Double Vote Mafia -Mini 1239- Over

[Robotnick2]

Gah, so so sorry! I completely forgot I was replacing in :/

Unvote

Let me just reread, I'll put some reads up in a sec.

[Robotnick2]

Okay.

For the sake of brevity, I won't give in-depth post summaries, because VM did that and to be honest it annoyed the hell out of me. If anyone wants reasoning on a specific point, just let me know. Also, please be aware that I am not a very good reader, although English IS my native language, hence the time it's taken to read the thread. If I misquote or misunderstand you,

please do not take it out of context.

So.

I find AurorusVox an overall slightly leaning town read. You'res scummy due to your constant vote-switching with somewhat... interesting reasoning (see here, then here, here with added weird logic) however your logic with NS follows, and the fact that you're offering a 1for1 is a towntell in my book, enough to override your odd voting FOR NOW, but which I see from your meta isn't your usual play. Interesting.

I find Nobody Special actually a scum read. The excessive tunnelling of Whiskers at the beginning was... excessive. So, to prove a point, here's a question for you.

What stopped you from actually playing the game WHILST you were aggressively pursuing Whiskers?

Failing an answer to this, I will repeat it in larger and larger letters whilst actively seeking to not play the game. Cause that is so totally pro-town.
Also, you

did not unvote Rainbowdash

after she explained her gambit. It was a failed gambit, and probably wasn't such a great idea from the start, but your vote was based on the fact that...

A) she was an idiot, or B)...?

(That was a second question, for the record.)

I read Rainbowdash as town, simply put. No REAL scumtells, a few towntells, and seems to be actively hunting scum.

I read Christine as leaning town. No real scumtells, but no real towntells either, other than a general sense of mild townieness. Not really sure what else to say.

I read Friend as leaning scum. Slight anti-town style, and s/he hasn't read the setup, and yet ignores Rainbow's question on whether s/he's trolling or not.

I read Alnara as... active lurking scum. Has anyone actually read their ISO? They have 11 posts,

6

of which are non-game related, and of the other 5, one is a seemingly random vote, one almost looks like RVS... 100 posts and 2 MW days into the game, one is the Hiraki defence, one is some strangely logical KJvsHH debate, and one is a list of all the people they find "scummy", but with the reasoning taken SO FAR out of context.

I read Whiskers as null. Completely null, I can't see any town or scumtells in what he's saying. I do find his avoidance of NS's incessant questioning a little off, but that's not screaming town/scumtell to me.

Hiraki, I really really really hate lurkers. REALLY hate them. And you are one. I can't get a read on you because most everything you've said is worthless. Start playing, or request replacement please, just stop screwing the game up.

I read killerjester as null with a tad of town. Seems to be trying to scumhunt. Be careful hoever that you don't try too hard, lest you appear scummy.

I read Nintendo as town, his logic makes sense and he is also actively scumhunting, pushing the game forward. I do agree however that the logic surrounding the whole "ad hom" controversy was a little shady.

Now. The big question.
I read Voidedmafia as leaning town. A bit of content, and some good scumhunting. Not much, but it's there.

I believe that's everyone. With regards to the above, I feel my votes would be best placed here:

VOTE: Nobody Special
VOTE: Alnara

Any questions/response to my questions *ahem*

Nobody Special

*ahem*

[Robotnick2]

Mr. Rainbow, you keep asking for "top votes." Consider our top vote to be on you. I would also highly recommend that whenever you finish collecting everyone's "top vote," we lynch the person with the most "top votes" for the aforementioned reasons.

Awesome. Given that you are now actively not responding to what I already gave in response to you, dare I ask why?

@VM - I think this

Nintendo (4) - Dash, Christine, AV, KJ
AV (2) - Whiskers, VM
Dash (2) - NS, Alana
Whiskers (1) - Friend

Refusing to vote (1) - Nintendo

"Not" Voting - Malp, Hiraki

:/
Although I don't quite see the logic here, I'll humour you; my "top vote" is NS.
Speaking of which,

Lol@robotnick using NS's own tactic against him. Speaking of, you didn't answer his first question, NS.

I find Nobody Special actually a scum read. The excessive tunnelling of Whiskers at the beginning was... excessive. So, to prove a point, here's a question for you.

What stopped you from actually playing the game WHILST you were aggressively pursuing Whiskers?

Failing an answer to this, I will repeat it in larger and larger letters whilst actively seeking to not play the game. Cause that is so totally pro-town.
Also, you

did not unvote Rainbowdash

after she explained her gambit. It was a failed gambit, and probably wasn't such a great idea from the start, but your vote was based on the fact that...

A) she was an idiot, or B)...?

(That was a second question, for the record.)

Robotnik, it's called tunneling. I do it sometimes.

Also, my vote remains on Rainbow dash because she's an idiot. Or scum. Same difference.

My first two sentences answer the first question. The next three sentences answer the second.

Firstly, it's Robotni

c

k, not Robotnik.
Secondly,
Thirdly, explain exactly how idiot==scum. I could find numerous examples of idiot!town winning a game.
Fourthly, please explain WHY you think Rainbow is an idiot/scum in the first place. It was a failed gambit, but I don't see how it was scummy.

[Robotnick2]

Oh damn.

EBWOP: Secondly, explain how your "tunneling" (not the right term for it, as Whiskers pointed out) is protown.

[Robotnick2]

And the case against me?

Your point about "only 1 substantial post" is somewhat invalid; as I explained, not only did I forget I had replaced in, but I am a slow reader. Might I note that my reads post (the post you deemed my only significant one) was

the same day

that Nintendo was hammered? How was I supposed to do anything ELSE substantial if we lynch the same day? I put my hands up, I was wrong about both reads, but that's not a scumtell, is it?

[Robotnick2]

Oh, and a Friend lynch works for me. As does a NS lynch.

Vote: FM
Vote: NS

[Robotnick2]

For Robot - The pony took a lot of weak stances yesterday, really only pushing hard on a couple of the slight possibility lynches.

I posted what I read...

Then like I said, he calls nintendo somepony who was actively scumhunting? Half the case

against

that pony was that he was

NOT

scumhunting.

Having re-read his iso, I do actually concede that point. Not entirely sure what I was thinking in my read of him.

Now he is trying to jump on what I think is the NS mislynch, mostly for attacking me. Heck I was on the recieving end of that attack and I dont think NS is scummy for it, just was really misguided/derpy for making it.

I'm not entirely sure I understand what you're trying to say here. Are you saying that "I think that you're voting him based on an action that I don't think was scummy, so I'm gonna vote you"?

Then today, he is way more interested with why I am attacking him instead of giving reasoning behind the Friend or NS votes.

I gave my reasoning in my read post. I ALSO stated, and I quote, "If anyone wants reasoning on a specific point, just let me know."

Friend Marisel

For the record, my vote of Friend is as follows.

I will put any questions I have for Friend in bold.

(And yes, this is going to be a VM-style post analysis. Sorry.);

Posts 0 and 1 of his ISO are fluff, nothing particulary scummy there.

Post 2: RVS

Post 3: A rather intriguing question over why Alnara voted Malpascp instead of him. Not scummy in itself, but then he

votes Alnara

over it. This almost seems like he's trying to start some sort of wagon over a mountain made of a molehill. Very strange.

Post 4: He basically calls everyone but NS scum/scummy. And then he unvotes Hiraki/Alnara.

So what was the point in voting Alnara, one post before?

Post 5: He deflects the question from post #128 (Killerjester asks, "What is your stance on the players you've formed opinions on so far?). Also states that, and I quote, "i am willing to bet at least one of them is scum. not sure who tho." Yet everything he listed the post before are scumtells (overdefensivness, twisting words, et.c). So

what qualifies as a scumtell to you?

Post 6: Has no real tells in it, although I'm interested as to

why he thinks he's justified his lack of posting

. There isn't a post detailing this.

Post 7: He votes Whiskers for a placeholder, fair enough. No tells at this point, however a later post reveals a scumtell.

Post 8: He says he finds Whiskers scummy for "protecting someone he/she shouldnt care about". So...

defending someone you see as town/pointing out errors in someone else's arguement is scummy?

Post 9: He makes a good point, no real tells from it.

Post 10: I disagree with, but there's no tells in it.

Posts 11, 12 and 13 are fluff. 14 has no tells. 15 is again fluff.

Post 16: He states that he "cant get a read on either of [AV or Whiskers]", but if he has no reads, why is he voting them? Oh wait, because they're arguing, as explained...

Post 17: ...here. Wait, no, he's voting because AV and Nintendo were arguing, and because Whiskers was defending Nintendo. But surely if, as he said himself, "when people get into the type of argument [AV] and NIN did one tends to be scum", wouldn't it make more sense to vote Nintendo instead of Whiskers?

Post 18: Major scumslip here. He claims that the original reason, in Post 7, for voting Whiskers was because s/he was defending Nintendo? Except, at the point when he made the vote,

Whiskers hadn't started defending yet

, only starting to do so

after

Post 7. He even gave the reason IN Post 7 as a placeholder vote.

Care to explain?

Post 19: Says that originally his primary vote was AV, but has since changed to Whiskers, giving the reason "nothing is sitting well with what she's saying.
".

Could you also clarify this please?

Post 20 is fluff.

Post 21: Perhaps I should clear some ambiguity. To my mind, when Rainbowdash said "I'll make a case tomorrow" or something along those lines, s/he meant real-time tomorrow, not game-time tomorrow. No tells from this post though.

And Post 22 is fluff.

Is that enough of a case for you, Rainbow?

[Robotnick2]

Well actually, Friend explicitly states that his

original

vote was because you were defending Nintendo, in these two posts here;

@whiskers - my place holder vote was a reasoned vote as explained in-between those two posts (post 323.) the reasoning simply wasnt stated in the original post as it really wasnt needed, but was asked for.

im leaning towards whiskers because he/she (not sure which) is protecting someone he/she shouldnt care about. hell nintendo defended himself well enough from what ive seen. whiskers shouldnt need to help, but yet there it is as bright as day. just my take on things. so both my votes stay where they are.

[Robotnick2]

Hmm.

Whiskers I read as leaning town. It's a bit... wibbley? Don't know if that makes sense, but Whiskers feels quite town, but not solidly so. Like, I wouldn't be overtly suprised if he flipped scum, but I think he's town.

Hiraki on the other hand, I really am starting to read as scum. He's very evasive, cagey, purposefully makes the game... not harder, but just doesn't answer simple questions. However, as pointed out by Whiskers, that's his meta, so he could just be scummy town. Again though, I feel he's scum.

@Rainbow - I'm pro-double lynch, and my lynch partners would be Hiraki/Friend. If they both flipped scum, I would then vote for a NS lynch tomorrow, as I feel he's the only other candidate for scum. I also agree with you on your Christine read, but I also find myself unable to explain exactly why.

So anways, here's my reads at the moment:

Rainbowdash: Town
Christine: Town
killerjester: Town
AurorusVox: Leaning Town
Whiskers: Leaning Town
Voidedmafia: Null
Friend Mairsil: Scum
Hiraki: Scum
Nobody Special: Scum

So with all that,
UNVOTE: Nobody Special
VOTE: Hiraki

[Robotnick2]

Way to say the exact same thing as RainbowDash in a blatant attempt to please her?

How dare you.

Also, if Friend Maresil and Hiraki both flipped scum, you wouldn't vote for any lynch the next Day, as the game only has three scum. Setup is in the first post, right? Did you read the game when you replaced in? I thought the confusion had been cleared up. Here's the [+townpoints for not knowing the setup, 'cause scum would know the setup blah blah blah] you asked for-- consider them signed with a kiss from Rainbowdash.

Call it a lapse of concentration. I had forgotten that we had already lynched 1 mafia.

Robotnick2 is desperately looking to be petted and somepony to say, "Good puppy."

Again, how dare you. Justify this please.

[Robotnick2]

but just doesn't answer simple questions.

Because that was really constructive and helpful to the game, now wasn't it?
Any chance you could put that into words that are pertinent to the game?

[Robotnick2]

I've got nothing to say until either Friend or Hiraki have something constructive to say, or someone reveals their one-shot scumdar that instantly exposes a scum. As I don't have that ability, and I suspect neither does anyone else, I'm just basically waiting for Friend/Hiraki to be lynched.

[Robotnick2]

And that's a hammer.

Oh dear.

[Robotnick2]

Christine, we had a double lynch set up.

Wanna tell us why you screwed that up?

[Robotnick2]

So you think Rainbow is scummier than Friend?

[Robotnick2]

Well that changes things somewhat.

At this juncture, I'm sticking to what I said before; Friend is scum. My second vote goes to NS. I don't have time to put a case together right now, but I will do one at some point.

VOTE: Friend Mairsil
VOTE: Nobody Special

[Robotnick2]

Just noting here that both Friend and Christine are L-2. If they're going to be our double lynch for today, which is where everyone seems to be headed, then I just thought everyone might like to know before another lynch gets screwed up.

Whiskers, why did you self-vote?

[Robotnick2]

unvote, unvote

Robotnick, were you trying to manipulate, or were you mistaken?

You unvoted in the same post you voted.

Try again.

^missed this.

[Robotnick2]

Just gonna throw this out there, I am town. I think you all agreed that I am town, but just made a stupid mistake.

If you vote off the two of us today, that leaves it with 6 alive. So, just keep that in mind that you are losing another Town. Pretty sure Friend is Scum, so its whatever, but if he isn't.... that would leave 4 Town 2 Mafia.

And with the mafia kill that leaves, worst case scenario, 3 Town 2 Mafia, with a 40% chance of hitting scum tomorrow.

Oh, and why are you now trying to defend yourself? You're still selfvoting...

[Robotnick2]

EBWOP: UNVOTE: Friend Mairsil to keep Christine and him with the same votes.
VOTE: Robotnick2 as a placeholder.

[Robotnick2]

EBWOP: UNVOTE: Friend Mairsil to keep Christine and him with the same votes.
VOTE: Robotnick2 as a placeholder.

You've got to be shitting me. It's because of you that the votes are uneven in the firstplace.

Now you have a vote on NS and on yourself. Are you proud?
What are you trying to accomplish?

You've misunderstood my actions.

I am the one unbalancing the votes. I re-balanced the votes by unvoting Friend. As I have to have 2 votes on different people, I voted myself purely as a placeholder.

That leaves Friend and Christine at L-3.

Now, NS is willing to vote Friend and Christine, which would put them at L-2. I would also be willing to vote them, as to me it would net at least 1 scum. That would put them at L-1. So.
Whiskers or killerjester: Would you be willing to vote Friend and Christine, double lynching them?

[Robotnick2]

Oh, wait, hang on, forgot I could double-unvote.

Unvote, Unvote

There.

[Robotnick2]

I am confused by the fact that he voted for NS and FM, then unvoted FM and voted himself... Why was he not trying to keep them even? That is, after all, what messed up the lynch yesterday...

Christine, as I have explained this multiple times, please just go do your own votecount. You'll see the point of what I did.

Whiskers, I don't have a clue. I wanted to unvote one person, but it didn't really register that I could unvote both people.

[Robotnick2]

We got some votes going, then Robot roles in and votes for FM and NS?

Mine was the first vote of the day. How could we have "got some votes going"?

Then, he unvotes FM and votes for himself? And then out of no where double unvotes, like he has suddenly realized. Nothing about that makes sense.

I unvoted FM to even the votes. I voted myself as a placeholder, as we have to have 2 votes at the same time. What I forgot was the equally valid possibility of unvoting both FM and NS, which I then did.

Now, that being said, should FM flip scum, which I think he will, my bet is on his scum buddy being NS or KJ. Lookit the lynch train yesterday... They weren't on the double lynching wagon. WTF?

So hang on. You want me dead, call me scum... and yet don't think I'm scum? Explain this please.

[Robotnick2]

Rainbowdash has requested replacement

...

[Robotnick2]

Intrigue and mystique make for the best loldrama.

In any case, the replacement hasn't changed any of my reads. My NS scum read is wavering slightly in favour of a VM scum read, but only slightly. I find his reactions somewhat vague and overly defensive.

[Robotnick2]

Obligatory prod-avoiding post.

Christing I'm reading as newb. There are scummier candidates to lynch today (IE Nobody Special).
Other than that, nothing else to say at this point. Will post again when that changes.

[Robotnick2]

/prod accepted.

idfk.

Because that is an extremely useful and insightful contribution to the game.
We seem to be having a lot of those lately.

[Robotnick2]

Robotnick2's here, just got nothing to say. I realise I'm not being exceptionally helpful, but I really don't have anything to say.

[Robotnick2]

This sentence also gave him a way out if he changed his mind and decided to bus Nintendo.

Liking the assumption that Nintendo is scum here.

To be completely honest, I really don't care anymore. Lynch me if you want, you'll lose a townie. If we lynch FM with me, I'm happy, I can go with a 1for1. Obviously not ideal, but then again lynching town is never ideal. At least lynching me will provide some impetus to an extremely dragging game.

[Robotnick2]

Yes. It shows you've actually read the game.

[Robotnick2]

Robo, I assume you think FM is scummy; who would be your second pick?

You, followed by KJ.
Good luck town!

[Robotnick2]

Also claiming VT. I actually agree with Christine at this point; KJ and FM are looking hella scummy right now.

[Robotnick2]

Feel free to elaborate

Feel free to elaborate on your FM not-case.

[Robotnick2]

FM I have already stated my case for. Nothing has changed.

You, KJ, I find scum for your reasoning on the FM case. I can easily read you as partnered with FM, as well as VM and (to an extent), NS.
You seem to be basing most of your reads from PoE. Thus, if FM flips scum, that upsets most of your reads.
So, here's a question for you.

What criteria do you personally use when you decide that someone is not scum with another person?

[Robotnick2]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 9#p3491139

[Robotnick2]

So wait. You openly admit, and indeed act upon, your belief that VM is mafia, yes? And yet the possibility that VM and FM are scum together is a less likely possibility than FM being mafia?

[Robotnick2]

FRIEND MAIRSIL contd.

As always, questions to FM are in bold.

Post 23: Basically negates all of the questions I asked in my last case.

By the way, those questions still apply. Answers would be nice.

Also diverts attention away from self. Scummy.

Post 24: Filler, mostly. Makes an interesting promise to "address everything before my lynch", and that we should "be expecting a pretty big post from me in the next hr or so."
For the record, no such post arrived.

Any particular reason?

Post 25: Standard scum post. "Oh, I don't know how I'm still alive, blah blah blah". Actually, that also applies to the last post. Does raise an interesting point about scum not killing RD, however smart mafia probably wouldn't for exactly that reason.

Post 26: Makes no sense to me.

What exactly did you mean by this post?

Post 27: Fairly sure we'd already established by this point that we needed to either use the double lynch today or not at all. Thus, shows that he's not reading the game. That is scummy.

Post 28: Null tell from this. This post, in isolation, could either be construed as scum or bad town. Thus, null.

Post 29:

Exactly how could we lose 3 town from only lynching 2 people?

. "bussing a team mate after one of our own just went down would be stupid". Yay for massive Wifom. Plus,

please give me the post where you "pushed for [VM's] lynch early in day 2 along with whiskers...or was it dash...". I can find no such post(s).

Post 30: Filler. Pure filler.

So, to answer your question bvoigt, I find FM as scummy as he was the last time I made a case on him.

Whiskers,

Wait wait, what happened to being willing to lynch yourself?

Who was this aimed at?

Similarly, bvoigt,

I see this as a scumtell. Earlier, she could have been trying to appear town: "Oh, I don't care if I'm lynched," but now that it looks like she is in fact the leading wagon, survivalism kicks in. Not caring about your lynch is not a scumtell, and survivalism is not usually a scumtell...but when you see both, I think it's scum trying to appear town.

Who are you talking about here?

[Robotnick2]

Friend, answer my questions please.

Whiskers, bvoigt, okay got it. Just checking.

[Robotnick2]

@robo - why do you want answers from a ghost? there nothing in those answers that will change the outcome of anything.

If you flip town - and I'm convinced you won't - but IF you flip town, it helps to have your opinions.

oh and i find it funny that me "not reading" the game is scummy? cuz the same could be said of you.

And... what have I said exactly that proves I've not been reading the game?

after my post #24 i came back on and explained that my internet was cut off which prevented me from posting

Didn't stop you posting it when you got back.

[Robotnick2]

Unvote, unvote

I presume that's what you mean?

My votes right now would go to Killerjester and Friend Mairsil.

[Robotnick2]

Oh, okay.

VOTE: Killerjester and Friend Mairsil

Nobody is at L-1

Christine is at L-2

Friend Mairsil is at L-3
Killerjester is at L-3
Robotnick2 is at L-3

Whiskers is at L-4

bvoigt is at L-5
Nobody Special is at L-5
Voidedmafia is at L-5

I suggest that people copy and update this list as they change their votes. It will, hopefully, help prevent another 'accident'.

[Robotnick2]

Oh, okay.

VOTE: Killerjester and Friend Mairsil

No-one is at L-1

Christine is at L-2

Friend Mairsil is at L-3
Killerjester is at L-3
Robotnick2 is at L-3

Whiskers is at L-4

bvoigt is at L-5
Nobody Special is at L-5
Voidedmafia is at L-5

I suggest that people copy and update this list as they change their votes. It will, hopefully, help prevent another 'accident'.

[Robotnick2]

Gah, forgot that we couldn't edit.

[Robotnick2]

One would think that the best way to placehold is to self-vote.

From what I understand, we can double lynch again today? What are people's opinions on that?

[Robotnick2]

EBWOP: Sorry, just went back and read the rules, we can't double lynch.