Mini 413 - Famous CATS - Over! Quit pussyfooting around!

[Nai]

Okay folks, time for some observations from the new player. The two people I'm suspicious of? Theo and DrippingGoofball.

Theo has suddenly come up with a double vote, but the only claimed gift-giver said she hasn't given it to him. I doubt that someone else gave it to him, and I can't help but wonder if its his own ability and he isn't telling us. While I don't deny the possibility of a redirect (as was already stated in-thread), there was the comment that Theo was low on Dripping Goofball's list. He's also claimed vig, but not claimed a specific cat. I dislike that vig claim.

The other is DrippingGoofball. Now, I don't know about you guys, but I researched the claims we've had so far. Primate's role, Nicky, is a real cat. Glork's detective cat is a real cat. I researched my own cat, and he's real. All of them have a Wikipedia entry, enough information for you to understand what happened, and links to corroborate the story.

Funnily enough, DrippingGoofball's "Tuffy the Stunt Cat" isn't in Wikipedia. After looking a little more, I found that there's only two 'Tuffy's that are remotely famous. One was Ann-Margaret's cat. Nothing famous about him, no personal wikipedia entry, nor even a blurb on Ann-Margaret's page. Just a comment under 'historical cats' that says he belonged to her. The other Tuffy is a cartoon character, a mouse, on Tom and Jerry. Y'know, that little one that always speaks in french? Jerry's sidekick? That's him.

Furthermore, I looked up YouTube. Remember those links that DG gave us? Or, rather, the one link to the cat falling off the ledge? Did you find it odd at all that the link went straight to the video, and not to the actual page so you could read the commentary? The cat that's supposedly on America's Funniest Home Videos? I went to YouTube and searched "Tuffy Stunt Cat". Nothing. "Tuffy Stunt." Nothing. "Tuffy Cat". Well, lots of videos, but no stunt cat.

And google? You won't get anything if you search for "Tuffy the Stunt Cat". If you search for "Tuffy" "Stunt Cat", though, you'll find three entries. Two seem to be ads, and neither for this supposed tuffy. And the third? Dripping Goofball's claim.

Now, I don't know about you, but a supposed famous cat in this game should be researchable, right? Not just a random cat that no one else can find? Especially with an ability that has nothing to do with the cat, sounds like a Cartoon flavor, and seems to be going odd places?

I'd hedge my bets on a Theo/DrippingGoofball scum team right now.

Vote: DrippingGoofball.

[Nai]

EBWODP: Anyone notice, by the way, that Primate could have had up to 9 clones, becoming the cat with

10

lives?

[Nai]

Theo: You never said, I believe, that you'd lose the double vote. So there was no way of me knowing. Why, exactly, are you voting Pooky?

Primate: That's odd... Does that mean that he had another use for the money?

[Nai]

Glork, did you send a message to Pooky last night?

[Nai]

I received nothing, unless the mod didn't tell me.

DG, I want an answer to my statements about you. Why, exactly, can't I find any mention of your 'famous cat' anywhere on the internet?

[Nai]

How would we be at LyLo... well, with 9 people alive, 8 after lynch, if it's a mislynch, for us to be at lylo means there would have to be 4 mafiates? Well, wait, if it only takes half to lynch (5) and it takes half of THAT to lynch Nai (3), then if we mislynch today, mafia can quick lynch Nai tommorrow, and then have a majority the next day.
Nai, are you still only at half to lynch?

I received an ability last night, but I Wasn't targetted by DGB, last night, so... unless maybe it's a delayed targetting system; I was targetted by her last night.
DGB, did you target Theo n1?

I'm still most suspicious of Theo. But now I'm curious about Glork.

Anyways.

To clarify: I will ALWAYS be at a very low lynch amount. There is a chance my lynch limit could go lower. I haven't taken that chance yet.

Zaye, but there is a whole video, and I was on America's Funniest Videos or sum'thin'


Tuffie the Stunt Cat
http://www.youtube.com/v/ETpXoIJz6Js

See, you did it again. You linked directly to the video, not to the actual page. So there's no way we can verify what it is. All we know is it's a video of a cat falling down. I don't know about the rest of you, but the mod didn't give me a link to information about my cat with my role PM.

1) There is no indication that this cat's name is "Tuffie."
2) If you wait until the end of the video and glance down at the first video of the "related videos" section, you'll see that the video's name is actually "Sleeping Cat Accident." This is no "stunt cat." This cat is not famous.


At this point, I'm okay with lynching Pooky and, when he turns up scum, having Theo vig DGB.

Thank you.

Znow I think you're doing on purpose, you are misrepresenting facts very, very badly and ominously.

LISTEN TO THE AUDIO!!!!

You can clearly hear: "Here's Tuffie the Stunt Cat" - the spelling is from the PM, it may or may not be correct.

TRY AGAIN, Glorkscum, TURN UP THE VOLUME!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETpXoIJz6Js

And if you look at the lower right hand corner, you can see the watermarked initials of the "AFV" program, America's Funniest Videos.

Major FOS Glork

I missed the announcer/watermark as well. That STILL doesn't make you famous, though. I can find everyone else on Wikipedia. Why not you?

Nai is with you on this, laying suspicion on my claim, too. He claimed there is no mention of my cat on the internet, and Glork supports him by saying my name is wrong, and I am not famous, when I have been on a popular TV show. And WITHOUT DOING PROPER RESEARCH or reading on the link I've already posted twice (and a third time today) - he boldly votes against me, early in the day, when it's important that we lynch properly.

Also, Glork is questioning my choice of players when I have been mindful not to accidentally hurt the town by sending what might have been undesirable gifts.

It really does look like Nai and Glork were talking all night choreographing the day to pull the wool over the townie's eyes.

It's like shooting fish in a barrel. Thank you for making this day so easy.

vote: Glork - and the other scum is Nai.

Excuse me? "Reading the link"? All you posted, TWICE, was a direct link to a video that, if you don't have sound on, means absolutely nothing. This is also a cat that can't be found ANYWHERE else. I don't call that famous. Nice try, scum.

Pookie: Your thesis is VERY thin.

ZIf the one-shot investigation ability came from me, as the double-vote, it does look like I am distributing some pretty awesome goodies, mmmm, catnip.

Good to know for tonight.

Now, let's suppose for an instant that the one-shot investigation fell into the hands of scum... what then?

Glork, who is claiming cop, came against two townies VERY STRONGLY in the first two days. Yet now on the third, he claims to have a guilty, and, coincidentally, Miztef has an "innocent" on Glork. And they arrange from Nai to cast suspicion on me with Glork's assistance.

This is one diabolical scumscheme. You'll be shoe-in's for a Scummie Award.

I think the scum is Glork, Miztef and Nai.

Or, and this is more likely, you are scum who has been caught in a lie that no one else investigated, and you're pulling everything you can to try to live through this day. If you were town, you wouldn't overreact so much, and you would point out to me where I could find more information on Tuffy. Instead, you ignore this fact, throw us the video again, and start throwing suspicion.

THEY CHOSE TO NOT KILL CONFIRMED INNOCENTS OR GO AFTER THE DOC IN ORDER TO GET A GURANTEED NIGHTKILL ON SOMEONE WHO NOBODY WOULD THINK WOULD GET KILLED!!

This is so wrong it's not even funny. They CAN'T kill Primate. He'd have at least two lives, just to keep him alive. And he could possibly keep getting them. So they kill the guy to stop him from getting those lives. As soon as I saw the claim, I knew massive was dead.

What I find funny about your arguments is that you are saying that scum has been planning a set-up to quicklynch me BEFORE it was even revealed I'd die easy. You're saying Glork was setting this up from day 1, when my weakness was only revealed day 2.

@Skruffs: Isn't Data's cat a fictional cat? It's certainly not a real cat. Also, why did you target yourself with a random ability night 0?

I believe the enemy is ANIMATED cats, not fictional cats. The first post says as much. REAL cats (which can also mean actors) are safe.

It's not a case of real vs. animated, though, it's Fictional vs. Non-fictional. And your cat is undisputedly fictional.

Wrong, read first post.

Dalton the Wonder Cat.

The claim is real, I've found several sites on it. However, I'm really unable to find much on the cat himself. Supposedly he's a TV host and book author, but I can't find information on the show or the book.


Now, I'm almost willing to claim at this point, as several people have asked. However, I want to throw a

MAJOR FOS: Skruffy

for wanting to lynch me for no adequate reason.

[Nai]

The votes to lynch me were, at beginning of game, 3, due to the flavor of my cat. I have two potential night actions I can make. One of them could end up in me going down to 2 votes to be lynched. If I do it again, I'd go down to 1 vote to lynch. Timmy didn't do it, I didn't do it.

[Nai]

I write my posts in Notepad. I didn't erase that comment when I made the post.

And sorry, thought I responded to that. I'm not sure what you mean by that, but I wasn't given any PMs when I joined up.

[Nai]

While I have targetable abilities, I haven't used them, and, as far as I'm aware, Timmy didn't use them either.

[Nai]

Out of my own curiosity, I'm PMing to the mod to make sure Timmy didn't either.

Why did you ask?

[Nai]

Pooky, your entire thing here relies on so many random variables it isn't funny. It's a series of events pulled out of the ass of a player that could only POSSIBLY work if, and only if, every single thing is right. There are so many that could be wrong that your thing is paper thin.

To begin with, no, I don't think it's out of the question. The further we go, the more investigations done, the higher chance of finding scum.

Right now, Pooky, I trust you MUCH less than I trust Glork. I'm currently looking at Theo, DG, and Pooky for a scum team.

[Nai]

Okay, yeah, Nai was 3 to vote when UT claimed yesterday - confirmed by vote counts.
If there was three scum, they could have quicklynched him yesterday. Interesting.
Hmm. They would have suffered for it, though.
Too bad Nai's not inspected, it would have been really useful to know if she's going to be collateral for the town. Razz One of Pooky or Glork have to be scum, though.

I don't think they would have quicklynched me yesterday. There was no point; Ubertimmy wasn't showing any signs of being a power role, and they could go with the town to test Primate. They can't lose when they're lynching town.

Zpooky has shot so many holes in Glork's arguments, Glork has been ripped to shreds. It's just a gut feeling, it's hard to put into words, but I feel that Pooky has the interest of the town at heart, while Glork is plotting something in broad daylight.

Only scum could say this about Pooky's argument. His argument is thin. It's full of holes. It relies on so many random variables that no sane person would listen to it. Or no town person, for that matter.

We lynch Pookie. If Pookie turns up scum, then we are no longer in lylo until tommorrow. Glork is mostly confirmed, Theo can vig DGB. PRObably two scum down.

If Pookie turns up town, then theo can vig glork tonight (if possible). Now scum might have a role blocker or something, so, theo may not be able to vig Glork tonight, (which I would only suggest he do if pookie turns up town)...

If glork is really gambitting as scum, and theo is kept from killing him, then in the morning it becomes a matter of quicklynching him BEFORE scum quicklynch nai.

I don't trust this plan. Sorry, but I don't like plans with conditions. "If this then this" never works. Not only do you give the scum the exact plan to watch out for (so if they can roleblock/etc, they can), you also let them know how to weasel out of it.

This plan COULD work, though, for specific reasons involving my role.

Granted, Skruffs, I won't show up as "Cop,"

Zah, shucks, now it turns out that Glork won't show up as "cop"!!!

You know, he could turn up as "Alignment Finder" or something of the sort. Stop trying to twist words, and think for a minute.

Ok then Glork, tell me WHY mizteftown would choose to withhold a ONE SHOT INVESTIGATION UNTIL AFTER YOU COME UNDER FIRE.

It seems fairly obvious to me.

To figure out if he's town so we don't waste a lynch on him.

Yes it may seem that some of the things I have said are random and must be true, but I know this must be so

One word: How.

GLORKS MOVE DOESNT MAKE ANY SENSE TO ME IF HE CANT PREVENT HIMSELF FROM BEING VIGGED THE NIGHT AFTER.

Occam's Razor says that the simplest explanation is that Glork is town, and you're scum trying to pin this on him.

SUPPOSEDLY THE TOWN HAS SEVEN PSEUDO MASONS WHO CAN BACK EACH OTHER UP.

I think this is a misrepresentation. Zindaras/Carbon Copy are masons. Primate is NOT a mason, he's a townie with extra lives. Miztef was NOT a mason, he just knows someone else in the game and not their alignment. I only saw one mason pair this game, you're trying to make it like we have tons. Someone knowing that some other role in the game is NOT mason.

may let them pretty much smash the town completely?

And here's the crux of the situation. No, I don't think the scum have roles that make it impossible for us to beat them. The 'pseudo masons', as you call them, are not that powerful. Most of them aren't masons at all, and the others have action-specific abilities. You're pulling this out your ass.

IT SIMPLY DOES NOT MAKE SENSE AS A SETUP FOR THE SCUM TO HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO CHANCE TO BEAT THE TOWN.

No, you're right, it doesn't. But I don't think the scum have a doctor, or a day ending mechanism (they could have used it already), or a one shot daykill (which could have been used already).

There is a possibility that Theo is lying, or that they have a roleblocker, or that Glork is unnightkillable, or that they have a redirector. However, I believe that Glork is telling the truth, because, if you notice the notes, there's always at least one answer regarding a scum question, and today's is just outright said.

Can someone remind me if we've all claimed, both role and flavor? I think that Theo's flavor is still missing, I don't recall seeing Miztef's complete deal.


Claim List:
Theo: Claimed vig.
Skruffs: Can't recall
Primate: Little Nicky, cloned cat (extra lives)
Nai: Hasn't claimed, low vote count kill
Glork: Detective Cat, message sender/cop
Miztef: One-shot conditional cop
Pooky: Wonder Cat, replacer
DrippingGoofball: Tuffy the Sleeping Acrobat Cat, inventor
Carbon Copy: Rainbow, Cloned Cat; mason.

[Nai]

1) Are you honestly saying its more likely given the power level of the claimed town that the scum are completely toothless? Yes my theory relies on the scum having some kind of power, but you do realize that this setup would be HORRIBLY UNBALANCED AND NEVER WOULD HAVE PASSED ANY REVIEW IF THE SCUM DIDNT HAVE SUCH ANY POWER BECAUSE THEY WOULD BE COMPLETELY WIPED OUT BY THE TOWN?

Stop using the 'this couldn't pass review' excuse! It doesn't NEED to pass review, first of all. I've had games just done without review. Don't ask like a review is end-all be-all.

No, I already said, I don't think that they're toothless. But I don't think that they're as powerful as you claim.

I was NOT contesting Miztef's claim of innocent result on Glork but the TIMING of the claim. IF YOU ARE A ONE SHOT COP YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY ZERO FUCKING INCENTIVE TO WAIT TO GIVE OUT YOUR INFORMATION BECAUSE THERE IS NO POINT!! IT IS A ONE SHOT ABILITY ITS NOT LIKE YOU NEED OT HIDE FROM THE SCUM IN CASE THEY SHOOT YOU TO PREVENT A FURTHER INVESTIGATION!!! HE SHOULD HAVE CLAIMED FIRST THING IN THE MORNING RIGHT AWAY. INSTEAD HE CLAIMS THIS INVESTIGATION RIGHT AFTER ALL HELL BREAKS LOSE AND GLORK COMES UNDER MASSIVE ATTACK.

It was his first post of the day. Are you saying he was lurking for no reason?

I know this to be true BECAUSE MY ROLE PM SAYS I AM PROTOWN AND THE ONLY REASON GLORK WOULD GO AFTER ME LIKE THIS IS IF HE WAS SCUM AND HAD SOME WAY TO COVER HIS ASS AND FORCE A WIN AFTER THE MISLYNCH I ALREADY !@#$ING EXPLAINED IT READ MY !@#$ING POST.

This whole section relies on me believing you are protown. If I don't believe you, there's no point in you continuing to say "My role PM says I'm protown." I have no way of checking to see what your PM says, so there's no point continuing to say it. It means nothing to me. Sto using it.

OCCAMS RAZOR? HAVE YOU SEEN THE GAME SETUP THATS BEEN REVEALED SO FAR? DOES ANYTHIGN ABOUT THIS GAME SEEM SIMPLE TO YOU ? ARE YOU !@#$ING KIDDING ME!?!?

The game doesn't need to be simple for Occam's Razor to apply. The principle applies to the SOLUTION, not to the problem.

Miztef could confirm Buddy

Unles I'm missing something, Miztef could NOT confirm Buddy. He wanted buddy to DIE. That's not the action of a mason group. Get your facts straight.

And Primate knows he needs money and chances are whoever is giving him money aint scum cuz a acartoon having money makes no sense and a scum would not give money to a protown role in the first bloody place so that's 7.

There's no way for Primate to know that Massive is town. There's no way for Massive to know that Primate is town. Primate only knew that the person he was sending messages to (remember, he didn't even know it was massive, just an investor) had money, and Massive only knew he was answering someone. Read the day, get the facts, and stop making it up.

How are they NOT that powerful? here's a hypothetical situation: they all claim day 1

As Glork said: Would you really believe all that claimed day 1? I think not.

i want ot honestly kick you

did you even read my post?

DONT !@#$ING TELL ME THAT I NEED RANDOM THINGS TO HAPPEN

WHAT I ACTUALLY NEED IS ONE THING TO BE TRUE

THE SETUP IS BALANCED

THAT IS THE ONLY THING I NEED TO BE TRUE

No, you need the game to be even for YOU. Right now, I don't need your ideal game. It can be setup whatever the way it is. Stop gaming the mod.

GIVEN THAT THIS WAS MADE BY A HUMAN BEING AND ALSO REVIEWED AND PASSED BY ANOTHER HUMAN BEING I HONESTLY DONT !@#$ING KNOW HOW THE !@#$ YOU CAN DECIDE TO SAY THAT THE SETUP BEING BALANCED IS A "RANDOM THING"

How do you know that it was reviewed? And what does that matter?

3 Masons in Thesp/Miztef/Buddy
2 Masons in Carbon/Zind
2 Masons in Primate/Massive.

Again: Miztef wanted Buddy dead, so that's not a mason.
Carbon/Zind is a mason, yes.
Primate and Massive didn't know who they were. Primate actually said this. Massive confirmed this. Stop using false facts.

GIVE ME ONE WAY THEY COULD POSSIBLY AVOID LOSING WITHOUT HAVING SOME TYPE OF INCREDIBLE POWER THAT YOU ARE DENYING THAT THEY WOULD HAVE.

As previously said. No mason group would believe any other mason group were real. But, as also previously said, there is only one mason group. No one would believe a full mass claim without proving each and every role, so the scum just have to sow the seeds of distrust and they win. Think about humans, since you're using human nature as a defense.

If it isn't a BALANCED SETUP then it ISNT THE SETUP WE ARE PLAYING WITH BECAUSE IT WOULD NOT HAVE PASSED SETUP REVIEW

False dicotomy. It could have been unreviewed. It could be a slightly unbalanced. Roles that we know could have disadvantages that aren't revealed so scum can't take advantage of them. THINK, Pooky, instead of making up conspiracies.

@Theopor: Your claim checks out, though I'm not sure how surviving a cannon ball or killing rats equates to killing cats.

Z'what sets you apart, Glork, is that you were inconsistent with your claim throughout, and you kept changing it, adding to it, backtracking, publishing errata, admitting to half-truths... hey, forgive me for thinking you're scum after all that.

And frankly, if that's not scummy, it's impossible for anyone to be scummy.

Or he wasn't revealing the whole thing so he didn't get lynched. Maybe?

And yes, I deliberately asked a question I knew the answer to, because I wanted to see if I could catch DGB in a flat-out lie. Apparently she couldn't be bothered to read over her own posts, whereas I most certainly can.

KNEW you were doing this. I was hoping to say I found her lie, too, but... You said it first.

[Nai]

Okay, I just got information from the Mod that I wasn't given initially. Before I reveal this information, I have to reveal my role, because this information DOES help us a little bit.

I am Lewis the Cat, a feline from Connecticut. Flavorwise, I supposedly attacked people in my neighborhood and was put under eternal house arrest.

Now, for the role bits. My lynch-count is so low because I'm on probation from the law. So it doesn't take much to take me out.

Due to my fierce nature, I am able to vig someone if I so choose. As well, because I'm well known to be a badass, I may also interrogate a person and get info from them. Now, my role PM says that I am just a 'cop', but, from the PM I just received from the mod, it seems I am a ROLE cop, not just a normal cop.

In addition, both of these abilities have drawbacks, which I am not posting here. If another event happens (which I am ALSO not revealing), my vote-to-kill count can also go down by one vote each night, to a minimum of a single vote killing me.

Due to my restrictions, I did not do any action last night. I was afraid I would have hit one of my restrictions and screwed myself.

Night 0 (before day 1), Timmy did nothing. However, night 1 (after day 1) Timmy did both of my actions. It was he that vigged Thesp (or, at least, made the attempt). He also investigated Primate, and got the Little Nicky response. This is why I believe I'm a ROLE cop, not a normal cop. It is unfortunate that he wasn't around at all yesterday. We could have skipped killing Primate.

With this knowledge, we know that Skruffs was not the one that killed Thesp. Theo was ALSO not the one that killed Thesp. I'm lead to believe one of them is lying, and I would point a finger at Theo first.

As I said, I got this information today, not when I replaced. It furthers my belief that Theo is scum, and I still believe that Dripping Goofball is scum with him. I'm on the fence about Pooky.

[Nai]

I'm on the fence about Skruffs as well.

Ick. I read too many posts too fast, and forgot who targetted who. I was sure someone was claiming responsibility for Thesp. Wasn't there a thought on a cross-target kill that mixed up DG and Theo after this exchange?

You're naive if you think anyone other than a vig is going to take away a life, and if we had a vig, it would have happened

last

night.

Thing is you should have lost a life, infact I'm not sure why you didn't.

interesting, why do you say this? When should he have lost a life?

Why because I targeted him last night to test his claim therefore he should have lost a life last night, unless he was protected or roles were somehow swapped by a bus driver kinda character or he's lieing out of his teeth and has actually lost a life.

I'd be willing to test Skruffs right now.

[Nai]

EBWODP: Remember, my drawbacks make me severely limited in my abilities, and one of them can completely screw me.

[Nai]

Yes. It is possible. But, again, the restrictions are VERY difficult to get past. A single thing happening in a day ruins one, and something happening at night ruins the other.

[Nai]

No, I meant that the restriction for one can happen during the day and stop me from being able to do it at night. The other can happen at night and will nix my action, as if I was roleblocked.

[Nai]

Then that explains it. Sorry, mod hadn't given me the info.

[Nai]

Yes, it absolutely reeks of scum waiting to see which way the wind would turn before making his move. If he actually did make such an investigation why didn't he vote me on his first post?

Let's think about this. The day started on 9:14 am on June 22nd. His post was at 6:22 am on June 23rd. The 22nd was a friday. The 23rd was a saturday. I think this pretty much shows that you're full of it.

As for why he didn't vote, I have no idea.

YOU ARE THE ONE WHO ASKED ME HOW I KNEW. I !@@#$ING ANSWERED YOU QUESTION. DONT TELL ME TO STOP USING SOMETHING WHEN THE ONLY REASON I DID WAS BECAUSE YOU !@#$ING ASKED ME HOW I KNEW.

You knowing you are protown has NOTHING to do with you knowing Glork is lying, you knowing about this whole plan, etc. etc. What I'm beginning to suspect is the plan you outlined is YOUR plan, and you're letting it out just so you can catch the town off guard.

Except the Solution would also directly indicate that this game is something that is imbalanced against the scum completely and which never would've passed a review which then indicates that it couldn't possibly be the setup we are playing so that's a contradiction.

Stop bringing up game balance.

Glork being scum has NOTHING to do with game balance. Somehow, I think you're a scum replacer. That deals with balance just fine, and also would fit how I see you playing right now.

Wow, you honestly don't get basic strategy 101? MIZTEF KNEW "BUDDY" WAS IN THE GAME, MIZTEF KNEW BUDDY ISN"T A CARTOON CAT BUT A REAL DOG. THUS MIZTEF KNOWS BUDDY=/=SCUM AND ALL MIZTEF HAS TO DO TO "MASON" BUDDY IS TO SAY "HEY I KNOW BUDDY IS IN THE GAME AND PROTOWN CAN SOMEONE CLAIM HIM PLEASE, if scum claim buddy they get counterclaimed and lynched so they get buddy in the masonry"

Oh, c'mon. This is a game between cats. Someone says they know there's a dog in this game and no one will believe them. Or they'd believe they are independant. Stop making stuff up.

And how, exactly, would Miztef 'know' that Buddy is innocent? We're talking about real cats. Why would ANYONE think a dog is on the same side as a cat?

With 7 out of 13 "players" confirming each other. It would be absolutely clockwork to simply lynch everyone who isnt a mason while a cop scans everybody else.

You keep on missing what we're saying. Who in their right mind would believe seven people coming out and claiming mason? The only way to prove a mason group is to lynch one and see if he's scum. If he isn't, the group is real. The town would be lynching masons to check. That's 3 lynches, which means scum get 3 free kills. Think about it, and stop flapping your lips.

I have read the day. I have put a massive amount of thought into this game, probably more than anyone else, if you don't understand something I've said, trying thinking about it a little more.

For your massive amount of thought, you come up with a lot of random stuff. Solidify your argument first. If you had a solid argument, it wouldn't be this easy to find so much wrong with it.

Yes Primate doesn't know if Massive is scum or not according to his role, but given that there are cats who have inherited large fortunes and a cartoon cat isn't "rich" because it isn''t "real" and thus can't have "real" money

Okay, you are reading WAY too much into this. IF they weren't real, they wouldn't be able to kill us at night. And if that was true, they wouldn't be able to be a true scum. But they can, they are, and in this game, anything is possible. Stop using real world logic to apply to claims.

He can ID massive simply by openly claiming in the thread and confirm at night, scum can't fake it because they'd totally screw up in the night exchange.

Ooh, and guess what? Scum could claim the same thing. Massive gets killed, the scum is 'confirmed'. Alternatively, the scum gets killed, then so does Massive by association. I doubt the latter would be in the best interests of the scum early on, but it's easy to do. Would you stop this 'out of your ass' stuff now?

No I wouldnt but I sure would get the cop to investigate them one by one while sweeping the rest of the town with lynches. and that sir is GG scum.

Tell me how you would defend against such a massclaim followed up by a lynching the minority along with a one by one investigation of the masons which will clear them in 3 days in worst case scenario and 2 days if the cop had investigated any one of the 7 in the first day 0

Watch this, Pooky:

Day 1: 13 alive. 7 claimed masons. Town lynches one. Scum kills one.
Day 2. 11 alive. 1 confirmed mason. 5 claimed masons. Town lynches one. Scum kills one.
Day 3. 9 alive. 2 confirmed masons. 3 claimed masons. Town lynches one. Scum kills one.
Day 4. 7 alive. 3 confirmed masons. Lynch or lose.

Now, keep in mind, we have the final day with me still alive. I'm not a mason. Scum quick-lynch me and then win.

Yes, I damn well believe that this set-up is balanced just based on that. It takes 3 days to confirm all masons. This is also not counting vigs that go trigger happy (in which day 4 will lose for the town), since we have two vigs at least. This also doesn't take into account a cop, but that doesn't help much. We're not accounting for DG's role possibly giving good gifts to scum. We're not counting a possible redirector stopping the cop. This also doesn't take into account a lynch wasted on Primate, in which the scum get a free kill.

In other words, there's so much shit in this game that the town gets confused and starts fighting amongst itself. Letting the scum move in, keep the confusion going, fingering innocent townies, and ripping the town to pieces.

Sound familiar Pooky?

[Nai]

Right now, I'm favoring the thought of a Pooky/Theo/DG scum group. I think Pooky's role is the most dangerous of the three.

[Nai]

Stop bringing up game balance.

Glork being scum

has NOTHING to do with game balance.

Ziiinng! Bingo! Bullseye!



Say, Nai, don't you feel better now that you got if off your chest???

confirm vote: Glork

Major FOS anyone not voting Glork after his scumbuddy gave the game away.

Wow, way to take something out of context. I was speaking hypothetically, and you know it. Would it have helped if I had prefaced that with "The possibility of Glork being scum", or do I need to be even more blatant than that?

As a person that has already been caught in a direct lie about their role, you really shouldn't be saying much, DG.

[Nai]

Zsorry kiddo, but that was a perfect freudian slip. And I didn't lie about my role, I remembered wrong.

You wrote too fast. Your subconscious took over. That's why you wrote "Glork being scum" - because you know he's scum, and you let it slip. There's no wriggling out of THAT one.

Wink Thanks for making it so easy.

"Zsorry kiddo", but you're just twisting words to your own end, scum. You're going to hang. And why would you not check your PM and try to remember instead? And then only tell us the change AFTER its asked again? And NOT tell us that "Sorry, I was wrong its..." You didn't recognize you screwed up, and you got caught.

My abilities are proven, and they are obviously pro-town.

Actually, your abilities aren't proven at all. As of now, we have only confirmed you giving a present to ONE person, and they won't reveal the gift. Carbon Copy is the person I refer to.

Another lie. "Die, scum, die."

Confirming Masons by "lynching" them however is quite idiotic and kinda voids this slam dunk win for the town i'll agree with you. Note that I'm using the worst case scenario imaginable(that the cop who investigates on n0 not only misses one of the 7 masons but also happens to investigate the same group as the one the scum kill)

For one, I'm not sure why you'd think Town would avoid lynching a claimed mason. I'm also unsure why you think Scum would lynch the masons.

It's scum's job to force the town into bad positions. IF they hear 7 claimed masons, they'll assume that the other three people have the power roles. Masons usually don't have roles in addition to their masonhood. So the scum would kill one o the three non-masons, thus killing the cop with a 1/3 chance. And, likely, the town will take care of that for them if they miss. The town still loses.

DGB isn't exactly the most careful of players. I can see her contradicting herself as town just as likely as if she was scum, I'm confident that she's town in this game because she's defending me after I'm coming under heavy attack from you and because I bloody know I am a protown role.

"I know that DGB is town because she's defending me"? That has got to be the most full of crap-logic I have ever heard.

Z'And what dou think about Nai outing Glorkscum with a Freudian slip?

I want to know NOW!!!

(Just imitating Glork here for comedic effect)

It's frankly amazing how you try to avoid addressing YOUR slip, and spend so much energy trying to make a slip-up out of what I said.

Nai's could be... EEK! the cat, who was always getting killed (which would explain the half-needed to lynch) Mistef and Theo's roles are very similar in flavor, both of them about real cats on the run from the law or whatnot.

I already did a full claim, minus my drawbacks.

I'm Lewis, the Prosecuted Cat. I have both vig and role-cop abilities, but both have heavy drawbacks.

did questioning PRimate Not activate your restriction, then? Or wait, you can't answer that, so answer this question instead, which has nothing to do with the previous one. Are you wearing a hat? That question has nothing to do with the game, promise.
That might be a good thing, right?

My restriction has nothing to do with my posts. Again, I'm not saying what it is. However, questioning Primate has nothing to do with it.

Also, Why do you want to 'test' me? I made myself vulnerable by suggesting i *could* have been the one to vig Phoebus. Theo tried to kill Primate, UT vigged Thesp (no idea why) and I targetted Phoebus, who also died. I may have killed him, or mafia or Timmy's vig may have targetted him. I've never claimed to be able to survive being lynched, vigged, or nightkilled, all I've claimed is to have sent out three actions with no idea of what they did.

Right now, you're claiming a role, but the very being of that role means there's no way to actually confirm you with that role. So there needs to be a way to test you.

[Nai]

Pooky, you're missing the point here.

I can't show you the games because I don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of games. However... You can only choose one of the following two. One HAS to happen, an they're contradictory.

A.) You lynch one claimed mason to learn the alignment of both.

B.) You don't lynch claimed masons.

A means that scum can't fake-claim mason, B means they can. If a scum knows you won't lynch the mason for sake of not lynching a confirmable townie, then they can safely claim Mason and know you'll never touch them. By the time endgame comes, the scum will have already won.

Now, let's stop talking about masons because there is only 1 mason group in this game.

[Nai]

you don't lynch claimed masons to learn the alignment of both BECAUSE SCUM DONT STICK THEIR HEADS OUT AND CLAIM TO BE MASONS.

Lowell/Mikanoff acted scummy as hell day one, came under fire, claimed masons and pressure instantly vanished and niether of them were lynched.

This is EXACTLY why it can work. Players like you think that a mafioso would never claim a mason and, therefore, will never catch scum when they claim mason because they 'don't stick their heads out and claim to be masons'. Which is stupid.

And, now, I'm done with this argument. This is an argument for playstyle and game-making, and we need neither. As it was said, there's no mason claims here.

If he has a bus-driver ability, the play is obviously for him to switch Theo with someone random and to target all vigs at Nai. That pretty much solves our problems, and there aren't many ways it could be disrupted.

Why, exactly, should we be targetting me, now? Where did this come up? Why do you want to target a guy that's not only a role-cop but a vig?

I'm really confused how Nai suggests we test me. I am more than wiling to target anyone anyone wants, but it's as likely to be a doctor, vig, roleblock, grant ability, turn them purple, give them extra lives, neuter them, I don't know. I have no idea what to expect. So. Sorry. If you think the only way to test me is to have my lynched, when we are at LyLo, that's... also odd. I have an inspection on me.

I don't know how we can test you. The problem is, though, by claiming what you have, there's no way to prove you are town. I don't like that.

Also you are putting two LIVES on the line in terms of game lives.

Numbers-wise, unless the scum have 4 people in this game, losing one half of a role like Zindaras has is, actually, no big deal. That'd put us down to normal mafia numbers, which is fine, because then we're at 9/3 with a confirmed townie.

Which makes me wonder... Do the mafia have 4 members?

Apparently teh cloned cat was nothing like the original.

Good point. However, how does this affect the game? Do you think that Carbon Copy is mafia, or something?

From a game-making perspective, you could feasibly make a Mafia/Townie role, with two lives, and just forbid them from revealing their fellow players. Then just hope the player follows the rules.

[Nai]

Again, I'm not having this conversation anymore. It has nothing to do with this game.

What I find interesting about Pooky's posts is that he's trying to prove his point by insult, debasing you first. Then he puts burden of proof on YOU, without backing himself up at all. When confronted with alternatives, or when his own arguments are thrown in his face, he slides to the side and refuses to talk about them, instead attacking elsewhere. He's also spent a lot of time talking about this argument, something completely irrelevant to the game, without actually caring about the game itself.

I find the latter bit scummy. He's made up roles, form-fitting claims to suit himself, then using those form-fitted claims as evidence for a contrived 'plan' for the scum to follow. He wants us to believe, with no proof at all, that he is town, because that's the only way his argument works. Any doubt at all and this 'scum plan' falls down around his ears. He's also throwing the entire game in our faces, pointing out things that no one else has had a problem with and making it seem as if there's an actual problem involved.

[Nai]

Hrm. I'm not entirely sure. Both are equally scummy to me right now. Pooky is potentially a big threat with his replacement. DGB could give some goodies away to her team mates, if she's not banned from that.

[Nai]

Nai, in your post above you are doing exactly what you complain Pooky is doing, because YOU are appealing to emotion, and YOU are debasing Pooky - when you ought to know for a fact that Pooky's argument about how foolish it would be for scum to claim masons early in the game is taken straight from the Mafia Player Bible.

How could anyone not agree with that? It's been said on this site a million times, and it's common wisdom. Yes, I support Pooky. He's totally right.

Think about it.

I mean - two claimed cop abilities, plus one-shot cop investigations, plus role-pairs that can sorta confirm each other...

Forgive me for thinking some of the cop claims are phony.

The funny thing about the cop claims being piled on, is that none of them are ringing alarm bells as possible counterclaims.

No, I'm not appealing to emotion. And appeal to emotion is "HOW CAN YOU NOT SEE THIS?!" What I'm doing is purely logical, stating the problems with my opponent, showing the fallacies he's making. Showing he's scummy. If that's an appeal to emotion, then neither Pooky nor I know how to play this game.

I can easily not agree with that. I don't give a damn what the 'mafia bible' says. If something is completely unexpected, then the scum can use it.

Now I'm officially done with the argument, it has nothing to do with this game. I find it amusing that neither Glork nor I have been counter-claimed, yet somehow people still think we're lying. I can't wait to see DGB/Pooky defend themselves after their partner is proven scum.

Z'I repeat.

***ONE full-time cop (Glork)
***ONE one-shot cop investigation gift (Miztef)
***ONE one-shot cop investigation (Nai)
***SEVERAL role-pairs that can sorta confirm each other...

Forgive me for thinking some of the cop claims are phony.

By the third night, that's a potential of 5 investigations!!! And a whole buncha quasi-masons!

Someone is making up some roles, and I am sorry, the most suspect role claim of all is Glork's Flying Pumpkin Shooting Lasers and Sending Messages at Night with Truth Serum and Therefore a Cop too.

Okay, let's see. There's my role, that has its drawback. I keep on saying 'drawback, drawback, drawback', showing that I don't get my investigation free, but people seem to think my 'role cop' role is perfect. I also never said it was one-shot, so you're making stuff up again.

Let's not forget, it is as likely as not that YOU gave Miztef the investigation.

And STOP saying there are mason pairs! It's a LIE, and you should be lynched for it!

To choose to stick your head in the sand and attack me regardless of these facts would be nothing less than gross negiligence on your part.

I'll be happy to discuss this on a mafia theory thread outside of this game. You're spending time talking about something that doesn't apply to this game at all instead of talking about the game itself, which is amazing.

Zeriously, how many scum would you need to balance a game with this many investigations? I'd say at least 9 or maybe even 10. Enough scum to be at LYLO on Day 1, minimum.

Yet there is no evidence of a serial killer (if you believe theo's claim; he might in fact be the SK, if there is one) but the SK works against the town and the mafia. And then you'd hope for balance's sake that he's investigation immune. No evidence of a cult, either, but it cannot be ruled out.

Occam's rasor - the simples explanation - is that Glork's claim is bogus, as is Miztef's. I have trouble believing that Nai might be scum, because such an overpowered town can't be matched against a scum that can be lynched with 3 votes. So I would believe Nai's one-shot investigation, but I have no faith in the other Glork of Miztef.

Anyone notice how DGB doesn't fail to agree with Pooky on every subject?

WHO brought up a serial killer? I didn't see that in any post. WHO brought up a cult?

That is NOT how Occam's razor works. Occam's Razor says the SIMPLEST explanation is the correct one. Saying two roles are completely made up, one of which being made up from day one, with evidence every dayscene that at least part of one role is correct, with a second person making up a claim to back him up, is NOT the simplest explenation. The simplest explenation is that Pooky is avoiding the issues, and DGB is was caught in a lie. There's no 'conspiracy theory among two people'. Just that two scum were caught, one in a lie. That's simple. Your explenation isn't.

Z'has anyone given any thought to the possibility of there being a cult???

I may be crazy, but I was just thinking that maybe... maybe Glork's "message-sending" ability is cult-leader related. And the "truth-checking" has to do with the whether the player targetted by Glork is recruitable or not - in other words, whether that player is scum or town.

See. That would make more sense than Glork being a pro-Town cop with multiple abilities layered on. Maybe he's a cult recruiter. Does that make sense?

No, it doesn't. That'd mean there's at least, what, 4 cult members at this point? Half the game? And the other half is scum? That makes no sense whatsoever.

There's also Glork's statement about Thesp.

[Nai]

Zthat very interesting. I've been very careful in my wording, example, pairs that can SORTA confirm each other, and QUASI-masons. You are obvioulsy trying to misrepresent me, and twist my very clear words. Everyone can see that. Now, after lying about me, you call for MY LYNCH???

"Quasi" is an adjective. You're STILL calling them masons. But, in an effort to not be called out on it again, you're adding the adjective 'quasi' so you can step away from your bad position of thinking there are masons, yet still act as if you're clinging to the idea. It's a transitioning statement, used to jump from a sinking ship in order not to get lynched.

Zmaybe he refused to join your cult. I dunno. I am at a loss to explain your completely unbelievable claim, and your scheming behavior in this game, pushing to lynch two townies in a row, and now trying to add Pooky to your feline taxidermy collection.

I think it's more that you want to lynch Glork, knowing he's scum, and you're throwing everything but the kitchen sink at him and trying to see what sticks. Since all else has failed, why not a cult?

The claim is believable. Especially if you consider that I play a Vig/Role Cop. However, my role is MUCH more powerful, so I get drawbacks. His is just a message sender and a cop.

As for the people lynched, let's examine that claim. We lynched one part of a 2-part role. That means half of it is still alive. That also reduced us to normal mafia numbers. The other guy we supposedly 'lynched' is also still alive. Which means we're STILL at normal mafia numbers. In essence, we basically no-lynched twice, but we got twice the information people normally do in this situation.

Right now, we have the following situation: Glork has a guilty investigation on Pooky. Miztef has an 'innocent' investigation on Glork. So far so good. On my end, I've shown that a player has lied several times about their role. The flavor isn't famous, the role doesn't fit the claimed flavor, and they've lied about what the drawback is, and can't prove any of the things they've claimed. Their gift only went to one claimed person, and we can't figure out what that gift is.

So we basically have one mafia confirmed by cop, and another person who is scummy as hell. Right now, it's weighing who is more dangerous to the town. We can always go back and kill pooky. We can always go back and kill DGB. The question is, who is more dangerous tonight.

Just keep digging the hole deeper. You'll reach China soon.

[Nai]

EBWODP: First of all, it doesn't apply because, as said, we don't have any mason pairs. The only one close is Zindaras and Carbon Copy, but that's a single player. And, as has been said by others who have seen the role in action, it's usually a MAFIA role, not a town role. I've never seen it in play, but they gave several examples.

[Nai]

I find it amusing that you're saying "Do you think I'm a replacement" when you already claimed as much. It's amusing to me that you're actually helping to cast doubt on your own role.

Funnily enough, if you steal my role, you get my restrictions. And if you do so, you'll NEVER be able to use any of it. And then we get to quicklynch YOU tomorrow (you'll have my same voting problem), and townies win.

Yes, your plan is incredible.

[Nai]

Dripping, do you have any idea how the English language works at all? Do you know what the term 'hypothetical' means?

In the second one, I'm comparing my role to his. My role is able to kill AND learn what your role is. His just gets your alignment and he can check to see what your opinion on cookies are. Yes, I consider my role to be more powerful than his.

Get a grip on English language, then we'll start talking, hmm?

[Nai]

EBWODP: Damnit, Pooky, stop posting just before I post.

You're doing another logical fallacy. You just keep jumping them from one to another. This one's known as the 'false dichotomy', which means you show the existance of two choices and try to make the town think those are the only two choices, when there's really plenty out there.

It's not only "he thinks you're a replacement scumbag" or "he thinks your a scumbag without replacement." You could be an independent. There's room for another one in here. You could be an SK. You could be any number of things. I'm damn sure you aren't town, though.

What you're doing is the same thing as DGB is doing to me. You're twisting words to your own means and hoping you can convince the town you're still town. Unfortunately, it seems that out of 9 of us, three of us think you are scum, two others ARE scum, and the other three are lurking.

[Nai]

Damnit! Not again.

Look, Glork's belief's don't require him to lynch me. Let me run through this for you, scum.

We lynch you. If you come up scum, I get to vig DGB, and we're hunky dory. You come up town, I get to vig Glork, we're hunky dory. In other words, as long as I'm still alive,the town has a chance.

If I'm lynched, like you want me to be, scum wins. You just outlined the entire plan not a few posts ago.

Why on earth would Glork lynch me?

Please explain what is hypothetical in "Glork being scum has NOTHING to do with game balance."

Please explain how the "being" is hypothetical.

Please explain that is hypothetical in "you want to lynch Glork, knowing he's scum."

Please explain how the "knowing" is hypothetical.

If you try, you're going to trip over your own showlaces.

... Are you really that ignorant?

It's the hypothetical statement of YOUR plan. In your assumed role as a townie, you "Know Glork is scum, so you want to lynch him." I suppose reversing it makes it easier to understand, yes? However, you aren't a townie, you ARE scum, you're trying to point Glork to be scum, you're failing, so now you're trying to twist my words to make me look like scum. Die, scum.

[Nai]

By the way, for those of you just tuning in, Pooky, a player with a guilty result on his head by way of our cop Glork, has challenged Glork into killing me, a townie, to prove Glork is town.

[Nai]

Oh, completely forgot about where my vote was. I'm fine with a Pooky lynch for the day.

Unvote, Vote: Pooky

[Nai]

Or, it may just simply be that you, DrippingGoofBall, are purposefully twisting my words for your own means, that you are scum, and both glork and me are town. That IS the other possibility.

[Nai]

Wait, are you claiming a replacer that JUST gets the abilities, and no restrictions? Yeah, scum. That absolutely amazes me.

[Nai]

EBWODP: You already said that town would be able to lynch you tomorrow if you were scum. Well, if you kill two town, leaving seven alive tomorrow with three scum, that'd mean that all four town would have to quickly lynch you. Or, the truth if you're a real replacer, is that you'd have all my restrictions, meaning you'd be useless tonight, and quicklynched tomorrow.

Yes, you heard me right. If you replace me, if I die, you won't be able to use ANY of my abilities tonight.

[Nai]

No, probably not. However, you WOULD be in trouble with the other cats if you started throwing them against the wall to get information, or if you started running cats out of town. So, flavorfully, you WOULD get my restrictions.

[Nai]

No, I'm proving that you'd get my restrictions, BECAUSE of the flavor of my role. But, because you get my restrictions, you can't use my role's abilities.

My role is a badass among cats. I'm the batman of cats, feared for what I've done previously, which is why my role works. If I wasn't feared, I couldn't do what I do. As such, if you're not feared, you can't do my role's abilities. My restrictions are there, flavorfully, BECAUSE of the fear.

I'm being perfectly consistent. You're just throwing things in bad light again.

I also tell you because, unless your scum-buddy jumps on the wagon to kill me, there's no way you're getting my role, anyways.

[Nai]

It's amazing how consistent DGB and Pooky are being. Both know that they are screwed. So what do they do? First, they twist words, omitting context, quoting only sections of the actual post, etc. THEN, they use those twisted words to try to throw you in a bad light. They use this scheme to avoid answering questions posed to them, to avoid having to explain their own inconsistencies and lies. Then, when you call them on it, they get extremely defensive and say that the only reason you'd call them on it is if you were scum.

[Nai]

Oh, you didn't change any of my words. But you omitted the context. That's all it needs.

Pooky, I answered you in my post on the previous post. Read posts. It's good for you.

Questions not answered are mostly on DGB's side. You, Pooky, refuse to talk about the game itself, instead wanting to wax philosophic about set-ups and potential mass claims that have nothing to do with the game at hand.

[Nai]

Zpooky is showing his good faith by offering to take over a vulnerable vote to prove Nai's guilt, his towniness, and Glork's fake result.

You mean he's convincing the town to kill a townie.

[Nai]

There's a reason they don't vote for me. I'm town. My 'Freudian slip' is a contrived effort on your part to weasel out of your own problems.

[Nai]

Agreed, I will be vulnerable, but I'm on a lot, so we'll have time.

[Nai]

"Hai gaiz i twist wordz since iv bin caut in a lie i cant explain! dun vote me!"

[Nai]

DGB, you're REALLY stretching it. How, exactly, would I come up scum?

[Nai]

Yes, it fits in with the wild theorization. That's the whole point o the wild theorization.

What is with you and Freudian slips? They don't actually work, ESPECIALLY on the internet, where typing is the way to go. You could call a typo (For instance, can/can't) a Freudian slip if you wanted.

In this case, you are taking a hypothetical (did you actually NOTICE the sentence?) and trying to twist it into something you aren't. And you've taken this one supposedly-Freudian Slip and say that's somehow definitive evidence that I'm scum? Do you listen to yourself?

[Nai]

I have to take issue with this. Supposing, hypothetically, what I've said are Freudian Slips: In ALL cases, EVERYWHERE, whenever someone makes a Freudian Slip, they are scum?

[Nai]

I have to take issue with this. Supposing, hypothetically, what I've said are Freudian Slips: In ALL cases, EVERYWHERE, whenever someone makes a Freudian Slip, they are scum?

[Nai]

Freudian Slips are SUBJECTIVE errors. They are not objective evidence at all. You have to INTERPRET a Freudian Slip in order to understand what it, supposedly, means. That mean's it is subjective evidence, subjective to the person that perceives it. Not objective at all.

If I get lynched, please lynch DGB tomorrow. This scum really hasn't played well, and I laugh at it.

[Nai]

EBWODP:

3 a : expressing or dealing with facts or conditions as perceived without distortion by personal feelings, prejudices, or interpretations <objective art> <an objective history of the war> <an objective judgment>

There is NO way you can call a Freudian slip objective evidence. Since not everyone agrees with you, it MUST be subjective.

4 a (1) : peculiar to a particular individual : PERSONAL <subjective judgments>

[Nai]

Freudian Slips ARE NOT objective. If even ONE person disagrees with you (and Primate just did), then they're not objective by the definition of the word. And only OBJECTIVE evidence can be truly damning. Subjective evidence is only damning when combined with MORE subjective evidence.

[Nai]

I'm fairly sure it's more the fact that they want to use me tomorrow. There may be factors on their side that give them the edge tonight. However, a lynch for me today does not help the town. You'd lose a townie, and tomorrow would be a true lynch or lose, IF they don't get an extra kill tonight by Vig or otherwise. If they do, it's game over tomorrow.

[Nai]

Something you'll notice: "Glork and Nai are both on my scummy player list. But we should vote Nai." Why on earth would you want to vote me? If Glork is fakeclaiming cop, something that DGB is assuming, then wouldn't you want to lynch him?

The reason they want to lynch me right now is they can't get enough votes on Glork. Glork takes, what, 5 votes to kill? They'd have to convince TWO other townies, at least, to vote for him. However, with me, they can let either TWO of their scum vote for me and a townie lynch me, or they can have TWO of their scum vote for me early on then the last come in, all reluctant-like, and play town putting the final hammer.

It's the easiest path to vote for me, that way scum can knock off a townie and not have to bother convincing more townies.

[Nai]

You know, the more and more you insult the intelligence of the town and, with that, me, the less and less am I convinced by you.

Funnily enough, I believe he's town.

So, that means, I believe his investigation.

Because I believe he's town, and I believe his investigation, I believe he got a guilty investigation against you.

Therefore, I believe you are scum.

Your same logic, used from the side of someone disbelieving you. Stop trying to twist the situation using logic that just as easily works the other way around.

And ESPECIALLY don't do the "Heads I win, tails you lose" statement, like you just did.

If he's scum, his buddies won't want to spare him, but if he's town, the scum won't want to lynch him, because he'll be too useful to the scum later for an easy quicklynch. I may be wrong, but it looks to me like the only people that would vote against Nai at this stage of the game are either (1) really stupid scum that deserve to lose or (2) townies convinced of Nai's guilt. That's another reason to trust Pooky, when you get right down to it. He's too clever a strategist.

Hmm... So, wait. Since I'm sitting at 2 of 3 votes, and that hasn't moved... I guess that means one of two things happened. Either I'm town, and the scum don't want to lynch me and reveal themselves... Or... Well, wait. You just said my buddies wouldn't spare me if I was scum, because that would be revealing themselves, right? So doesn't that mean I HAVE to be town, since I haven't been lynched yet? This is YOUR own argument, now.

As for Pooky, I think he's scum that's been put in a bad replacement situation.

In addition, using POOKY'S own logic... The town is built WAY too powerfully. As such, do you REALLY think that one of the mafia would be given a restriction that they have only half the votes to be killed? I can see that being given to a townie in this game. But a SCUM?

Remember, the MOD has proven that I only have 3 votes to be killed. Look at the recent vote count.

Yeah, I think, all in all, DGB needs to be lynched more than Pooky, just for not reading her own posts.

[Nai]

One of the reasons I'm not answering you, Pooky, is your actual comments get lost in the angry, capitalized letters. I tend to skip over them because they usually are rants about how stupid the town is, since you're about to get lynched, and insults thrown every which way.

Reasons I think that Glork is town? One, nobody has counterclaimed cop. I highly doubt the town would have NO cop in a game like this. He's a cop with a drawback; he has to send a message and ask a question, thus drawing attention to himself. The ONLY way he can really prove he's cop (since, as DGB has proved, people would call his role the 'Pumpkin with lasers' which, funnily enough, was in the last game I played) is by breadcrumbing. His breadcrumbing did NOT, by the way, say who he was targetting, as far as I can remember. It was breadcrumbing that the ability was investigative, NOT who was being targetted.

In addition, Glork has backed every single one of his movements in this game with facts, with good reasons for doing what he did. I read, saw the trains of thought, and largely agreed with him on most of his actions.

YOU, on the other hand, have largely been telling the town how stupid it is for believing the consistent and logical explanations of Glork rather than your insults, yellow, and general diatribes. You have consistently yelled at the town for not believing you, when your explanations of the actions of the game largely consist on half-baked theories that only make sense if we believe a number of things, including your innocence, Glork's guilt, Miztef's guilt, among others. It seems much more likely that YOU are scum who was placed in a bad position at the start of this day, was found to be scum by a cop, and are trying EVERYTHING you can do to not get lynched.

In due fact, I think that the only reason you have NOT been lynched is that the two people who could do the hammer, Carbon Copy and Primate, have largely been missing the past week and haven't been around to actually do anything.

There. I've answered your questions.

[Nai]

Even though I quoted the breadcrumb for you in this post? Why bother remembering if it's been quoted for you on this page by me?

So let me get this straight, when I make posts that start with logic then descend into angry rants, you decided to skip the rational logic, read just the angry rant part and then rant back at me?

my how productive.

Thank you for misrepresenting me. I read your actual posts. But when you start ranting angrily, I decide it's probably not worth my time to read through the insults and find your point. I'd rather wait until you rephrase, calmly.

And, again, that doesn't say his target. That just says it looks like an investigation, while breadcrumbing for a later role-claim. He had ALREADY targetted Thesp at that point. He wasn't talking about a future target.

counterclaimed cop? Miztef's claimed an investigative ability(one shot) you've had an investigative/vig like ability according to you, why would the town necesarily have a standard cop with message sending on top of that?

You must have this problem with reading, or perhaps I just missed something. Unless the latter is true, I was so sure Miztef's one-shot was a GIFT from someone else, while my own ability has a very tough drawback. Something I've said several times.

Yet Miztef's claimed a 1 shot investigation ability

and according to you, you also have an investigative ability.

You like repeating yourself in consecutive posts, don't you? As I said: Miztef's was a gift he didn't start with (unless I missed something), and mine has a hefty drawback.

Also consider the fact that in the game that I did cite, Glork did not push for the lynch of the 2 masons who claimed day one after coming under suspicion, he was protown in that game. In this game, he does push for Zindaras's lynch. I raised this issue and he has never actually logically addressed the strategic difference in the two situations.

I would have pushed the Zindaras lynch as well, but that's just me.

He actually HAS addressed the question, several times. You just keep on brushing off his answer.

"I believe it is a viable scum strategy to fakeclaim Masons on Day 1"

I've said it already, in other words, so I'll say it again: I think it's a good strategy for scum to fakeclaim masons, since no one would ever believe scum would do it.

"I believe it is valid protown strategy to push for the lynch of 2 "lives" who have been tied together in a way such that the innocence of one implies with absolute certainty the innocence of the other and that such a strategy is far superior than simply investigating them at night"

I believe it's a valid protown strategy to lynch one half of a dual-lived role, which would reduce us to normal mafia numbers, and use the investigation on someone else.

"I also think it is a completely valid strategy if you are a cop that sends messages with public reveal to hint at the investigative nature of your messages on day 1 in order to put at risk the life of yourself and your investigative target as such an action can help when you claim later even though it might jeopardize your immediate health and that of your investigated target"

I think it's a completely valid strategy if you are a cop with a very odd restriction to breadcrumb your ability so that you can prove it exists later on in the game.

Especially when you NEVER told anyone who you were investigating, only revealed the results at a later point when it would help the game.

[Nai]

By the way, since it's amusing:

Click here, DGB, and read the bottom of the first post. An actual role.

Fixed tags. ~bert

[Nai]

I beg you Nai, ** IF ** I am wrong about your Freudian slips, please don't dismiss all of Pooky's arguments like it's impossible for him to say anything right. Again, I might be misunderstanding you both, but I almost think that if Pooky would tell you that square-circles don't exist, you'd automatically argue that you see square-circles everyday. I hope I am wrong.

I'm glad to say that I DO disagree with you here. I'm just saying that, if scum knows that you'd NEVER expect them to do something, and that you'd deny them doing it, they'll do it JUST to help them win.

The day 1 fakeclaim, mind, might not help very much. But if the town is already doing a mass-claim, it'll take them a while to be able to figure out that the scum lied. With that, the scum might be able to do REALLY well misdirecting the town. If you go what Pooky said, the town wouldn't want to lynch them to confirm. So the cop would want to check them. If the cop had already claimed, they could just kill the cop and that would be that. I don't think scum should claim on day 1 unless it's a mass claim or some such.

However, later in the game, day 2 or 3, when people notice a link between two scum, the scum can easily just claim mason and get away with it. At that point, they can probably pull off the win with the claim, and the town would lose just because they have to spend time checking it that night. That's why lynching one claimed mason is helpful.

But again, Zindaras/Carbon Copy is NOT a mason. And its already been said, and backed up with linked games, that the role is more a scum one than a townie one. With that kind of history, it's not a big leap to have them just lynch straight away. If you KNOW a certain claim is scum related, why do you make such a big deal about lynching and getting it wrong? If you're playing Star Wars Mafia and someone claims Darth Vader, who you KNOW is a bad guy, why not just lynch him? And, if he turned out town in the end, would you seriously berate the guy that pushed for the lynch? It looks to be mafia, from past experience, so why is it such a big deal that they think it's mafia?

[Nai]

Yes, you never did tell explicitly, but the implications of your hint would be such that the mafia would be able to pick up on it and kill you for it. Why stick your neck out like that when it's clear that your loss would devastate the town? Should a cop be more concerned about his survival so that he does find more useful information or about whether the town believes him or not? How does 1 breadcrumb like that contribute in any meaningful way towards clearing such a cop? A scumbag who was planning to fakeclaim with his message sending role could just as easily have breadcrumbed the same clue! Heck if you are going to be breadcrumbing cop, why not encode it into a message that the scum couldn't break instead of putting it into the open like that and endangering your life and that of your target?

This is all I'm going to answer, because the rest is just more and more mafia theory that has no relevance to this game.

If you have a role that will sound like Flying Pumpkins, you NEED to have a way to prove it. If I have a role that allows me to not only vig, but Role Cop (like I do), I need a way to prove it. My way of proving it is my 3 vote-to-kill restriction. It's not balanced JUST to give me a horrible restriction, but it IS to give me something in return.

Glork has a cop ability, but that ability relies on him sending a message, asking the question, AND having the answers posted in thread. To any townie, i.e. you, that sounds very farfetched. The only way for him to NOT get lynched upon claiming it is to breadcrumb it.

You're also talking about his breadcrumb from the point of view of a person that already knows what he claimed. No one seemed to pick up on the breadcrumb that day, so obviously there was no issue.

Furthermore, if he makes a breadcrumb that's impossible to pick up for the mafia, that also means it's impossible for the town.

[Nai]

Christ! This has nothing to do with the game itself! It's a discussion for mafia theory, and has nothing to do with this game! You guys have been doing this this entire day, avoiding the actual game itself and discussing something that didn't actually happen! Whether or not scum will claim MASONS day 1 has nothing to do with a single player with two roles in a game claiming day 1, when that role is historically more associated with scum!

Glork has nothing to do with this. It has nothing to do with the game, and has been used as a way to avoid talking about the actual game. Pooky and DGB have brought it up repeatedly when they have no way to prove that they're town or Glork/Me are scum, using it as a way to stall for time before they rehash the same arguments again, hoping people have forgotten the last time.

[Nai]

And, as I said before, breadcrumbing is the only way that he can make his role seem at all real. If he doesn't breadcrumb, he has no credibility. Yes, scum can do it. But, as town, it's the only way he can show himself to be town. Otherwise, he's claiming flying pumpkin, and no one believes him. The only way to get people to believe his town, as scum or town, is to breadcrumb. And, currently, I believe him. That's the end point.

[Nai]

DGB, remind me, what happens when you miss a Z in a post?

[Nai]

Okay, I read halfway through the big block of text before, as usual, I found myself misrepresented. You weep when people don't take the game seriously? I weep when you guys continually misrepresent me and hope to get away with it.

I NEVER said that your talking about Glork in that other game had nothing to do with this one. I, each and every time, was talking about the

constant discussion on day 1 mason claims.

Let me repeat this so it is clear.

I feel that the constant discussion on the validity of day 1 fake mason claims has nothing to do with this game.

One more time.

It is in my opinion that there is no need for a discussion about day 1 fake mason claims and if they are a valid strategy.

I hope three times is enough.

Now, Pooky, you talk about people brushing off comments. What about the one I make?

Pooky, answer me this: If a role is known to be scum-related in many other games, is it not a valid play to assume it is a scum-related role in this game, and thus act accordingly?

To answer your question about GlorkCop breadcrumbing: Unfortunately, this is WIFOM argument. ScumGlork wants to breadcrumb in order to get people to believe his outlandish role. TownGlork

has

to breadcrumb in order to get the town to believe the outlandish role he's been stuck with.

As for your innocent breadcrumb, no one would pick up on that. And, if he went back and said "Look!", people would brush it off. A breadcrumb HAS to be noticeable, otherwise it means nothing. Unfortunately, it helps the scum AND the town to notice it. If it's far too hard to get, then it's not worth using. A breadcrumb is THERE to be noticed, not to be looked over. If it's looked over, pointing to it is as good as pointing to a random post and saying you put a key word in it.

Since the site won't let me post, another topic:

Pooky, answer me this. Does not a mason pair usually take up TWO slots in a 12 person game? Does it not, then, mean something different when the second life of Zindaras is an EXTRA character? That is, it pushes our player count to

13

, not

12

? Would this not, if we had 3 scum, mean that lynching to confirm does NOT hurt us?

[Nai]

I don't know what that's in reference to. And answer my questions.

[Nai]

You must not remember you r read, so I would go back and read again. He only claimed because he was CAUGHT. Zindaras and Carbon Copy were distancing themselves for a good amount of time before Glork linked them together. Zindaras was forced to claim, after basically saying there was no link between the two.

A breadcrumb can't be useful if there's no way someone could have picked it up. That's what I'm saying. If it's something like you say, first letter of three sentences in a single post, that's really no big deal. There's no way anyone would have noticed it, so it's no different then pointing at a random post and saying that something in it was a breadcrumb. But if you have something that COULD have been picked up, then people realize you WERE breadcrumbing.

Again, it's WIFOM (which I already said). It can be done equally by town with a bastard role and scum trying to fake a role. I'm more inclined to believe the former.

And, again, like I keep on saying, several players have already (go look for the links, I'm too lazy right now, I'm tired of having to rehash this argument repeatedly with no effect) given links to games where Zindaras' role was given to a scum player, so they controlled TWO scum. Chance was against him being town. If the role has a history of being scum, why waste a cop investigation when A.) The player was already trying to distance the two roles and got caught, B.) (iirc) The player lied and was caught in it, C.) The role is usually a scum role and, D.) Killing one COULD potentially 'net you scum on day 1, which would give 2 scum on day 2.

It's a calculated risk with odds on your side. If you're saying we shouldn't take those risks, you are playing the wrong game.

[Nai]

Yeah, can you hurry, please? This game is going VERY slowly, and it shouldn't be.

[Nai]

DGB is actually saying that the game set-up makes no sense whatsoever, and that it means insta-win for the town.

However, as usual, she's not taking into account what actually happens. My investigation is heavily drawbacked. There's a high chance I'll not be able to use it again, depending on how intelligent the players are. Miztef's came from another player being killed, which is NOT a guaranteed happening. Miztef's was a one-shot. Glork's relies on asking the question and, as Skruff pointed out (that I didn't realize) them actually answering.

So we're talking roles that needn't actually ever work.

[Nai]

Possibly because he thinks you are scum. Isn't that what votes are for?

[Nai]

You were the one that asked.

Why does a question about how a role works, a valid question, mean that he thinks the role is invalid? It's a very good technical question.

You REALLY like trying to put words on other people's mouths, don't you? If only you were as good as keeping your foot out of your own.

[Nai]

Apologies about the bad timing of this, but I'm going to be gone the next three days. I don't know if I'll have comp access.

[Nai]

I'm here, just took three days off. Right now, I just want someone to put a vote on.

[Nai]

Aipom

I highly suggest that if you are town and are going to end up lynching me without actually reading what I've written that you consider not playing mafia games anymore because it's just such a disservice to everyone on this site who actually tries for you to screw around and not actually even bother to read the posts they make. I don't know why you aren't putting in the necesary effort right now but please, do us all a favor and come back when you have the time and motivation to put in an effort that is deserving of your name.

I love these posts from you. Instead of just admitting your arguments are bad, and that people just don't believe you, you insult the ability of other players. Other players think you are scum but, instead of deciding this is something wrong with your own play, you try to make it something wrong with our own. This is ad hominem at its finest.

And Nai, I really can't argue with you anymore because you just don't understand even the most basic elements of mafia strategy, the whole point of breadcrumbing is to minimize the chance of someone else picking up on it because odds are higher that scum will pick up on it since there are more scum than there are doctors who might pick up on it and protect you. The idea is to not let them find out while having something to point to later, and I throughly disagree with you that a cop NEEDS to breadcrumb his role like that in order to be believed.

This is more of the same. This time, however, you can't admit that my opinion on Mafia Strategy is different than yours, so you say I'm just wrong, trying to ruin any credibility I can have.

Furthermore, you

continue

to ignore what I have said several times, acting as if I've said that every cop needs to breadcrumb. I specifically said NOT every cop has to breadcrumb, but, in this case, Glork was forced to due to the wacky nature of his role. Do read my posts before you respond to them, since I do you the same service.

Not only does this breadcrumb effectively put "Glork=Cop who is investigating you" directly into the head of the investigatee, you are almost absolutely certain that this information is NOT going to the scum because IF THE PERSON WHO IS RECEIVING THIS INFORMATION IS SCUM YOU CAN JUST CLAIM COP AND GET THEM LYNCHED RIGHT AWAY(And you will be believed because it doesn't make sense for scum to fakeclaim cop with a guilty on DAY ONE) if the target is innocent, then you have an innocent person who can BACK UP YOUR CLAIM AND KNOWS EXACTLY WHAT IS GOING ON.

It's amazing that you continue to think up random things to disprove glork. What you just did was actually WIFOM.

Just as town can give their name and their role, scum with a messenger role could do the EXACT same thing for the EXACT same purpose. They could also, at the same time, say that it was someone else doing it to get someone else lynched, or to keep someone else (like a scum partner) safe. Stop your attempts to convince people Glork is scum by using WIFOM.

[Nai]

Gah, that first word has nothing to do with this game. It's a list for my Pokemon game. I keep on doing that...

[Nai]

You know, I was thinking over this situation, and the mafia kill the cop, regardless of which mafia is killed. The way I understand it, the mafia get the message before day ends, so they can respond. The mafioso spreads the info to his allies, and we lose a cop, before (most likely) he gets to tell the town his responses. Then we lose the cop and gain nothing. That's a stupid way to do it and you know it, Pooky.

I don't care about your opinion on my thoughts on mafia strategy. This isn't the place for that discussion. However, as for the breadcrumbing, I think it's a definite disadvantage to anyone that has the role. If you are forced to breadcrumb, you are also risking revealing yourself to scum, as you said. But he has to do it in order to have any semblance of credibility if he hasn't found scum yet.

[Nai]

not at the beginning of the game when he expects us to have a doctor, most minis have those.

Why does he need to do it to have a semblance of credibility? Are you saying all cops that don't breadcrumb have no credibility or specifically that all cops with messenger ability attached that don't breadcrumb have no credibility?

Lastly, why doesn't he just pretend to be a normal cop if it is such a disadvantage?

But how would the doctor know he's the cop? Unless he hits the doctor first. But he has about a 1/4 chance of hitting scum, then he's pretty much dead, period. Unless the doc gets really lucky.

And you still aren't reading my posts. It's already been said, several times, by your buddy DGB there, that his claim is like a flying pumpkin with lasers. It's not a very believable claim unless one of two things happens. He finds scum and reveals them, getting them lynched, thus getting the town to know he's town. Or he breadcrumbs so people know he's not just pulling it out of his ass so he can have time to find scum for the town.

As for that, that falls under "LynchAllLiars."

[Nai]

Isn't being able to communicate at night, and being able to know if your partner is town, considered an ability?

[Nai]

That was me, not Pooky. However, I also say I find it suspicious that he thinks he wouldn't get any restrictions, just the abilities.

[Nai]

So, in other words, you lied about your role?

[Nai]

... You've got to be kidding me. We have to lynch correctly today or we probably lose and you are saying you're hiding details of your role?

[Nai]

No, I'm not that dense. I've come to the conclusion there's no way you can be town. Town wouldn't withhold information at a time that is, more or less, lynch or lose. All the cards should be on the table, and you've been keeping some up your sleeve. That's not a townie action.

At end of day, one of two things happens:

A.) You're scum who's been adding things to his story in hopes of being able to convince town, and failed.

B.) You're a sucky town that has no idea how important information is to town, and has no idea how insult the rest of the town screws up his credibility.

[Nai]

The town has EVERYTHING to gain if they know what happens. If someone isn't sure you are scum, it changes their thoughts of lynching you if you inherit disadvantages. That makes your role more believable. It also changes what the plan is for tomorrow. IF we dont lynch you and you replace me, we NEED to know if we're in danger of quick lynch or not. If we know the scum is going to try to quick-lynch you regardless, it'd be good for the town to know if we need to attempt something on our own.

A LOT of information and strategy changes with this information, and I can't believe you didn't reveal it before. The only reason I can see you not giving up this information at this point is because you are scum. You've had plenty of time to give it to us, so you must have JUST made it up to make yourself more plausable.

[Nai]

Oh, I admit, there was some doubt in my mind that you were the correct lynch. Thanks to you, that doubt is assuaged. Thanks.

[Nai]

... Wow. You're really missing the point. As usual.

[Nai]

Right now is probably time for anyone to come out with anything they can. Which should include Carbon Copy's ability, I think. We need to know what we have.

[Nai]

I'm already looking straight at DGB right now. I also find it funny some of the things that Pooky was saying. If I'm correct in an assumption, it can never happen now.

[Nai]

Wait, are you saying that, following yesterday's lynch, you are confident in lynching Glork and myself?

I'll also say right now that I did not perform any action last night. One was not available due to a restriction being enacted, and the other would have been dangerous if I failed.

[Nai]

Right now, I think DGB needs to go. DGB was so with Pooky the entire day, defending every single crap-logic attack, constantly attacking me and Glork.

Note: That I can remember, DGB didn't go after Theo at all, and now, suddenly, he's on her scumdar. That's rather suspicious, to me. It sounds like two scum, and the one is trying to push the other away.

CarbonCopy - You claimed you had an ability that you would not share with us. Can you please share it now?

As for me: I should be at 3 votes still today. As for why I didn't use any ability last night: One of my two abilities was nulled because of its restriction, which I'm not revealing, still. The other, if a certain night action happens, will FAIL (as if I'm roleblocked) and I also would go down to 2 votes to be lynched. Since I figure we only have 2 mafia left, and I didn't want a quicklynch, I made damn sure that I didn't use it.

[Nai]

I can't help but wonder why CC doesn't want to say anything. It's suspicious to me when townies don't want to give information to other townies.

In any case, DGB looks like the best bet for the day.

[Nai]

Yes? Your point being? Almost everyone else has laid their entire role on the table. What makes you so special that your information isn't privy to the rest of the town?

[Nai]

I'm not in Europe. I just tend to play a lot when I'm awake, which is usually night-time for the Americas.

And, CC, I WAS thinking that there should be an invention. I was waiting for DGB to say something about it. I was hoping to catch her in another lie, since her inventions never seem to go to the right place, but...

[Nai]

This is very, very helpful for the game. Really.

[Nai]

Nah. Supposedly, a gift was supposed to come to me, but it didn't.

It's absolutely wonderful that one of the two main suspects for today is going to be gone.

[Nai]

DGB said something about it yesterday. I thought my name was on the list and that we had said that whoever was before me couldn't have gotten it, for whatever reason. But whoever was supposed to get it yesterday, didn't.

She also has a list of 3 names. The problem is, however, that she says she loses the use of one of those names if she breaks her restriction. She's done that at LEAST once each day, yet she still gives us three names.

[Nai]

CC, what do you mean YOUR catch? I've been against DGB for a LONG, LONG time.

If you've got a guilty on Theo, might be best to kill Theo. Come back to DGB on the next day.

[Nai]

Of course it wasn't. My point is that I spent a lot of time rereading this thread, only to first see someone steal my hammer, then the next day see the guy I was going to push for (and other people hadn't pushed for before) having a guilty investigation on him. I was really looking forward to being awesome again in this game, Glork, and it seems that my chances are kinda...lost.

I think you're taking this way too personally. It's your fault for not saying anything the majority of this game, and not saying anything before Glork gave his investigation. It's not Glork's fault he's being a good cop.

Which leaves us at you. You, whose claim is completely unconfirmable (seriously, blind JoaT?). You, who seems to have a love for targeting Theoscum, your little scumbuddy, thereby helping him out with his vig-claim and also making sure your role can never be confirmed.

Yes, he's unconfirmable. But a person who targets another person doesn't make him scum. It could mean that he's townie that has been targetting someone he's thought is scum.

Theo is scum. Primate is not scum, for obvious reasons. I do not believe Nai is scum, as that would further balance the game against the town. Miztef has confirmed Glork, which means that if Glork is scum, then Miztef also has to be scum. Miztef can be scum on his own, but his one-shot name investigation and the timing of the claim regarding his one-shot investigation came at such a time that I believe that he is town. I do not believe Goofy is scum, and if she would be, my opinion of her will be severely lowered.

What about DGB? She is so absurdly out there I'm amazed she's still alive.

Allow me to give a little insight on what I've been doing. While going through the stack of paper, I added little plusses and minuses where my gut said something.

This is an all around crappy way to prove that someone is scum, and shouldn't be considered at all.

EBWOP: Nai being scum would further balance the game against the scum, obviously.

I love how you completely ignore half the game. Y'know, my actual play, how I've been vehemetly against Pooky and DGB (one of which is confirmed scum), etc. You've been out of the game pretty much the entire game. Your voice, at least to me, is not worth much.

Now today he seems to be angry that I targetted him twice, saying that I've blocked him twice. but the only way that he would know I had blocked him is if he had tried to do an action - like vigging - both nights, something that he has explicitly said he did NOT do.

This is a very good point.

Theo is not a Vig. You are not a roleblocker. You are not some blind JoaT thing. You are nothing but a normal godfather. You claimed your silly JoaT thingy to help Theo.

Prove it. I also want to hear, at the same time, what your mystery role is.

Good jorb, I'm sure everyone's proud of you. I'll point out that all my plusses and minuses are based on actual perceived scum- and towntells.

Scumtells and towntells are WIFOM, period. And gut feelings are subjective evidence, not objective, and should be discounted.

That would be me, my dear Skruffs.

I love comments like this. Purely egotistical. It's a statement of "I got a role that can do this. But since I got a role that can, there's no way you could possibly have a role that could do a similar action. You know, like a doc and a roleblocker, perhaps?

Why did you claim to have blocked Theo?

He DIDN'T. This entire time THEO said he blocked him. The ENTIRE TIME Skruffs was saying he could NOT have done so.

I do not believe you for one second, Skruffs. I think you've been caught with your hand in the proverbial cookie jar, and now you're trying to get out of it.

And I think you're an extremely misguided townie who has no idea how to help the town, and has a very bad scumdar.

I think the actions we should follow are simple, and thus: We lynch Theo, who is investigated and found to be scum by Glork. Tonight, Glork investigates either Theo or DGB, his choice. Tomorrow we get the investigation. Whoever is town doesn't get killed. Simple, effective, town wins.

[Nai]

I'll point out that the information given to me by the mob said, specifically, that the guy I replaced (whose name escapes me currently)

vigged

Thesp, not

attempted to vig

, which says to me that he succeeded.

If Phoebus was a vig, he did not vig Thesp. That was my predecessor.

[Nai]

I love how the people on vacation come in, post that they're not going to be here still, and then leave. Neither of the two people we want to lynch can say anything for themselves. And so this game continues to stall, as it has for months.

[Nai]

Let me get you up to speed, IH, with what we know.

-Pooky was Scum, and was lynched.
-Glork has claimed to be a Cop. He sends a message to his target in the night with three questions, one being "Are you scum?" If they answer, he gets their alignment. And the answers are put into the opening post of the day.
-DGB has claimed to be an inventor role, and has a posting restriction of Z for the first letter of every post. Supposedly she gives three people go give her item to, and loses one of those choices that night. For some reason, half the time her first choice hasn't gotten an item.
-I am a Vig/Role Cop, with heavy restrictions on both. My predecessor vigged Thesp. I also have 3 votes to lynch, as opposed to the usual to-lynch vote.
- Primate claimed to be a Cloned Cat, who has a life for every 50k he's given. He, supposedly, has 2 lives left, if I counted correctly. Massive was the one funding him.
- I forget the word he used, but Skruffs has claimed a role that has X many choices, and may use one of the numbers at night, which gives a pseudo-random response. Supposedly, he's also got a doctor role from DGB.
- Theo claimed to be a Vig. I don't believe he was ever successful. Glork has a guilty result on him.
- And Carbon Copy is really Zindaras, who was able to control two accounts as pseudo-masons.

Have I missed anything?

[Nai]

Because no one has listened to me when I've been pushing for her lynch since the beginning of day 3.

But we have an investigated scum. DGB can wait until tomorrow.

unvote, vote: Theo

[Nai]

No, what DGB is saying is that she shouldn't be under any suspicion because I don't have a guilty on her. Let's forget that she was standing up, constantly, and firmly, for scumbag Pooky, that her night choices don't seem to be going where she says they are, that her missed restrictions don't seem to have applied, that her flavor makes no sense, that she's been using craplogic, etc. etc.

[Nai]

Unless I'm missing something, Skruffs, there's no possible way scum could quicklynch me today or tomorrow. Or do you have information I don't have?

IH, I didn't use my ability, and I don't plan to.

[Nai]

Let me explain my thinking:

My to-kill vote is still 3 votes. Unless a specific instance happens (and I'm not going to let it), my to-kill vote will ALWAYS be (if I read my role PM correctly, it's a little fuzzy) 3 votes. Unless we still have 3 scum (and we don't, since they could have quicklynched me already), scum would need to convince at least one other person I am scum to quicklynch me. If Theo is scum, and we lynch him, the scum will have to convince TWO people that I am scum to quicklynch me. You see my point?

And yes, IH, we were told that it was a one-shot deal.

I had a thought while driving. There's a rather famous cartoon cat named Heathcliff. People might remember him. If I recall correctly, Heathcliff had a gang of cats that all had different abilities. Do you guys see where I"m going with this?

[Nai]

Nope. Hence the replacement. I wonder... If he said that he had a one-shot ability just to make sure he wasn't going to be targetted...

[Nai]

We should discuss actions for tomorrow, I think. Our decision for today is set in stone, but we have time to discuss the lynch for tomorrow, which is nice.

Personally, I think DGB is a good lynch. Too much has not added up, too many people not getting a gift when they should, too many mistakes on the posting restriction with no consequence. Siding with Pooky the entirety of yesterday, so on and so forth.

[Nai]

I'm convinced that Theo is the correct choice for today. What I'm discussing is the actions for tomorrow.

[Nai]

Bumping this above closed threads.

[Nai]

I love posts like that. The "I'm back, but I'm not going to post any content, and only comment vaguely and uselessly about something."

[Nai]

Note the two people who choose not to end the day, and the person who made sure to have the first vote of the day. I find that interesting.

I still think DGB is scum, but I'm also looking closely at Carbon Copy and Skruffs. Neither think it prudent to lynch investigated scum. They'd prefer to go after other targets.

[Nai]

Fine.

Unvote: Theo.

Vote: Theo. Vote: Theo.

I'd like to ask why you think that, in this game, scum would have the drawback that they're lynched on 3 votes, but I'm sure the answer wouldn't be illuminating.

[Nai]

Y'know, I've been saying DGB was scum since, I don't know, yesterday, or before.

Is there a reason we can't finish THIS day so we can get on to TOMORROW?

[Nai]

It's also not as if things that you've said have directly contradicted each other, and that there's no way a game THIS stacked against mafia could have any mafia power roles. It's also not as if your flavor makes absolutely no sense in this game.

[Nai]

No, I think it's an act made by mafia with the ability that they can use to make themselves look more town. For instance, if I was a mafia rolecop (I haven't yet seen this used, but to make a point), I'd reveal investigations on other people if it would save my ass. It might clear townies, but it would make me seem clear, too. You may be mafia that gave gifts to townies to make herself seem townie.

Are we done with this day yet?

[Nai]

Y'know, Pooky said one intelligent thing yesterday. That's the fact that the town is VERY overpowered if the three mafiosos are only vanilla. So I can see the mod giving you an inventor role. It's not HIS problem if you choose to only target townies, is it?

[Nai]

And now you're purposely misinterpreting just to make sure that the point misses its target, so let me make sure I word it simply:

I believe you are scum with a power role to give items to other scum. This is balanced. However, to make yourself seem town, you've been giving the items to town. Your word is quite worthless, especially with your behavior yesterday, so saying you have no idea what the gift is is a very useless statement. For all we know, you know EXACTLY what it is.

By the way, Skruffs was asking you to attempt to DOUBLE vote, not just single.

[Nai]

If you, as scum, can convince the town you are town or long enough, it won't matter.

By the way, as per what IH has said, it seems that you didn't give out a doc investigation at all.

[Nai]

That was meant to be cop investigation, thank you.

[Nai]

I'm assuming Glork knew that Theo could daykill (assuming Theo's attempt is legit). I can only wonder why Glork didn't tell us this before so we could lynch him quickly.

I also find it VERY interesting about the people who didn't make the move to finally LYNCH the jerk. People who, perhaps, knew that Theo was scum, had the ability, and wanted to give him time to use it?

[Nai]

Apparently the mod screwed up.

Can we PLEASE kill him now?

[Nai]

Theo's just being a jerk and trying everything he can to confuse us. With his 'daykill' today, I wouldn't listen to ANYTHING he says.

WHY IS HE NOT DEAD YET?!

[Nai]

If CC is protecting Glork, I want Carbon Copy to be protecting CC.

I find it interesting that Skruffs, who I'm starting to become very suspicious of, is trying to get DGB to target him again.

[Nai]

Let me say that I was watching a movie when I posted that last post. That was meant to read that Skruffs should protect CC.

Nai - How does "You might as well give it to Nai" mean "Give it to me"???

Because after that you said "Unless you can give it to one of us again." That looks like an excuse to get DGB to give you another gift, if she's already given you one.

I"ll ask again, because this is getting rediculous. WHY IS THEO, AN INVESTIGATED SCUM REVEALED BY GLORK, WHO GAVE US ANOTHER SCUM, WHO 'ATTEMPTED' A DAYKILL, NOT DEAD YET? This game should be long since over!

[Nai]

Agreed. My vote's where it should be. I'm going to go make a statue.

[Nai]

What happened to that worry about you being killed by putting on the final vote?

[Nai]

Damnit. Well, I saw that coming. Good luck, town.

[Nai]

My role, paraphrased.

Each night, I may act as a role cop. But if anyone voted me the previous day, this ability is completely revoked.

Each night, I may act as a vig. But if anyone uses an action against me, not only does my ability automatically fail, I also lose a vote to lynch.

I started at 3 votes to lynch.

Last night, I attempted to get a cop on DGB, and vig Skruffs, to cover all bases.

This is one of the first games where I had two scum completely dead to rights, and that makes me happy.

[Nai]

Not, y'know, because I knew you were scum, was proving it, and you knew you were boned if I was still alive?

[Nai]

You would have, yes. While I was dead sure that DGB was scum, because I wasn't sure how the scum could be balanced, I was also quite suspicious of you. I thought that, if I hedged my bets and just killed you, we'd have our answer.