Mini 1251 - Hitchhiker's Mafia - Game Over

[hasdgfas]

/cownfirm

[hasdgfas]

vote: Umbrage

This is a serious vote.

[hasdgfas]

@Hasdgfas What's the basis?

I'll explain later. More votes on Umbrage.

[hasdgfas]

hey Umbrage, it's not RVS, I actually want to lynch you. Answer the question.

Also, do you have a link to a game where you were town?

[hasdgfas]

So, hasdgfas, by any chance did you skim 80's Mafia? I was watching that game myself.

nope. should I have?

Did you really think the vote was serious are do you just want to believe so? Hasdgfas has not yet supplied the reason for his vote, so how did you come to the conclusion that it was serious?

Because I said it was serious in my first post.

[hasdgfas]

hey Umbrage, it's not RVS, I actually want to lynch you. Answer the question.

Also, do you have a link to a game where you were town?

1) Bite me.
2) Wiki. I happen to be an excellent town player, FYI. I single-handily won Paranoia Mafia. I've already explained my actions for 80s Mafia, if that's what this is about, take it to the Blacklist thread. It's pretty simple, be civil to me, I'll be civil to you. OK?

What is with all this talk about 80s mafia? I have no idea what the big deal with that is.
The reason I asked you for one is so you could give me one you felt was a good one to look at instead of one where you were terrible. Should that be Paranoia?

[hasdgfas]

Right...

Well, I suppose it's as good a reason as any, at this stage. Oh, and before I forget:

UNVOTE: LunitaWolf

As we're out of RVS.

vote Lupus Vega

for this post.

[hasdgfas]

also

unvote umbrage

The initial vote was entirely to try to get a bandwagon so I could see how Umbrage acted under pressure, but that appears to have fizzled

[hasdgfas]

@Hasdgfas (your name is hard to type!) Why the interest in a town game of Umbrage's?

A) You can use "hascow" or "cow" for my name if you like. It's easier to type
B) I was interested in looking for differences from the scum game of his that I modded

vote: sorgster

because his vote on me smells of "trying to look town".

[hasdgfas]

Sheeping isn't a scumtell. Is there anything else on Isa?

[hasdgfas]

unvote vega

I don't want a quick hammer.

^town post btw

I actually find it way more of a "trying to look town" post.

[hasdgfas]

He gives Isa a pass for sheeping but claims Sorgster is trying to look town because what exactly? Right nothing. Sorgster is defending himself and making cases. Unvoting to prevent a quick lynch is not "trying to look town" and the last person who made a statement like that in a game I was in was scum. Please die.

You're joking, right? You have to be joking. There's no way this is serious. You can unvote to prevent a quick lynch without actually saying "I don't want a quickhammer". It's the same as "yay we lynched scum" or "good job doc!". Everyone knows why you're doing it or that it was a good thing. Stating it is just trying to get townie brownie points.

[hasdgfas]

So you are saying I should unvote without giving a reason?

As I said. Everyone knows why you're doing it.

[hasdgfas]

Cow is letting a person slide by on sheeping, while saying another is doing something for town brownie points. How is that a case? Why give an excuse to someone that does something that doesn't progress the town, but put a newb in strawman by saying what he doing is just trying to look town. Plus Cow ignored his Sorgsters case. There is a few other things that bother me about cow as well.

Sheeping progresses the town though. Bandwagons help the town because they give us more information. I also asked what else was scummy about Isa, because I'm curious if there's more than just sheeping.

I've seen people say it before and be town.
Your point is invalid

Considering everyone gave Qua and Sorg shit for unvoting the first place also shows your reasoning as crap.

Town or scum can do anything. That's a terrible counter-argument. I've seen town lie about their role, does that mean it's not a scumtell in most cases?

I don't understand the last line here. Could you explain it please?

[hasdgfas]

@Lupus: What do you think of me?
what do you think of farside?
what do you think of sorgster?

[hasdgfas]

Only if that player is town. The player could be scum, actively lurking and pushing a town wagon. How do you know which it is without info?

Exactly. That's my entire point. I want to know if there's more of a case on Isa than "sheeping".

That means the argument is null. Not OMG he is scum.
Your counter argument is worse.

So lying about your role is a null tell also?

Sorgaster just got a wagon due to him unvoting and saying nothing in game when he unvoted. I can understand why he would state a reason for unvoting because he was looked at as scummy doing it the first time

that was Lupus, and it was a completely different situation.

[hasdgfas]

Top of Page Vote Count

5 - sorgster (The Rufflig, André, hasdgfas, benoni, Lunitawolf)
4 - Lupus Vega (hasdgfas, André, TheFool, Isa)
4 - Quaroath (Lunitawolf, Isa, TheFool, Unknown)
2 - benoni (sorgster, farside22)
2 - Isa (Umbrage, sorgster)
1 - farside22 (benoni)
1 - hasdgfas (farside22)
1 - The Rufflig (Unknown)

Not Voting (2) - Lupus Vega, Quaroath

---

In short Cow

you focused only on a small part of the case on Isa, then asked what else there was, when all you had to do was read what was said. Why did you focus only on the one part and not the rest?

Because I couldn't see it, even with a re-read. It just wasn't getting into my thick skull

[hasdgfas]

In short Cow

you focused only on a small part of the case on Isa, then asked what else there was, when all you had to do was read what was said. Why did you focus only on the one part and not the rest?

Because I couldn't see it, even with a re-read. It just wasn't getting into my thick skull

So why in your view is Sorgster "trying to look town"? Instead of just unvoting so there is no hammer? Because he explained his unvote....when he already got shit for unvoting before? You think he knows the difference?
Why?

Almost none of his posts have felt like town posts to me. That's all there is to it. It's really all I have to go on at this point, but it's the best I have to go on. He doesn't feel town,

@Cow: Also I will point out that what Isa stated about Qua is hypocritical. Telling someone to say more when all your doing is sheeping isn't exactly a winning case. Plus if your going to call out Sorgster for "trying to look town" is Isa not doing the same with showing concern that Sorgster was unwrongly at L-1?

I'm asking you what the differences are and why you called out one over the other.

Because one looked like town saying "hey guys, look out" when not everyone might realize that he was at L-1(or actually L-2 as it was) and one was just an unvote saying "I don't want a quickhammer". In addition, Isa said more in that post than just warning everyone about sorgster's status. It wasn't a lot more, but there was an attempt to get more information by asking someone else a question. That's a massive difference from "unvote because quickhammer is bad".

Quite honestly, a lot of this is feel. It's not always logical, but mafia's not a purely logical game, you have to read people and go on feel sometimes, and I felt like sorgster's was scummy and Isa's wasn't.

[hasdgfas]

Ok farside, here we go:

first:

Vote Hasdg

He has been trying to get someone lynched right away from rvs with no reason to.

Should I even explain this? I will anyway. Not only had I already explained what I was doing, making his post just completely wrong, it's a terrible reason. It's a classic "this looks easy" vote that he'd think nobody would jump on him for because I had been acting a bit weird at first.

That means I'm pretty much going to die I assume.

This is not a town post in the slightest. Town fights the whole way. They don't say "well, looks like I'm dead"

unvote vega

I don't want a quick hammer.

already explained this

So what you are saying is you won't contribute anything usefu to the town.

Vote Isa

This is among the worst posts in the history of mafiascum. A complete misrepresentation and a strawman of what Isa said.


Then there are his "cases".

His "case" on benoni is laughable at best

Look at it:

Unvote

Vote Benoni

Iso #1-confirm
iso #2-rvs
Iso #3-fluff
Iso #4-fluff
Iso #5-bandwagoning

Then look at benoni's first 5 posts. This is a sensationalization of what benoni has done in an attempt to make a case.

Sure, the first two are accurate. 3rd isn't fluff, it's asking about an issue that has obviously come up in the game
4th is even LESS fluff. It's a clear commentary on the game in response to a post.
5th is coming on a bandwagon, yeah, but he's explaining it as well.

The "case" on lupus vega is slightly better, but it's still really short descriptions of posts putting them in a way to make them sound bad without even quoting them or explaining ANYTHING.

It's not even CLOSE to only be because he unvoted when lupus was at L-1. I voted him WELL before that and since I've kept my vote on him, I'd think that would be obvious.

[hasdgfas]

Nope, those aren't fluff. Fluff is stuff that's not game-related.

Explaining your vote isn't fluff. So what if it's the same reason as someone else?

Going "ok, I think I understand where you're coming from" and commenting on the state of the game isn't fluff. Sure, more can be done with it, but you're really, REALLY selling his posts short and I don't like it at all.

[hasdgfas]

I guess we just disagree on sorg, farside. Fine. I just hope you can see my side of it.

[hasdgfas]

I still like Isa over Cow. I don't like the way farside leapt from "Isa's scummy" to "Cow's scummy for defending Isa". I'm just speculating here, but she could be Isa's buddy, more likely than Cow anyway. She's managed to divert all attention away from Isa without ever challenging the wagon.

I'm trying to narrow down my reads today. I have too many null reads this game (no thanks to those lurking few). Cow has voted for the two people that unvoted and didn't offer anything. However letting Isa skate free on sheeping and making comments like this:

SORGSTER IS NOW AT L-1.

I am not willing to hammer at this point but had he not been at L-1 I'd put my vote on him.
UNVOTE: Umbrage No point in keeping my vote here.

Which can also be looked at as someone trying to look town bothers me. Alot.
I would like at the end of the day to have 3 to 4 scum suspects and a lot less null reads. I see no reason not to question Cow's actions here.

BECAUSE IT DOESN'T SEEM SCUMMY TO ME! HOW HARD IS THAT TO UNDERSTAND? Is it so hard to understand that I can just not see something as scummy when you do?

[hasdgfas]

I still like Isa over Cow. I don't like the way farside leapt from "Isa's scummy" to "Cow's scummy for defending Isa". I'm just speculating here, but she could be Isa's buddy, more likely than Cow anyway. She's managed to divert all attention away from Isa without ever challenging the wagon.

I'm trying to narrow down my reads today. I have too many null reads this game (no thanks to those lurking few). Cow has voted for the two people that unvoted and didn't offer anything. However letting Isa skate free on sheeping and making comments like this:

SORGSTER IS NOW AT L-1.

I am not willing to hammer at this point but had he not been at L-1 I'd put my vote on him.
UNVOTE: Umbrage No point in keeping my vote here.

Which can also be looked at as someone trying to look town bothers me. Alot.
I would like at the end of the day to have 3 to 4 scum suspects and a lot less null reads. I see no reason not to question Cow's actions here.

BECAUSE IT DOESN'T SEEM SCUMMY TO ME! HOW HARD IS THAT TO UNDERSTAND? Is it so hard to understand that I can just not see something as scummy when you do?

BUT SOMEONE THAT DERP'S ABOUT IS SCUMMY?
You can yell at me that you don't see it all you want. It doesn't mean I believe you. Tell me why you don't see it. What besides a null tell rings town about Isa to you?

Isa feels like town to me. That's the read I get from her(?) posts. I don't have anything specific to point to

[hasdgfas]

^That doesn't win me over. Gut is not everything.

It doesn't have to win you over, but that's my reasoning. I can't give you anything else.

[hasdgfas]

@benoni: If you're not fighting every single step of the way as town to prevent your lynch, you're doing something very, very wrong. You are the only person you know is town, so your lynch is the only lynch that you know won't hit scum. You should do everything in your power to prevent that.

Now, I need to do some reading.

[hasdgfas]

Ok. After some re-reading and reading of completed games elsewhere, I'm finally seeing what others see on Isa. I'm not fully convinced, since I still don't think sheeping is scummy, but I was a bit tunneled.

@Isa: I concur with others. State some scumreads and your reasons for it.

I still dislike sorgster. I think he's trying to skate by, and I really think he can do more than he is.

Quaroath: Come out, come out, wherever you aaaaaaare! I'd like to hear your scumreads as well. Same with Lupus, who's also UTR.

[hasdgfas]

Hascow, I think I'm going to need you explain in full why you made the comments you made about umbrage. I think I know why, but I need to be sure because a large part of my read on you is based on it. If I somehow missed the explanation, please point me to it.

Thanks.

A) I wanted early pressure on someone because I hate RVS, and I figure that calling a vote "serious" would spark discussion
B) I recently finished modding a game where Umbrage was scum and thought I might be able to see a difference in meta between umbrage under pressure as town/scum

[hasdgfas]

This post makes me more then happy with my second scum read being Cow.
Wishy washy, hypocritical and pushing of the VI without having other multiple scum suspects noted.

?????????????????????????????????????????

[hasdgfas]

This post makes me more then happy with my second scum read being Cow.
Wishy washy, hypocritical and pushing of the VI without having other multiple scum suspects noted.

?????????????????????????????????????????

Your post about Isa is wishy wasy. The I see it but crap I'm not buying.
The asking Isa for his reads is hypocritical considering your not giving much except your thoughts on Sorg.
As for Sorg I admitted he hasn't said much in this game, compared to the game I linked and it bothers me, but I feel and explained why Isa is more likely scum with big bold reasoning. I feel like you especially are trying to push Sorg over Isa and it bothers me a lot.

But I was being the opposite of wishy-washy. I was clearly stating that I saw what others saw(aka, something bothered me), but wasn't convinced enough to go for Isa over sorgster. How is that in any way "wishy-washy"?

Asking someone for their reads is hypocritical? What? Just in the post that you quoted when you said that, I was talking to other players besides sorg/isa so I can get a read on some quieter players. I also feel no need to state any town reads that I have.

Why would I not push the person I believe is more likely to be scum? You're talking about me being hypocritical, but you're doing the same thing I am, saying "oh, on a re-read sorgster does bother me, but let's look at Isa instead". It's the exact same thing.

You're also being way too harsh on sorgster, calling him a VI. It's baloney, farside. You saw his old game, how is that VI behavior?

[hasdgfas]

Guess who disappeared after he stopped being the center of attention. sorgster.

Sorry, guys. Been busy, just read over the posts since I've been away. I want to do a reread before a big post, but before that, I'm going to chime in with my first impressions of this page:

In my experience (which is, admittedly, limited), when two people are going hammer and tongs day 1, neither of them tend to be scum. So I'm going to look elsewhere for now (although I didn't really like either Farside or Isa). I'm keeping an eye on them, but they're not my top priorities at the moment.

Catch up post coming in a bit.

So busy that as soon as someone mentions that you're not posting, you come back?

Also, I'm a bit confused. You say you didn't like either farside or Isa, but you don't think they're scum for reasons having nothing to do with their play? Seems TSQ already said that, but I'm going to reiterate.


I had also forgotten that Umbrage and Unknown were even in this game. I would love to hear them actually saying something, because with so few posts I'm having difficulty actually getting a read on them.

[hasdgfas]

Alright, I lurked through this day to get opinions on me vs. farside, and I am happy with what has been gained (two unvotes if nothing else). I also have a lack of time to make another huge defending/case-building wall (I just got home 20 minutes ago and it's midnight over here at the time of writing), so sorry guys, but here's me sheeping more.

Now,
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Thestatusquo
Sheep of benoni's case. In addition TSQ didn't post his read on me, but on everyone else, in one of his earlier posts. After my wall, he quickly put me down as town. Checking where the wind blows? Also a complete misrep on Lupus - Lupus never mentioned ANYTHING about wagons, all he/she said was that players going in a deep clinch day 1 seem to be town, but that doesn't hinder TSQ from saying that wagons are frequently on townies day 1. Come again? Completely unrelated.
VOTE: Sorgster
I thought sorgster was at L-2, but he was at L-4 at the time of my wall - seeing that he only had 3 votes is discouraging. This is the L-2 vote on him.
His stimulus response is incredibly awkward - if nobody else has done it by that time, tomorrow I will look up his meta to see if it matches. My previous reasons for voting him stands as well.

How would you respond differently(assuming you are town)than I did to being put at l-1 due to lack of activity?

I don't think it's for lack of activity

[hasdgfas]

V/LA through Sunday

[hasdgfas]

hey guys, I'm back from V/LA, but probably won't be able to make a decent post until tomorrow.

[hasdgfas]

First thought: hascow - why did you specifically pick Umbrage over everyone else to see how she would do under pressure?

I actually mentioned this later, but I'll do so again. I saw Umbrage as scum in a newbie I modded and thought I might be able to see some sort of meta difference.

I feel like Umbrage is all over the place. Unexplained reads, ignored questions, farside is top scumspect in ISO 12-15 then unvoted in 16 for.. some reason... I have no real idea where he stands or why.

UNVOTE: Lupus Vega
VOTE: Umbrage

That's because so far this game is incredibly fucking boring. Everyone's scared to come off as scummy. At least farside has some balls, but she's all over the place, and I don't trust her enough to sheep her.

I'm skimming over the game to try and see if anything stands out, but so far all I see is mindless back and forth.

And you're different? You're not doing anything to push the game forward either as far as I can see.

1) that wagon on him went hella fast and I'm skeptical when I see a wagon go that fast and with an unvote. Lupas did the same and it was the same reaction.

The wagon on him

was not for an unvote

. You voted him for the unvote, but everyone else had completely different reasons for it.

I've really got nothing to contribute right now. This past weekend killed a lot of momentum in the game. I'm pretty much just waiting for everyone to catch up including xvart and Lupus Vega's replacement. It seems Lupus Vega has requested replacement in all his other games - just a matter of time until our mod logs on and reads the same note from him. So much for reading up on Lupus Vega.

BS. Who are your scumreads? Just sorgster and Umbrage? why? I'm not sure I actually saw any reasons for voting sorgster apart from "pressure", and I really don't understand your umbrage vote.


@TheFool: What do you think of Unknown?
@Unknown: What do you think of TheFool?

[hasdgfas]

cow

:

Post 32

- so the "I actually want to lynch you was just postruring to keep up the charade you explained later?

Post 143

- Why did you isolate Lucas to ask what he thinks of you?

Post 146

- The "counterpoint" cow makes about null tells in this post comparing town lying and someone explaining an unvote is absurd; and the fact that he uses it not once but twice makes it appear to me to be even more just making up stuff as he goes along.

Post 158

-

Almost none of his posts have felt like town posts to me. That's all there is to it. It's really all I have to go on at this point, but it's the best I have to go on. He doesn't feel town,

This post reads to me as an attempt to justify behavior or reinforcing a fake read he had been pushing after the fact with the loosey goosey "none of his posts felt like town posts."

Post 210

- The "as town" in this post could be insider information identifying Ben as town, all the way offering advice on how to be town.

1) Yes. I was trying to draw out a specific reaction and thought I could do it.
2) I wanted to find out Lupus's thoughts on me and farside who were having the main discussion at the time, as well as sorgster for obvious reasons.
3) Absurd? Not at all. It's more a motivation thing. There's very rarely a town motivation to lie about your role. Similarly, there's very rarely a town motivation to explain that you're unvoting someone to avoid a quickhammer, because it's COMPLETELY OBVIOUS that's why you're doing.
4) This is stupid.
5) This is similarly stupid.

[hasdgfas]

The wagon on him was not for an unvote. You voted him for the unvote, but everyone else had completely different reasons for it.

Lack of anything useful said then.

No. This is just completely false.

BS. Who are your scumreads? Just sorgster and Umbrage? why? I'm not sure I actually saw any reasons for voting sorgster apart from "pressure", and I really don't understand your umbrage vote.

Putting pressure on someone who is contributing more then you is noted.

You've been gone all weekend and this is all you really have to say?

Yep. I also don't understand your first sentence. What does that have to do with ANYTHING?

2) I wanted to find out Lupus's thoughts on me and farside who were having the main discussion at the time, as well as sorgster for obvious reasons.

Why lupas over others?

Because I picked Lupus.

[hasdgfas]

2.) As for hasdgfas, he is obviously a more experienced player, and so I would naturally expect it to be more difficult to explain a case on him. For the most part, though, it comes down to tone, and the fact that I do not buy his tone. Many of his posts, to me, look like they are faking anger or surprise. Townspeople do not have to do this; scum do. I do not think he has a good reason to defend Isa, and I do not think he has adequately explained why he would defend Isa while attacking others. His argument with farside22 did not feel very genuine to me. That is more than enough reason to want to vote for him, especially on Day One.

What about it do you think is fake? This is so incredibly vague that I can't really respond to it. I keep seeing the other point as well. "I defended Isa". I defended sheeping, because I don't think it's scummy. I don't think that I've done any more specific "defending" of Isa. All I remember is being asked about Isa and saying that I didn't see Isa as scummy.

[hasdgfas]

... Processing ...

Here's a novel idea, hasdgfas. Instead of asking me to explain something I explicitly said is "difficult to explain," why don't you give an opinion on The Rufflig?

You know, that guy I'm attacking who I'm thinking might be partners with you.

"difficult to explain" doesn't mean "impossible to explain". A little more something would be helpful.

Anyway, I have a null read on rufflig, leaning weak town. I've liked a good amount of his posting and found it useful, but there are enough bits of weirdness in there that I don't have confidence either way.

[hasdgfas]

1.)

Curious. And what do you think of The Rufflig's commentary on farside22 that I quoted? You don't think it feels at all weird that he spends an entire paragraph trying to make farside22 look ridiculous while ending with "but I don't know" and claiming he will be "cheering" on the sidelines taking "copious notes"?

Didn't read like trying to make her look ridiculous to me. It read as "I thought she was scum, then I re-read and changed my mind and want to look at her in the future", which is completely legitimate.

@Cow: Tell me why you believe that sorg is scum.

I did this already when you asked before. Not doing it again.

You are pointing to TR for something your no better about.

So?

Also posting about current things and not about past stuff while being gone comes off as posting crap to lurkerish.

I'd rather post something than nothing.

Also your answer about Lupas is not an answer.
Why did you pick Lupus over others. This is not RVS shit.

Neither is "I picked Lupus because I felt like it" because that's what it came down to. I wanted to hear Lupus's thoughts so I could get a better read.

"difficult to explain" doesn't mean "impossible to explain". A little more something would be helpful.

Anyway, I have a null read on rufflig, leaning weak town. I've liked a good amount of his posting and found it useful, but there are enough bits of weirdness in there that I don't have confidence either way.

Pot this is kettle. You are talking about Glados being vague. Your response about TR is very vague too.

So what?

How about this.

Who are your top 3 scum suspects and why?

sorgster - duh
Umbrage - sliding by, seemingly not reading the game, and an all around lack
Don't have a third right now, it was Lupus, but I like Glados so far, even if I disagree with him(should I use he for a female character being played by a male?)
If I

had

to pick one, I'd say that I absolutely hate what benoni has posted in the past page or two about glados. He's not actually attacking the argument, he's going "not sure if scum or stupid" and "this makes me facepalm" and "your persecution complex" and it looks like a blatant chainsaw defense. It really rubs me the wrong way.

I do have a town read on farside as well.

anyway,

unvote glados
vote Umbrage

[hasdgfas]

Let me put it this way. Calling someone out for what your doing and being lazy is not town.

Wrong.

Posting fluff is scummy.

I'm not posting fluff.

Your being vague in your responses and not expanding is scummy

Also incorrect.

No examples and I would say that Unknow is also sliding by this game, Isa is not reading the game because he keeps avoiding answers or acknowledge once that I commented about that and wtf is all around lack? Lack of what?

To the first part, then great, I'm happy for you. But look at Unknown's posts compared to Umbrage's. A lack. Lack is a noun meaning "absence" or "something missing or needed".

Doesn't explain what you learned from what he said. No one should have to pull teeth to get responses from you.

Because he didn't answer the question. How can I expand on something if there was nothing to expand on?

Your comment about modding Umbrage and the differences/similarities, where is the link? What is that game you modded is Umbrage scum this game?

It would take you like 3 clicks to find it if you're that interested. If I had found anything of note, I would have said something, but I didn't, so I didn't.

I notice you're completely ignoring what I said about benoni because it doesn't mesh with your argument. What do you think of what benoni's posted about glados?

[hasdgfas]

VOTE: Cow

1. Pressure vote on me to try and get a meta read.
2. Doesn't say whether it worked or not.
3. Ignores me rest of game.
4. Votes me for "lack".

I'm trying to see a logical consistency in these events, but no joy so far.

This is hysterical.
1 clearly didn't work due to the wagon fizzling, so 2 is pretty obvious.
There was barely anything from you to ignore for 3.
For 4, read my post, that's not the only reason, and you stating that it is only confirms my suspicions of you.

[hasdgfas]

I'm more active now than I've been in ages. Why now, other than OOH I'LL PICK ON AN EASY TARGET TO MAKE IT LOOK LIKE I'M SCUMHUNTING?

Because I'm lazy and was tunneling. Then when farside asked me for scum suspects, I looked back and you stuck out.

4. If you weren't trying to further justify something after being called out on having a weak vote why did it take you so long to say "none of his posts have been town motivated"? That would be one of the first things I would say when trying to build a case on someone.

But I was the ENTIRE TIME. I went "he's trying to look town" "trying to look town". That's the same thing as "none of his posts are town motivated".

5. I agree that it isn't a solid case which is why it isn't the focal point but something I added on because of the rest of your behavior leaning scum motivated.

It's just completely inane and doesn't make sense. There's even less scum motivation than town motivation to say that for the reasons you mention. What possible reason would scum have for saying that to town? I don't see it.

[hasdgfas]

answer the question farside.

[hasdgfas]

answer the question farside.

Why should she? Why should any of us have to indulge you when

you decide that you're playing this game now?

puh-leeeeze

[hasdgfas]

@Cow: Why do you call me out on answering questions while others ignore questions I asked, LIKE ISA!


God I hate fucking hypocrites.

Because usually, the person asking the question is the one who wants it answered and therefore notices if it is missed. People should answer your questions, I completely agree. But you should be the one ragging on them to answer them, not me. There's absolutely nothing hypocritical about me wanting a question answered by the person I asked. Unless I missed a question you asked me, but I don't remember one.

answer the question farside.

Why should she? Why should any of us have to indulge you when you decide that you're playing this game now?

Cow is contributing to the game, it could help us find scum by asking and answering questions.

What a scummy post.

You know, if you want to try and dispute my claims that you're not contributing, you should try contributing. Simply writing the word please isn't going to cut it, no matter how many 'e's you squeeze in there sweetheart.

If you want me to take you seriously, you should explain how I'm not contributing.

[hasdgfas]

@Cow: You going to expand on your case you made that I requested on Umbrage that is pure fluff?

I'll try to have something tonight.

Again, why should I believe that you're suddenly going to take this game seriously? You admitted that you're only talking with us because farside badgered you to do so. I'm not the only one that thinks you're not contributing.

No. Farside asking me for my scum suspects made me realize I was tunneling, but that doesn't mean I wasn't contributing.

@All

Can people please give me their updated reads on Benoni and Isa, and reasons for their reads? I feel like they're getting lost in the shuffle.

I'm currently leaning scum on benoni for his ridiculous chainsaw defense of Rufflig. It was absolutely absurd.

I'm reading Isa as town. He just doesn't seem to care if he does something scummy, and I feel that scum won't so blatantly admit to things like sheeping or lurking to get info.

[hasdgfas]

@Cow:

I'm sorry, do you really think TR mentioning Toy Story Mafia is a "for sure" scumtell? Are you agreeing with GlaDOS here?

If not, why is it OK for someone to stretch like that? On Page 16 when there's plenty of information available? Then backtrack about it?

It has nothing to do with what I think about what glados said. My problem with what you did was the fact that you weren't attacking what glados said, you were attacking glados and saying things like how he has an "insane persecution complex" and saying "not sure if scum or completely nuts", which is absurd and trying to discredit the person without even addressing what they're saying.

[hasdgfas]

Also why am I at L1? I'm obvtown. farside you know my scum play, there's no excuse for this.

If you're saying this, you obviously know your own meta and can play with that in mind, so I have no interest in trusting this.

Now, going back a bit:

NOOOOOOOOO YOU ARE NOT QUALIFIED TO DEFINE 'CONTRIBUTING'. Nice try though.

Why? Do you believe that those who you don't think are contributing can't have insights into the game? It was an incredibly scummy post, but more for the ridiculous defense of me than the fact that he said that I was contributing

In other news, I like GLaDOS. I've had a gut scum read on The Rufflig for a while now, and never knew just how to express it. Glad to see I'm not crazy. I'll try and nail down exactly what bugs me,

Could you do this please?

answer the question farside.

Why should she? Why should any of us have to indulge you when you decide that you're playing this game now?

Again, why does that matter? You're trying to discredit what I'm saying simply because you don't like my level of contribution to this point? There's only scum motivation for that.

sorgster's town. farside is scum pushing a bullshit case on him. SO IT IS SAID SO IT SHALL BE.

How do we get from this(which is just blatantly not reading the game) to this:

@farside: After so many pages of arguing, you still don't understand why I think sorgster is scummy, do you? It's not the inactivity, which is not much of a tell stand-alone; it's the way he responds to the calling out of inactivity.

It's hard to explain but the best I can tell you is in two folds

1) that wagon on him went hella fast and I'm skeptical when I see a wagon go that fast and with an unvote. Lupas did the same and it was the same reaction.

2) Every time I see a post from Sorg it's like someone who has a foot in mouth issue. Add that my gut call on him still reads as VI'ish.

I just see some people pushing him and I detect lazy scum hiding within.

This.

UNVOTE: farside22

in two days? What about that post convinced you that farside is town? Or was it something else?

It just seems like Umbrage is flitting about, saying whatever comes to mind and hoping something sticks. I'm just not seeing anything that makes me happy with keeping umbrage around.

[hasdgfas]

Not that it was null. He said NOT A SCUM TELL.

Are you serious? What possible meaning besides "it's null" could "not a scumtell" mean, farside? That is just an ABSURD comment.

I haven't thrown a fit all game. I don't have that much self-control.

Maybe I need to re-read you in Paranoia, but I seem to remember you throwing a fit of some sort.

I have no idea what this means.

Then let me try again. It seemed like yet another attempt to discredit someone just because you didn't like their level of participation, not because of what they actually said.

I'm not trying to discredit you. farside's got that covered. I'm just wondering why you think we should pay any attention to your questions, and why I should take you seriously when you say you vote me.

You're absolutely trying to discredit me. Your last 4 posts responding to me have felt like some variation of "oh look, someone who I don't have to pay attention to because I don't like what he's saying". You should pay attention to me because I'm in the game. There should be absolutely no town reason to think otherwise.

I'm not getting involved with every little drama this game has. I don't micromanage. So far I'm the only one that's thinking outside the box, who's not tunneling on anyone. Yes, I'm jumping cases. That's a good thing, I'm not sheeping.

It's anti-town to sheep, it's pro-town to come up with many theories.

I'm just shitting out whatever's on my mind. Some of it's good, some of it's not, but it's all out there. Nobody WANTS me around, but you all NEED me around. I stay objective, I offer different viewpoints. And that's how scum gets caught.

This as a whole makes sense. The bolded is mafia theory which is quite debatable and I disagree with a bit of it, but that's not really an issue.

[hasdgfas]

we have a roleblocker as well as a 1-night full roleblock?

[hasdgfas]

It seemed like yet another attempt to discredit someone just because you didn't like their level of participation, not because of what they actually said.

sorg is doing everything possible to save his ass, and we should all keep that in mind when reading his posts.

Correct, and he's doing it in a scummy way. It's important to make a distinction. I'm happy lynching sorgster, but I was a little ticked at "you're not allowed to define contributing"

You should pay attention to me because I'm in the game.

You've flipped around on your opinion of me several times so far.

Not really, I went after you early to try to draw a specific reaction, dropped it and then jumped on you later. I don't think that constitutes "flipping several times"

Because I'm lazy and was tunneling. Then when farside asked me for scum suspects, I looked back and you stuck out.

I have no idea what to think about this. You're admitting that farside's pressure is the only reason you're on my case, and it makes me wonder what you'd be doing and thinking if farside hadn't pushed you. That's why I can't trust you. I don't know how much of your actions are your own.

I'm not sure I understand this, at least the last sentence. What does doing something in response to a question have to do with the actions being my own or not?

Day 2, I will reveal who I insulted and the insult, and that person will post the insult as well.

pretty sure that breaks the "no quoting mod PMs" rule.

I'm back from my trip and I'll catch up on the rest of the posts but I just read the last page now and am not a fan of the claim, the context in which the claim came out, etc., so...

UNVOTE: cow
VOTE: Isa L-1

What about it don't you like?

[hasdgfas]

Day 2, I will reveal who I insulted and the insult, and that person will post the insult as well.

pretty sure that breaks the "no quoting mod PMs" rule.

Hypo-scenario:

Isa: "So I heard that TheFool is a disgracefully gloomy nebbish and a bootlessly disappointing gimcrack."
TF: "Yes, I am. Isa is confirmed roleblocker." or "No, I am not. VOTE: ISA"

There you are. Just an example of how it can be done.

The insult was taken from a generator I found.

you said "that person will post the insult as well". Obviously it can be done a different way, I just felt like saying something was a good idea before it actually happened.

[hasdgfas]

we have a roleblocker as well as a 1-night full roleblock?

What was the point of this post? Did you doubt one person or not? This reads as fluff.

Oh, whoops, part of that seems to have been cut off when shifting it from notepad. I was attempting to say that it seems weird that we'd have two town-aligned blocking roles. How common are multiple town-aligned blocking roles in minis?

[hasdgfas]

I'm pretty sure GlaDOS's role shouldn't be analyzed as a blocking role...

It's a dayvig + timer reset. Role is used, someone dies, day continues, only it's the next day instead of the current one. See? Only difference is mafia get to talk a night, and the day timer is reset. Aside from that it's as though the night didn't even happen. That's the way I understand it.

He said "universal roleblock" in his claim, so I'm going to call it that.

we have a roleblocker as well as a 1-night full roleblock?

What was the point of this post? Did you doubt one person or not? This reads as fluff.

Oh, whoops, part of that seems to have been cut off when shifting it from notepad. I was attempting to say that it seems weird that we'd have two town-aligned blocking roles. How common are multiple town-aligned blocking roles in minis?

Not common. Do you believe one person? Why?

The issue is that I have town reads on both players, and both claims are believable on their own. I'm having trouble knowing what to think at this point and wish that we had another day.

[hasdgfas]

we have under 40 minutes. Let's get a lynch done.

[hasdgfas]

hasdgfas, are you willing to vote for The Rufflig?

Yes, but I really don't think we can get a lynch in 12 minutes

[hasdgfas]

2.)

hasdgfas, why did you insist on trying to "get a lynch" right before deadline, but then refuse to move your vote to The Rufflig because it was "too late"?

Because I was already voting for people who had more votes than TR. Moving the vote would have been as useless as xvart's vote that you're calling out with the amount of activity there was. If people had actually been posting it would have been different

Sorry for not believing you, Isa.

Why do you feel the need to say this?

[hasdgfas]

@Cow: I'm still waiting on your reasons for finding Umbrage scummy.

No you're not. I did this already. I even said "I'm doing this for farside" iirc.

1.)

hasdgfas, are you still willing to vote for The Rufflig?

I'm thinking about it. I need to reread him after the Isa flip

[hasdgfas]

Cow: Was this the post?

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p3519126

Because this post
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p3520442

Seems like you backtracked a bit from your original thoughts

Because I did. Umbrage's responses caused me to question my thoughts a bit, but not enough to unvote.

[hasdgfas]

ugh, I'm getting lazy. This is bad. I'll have something tomorrow guys.

[hasdgfas]

Here's what confuses me. ISOing GlaDOS, she seems to be comfortable claiming her semi-town-directed-oneshot-dayvig power early and then waffles a bit about what to do with her vote.

Is there any town motivation for this? Seems to me that if she's town, once she's claimed this she's locked into using it Day 1, or risk an NK and a town-directed kill going away forever. Maybe she was planning to ask for doc protection, but she seemed to give no indication that she was worried about this, plus one might as well use this kill and have to worry less about night actions.

What exactly is the point of this post?

Vote Farside22

This shouldn't be changing anytime soon either. I'm completely with unknown on this one. I know I'm a bit of a vi but his umbrage case makes perfect sense.

What? Why are you voting farside?

Question 8: Regardless of how I play, I will be suspicious. I tend to seem scummy like crazy. I try attacking people who people don't suspect much and don't try to go on bandwagons.

That's what I wanted to show u lunita. Also the first reasons. Umbrage's case makes no sense at all to me. Ford prefect cannot be scum. I know umbrage wants me alive because I'm not a great player. I highly believe umbrage is scum for trying to lynch an obvtown.

It seems like the last sentence of that quoted answer is just completely the opposite of how you've played this game. Why?

[hasdgfas]

@Hascow Because although Isa can't post anymore, he can still read the thread. I was conflicted when I read his claim because although I had a scum read on him and his claim didn't make sense to me, I was worried about being wrong. I debated whether to leave my vote, and ultimately decided to do so, because I decided to trust my scum read on him. In hindsight, he obviously was telling the truth, and if I had believed him and unvoted, and voted for someone else, then we might have ended up with a different lynch and thus an opportunity to have gotten it right.

Ok, and why couldn't this wait until postgame? This seems rather similar to "good job doc" in terms of things that scum are more likely to say in order to try to seem town. I don't like it.

GlaDOS is confirmed town to me

Why? Why do you feel any sort of "confirmation" besides that glados is Ford Prefect?

So, that leaves Benoni, Xvart, TSQ, Sorgster, and Unknown for my vote pool.

Sorgster I'm not sure what to do with... while I do think he's been relatively consistent in his meta, there are things that are making me wonder if this is what Sorgsterscum would look like ... he said yesterday that GLaDOS should have used his power even though it would have killed Sorgster because he was being scummy. That self-awareness of being scummy gave me pause.

Unknown and TSQ have been too off the radar. I know TSQ is being replaced, so we'll see what the replacement brings.

More later, but for now sleep.

Ok, so you say this, but don't do anything with it. What do you mean? How are you leaning on these players? What about them is influencing that read? This is pretty much a whole lot of nothing. You list a bunch of people in your vote pool, say that sorgster's confusing and that unknown and TSQ(now Bub) are off the radar. This looks like "posting just to post" as opposed to anything actually helpful.

[hasdgfas]

I haven't seem scummy at all cow? Are you serious?

Do you know what a sentence is? Or what the last one of your quoted answer is? Because that is not at all what I'm talking about.

[hasdgfas]

Because I've never heard of scum dayvig,

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16341 for one. The rest of your response makes some sense, I'm just

incredibly

wary of anyone calling anyone confirmed without any sort of flip or anything to even hint at confirmation. The only confirmation we have is that glados is ford prefect.

I had spent my entire break that day reading through the thread trying to draw conclusions. I was having doubts as to which two were my strongest and was unsure where I wanted to place my votes, so I didn't vote but I wanted to get my thoughts out there before I left the next morning for my business trip. Not only did I list my suspect list, I also listed my town read.

But what are your reasons for them to be suspects? Is it just process of elimination? Or is there something they've done to put them there?

And, I note, my post was a lot more helpful than the "posting just to post" that you did with posts like:

That was "posting to acknowledge that I'm not posting" not "posting just to post". It's totally different.

You haven't voted today either, or really advanced your own thoughts, so I really don't like the hypocrisy.

I'm trying to strengthen my reads(or change them) with my posts as opposed to just out of the blue voting with nothing behind it.

I was the first to make a case on benoni. I've also attacked umbrage quite a bit this day phase.

But Umbrage was attacked yesterday as well, so how does that actually follow what you said there?


Anyway, I did some rereading of The Rufflig, and believe we should look here for scum.

Firstly, let's look at his "updated read on Isa" in reply to Lunita's question:

Isa: Isa sheeped a lot early on without bringing much to the table. While, I dislike sheeping, Isa had a point in that cases on someone tend to look remarkably similar with minor variations on the weaker points. So while I don't like it, at least he had the decency to always say which reasons were the basis of his votes unlike certain other players. A point in Isa's favor is that he did start to bring some of his own original thoughts to the table before receiving more than a couple of votes. I'm actually beginning to warm to the idea that Isa isn't scum. I certainly think we have much better prospects for today.

Ok, seems like a decent read on first glance, doesn't it? Except it doesn't really say anything. Look at it again.

REALLY LOOK AT IT

. He's not taking a stand. It's not "I don't think Isa is scum", it's "I'm warming to the idea that Isa isn't scum". That reads to me like scum knowing that it's a townie lynch but leaving their options open to vote/hammer after they magically find something to vote for right before deadline and go back to "yeah, I actually think Isa is scum after all". Or it leaves the option to not get on the wagon and go "yeah, I thought Isa was town" the next day.

Now, ctrl-F "Isa" and look through his ISO. He really doesn't say anything about Isa prior to his "updated read". I don't see this as town behavior, especially since Isa was a focus for much of the day.

vote: The Rufflig

also, sorgster really frustrates me because I keep thinking tons of what he says is scummy and then he comes out with something like this:

We need a lynch. If it has to be me so be it.

And I question my read, because I don't know what to make of it. It seems like something scum would never say, but town shouldn't be saying it either. I need to take another look at him

[hasdgfas]

hascow, could you link me to a game where you were town please?

Here is Test of Faith Mafia, which is a large theme and the only relatively recent game I've played in as town.

[hasdgfas]

I'm starting to highly doubt that scum will kill me during night phase and I feel that a claim is needed.

I'm Oolon Colluphid

every night phase I may find an item of a player I target that gives information about what character they are.

This is one of the reasons I'm so sure Glados is obvtown.

if you're going to claim that much you might as well spell it out.

[hasdgfas]

............................................

thanks everyone. There's no chance of anything coming of this now. We could've just waited for him to respond to what I said, but nooooooooo. We had to go and assume.

[hasdgfas]

I

never

said I used my role.

With a role like mine that's ability is used to figure out what

character

someone plays, what is the chance of glados being ford prefect and scum?

In a Harry Potter game, what would you think the chances of Harry/Ron/Hermione being scum were? Pretty low, right? But I've seen it. You

cannot

go based on flavor and character names, because a competent mod will punish you heavily for it.

[hasdgfas]

[quote="In post 664, sorgster"][/quote]

Right, but it's there to punish fake-character claims, and now you've blown its usefulness by claiming DAY TWO.

[hasdgfas]

I'd like to form an inactive-removing voting-bloc. I invite Lunitawolf, sorgster and The Rufflig to join me in this endeavor, as these are the 3 I trust the most so far through my readthrough (I'm on pg 10, though I've ISO'd Rufflig and sorgster.)

FoS: VisceraEyes

Explain in more depth please.

[hasdgfas]

In my experience, scum will, if town is on the wrong trail and heading for a mislynch, be content to sit idly by, cast their vote, and watch as town tears itself apart. I'm looking to curb this by attempting to remove inactive players who aren't 'contributing' up to the standards set forth by the bloc I'm proposing. This way, one person isn't solely responsible for deciding what's acceptable, it's agreed upon by a group of players with a common goal.

Is it possible that it's scum driven? Not in my opinion. Unless you're working under the assumption that I'm scum and I've invited ALL or even PART of my scumbuddies IN PUBLIC to vote with me. Impossible? No. Likely? No.

Well, if you're going to do something like that, you should:
A)Finish reading the entire game first
B)Finish reading the entire game first
C)Not do it
D)Finish reading the entire game first
E)Not do it

The ENTIRE TOWN IS THERE to do this, why should we allow a group of four to determine what "contributing" means and whether or not it's scummy.

[hasdgfas]

Top of Page Vote Count

5 - Umbrage (sorgster, Unknown, TheFool, The Rufflig, VisceraEyes)
4 - The Rufflig (hasdgfas, TheFool, Unknown, xvart)
2 - sorgster (Umbrage, xvart)
2 - Unknown (farside22, Lunitawolf)
1 - Bub Bidderskins (Lunitawolf)
1 - farside22 (sorgster)
1 - GLaDOS (Umbrage)
1 - Lunitawolf (Bub Bidderskins)
1 - xvart (The Rufflig)

Not Voting (1) - GLaDOS

---

Don't. I'm talking to the 3 people I just mentioned, not to town. I'm not saying YOU should listen to us as far as what 'contributing' means. I'm saying that as a group, we'll decide what WE think contributing means and vote accordingly. If you think we've got a good lynch, and if you wanna join us, feel absolutely free to do so - we can't achieve a lynch with only 4 people anyway. I'm not forming a lynching bloc, I'm forming a voting bloc.

I fully intend to read the entire game. This is a thought that's occurred to me while reading the game. You seem pretty scared by this notion, and you're NOT a lurker. What's the dillio cow-creature?

The deal is that I

hate

block voting. It has no place in mafia(unless you have masons or neighbors), especially when it has to do with your definition of "contributing". It's something that should be discussed by the entire town, and going "oh, we're making a voting block" is exclusionary by nature and is anti-town.

[hasdgfas]

the only medium we have to discuss anything we're doing is going to be in public...where everyone will be given a chance to speak up anyway.

Then why bother? I really don't understand the point

[hasdgfas]

@Cow: Why does it seem you are pushing Sorg to believe GlaDos is scum?

Because you're tunneling on me and think things that aren't happening. I'm trying to tell him that he's making assumptions that are strictly incorrect.

[hasdgfas]

Top of Page Vote Count

4 - The Rufflig (hasdgfas, TheFool, Unknown, xvart)
4 - Umbrage (sorgster, Unknown, TheFool, The Rufflig)
3 - sorgster (Umbrage, xvart, VisceraEyes)
2 - Bub Bidderskins (Lunitawolf, VisceraEyes)
2 - Unknown (farside22, Lunitawolf)
1 - farside22 (sorgster)
1 - GLaDOS (Umbrage)
1 - Lunitawolf (Bub Bidderskins)
1 - xvart (The Rufflig)

Not Voting (1) - GLaDOS

---

*nice response*
There only incorrect till there is a flip. There is your point you made, he made his own view. You look to keep pushing your point till he agrees. Like you almost trying to get him to check GlaDos for some reason.

No, it's always incorrect. I wanted him to look at something besides his role. It just seems to me like people are giving glados a pass because he used a role and was confirmed as a certain character. I

HATE

that.

*sarcastic bitch response*
Yes I'm so tunneled, I haven't said shit to anyone else today or asked any questions to any one else.

Not what I meant when I said "tunneling" here. I'm not using it in a "only looking at one person" respect, I'm using it in a "I'm only taking your posts in one way" respect.

[hasdgfas]

@Cow: I'm not giving GlaDos a free pass because of the role claim or what happened but because I read his post and find them well thought out.

that's fine. But at least two people seem to, and I'm calling them out on it.

[hasdgfas]

As for my wagon, here's the summary:
hasdgfas: thinks I took a soft stance on Isa so I could hammer him or gloat about being right about him. Neither event occurred, but who cares?
The Fool: thinks my scum hunting looks insincere
Unknown: hasn't said why he's on my wagon today
xvart: hasn't said why he's on my wagon but it's probably due to me going after him because of his sorgster vote.

As wagons go, it's pretty bad, imo. Of the people on my wagon, only The Fool's vote appears on the level. I'm pretty sure there is scum among the remaining three.

hahahahahahahahahahahaha. This is great. How is "I think your scumhunting looks insincere" more "on the level" than "you were being wishy-washy and leaving yourself easy outs"? Here's the thing: It

does not matter

whether or not you did anything about it later. The fact that you did it initially is enough for me.

Ok, there is too much of a deal being made of my post where I stated I wasn't in favor of an Isa lynch, because I didn't yell loudly enough. It's not the first time I've been accused of this. Yeah, I'm going meta on this - feel free to ignore it if it isn't your cup of tea. I'll mention that I'm 3rd party in the first and town in the second.

As for my other posts not being loud enough for you - tough. I wasn't about to stick my neck out for someone that I didn't firmly feel was town.

On a related note, I ended up being the only one not in favor of lynching McGriddle yesterday as RBT's partner. Yet somehow I'm scummy for not speaking up louder in McGriddle's defense? Exactly how was I suppose to stop McGriddle's lynch? By voting for the real werewolf partner? Did that. Making a good case on the real werewold partner? Done that.

Why do I bring this up? Oh, a little thing called deadline happening soon. Let me know if you want a claim.

huh. Interesting. Too bad those posts mean absolutely nothing. What were the actual posts that came under attack in those cases?

[hasdgfas]

How is "I think your scumhunting looks insincere" more "on the level" than "you were being wishy-washy and leaving yourself easy outs"? Here's the thing: It

does not matter

whether or not you did anything about it later. The fact that you did it initially is enough for me.

Easily. Wishy-washy is meaningless unless you subscribe to the philosophy that everyone should always have rock solid reads on every other player in the game. Do you? Let's put it to the test. Player by player - who is scum and who is town in this game - no wishy-washyness allowed. I should hold Bub up to the same standard, I suppose. Or maybe I should just go back and quote both of you where you say that you aren't sure about someone's alignment? Oh, you probably shouldn't forget all the other people in the game who don't have rock solid reads on every player, but somehow they aren't scummy in your book. Afterall, "it doesn't matter whether or not

they

did anything about it later". So yeah, The Fool's case was more solid than your own. Keep in mind, that was a summary of The Fool's case.

I wasn't sure about Isa the entire day - unfortunately for me, one of the leading wagons ended up being on someone I wasn't sure about. This somehow makes me scummy? Even after I make up my mind against the lynch in deadline? Puh-lease. It's a transparently bad case.

Wow, what a beautiful straw man. I didn't say you can't be unsure about someone's alignment. The problem is HOW you did it. It was close to deadline and looked exactly like scum who knows someone is town but doesn't want to take a stand because that person is going to be lynched. It's completely different, and the fact that you're making the completely bogus argument that other people haven't had solid reads on every player just makes me even more confident in my read on you.

[hasdgfas]

And those are just samples that caught my eye while skimming his posts in isolation. This merely highlights my uneasiness with him. He continually takes an overly dismissive attitude towards players who do not share his opinions, and I honestly do not believe that he believes everything he is saying, or that he would use the same dismissive tone if he were Town.

The game quickly got under my skin and has stayed there. Because of that, I'm posting in a bit more of an annoyed fashion. It's not normal play, but this is a really high level of annoyance, so it comes through in my posting.

I’m also not a fan of his offhand comment expressing incredulity about the likelihood of having two “role-blocking” roles, and his insistence on using that terminology despite the fact that it was very clear my role is more of a Night-Skipping role than a “role-blocking” role.

Your claim had "universal roleblocker" in it. Not "night skipper". Therefore, I'm going to call it a roleblock. In addition, please go back and reread what I said about the two roleblocking roles(ISO posts 52 and 53 for quick reference), because you're taking something from it that's simply untrue.

[hasdgfas]

How does TR's scum hunting look "insincere". And another vague reasoning attack from hascow on why someone is scum.

Read the freaking game, farside. That was

not

me. If you're going to question ANYONE for that, it should be TheFool, because

THAT WAS HIS ACCUSATION

. Mine was the other one, and anything except vague. I'm really tired of this.

[hasdgfas]

This was based on ONE FUCKING QUOTE FROM RUFFLING.
That's it.
That is weak stuff and opportunistic scumtastic reason to find someone scum.
The only reason I think your on the TR wagon is because GlADos thought TR was scum. You "look into it" and come back with one quote and nothing else said after your constant leaning town read.

Yes farside, I changed my mind because someone else thinks that person is scum. There's absolutely

NO

possibility that I just changed my read on a player upon rereading them. It's a scummy post. Scummy enough to get rid of my leaning town read. Which, BY THE WAY, is anything but certain, which is why I said it was

NULL, LEANING WEAK TOWN

. Why in the wide world of sports am I not allowed to change that? In that same post, I note there's some weirdness in his posting, so changing my read is not as completely ridiculous as you're making it seem.

[hasdgfas]

Ok, here's the quote for Mini #1099 for you.

And the ones for Mini #1152 Quote #1, Quote #2

Btw, in the first game it was sotty7 attacking me over being too quiet on this issue. sotty7 turned out to be mafia. In the second game, the people attacking me over not taking a hard enough stand were Internet Stranger and Occult. They turned out to be mafia and werewolf respectively. That's right, the only time I've ever seen this cruddy argument is when it has been advanced by scum. I've never seen a townie make it.

Then vote me. Why aren't you? If you're that sure it's such a crappy argument, you should be voting me if you've only seen it from scum.

[hasdgfas]

I have a valid point about Unknown that he is ignoring.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

[hasdgfas]

... Processing ...

Perhaps that would be useful to players who put stock in vote count analyses. As it happens, I do not. A game with 13 players that that only has five phases (three Days, and two Nights) should only happen, at best, if there are (i) two scum teams, or (ii) a mafia team of three survives completely intact. The fact that this game had a dead mafiate and had a skipped night is indicative that the game ending on Night Three is simply too short, due to an overabundance of kills.

This pretty much exactly. VC analysis is useful to some people, but I really think it's crap for the most part. There are a couple things I'd look at, but as far as reasons for wagons? There's no way to accurately analyze them.

I do agree that there were way too many kills. 3 kills in one night just shouldn't happen in a 13 player game in my eyes. It was a fun game though, I enjoyed it, apart from my neighbor hating me because she thinks it has to be scum/town with neighbors.

Lunita did well, she never really had any suspicion on her. Medic did well at coming in and acting completely lost when he came under suspicion. I'll probably have a bit more to say later, but I will say that it was nice that I got killed by the mafia. It's been a while since that's happened to me.

[hasdgfas]

Fin