Mini 1246 - Bizarro Mafia: ...Mate! Who won?

[TehBrawlGuy]

RQS!
1)
Of fire and ice, I proceed.
From my cage I have been freed.
The cage of flesh and bone,
with what I once forbode.

What was in your cage?

2) Some prefer logic, others their gut, how say you?

3) Are you one who anticipates the enemy move, or one who reacts to the enemy's moves?

4) In a world where you could never be critisized for being wrong (because no one would know that you are wrong) would you lie more often than normal? Would you speak your mind/do things more than normal?

Gotta go for now, but when I get back, I'll analyze the mechanics more.

1) Magic.

2) Gut to tell who I should spend my time using more of my logic on, logic to tell which of those people are Scum.

3) The former.

4) Depends on why they'd never know I was wrong, really. I would probably lie less as a deity figure to set an example, but if it was just some sort of logic-warp I'd probably lie more. I'm pretty used to speaking my mind anyway, so I doubt I'd do that more.

RQS!
1)
Of fire and ice, I proceed.
From my cage I have been freed.
The cage of flesh and bone,
with what I once forbode.

What was in your cage?

2) Some prefer logic, others their gut, how say you?

3) Are you one who anticipates the enemy move, or one who reacts to the enemy's moves?

4) In a world where you could never be critisized for being wrong (because no one would know that you are wrong) would you lie more often than normal? Would you speak your mind/do things more than normal?

Gotta go for now, but when I get back, I'll analyze the mechanics more.

1:

I

was in my cage. I don't know what you were describing, but it was in it's cage, not mine.
2: Logic, but gut is easier. I prefer Logic from others.
3: I anticipate. I write out scenarios and go, "Well, if we massclaim now, then this, this, this, or this could happen. If X is scum and this happens, then Y is definitely town, but if" And go through every plausible scenario. Somepony else said something about how you can't Not react to what happens, and that's true. But I like to try to plan/think ahead. I also make sure it's out in the open so everypony can benefit from it.
4: I don't even know how to react to this. If I could not be wrong, I would be far more sure of myself. But I know that some of the appeal of lying is the idea that you have to be able to get away with it.
The way you pose the question, I picture myself dressed in a gold toga and an olive wreath and eating grapes and I am ceasar of the world and everypony is waiting in a loooong, single-file line to ask me a question and since I know everything apparently (or I can never be considered to be wrong), I answer all their questions and they revere me for it.


There you go, there's your stupid frickin' Rqs.

As far as #1, I assumed you were in the cage with whatever it was. How I got to magic: By the proceeding of ice and fire, there's clearly a mystical element, and it was something forbidden. Think alchemy for anyone who's played Golden Sun.

Personally, I'm glad we have this RQS. It lets you know people better. Not only is that good because it feels like you're playing with friends, but it makes analyzing people a lot easier. i.e. if someone's clearly a jokester, you can factor in that when they've shifted votes for joke reasons in RVS a lot.

hiplop it's not an interrogation bro. Why don't you like being questioned? Is it that you don't like being under scrutiny? DO YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO HIDE HIPLOP?!?!??1!??!ELEVEN

Dammit, you beat me to it.

I am against pseudo-voting for someone until the kill is done by the Mafia. Voting clearly identify the danger for the scum. We have to work without in order to set-up a clean field for the PR to work with. Once the kill is done and provided that the PR didn't die, we can work on agreeing upon the Night Lynch.

What do you think that ?

Why not push your biggest gut Town tell to ensure they live, then? Too risky/scummy looking if you get called out before you can reveal it yourself? Biggest Town tell not town enough to justify said risk?

Nope, unless you're really terrible at reacting.

If you're doing anything right, you should already have considered all the possible moves they could make and an appropriate response so that you can leap into action with after only minor tweaking to your plans as the situation demands

This. See: Xanatos Speed Chess.

Tracking is related to the people accomplishing the action, thus it doesn't matter which person the scum is likely to kill because what matters for the tracker is who is gonna make the kill. Giving your reads is fine, pseudo-voting is not because when you can express your reads on many people, you can only vote for one which clearly pinpoint the danger for the scum and manipulate that to their liking.

The tracker has to pick a target before the scum and that's a hindrance, but likewise the scum has to decide which townie to kill. That's a race against time between town PRs and scum and when we are before the kill, we shouldn't vote.

Then vote a Towntell to manipulate the goddamn kill. Lying as Town is perfectly acceptable if you do it right, the problem's simply that it's dangerous if it goes wrong.

But HOW people vote also helps determine who is the most suspicious. For instance, what if someone thinks YOU are the most townie player in the game and I'VE now decided I'm voting for you. Well, wow, NOW the tracker has someone they find suspicious to track! People just giving their reads isn't enough, VOTES are what matter Oto. How we use our ONE vote is what is important in the grand scheme of things. Reads don't mean ANYTHING by comparison.

Can you not caps words you're emphasizing? It makes it more difficult to read. italics or bold is better.

I was very, very close to voting Otolia, but I've re-read and I like him well enough.

I originally thought he was wrong on not voting, but he's actually right this point. Mafia random killing > mafia killing someone who looks Town. Voting definitely does pinpoint who is or isn't seen as scummy - it's why we always vote normally. Depriving the mafia of that information make their kill closer to a random kill. Tracker choice is essentially wine between whether mafia will pick a more ProTown scum to kill, thinking tracker will track a suspicion of his, or a scummier player, thinking tracker will assume that they wouldn't do that. Doctor is better with ProTown players, but it's certainly up for debate whether forcing a less informed mafia kill is better. Set-up speculation in the first pages is the best thing (or one of the) you can do, really.

Meta argument after 3 pages is obv. bullshit, and deserved to be called as such unless you want it to break RVS, and I hate meta arguments anyway.

Don't really like any vote at this point, would like to see VE v. Otolia pan out.
VE's #81 is correct, but so is Otolia's #88. VE's obv. trying to alpha male the Town, but whether that's because he's on a "I've caught Scum" drive, or because he's Scum himself I'm not sure.

[TehBrawlGuy]

EBWOP: I hate when I proofread my post, send it, and then see two errors. >_>

[TehBrawlGuy]

moar sheeping of me plz

I will sheep the shit out of you if you don't post content.

[TehBrawlGuy]

fake vote on mozanbi

Can we get a fake hammer in here?

....do you people have some confusion with what content is?

[TehBrawlGuy]

I fake don't even fake know what the fake votecount is up to, but fake you should be fake voting him so that he's one fake step closer to fake lynch.

Fake you.

but seriously i will ride you until you post content

[TehBrawlGuy]

Fake you.

but seriously i will ride you until you post content

Cute.
You do that. In my myriad games that I have played, I am know for crumbling quickly under pressure, so keep it up and you'll be sure to get results.


In other news, pretending to have reads could easily influence a kill as well.

...So you're not posting content for fear of influencing the kill? Why not try to influence it in your favor?

[TehBrawlGuy]

Not sure I like the idea of just sitting around wating for the scum kill. Isn't that a bit like voting for a No LYnch in a normal game?
We have a chance (a small one, like in a norma day one game) of lynching scum before their kill.
Haaaaang on. Whilst typing this, realised we can't lynch scum until after they make akill anyway.
Sorry.
But lets not put too much hope in our PR's -we have only a doc and a tracker after all.

@ MOD: COULD YOU CONFIRM THIS OFFICIALLY?

I'm not sure what I should be officially confirming. I think you found the open setup post.

The difference is essentially if we want Scum to have a N0 kill or a daykill during D1. I prefer the former, but it's ruined at this point, so I think going for phase momentum is our best option now.

Can someone more familiar with MS (

Mod?

) clarify if actions are locked when sent? Where I normally play, you can change actions during Nightphase. If that's also the case here., it's clearly best to have the PRs submit any target now, and change it later if they get the chance.

I suppose that varies from mod to mod. The people submitting actions in this game may PM me if they need clarification of the rules regarding this matter.

[TehBrawlGuy]

Placate town? sure. If town is happy & satisfied with me, What have I to fear?

No, I'll give you my reads if you want them.

I'm not PR hunting. Jesus christ. I get a read, I think it's a PR. Obviously I didn't out it.

And it's not as simple as, "Who is the townie?" Scum will want to NOT kill scummy townies. If I say who my scum suspect is and it's a townie, then the nightkill will not go there, and there is created Wifom and NK speculation (more Wifom).

Oh, mafia endgaming us, maybe?

And if you can direct the scum NK via claiming someone is suspect, why not claim that on someone you think is town? If that's wine, then why not out your true suspicion so we can get things going? Either or is better than being useless, really. This is somewhat hypocritical of me, since I have nothing more than minor reads atm, but it is a valid point.

[TehBrawlGuy]

lol no worries
I still don't really understand that point -when all is said and done, scum will kill today. (barring lucky doc). So what "no night kill" has to do with it I don't know.

Not no night kill, Night Zero night kill. Essentially, in a standard game, would you rather Scum get a kill as soon as the game starts, or get a kill to use during the Day? (we'll assume doc protects for a full phase and tracker would be able to track his target for a full phase as well) One is the Scum getting a random NK, the other is them getting an informed NK to use on whoever's the most ProTown.

Anyway, I know TK offsite, so I'm gonna go bug him to post here.

[TehBrawlGuy]

lol no worries
I still don't really understand that point -when all is said and done, scum will kill today. (barring lucky doc). So what "no night kill" has to do with it I don't know.

Not no night kill, Night Zero night kill. Essentially, in a standard game, would you rather Scum get a kill as soon as the game starts, or get a kill to use during the Day? (we'll assume doc protects for a full phase and tracker would be able to track his target for a full phase as well) One is the Scum getting a random NK, the other is them getting an informed NK to use on whoever's the most ProTown.

Anyway, I know TK offsite, so I'm gonna go bug him to post here.

1) stop the setup speculation, that phase is done, and we should have PRs send in actions before kills

2) DO NOT PROD TK OFFSITE, IT IS AGAINST SITE RULES I MADE THE SAME MISTAKE IN MY FIRST GAME ON THIS SITE AS WELL DONT DO IT YOU COULD GET MODKILLED

1) I was clarifying my answer to a question I was asked during that phase.

2) Oh. Hope our mod's willing to let that slide.

If I had to pick a scum, it would probably be Mozamis.

You DO have to pick scum, assuming you're a town playing towards their win condition. That would be enough to gain my suspicion, and likely a vote, but the post that came before this one is even worse in my opinion.

Except for the fact that we couldn't even vote at that point. I know I certainly didn't have a Scum picked out then. I'm still deciding as of typing this, actually, although I'm leaning Darox.

As far as TK, and I hate to defend him if he is Scum, but he's in like 7 games atm and his lack of posting is most likely temporary. I do agree that he's being too passive, though I can't tell if that's because he's too busy to do stuff or if he's Scum.

Well damn, no wonder you two are getting your panties in a wad about me. There is nothing out there to go on so you do have to do some major reaching. The first four pages are full of pure garbage. Its setup speculation and RQS bullshit that does NOTHING to the town except have Junpei look like a massive patronizer. Are like some sort of psychiatrist now? Why not hand out Rorschach tests while youre at it Junpei? What kind of secret voodoo bullshit were you trying to uncover in four pages of uselessness? All you accomplished is causing a delay before the game actually started. You allowed the scum to setup their first kill without any pressure. Now the pressure is on the town. No wonder youre so desperate to come after me. All you have done so far is waste the towns time with bullshit RQS and bullshit reads.

Pads andga Junpei have crowned themselves Royal White Knight Defenders of the Town. Apparently if you dont do what they say or you dont do what they like you will be branded as heretic scum and sent to the vote gallows or something. I wouldnt be surprised if one of them two is secretly scum. Scum LOVE to hide as White Knights so that they can direct the town in their own twisted means in a form that they believe is above suspicion. They are also notorious for going after lurkers since they cant control lurkers.

I only feel that I have to explain that due to some of the craptacular reads that people are using to find scum. I wasnt kidding about the junior comment. Its like Lord of the Flies the way some of you are turning into this junior overachiever viciousness that youre spouting. Maybe its paranoia over the different game mechanics. Waffling? WTF? Moz was the only one that stood out at the time, I pointed it out. How the fuck is that waffling? I didnt promise a vote, I didnt promise persecution. I pointed out that Moz was trying really hard at probably playing some leader role. Ahh, no wonder you stomped that down real quick. There is always a White Knight and it wasnt going to be Moz, It was going to be Pads and his junior partner Junpei.


The fact they they (and MOZ!) want to go after a lurker with only two posts (ThirdKoopa) is HUGE and is something that shouldnt be overlooked.

Moz's ISO still looks horrible. A bunch of treading water and playing the role of Captain Obvious.
Viscera is also treading water and posting obvious bullshit.

Hiplop is simply useless. Im curious to know why the White Knight Dynamic Duo arent all up in his ass.

I know who im voting for, but im not going to say who the first day as I dont want to influence anyone's votes, like the scum would want. Scum thsi game will want to make huge public declarations on who they want dead so that the sheep townies will follow. A Scum White Knight in this game is going to do serious damage.

I prefer to keep the votes undeclared, at least day 1. Youre going to get more information from possible scum voting blocks from the reveal tomorrow than these big public executions. Scum know this. Scum are TERRIFIED of this. If scum dont know how townies are going to vote, who would they vote for? Do they jump in two together on someone? Do they spread the votes out? So much information is going to be present tomorrow, but its all going down the toilet if we let the scum manipulate our votes during the day.

A vote count and the subsequent kill is going to give us a shit ton more information than some far reaching bullshit reads are every going to give.

I don't like the fearmongering on any form of leadership.

I'd like to hear from

ThirdKoopa

,

Wasabi

and

TehBrawlGuy

. You guys have been awfully quiet.

Topics you could discuss : Darox's elusive Behavior, your own absence, who you like to vote for, the reasons Whiskers was killed and so on.

What?

I've been pretty active before the kill, but to due being busy on Saturday as well as getting a new vidya game, my time's been taken up. Whiskers kill analysis seems like it would devolve into pure wine.


I'm not going to comment on anything further, since it's 3 A.M. in my timezone and I'm too tired. Will do so sometime tomorrow.

[TehBrawlGuy]

TehBrawlGuy, you're saying that your only scum read is a 'leaning' on Darox?

No. I was saying I was leaning Darox for best scum read. I didn't list anything more, because I didn't feel like posting anything more, thanks to how tired I got.

My other main Scum read would be IS, because of posts like this:

Day 1
Junpei: Everyone lynch X!!!
(scum jumps on the X wagon, remain invisible)

Day 2
Junpei: Oh... it was Y! Lynch Y!!!
(scum jumps on Y)

Good luck finding scum that way.

Really, phases in normal games with intelligent players don't end up like that, this wouldn't either. I do agree not listing our votes is the best option,

so long as you list suspicions

. If suspicions aren't listed, VCA gets heavily nerfed.

I also have a gut feeling that Otolia v. VE earlier in the phase wasn't Town v. Town.

Darox/IS (since I'm not going to announce my vote) > VE IMO.

[TehBrawlGuy]

I think it means that someone who has proven good at finding scum in past games

As if they need that. No, you just have to make people think you're good. A good way would be, say, having a 2002 join date. Automatic assumption of calm, rock solid Glorkitude.

I took your use of it to mean that the burden of proficiency would be on yourself (and no one else, because we're all bad) and your lack of scum hunting and finding at the time was certain or likely to cause the town to be suspect of you.

Nah, just most of you.

Pssh. Join dates can die. I once invited a friend of mine over to another forum I play at, and despite being brand new to the site, he managed to control the whole game until his death via copping.

I've been playing for 2 and a half years, yet my join date is like this month.

[TehBrawlGuy]

Only 3 votes?

Why? People who didn't give reasoning need to now.

[TehBrawlGuy]

Hey nice work guys! Right I'm sheeping ace for the rest of the game lets hope that wasn't some bizarre bus lol

With how much IS fearmongered our 'white knights', I wouldn't be surprised. Ace still gets a bunch of Town points, but I'm not even close to writing him off as obv. town yet.

Darox and Hiplop are still dead weight. They are why I love games with vigils in them. Darox would at least be entertaining if he had douchebag play down well, but alas....

[TehBrawlGuy]

I am in three games with IS.
Everything he got attacked for was playstyle rather than alignment.
Cry me a river.

His normal playstyle is to fearmonger anyone trying to lead? I doubt that.



I'm going to side with Pads here. I actually had a feeling we would ML yesterday. It just seemed far too convenient that ISMaf would slip that hard, and also that he'd get pushed so much by what was essentially everyone save Hiplop/Darox. (this is part of the reason why I still don't trust Ace 100%) Bottom line is that you simply can't not support a lynch on that, though, or else you devolve into wine.

@Pads: It's relevant. If you can show how he was scummy before IS's flip, it gives a reason for you to have not been on IS wagon. My unwillingness to vote you is based on faith that you can do that. If you can't, I very well might vote you today.

[TehBrawlGuy]

His normal playstyle is to fearmonger anyone trying to lead? I doubt that.

I see someone who hasn't played with IS before.

Can someone else who's played with IS verify?

I'm going to side with Pads here. I

actually had a feeling we would ML yesterday. It just seemed far too convenient that ISMaf would slip that hard, and also that he'd get pushed so much by what was essentially everyone save Hiplop/Darox.

(this is part of the reason why I still don't trust Ace 100%) Bottom line is that

you simply can't not support a lynch on that, though, or else you devolve into wine.

TehBrawlGuy voted IS, and the bold shows that he didn't really feel that he was mafia after all. The underlined shows that he is making up some excuse for this that is in no way valid.

I felt he was possible maf, but yes, I had a bad gut feeling that it was just too easy for someone to seem that scummy on D1 and actually be Scum. You and I both know when D1 lynches are largely unopposed, it's a terrible omen for the flip. I got that same vibe from ISLynch.

As for the underlined, I'm simply saying I stuck with IS vote because logic > gut. What was I gonna do, go "Hey guys, IS looks far too scummy to be scum, we should daroxwagon"? No, because that would be a /desk play. I was and am not going to let the scummiest player by logic get a pass because the particulars of his lynch raise my hairs.

TehBrawlGuy, you're saying that your only scum read is a 'leaning' on Darox?

No. I was saying I was leaning Darox for best scum read. I didn't list anything more, because I didn't feel like posting anything more, thanks to how tired I got.

My other main Scum read would be IS

Oh look, his strongest scum read was Darox.

Note how I'm using past tense in that post. He

was

my best Scum read as of my #175, but as of my #193, that changed. Would you rather I stay ambiguous about my vote, or would you rather I broadcast

Hey, I'm voting IS!

to Scum? I don't think the VCA we have would've been as useful had I done the latter.

Well I don't see how you could say that Ace when we are talking about, quite literally, 18 posts difference. Also "my OTHER MAIN scum read" implies that Darox is still a main scum read, why not vote him instead?

I'll look at pads now.

pedit: Otolia, that is just going to create a situation where there are 2 main BWs and scum get to choose which is better, which is the issue you attempted to address.

...maybe because I found IS more suspicious? I even addressed one of his posts in my #175 and said I didn't like it, it's not as if I did some crazy about-face on him. Also, look at the part where I say I'm not addressing anything more due to being tired.

As far as the 18 post gap, note how in my #193 I quote a post IS made within those 18 as what's really giving me the scumread.

[TehBrawlGuy]

I hate doing this because it telegraphs my vote, but oh well.

Darox needs to die. He's useless and scummy, and regardless of your opinion on Pads, Pads is actually active and contributing. In the event we ML, Darox ML is much less disruptive to Town than Pads ML. I would also rate Darox as the scummier of the two. I'm not going to talk about Pads for the sake of keeping my D3 vote under wraps, but Darox lynch is far better imo.

[TehBrawlGuy]

That's a disgusting post.

"Hey guys, let's mislynch this guy first! I think he's got more traction and then we can mislynch Pads tomorrow P.S. I'm going to keep my vote free floating so that I can reverse my position any time I want with repercussion!"

I know who I'm voting for.

I love how you only point out how I'm not wanting to announce my vote when I'm pushing you. It's not as if I haven't been drilling that in the whole game, no.

And as Junpei said, I'm locked in for today, so I think that makes up for it. I hardly doubt you have more traction, the momentum I've seen is on Pads .

What I meant: "Useless scummy person is a better lynch than useful scummy person. If you're like Ace and think both are scummy, Darox is a better pick to go first. I personally think Darox is more scummy anyway, but I don't know if any of you do to, and I'd rather the wagon be on the person who's I think is contributing less and is scummier. "

Does the IS lynch mean nothing? I'm curious as to why the Town points I imagine I got from that > one post. I'm also curious as to your projected scumbuddy for me.

[TehBrawlGuy]

Fun fact:
Hiding your vote at this point is a terrible idea.

Do you remember why I was fighting for non-disclosure D1?
No of course you don't. You didn't get it even while it was happening. But do you remember me talking about that and you fumbling the mental ball?

The reasons for why we should have done that is to give the scum the opportunity to out themselves through a voting bloc. Now that this plan has been trampled by a herd of screaming elephants and everybody knows, we don't have any reason to hide our votes. Because doing so lets the scum, who still have a greater influence on the lynch than any of us, push whatever lynch they want free of charge.

P.S. There's no such thing as useful scum. Keeping someone you think is scummy (More scummy even) alive over someone else just because they are polite and spouting mouth words is a disconnect from winning the game.

Also, the worst part of your post "regardless of your feelings on Pads"
Let's just sliiiiiiiiiiide that animosity towards Pads over onto Darox, can't be losing another scumbuddy.

Scum wagoning together and pushing a lynch? You know what that sounds like to me? A voting bloc. Besides, the reality is that they have to express suspicion beforehand unless they want to be thrust into the spotlight ala Pads, so they can't just vote whoever they want.

P.S. I never said there was. I said useful scummy. Scummy =/= scum. Scummy players can and will flip Town. If the scumminess between two players is minimal, taking out the person who's more useful will be much worse if they flip town.

Think about it. If the prize for winning a random roll was $10, would you rather bet $10 that you'd hit a 5/10 chance, or bet $5 you'd hit a 4/10? That's what I'm talking about. If someone thinks Pads is only very slightly more scummy than you are, you're our better option, because you're the one whom we lose less from if you're Town. This is irrelevant for me, since I think you're a better pick for Scum in the first place. Bottom line is that with a good lynch on D1, Town is in the lead. I don't want this lead lost. We mislynch Pads, Ace eats a NK, and then it's suddenly just me and Junpei doing big things in the thread. That possible future is unnerving to me, especially so if Junpei is Scum. So long as we don't let this thing stagnate, we're in good shape.

And yes, regardless of how you feel, he's active and posting content. You can't deny that. You can't deny that he's an asset to Town content-wise if he himself is Town.

Also, way to 180 on Pads. Now he's my scumbuddy when

you just said he was Town two posts ago.

That's a disgusting post.

"Hey guys, let's mislynch this guy first! I think he's got more traction and then

we can mislynch Pads tomorrow

P.S. I'm going to keep my vote free floating so that I can reverse my position any time I want with repercussion!"

I know who I'm voting for.

Also, answer the questions I asked in my #268.

[TehBrawlGuy]

I voted for Darox because I didn't find him very town, and there were no other good options. He was the clear lynch, so I piled my vote on to make sure it went through.

Why would I bus Darox in this situation? I don't know why I would when I could justify my vote elsewhere.

...because he's the obvious lynch? As far as I'm concerned, whether you were on him or not matters little. What's really going to find us scum is looking back at how people interacted with Darox D1/early D2.

What worries me is if TK is the last Scum. We have literally nothing to go on and could be chasing our tails. Really, though, this is likely GG town win. We have 3 lynches left, and there's 4 real Scum picks alive, Junpei, VE, Hiplop, and TK. All we need to do is figure out which one is Town. I suppose maybe Wasabi could be maf, I don't see how Ace is drawing obv. Town off him.

[TehBrawlGuy]

how the fuck am i a scum pick

You've done jack shit all game.

Personally, I see no reason to TK lynch over Hiplop lynch. Both are useless and unreadable, but we might get a sub for TK.

[TehBrawlGuy]

eh ive just been lazy, can be pretty useful when TRYING plz dont leave me

I don't even think you're serious at this point.

If by some chance you are, start trying NOW.

[TehBrawlGuy]

Basically what VE said. TownJunpei should just be quiet, tell us to lynch Ace, take the lynch, and that's that. Between the amount of struggle you're putting in, and the fact that you are really just tunneling Ace.......

[TehBrawlGuy]

read fucking junpeis final words, it explains eveything pretty damn clearly. One of ace/junpei was scum, and you're oblivious to this fact and its making me ANGRY

He's explaining how he's going to kill off that guy after you. I would be elated at this if I were town, not pissed. I would be pissed if I was Scum, though.

Anyway, what Ace said. I'm not terribly motivated right now, considering I think Hiplop's our last scum. Expect re-read if I'm in MYLO.

[TehBrawlGuy]

Posting because I was prodded, would like to withhold my opinion on Ace V. VE until post kill.

[TehBrawlGuy]

Yeah. I get pretty strong townvibes from him.

[TehBrawlGuy]

I've been silent because I don't want to say "Oh, I think ACE/VE is scum". If I'm guessing wrong, whoever the scum is can kill off Mozamis (or moza can kill off the other of ace/ve if he's scum), and we've got GG scum win, because I'm not going to factor in the kill wine. If I'm right, then I'm a fantastic scum kill. It's lose/lose. I'm more than happy looking scummy at this point, at least now if I'm right I'm not an obvious NK.

Can we NL, or what? I don't like lynching in MYLO when all 3 other players are potential scum. Mozamis' town read is evaporating, sadly. Being hardcore against VE, and then flipping to me right as Ace declares he isn't voting VE looks really odd to me. I suppose you could say the same about me if I end up voting him, but this is from my PoV, obviously. The townishness tone in his posts that I saw isn't there anymore as well.

vote tehrawlguy

Don't like his "I get strong town vibes from Moz" comment, and his done very little scum hunting all game.

...Except for Darox, who kinda flipped Scum.

I'm going to re-read this and give you all thoughts since you're getting troubled.

[TehBrawlGuy]

In several occasions that I've played elsewhere, after a maf win, Town has complained about how terribly Town played and that Scum got lucky, etc., while Scum counter with "But making Town misplay is what we do!". Games like this are why I'm usually complaining with Town after those games. Occasionally, someone will just play amazing Scum and fool us all into a well deserved Scum win. Ace did that for sure. GG Scum.

[TehBrawlGuy]

Doing more in that period would direct scum, no doubt. It's why Town doesn't talk during Night, even when it's allowed. That plus the 48 hours to vote after discussion stops (which imo should be removed if similar set-ups are ever hosted) meant we had functionally 4+ days of Night to 3 days of Day.