Zom Com Mafia - Mini 1225 (Abandoned)

[MagnaofIllusion]

Hey all replacing in ....

I'm V/LA as usual for the weekend but will try to read and catch-up tonight.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ok, beginning my read through.

I will be reading the game from the perspective of knowing Maru was scum.

I'll get back to you soonish.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Read Through Impressions

:

Day One

–

The early three vote train on Chronopie peaks my interest, especially in light of Seraphim’s reaction to being voted. Maru’s immediate vote on Sleepy may be viewed as an early Chainsaw defense.

Meanwhile Chronopie ignores all of page 1 (including the mini RVS wagon on himself and the Seraphim / Sleepy / Maru exchange) and drops a pointless vote. Am not particularly fond of this behavior. Ace and CC also get scum points for the same behavior. And so does Peregrine. Why are you people all allergic to actually commenting on actual thread activities?

Starbuck’s 80 earns scum-points -

1. FOSing Maruchan in the post where she dropped her RVS vote and not actually voting anyone else.
2. Adding a +1 to Bogre’s Rolefishing comment that Bogre almost immediately retracted (properly I might add).

The followup vote in 89 after Maru’s reaction to Daytalk reads as “Bus, Maru is a sinking ship”

CC’s 99 I don’t like in that he completely ignores Maru completely and does some fence-sitting on Seraphim while simultaneously voting him. The followup Starbuck vote is something I’m going to have to look at in full. He attacks Starbuck for a weak-bandwagon hop that looks to me like bussing. Merits further observations.

Ace’s soft fence-sit while offering out the Newbie card to Maru at 115 while dropping a vote on Seraphim looks suspect. Bonus scum points for you.

Jackalope first vote for Maru at128 and immediate back-off when Sleepy mentions (correctly or incorrectly) Maru being at L-1 while simultaneously asking for a claim (offering the “Get out of Jail Free Card”) looks very bad.

Seraphim’s reaction to the claim is Town in my opinion.

Peregine’s 168 where knocks Cojin (correctly) for not having content is interesting since it was his second post. Also he get scum points for absolutely ignoring anything regarding Maruchan.

His claim looks very much like a self-survival role rather than a pro-town role.

I do not think scum got fakeclaims because unlike some flavors, there really isn't anything that differentiates scum or town in this game.

His role looks something the Mafia could use more than the town.

Seraphim – very interested in how you know for certain the Bolded is accurate for all Town players.

Ace’s 222 and 224 look very much like digging to establish false links to others with the Boat Anchor that Maru was for the scum-team.

TL – DR Summary

–

Those most likely to be bussing: Starbuck, Ace, Jakalope (at last 1 scum is here for certain)

Those who fairly strongly defended Maru: Twisted, CC (most likely only 1 scum here max)

Those who ignored Maru completely: Chrono, Peregrine (likely scum here also)

Day 2

–

I’m not thirilled with Ipie’s immediate vote for Bogre as busser when he was pretty solid Town in my eyes for Day 1.

Ace’s 255 where he identifies for certain what Maru was thinking (um, whut? ) and the resulting “Everything means Seraphim is scummy” conclusion earns Scumpoints galore.

Jakalope’s 259 where he once again drops a “Either or is scum”with no reasoning is bad.

So due to Maru flipping scum and taking an extra vote, its probably safe to say that will be the same for all scum. Just something we all need to keep in mind.

No, that’s a horrid assumption as it accelerates LYLO / MYLO a full day in game where scum already have a pretty good numbers advantage rolling.

This looks like scum making sure any other players (aka a likely Town counterpart) are immediately lynched when they claim a higher lynch threshold.

The huge issue I have with Jakalope’s claim is the Coroner part. Given we have a Red flip (unless the color was added post Ashing which I can’t possibly tell at this stage) I don’t see the purpose of a Coroner role currently.

Nevermind a read-through of the rules AGAIN (dear God Nik this is almost as bad as your Bastard Game) seems to have cleared up my confusion on the issue.

Peregrine’s 347 is good posting regarding a possible CC gambit if Jakalope is Town.

Inflatible earned scum-points for hounding Twisted at 393 over Twisted’s Role-PM change claim. But his explanation at 401 makes sense and said points are retracted.

@Inflatible Replacement

– Please confirm that only Maru and Twisted were the ONLY names on your list (thus the other Mafia are human).

Not bullshit. My Daybor has claimed a Guilty on you, why do you think I'm pushing you so hard now?
Zombiebers get confused when townies show teamwork.

Last chance to retract this if it is a fake-claim Sleepy. I don’t put up with fake-claiming. You should know this. You have exactly 1 post to do so.

The last three pages made my eyes glaze.

TL – DR post with vote incoming.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ok … here are my thoughts …

The following people I think are scummy as hell and I will vote at the drop of a Hat – Ace, CC and Starbuck. If at least 2 of these three aren’t scum I’d be surprised given the 4 person scum team.

Jak’s play reads as scummy but the claim, at least for the moment, gives him a short-term pass. I do have concerns on ways his ability could help the Mafia out.

Sleepy is just on the outside of my scum reads. This will probably shift pending his response to my direct statement to him in my last post.

The following people are Town and not to be voted EVER – Twisted and IPie’s replacement. Borge – get your vote of Twisted immediately.

My read on Seraphim is pretty Town. Not voting him currently and looking at the top of page votes for him I don’t see that changing.

Borge, Peregrin and Chronopie are at varying degrees of Town side of Null. I would not be shocked if one or multiple of them were scum but don’t see anything that speaks to me loudly as of currently.

Since CC is the most viable wagon I’m dropping my vote there.

VOTE: CC

I’d much rather lynch Ace but see no wagon on him currently.

P.S.

– Yes scum this is the point where you say “Shit, we should have pushed the lurker Cojin to be lynched”. You lost your window of opportunity to mislynch this slot.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Sleepy stop futzing around and vote CC. Or Ace / Starbuck if so inclined.

[MagnaofIllusion]

But Seraphim/Jak/TS are so obv
I'm assuming I answered your question in a satisfactory way. Would you answer mine?
Is Godzilla a Zombieber?

Your response means I'm not immediately hanging you. So it was acceptable enough for the moment.

TS is not obv-scum but almost 100% guaranteed Town based on his Miller claim and the whole dust-up with IPie. The only way TS is scum is if he is scum with IPie. Since you don't think IPie's slot is scum you need to drop the read on Twisted. Unless they get to LYLO with no hint of a NK going their way it isn't worth worrying about that possibility yet (and it is an absolute longshot unless scum do have Daytalk which Maru's slip pretty much rules out)>

You are going to have to do much better about selling me Seraphim scum at this juncture. You aren't cutting it and your wagon mates are scummy as all get out.

Jak's role is provable (he better Coroner the very first Corpse and out the role information BEFORE the actual flip, BTW).

So start building a better case on Seraphim or jettison your reads and sheep me.

Godzilla is clearly not undead but a Force of Nature. Stop asking stupid questions.

Now if you are asking me if I am scum? No I'm Sparkly Town.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Hey, MoI, why is Chrono town on the side of null for you? If you can give me convincing reasons to not lynch Chrono, I will help you lynch Ace. I've been nursing suspicion of him but not speaking it aloud because I knew it wouldn't be popular.

I can't say I have compelling reasons as of yet. I just did all 21 pages of game thread in a single session. Nothing he dropped screamed "Die scum die" and nothing says "Hey, Chrono is Town" so he gets into Null. He's on the Town side of null as of now.

I'll re-read him and get back to you in the next few days.

Why hold off on Ace suspicions just because you knew they would be unpopular?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Because I had other scumreads and I was afraid of getting NKed for my reads and no one else following up on them.

Chrono looks scummy as fuck dude. Look at his non-committal stance on just about anything. And doesn't he usually lurk as scum? I seem to remember reading that somewhere.

Chrono is a chronic lurker regardless of alignment. Sad to say. Best game to highlight of recent vintage? Battle for Olympus Mafia.

I find the key to players like that is not post volume but hindsight intent and VC Analysis. Isn't very easy to do early but usually yields good results.

[MagnaofIllusion]

You wanna wagon Ace?

In a heartbeat. His play looks like very calculated linking to Maru before Maru even flipped despite the fact that he held off actually voting Maru for far too long.

Also - going to bed now.

[MagnaofIllusion]

InflatablePie who is now MoI"

No, you have this wrong. I replaced Cojin not IPie.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Yeah, I just noticed when re-reading through. Consider this an EBWOSEP.

Well I pointed it out because the quote attribution part (originally written by IPie) is correct but the replacement part is not.

IPie's stand in is still yet to come.

@NIk - Could you update the First post to show me replacing Cojin? Thanks so kindly.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ok, Sera is messing up my read on him. If he was scum, why isn't he on a major wagon?

Do you not consider the Jakalope wagon earlier to be a major wagon? He was on that. As of the point you posted the only major wagons (more than 2 votes in my book) are yourself and himself.

He isn’t going to be voting himself. That means you are surprised he isn’t voting your wagon (and he has said he doesn’t think you are scum based on your Maru defense). In your book do scum never stay off wagons?

Urghgmrfbn
Why am I playing so badly.
If I unvote now I'm going to get wagonned =/

1. You must have missed it but you were already being wagonned, and leading the pack at that.
2. I agree with Jak that the “If I do that I’ll be suspected” line of thought isn’t very Town at all. As Town you should be worried about finding and lynching scum. If you don’t think Seraphim is scum why would you be voting for him?

Claim time.
I'm Albert from Resident Evil. I'm a ressurector.
I have a one-shot ability, Outbreak. If I want to, in the night, I can choose one corpse to ressurect. They will return to life.
I also have a passive that tells me when this ability is used by someone else.
Any questions?

Awful eager to claim, IMO. So you can resurrect 1 corpse during the game. And have a passive ability that tells you when someone else uses Outbreak also?

1. Why wouldn’t the mod provided information tell us when someone is resurrected?
2. Do you think this claimed other person who might be able to use said resurrection ability is Town or scum?

UNVOTE: CC
VOTE: Ace

I need to see your forthcoming answers. And Ace is a good place for my vote in the meantime.
--

It was RVS. Would you expect to to {Bitch | Moan | Over-react in some discriminating way}?

Just because it was RVS doesn’t make it meaningless. I can point to two recent games I played in where ‘RVS’ wagons appeared that reached pretty significant numbers (Dr. Who Mini Theme where 5 votes appeared on Zang and ooba’s recent Song of Fire and Ice Large Theme where at least 7 votes appeared on SaintK). In both cases scum were pretty late on both wagons, with the bonus that the SaintK wagon was a scum-fueled counter RVS wagon to Vezok as scum.

Had you compiled one more quick RVS vote on you I’d be almost assured that at least 1 scum was on that wagon for certain. As it stands I’m thinking Starbuck has a good chance to be that scum anyway.

In summary? If you are Town (and I had this exact same discussion with Zang) then a quick RVS wagon where you are the sole target isn’t completely random.

--

@MoI- I see Ace as misguided town, but mostly give him town points for his "hammer" of Maru and explanatory posts leading up to it. Why is he on your scum list?

Why are you giving him Town points for a chronically late vote on already doomed Maru again?

Here is the time-line as I see it.

His first actual interaction with Maru is post 115. In this post he gives some ‘suspicion’ of Maru but does some fence-sitting saying “I could see him as Town or scum”. He gives a good number of reasons he ‘suspects’ Maru. In context Maru has 4 votes at this stage – Seraphim, IPie, Bogre, and Starbuck. Instead he chooses to vote Seraphim (bypassing both Maru and Starbuck’s bigger wagons) for vote-hopping.

He actually votes Maru at 222 (two ISO posts later for Ace). Here’s his text from this post –

Guys scum have daytalk and Sera has scumclaimed. Also Maru is obvscum since scum have daytalk. I have reason to believe Maru will be lynched with Vote: Maruchan. More soon, gotta go right now.

Here he votes Maru based on the unproven (Mod refused to answer the question) premise that he must be scum since scum have Daytalk. Note he still tries to link Seraphim to Maru despite the pretty obvious case that Seraphim was much earlier and more honest in his scum-hunting of Maru. In context Maru had the expected 7 votes to lynch at this point and had already began prancing around obv-scum-like in thread. Ace dropped a vote that was coming from someone and did it with the sole intention of lining up Seraphim as the Day 2 lynch based on Maru’s flip.

I don’t see that as Town play at all. He ignored the Maru wagon until it was impossible to do so then jumped on and tried to paint one of Maru’s biggest detractors as scum.

So even based on this, there are three scum either voting thier GF, or not.

Why do you keep calling Maru the scum team Godfather? There is no evidence at all that he had any investigation immunity at all. In fact if you believe IPie’s report (which I do, BTW) then in fact Maru was clearly not investigation immune since he appeared front and center in IPie’s list of Non-Humans.

Are all three on the wagon? If not, there is one off the wagon. I know it's not me, and Twisted claimed previous miller, leaving Capt Corp and MIA Cojin. Since you've replaced in for Cojin, I'd like to hear your thoughts on the "Where is 3 scum?" question.

I very much doubt all three were there. Basic Mafia psychology says the odds are slim. MoIputer technology would say that two scum were on and two scum were off with Maru scum already being known for being off the wagon. After filtering out myself and my Town reads my suspect pools are

On Wagon (2 players)- Bogre, Starbuck, SleepyKrew, TheJakalope, Chronopie, ace5993
Off Wagon (1 player) – Peregrine, Captian Corp.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@MoI - Why is IPie town again?

Because I say he is. Are you trying to say not fully disclosing my Town read on the slot is scummy? Please be clear.

While we are on the subject - who are your Town reads and why are they Town?

Expand on this please.

Already done in my response to Chrono.

You voted CC because he was the most viable wagon out of your top scum picks but this was your only point on him.

Your point?

Are you saying I shouldn’t vote a viable wagon of a candidate I find scummy?

I just condensed 21 pages of content into a single catch-up post and you want to play “Count the references”? Very weak attempt to insinuate scumminess Ace.

Yet CC ended up in your shortlist of scum while Chrono and Peregrine were both leaning town (note my first quote in this post). Your other point on him was ignoring Maru at the beginning of the day, which then turned out to extend throughout the entire day. How do you have a leaning town read on him again?

Yes, that’s correct. After what I read Day 2 CC catapulted up higher than either of them. Again, your point?

Sera wagon isn't flying right now and all this deserves a vote so Unvote, Vote: MoI.

To put in some sort of response on the case on me, it looks like MoI's main points of attack are me not being as suspicious of Maru earlier in the game and my case on Seraphim (which includes all the controversy over that one Maru quote). I think the best response I can come up with is that I wasn't as suspicious of Maru earlier in the game and I think Seraphim is scum. The case isn't completely contrived like the one on CC (also note MoI's STILL not voting me, even after Sera did), but it's pretty weak and I don't think he wanted anyone other than CC to get lynched today.

Again I love the “He’s not voting me” line. I’m not voting Starbuck either but like yourself her play is scummy. I only have one vote at a time. I wish I could vote all three of you simultaneously.

Your explanation is that you weren’t suspicion until it was absolutely obvious that Maru was the lynch for the day. Nice. As much likely to come from bussing scum as anyone else. Thanks for making your stance clear.

I’ll just file this down response and vote as “Oh shit, that slot suddenly suspects me. Better rev up the good old fashioned ‘Insinuate he’s scummy’ engine and hope I can distract from my now pointed out play” tactic.

[MagnaofIllusion]

But you have town reads of the two people who jumped on the wagon (IPie, Sera), with a scum read on Starbuck, who started the wagon and thus doesn't fit in to your theory. Oh wait. IPie? Sera? Can't vote your scumbuddies even when logic and good reasoning leads you right to them eh?

I had been on Sera's case all game up to that point and was happy I had finally proven him as scum. Maru was scum also by the same reasoning but it wasn't through finding Maru scum that I found Sera scum, it was by first proving that Sera was scum and using information from that to figure out Maru had to be scum also. So saying I tried to paint Sera as scum through Maru is horribly wrong.

1. Keep dodging and linking Sera. I notice you carved a single sentance out of my large response to try to paint as scummy. Nice selective quoting Ace. As I said -

Just because it was RVS doesn’t make it meaningless. I can point to two recent games I played in where ‘RVS’ wagons appeared that reached pretty significant numbers (Dr. Who Mini Theme where 5 votes appeared on Zang and ooba’s recent Song of Fire and Ice Large Theme where at least 7 votes appeared on SaintK). In both cases scum were pretty late on both wagons, with the bonus that the SaintK wagon was a scum-fueled counter RVS wagon to Vezok as scum.

Had you compiled one more quick RVS vote on you I’d be almost assured that at least 1 scum was on that wagon for certain. As it stands I’m thinking Starbuck has a good chance to be that scum anyway

.

I've bolded the part which that you scummily left out in trying to craft you argument. Scumtastic Ace.

2. What exactly have you proven again? That scum have Daytalk and Seraphim is scum because of this. I like how you ignore quite properly what was brought out about Maru by Chronopie which pretty much assures that scum don't have Daytalk -

a bolded notice in a scum-QT saying to not talk

It must be killing you that a non-performing slot suddenly is pushing you and your buddies. I understand your frustration. Nothing is more annoying then suddenly having the rug pulled out from under you but a now active slot.

Let's have some more well deserved Ace votes please!!!

[MagnaofIllusion]

You don't necessarily need to give reasons for every town read but when you say "this person is town and should never be voted" then yes, you need reasons.

The reasons were pretty clear but I’ll elaborate on this –

IPie’s reaction to Twisted (who you call near confirmed Town) Day 2 and his play in relation to Maru Day 1 (who he claimed to have the equivalent of a Cop guilty on) are absolutely all that needs to be said in regards to IPie solid Town.

Jak - Confirmed by claim.
TS - Pretty much confirmed by claim, numerous good yet misguided attempts at scumhunting.
Starbuck - Very town reaction to the Maru wagon, a gradual and logical progression of suspicion. Scum would have jumped right on if they were going to bus, as I believe everyone else did.
PeregrineV - A ton of unique and good posts, don't see scum playing this hard.

1. How is Jak alignment confirmed by claim again? He’s not yet. The only confirmed part of his claim is his ability to make Bones ash. That’s not alignment driven.
2. Regarding Starbuck – disagree completely. Her play re Maruchan reads much more like a bus.
3. Regarding Peregrine – Playing hard is a Town tell? Lulz, no.

Fair enough regarding the catchup post/not necessarily posting everything that makes CC scummy but again, if you are going to vote him reasons are needed.

I gave you more than sufficent reasons in my posts. Feel free to keep declaring things that aren’t facts but your personal opinion of matters.

Here's the part I "scummily left out"... wait how is this relevant to what I posted? If anything it only adds to my case - the first sentence is a BS reason as to how you superseded your earlier logic (even though I've been posting about it it's meaningless), and the second one is saying Starbuck is scum, although she started the wagon and thus could not have anticipated the wagon forming. In RVS wagons the first vote is just a vote, the other people form the wagon.

Actually the whole quote was what you scummily left out but the bolded was the most important part.

No … it doesn’t strengthen your case at all. I clearly say that “IF (notice this important word) one more quick vote appeared on Chrono then scum would be there for sure”. The Starbuck is scum isn’t driven by that particular my observation … it’s driven by all the other scummy behaviors I posted regarding Starbuck in my catch-up stage.

[MagnaofIllusion]

In general I’d like anyone to note Ace’s genereal play at this stage.

He immediately votes me as scum based solely on my suspicion of him. We have a back and forth where he really doesn’t answer any of my questions regarding whether things he is softly trying to assert as scummy via language choice are in fact are.

He then abandons attacking my play directly and starts attacking Seraphim (who he earlier abandoned because the wagon wasn’t viable) on things like ‘he’s voting too many people’ and attempting to tie me too him as “You two are Scum Partners”.

And his pushes are pretty bad. Consider Serpahim’s 572 where he more or less proves that Ace absolutely fabricated his “You’ve never pushed Chronopie” statement.

@Ace

– please provide an summary case of what about my play is scummy and warrants a vote (since you have still parked yours on me). I’d like to directly confront your accusations. It certainly doesn’t have to be verbose.

So it's not just because of your claim,

it's because it can't co-exist with Maru's on the same team.

It is also basically confirmed that you aren't lying about your abilities as I've mentioned above.

I want you to explain how exactly the bolded is true at all. Or is this more of your patented “Set-up speculation” that I’ve seen before?

Yeah in for Sera/MoI today, we can wait on IPie to prove his role (even though he's still probably scum regardless).

1. Why would you care if IPie’s slot was to prove his role if he was scum regardless? That’s not Town oriented thought at all.
2. IPie’s slot hasn’t claimed anything that isn’t already confirmed in thread. What exactly are you waiting for that slot to claim?

--

VOTE: peg

i think you calling maru godfather was a scumslip.

I understand your line of thinking but I don’t think Peregrine is the best lynch today. Please move your vote to Ace.

--

Re-read Ace-Sera again. Sera's posting is generally scummy to me, so it's no suprise that Ace voted him out the gate day2.

I just read the full game on replacing in. I’ve got ISO reads to do (Chronopie currently) but I want to know why Ace voting for Seraphim is relevant to what I am saying at all. Please explain.

Vote orders for the two:
Day1
Ace-->Pere-Sera-Maru
Sera-->Chrono-Sleepy-Maru-Maru

Day2
Ace----> Sera-Jak-InflatPie-Sera
Sera---> Jak-CaptCorp-InflatPie-Chrono-Ace

How is this relevant at all? It completely ignores timeframe (Seraph’s first three votes were in the first two pages while Ace’s Maru vote came at the virtual last second).

Are you trying to say voting for people is scummy? If so please demonstrate how his particular votes are scummy. I’ve done that on my end for Ace.

Game mixup. It's ongoing Large Theme, but you can find it if you try.

Ok … so it was a mix-up. I’d like you to address how this changes your position about where scum might be on wagons given your initial push (would scum all bus their Godfather) was incorrect.

Not getting that. Spent more time calling Maru town than anything else I can find.

It is based on the premise that scum are more likely to not strongly defend a sinking ship partner. That’s the general site meta and why on reading Day 1 I didn’t think both Twisted and CC could both be scum (since they both more or less defended him). I agree with you that CC is possible scum but don’t see Seraph’s logic as anything out of the ordinary.

It seems like your ability to find scum-teams is based on their level of suspicion of you.

In light of this comment I want to know why your think Ace is Town since his ‘ability to find scum’ is based on my suspicion of him.

A. Asked and answered twice.
B. Bogre finally votes someone else and so you do too?

FoS: TwistedSpoon

Twisted is almost exclusively Town. Don’t bother putting suspicion on him.

What exactly was your point with B? Bogre voted for Seraphim. Twisted voted for you. I don’t see what you find suspicious about that.

--

...bringing back someone dead to life in a ZOMBIE GAME?

I don't like this. Giving himself an out for a flip: 'oh, I was convinced' and then the sudden, unpopular nursing suspicions.

Unvote VOTE: seraphim

His posts just continue to not add up.

So based on these back to back posts do you think Seraphim is scum with CC? If so why drop in the first quote at all? And why not vote CC in that case since that wagon is more viable.

In fact regardless I’d like you to explain what your scum-hunting process is with the first quote.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Twisted

– Your Peregrine vote sin't productive at this stage. You aren’t going to build a wagon with that reasoning. Join us on Ace.

--

Well, I said I read the postings between Ace and Sera again. And that I still find Sera's postings scummy. But I also mentioned that I haven't placed him as full-on actual scum yet. And he's even responded as to his reasons for that in post 569, so not sure what you want explained.

You’ve completely dodged around the topic of why I’ve labelled Ace scummy. I presented it in a clear consise fashion and you keep coming back to “Look at the Ace and Seraphim postings”. My read on Ace is completely independent of Seraphim … it’s based on his scummy play surrounding Maru.

Do you disagree with my conclusion regarding his Maru vote? If so please explain why he gets Town points from you for that uber-late vote on a dead man walking. I see the “posts leading up to it” explanation and I don’t see that. He basically set the stage after Maru was a dead man.

It's another form of voting analysis. Using vote counts only shows the snapshot at that point in time. Stuff happens between them.
What I'm saying is these are the people Sera and Ace voted for over the last two days. It's information for the town to use.

It’s fluffery at this stage. I agree that stuff happenes between vote counts but this list provides no depth or timing to said votes.

It doesn't.
I find it hard to beleive all 3 scum were voting Maru. Maybe they were. But I think at least one wasn't. Hint: I'm voting him.

Then what was the point of specifying he was a Godfather (incorrectly) in your original post? Because if the fact he wasn’t doesn’t change your analysis I don’t see the reason you didn’t just say “Do you think scum would all bus a buddy Day 1”. It reads to me as trying to increase the importance of your observation in a manner that isn’t Town.

I just don't buy the argument that "Player X can't be scum because scum would never do that."

This looks very bad when I consider your “Scum would never all vote for an obv-partner” stance you are trying to float, which is essentially that exact argument applied to a group as opposed to an individual. It looks like you are inconsistent in what your 'core Mafia values' are in a way I find suspect.

I think he might be town because he follows the normal town patterns.
And did you ISO him to see if he suspect list changes as he receives votes?

The first line is meaningless, IMO. What exactly is a ‘normal Town pattern”?

I read Ace’s posting. He repeatedly sits Cojin on the bottom of his Top Scum tier lists while voting pushing others. He even says that Cojin “gets a pass for now”. Suddenly, however, when I show up and push him I’m a top suspect.

Reads completely as scum stashing a lurker Town on his suspect list and hoping to vote them later down the line while more active players can be attacked.

Not sure why he's "almost exclusively town".

Of course you aren’t. Must be tough not knowing why he is almost confirmed Town, huh.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@MOD – Any progress with replacing IPie?

It’s difficult to operate down a Town voice when there are still 3 scum alive and kicking.

--

Main issue: I see a lot of logical thoughts from you that you then instantly back up on by either ignoring them or attempting to invalidate them with an illogical thought.

Ok, I did say you didn’t have to be verbose but this is not sufficient.

List said logical thoughts. You say a lot. I’d like a list that has more than 1 on it.

Maruchan's role involved keeping bones as bones to gain abilities.
TheJakalope's role involves changing bones to ash to gain abilities.

So yes it's setup speculation but probably the least complicated I've ever come up with :p

Oh, so your premise is that in a 9-4 game (which is scum-weighted on just raw numbers) that scum wouldn’t possibly have trade-offs that they would have to consider when making decisions?

Maru couldn’t be resurrected without being immediately killed again as his alignment was already confirmed as Scum. So transforming him to Ash really isn’t a downside to scum anyway.

1. His vig shot (if it is real) lets us gain an earlier flip.
2. Uhh... the vig shot? It's fairly easy for scum to claim 1-shot vig.

It is a Vig shot that is specified to work only on Non-humans per his claim. So how do you expect it to be universally provable?

And IPie’s slot is confirmed Town anyway (100%) via the other portion of his powers. So your continued suspicion of him is another scum-point for you.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Of course there was a reason you unvoted,

you rolled with a better looking wagon someone else (me in this instance) started

. CC (much later) became a town read because of his Maru defense. However that was also why you thought he was town before you voted him, so apparently the reason was only invalid while he looked like the best wagon.

The bolded is 100% scum making it up as he goes along.

Earlier note that Ace was banging on me for not voting for him. Thus I couldn't have started said wagon on Ace since I was voting someone else.
Yet now he's trying to call Seraphim scum for not starting the wagon. Yet he was the first vote on it.

Inconsistent stances ahoy!

Also note that he's admitting in the bolded that his wagon is more attractive. Aka he is acknowledging that his play is scummy.

More Ace votes please!!!!!!

[MagnaofIllusion]

MoI: Ace is talking about the InfPie wagon, not the him(ace) wagon. Sometimes town has to sheep to get things done and InfPie had lurked enough(and his Bogre push was suspicious enough) for me to vote him.

Ok, I see what you are saying ... it was an awkwardly formed sentance.

@Everyone

- 588 isn't valid since it was premised on a mis-read of Ace's comment.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Welcome Ethos …

--

Illogical conclusion, you didn't use your wagon analysis to help form your reads at all, you just posted it. The wagon analysis was by far the best part of your original reads post. Also while you claimed to have found stuff on CC during day 2 that made you vote him the only stuff you have pointed out happened after you got on his wagon.

Aha … so you’ve pulled my end of Day 1 wagon analysis and are trying to say my reads at the end of my Day 2 read-through ignore them. Not illogical at all to have my Day 1 reads shaped by Day 2 play.

As you said yourself when challenged by Seraphim on your ‘Scum wouldn’t push Maru that hard” statement your retracted – more recent information has provided more details that lead to my conclusions. So I’m curious why you are attacking me for something you yourself admit to doing.

You are reaching as demonstrated by the fact you keep harping on the fact that my catch-up post that spanned 21 pages of content didn’t have enough support for your liking. Again … my read on CC is that he is the more likely of the CC – Twisted two-some who is scum defending Maru. Since you and Starbuck were my other top scum picks (for different reasons) I voted for CC. I'll document as I wish when replacing into a game.

You keep saying that’s scummy. Appeal to Repition much?

--

Why was Chronopie not in your original "most likely to be bussing? This looks a little like you condensed and switched around your (better) list from earlier to fit with what your reads are.

So you pulled out my response to Peregrine where I filtered out my Town reads and are trying to say it’s inconsistent?

--

Attempt to discredit said logical thought because he realized it didn't jive with his reads.

Here you try to say my conclusion that a 3 person quick wagon in RVS isn’t as likely to be valid my observed 5 person (Mini) and 7 person (Large) wagons is scummy. Again .. you are trying to say they are apples to apples when clearly they are not. Which is the whole point of my discussion saying “Had one more person jumped on quickly … “ in the large parts of the discussion you tried to crop before.

EXTREMELY bad attempt to try to discredit one of his scum reads with a completely invalid reason anyway. Starbuck was first on the RVS wagon and thus didn't contribute to it's forming in the same way as the others.

Look … a flat out lie. My Starbuck is scum read had everything to do with her scummy play OUTSIDE the RVS wagon. You keep purposefully ignoring that in an attempt to manufacture an inconsistency that isn’t there. A very scummy appeal to repetition.

His vig shot is universally provable because he has a list of all the non-human players. The reason I'm thinking it might not be real/provable is because I suspect it just might coincide with the scum kill.

An yet if you were paying attention you would have realized that IPie (and Ethos confirms this) said only Maru and Twisted were on the list.

And funnily … why would scum be killing a Non-human member of their team again? That’s the bad logical premise you are making here … that scum would specifically use their Nightkill on one of their own members to fake a 1-shot Vig claim. That’s ludicrous. And if you are trying to say Ethos'es shot can be claimed the same as the Mafia Nightkill what happens when said Nightkill is a Human? Yes, your position is completely illogical.

Ah now this is wrong. I actually have EXTREME suspicions of his claim - it's basically a nearly confirmed guilty on Maruchan right out of the gate. Why do you think this is a town-use only ability? I could see many uses of it for scum. In addition, if he does have a vig shot (which doesn't confirm him as town either), then doesn't the list just tell him who he can kill?

1. No, it’s absolutely right. IPie’s play Day 1 and 2 in relation to his claims (voting for the non-Miller claim Maru on his list, his reaction to Twisted disappearing) make him absolutely confirmed Town. Ethos is even more confirmed than Twisted.

I know you are doing everything in your power to undermine the perception that Ethos is Town. It’s nicely inconsistent with your treatment of Jak’s claim which you say absolutely confirms him. Can’t have too many confirmed Town players … PoE is a bitch isn’t it.

But I’ll bite … name at least 1 scum use for his claimed Powers. I’m waiting.

I wasn't aware replacements are offered a free pass for some reason.

Oh really? You weren’t?

So yeah this is the second three after Sera/Pie/

cojin (who nevertheless gets a free pass for now obviously).

So why did Cojin get a free pass for now obviously? Was it his lack of suspicion of you? I’m guessing so.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So here is where I stand -

Town

- No chance currently I will be voting for any of these people. Even to prevent a No-Lynch.

Twistedspoon
Seraphim
InflatablePie

Middle Road

- People who I still have question outstanding for or are not in a scum pool based on a claim or other information I have

SleepyKrew
PeregrineV / Chronopie (one will move soon to my Scum list, both aren't likely Town together)
TheJakalope
Bogre

Scum list

- All are my top scum reads

Captain Corporal
Ace
Starbuck

I will happily vote anyone on my Scum list and will most probably vote those in the Middle Ground to prevent a no-lynch

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ok, I’m going to put together a clear case so those of you not scum can see why I suspect Ace so much.

Did Maruchan post after you had typed out the first half of the post or did you simply change your mind? Also Seraphim has already voted for three people (two for real reasons) and FoS'd another (for asking a bad random question?).

He acknowledges that Seraphim is voting for Maruchan for real game reasons (that Maru was advocating lynching Sleepy for his post restriction) by post 40 (when this occurred). This is important for later.

Note that the his position on why Seraphim is scummy is that he’s voted several people. Vote-hopping isn’t a scum-tell. Players like Fate, Sociopath and the rest of the SDC ‘crew’ prove that by doing it regardless of alignment. So the crux of his suspicion isn’t an actual tell.

Why the huge blowup about this? You severely overreacted to a statement that didn't even concern you. In fact the only way it was relevant to you at all was that you didn't agree with it. Would you say that you have this tendency to overreact in all your games? Yes, asking for self-meta here but only one completed game so lol. The only reason I ask is that I don't see this argument as necessarily being scummy.

What is a little bit more concerning is Maruchan's contrived latest reason for voting SleepyKrew. You voted him to get "interaction"? This is just a blatant lie. Flailing hard as newb-town I could see but making up lies as newb-town is far less likely. I could definitely see Maru being scum but I could also see Maru being town, and I'm not so sure I'm ready to support this wagon. I could easily see this being scum-driven.

Maruchan: If you are telling the truth here what interaction did you hope to gain from voting SK?

A rather large part of ISO 2 devoted to pointing out ways that Maru is scummy. Yet at the end of the second paragraph he retreats to fence-sitting on confirmed scum with by extending the Newb card and expressing that the wagon was ‘scum driven’.

I attacked you for vote-hopping because I feel voting (and FoS'ing in this case) for a bunch of people early in the game is a great way to say "A lot of people are scummy, I'm cool with any lynch that looks like it's going to fly".

What is the purpose of this question?

Anyway, I believe the person who needs pressure the most here is Vote: Seraphim

The rest of the ISO 2 post. Not that his reasoning for voting Seraphim is vote-hopping (as I express above is a Null tell unless he has concrete Meta for Seraphim). He specifically votes Seraphim (who had 1 vote) and ignores Maru’s wagon of 4 votes.

Despite the fact that he lists the following as scummy play of Maru as opposed to ‘vote hopping’ –

1. Over-reaction to the Daytalk statement (which he asserts that Maru shouldn’t care about since it should have ‘nothing to do with” Maru).
2. Maru’s blatant lie about his motivation for voting Sleepy.

I see this as soft distancing. He’s established more concrete reasons to vote Maru but goes out of his way to avoid the wagon. Had he voted for Maru at that stage he would have made it a 5 person wagon.

Also note he throws out the notion the early Maru wagon was scum driven. What is the make-up of said wagon?

Maruchan (4) - Seraphim, InflatablePie, Bogre, Starbuck

His Day 2 scum reads, aside from his OMGUS on me, happen to be Seraphim and IPie. So the scum driving the wagon happen to be the first two players on it when it is a scum lynch. And not any of the people who appear later on the wagon (where bussers appear). Does Not Compute.

Guys scum have daytalk and Sera has scumclaimed. Also Maru is obvscum since scum have daytalk. I have reason to believe Maru will be lynched with Vote: Maruchan. More soon, gotta go right now.

And here he actually votes Maru. No interaction with Maru in ISO 3. He didn’t follow up at all with his ‘questions’ to Maru in ISO 2. But he votes him. What has changed? Oh yes, the wagon …

Maruchan (7) - InflatablePie, Bogre, Starbuck, SleepyKrew, TheJakalope, Seraphim, Chronopie

Yup Maru has already hit the lynch threshold and has begun his VI-Derping in thread basically taunting everyone. Maru is clearly the lynch today. Ace’s vote appears at post 222. Go read the previous page or so yourself if you are so inclined.

Note that his post here is again more directed at Seraphim than Maru and attempts to link them together with some logic that the Mod himself refuted.

This beings a string of posts where Ace after the fact tried to justify that he was suspicious of Maru when he ignored him up to this point.

First consider Maru's overreaction to the daytalk question. If Maru's scum this points towards daytalk, he wasn't implying SleepyKrew as scum, there's no reason for someone to be geniunly concerned about the question, so there was no reason for him to act that way unless he's trying to make himself look more town. This clearly implies that if Maru is scum, then scum have daytalk. And after thinking about it, I don't see a town player making the statements he did.

Seraphim quote excised …

^he knows this is all true. You don't make an offhand statement implying scum have daytalk unless you know they do. Also "let me help with your fakeclaim, I'm on right now".

Also nice rolefish Maru.

Both of these posts are last ditch efforts to yield Town points while simulatanously linking Seraphim (who was a Main driver of the Maru wagon) to Maru as scum. Both which came before the actual flip.

Ask yourself this – would a Town player be 100% certain of the flip before Mod announced? Of course not. Maybe 99% certain (it was pretty obv from Maru’s play) but with that 1% of doubt based on possible VI play. I’d expect Town making these linking posts to be using language like “if Maru flips scum then ..” in generating these associations.

But Ace is absolutely solid in his assessment … as a scum partner would be.

Now Ace beings Day 2 immediately voting Seraphim. His assertion is that Seraphim is a partner pretty much solely based on his Mod busted “Daytalk” assertion. This is important for what occurs soon after. Who are his scum reads starting the Day?

Scum

Cojin
InflatablePie
Seraphim
TheJakalope

So he’s picked an uber-lurker (who doesn’t appear in his ISO at all before this post and safe suspect), the two biggest drivers of the Maru wagon (so therefore they are the best candidates for bussing? Those on Maru from page 2? DOES NOTE COMPUTE) and Jakalope who was pretty much a consensus Scum read Day 1 (aka another safe suspect).

These reads make no sense from a Town perspective.

Vote: TheJakalope, yeah obviously Sera and Pie aren't happening and this is much preferable to a TS lynch. Also it just realized that Jakalope and Sera probably aren't scum together though since Sera probably wouldn't bus Jakalope this much after Maru yesterday.

Here is his second vote Day 2. Note that he votes the popular candidate (Jak) over his scum-reads and his ISO prior to that only lists Jak in ISO 8 with the sole reasoning “I found him scummy”.

Why am I bringing this up? Because it shows Ace’s complete Cognitive Dissonance.

Re-read his attacks on my regarding my vote for CC. They are as follows –

1. I didn’t provide enough ‘evidence’ in my posts as to why I found CC scummy.
2. I was voting the top wagon when I had other stronger candidates.

Yet here Ace is doing exactly those exact things. He's provided no reasons why he suspects Jak and is voting a Top wagon despite having a 'stronger' candidate in Seraphim. Pure Cognitive Dissonance – if he was being intelletucally honest in his attacks he would have more support for his Jak vote if he was Town.

Which is why he’s not.

Uh no, we're not lynching him after that claim, sorry. Incidentally, potash is a real thing. Unvote, Vote: InflatablePie.

So he’s jumped on the Jak wagon to help push it to a claim. His only question to Jak before this? “Why was today a better day to claim than yesterday”.

Despite that he immediately jumps off the wagon claiming the “Potash is a real thing”. Let’s examine that. How does Ace know that?

If his role revolves around Potash it stands to reason that probably Jak is of opposing aligment since they have role mechanics that operate form the same limited pool. His reaction makes no sense in this case.

If his role doesn’t how does he know it is real in game-context? His reaction doesn’t make any sense in this case either.

And he votes for IPie instead of Seraphim the person he said was confirmed scum by his ‘Daytalk’ theory. Doesn’t make sense if he is Town to move away from the player he thinks is confirmed scum.

Also – no questions or scum-hunting efforts to IPie day 1 or 2 … just a one liner about IPie’s case not being good.

So you ask why he votes for IPie over Seraphim (confirmed scum to him?). Because IPie has a vote and Seraphim has none. Aka choosing the top wagon which once again he has claimed I am scummy for doing.

I’ve run out of time for the moment. I continue this ISO breakdown for everyone either tonight or tomorrow to continue to show demonstrate Ace’s scumminess.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MoI you ignored my question too.

No, I answered eveyting you asked. Read the fucking thread and stop whining.

Seriously I let you get away with being a lazy player in Execution because it helped my cause. Here you are starting to piss me off royally if you are Town.

Now if you are scum I understand why you are being a non-content providing lump. That's a great tactic, especially when others are slacking also (Bogre, Chronopie).

You aren't getting a Twisted or Ethos lynch. Give up on crying about those 'scum-reads'.

[MagnaofIllusion]

PEDIT: HEY MAGUA ANSWER MY QUESTION
UNVOTE:
VOTE: ace
PEDIT 2: I can't find your answer. Quote it for me?

How about I link you to the rather extensive post?

Right Here. Now if it is a different question quote it so I can see if I also answered it.

Also, thanks for ticking up the number in my sig ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

Also, I don't suspect Ethos, and you may notice I've been one of the most proactive players all game.

I went back and looked at your last 'Scum list' and you are right it didn't list Ethos. Your odd comments when Ethos replaced in about "2 Zombiebiebers for the price of one" or whatnot looked like an indication of suspicion.

Please don't try to sell activity = Town to me Sleepy. You know very well that I don't buy that.

But your Ace vote is solid so you stay in my good graces for the moment.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Eh I'll claim since it's almost deadline. I'm Shaun from Shaun of the Dead, Dedicated Grave Vote Proxier. I know that Ed (also from Shaun of the Dead) is in the game and is voteless. If I die, he gains my vote.

For anyone who is Shaun of the Dead savy ... is Ed a zombie in the movie at any point?

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Voteless Player

– Now is your absolute last chance to claim you are Voteless Town and not have it be considered a lie. A breadcrumb supported said claim would also be helpful. This is the sort of information Town provides in their first post aka Miller.

WTH is with all the sudden shift away from Ace?

--

MoI, you seem to have a massive issue with this in most of your games as well and is probably one of your biggest pitfalls.

Because I know you are Town I’m not going to bother arguing with you on this but clearly you didn’t read my case on Ace where I explained scum motivation for his play.

Aces claim is role-confirmable if Ed is indeed town and claims now and to be perfectly honest I'm leaning towards both Shuan and Ed being town, flavor wise it would make perfect sense (Them working together to take out the zombies) and although it would mean move wise the game starts 8 v 4 the revival aspect would likely balance it out.

1. Ace’s role being confirmable means nothing about his alignment.
2. Flavor argument in a Nikanor game? No … that doesn’t fly. Kingdom of Loathing Mafia and Reboot Mafia are right now pointing at that statement and laughing. Assuming Ace is Town based solely on flavor is a one-way ticket to Fails-ville.

--

MoI, the question is "why would I know you dislike fakeclaiming?"

Are you seriously asking me this question? Execution Mafia is now over. Consider the implication about what Fake-claiming of guilty results can result in and get back to me if you are still confused.

No night kill is not a mechanic.

Actually it is for the purposes of balancing. See Seinfeld Mafia where the scum didn’t have a Nightkill (and still swept the bastards) as a balancing measure in a 9-4 game.

--

I'd never thought of it but Ed is NOT confirmed town in my PM. I suppose it's possible he's scum, and taking a vote away from scum because there are more than usual makes sense. The flavor fits (zombie in the movie, but still friends with Shaun).

1. So you knew for certain what was going on Day 1 with Maru not being hammered but didn’t say a single thing about it?
2. You didn’t even question whether Ed, who you have stated ends up a Zombie in the movie, is Town?
3. Arguing flavor = alignment in a Nikanor Theme game? No.
--

Why does scum need to be weakened? Do they have an otherwise powerful role that the overall team needs to be weakened?

It’s a 9-4 game. Scum have to be weakened in some form or fashion or Town has to be INCREADIBLY strong under normal circumstances with a starting spread.

@Ace- How can Ed be a zombie if he's not on the non-human list that ethos has?

Well given Maru was the Bonerdagon ( a giant Dragon made of bones ) why do you think Zombies (which start as humans) would show up on said list?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Well, zombies would only show up on his list if we believe him.
Do you believe him?

I absolutly believe him. Ethos is 100% confirmed Town via his play. You obviously aren't reading my posts since I've said that repeatedly.

The question is - why don't you believe given IPie's Day 1 play in regard to Maru and his Day 2 interactions with Twisted?

[MagnaofIllusion]

What I'm trying to prove: Ace's claim is true and he is town.

I’m not going to quote your whole post I’m just going to summarize my thoughts.

Not willing to agree with your conclusion. Ace’s claim fits nicely with what we know happened yesterday (actual 12 votes in play, 7 to lynch, 1 person on the wagon is voteless). Ace’s play in regards to his claim doesn’t fit so nicely.

1. Town Ace should have told us well before being forced to claim about the fact that someone out there was voteless. That’s not Town behavior.
2. Calling Ace Town via role completely ignores all his behavioral play in regards to Maru and myself …. his ‘looks like a bus’ vote and severe Cognititve Dissonance.

Meanwhile I agree that the lack of “I’m voteless” claim means said voteless person is scum.

I think Ace’s claim is a fake-claim that he’s using to avoid making his real claim and is embellished with his knowledge of his scum-teammate lacking a vote. I can also see Voteless scum getting said vote when his partner goes Down as being balanced ... scum can never have more than 3 votes in that set-up.

GUYS WE ARE IN SERIOUS DANGER OF A NO LYNCH. WE NEED MORE POSTING AND MORE VOTING IMMEDIATELY.

Yes, which is why voting Ace is the more logical play.

We’ve already wagonned two players to claim today (Jak and Ace). We are definitely close to deadline.

What happens when Chronopie make a claim? Especially if said claim is more generally Town-positive than Ace’s. Are you going to lynch him because “Hey, it’s deadline”.

Sorry … stringing claims together like this is bad policy for Town.

Meanwhile look at Ace's reaction to my big case. He didn't even attempt to say it was wrong, point anything out about it that was wrong, or challenge my conclusions. He just threw down a half-hearted claim that I don't see being backed by his play.

Losing Ace’s role, even if he is Town, isn’t the end of the world. Via VC analysis and other means we can probably pretty clearly find the scum no-voter tomorrow. And we both think they are Scum.

I’ll keep an eye on the clock but I really don’t think rushing a deadline lynch on someone who hasn’t been pushed all day is a smart move.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@MoI- scum started with 2 humans, a corpse, and a Skeleton, if we go by what Ethos is saying. If the rest of the town is human, then they are three levels from real-death and two from vote-loss. I don't see the need to "balance" anything by removing a vote from them.
In essence, no matter what Ace is (and I still think town), I think Ed is the same alignment (town).

1. Where exactly do you get the 'Corpse' element? Ethos'es list had Maru (Skeleton) and Twisted (claimed Miller). Nothing about a corpse. Do I see some inside information leaking out here? I think I do.
2. How you are judging the Balance the game without knowing the set-up is a mystery to me. Town shouldn't be of the opinion that removing a vote from Scum wouldn't be needed for balancing ... Town should be open to the possibility that it a possibility. Scum on the other hand, knowing approximately 33% of the set-up, knows much better.
3. I agree with your last sentance ... except both Ace and mystery Non-Voter are scum and not Town.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Actually, MoI, let's compromise.

Let's lynch Peregrine instead.

Both Peregrine and Chronopie fall in my "Will vote to avoid Mislynch" group. I will do so as necessary. Get the troops into position and I'll make my move.

Til then I'm keeping my vote parked on the now lurking Ace-scum.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Maruchan (8) - InflatablePie, Bogre, Starbuck, SleepyKrew, TheJakalope, Seraphim, Chronopie, ace5993

Ok, time for some PoE on the unvoting ...

I'm removing IPie from this list. He's proven his abilities to my satisfaction.
Ace can't be the no-voter because as said hammer actually working.
For the moment I consider Jakalope clear as his conversion of Maru to Ashes is unchallenged and nothing in the rules specifies that Bones turn to Ash on their own. Not absolute (as I expect the voteless to have other powers) but given the provable abilities in the claim he's here for the moment.

That leaves Bogre, Starbuck, Sleepy, Seraphim, and Chronopie as suspects.

It also clears Twisted, Peregrine, myself and CC as being the Voteless.

Once today's lynch goes through we can do more analysis.

[MagnaofIllusion]

1. Except for that time when I said I had good reason to believe that my vote would be the hammer on Maru? Are we not counting that?
2. No, I didn't.
3. Yes.

1. Who would not have expected the next vote to be the hammer? You can’t seriously be saying that comment is the equivalent of “Hey Guys .. my role PM says that someone out there doesn’t have a vote so we should be careful around deadlines that we don’t get screwed”. That’s kind of thing that Town with that information does.
2. Noted.
3. Ok, I see. Nikanor is renowned for mixing source flavor in his games. For example – Kingdom of Loathing had the Accordian Thief and Pastamancer (two canonical heroes) as Mafia, 4 other canonical heroes as Town, and several canonical monsters as Town. Reboot Mafia had Dot and Enzo Matrix as Mafia. Trying to say “Hey, I’m Shaun from Shaun of the Dead” and suggesting that makes you confirmed Town is funny.

As for your "case" that I ignored - Yes I voted TheJakalope, did that really need to be explained further based on what had happened in thread? Admittedly perhaps I should have reiterated what other people had said that I agreed with but it is NOT the same as what you have done with CC because I did not list reasons to make others believe that he was likely to be town. It's not like it came out of the blue because he was on my scum list earlier that day.

No, it was exactly the same thing. Cognitive Dissonace ahoy!

BTW, potash is real via... it being real? In the real world? I'm doubting TheJakalope would go "oh yeah, let's fakeclaim a role around potash" when creating a fakeclaim. I don't need to know if it exists in game to confirm that Jakalope isn't lying about his abilities.

1. Um, so what it if it real? Has nothing to do with it being in the game.
2. Dismissing that the Mod provided fake-claims? Noted.
3. So what if it exists … it confirming Jakalope doesn’t absolutely confirm his aligment. Again .. nice stretch.

Lurking for... 12 hours... overnight? Half of your claims aren't worthy of being responded to because they're flat-out lies.

Oh wait ... you had time to drop a "I'll claim" post but couldn't actually take the time to 'refute' my case. Yeah ... that's not flying.

No, they aren’t. Scum love to pull the “I’ll just call it bullshit since I’ve been busted” card.

I note you skirt around the bulk of my case in this response.

1. That the timing of your Maru vote and subsequent 'I'll now make a case' posts look like a bus.
2. That you show Cognitive Dissonance in your attacks on me.
3. That your scum-list Day 2 makes no sense form a Town perspective in light of the Day 1 flip.
4. That your suspicion of Seraphim as 'confirmed scum' doesn't match your actions.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Your last content post was a full week and about 200 posts (aka 8 pages) ago.

Don't give me this 'It's too hard to read and post' crap. I caught up with 21 pages in a couple of hours.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So now Chrono has claimed to be a Resurrecting role. I don’t see Town as likely to have two resurrection roles. Chrono’s claim I find more compelling of the two between CC and Chrono based on the detail of his claim and his crumbs.

After looking at Ace’s

692

can we just fucking kill it with fire? Dear god I feel like the one-eyed man in the land of the blind.

I eagerly await Ace’s answer to Seraphim’s question in 694.

In the meantime – pile those votes back on Ace please.

His weak-ass “I’m Shuan of the dead who grants my vote to ‘Ed’ when I die’ is so bare-bones compared to every other claim it couldn’t be more clear it was fake.

--

Each person is different. If I fall behind, it usually takes me a bit to catch up.

Well, how convenient for you that you return and need ‘awhile’ to catch-up when deadline is in approximately 24 hours.

--

@MoI
How do you know for certainty that scum have no Nightkill?

I don’t. I was showing you an example of another game which had No Nightkills. It’s a possibility we should not be dismissing out of hand until more evidence presents itself.

--

Well, one of my reasons would be the voteless Ed. Ed may be a voteles human, but apparently the Bones state is also voteless.

What is the point of this? Ace is claiming that he knows a player is Voteless based solely on role, not based on the secondary game mechanics.

I don't believe Twisted's claim. I do believe he was non-human(corpse), and I think scum have their own reviver.

What don’t you believe about his claim specifically?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Mod – Starting at 4pm EST today I will be V/LA until Saturday the 24th. I will be out of the country and may have zero internet access.

--

I'm not aware of Nikanors previous flavour meta but if you could give me a brief run down of it I'd appreciate it otherwise I'll read through them later.

Here’s the TL-DR version: Nikanor has a direct penchant for subverting source flavor when assigning roles to Town and Scum.

In Kingdom of Loathing Mafia he assigned Hero roles to Scum and Monster roles to Town (along with other, more traditional flavor assignments).

In Reboot Mafia 2/3rds of the Mafia team were protagonists from the series and teamed with their direct nemesis.

Thus you can’t take any flavor at face value when saying “I think Shaun and Ed are both Town based on the source flavor”.

--

Excessive rolecrumbing is certainly NOT a towntell, once would be enough (please tell me you caught those crumbs before Chrono claimed), and zero is nothing to be concerned about.

No, I didn’t catch the crumbs. I wasn’t looking for them. What is the point of that statement. When I saw them I went back to look at the original placement. And looked at context of them. I believe they are valid.

Of course excessive role-crumbing isn’t a Town-tell … it certainly isn’t a scum-tell either. But certainly combined with a provable claim (ability to move Corpse to Bones and Ressurect Bones) I find it interesting that you dismiss it immediately. That was one of the reasons you believe in Jak’s claim so much.

The other was that his role conflicted with Maru’s. And wouldn’t you know … Chrono’s claim does also (deprives Maru of Bones to use via Resurrection). But you are unsurprisingly taking an inconsistent position regarding Chrono’s claim.

Could you be any more directly scummy?

Have you crumbed your role FOUR times MoI? (That's rhetoric by the way, just to preempt the LOLROLEFISH claims).

At least you are up-front about adding scummy rhetoric to your posts to pad out your weak positions.

Oh yeah it's totally fake because I made it so obvious I had no idea what was going on with the hammer yesterday. NEW RULE EVERYONE NEEDS 46 DIFFERENT POWERS FOR THEIR CLAIM TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY, EVEN IF THE POWER WAS CRUMBED AND EXPLAINS PREVIOUS HAPPENINGS IN THE GAME. Are you fucking serious? It's one thing to say I'm scum but how can you possibly think I'm lying about my powers? What's the alternative scenario?

I do think you are scum lying about your powers. That’s what scum do.

Alernate scenario? Um you have very scum-beneficial powers that would damn you immediately so you cobbled together your claim. It’s not rocked science Ace.

I love the over-the-top faked emotional Caps Rage Ace. It is a nice touch throwing down what is clearly a tantrum in an attempt to get people to say "Scum don't act like that".

@Debate about Ed's human/other status - I don't think he's a corpse as when I die he gains a vote and I'm pretty sure corpses cannot vote.

No he couldn’t be a Zombie (which I’m guessing is discrete from Corpse as Skeleton was discrete from Bones) in a Zombie themed game …

How are we not lynching this?

[MagnaofIllusion]

I note with no amount of surprise the absolute difficulty in building a wagon of size on Ace.

If you have any doubts that he's a good lynch go back any look at how quickly the Chronopie wagon exploded. It suddenly surged into the lead over Ace's immediately.
Now juxtapose that with Ace's wagon that despite his obv-scum play can't seem to build to the appropriate lynch.

Then ask yourself ... what alignment player in this setup has two partners remaining to help fight off Ace's lynch by pushing a counterwagon near deadline or simply not voting for him and allowing their vote to sit uselessly?

Meanwhile what alignment of player is much more susceptible to sudden bad pushes at deadline?

Ace is clearly scum. Let's actually get this done.

@Peregrine

- your abandoning of Ace's valid wagon for Chronopie while Ace was at L-1 is noted.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Sigh ... hopefully Borge turns out scum ... I would really have liked a chance to see what he and Starbuck had to say ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ok so where were we … that’s right I pushed the Ace-scum wagon through when I was last here …

When I have more hours I will sit down and do some VC work regarding the Ace wagon and counterwagons.

Once I get a few answers to the questions in this post I’m dropping my vote on Bogre in all likelihood.

--

@Starbuck

– Do you have anything to say for yourself today?

--

@Everyone

– anyone who wants to claim the Jakalope kill as Town needs to do so IMMEDIATELY in their next post. I know this has been asked before but I’m repeating it because it is important.

--

Then you also noted that I put him at L-1. This gives me the right to fully remove him from L-1.

So you basically dropped an L-1 vote on scum and immediately moved it off to an alternate wagon … why aren’t you scum again? Make it a good explanation.

--

I really don’t like Sleepy’s unsolicted claim for reasons that some of you should understand. But I love Peregrine’s reaction to a Mason claim … undermining it immediately is what scum in his position would absolutely have to do.

[MagnaofIllusion]

My claim wasn't on purpose MoI <.<
wb

I know ... what bothers me about it has nothing to do with the mistake. But clearly it isn't troublesome enough for me to bother looking to much at it given that we have Starbuck / Bogre / Peregrine (where I think the last 2 scum reside) floating around.

We run through all three of them and the game isn't over? Then I will circle back (if still alive).

[MagnaofIllusion]

Sorry to hear that Nik ...

Still wanting to hear from people (specifically Starbuck) before dropping the vote on Bogre.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Mod - Starting at 4pm EST today I will be V/LA until Saturday the 24th. I will be out of the country and may have zero internet access.

Twisted this should answer your question. I was in Mexico at a resort with very limited access to the internet and even less free time to fiddle with the computer.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I'll be voting Peregrine today since my guess is that Bogre is the counterpart to Ace based on their common source material and role descriptions.

What does everyone think of the possibility of a Mass-claim? I'd like everyone to speak on that issue before we start voting. No need to rush things.

Also I have some information I want to share regarding things going on behind the scenes.

Lastly -

@SK

- This is the last chance for you to retract your "I'm a Mason" claim. If you don't want to it is fine but I want it clear that doing it after you next post will be looked upon poorly.

@Ethos

- really curious about your report today.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I also have an ability called thriller where if I die, I bring all other dead players back to life as the corresponding undead.

GAH!!! Do Not Like!!!!

[MagnaofIllusion]

Officially I am in favor of a Mass-Claim as I think with a 9-1 advantage things are in good shape.

--

First off I’m going to give you a little bit about my thoughts on why Peregrine should be today’s lynch.

The only two lynches I would have accepted today were Sotty and Peregrine. With Bogre flipping Scum I very much think that he was the ‘Ghost Vote’ Day 1 and thus my suspicion of Starbuck’s slot is minized.

Look at Peregrine’s positioning regarding the lynches of Maru and Ace. He was off both. I think his arguments about the low probability of all three scum partners being on the Maru wagon is valid.

That leaves the lynch pool at Twistedspoon, PeregrineV, Captain Corporal, and myself.

I’m certainly not going to try to lynch myself.

TwistedSpoon’s Miller claim and subsequent confirmation from Ethos regarding said status and De-Millerization means I’m not pushing him today.

CC is likely Town based on his use of his claimed 1-shot revive on Jak when Jak’s death is clearly from some sort of scum Daykill. You can’t change alignments per the Mod so scum CC has no reason to resurrect Town Jak before Ace’s flip when he could have tried to bring back Ace.

That leave Peregrine.

Now look at Peregrine’s ISO. Generally look at his interactions with all the confirmed scum. Here are some select quotes that I’d like to present.

@Maru- Generally, when faced with impending death (maybe, seeing as how you have the votes to lynch you ), a town-player will give some thoughts on who the scum team or players are. Unless I missed it, you haven't done such a thing.

This comes at a time when Maru had hit 7 votes (we now know that Bogre wasn’t an actual vote). This smells strongly of coaching Maru to present a Town front when Pere partner would know he wasn’t dying and there was a chance to reverse the wagon.

@Seraphim- That supposes that Jak would know about Maru's 7+ lynch thing going on. In which case it makes more sense for him to be on early, or to come on closer to the end.

This is from Day 2 where he is discussing his thoughts on when it made sense for a Maru scum partner to be on the wagon knowing the ‘missing vote’ issue. The bolded is his stance – scum would be on early or close to the end.

Then juxtapose it with his read on Ace –

@MoI- I see Ace as misguided town,

but mostly give him town points for his "hammer" of Maru

and explanatory posts leading up to it. Why is he on your scum list?

Note the bolded. He is giving Ace ‘Town points’ for among other reasons that he was the hammer (aka late on the wagon) which is contradictory to the position he took earlier in ISO 5.

In ISO 29 he places a pretty strong chain-saw attack on Twisted for Twisted’s attack on Bogre (confirmed Scum).

Finally we have his End of Day 2 behavior regarding Ace and Chrono

8 hours and 20 minutes from this post, but I'm going to a movie, so won't be back before.

Unvote. Vote: Ace

If Ace flips town, MoI & Sera be Zombiebers, and shall die by fire.

It's actually a movie called "Attack the Block", by the same guys that did "Shaun of the Dead"!! LMAO

pedit- I don't think Chrono is either, but scum wont change their vote off you.

Unvote.
Vote: Chronopie

ISO 43 came approximately 45 minutes after 42.

The vote switch took an Ace (scum) wagon from 5 to 4 and placed Chrono at 4 leaving him as a possible mislynch in place of Ace. Also it raised the possibility that a No lynch would occur.

Note that in 43 he explicitly says he doesn’t think Chrono is scum but he removes a vote from confirmed scum and places it on Town because ‘Scum will not take their votes off you (Chrono)”. That’s not a Town thought process.

That’s the short version of Pere as scum. I can go more detailed if necessary.

[MagnaofIllusion]

In order to correct an oversight on my part, the game will not end until all four mafia are flipped.

So here's the plan in regards to this post.

Plan A - Chrono continues to flip lynched Players overnight using his ability. This is dependant on him being able to continue to do so and not be limited by his 2-shot ability limit he claimed.

@Chrono

- can you strip unlimited amounts of flesh or are you limited to two shots?

Plan B - Each day following a lynch we quickly No-Lynch to flip said Corpse to Bones. This only is optimal if scum don't have a Nightkill (which I strongly suspect at this point. It would work as follows -

Day 4 - We lynch Peregrine.
Day 5 - We no lynch to flip Peregrine.
Day 6 - If scum isn't defeated we move on to the next choice. Chrono resurrects any Town that are turned to Bones.
Day 7 - We no lynch to flip Day 6 choice.

This is pretty tedious but I don't see the need to chain lynches except in the case where scum do have NK powers previously unseen. If someon dies at the end of today along with Peregrine we might be looking at a "Scum have even day daykill" scenario that would require us to tweak the plan.

@MOD - Can the scum just choose to give up at this point?

[MagnaofIllusion]

I'm good with a mass claim/full claim. MoI knows mine so he either thinks I'm faking it or he's the last one.

Would like to hear from Sotty, Sleepy, Ethos and Jak before giving out too much info.

I'll also wait to respond to MoI, since he's just getting started in lining up the next 4 game days.

Desperation ... thy name is Peregrine. Please try to paint me as scum. I eagerly await your attempt.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I forgot to add - This stance from Peregrine is funny since I basically told Peregrine overnight in a QT we share that I was going to push for his lynch if Bogre flipped scum. So it is hardly a surprise to him.

Jak should be able to confirm this since he is supposed to have access to the QT himself.

@Jak

- Check with Nik if somehow you do not.

I'll summarize my said QT conversation with Peregrin after we decide on Mass-claims and so such.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Pro-Mass Claim:

Seraphim
MoI
Peregrine
Twisted (since he's already claimed)
Sotty

[MagnaofIllusion]

No, not surprised. But don't expect me to go "MoI's got this in the bag. Lynch me please." because it ain't going to happen.

If you are the last scum you aren't escaping the noose so it would be the expediant thing to do but I understand completely playing to your Wincon to the bitter end even when doomed.

My problem with your play is this -

In the QT you outlined your suspect list when I asked about it that had several players as possible scum. You said about me "Probably Town". Again Jak can voucher for this - QT ISO 13.

And you knew I was going to hang you today going into Daytime. Yet your response to my case is "MoI is scum pushing on me as I'm a poor little mislynch" with not a single mention of supposedly your 'top suspects'.

Yes, I understand you can use the "I was humouring you in QT to scum-hunt you route" but I think Jak can probably explain quite clearly who was doing the scum-hunting there.

@Sotty

- I'd really like to see more from you on your thought, mass-claim or no.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I am not a Mason. I am, however, a Neighbor. Gambits are fun

I hope you understand that gambits also get you lynched when you claim Masons in a game which already had too many Neighborhoods to begin with.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So Ethos / Chrono / CC and Jak all need to weigh in on Mass-claim.

If two of the four agree to it then I think we can proceed.

@MOD - I will be V/LA from today at 5pm EST today until Monday AM for my usual weekend family duties.

I should have enough access to make my role-claim and related info before then.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I wasn't aware of the Neighborhoods until just now.

Part of the reasons said gambit can get you killed.

[MagnaofIllusion]

At this point we should just take care of this in the full Mass claim to follow

Character
Role Name
Powers
All Night actions

[MagnaofIllusion]

Look, we are pointlessly arguing about the order when in this situation PopCorn isn't that important when only 1 scum remains, they are going first, and several people have already claimed.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I'm good with a mass claim/full claim. MoI knows mine so he either thinks I'm faking it or he's the last one.

Would like to hear from Sotty, Sleepy, Ethos and Jak before giving out too much info.

I'll also wait to respond to MoI, since he's just getting started in lining up the next 4 game days.

While we're waiting, I'll go back and look over some of MoI's scum games (using the wiki, so if you have any others you feel are more representative, please post the links).

Peregrine

- here is the full text of the post in question (not that MS's quote feature eliminated the smilie from your post).

Note the last two lines -

The first soft asserts that I am 'lining up lynches', which is used as a scum-tell here on site.

The second basically indicates you are going to look at some of my scum games. The only reason to do so is to find evidence of my play that you think you can use to call me scum.

That's clearly how you were 'suspecting' me. I'm very curious why you used a very abridged version of your own post when responding in an attempt to say I misrepresented you.

But by all means ... make your full claim.

[MagnaofIllusion]

No time to make a full claim ... it will have to happen in the morning.

@Sera

- please check your claim to be sure it is accurate. Your "switch Live and Dead" portion in particular doesn't read as accurate as I think you have something jumbled there.

Also look back at IPie's ISO for his original claim for Ethos.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ok I have 15 minutes so I can make my full claim.

--

I am

Edward Cullen

(yes, sparkly Vampire … damn you Nik why couldn’t I have been a cool Vamp like Spike or Angel?),

Vampire-Recruitor

I am a Vampire. My abilities are

Keep it in the Family

– Each night I can bite a target player and turn them into a vampire. They gain vampire abilities like my own and have access to my QT. Each recruited vampire gains their own QT … Twisted recruited Seraphim so I cannot see their conversation directly. This action fails on anyone not Human or Vampire.

Creature of the Night

– This is my QT called “Cojin’s Family” because Nik was too lazy to remain it MoI’s family <3

Deceptive Appearance

– I appear Human to all investigations. This is the reason why Twisted stopped appearing on Ethos’s list Day 2 … he gain this power which over-rode his Miller status and why I did not appear on Ethos's list at the start of today.

Parental Dependance

– If a vampire’s recruitor loses Vampire status they stop being a vampire.

Wincondition is, of course, when the Mafia has been eliminated.

Night Actions

–

N1; Cojin chose to recruited Twisted. Not sure why he did this to the claimed Miller but after the fact it was a goldmine as it allowed me to read Ethos’s slot as 100% Town based on his reaction to de-millerization.

N2: I chose to recruit Starbuck as a means to possible scum-hunt in QT. I suggested Twisted recruite Bogre for the same reason but he chose Seraphim.

N3: I chose to recruit Ethos as I knew he was confirmed Town and I already was in contact with Peregrine via Zombie QT (deails below)

At the beginning of N3 I got a revised PM from Nik that basically said I had been “Zombified” and gave me access to the Zombie neighborhood with Peregrine and supposedly Jak (although he never posted). I am still a vampire as the original Recruitor so all my offspring still hold their abilities as Vampires.

I suspect this Zombification is a T-action that kills normal humans and is why Jak died at the end of Day 2 but why I survived. Jak’s reanimation by CC (sorry Sera it is pretty clear you did nothing along those lines) explains why he didn’t get access until the end of N3 (per Peregrine) when he was resurrected but I got access immediately since I am apparently resistant.

I’ll go into more detail on my thoughts once everyone claims.

Sleepy needs to claim next as I want full details on the third claimed Neighorhood that supposedly exists in the game.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I got bitten by Spoon last night.

Well then explain in detail why you were dropping Mason tells yesterday before you were bitten? You started making said claims Day 3 before you would have known about Twisted's Neighborhood.

And what did Twisted and Sera say in the QT last night?

@Twisted and Sera - Please do not comment until after Sleepy responds please.

[MagnaofIllusion]

1. To make scum scared to kill me and
2. Reactions
3. Spoon and Sera scumhunted a bit and discussed who to bite
4. Why ask this question?
5. Answer my Ethos question

1/2 -1 makes zero sense. Your claimed role is hardly unique enough from what had already been claimed to qualify as worthy of a stupid Masons gambit - not to mention that it most likely would have the opposite effect since you were claiming confirmed Town. Furthermore let's be frank Sleepy ... you aren't exactly what I'd call a high priority target anyway. So what reaction (other than my irritation at what looked like another obvious bullshit avalance from you) did you get? Lastly why again

3 doesn't actually require any input.

4. Because on the off chance the Peregrine is just a Townie who managed to defend 3/4 of the scum team I need to be looking for the 4th member. And you are a prime contender in the second tier.

5. Do you understand the nature of V/LA's/. Your question takes more time to answer than I had until now.

Here's the facts as we know them - Ethos's slot claims to have a list of all non-humans at the start of each Day. He claims that Maru (proven correct) and Twisted were on the list Day 1. Twisted claimed Miller more or less immediately.

So Night 1 my slot bites and converts Twisted (which thinking about it looks like Cojin wanted to test if Twisted was actually Non-Human) to a Vampire, thus granting Twisted immunity to his Miller Status. IPie begins the day asking Twisted what happened the prior night. So he has to know something actually happened to Twisted. The ways this can occur are -

1. I'm partners with Ethos and told him Night 1 about what was going to occur. This isn't possible since we know only 1 scum remains. Ruled out.
2. Twisted and Ethos are partners and Twisted told Ethos via Daytalk in their QT. This isn't possible since we know only 1 scum remains. Ruled out.
3. Ethos isn't lying about his abilities and Day 2 got a list without Twisted on it.

That's it. Other than Nik just outright telling Ethos info (that's not happening) those are the exact only options for it to have occured as it did.

So Ethos is 100% confirmed Town to me ... no possibility that he's scum based on this fact pattern.

Also for kicks and grins if you want further proof look at Day 1 and Day 2. His play re Maru and regarding the mysterious disappearance of Twisted from his list (per IPie's play) is absolutely Town.

I have more to say about the claims process once it is complete

@Sotty and Ethos

- You need to come in and complete the full-claims process so we can hash things out and then hang Peregrine.

[MagnaofIllusion]

2. I myself didn't get anything, but I recall someone getting a strong scumread on Pere because of his reaction.
There is (usually) no harm in reactionfishing, and I've told you several times that I love to reactiontest.

4. But how does that question specifically help you do anything? Neither alignment would have any motivation to lie there.

I agree with you about Pere's reaction ... you will note that I mentioned at that time that despite my HATING your claim (since I know there was already a Town Neighborizor and that Masons seemed VERY unlikely) that Pere's reaction is as I would expect from scum whose last partner was going down. That said I find reactionfishing is generally greatly overrated.

As to how it may help me ... you'll just have to wait in suspense for that answer. I don't give away ALL me methods dear Sleepy.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Can we go ahead and just finish the Mass-claim first please.

There is still a slight (I mean VERY slight) chance that Peregrine just played a god-awful game.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I wanna see some MoIputer action. Want me to do it?

Give it a whirl if so inclined. I'm curious to see what sort of parameters you would use and how you handle Day 3.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I have an active ability called auto life. If I use this ability on a human, the next time the player dies they will turn into an undead corpse. If I use this ability on a corpse they will die in twlight.Starbuck used this ability night one and two, on Captain Corporal and MoI respectively.

And this I think sheds light on why I didn't actually die at the end of Day 3. Interesting.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ethos please get in here so we can get this show on the road!!!

@Sleepy

- I eagerly await your VC analysis work.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ok .. I've waited long enough for Ethos.

He's confirmed Town to me anyway so I don't really care. I think a Peregrine lynch wins the game.

VOTE: Peregrine

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Chrono

- you need to strip Peregrine's flesh overnight so we have a flip by morning.

@Sleepy

- please resurrect Jak as he is confirmed Town.

@Sotty

- Please autolife a Town read.

No-one else should take any other actions. That includes recruiting. At this stage I don't want to risk issues with someone possibly losing a Pro-Town power.

--

Are we really even giving up the pretense of scumhunting?

Not at all. You completely ignored my 861 where I laid out how you defended / called Town every single on of the dead scum. That’s not Town play.

This is just a last ditch Appeal to Emotion.

Furthermore 987 is confirmation that Peregrine is scum. Why you may ask?

Read that post carefully. He’s giving final reads. Note who isn’t mentioned at all – Jakalope. Why does that make him scum? For the last line where he says the following

pedit- let back in.

So he typed the whole post of reads and specifically didn’t list Jak BEFORE he supposedly knew that Jak was Daykilled. That’s a scum slip right there – Town would have no way to know that Jak was about to explode.

Meanwhile, since there is 10 days left, why don't you play a game called "PeregrineV town flip" in which you scumhunt for the last mafia after I flip town.

No real need to muddy the waters elsewhere when you are it most likely it. Once you are lynched if you flip Town we’ll go back to the looking.

/rant
This better not be a vampire cult thing...
/endrant

See this doesn’t come from Town. At all.

1. Mod confirms the game is 9-4. No third parties at all.
2. Mod confirms that alignments cannot change in the game.

Die.

VOTE: Peregrine

Anyone that auto confirms MoI for pursuing Ace to the extent of any and all other players is probably scum.

This made me chuckle. Anyone who ever wants a clear definition of flailing can reference this.

In Peregrine’s world –

The player who calls all 3 flipped scum Town – Town.
The player you pushed Ace’s lynch through against attempts to move to Chronopie at deadline and was the Day 3 kill attempt – Scum.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So on Jak, he's now MoI confirmed town even though he was almost lynched day2 and was the target of confirmed town Sera's attempted vig-while-returning-a-scum-to-life?

Jak has now been killed via scum twice. Not once but twice.

That you are even pretending that it doesn't make him confirmed Town makes me LOL.

That's right scum ... ignore the cases presented on you all the way to the gallows.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Sigh … I had high hopes for a clear sweep with Peregrine’s play regarding the 3 killed scum.

Back to review. I have to look at ISOs for the people who fall into my top remaining suspect list and look for interactions again. Probably will not happen in full until after the weekend at this rate.

--

I can revive one Bones and one Corpse (1-Shot each) at Twilight. Haven't used either yet.

Why didn’t you revive Jak aka confirmed Town yesterday. You posted after he died to vote for Pere so you had opportunity to revive Jak.

--

Do I tear apart todays lynch, or put Peregrine back together?

I think you are best served giving us 1 Night reveals at this stage.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MOD – I’ll be V/LA as usual from 4pm EST today until Monday AM EST for weekend family duties.

My full re-read will have to come after I get back from V/LA.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Yes, I'm acknowledging my prod while on V/LA

I'll be going through the ISOs and getting something up today.

[MagnaofIllusion]

blargh

The content is missing from this post. Who is scum?

While you are at it Sleepy why don't you explain the thought process behind your breadcrumbing. I'm very curious to see what you were intending to do there.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Agreed ... each time I try to re-read and make some assessment of who I want to vote I just lose steam about 1/4 of the way in ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

All I'm saying CC, is that relying strictly on your claim to dismiss all suspicion against you is pretty poor and should never work. See mafia trackers, mafia doctors, mafia roleblockers etc...

I agree but let's look at his claimed abilities.

Outbreak - resurrects a Corpse and grants them a 1-shot use of the Outbreak ability.
Passive - knows when Outbreak is used
Embalm - prevent Corpse from becoming bones.

A resurrect that grants the player it is used on the ability again. And Jak confirmed it works in this manner. They both can't be lying. Jak is confirmed Town and CC used his ability to resurrect him immediately instead of trying to bring back Ace (who before his reveal there was some quetion in some players mind of his Mafia status).

Embalming Jak so he doesn't go bones is also pretty much proven by the results of Jak's second killing. If scum CC wanted to mess with us why didn't he secretly use the Embalm on Ace as opposed to Jak? He didn't claim that in his original claim IIRC. He could have just cruised by on Outbreak without revealing the second power or using it on a Town player.

I don't see CC's ability use as coming from Scum at this juncture.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ok, I’ve sat on my duff enough. Here’s my thoughts. I’m dividing the remaining playerlist into two categories – Confirmed (in my mind) and unconfirmed

Confirmed Players

–

Ethos

– I’ve already explained this but I’ll re-sumarize: IPie’s play Day 1 regarding Maru does indeed look like someone with inside information (his list), especially with his reaction to Twisted’s Miller claim. Day 2 his play surrounding Twisted’s de-millerization is something that confirms he has said ability (Check the Backseat) and that in my mind he approached it form a Town perspective. Plus Day 2 he came out firing at Bogre.

Sotty7

– Sotty’s claimed ability cements her in my mind as Town. The missing kill on the Day I suddenly became Zombified absolutely more or less confirms her power in my mind. Peregrine (who we know is Town) confirms I did become a Zombie immediately that Day.

Twisted

– The Miller claim and the fact that he was ‘deMiller-ized’ as a result of my slot’s recruit on him confirms him as Town to me. He couldn’t have been anything other than a Human or Vampire for my ability to work. Neither one would have shown up on Ethos’s list (unless he is again, some funky non-Twilight Vampire). My successful recuit (which is confirmed to others via multiple QT interactions) confirms this multiple times over.

CC

– I explained already why I can’t see his abilities (more or less Mod confirmed since Jak can’t be a lying partner covering for him).

Jak

and

Peregrine

are both confirmed Town if either returns to play.

This is the line. I will NOT support a lynch on any of the above players unless oddly somehow it gets to LYLO.

Next we have the two other resurrectors –

Chrono

– He is as close to being on the other side of the line as anyone. I think his ability doesn’t make too much sense as scum (I speeds up the process by which scum lynches are hidden from Town). His position as the alternate wagon to Ace at the end of Day 2 doesn’t make sense to me. I highly doubt that the move to lynch Chorono over Ace is scum trying to trade a weaker player / role to a stronger one given what we saw of Ace’s flip. The only thing holding me back is the fact that we have zero confirmation about the second part of his ability (bringing back Bones to full life).

Sleepy

– He pretty much POE of the three resurrectors for me. Also, he’s the last remaining player I don’t feel strongly about. His play has been pretty meh from a scum-hunting standpoint in memory. I'd really have to look back at his posts to get a better feel.

Seraphim

– And so we come to the last person. As I was drifting off to sleep late last night my mind was running over my thoughts and something came to me that I hadn’t considered before. Let’s examine this crucial bit of information from Seraphim’s claim that doesn’t match any other Vamp’ed player –

I have(had) two abilities.

Aside from the very odd claim in the first place (which I asked about when he made it) and his odd choices of targets N1 and N2 (IMO) he’s the only player to intimate that he lost any abilities to the Vamping. He does it early enough that he might not have know that wasn't the case with Vamping.

This troubled me enough to question my read. I’ve certainly had Sera sloted as Town most of the game. It stemmed from the way Ace pushed on him Day 2. Since I locked on Ace scum immediately (and he OMGUSed me like a champ) his previous actions I considered to be attacking Town. Ace's flip really solidified that for me.

So I went back. I read Day 2 in it’s entirety. I invite you to go do the same. Especially read Sera’s postings. He only really hops on board the Ace train late after Jak and CC both have been forced to claim. He at several key points tries to dissuade me from Ace (after Ace’s claim, after Chrono got run up asking me to wagon Peregrine instead). In hindsight it looks very possibly like a bus. He also really didn't push on any of the know scum (Ace or Bogre) but rather concentrated on pretty much everyone but (Jak, CC, IPie, FOS of Twisted).

The other thing that got my attention was the following from Day 1 –

I am the bussing king, bro. I hope you're taking notes.

That's just how good I am at it. I can even TELL you that I'm bussing and there's not a darn thing you can do about it.

This is the sort of cheeky WIFOM play I could see from scum of Sera’s experience. Plus a quick look at Maru’s wagon (which he was early on) did show that he did back off after Maru’s claim and took a small stab at exonerating him (IMO).

At this point PoE makes this a Seraphim or Sleepy vote day for me.

VOTE: Seraphim

--

Also MoI, still waiting on what went horribly wrong when I puted.

Well first off using the MoIputer method instead was the first mistake. The MoIputer method (which just looks at expected positions of scum on and off ending wagons) tends to be most effective midgame in Large games. Using it here might have been appropriate Day 3 but then we knew either Borgre / Sotty’s slot was scum with Ace.

MoIputer doesn’t work very effectively at finding the last remaining scum because it works of average expectations. Scum don’t always play each Day to expectations but overall unless they are specifically voting to defeat it (which is not scum’s first priority, although good scum tend to be mindful of it) they are going to end up with a higher profile than Town.

I think probably more traditional vote count analysis (looking at the day 2 wagons, how they formed, and when people move where) would have been more useful.

Mechanically you need to do a MoIputer output as follows –

1. Estimate number of scum alive at end of each Day you are analysing (in this case, it was easy – end of Day 1 we know it was 4, Day 2 we know 3, etc). Calculate the estimated percentage of scum (estimate scum over total alive). This yields a percentage.

2. Apply this percentage to the number of votes on the lynching wagon. For example if the expected percentage is 35% and 10 are on the wagon you expect 3.5 scum there. Round to whole numbers as necessary based on your personal judgement.

3. Subtract any known scum on the wagon from the expected number unflipped. Divide this result by the number of unflipped / non-confirmed players. This gives you the factor for that wagon.

4. Do this for both lynching wagon at end of Day and everyone off the wagon at end of Day.

5. Lather rinse repeat for each Day. Then sum up the factors for each player. Players in the highest range are more likely to be scum.

6. Use this pool to look at play and relational tells to figure out who you think is the best scum candidate.

Where you went wrong was

1. Only analysing the lynching wagons and not also those off the wagon.
2. Using 1 scum remaining in your calculations when Day 1 there were 4 and Day 2 there were 3. This threw your results off significantly.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So here's what I suggest happen .... feel free to tell me to take a long walk off a short pier if you aren't Seraphim

1. We lynch Seraphim.
2. Sleepy has already claimed a Twilight resurrect on Peregrine. If it doesn't happen Ethos shoots him overnight as he is a Vampire and the Non-human kill should affect him.
3. Chrono flips Seraphim overnight.

If Seraphim isn't the last scum not sure who is. Hell, once Sera and Sleepy (my other strong PoE candidate) are dead I will not fight my own lynch at all since that means that I've got some unknown error in my Clearing assumptions and I am probably never going to be able to find it.

[MagnaofIllusion]

But let's not forget who pointed out what ace's role meant for our mysterious voteless player; that he was scum, right from the get-go, based on how the game was balanced and our 9:4 setup. I think my play speaks for itself; I have pushed hard for EVERY scum lynch we've had so far. If we're going to play the "who is confirmed and who is not" game

I just wanted to address this.

1. You didn't "push hard" for Ace. I can pull your Day 2 postings regarding him if you'd like. I bascially had to drag you kicking and screaming to his lynch. The only scum you pushed 'hard' for is Maru and even then you did a little song and dance around his claim.
2. I'll go pull your quotes arguing with me about what Ace's claim didn't absolutely mean he was scum from after his claim if you'd like but saying "Hey, I clearly was first to point out this fact" isn't very convincing.

I understand it is frustrating being picked off by PoE. Fact remains that unless you think Sotty and I are scum together (which, natch, we can't be) the odds that I am scum is pretty minimal (since Sotty claimed to have protected me, no kill happened Day 3 at lynch, and Peregrine confirmed that I was a Zombie starting at the outset of N3). It's probably the reason why you aren't bothering to push the MoI is scum angle.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MoI: How do you account for there being two neighborizors in the game? That's the only thing making you not completely obvious town in my mind.

How do we account for theorectically three Town resurrectors?

This is basically playing "Outguess the Mod". How do you account for the complete lack of information roles (excepting Ethos which basically means 75% of the scum are Godfathers if I am right about Twisted being Town)? We could play this game all day. Nikanor set-ups are known for being Mod Meta proof. Hell, if I remember correctly Reboot Mafia had there different kinds of Neighbors - Town / Town at game start, a Scum who could Neighborize a specific Town player, and a Scum Neighborizor / Enabler. I could be wrong on that .. it has been awhile.

But since you are going to make we work I'll go compile a case sometime soon.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I can only speak for myself but you have to make a more convincing arguement than this.

Didn't you say the switch didn't work on anyone who hadn't been resurrected? If that's the case how are you affecting yourself?

My vote stays for the moment.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Alright, I talked to the mod, tonight I will switch myself up with Jak or Peregrine to bring them back, so I will die and they will live, acting as pretty much a self-vig.

If this doesn't happen, you can lynch me tomorrow.

Why should we trust you to self-vig again? As long as you have viable scum suspects it is in your best interest to kill them.

I note that you voted for Captain Corporal because ‘you didn’t have a better idea’, more or less. Why wasn’t that a vote for Sleepy in the first place?

I’d like an official run-down from you – players you think are Confirmed Town, likely Town and scum.

The bolded is one of my oldest personal scum-tells … appealing for one more day when promising ‘results’ in the coming night.

I misunderstood the role. It says "undead". I took this to be anyone who was NOT DEAD at first, then Nik clarified that it only worked on resurrected players. However, rereading the role and talking with Nik, I can kill any "undead" player which is to say any NON HUMAN PLAYER IN THE GAME.

Let me get this straight …

1. You were in a game called Zom-Com, based on zombies, and your first impression on seeing the word Undead in your role PM was to think of Non-dead (aka alive), not Walking Corpses?
2. You are directly saying that Nik first incorrectly clarified your question (saying it only worked on resurrected players) but then clarified that it worked on all Undead, resurrected or not?

[MagnaofIllusion]

If I'm scum, what do I have to gain by stalling?

Um, is this some sort of trick question? Stalling your own lynch today as scum means you live to fight another Day. That’s called playing to your wincon and it applies regardless of your alignment.

wait. Hold on a second. Guys.
Hey, MoI, why exactly is TS confirmed town?

I love the “Wait … hold up guys” touch here.

Did you not read my rundown post?

1. Twisted claimed Miller early Day 1.
2. Ethos confirms he was on the list of “Non-Humans” Day 1.
3. They can’t be both lying – only 1 scum remains.
4. My Vamping of him Night 1 was successful. His recruiting of you yourself confirms this to you as we can’t both be lying about the chain of events – only one scum remains.
5. Per your own modified role-PM you should know that ability ONLY works on Vampires and Humans.
6. Unless Twisted started as a Vampire without ‘Deceptive Appearances’ there is no way he can could start as anything other than Human given my successful ability. The only part of this chain that isn’t confirmed via multiple sources.

There is nothing hidden is this train of thought. You can also make the argument that there is no way Ethos’s slot was handed the names of multiple Mafia Day 1 if you’d like.

Do you disagree with my assessment?

Captain Corporal(Confirmed Town) - Pretty much the same deal as Sotty.

And yet your first vote today (which was hardly rushed, I might add) was to drop a vote on someone you are now calling Confirmed Town.

Had you really wanted to take things logically today before the pressure began I would have expected an analysis similar to this. Yet you didn’t until pressured.

I like my vote very much right now.

but his role isn't that confirmable and doesn't really exclude him from being scum

Are you sure you weren’t writing this about yourself?

You’ve claimed two night actions that mysteriously failed (N1 / N2) and that you ‘didn’t get a chance’ to action N3. Nothing confirmed about your claim in the slightest.

Meanwhile Sleepy has indicated that he’s sent in a Twilight resurrect on Peregrine.

Shouldn’t you be giving him ‘one more Night’ to prove that ability and then hang him tomorrow if it fails?

Finally - I don't really buy your "Yes" answer to either of my questions as very realistic. Just saying ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

I actioned night 3. I bit Ethos.

Yup, my mistake ... Night 4.

Your rebuttal still doesn't address the fact that your only confirmable action is based on the abilites you were given, not your original powers. Which is completely the point of my statement.

Nothing about your claimed original role is confirmed in the least.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I can flip Jak. He was embalmed though, so I don't think he decays normally. So I'd have to choose between Jak or the Lynch.

Are you nuts? There is

NO WAY

you should

EVER

consider flipping Jak.

He’s been killed

TWICE

by the Mafia. That’s as confirmed Town as you can

EVER

get.

There is absolutely no reason to ever flip him. If Sleepy isn’t lying and the game doesn’t end with Seraphim’s lynch Sleepy can twilight revive Jak tomorrow.

--

Which I can easily remedy tonight. I can kill pretty much any player you like. Including myself, if you really want me to.

But you will not do it if you are the last Mafia. Fact. So I’d rather just hang you today and avoid any complications that would occur if I am right. I think the danger greatly outweighs the benefits if you do turn out to be Town.

Dude, just because he's human doesn't mean he's town. This "wight" ability makes him appear like he's undead. That's all. We've had one non-human flip, Maru. It makes sense that he'd be human.

So your premise is that Nik made a Mafia member ostensibly Human (and thus a Godfather to Ethos) and then gave him an ability that made him show up as non-Human so he did appear D1 on the ‘Back-seat’ list.

And thus Ethos was handed 50% of the scum team before a single post Day 1.

No.

You know what?

Unvote
Vote: Twistedspoon

I want this more than an SK lynch right now.

And this is scum flailing. First he votes CC, who he later says is confirmed Town. Then he begins to push towards Sleepy and now is voted Twisted.

This is slinging votes around hoping something sticks …

Also, I think that letting Jak flip might be a good idea.

Not a single reason from Town perspective to make this statement.

Confirm Vote: Seraphim

Go back and look at my back and forth with Seraphim. Look at all the questions he's dodging - for example why he voted CC earlier today when had he been using Town perspective logic he would have known CC was basically confirmed Town via actions.

Let’s get this done people!!!!

[MagnaofIllusion]

Now explain to me why we don't flip Jak. I don't care if he's been killed twice, we need a flip to be sure.

I’ve already explained it to you Sleepy. What don’t you get?

1. Jak is confirmed Town. Are you suggesting he submitted a mid-day Kill on himself yesterday for WIFOM fun?
2. Flipping him via Chrono means Chrono can’t be flipping the lynch for the Day. That’s just plain stupid since we need to actually flip the last scum to win.

Got it now? Read carefully again if you don’t.

MoI, the 50% of scumteam business is WIFOM and outguessing the mod. If Sera ends up town, I think TS is the next best bet.

It’s not more WIFOM than Sera’s “Hey, two Town neighborhoods” argument.

It also doesn’t change the fact that that isn’t even one of the points I’m relying on in my Twisted is Town analysis.

Other than ‘His play is crap’ (as floated by Sera) what reason do you think he’s NOT confirmed Town. I’d like to see reasoning. Refute my chain of logic and we can discuss it. I don't think you can.

Because Peregrine’s play was crap (defending all three dead scum) and he flipped Town. Crap play does not mean scum.

Your play hasn’t been any more stellar than Twisted’s. Why aren’t you a better choice to an outside party?

[MagnaofIllusion]

MOD

As usual I’ll be V/LA from 5pm EST today until Monday morning for my usual weekend family duties.[/b]

-

Also regarding the replacement request –

Headdesk ….

[MagnaofIllusion]

We can No Lynch. Duh.

That’s also a stupid idea. We have a pretty overwhelming Town to scum ratio and a very limited number of Non-Confirmed Town to find the last scum in. Giving scum a free kill just to flip someone is very Anti-Town.

Thanks for answering your own question.

DERP. Jak can’t be Mafia. 0% chance. Flipping him is stupid. Period.

Except I don't buy Sera's argument either. And you yourself called him out on his WIFOM, so why do you get to use it?

Ok, are you trolling or do you not actually reading?

Because again – I’m not making that an actual part of any of my arguments. Why you keep insisting I am is starting to annoy me.

1. Then why'd you defend it?
2. True, you worded the "no hand over multiple scum D1" in a strange way...

Why’d I defend it when you asked a stupid question? Because I can. Doesn’t much matter.

I have no idea what you are trying to say in 2. The English eludes me.

1. That is Sera's logic, not mine. Mine is that his play has been SCUMMY. There is a big difference.
2. I still don't understand why he's conftown. I can't refute your logic if I don't understand it. Pretend I'm a 3rd grader and then explain it to me.

1. Defend your logic then. Show how Twisted is scummy. Just saying he is doesn’t cut it. For example his push on Bogre Day 2 looks pretty damn Town to me.
2. It’s pretty fucking clear. The combination of confirmed Role powers / results to multiple people (meaning there is no possibility of scum coordinating to fake out Town since only 1 remains) makes the possibility that Twisted isn’t Town Miller as he originally claimed pretty damn remote. If you don’t understand that summary I’m not sure what else I can do for you.

Hey, is there any reason that MoI is confirmed or are we just forgetting him because he made the list?

Well given that Sotty7 protected me from a kill and I ‘became’ a Zombie after Day 3 (confirmed by Peregrine) means that unless you are going to argue I sent a kill in on myself that I’m more or less confirmed.

Are you nervous that you are the next unconfirmed likely on the chopping block?

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Anyone not Seraphim or Sleepy –

Do you have any objections to my plan to lynch Serphim and shoot Sleepy via Ethos if Peregrine is not resurrected at Twilight?

If so please present them.

If not please vote Seraphim in your next post.

--

TS couldve just as easily been a Scum Miller.

No I'm not nervous. Should I be?

Well if for some reason it’s not Seraphim it’s very likely you so if you are scum you should be absolutely terrified since you come right after him on the Hit List for Town.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Sotty, you serious? SK caught 2 of 3 scum, and pressured them, and lead the lynches. I will eat my socks if he flips scum.
VOTE: Sotty

Did you seriously post this? Are you NOT READING?

Click on THIS link. Read my summary. Sotty is pretty much confirmed Town with her uncountered claim of the ‘Auto-Life’ ability and the missing kill which resulted in my immediate entrance into the Zombie QT (which Dead Town Peregrine confirms).

I know you pretty much have to be Town but you need to either vote Sleepy or Seraphim. They are pretty much the best options for the last scum.

If you have any issues with my logic in the linked post please take it up with me. But posting as you did is not acceptable at this juncture.

--

Boy, this game has been going well.

Unvote
Vote: SleepyKrew

Can you be any more cheeky as scum?

MORE SERAPHIM VOTES PLEASE!!!!

--

I'd like Ethos to check in on that before we do anything.

I think the last scum is Sleepy at this point though.

I agree it is possible. I also very much doubt the last scum has the ability to both kill during the Day and Twilight resurrect Peregrine in the same period. I think it will be pretty obvious if Sleep is scum if Peregrine doesn’t become alive. In which case Ethos shoots him in the head.

I’m not going to fight lynching Sleepy will all my heart but I think Seraphim is the better choice.

Did you go back and read Day 2 and look at Seraphim’s play re Ace? It’s very well done bussing IMO.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Okay so I should resurrect Peregrine? Just want to confirm.

WTF IS THIS?????

YOU ALREADY SAID YOU HAD ALREADY SENT IN SAID RESURRECTION ACTION TODAY!

[MagnaofIllusion]

I can change it however many times I want until Twilight hits. So I want to make sure we want Pere and not Jak. But currently the revive is on Pere.

Actually I'd rather you bring back Jak personally .... it leaves you the option to bring back someone else who is bones later and Jak still should have his vote when revived.

But since both are confirmed Town it works either way.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Does having a vote really matter?

Better to have more Town votes than not though I think at this stage it is a pretty minor concern.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@MOD – Please prod Chrono and Ethos. Also, how is the replacement for Twisted going?

--

@Sleepy

– Please resurrect Jak. Peregrine can always be fully resurrected by Chrono if it comes to it.

--

Forgot about claims.

Seriously???

Insert face-palm pic here …

It’s not like this game is currently all that hard to keep up with. Hell, I think Nik might have site flaked since he hasn’t posted a Vote Count or prodded recently.

--

I did look at Ace's attempt to shift a wagon over onto Sera while Maru was being run up during day one. If you're arguing bussing, wouldn't you jump on the bus that is right there rather than wait in the cold for a bus they may never come?

Could be. Time will tell I suppose.

At this point I think we are just waiting for Ethos to give his approval for a Zombie Kill of the Week on Sleepy.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MOD - As usual I’ll be V/LA from 5pm EST today until Monday morning for my usual weekend family duties.

The activity level in this game is sapping my will to play. Even Nik isn’t engaged as the Mod.

--

Since the game doesn't end until all the mafia flip, I'll continue to debone the lynches, rather than revive anyone.

Pretty much this …

[MagnaofIllusion]

Yes, I'd really like there to be SOME input from LLD and Ethos on today's lynch.

For the record Ethos - I disagree completley. Serpahim's may have voted Ace but he clearly didn't push him. Again, I can do a recap if necessary.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Deadline hits in (expired on 2011-10-26 00:19:38).

Ok people – we don’t have much time to actually secure a lynch here.

LLD and Ethos state need to provide reasons why the ‘Lynch Seraphim and shoot Sleepy if a revive does not happen at lynch’ plan isn’t viable stat.

Chrono and Sotty need to be prepared to vote Seraphim soon.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Or you could vote sleepykrew.

This is also a viable alternative where a much stronger power role(now) stays alive with the exact same end result.

Nah. Powerroles aren't all that relevant at this stage. PoE is pretty much going to win this game, IMO. And keeping you around for your 'Powerful' role that isn't confirmed in any way other than your claim isn't that appealing to me.

I'll vote for Sleepy if absolutely necessary at deadline to make sure we don't 'No Lynch'. But his claimed Power (being able to Twilight Resurrect) is absoutely provable today (before Night) and we get more information out of a successful resurrect pending the Mafia kill result for today.

And again ... I think your play is scumiest anyway.

[MagnaofIllusion]

WHERE THE HELL IS EVERYONE?

Deadline is in less than 16 hours from RIGHT NOW!!!

LLD, Chrono, Ethos - YOU NEED TO BE VOTING EITHER SERAPHIM OR SLEEPY RIGHT NOW!

Preview Edit - Yes it is Sotty.

[MagnaofIllusion]

What bothers me the most is that both Ethos and LLD are pretty much confirmed Town and the lack of anything coming from those slots is disheartening on a maddening level.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@ETHOS

- If neither Jak or Peregrine revive at lynch / deadline today shoot Sleepy overnight. Also shoot Sleepy overnight if one of them revives but we don't get a Mafia kill. It's possible the Mafia might hit an Autolife but it is also possible Sleepy-scum can't Daykill and DayResurrect in the same day.

[MagnaofIllusion]

WHERE THE FUCK IS EVERYONE?

THIS IS SO MIND-NUMBINGLY HORRIBLE PLAY FROM EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU THAT IS TOWN (ASIDE FROM SOTTY WHO ACTUALLY DID SOMETHING TO HELP LYNCH) THAT EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU NON-VOTERS SHOULD RETIRE FROM MAFIA.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Classic Good Sotty / Bad MoI tactics ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

If we keep going through/flipping townies, we might lose purely by way of scum being one of the last ones left.

Let's see what transpires at lynch today. I really would only want to start worrying once we have gone through all my Non-Confirmed players.

@MOD - If LLD is due a Prod please do so and make sure she positively responds or look to replace her.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Oh Nik ... where are you???????

[MagnaofIllusion]

Hate to say it, but this game feels done.

If it is I am going to be absolutely pissed ... there will not be words

[MagnaofIllusion]

Captain Corp - this is exactly why I'm so frustrated with this game. You are pretty much confirmed Town but you are not even playing the game. You clearly aren't paying attention since Seraphim was lynched days ago.

Sigh .... Nik was one of my favorite Mods too ... I'm very saddened by how this has turned out.

[MagnaofIllusion]

To the Hascow signal ...

De de de da da!!!!

[MagnaofIllusion]

Grump ....

[MagnaofIllusion]

Sigh this being abandoned disappoints me. That being said I would probably have not pushed on Ethos and thus would have needed to die sooner rather than later.

I wish Jak had mentioned his Cop investigation powers after he was resurrected. That was the one thing that helped to throw me off Ethos – the lack of Investigation roles in the hands of Town in a 9-4 setup.

Also giving Scum a Vig power (even limited) in a 9-4 setup is not nice …

My role Pms –

Original Role Pm

Hello Cojin. You are

Edward Cullen

[

from Twilight

], Vampire-Recruiter

.

You are a

Vampire

. If you die, you will become a

Corpse

.

Active Abilities

Keep it in the family:

You may bite another player in an attempt to turn them into a Vampire. This ability will only affect Human and Vampire players. Recruited Vampires gain the Keep it in the family, Creature of the night, Deceptive appearances and Parental dependence abilities.

Passive Abilities

Creature of the night:

All Vampires you recruit will gain access to your family quicktopic, but Vampires that your recruits recruit will not gain access to your quicktopic. Each Vampire gets his own quicktopic to share with his own recruits. You may gain access to more than one Vampire quicktopic. You currently have access to Cojin's Family.

Deceptive appearances:

You appear Human to all investigations.

Parental dependence:

If your recruiter dies or loses his Vampire status, you will become Human.

Living memory:

If you die, you will retain all of your abilities.

Factional Abilities

Win Condition:

You win when the mafia has been eliminated.

The game thread is here. Please confirm by PM.

Role PM Revised at start of N3

Hello Cojin. You are

Edward Cullen

[

from Twilight

], Vampire-Recruiter

.

You are a

Zombie

. If you die, you will become a

Bones

.

Active Abilities

Keep it in the family:

You may bite another player in an attempt to turn them into a Vampire. This ability will only affect Human and Vampire players. Recruited Vampires gain the Keep it in the family, Creature of the night, Deceptive appearances and Parental dependence abilities.

Passive Abilities

Creature of the night:

All Vampires you recruit will gain access to your family quicktopic, but Vampires that your recruits recruit will not gain access to your quicktopic. Each Vampire gets his own quicktopic to share with his own recruits. You may gain access to more than one Vampire quicktopic. You currently have access to Cojin's Family.

Deceptive appearances:

You appear Human to all investigations.

Parental dependence:

If your recruiter dies or loses his Vampire status, you will become Human.

Living memory:

If you die, you will retain all of your abilities.

Factional Abilities

Win Condition:

You win when the mafia has been eliminated.

The game thread is here. Please confirm by PM.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Needless to say, it was a very frustrating game when we were losing kills because of unexplained twilight-ness.

Again ... you lost one kill Day 1. That's all.

Why didn't you flip poltergiest? If you used your 'I'm Human Now' ability why didn't Ace show up as a Poltergiest / turn to ash?

[MagnaofIllusion]

It was my ability - when I died Bogre became human.

Aha, I missed that.

[MagnaofIllusion]

We lost two night kills and the vig shot was delayed, IIRC.

What Twilight kill did you lose other than Day 1? Twilight Kill on me Day 3 wasn't lost. Starbuck / Sotty had used Autolife on me. It instantly resurrected me so the kill in effect never happened. It's why I instantly becaume a Zombie at the start of N3.

Not sure what Vig shot you are talking about.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Day 1 and Day 2.

The vig-shot from Ethos's boomstick.

From the Mod post at the end of Day 2 -

TheJakalope - Human - Emballmed day two.

Looks very much like a successful kill to me.

When did Ethos submit his kill and who was it on?