my FoS of him. I never stated TS as my second biggest scumread. Reread my post on that matter. I was trying to placate SleepyKrew and get him back the Jak wagon, NOT state TS as a scumread or a possible lynch candidate.

"Everyone thought TS was scummy back then so I thought he was too but now that he's generally being considered town I was never suspicious of him. Just because I

said

he was scummy doesn't mean I

thought

he was scummy."

Yeah I've been tunneling on Sera/Pie for a little since I 100% think they're scum (well, down to like 60% on Pie) but I do have comments on other people which are incoming later tonight.

[ace5993]

I don't like Sera's posting, but on day one, the way Maru and Sera talked.. I can't see them being scum together.

Specific examples?

Here are the "other comments" I promised.

Captain Corporal's scumteam claim followed by an immediate change of opinion (also note going from TS is scum to TS is town for META in 14 minutes) is bizarre. I could definitely see a lot of his play today as just rolling with the general town wagons, while also noting his refusal to join the Maruchan wagon yesterday. Not a scumtell in and of itself since I didn't particularly find Maru scummy either but worth mentioning since he hasn't had any original opinions today (aside from those that he has changed immediately). His brief stint on the Pie wagon followed by a "Pie is in between" reflects badly on both of them.

SleepyKrew - I've become unconvinced that Maruchan's interactions with him proves SK is town, I could easily see the interactions being scum -> town OR scum -> scum. Might meta Maru on this later. Complete overreaction to TS's vote on him is very bad. Nothing about his play screams scum but nothing screams town either. He's basically Also I'm just gonna say right now that I think the posting restriction is fake. Us Zombiebers be hating.

ChronoPie - Agree with someone's point about him not really doing much... at all. Probably explains why I failed to get a read on him last time.

So yeah this is the second three after Sera/Pie/cojin (who nevertheless gets a free pass for now obviously). SK's probably the towniest (or more accurately least scummy) of the three but most people have been disregarding him (including me) so I wanted to include him. I don't see any of these as viable alternatives to a Sera lynch.

[ace5993]

EBWOP: Apparently I forgot to type out most of a sentence while sharing my thoughts on SleepyKrew >_>

*He's basically been saying the same stuff since halfway through day 1, which can be pulled off easily by either scum or town.

[ace5993]

ace, why do you suspect my PR to be fake? What motivation do I have?
Sera is still scum.
Zombiebers need some shields cause they DEFLECT bro.

I don't think there's any motivation, I just think you made it up to be funny >_>

[ace5993]

@mod

- Any updates on Cojin?

[ace5993]

I think composing a list of top 3 reads is a really bad idea but everyone posting reads is a good idea.

Seraphim
InflatablePie
Cojin

[ace5993]

^Yeah replace Cojin with him.

[ace5993]

Seraphim
Jak
TS

I thought TS was a solid townread?

ace, why is claiming suspects bad? Why'd you do it anyway?

It's not, making some sort of 3 votes each list of everyone's reads is bad. If you're talking about why CC's post was bad it was because of TS.

[ace5993]

Yeah this is not going well right now, not sure how more people aren't seeing Sera-scum.

[ace5993]

Oh yeah and:

Why is the list bad? I did it because game is stalling and this will help choose the lynch.

Because:

1. Possibly distant 2nd and 3rd place scum reads are given equal weighting
2. Easier for scum to manipulate than through regular voting (they all slip some random townie they notice a lot of people have into their list, then don't have as much accountability/scrutiny on them than if they were voting that person as a top suspect.
3. Any type of polling list in mafia games is 100% guaranteed to be a bad idea. Takes focus away from the individual and onto the collective, which is the easiest way for scum to blend in.

[ace5993]

Maru then provided an explanation, and if Sera was his buddy, he could've have been "Oh well that seems reasonable", but no, he pushes even harder for a lynch. I know that scum can bus, but purposely starting and pushing a lynch on his scum buddy? I don't see that happening. Maybe Sera could be Third-Party, but he isn't scum. If you truly disagree, ace, I'd like an actual case.

Yeah it's bussing. Also if Sera voted Maru first he probably wasn't thinking about getting Maru lynched at that time, 1st vote on a wagon =/= wanting an immediate lynch. If you can't find the case on Sera, I don't know what to say. Read my iso, add SK's recent point about Sera caught in a lie about his FoS on TwistedSpoon and you have a monster case.

[ace5993]

BTW, if you were looking for associative tells, why didn't you vote TheJakalope, who was bussing like fuck?

Part of a case =/= a whole case.

[ace5993]

@Sera

- When/why did you start having suspicions of me?[/quote]

--------------------------------

@MoI

- Why is IPie town again?

The early three vote train on Chronopie peaks my interest, especially in light of Seraphim’s reaction to being voted.

Expand on this please.

CC’s 99 I don’t like in that he completely ignores Maru completely and does some fence-sitting on Seraphim while simultaneously voting him. The followup Starbuck vote is something I’m going to have to look at in full. He attacks Starbuck for a weak-bandwagon hop that looks to me like bussing. Merits further observations.

You voted CC because he was the most viable wagon out of your top scum picks but this was your only point on him.

Those most likely to be bussing: Starbuck, Ace, Jakalope (at last 1 scum is here for certain)

Those who fairly strongly defended Maru: Twisted, CC (most likely only 1 scum here max)

Those who ignored Maru completely: Chrono, Peregrine (likely scum here also)

Yet CC ended up in your shortlist of scum while Chrono and Peregrine were both leaning town (note my first quote in this post). Your other point on him was ignoring Maru at the beginning of the day, which then turned out to extend throughout the entire day. How do you have a leaning town read on him again?

My read on Seraphim is pretty Town. Not voting him currently and looking at the top of page votes for him I don’t see that changing.

Your point on him was that you liked his reaction to Maru's claim - in what way?

Summary: Magna's reads on key people (aka the nonsense reads):

Chronopie - gives early reasons to think Chronopie is scum, then switches his read to leaning town because Chrono hasn't posted much and there's nothing to go on. Hmm.

IPie - Obvtown for no reason.

Seraphim - Town, only given reason is that he liked Sera's response to Maru's claim.

SKrew - Leaning scum because of a suspected fake claim (wtf?). It should be noted that SKrew had already told everyone the claim was fake before MoI posted this.

CC - Only valid point is that CC voted Sera without a strong scum read on him but oh wait... it was CC's first vote out of the random stage and he did give a reason as to why Sera was scum. MoI then goes on to say that strongly defending Maru is a town tell yet somehow the other reason supersedes that and he votes CC. Except oh wait who had the most votes on them when MoI arrived? Oh yeah. CC was the largest wagon of the day so he needed a contrived reason to vote CC.

Sera wagon isn't flying right now and all this deserves a vote so

Unvote, Vote: MoI

.

To put in some sort of response on the case on me, it looks like MoI's main points of attack are me not being as suspicious of Maru earlier in the game and my case on Seraphim (which includes all the controversy over that one Maru quote). I think the best response I can come up with is that I wasn't as suspicious of Maru earlier in the game and I think Seraphim is scum. The case isn't completely contrived like the one on CC (also note MoI's STILL not voting me, even after Sera did), but it's pretty weak and I don't think he wanted anyone other than CC to get lynched today.

CC's claim is neutral, but the early claim leans town and his subsequent vote of Jakalope looks like town, albeit stupid town for forgetting that Jakalope is conftown. Plus the wagon has obvscum MoI, probscum IPie, and possiblescum Chronopie.

Deadline's coming up so... I will support lynches of MoI, Sera, and IPie today.

[ace5993]

In summary? If you are Town (and I had this exact same discussion with Zang) then a quick RVS wagon where you are the sole target isn’t completely random.

But you have town reads of the two people who jumped on the wagon (IPie, Sera), with a scum read on Starbuck, who started the wagon and thus doesn't fit in to your theory. Oh wait. IPie? Sera? Can't vote your scumbuddies even when logic and good reasoning leads you right to them eh?

I don’t see that as Town play at all. He ignored the Maru wagon until it was impossible to do so then jumped on and tried to paint one of Maru’s biggest detractors as scum.

I had been on Sera's case all game up to that point and was happy I had finally proven him as scum. Maru was scum also by the same reasoning but it wasn't through finding Maru scum that I found Sera scum, it was by first proving that Sera was scum and using information from that to figure out Maru had to be scum also. So saying I tried to paint Sera as scum through Maru is horribly wrong.

[ace5993]

@MoI - Why is IPie town again?

Because I say he is. Are you trying to say not fully disclosing my Town read on the slot is scummy? Please be clear.

While we are on the subject - who are your Town reads and why are they Town?

You don't necessarily need to give reasons for every town read but when you say "this person is town and should never be voted" then yes, you need reasons.

My strongest town reads:

Jak - Confirmed by claim.
TS - Pretty much confirmed by claim, numerous good yet misguided attempts at scumhunting.
Starbuck - Very town reaction to the Maru wagon, a gradual and logical progression of suspicion. Scum would have jumped right on if they were going to bus, as I believe everyone else did.
PeregrineV - A ton of unique and good posts, don't see scum playing this hard.

Stuff about CC

Fair enough regarding the catchup post/not necessarily posting everything that makes CC scummy but again, if you are going to vote him reasons are needed. There were none in your post and from reading just your list of points I would have picked a CC town read from you.

Had you compiled one more quick RVS vote on you I’d be almost assured that at least 1 scum was on that wagon for certain. As it stands I’m thinking Starbuck has a good chance to be that scum anyway.

Here's the part I "scummily left out"... wait how is this relevant to what I posted? If anything it only adds to my case - the first sentence is a BS reason as to how you superseded your earlier logic (even though I've been posting about it it's meaningless), and the second one is saying Starbuck is scum, although she started the wagon and thus could not have anticipated the wagon forming. In RVS wagons the first vote is just a vote, the other people form the wagon.

[ace5993]

Jak - Confirmed by claim.

NO.

No one is ever confirmed by a claim, especially with mine which as of yet has no actions that prove it. (Besides me turning Maru to Ash.)

To clarify the reason since it was a while ago:

Potash is real. This means the basic premise of his claim isn't fake. I also doubt Maru was lying about his abilities. Maru used bones (preventing them from turning to ash) to get abilities. TheJak turns bones to ash to get his abilities in what appears to be a better role than what Maru had, since he can actually choose his abilities. Scum having both these roles? Not likely.

So it's not just because of your claim, it's because it can't co-exist with Maru's on the same team. It is also basically confirmed that you aren't lying about your abilities as I've mentioned above.

[ace5993]

You saying this is like saying, well, he is town enough that I can't make a wagon on him, so I'll just say he's conftown!

Oh and also lol.

[ace5993]

Town should not try to push a wagon unless they believe they have a viable chance of getting that player lynched, through either a case or possibly popular support.

Not counting random votes here's your voting/FoS history:

SleepyKrew
Maruchan
CaptainCorporal (FoS)
The Jakalope
TwistedSpoon (FoS)
CaptainCorporal
InflatablePie
Chronopie
ace5993

Also nice effort really pushing your ChronoPie counterwagon with this:

I'm thinking a Chronopie wagon if anyone is down for that.

Yeah that's pretty much the only case you've posted about Chronopie all game (accompanied the vote). You're damn lucky your scumbuddy got replaced and made up some

competent[/b] BS or you'd have been sitting on that wagon all day. You had a case on me since the beginning of the game, yeah right. You had "cases" on 7 players before you voted me, something tells me that you wouldn't have held back any suspicions.

This is highly opportunistic voting/avoiding the wagons you don't like and that's why you didn't manage to come up with a case on me. You're in a stage where you've decided CC is town (for something that happened D1 no less, guess that reason didn't apply when you were on his wagon earlier today) and didn't have any counterwagon to go too.

BTW, I look scummy because I don't care about looking town because scum for some strange reason love keeping me around as a potential mislynch.

Oh wait nvm you're immune to any suspicion because your scumminess is pro-town... somehow.

Yeah in for Sera/MoI today, we can wait on IPie to prove his role (even though he's still probably scum regardless).

[ace5993]

I don't see scum pushing so aggresively for a Maruchan lynch

What happened to this?

I saw it wrong, that was way early in the game and right after it you tipped the scale way down the other way again when I caught your daytalk scumclaim.

[ace5993]

Counting my FoSes is intellectually dishonest because I obviously never meant to push those wagons. My SleepyKrew vote also really doesn't count because that was more reaction testing, something I didn't need to do once I knew that Maru was obv scum. Once you get rid of that, my voting history is a whole lot less exciting.

It's not "intellectually dishonest" because I was comparing your other suspicions with your suspicion of me. There was no vote, FoS, or any type of comment on me at all until MoI started it up for you.

@Ace

– please provide an summary case of what about my play is scummy and warrants a vote (since you have still parked yours on me). I’d like to directly confront your accusations. It certainly doesn’t have to be verbose.

Main issue: I see a lot of logical thoughts from you that you then instantly back up on by either ignoring them or attempting to invalidate them with an illogical thought.

I want you to explain how exactly the bolded is true at all. Or is this more of your patented “Set-up speculation” that I’ve seen before?

Maruchan's role involved keeping bones as bones to gain abilities.
TheJakalope's role involves changing bones to ash to gain abilities.

So yes it's setup speculation but probably the least complicated I've ever come up with :p

1. Why would you care if IPie’s slot was to prove his role if he was scum regardless? That’s not Town oriented thought at all.
2. IPie’s slot hasn’t claimed anything that isn’t already confirmed in thread. What exactly are you waiting for that slot to claim?

1. His vig shot (if it is real) lets us gain an earlier flip.
2. Uhh... the vig shot? It's fairly easy for scum to claim 1-shot vig.

[ace5993]

ChronoPie stuff

Retracted, I did a search in your iso for Chronopie, pie, CP, and CPie but not for chrono >_> However even so did you really expect to be able to lynch Chronopie? Clearly you have what you think is a better case on me, I certainly didn't see you pushing so hard for Chrono.

avoiding the wagons you don't like

[/quote]

Well obviously you couldn't hop on your wagon and you couldn't hop on CaptainCorporal's wagon because you had been painting him as town at that point so you had to make up some little side wagon. After all the claims you lost your "scumreads" so you had no one to push (except this case on me you've had since the beginning of the game ).

[ace5993]

for something that happened D1 no less, guess that reason didn't apply when you were on his wagon earlier today

Believe me when I say that, if you bothered to read the game, you would see rather clearly that there was definitely a reason I unvoted CC that happened between my vote and unvote. Try reading and see if you can pick up the pieces yourself because I'm tired of picking up after you because you have the reading comprehension of a five-year old or you are incredibly selective when reading, which is scummy. Reads change.

Of course there was a reason you unvoted, you rolled with a better looking wagon someone else (me in this instance) started. CC (much later) became a town read because of his Maru defense. However that was also why you thought he was town before you voted him, so apparently the reason was only invalid while he looked like the best wagon.

[ace5993]

List said logical thoughts. You say a lot. I’d like a list that has more than 1 on it.

Looking back I suppose there are only two logical thoughts but they've led to many illogical conclusions. This are the main points I have an issue with

Those most likely to be bussing: Starbuck, Ace, Jakalope (at last 1 scum is here for certain)

Those who fairly strongly defended Maru: Twisted, CC (most likely only 1 scum here max)

Those who ignored Maru completely: Chrono, Peregrine (likely scum here also)

Logical thought.

Votes CC (based on no real posted evidence at that point) and has Chrono and Peregrine as leaning town.

Illogical conclusion, you didn't use your wagon analysis to help form your reads at all, you just posted it. The wagon analysis was by far the best part of your original reads post. Also while you claimed to have found stuff on CC during day 2 that made you vote him the only stuff you have pointed out happened after you got on his wagon.

On Wagon (2 players)- Bogre, Starbuck, SleepyKrew, TheJakalope, Chronopie, ace5993
Off Wagon (1 player) – Peregrine, Captian Corp.

Why was Chronopie not in your original "most likely to be bussing? This looks a little like you condensed and switched around your (better) list from earlier to fit with what your reads are.

(On the early RVS wagon)

Just because it was RVS doesn’t make it meaningless.

Logical thought.

Had you compiled one more quick RVS vote on you I’d be almost assured that at least 1 scum was on that wagon for certain.

Attempt to discredit said logical thought because he realized it didn't jive with his reads.

As it stands I’m thinking Starbuck has a good chance to be that scum anyway.

EXTREMELY bad attempt to try to discredit one of his scum reads with a completely invalid reason anyway. Starbuck was first on the RVS wagon and thus didn't contribute to it's forming in the same way as the others.

--------------------------------

It is a Vig shot that is specified to work only on Non-humans per his claim. So how do you expect it to be universally provable?

His vig shot is universally provable because he has a list of all the non-human players. The reason I'm thinking it might not be real/provable is because I suspect it just might coincide with the scum kill.

And IPie’s slot is confirmed Town anyway (100%) via the other portion of his powers. So your continued suspicion of him is another scum-point for you.

Ah now this is wrong. I actually have EXTREME suspicions of his claim - it's basically a nearly confirmed guilty on Maruchan right out of the gate. Why do you think this is a town-use only ability? I could see many uses of it for scum. In addition, if he does have a vig shot (which doesn't confirm him as town either), then doesn't the list just tell him who he can kill?

Aka [ace] is acknowledging that his play is scummy.

Thank you for seeing your error and retracting this post however assuming it

is

true for a moment and I

did

admit that my play was scummy, why is Seraphim admitting his play is scummy not worthy to be mentioned?

Question: there is a better chance of getting me lynched than MoI. According to you. Yet, you're pushing MoI, who as a replacement, no one is really going to vote. A wagon on me already exists. Yet you're pushing MoI. Why?

At first I switched to MoI because your wagon wasn't gaining votes. I wasn't aware replacements are offered a free pass for some reason. If we're on day 2 I'll vote the people who I think are scum. Right now I'm attempting to push both of you, I wasn't aware it mattered who my vote was on unless we got a large wagon on one or the other (two votes isn't very close to a lynch). I wish we could lynch both of you today.

Unvote, Vote: Seraphim

if it makes you happier.

[ace5993]

Eh I'll claim since it's almost deadline. I'm Shaun from Shaun of the Dead, Dedicated Grave Vote Proxier. I know that Ed (also from Shaun of the Dead) is in the game and is voteless. If I die, he gains my vote.

[ace5993]

Eh I'll claim since it's almost deadline. I'm Shaun from Shaun of the Dead, Dedicated Grave Vote Proxier. I know that Ed (also from Shaun of the Dead) is in the game and is voteless. If I die, he gains my vote.

For anyone who is Shaun of the Dead savy ... is Ed a zombie in the movie at any point?

Yes, he becomes a zombie.

[ace5993]

@Mod

: Are the Mafia given fake claims?

Given Maru's claim, we know that they in fact do.

I think this is paraphrased enough, I didn't name my abilities, and i condensed like shit in the explanation of the abilities.[/b]

This makes me think that they're given nameclaims only.

[ace5993]

I'd never thought of it but Ed is NOT confirmed town in my PM. I suppose it's possible he's scum, and taking a vote away from scum because there are more than usual makes sense. The flavor fits (zombie in the movie, but still friends with Shaun).

Sera your plan to lynch me as a test wagon doesn't work because Ed gains his vote when I die so you won't be able to figure out who he is anymore. Looking at the potential Ed people there's no way you'll be able to figure it out from two wagons.

[ace5993]

1. So you knew for certain what was going on Day 1 with Maru not being hammered but didn’t say a single thing about it?
2. You didn’t even question whether Ed, who you have stated ends up a Zombie in the movie, is Town?
3. Arguing flavor = alignment in a Nikanor Theme game? No.

1. Except for that time when I said I had good reason to believe that my vote would be the hammer on Maru? Are we not counting that?
2. No, I didn't.
3. Yes.

As for your "case" that I ignored - Yes I voted TheJakalope, did that really need to be explained further based on what had happened in thread? Admittedly perhaps I should have reiterated what other people had said that I agreed with but it is NOT the same as what you have done with CC because I did not list reasons to make others believe that he was likely to be town. It's not like it came out of the blue because he was on my scum list earlier that day.

BTW, potash is real via... it being real? In the real world? I'm doubting TheJakalope would go "oh yeah, let's fakeclaim a role around potash" when creating a fakeclaim. I don't need to know if it exists in game to confirm that Jakalope isn't lying about his abilities.

The InflatablePie vote - Are you reading my posts? I clearly explained why he was scummy - for approximately the same reasons you are scummy. Which, incidentally, are the same reasons you are trying to push in your case on me (Maru vote aside), albeit using lies and selective reading. Btw if you look more closely you'll see that the first voter on the IPie wagon was on there due to my case (a bit indirectly, but still...).

Til then I'm keeping my vote parked on the now lurking Ace-scum.

Lurking for... 12 hours... overnight? Half of your claims aren't worthy of being responded to because they're flat-out lies.

I'd much prefer

Unvote, Vote: Chronopie

to a no-lynch, myself, or Peregrine.

[ace5993]

@MoI- scum started with 2 humans, a corpse, and a Skeleton, if we go by what Ethos is saying.

EBWOP: Missed this, actually I may be willing to lynch Peregrine pending explanation of this quote.

[ace5993]

Peregrine so what you're saying is TwistedSpoon is scum and was resurrected by CaptainCorporal (who is also scum)?

@Chronopie - What do you mean by "dead bones", as opposed to "alive bones"? When you revive a player do they gain their abilities back or just go to zombie (aka vote back only).

Once again neutral on Chrono's claim, would still lynch atm.

@mod

- Can bones talk in thread?

[ace5993]

I eagerly await Ace’s answer to Seraphim’s question in 694.

Is there any specific way Chronopie's role interacts with Maru's that makes me think they're not both scum? How about TheJakalope's? Note my neutralness/suspicions of every single role except TheJakalope's?

So now Chrono has claimed to be a Resurrecting role. I don’t see Town as likely to have two resurrection roles. Chrono’s claim I find more compelling of the two between CC and Chrono based on the detail of his claim and his crumbs.

This is plausible but what would it matter if Chrono crumbed his claim and CC didn't? I'm fairly sure at this point scum just have nameclaims and most of the roles could really be scum or town so they claim the abilities they have (see Maru's claim). Excessive rolecrumbing is certainly NOT a towntell, once would be enough (please tell me you caught those crumbs before Chrono claimed), and zero is nothing to be concerned about. Have you crumbed your role FOUR times MoI? (That's rhetoric by the way, just to preempt the LOLROLEFISH claims). Also setup speculation is valid here but not with Jakalope/Maru or me/Ed? Looks like we're switching trademarks here - nice Cognitive Dissonance™.

His weak-ass “I’m Shuan of the dead who grants my vote to ‘Ed’ when I die’ is so bare-bones compared to every other claim it couldn’t be more clear it was fake.

Oh yeah it's totally fake because I made it so obvious I had no idea what was going on with the hammer yesterday. NEW RULE EVERYONE NEEDS 46 DIFFERENT POWERS FOR THEIR CLAIM TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY, EVEN IF THE POWER WAS CRUMBED AND EXPLAINS PREVIOUS HAPPENINGS IN THE GAME. Are you fucking serious? It's one thing to say I'm scum but how can you possibly think I'm lying about my powers? What's the alternative scenario?

@Debate about Ed's human/other status - I don't think he's a corpse as when I die he gains a vote and I'm pretty sure corpses

cannot

vote.

[ace5993]

Of course excessive role-crumbing isn’t a Town-tell … it certainly isn’t a scum-tell either. But certainly combined with a provable claim (ability to move Corpse to Bones and Ressurect Bones) I find it interesting that you dismiss it immediately. That was one of the reasons you believe in Jak’s claim so much.

I believe everyone's claims so far (with the possible exception of Ethos's vig shot), from memory I do not remember TheJakalope having tons of breadcrumbs.

The other was that his role conflicted with Maru’s. And wouldn’t you know … Chrono’s claim does also (deprives Maru of Bones to use via Resurrection). But you are unsurprisingly taking an inconsistent position regarding Chrono’s claim.

Except for that part where he can also turn corpses into bones.

[ace5993]

You guys are 12 hours off, deadline's come and gone.

To get stuff in before the day ends:

Peregrine's uber-late (even with the fact that he got the deadline wrong) push for a deadline lynch is REALLY bad, and +1 to SKrew above.

I'm still 100% sure Seraphim is scum and he should have been lynched as soon as I caught the daytalk thing but w/e. The pool for the last two scum is Ethos, MoI, Chronopie, and "Ed".

[ace5993]

Oops, I didn't know that count in Nikanor's post was running In any case, you should all come back to the Chrono wagon because Chrono lynch > no lynch > my lynch.

[ace5993]

An unfortunate end, especially since I think it could have gone either way.

Hello ace5993. You are

Reimu Hakurei

[

from Touhou 8: Imperishable Night

], Dedicated Grave Vote Proxier

.

You are a

Human

. If you die, you will become a

Corpse

.

Active Abilities

None.

Passive Abilities

Border between life and death (1):

If you die, Yukari Yakumo will become Human.

Factional Abilities

Fantasy orb (T):

You may attempt to kill any player. Your kill flavour is "emballmed".

Fakeclaim:

Provide me with a role name and/or abilities and I will write a fakeclaim for you. A pre-written fakeclaim is included below.

Meeting room:

You may speak in the Mafia QT at any time.

Win Condition:

You win when the town has been eliminated, or when nothing can prevent the same from happening.

Mafia Members

InflatablePie -

Ash Williams

[

from Evil Dead

], Two-Shot Day/Night Undead-Killing Census Taker
Maruchan -

Bonerdagon

[

from Kingdom of Loathing

], Bones-Killing Bones-Absorber
ace5993 -

Reimu Hakurei

[

from Touhou 8: Imperishable Night

], Dedicated Grave Vote Proxier
Bogre -

Yukari Yakumo

[

from Touhou 8: Imperishable Night

], Dedicated Vote Thief

Hello ae5993. You are

Shaun

[

from Shaun of the Dead

], Dedicated Grave Vote Proxier

.

You are a

Human

. If you die, you will become a

Corpse

.

Active Abilities

None.

Passive Abilities

A friend in need... (1):

You know that Ed is in the game, and lacks a vote. If you die, Ed will gain a vote.

Factional Abilities

Win Condition:

You win when the mafia has been eliminated.

The game thread is here. Please confirm by PM.

[ace5993]

We missed our kill D1 because none of us knew that it was a twilight kill.

And your scum kill is marked as a (T) ability in each of your role PMs. I did not think that my expectation that at least one of the four mafiosi would read his role PM was very high, but I guess it was.

>_>

[ace5993]

Needless to say, it was a very frustrating game when we were losing kills because of unexplained twilight-ness.

Again ... you lost one kill Day 1. That's all.

Why didn't you flip poltergiest? If you used your 'I'm Human Now' ability why didn't Ace show up as a Poltergiest / turn to ash?

It was my ability - when I died Bogre became human.