Mini 1243: Magician Mafia (Game Over)

Crab Canon · Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:48 pm

In post 1462, Amrun wrote:
In post 1459, 4nxi3ty wrote:if i make it to lylo, i am going to self-hammer.

That's playing against wincon and I will report you.

DDD, can you talk to anxiety about his attitude and his violating rule 23

This is Juls by the way. Anxiety is probably the worst player I have played with ever and I see him as nothing but a troll. I have zero respect for him after this page.

Crab Canon · Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:06 pm

The fact is your attitude has been piss poor. You have a little pissy party every time someone speaks to you. Saul asked you a simple question and you flat out refused to answer. That is just you trolling and ruining the game. What sucks is I think you are town because I don't think scum would be as abrasive. So I make no promises. You don't care about anyone else so why should I care about you? I'm done talking about this it is a distraction.

Crab Canon · Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:33 am

Who looks bad Junpei? Snake or Saulres?

Crab Canon · Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:28 am

It's a pretty common scum tactic actually. It forces the town to make bad choices at deadline just to ensure a lynch happens. I understand that people are busy and whatever, but we've really got to start heading toward the best lynch we can today. To those of you that are town, this very well could be the lynch that makes or breaks this game. Let's put a little effort in here.

Our hydra is willing to lynch Amrun or Junpei today.

We're strongly opposed to lynching Saulres.

Everyone else is middle of the road to townish. I'm not really sold on Snake being scum here just because I think his hammers and DGAF attitude are a little blatant. It would be a compromise lynch for us if that's gonna happen. I still say the VT pile has at least one scum, so that's something to think about to improve our odds.

Crab Canon · Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:09 am

doesn't give a frak

I do think there were probably more than one scum on the springlullaby lynch. I'm not sure about GNR. The fact Snake/LL were on every single lynch is almost a town point imo. Scum tend to not do that if they are even a little bit aware of how bad it looks. IDK. Junpei still bugs the crap out of me with how much of a sidelines game he's played this entire time.

Crab Canon · Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:31 am

In post 1506, Amrun wrote:I'm having sudden gut siezings over Crab Canon, whose vote should be on Junpei right now but is not.

I talked to Juls last night and she said she would try to put up a Junpei case for Anxiety today. I feel she's probably going to be able to articulate it much more thoroughly than I would. She said she's going to get a dog today, but she would try to get it up this evening. we have enough time before deadline I believe.

Crab Canon · Sat Oct 29, 2011 5:57 am

My major reasons for suspecting Junpei are:

1) Meta - I played with Junpei-town in a newbie game and he was relentless to the point of alienating even the town. He was very obvious town too. Here, not so much. He seems timid and acts like a follower. Not a leader (as he tried to be in his newbie game).

2) He jumps around and as I said above seems to follow. Today has been a prime example.

In 1236 he votes Anxiety. Then, in 1324 he follows Anxiety's case and votes us. Then he unvotes because he is content with our case but puts us back at L-1 in 1410 to entertain Anxiety. Then he revotes Anxiety in 1416. That sequence of posts was very obvious that he needed an excuse to jump back over to Anxiety since he knew he wasn't going to be able to pick apart our timeline.

This is just one example of having significant swings in reads. Not to mention that he chose Amrun as his kill choice last night. What? You come in voting us and Anxiety but your kill choice was Amrun?

3) The claim. It doesn't make sense. First night they both targetted Sotty and they died. Second night Junpei shot Anxiety and Saulres shot Fishy (but was blocked). So this proves that Junpei cannot kill alone and that potentially they have to be on the same target, right? Well wait, then there is night 3 where saulres stated in thread he was going after Anxiety yet Junpei targetted Amrun. Both were unblocked as far as we know and they targetted different people...but Vi died!!!! This seems like a pretty swingy role or something is missing. If we assume they have to target the same person for them to die then why was there a kill last night on someone that neither of them targetted. Saulres is clearly town and Junpei is very scummy so if it were a scum-town pairing then Junpei would be the scum.

4) The huge-mega-big-deal he made about "hydra dissonance". Seriously? It really read as reaching to me.

I (Juls) haven't seen Junpei as town the whole game. I have went back and forth on Amrun. I am going to let VP decide if he wants to move our vote to Junpei but that is my preference. If Junpei is scum we need to look at Anxiety hard because why would Junpei not want Anxiety killed when saulres put it in thread?...

Crab Canon · Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:55 pm

In post 1515, Junpei wrote:Also, if these are your major reasons for suspecting me, then why are they all so recent? I thought that I have been scummy to you the whole game pretty much, shouldn't there be more historic links?

Meta has been strong throughout the game and I have expressed it several times. Also, you have made the "hydra dissonance" argument on at least two occasions and defended it on more. The first time was day one. But the two for today is what makes me want to move my vote more than anything. When I was rereading your iso my already bad vibes got stronger about the claim. Remember I was away when the claim was made. Even though I was skimming I didn't get to really analyze it until I got back. I can't see how both of you are telling the truth and I believe saulres more than you. The Vi kill doesn't add up unless the role said if you disagree then some random third party is killed and that seems pretty bastardly.

Can you and saulres please restate your knowledge of your role and how it relates to the other person?

My understanding is:
-You don't know about each other.
-You both targeted sotty night 1 and they died.
-You targeted different people night 2 (fishy/anxiety) and no one died. Saulres was blocked.
-You targeted different people night 3 (anxiety/amrun) and Vi died.

Does your role suggest you are a single vig? I apologize if this has already been covered and given the short deadline it might be easier for you to just answer rather than me try to find it again.

Crab Canon · Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:56 pm

Unvote

until VP has a chance to weigh in. The vote may go right back.

Crab Canon · Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:16 pm

bastardly means a role that is not very fair to the player playing it or the people in the game in general.

I can only see two ways the mod would make this role:
1) You both have to target the same person.
2) You alternate nights of who gets the kill.

In either case the Vi kill doesn't make sense. The ONLY thing I can think of that does make sense is if the second is true and there is a mafia re-director that redirected the kill night 3. If that is the case then I would guess that Junpei has odd nights and saulres has even since he was blocked night 2 and there was no kill. In that case you would have been the one who submitted the kill night 3 and either you killed Vi or it was redirected.

Crab Canon · Sat Oct 29, 2011 5:26 pm

saulres wrote:Have any of you townies given thought as to why Ace was shot, instead of Snake, a PR who could potentially out at least one of them? Granted it's a bit of WIFOM, and maybe they were hoping to get Snake lynched today, but with none of them bringing it up, and nobody joining my (lonely) wagon on him, I think that's just more telling that he's probably one of them.

VP and I discussed this a little and thought Amrun could have killed him because of the "amazing" thing but we noted the same thing about leaving a role cop around. Our guess is either Amrun did it to clear herself, that mafia has some sort of investigation immunity, or Snake could be scum rolecop. There are too many scenario's to speculate though to be honest.

Crab Canon · Sun Oct 30, 2011 3:47 am

In post 1531, saulres wrote:
In post 1530, Crab Canon wrote:Amrun could have killed him because of the "amazing" thing

I don't follow this thought. Ace was Amazing. Snake claims to be Amazing. What do you think Amazing does, let you retarget something coming at you? If so, then why is Ace dead?

I lean towards thinking it's just flavor as all three Amazings have claimed.

I forgot that snake also claimed amazing. My thought was that am run may have killed ace to say "see, town has the amazing ability". But as you now remind me that could be snake too.

Crab Canon · Sun Oct 30, 2011 4:02 am

Anxiety, have you read and thought about the Junpei case we made upon your request?

Crab Canon · Sun Oct 30, 2011 5:20 am

Anxiety we think is town, despite his best efforts to get himself lynched in this game.

Snake has been not following along and making late wagon votes like they are going out of style. That of course is troublesome to some degree. On the other hand, it's one of those things that is blatantly scummy, so there is an element of wifom involved. Our hydra felt Locke was rather townish, even though his presence in the game was limited. I don't think we are willing to lynch him today just because we have stronger scum reads on Amrun and Junpei. The fact he isn't dead is a point against him, but then again, if the scum are investigation immune they may want Snake around as lynch bait.

Crab Canon · Sun Oct 30, 2011 6:34 am

Saul, why do you think there is a sk? There have been only two kill flavors. One you claim as the two-vig kill and the other we assume is mafia. So how could there be a serial killer? Unless you think junpei is a modified serial killer that doesn't make sense.

Crab Canon · Sun Oct 30, 2011 6:50 am

In post 1541, 4nxi3ty wrote:the redirect probably has something to do with the 'amazing' passive ability.

Can you explain what you mean?

Crab Canon · Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:09 am

vote:Amrun

Alright, we don't believe there is enough support for a Junpei lynch today despite our suspicions. We also believe that there is definitely a scum in the VTs and Amrun has the most likely chance of being that person. With deadline looming, she is the best choice today by far. Don't dally with this lynch much longer.

@ Saulres - You do realize it was likely GNR was lying about being bulletproof, right? He based his bullet proof claim on him being Penn Gillette and doing the bullet trick. He didn't flip Penn Gillette and was likely just basing a lie off of the information he got from Vi.

Crab Canon · Mon Oct 31, 2011 3:43 am

Look, bellyaching about Snake isn't going to make a lynch happen at this point. Amrun has connections to GNR, wasn't completely forthcoming about her role PM and at this point looks like the only viable lynch. All this hemming and hawing that is stalling this game down to deadline and possibly going to lose the game with a no lynch is pissing me off.

Everyone needs to be voting someone they think is lynchable and they need to do it now. If your vote is just hanging on a wagon that's not going to happen, then move it and make something happen. Anyone dawdling is much more likely to be scum.

Why is luxury so much in the background when they have two heads to post with?

Crab Canon · Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:19 am

I think we've been clear all day that we will lynch either Amrun or Junpei. Amrun is the wagon most likely to happen and running the lynch down to the wire is stupid.

Crab Canon · Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:47 am

I've been pretty clear that we're not going to get too speculative on NKs and such. It's a lot of wifom no matter the theory being proposed, even an obvious one like Fishy blocking and Anxiety kill. Based upon behavior, I think it's pretty clear that Anxiety is such an aloof townie. I don't think he'd be picking the fights like he has if he already had a RB strike against him. It's not impossible for him to be scum, but we think it's unlikely. Amrun is a much much better lynch.

sorry

Crab Canon · Mon Oct 31, 2011 12:07 pm

Saulres - wanting to lynch Anxiety over SK speculation seems like a poor plan. I'm really not certain why you feel that way. I can at least understand Luxury's POV that Anxiety was blocked on a night with no kill, even if I don't agree with it.

You feel that Amrun is pretty strongly town?

Crab Canon · Mon Oct 31, 2011 12:48 pm

In post 1573, saulres wrote:It seems reasonable to put two and two together and say 4nxi3ty shot someone on N1

This is where I think you're getting off track. It doesn't seem logical to me to make that assumption at all. What if the mafia just shot Vi N1 and then again when she died. I don't understand why you think that's less logical than Anxiety = SK who had his shot blocked.

Crab Canon · Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:38 pm

Maybe the mafia and your tiger both struck Vi on the same night, thus accounting for the missing kill. voila.

Much more simple, but still just as filled with wifom.

Crab Canon · Mon Oct 31, 2011 2:02 pm

derp, I read what you wrote wrong. sorry.

Anyhow, you're right, I don't have a theory that explains a blocked scum kill on N2. Regardless, I do think your theory is a lot of speculation and that's all it would ever be. I don't think you should lynch over speculation instead of actual scumminess. This is me talking from experience. Outguess the mod is a bet against the house.

Crab Canon · Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:08 am

OK, so our hydra has been talking and if we're going to have to compromise on the Amrun lynch, we're willing to lynch snake over Anxiety. Anxiety reads as more townie to us. We will be switching our vote today if people are not going to wake up and lynch Amrun.

Crab Canon · Tue Nov 01, 2011 8:30 am

Anxiety, Luxury isn't getting lynched today.
What are your feelings on Amrun?

Crab Canon · Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:21 am

In post 1556, Crab Canon wrote:Look, bellyaching about Snake isn't going to make a lynch happen at this point. Amrun has connections to GNR, wasn't completely forthcoming about her role PM and at this point looks like the only viable lynch. All this hemming and hawing that is stalling this game down to deadline and possibly going to lose the game with a no lynch is pissing me off.

Everyone needs to be voting someone they think is lynchable and they need to do it now. If your vote is just hanging on a wagon that's not going to happen, then move it and make something happen. Anyone dawdling is much more likely to be scum.

Why is luxury so much in the background when they have two heads to post with?

Junpei, this sums up our suspicions of Amrun.

Crab Canon · Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:34 am

From our hydra QT (it's probably in our iso too somewhere but I found it faster in the QT):

VP Baltar in Hydra QT wrote:Wasn't Amrun actively defending him
[GNR]
earlier though? Saying we weren't going to lynch GNR today and stuff? I don't like the way she came in to hop on the yay-scumhanging wagon, but who knows.