Mini 456: Ultimatum Mafia - Game Over!

[DeanWinchester]

We need to avoid using the terms town and scum. They simply don't apply.

We have:
1. A group of three that knows each others identity.
2. A group of three that knows each others identity.
3. A Group of Six that do not know each others identity.

Even the biggest group has a 50/50 ratio. So Town/scum terms don't really apply.
This nomiantion system does not help the group of six. It gives the groups of three an advantage because they can help control the group of six without making challenges themselves.

If the group of six can figure out who is in the group, it's game over. We can use our superior numbers and the, over looked, rule that you can only challenge once untill everyone has gone atleast once.

Anouther issue with this nom theroy is that won't the person nominated to be the challenger most likely lose anyway?

This whole nom system is a way for the groups of three to take control of the game and make it like a normal game of mafia.

For the group of six to win we need to figure out who is (or most likely) in this group and abuse our numbers.

We can set this up so every vote is between us and one of the groups of three. With our numbers we can win every vote. All we have to do is survive one dead lock vote and of course never make the mistake of challeging one of our own.

This nom theroy puts the group of six in a situation where we have to nom each other as opose to going after the smaller groups. The smaller groups can not afford to chalenge each other or they will lose to our numbers.

For the group of six this day is lylo for us, kinda. We need to get a challenge between us and any group of three and win the deadlock. If we can acomplish that we win because every vote will then be between us and one of the smaller groups or small group vs small group, which we are fine with because we will have the numbers to make the debate go our way every round

@ The rest of the group of six: If we lose one of us today it going to be hard to win. If we can get one of the smaller groups today it will be incredibly hard to lose.

Note: If the challenge ends up with one of the six and one of the three's we will almost know imediately who is among the six because neither of the small groups can afford to give us numbers. Thus they can't afford to vote for one of the six to win.

@Mr stoofer: I don't think you are in the group of six. This nom theroy sucks.

[DeanWinchester]

I'm here content coming.

[DeanWinchester]

I've been busy and that is why I have only posted once.

As for my one post, the point of it was to point out that if the group of six can get a general ideal of who is else is in the group we can end this imediately. If we can get one or two scum early our numbers will make it hard for either group to win.

I don't like Nominating both poeple to be in the debate. I thinks it is best, (if we have to use the nom. system) to nom. just one and let that one person choose who to go up with. It will give us insight into what the person we nominated is thinking and keep the smaller groups a little more cautious of attacking poeple and trying to get poeple nominated.

Sparks play is annoying and illogical. That does not nescacarilly make sparks scum. It dosn't look good, but it is not definitive proof.

Mostly I can't make heads or tails of sparks actions because they don't really make sense no matter what side sparks is on.

Dylan has contributed very little and I agree that I would like to get some info out of him before voting.

This speculation that scum can talk during the day is kind of scary. Being able to strategize on the fly is extremely dangerous.

[DeanWinchester]

I still don't like stoofer and his last post is not going to change my mind.

He dosn't vote for sparks, but says that he will.

Lynching a player because they are annoying and completly disregarding any argument for why they are town is bad.

Your reasoning that sparks is scum because sparks says that scum couldn't talk during the day, is ridiculous. The assumption should be that they can't talk during the day and the theory that they can, sounds more like a scum tell than anything else.

Most likely I will be voting to keep sparks, but it is not set in stone.
I want to hear from dylan because his content up to this point has been non-existent.

IGMEOY DanMonkey

He has also had little content and does a quick vote on sparks.

@stoofer: Yes I know I am just barely better at lurking than Dan and Dylan, So If you are going to FOS me for this please represent a case for why you think I'm scum other than my lurking.

[DeanWinchester]

Dylan's made a really lame lie. And hasn't ansewered it yet. This has me heavily favoring a sparks save instead of a dylan save.

Didn't sparks challenge before a majority wanted sparks to?

Speaking of reading the ser up, if sparks survives the day, we have to remember that sparks CAN NOT challenge again till everyone else has challenged once.

[DeanWinchester]

Sparks I want a reply that is fresh and not a bunch of qoutes of your previous posts.

I have read your posts, but I want a fresh reiteration of your points.

So did Dylan striat up deny lying?

This is going to come down to:

1.Should Dylan by lynched for lying

or

2. Should sparks be lynched for wierd play and the no talking during the day thing.

I will be voting before morning most likely.

[DeanWinchester]

After that stuningly unimpresive display of the noms trying to save each other, I will cast my vote now because I will be busy the next two days. I doubt we would get more out of these two anyway.

I think sparks being adamant about the can't talk during the day was blown out of proportion and the attacks on him have been kind of opurtonistic. But his post have been extremely wierd and off the wall. And he has deneid to ansewer sevral questions.

I think Dylan's lurking coupled with his third nom on me is extremely suspect. His trying to past his vote off as a random vote with no meaning is also extremely alarming. Even his post-nom post's have had little content other than I'm new and didn't understand what I was Doing. Danmonkey's quick vote to save him also dosn't sit well

Dylan blatant lying about his reasoning has my vote going to sparks

Vote Sparks

[DeanWinchester]

I'm here, Have not had a chance to go back and look at the thread now that we know those two are mafia.

I think making the assumption that the third member absolutely voted for sparks is dumb. There is a very good chance that the third scum voted to save dylan to distance themselves from sparks.

The Person to go after today is Dylan. His poor job at defending himself, his blatant lying about his nom vote on me being random, and his very wierd allusion to a power role. Which was noted yesterday, but not brought up by many poeple.

Danmonkeys quick vote to save Dylan has me very suspicous of him. The fact that we can't get an ansewer on this question has my very disapointed.

[DeanWinchester]

The right move, whether or not Van Damien is lying, is to keep him around. In a game where everyone is vanilla killing Van would only help the other group. He can't win with the town, but keeping him around is the same as keeping a townie around. For now that is. At some point we will have to kill him. But right now his body can be helpful.

@mneme: I really don't get your stance. You say twice how you think there is a good chance Dylan is scum, but both times you nominate someone else. BM than Me. What?

I would Nom. Dylan, but I still don't really like this system even though it worked very well Day 1. Plus I think Dylan is almost certain to be in the debate today.

[DeanWinchester]

Don't have time to fully read the thread right now, will tonight probably.

My initial reaction is that we should also lynch BM. Going after VD today is pointless and not beneficial to the town.

[DeanWinchester]

Hmm... Dylan voting to save vandamein has me conviced that Dylan I s scum. I think BM may come up town, but I still agree with his lynch it gives us more info than lynching VD.

Dylan is getting a major pass here. He should at the very least been involved in the debate today. I'm going to suspect anyone that challenges anyone, but Dylan.

Vote: Van Damien

I see know way BM actions could have helped the town.

[DeanWinchester]

The way Dylan voted is why I find it suspect. His positioning, his bandwaggoning, and quick vote. Even though He had said two words the whole day leading up to his vote.

I don't have a problem with who he voted, I have problem with how his vote played out.

[DeanWinchester]

I find it helpful to maybe wait and see how other poeple feel before just droping the axe.
I target you for your play. Your vote does not sit well with me for the way it went down.

And i think you are guilty because of you lying about your random vote, you allusion to having some kind of power role, even though they do not exist in this game, Your lurkyness and refusal/hestitation in answering questions. Not to mention your save yesterday also increases my suspicions that you scum buddies helped you out.

[DeanWinchester]

@Albert: What?

Any chance of you explaining your list's Dylan?

[DeanWinchester]

MOD: Did VD proxy a CHALLENGE to go to someone who has four noms or more ?

I think we need to revisit having VD not vote to save someone. This will ensure his death with out wasting our lynch.

Alberts(DanMonkeys) actions seem to be an attempt to distract from Dylans scumness. He has no reason to go after Mneme. I still think the correct play is to go after Dylan.

[DeanWinchester]

Does anyone have an objection to me challeging dylan now instead of waiting?

We seem to be mostly in agreement that he should be the next to go.

And I can't think of any reason not to lynch him.

[DeanWinchester]

The silence from some of the most active posters has me certain Dylan is the lynch for today.

[DeanWinchester]

I would like to point out that the reason i would like to challenge dylan, Is I feel that i could easilly point out why dylan should be lynch and why I should be saved.

[DeanWinchester]

As for comments regarding my last post. For some reason I thought closer to day had past instead of like six hours. I was really drunk when I made the second post. My thinking was that Dylans scum buddies were hoping that he would get a pass, because of him not being around, and he would not be challenged, thus me saying I really want to challenge Dylan was being ignored. My drunken thinking is really kind of convoluted.

I think the best scenario for us will be Dylan getting Mod killed and VD not being Mod killed, on the off chance that if Dylan is town we don't end up losing two Anti-liberal bodies. If Dylan shows up hopefully VD will too.

[DeanWinchester]

I think Dylans timely apearance is highly questionable. His lame attempt at convincing us stewie is scum is laughable. The evidence against Dylan is staggering. I don't feel like waiting knowing I have a couple buzy days coming up.

Vote stewie

[DeanWinchester]

We need to leave van damien alone for today we need the body. I'm going to do a re-read and see what I can find.

[DeanWinchester]

@VD: Can scum talk in scum-chat?

[DeanWinchester]

I asked the question to VD because i did not find his earlier response. My bad.

As far as the current discussion goes i think it has gotten pretty circular. Yosarian's defense of BM does bother me. It seems a little too... perfect. The way everything played out seems to have made Yosairan look really pro-town.

[DeanWinchester]

albert challenge who you think is scum. Than explain why you think they are scum. Trying to pick someone you think you can out debate is a scum move in this scenario.

[DeanWinchester]

I would also like a response from menme. I would like vote soon because my weekend will be buzy.

[DeanWinchester]

Vote mneme.

Hopefully ia voided mod killed. I don't think I did. crap.

[DeanWinchester]

I'm likeing any challenge that involves albert or stoofer. Alberts save yesterday seemed odd. His case against mneme was week, his decision on who to attack seemed really wierd, and how quick he got votes to save himself seemed wierd.

Not to mention stoofers post guiding albert away from challeging some one he thinks he can beat to someone he thinks is scum, seems alot like scum coaching now. If albert can't challenge than I'm fine with

Nom. stoofer

[DeanWinchester]

Nevermind that last part. I thought stoofer was the one that said what the fonz did.

[DeanWinchester]

I think the scum are not giving out noms hoping to deadline. If activity doesn't increase soon I'm going to challenge stoofer or albert.

[DeanWinchester]

I think deadline is about any time three hours from now.

[DeanWinchester]

I have not liked stoofers play. I don't like how albert defended him and in general I think the case against stoofer, especially his voting record, is suspect.

Vote: The fonz

I think The fonz willing to step up and challenge stoofer is a very good sign that he is town.

[DeanWinchester]

I'm going to go cry in a corner.

Crap the room is circular.