Mini 482: Shrek Mafia - Game Over

[Oman]

Hey guys, I just replaced Nox. Rereading, gimmie a day or two.

[Oman]

Things that popped up

Note I have no idea who replaced who so if I use the wrong names sorry

Grek's Nox vote in post 23 defended with

If the scum quicklynch, we find 2 scum for 1 townie. If they don't, we lose nothing.

Which sets up for a

really

bad scumtrap. It doesn't look good. Also it assumes A) Nox is town B) the last two voters are scum. Both of which are not proven and can't possibly be known to anyone but scum at this point.

Follow on point

If two other people quicklynch Nox, they are scum

LIES! Townies slip up too.

I give Mirth page 2 townie cred for working on this:

It also looks even more suspicious that you're unvoting right now, especially after we called you out on the initial vote.

Trigger happy townies exist too. Could have been perfectly possible for two townies to pile right on

I continue to not like Grek :

I think that finding 2 scum day one is better than having alot of discussion day one.

What about the third or fourth scum? What do you have to go on, they will almost certainly bus the hammerer.

I am unvoting because the scum didn't try to lynch Nox. Leaving my vote on her would be useless.

NOTE: Grek thinks Nox is town but was still happy to throw a -2 on.

Ben Halkum piggy-backs on Greks reasoning in post 37 and throws a vote down on mirth with no added reasoning

FoS: Ben or whoever replaced

OMG:

So what exactly is the point of taking your vote off?

To get you to stop complaining about it?

Worst. Excuse. Ever. 2 Reasons to vote A) YOu think they are scum B) No read, need pressure. 2 Reasons to unvote A) You no longer thinkt hey are scum B) you got the read from the response.
Also:

First, saying my logic is crap!logic without anything to back it up would be an ad hominem attack, which as you hopfuly know is a logical fallacy

Someones been reading the wiki. BTW. It was crap!logic.

Also Inhim's strange fourth vote reasoning.

End of page 2 lol.

[Oman]

Wait...I replace Nox...okay my things againts Grek are more than just OMGUS. BTW, its only Pg 2. I'll have more suspects by pg 6 i bet.

[Oman]

The next installment:

Mirth and Grek: either the best early distancing I've ever seen in my life, or at least one of you are townies, very possibly both.

I'd be inclined to agree.

However, I miscounted the votes before that, not realizing I would be the 4th.

I don't know about this, could be true, could be not.

----------ZINDIE ENTERS--------------------

As I've said, I just have a feeling, (as in I DON'T KNOW if that might have anything to do with it, it's just a thought, and when I say influenced, I didn't particularly mean consciously influenced, but maybe, subconsciously, Grek's arguments just seem better to him).

Why are you so quick to assume scumminess?

Defends Ben fiercly over a true statement by Zindaras

THIS is why I voted you Mirth.

Ben enjoys requoting and making a 1-liner then lurking?

I'll go with my fellow good guys

Firstly, who says they're good guys. Secondly, you don't vote with all the cool kids, do your own thing.

Well, with being just a good guy I am only having to go off of suspecions and randomness like you guys.

Appeal to emotion.

I don't see it.

His play doesn't sit well with me... I actually am not sure how many actual votes this puts on benhalkum but... I am busy with 12 hours of RA training a day, every day this week and well... That's my input for now. Weak sauce? I really don't think so. Because right now, my gut tells me benhalkum is scummy.

This was a -4 vote. It seems awfully careless to throw a vote on not knowing where they're at, especially when votes have been put on before you (and she's bound to have seen those even if not counted)

I would like to hear what else ben has to say before I vote. Leaning heavily towards him being scum.
Fos:benhalkum

Yuh hu. Scumtell.

Doesn't look like he's going to show up and after him saying on Monday we'll see more of him we haven't seen much.

I don't like this. Zindara just finished saying (rightly) how snowball bandwagons are usually on a townie. Camisade goes against this and votes to try to keep the wagon going.

I really don't need to explain a day one vote, no one does. NONE of us know who's who, and day one its never easy to choose.

If you lynch me, just look back to who pushed the hardest and who jumped right on the bandwagon

Two thinks wrong with this. Number 1 is the first sentence is a LIE! Number two is that the second sentence is usually said by scum to disuade townies from jumping on.

What I did was more like a cop not posting the names of the innocents he has found so they aren't nightkilled for being a confirmed innocent.

I don't see the similarities, I think he's setting up for a fake-claim later, or maybe even to make himself seem town (i.e. Like a cop)

I am not breadcrumbing anything. I am not claiming anything. The cop, if we have one, shouldn't claim anything.

Now the scum know you're not the cop...well done

But saying it was founded, and then denying it saying it was random when pressed for explanation, is just plain scummy to me.

I'm going to have to agree with myself on the subject of Ben's vote on mirth.

It bothers me that I keep being suspected of distancing. The distancing accusation makes it sound like you lot are a lot surer than I am about how, if Grek were lynched, he would turn out.

Damn, I want to agree and give Mirth some townie brownies for this, but she's getting into Nox/me. Ah well, I'll have to agree that I don't think what you did was distancing (as I said earlier with Adam).

My vote wasn't doing anything useful where it was and you where complaining about it, so I moved it.

You don't move your vote cause someone whinges about it.

Now this assumption basically translates to Grek thinking Nox is a townie.

It doesn't.

So you think Nox is scum on page 5?

Haschel posted his second PBPA which didn't really say anything. His long posts are fine, but I don't like the general lack of conclusion beyond: "Could be town, could be scum"

So I'm not going to try an persuade anyone to do anything. Independent thinking=good.

I don't like this. Its a good thing to try to convince others, it basically means that if you're town, you can get the scum. and if you're scum we can catch you in your overzealous persuasion.

----End page 6-----

Thoughts: Town=Mirth

Scum=
Haschel (for posting without saying much)
Grek (for doing the Greky things)
and ben is on the list (for being ben)

[Oman]

Scum=
Haschel (for posting without saying much)
Grek (for doing the Greky things)
and ben is on the list (for being ben)

If you think this, could you please explain why in greater depth. Also, honestly, I don't understand why you made a scum list if you're not done with a read through. I understand noting "I think so-and-so is suspicious here" on a pbp, but by ascribing a classification one way or the other in the middle of an initial read might throw you off.

I can't do much now (limited access) but I will say that I disagree with this on theory.

You'll note I didn't vote for a single one of them. Why? Because I haven't finished my readthrough. That list is fluid, and liable to change in any post. I feel (at the point I'm up to) that that is correct from a first read. I really don't see the problem with one of these.

The only problem I could see you having is perhaps a scumbuddy on that list? (Drats, I've been getting relativly pro-town from you though).

[Oman]

They're not connected, at least not yet.

I try not to connect players while their factions are unknown, as it usually leads to a townie getting lynched for "distancing" when he really did catch the scum.

Still on limited access, but finishing the last pages tomorrow.

[Oman]

Sorry for the delay:

Though obviously I can't PROVE this until the game ends or they are nked or lynched but... I believe I have a good theory goin.

This sounds like psuedo-uninformed. The idea that Goldfish knows something but is trying to feign ignorance. I also think the InHim+ben scumpair is unlikely (just a pair btw?)

@ Delicious: I like your point about the scum buddies (ben and inhim). I don't know if I'm completely ready to link both, but they are equally sketchy and seem to have rather strange play tactics at the moment. I want to do a reread of the game (probably tomorrow because it's late) and look more into this theory.

This response is pro-town (whether jex is or not is...undecided).

I don't like how quickly this is escalating, especially since InHim hasn't said very much. I would like to hear more from him.

Mirth is obviously pro-town, or playing very, very well.

I'm anti-ben's bandwagon because of its speed.

I thought speed was okay as long as we're bandwagoning for bandwagoning's sake?

I really didn't mean to make it so black and white... all this is snowballing from my initial reads on this game. I'm taking the stance I do now toward ben because of the resistance I am now experiencing.

Really, really backpedaling/floundering.

I feel his past few posts have been nothing but "yes lets look at inhim now" type posts.

I agree with this and say that jex is getting more townie-brownies as I read.

How could wagoning for wagoning's sake be of any benefit to the town?

He/I/Nox/I is wrong. Do not listen to this. I think everyone knows the benefit of wagons.

I'm assuming you know what vibes are, and so would know why I think it's silly you ask that I post them..?

If you're scum it gives us hints as to your buddy? If you're town it gives us information on what you think/feel. This really is anti-town.

It forces the scum to post some information that could be used to incriminate them later while promoting discussion.

I finally agree with Grek!

I'm going to tactfully ignore the question, pretend you really said, "I took the time to read your posts and wish you a good night," and go to sleep.

Its hypocritical, as Grek posted why InHim should post and yet InHim is saying that Grek didn't read HIS posts. This just looks...weird. Its a little too obvobv scum, there is no willingness to please or empathy for other characters. I refuse to use the "too scummy to be scum" arugment and will say this looks doubleplus ungood.

I brought it up twice in response to ben's ridiculously scummy posts and twice in response to posts talking about jesters.

Grek has kept talking about this jester thing, which means the town wouldn't want to lynch ben/apo. Grek+Apo scumbuddies?

...And yes, this is my response to the prod. I've been reading the thread.

Lurker. That is all.

but it looked like this particular post was set up for Grek dying during the night and you claiming "that's not what I would have done!" That's not necessarily where that post was intended to go, but I got a couple vibes of laying groundwork for later in that post.

Reaching...really reaching.

The possibility of other killing roles besides Mafia. We could have a serial killer. We could have a vigilante

Okay, here is the

Offical Oman Speculation

Mafia group (obvobv) - Misses NK for some reason(?)
Vig (pro town) - Doesn't NK N1 due to it being a stupid thing to do.
SK (anti-town) - Doesn't NK N1 due to the possibility of claiming vig later.

I'd doubt all three, so I'm going to say there is a scumgroup and a vig/SK. We should know by tomorrow (in that SK will kill more pro-town players and vig will kill scummier (WIFOM!))

I love the WIFOM being typed out. It's absolutely correct,

He is the instigator of the WIFOM argument...and now he's against it?

I was saying in my previous post that nothing you say about who you suspect will effect the mafia's night choice,

This post is full of wrong with a sprinkling of Phail.

Also, if we were in Kingmaker and you were the Queen who would be on your "Execution List"?

I happen to like this question. But:

Mirth, all you pretty much did during the whole game was discuss Grek's strategies.

This post is BS. Mirth has done some of the best protown work for this game.

He just wanted to survive.

Ping, ping, pingping, pingpingping. Sorry thats my breadcrumb-o-meter.

In her last post, Mirth avoided mentioning the word Grek even once, in order to decrease her average of Grek's per post.

Actually, I mentioned Grek's name once in that post. I'm surprised you didn't pick up on it, since you're so keen on counting the number of times I use his name

Mate...she owned you...hard.

Naturally, you can slip into whatever niche you want with replacing into the game, not having to follow your predecessor's footsteps

Can I?

I'd like to make comment here that Zindie's absence is on my DO NOT WANT list. However, I have a soft spot for the Kitty Kween and so I'm going to believe the story about RL (curses).

For now, I will vote: Mirth.

I feel this is misguided. Also, rather out of place after the last argument with Riki. I would also like to point out is the most active player that is copping heat (and I get that a LOT!).

I play on a different site (Westeros) 95% of the time I play Mafia.

This has scum written all over it [/joke]

Every single post that Pug89 wrote has already been written up by one or more people before him (read his posts, there are only 8 of them).

A very good catch. This dedication to the game (three/four rereads) puts Mexal next to Mirth on my town list.

Quite frankly I see this post as a contradiction in itself. Not having a feel on any of the people she posted about yet having some need for more information from myself and Pug... Well it just doesn't make sense.

You know, suspicion and desire for contriubution are not mutually exclusive. This is one of the worst deflections I've EVER seen.

You must have a feel on everyone except for myself and Pug.

Note how I also asked to hear more from Zindaras a few posts ago, because I don't have an opinion there either

You fail seriously bad at reading.

He posted 45 times on the site after this.
And we are on a deadline!!!
Lurking scum avoiding the spotlights before the deadline much?

I'll admit that it looks bad, Zind-monster should be posting in the game. However, this is fairly aggressive and leaps to a lynch right away using the imperitive "lurking scum avoiding the spotlights".

After that Goldfish just gets worse and worse and worse.

Oman's list

SCUM= Goldfish, Pbug, plus one or two others
UNSURE = Riki (leaning towards sum on this, but I'm not getting anything more than weak vibes)
TOWN= Mirth, Mexal

Oman's Action

Vote: Goldfish

[Oman]

I don't think InHim has done anything innately scummy

Being unhelpful is rather scummy (its not definative, but its certainly up there), in my book.

I was under the impression that an SK has to kill everynight

Its not a definate, some mods do some mods don't. I don't know Scope well enough to say.

Also, if we have an SK, the SK wouldn't in fact go for more protown players. The SK would probably rather go for mafia in this game, since they are night-killing and could put an SK in more danger than a day-lynch.

This is down to individual playstyles but when I play SK I work of the fact that vocal/analytical players are likely to out me early. However the scum tend to keep a scummy looking SK around due to the fact that they deflect attention.

When it's said all in the same breath, it just doesn't stand well with me.

What are you refering to?

AGAIN, did I point any fingers or vote? No. I simply pointed it out.

Right, cause only scum vote and point fingers. And only townies wouldn't do that. Don't make me WIFOM this.

Oman: I get worse and worse? You might want to delve into that since you saw it imperative that you vote for me.

Read my analysis. You didn't look too bad early, slightly lurky maybe, but then you just went to town on the whole not reading and accusing thing.

Do you have a non-OMGUSy reason to FOS us? Because I'd like that better.

Cue. Eff. Tee.

[Oman]

newbie =\= mini. I am more willing to mislynch an unhelpful D1 of a mini than a newbie. Note: I am not advocating InHim's lynch, my vote is on goldfish.

I'm going to have to look at Nox's again, as, looking at probability, there had to be at least one, maybe two scum on that.

Does this mean you beleive me/Nox to be town?

[Oman]

I was just wondering why if Nox was scum you would expect there to be two scum on that wagon.

[Oman]

Thats a good point. I can help you if you want...do you want help?

Nox is town...as am I. Did that help?

[Oman]

....I doubt all three AT ONCE.

We can have a mafia group and an SK/Vig (read: SK OR Vig).

[Oman]

Thats a good point. I can help you if you want...do you want help?

Nox is town...as am I. Did that help?

Why are you claiming?

Its mostly a joke. But seriously Claiming town means nothing...lets have a mass claim, everyone claims town/scum/neutral. I bet we get all town or maybe 1 survivour claim.

Claiming town is never taken seriously either, because of its pointlessness.

[Oman]

Thats a good point. I can help you if you want...do you want help?

Nox is town...as am I. Did that help?

Why are you claiming?

Its mostly a joke. But seriously Claiming town means nothing...lets have a mass claim, everyone claims town/scum/neutral. I bet we get all town or maybe 1 survivour claim.

Claiming town is never taken seriously either, because of its pointlessness.

Then why bother doing it if it is a joke. Premature, unwarrented claims make me uneasy.

If I claimed: survivour; vanillia; serial killer; or paranoid cop I'd understand your problem, but it was a town-alligned claim.

I understand your uneasyness in an overly cautious sense.

[Oman]

Sorry to answer your question:

Then why bother doing it if it is a joke

I play for fun. Jokes are fun. Hence the combination.

[Oman]

Mod !VC please

Guys, Goldfish has not only played quite scummily (check my analysis for my reasons) but also gone to (OMGUS) town on me and mirth. I don't want a nolynch today, its never a good thing.

[Oman]

unvote vote pbug

I never say what HC was talking about, but after checking it is in fact true.

Note: HC is pretty sure inhim is scum.

[Oman]

I also call Pug Pbug in the above post. Sorry if you read this pbug

That, and most of the things people say they find suspicious about me, is from near the beggining of the game.

Cause there has been so many other posts to look at

Something Grek conviently leaves out is that the vote I'm not moving is on him, essentialy making his vote OMGUS. HC's vote is slightly as well.

This is just funny. Grek gives a reason (quite good) for why he think you're scum. You do just reiterate things that others said. You do try to look acitve without attention being pointed your way. Then you say is OMGUS, stop misrepresenting Greks vote on you. Also HC is OMGUS, because you're voting for him AND grek.

Well, I'm going to say that your OMGUS call on grek is OMGUS for voting you. Its like OMGUS4OMUGSING. "An Omgus for an Omgus, and the whole world goes.....Bongus?"

Whatever, my point is that you are wrong.

Vote stands (though on pug more than pbug)

[Oman]

You make think his reason is good but it's not true.

I can't know that can I?

I would advise against counterclaiming in some cases.

This girl is oh so obviously town.

It wasn't actually called doctor, but that's basically what it is.

you may claim the rolename word for word. Just not the whole PM. Do you mind telling us what you can do?

If we have a cop, he should get investigated.

what a waste. Also, don't direct the cop, they're big enough and ugly enough to do it themselves.

My vote stays on pug. I simply cannot see Merlin as the doctor, not to mention the fact that he contradicts himself, saying "it wasn't actually a doctor, but thats basically it"

[Oman]

The post never calls my role doctor, or anything specific for that matter, but that's essentialy what I am.

Do not hide this from us, if you really are protown, then you can't gain anything by hiding.

AT THE VERY VEYR BEST: I would say merlin is an ineffective doc of some kind.

[Oman]

Yeah but it sounds like there is more to it. And I don't like anyone hiding anything from the town (especially as I don't believe this role claim)

[Oman]

I don't buy it.

The way I see it, if you are a doc, you're dead tonight anyway, unless we let you live with the clause if you survive you're the lynch. Wait let me rephrase:

We have two choices: 1) lynch Pug
2) Don't

The scum have two choices:
1) Kill pug
2) don't

If pug is scum, they will not kill him. If we say he is scum if he lives through the night, they will not kill him.

The end result is that based on a smart mafia and a smart town, our best bet is to lynch Pug.

[Oman]

Based on the Donkey/Puss bodyswitch thing

He could be a busdriver type role....then someone would have died instead of Nox...hmmm.

Oman, the fact that you keep pointing out that you think I'm town strikes me like you're trying to get into my good graces. It isn't working.

Actually its because I find what you say to be very protown, I'm merely pointing out I doubt you're scum.

[Oman]

Yeah Thats the conclusion I came to as well.

[Oman]

Oman's swinging around his pressure from person to person until he finds someone who people can get behind on a vote doesn't sit well with me either.

Swinging around? Are you kidding me? I have voted twice, one for you. One for Pug. If you seriously thing they were both unfounded and I'm swinging around for pressure, I doubt you are reading this game.

He pressured people into-- no, he TRIED to pressure people into voting for me with a "hey guys the deadline soon, let's vote goldfish!" type of deal.

Tell me where I say "hey guys the deadline soon, lets vote goldfish!" or anything of that kind. You were my logical conclusion after my analysis and I voted you. Stop making me out to be controling the town when I'm not.

And then trying to get into the good graces with other people.... Telling someone over and over again you think they're town isn't a very townie thing. Townies are usually suspicious of everyone around them, never letting someone else trick them into a feeling of ease about another player.

Right, so I'm definatly scum because I beleive mirth to be protown. I'm sick of this. I merely point out places where I think Mirth says townie things (and they are). If I was making an unfounded point about Mirth I'd accept this as a problem, but the fact that Mirth is making almost all pro-town moves means that I beleive her to be town. YES, she could be tricking me and playing extremely well. But I heavily doubt it.

Unvote Vote Goldfish

You misrepresented me many, many, times in there. Which combines with your earlier OMGUS and WIFOM to put you easily above a possible doc. Next time you attack me, get your facts straight.

[Oman]

That sentence is obviously doctor.

If he is town (and not lieing) then he is a doc, possibly ineffective, yet saved me last night...hmmm.

[Oman]

I disagree with lynching inactives (not lurkers) on principle. Basically, they don't have a chance to defend, nor do they have any real information after their lynch (I mean, if InHim is scum, we'd have early defence of ben and what else?).

The fact that InHIm has had 0 posts since requesting replacement makes me think he is not a lurking scumbag. But just either an inactive townPC or an inactive scumbag. I feel better(/worse?) about goldfish right now.

[Oman]

Hold up: you lurk through this whole game and then show up exclaiming "vibes" now is the time for referencing game data to back up your claim. I could accept gut as a reason to look at me, but you're going to want to fall one way or the other pretty soon.

[Oman]

though I'm seeing Goldfish as town (gut feelin mostly)

I really wanna hear this.

Mexal: I'm Incredibly shocked that your first post was what it was. My list of first posts is severly different to yours. In fact my first thoughts were a modified Zindaras':

-Aww, bugger, I had no real scummy vibes from her
-Hmm, interesting, we seem to not have a role-reveal.
-We only had one kill. Less likely we have an SK with that, or our doc protected right.
-I like kittens. (I left this one)
-Some anti-MoS statement

Now. About the SK. I can clearly see one here. And pugdoc blocked it.

So my question to the claimed doc is: Who did you protect?

[Oman]

The rules do not state this is a no-role reveal game, so I hope there is an ingame event (a player power, a character's death) that triggers the role revealing.
No role reveal games are very hard for town to win, since every lynch is more or less a day 1 lynch.
Ah, and it's also not fun at all.

At least we get allignment.

[Oman]

Vote Pug

1. I want to hear who he protected.
2. I know he claimed doc, but claims dont mean truth
3. Its -4
4. where is he? I feel like he escaped yesterday based on inhim's shafty vote on grek and is now off frollicing in scumland.

[Oman]

A good point. I was merely being optimistic.

[Oman]

activity surge FTW

I shall post here nowish.

[Oman]

Begins D2ish

Unvote Pug

he answered me.

Faerielord posts a horrible PBPA that says pretty much nothing at all.

In reality, you voted Grek, as you did nothing to stop his death.

I reject this theory that not voting for someone to overtake the wagon means that Mirth is responsible for the Grek lynch. I'd say the people on him are more responsible (even then 2 votes at deadline doesn't give us much).

Not acting is a similar choice to acting.

Yes, but Acting A is not simillar to not acting B when the two are mutually exclusive, Action A prevents Action B, but does not cause the inverse of Action B. I.e. Voting InHim prevents Voting someone who will overtake Grek, voting InHim does not cause Grek's lynch.

I don't like any of these votees, but since one of them is going to die, I'm going to vote the scummiest from the set.

Ouch, I heavily disagree with this. You don't vote the scummiest of A or B, you vote for who you think is scummiest. Nothing should control a pro-town vote.

But there is no reason not to vote.

This is true however.

If I look into Goldfish and decide that nothing she has said really bothers me, then problem solved.

Well? Has anything she's said bothered you?

Anyway, this is a pointless argument by both sides.

No its not. You're just not happy that Zindaras put up a defence and attacked you.

No, speculating isn't definate, but not speculating might miss some things too.

I agree with this. Speculation is okay, but if we start fishing I'm calling a stop to it.

Note my vote now.

I, too, am suprised that you didn't vote yesterday, but first thing today. You lose townie brownies.

If you want to try to destroy my playstyle, please do this after I've posted my conclusions. Thanks.

I've been waiting for these for a long time. More postnow plz.

and with Goldfish, everybody keeps saying that's her playstyle.

And you accepted this? Sad.

but I'm not going to vote for null tells.

Sounds like you're not going to vote at all, besides some half-baked HC vote. I'm damn upset that you're getting scummier as we go.

I was asking what you thought of Pug

saying

he protected me

You beleive he didn't really?

Why didn't you attack Goldfish though?<snip>as you're trying to cast suspicion on me for even looking at Goldfish.

Zind and Goldfish?

Mexal's 423 points out some...just wow stuff.

perhaps the reason there aren't any comments on Goldfish, because, apart from early posts about Ben and Inhim, the rest of Goldfish's not very numerous posts, are in response to people being suspicious of her and rather OMGUSy in a not particularly informative way.

Okay, good idea, BUT - Zindaras should be mentioning Goldfish's OMGUS and lack of post. They also shared suspect lists, etc. Zindaras could've/should've at least looked at Goldfish's OMGUS.

Simple; I do not believe that he protected Mirth. I believe that he targeted Jex last night.

This is s pretty heavy accusation. You seem pretty sure too? Any reason?

Oh, Zindaras just pointed out Mexal is pretty low in the Goldfish department to. Although, to be fair, Mexal came in way after Zindaras.

HAI Glork

Also, Adam/Fae is mostly hunch-based.

Yeah well I'm not going to

probably accept that Glork, Ben/Riki, and probably Adam/Faerie are town and move on with your life.

Based on Glork's hunch, sorry.

Glork, I disagree with your lack of desire to post your reasons. While I accept you do post little bits (Ben's wagon being full of gas etc. ) I don't like seeing people get away with that. At worst, regardless town or scum, I want to learn as much as possible and this is a great way for me to learn (hearing your tells either way).

I wanna put a

MAJORFOS: Zindaras and Goldfish

and a

Minor Fos on Mirth

For being slightly off D2.

[Oman]

if Pug was scum, it would have been better to claim attempting to protect Jex (since Jex was the most squeaky-clean person here), as there is speculation about Pug's effectiveness. (Since Merlin wasn't the most competent of characters in the movie).

I disagree. I feel less hesitation is lynching a non -effective doctor than an effective one. Claiming a usefull role is one of the reasons pug survived.

[Oman]

Firstly...WHAT! You killed a lurker with vig power. Okay thats fine but....

1) Does this mean pug is lying or does glork have NK immune? (I suggest Glork doesn't claim right now, this is enough)

2) Is Goldfish a 1-shot or not?

3) Is goldfish Vig or SK?

4) Would Goldfish have known if she was RBed? Is it possible it occured without her knowing? (I've never been RBed so I don't know if you get a PM or what).

[Oman]

I'd like to see a little REAL content from Faerie.

[Oman]

3. Why ask me specifically? Is it because I keep asking you to talk and stuff?

Actually its refering to you, but asking Pug. Its Pugs "protect" of you that they want to hear more about.

My thoughts bolded:

1. Glork has a NK-immune role.

Possible

2. Your status as Vig might be limited. (i.e. maybe you're a 50% vig or something)

I doubt this highly, its not an extremely likely occurance in a mini. It could be true, however

3. Someone protected Glork.

The most likely so far

3a. Pug is the doctor and lied about protecting me, and thus protected Glork (double why? why Glork and why lie?)

This is a very interesting scenario. Pug has no reason to lie if he's town

3b. We have another doctor who protected Glork. (why?)

Protecting InHim/Glork is certainly an interesting move. I might take a look at who thought he was almost definatly town

3c. Glork is mafia and the mafia have their own doctor who protected Glork. (which would really suck.)

Another interesting possibility. Is it possible this mafia doctor protected a town player?

4. Someone has one of those annoying swapper roles, and possibly flipped Jex's night event with Glork's night event. (as this isn't a rollblock per say, you might not have gotten informed.)

Hmm...I'm gonna put this one very high on the list. Its almost a shrek role (Shrek 1 he transports Fiona). I personally feel this fits Merlin better than anyone else (bodyswap) So maybe Pug was lieing about that too. But who would protect InHim/want Jex killed?

I too want to hear more of Pug.

Glork are you NK immune? I thought this over and I think it benefits town above if not as much as scum. Basically they get nothing out of it except don't try to kill him, but they'll be trying to WIFOM the doc anyway. It would also be helpful to prevent any doc(s) from protecting him unneccasarily, as well as helping us get our head around this situation.

I am not liking a pug/Goldfish scumpair now. If they were they could have "chosen" the same target for their fakeclaim, which would mean that they would almost confirm eachother.

[Oman]

Swappers are hilarious when you swap the doc for the godfather, and the godfather gets NK by scum! They're a great role, but deadly this early and in a mini as NKs are a big part of scumhunting.

(since both Jex and Glork are dead.)

You need more tea

I personally assosciate Fiona with an SK over vig. Pretty much because Fiona kicks everyone, regardless, and in the first movie she is pretty violent to the goodies Regardless, I doubt the town are all good characters and the scum all bad, its too obvious and leaves it open to a massclaim town win. Of course, could be a fakeclaim either name and/or role.

Goldfish is still the scummiest to me, claiming whilst not under pressure, the D1 OMGUS, its all a bit too much.

In fact why haven't I yet

Vote Goldfish

'Bout time I did.

[Oman]

...I guessed Glork a mason earlier when he said

The probability of Ben/Riki being scum in my eyes is exactly zero.

I really did not want a claim.

I don't like Goldfishes claim at all.

Mirth- I have never played with a Scumdoc but I have seen them outside of bastard mod. The ones I saw had either a "no protecting scum" or a "no protecting the person who makes the kill" stipulation, to prevent vig/sk from being screwed.

Another reason scumdoc looks likely- so far we have:
Grek = townie
Pug = Claimed doc
Glork = Claimed Mason
Riki = Claimed Mason (semi) Riki can you back this up please?
Goldfish = Claimed Vig.
??? = True Doc/RB/Busdriver

Our town has some power in its pockets, I'm thinking a scumdoc/scumrb is very likely.

[Oman]

Thus, the Doctor would be somebody who suspects Pug in spite of his claim (there are, as far as I can remember, only two people who have expressed willingness to lynch Pug today) and somebody who believed inHim to be protown towards the end of yesterday (which I have not checked, but will do in a bit).

These two conditions are good ones, but the doctor is obvious. I don't want to out him/her, unless I'm the only one. But there is a good chance that the scum has found the doc and are keeping quiet about it.

For all we know, Jex could have been the roleblocker/protector/switcher. Don't forget, this appears to be a limited-reveal game.

I forgot about that, now I have to ammend my list.

what in god's green earth makes people think Princess Fiona would be mafia aligned

Actually I thought she might be self aligned at the worst. But remember, things are put in place to prevent a massclaim, such as goodies having badies' names and vice versa.

And Oman, why the frick do you have a vote on me??? Anti-town much?

Because I don't believe you.

Why did Pug decide to protect Mirth?

I found mirth to be the most Pro-town player yesterday. I don't see a problem with this.

1) Perhaps Glork was switched with Mirth. This would cause Mirth to die, as the doc protection on her would have actually protected Glork, leaving her defenseless to DG. This did not happen, so Glork and Mirth were not switched.

Right but wrong, the kill would have been swapped as well. Protecting Glork and killing mirth. So yeah, you're right, they weren't switched or mirth would be dead.

2) Perhaps Jex was switched with Mirth. This would cause Glork to die, and possibly cause Mirth to die. At any rate, Jex would have lived, due to the protection intended towards Mirth.

So Mirth was the NK target and Jex got swapped in. I don't mind the idea but I do not believe it to be so, simply because it doesn't account for Glork.

3) Perhaps Jex was switched with Glork. This would cause Jex to die at the hands of DG. Then the Mafia could have targeted Mirth and been foiled by Pug saving her. This could have logistically happened. But it did not happen, because Pug is a liar.

The most sane and rational idea of the three. Accounts for everything so far. The switch would have been to what? Protect Jex from a mafia NK and kill Glork/InHim?

The fact that she sought out mod confirmation about the roleblocking indicates to me that she is not pulling a vig claim out of her ass.

Thats complete WIFOM, and easily engineered. You don't even know if she really did seek mod confirmation.

if there's a Doc out there, they should counterclaim Pug.

C'mon Glork, you're smarter than this. Am I the only one that can pick the real doc?

[Oman]

C'mon Glork, you're smarter than this. Am I the only one that can pick the real doc?

Nope.

We should definatly have a party then!

[Oman]

I'd like to hear what everyone else has to say about lynching Pug. Also what they think of Oman.

Okay. I believe Pug to be lying, and I do have a reason. I don't really want to reveal it now as its another player that is causing it and I don't want to do anything involving them until we know what Pug is.

I think Oman is protown

If Pug isn't a doctor, I'll be massively FOSing Oman,

I just want to point out a few things. 1. I/Nox could have been protected by another player. 2. When I read through the size of the Noxwagon disturbed me, I thought it looked very much like scum was on it (sheer size over time).

Hence Glork being alive should mean that Goldfish wasn't roleblocked, which would make Goldfish's declaration true. If Goldfish isn't lying there is no reason to suspect her, yet Oman does. Does that make sense?

This is slightly incorrect. What it means is that Glork was protected. Goldfish could still be lieing, I don't KNOW that Glork was protected, and I don't believe Pug.

Let me explain: Glork is alive. We have two main choices:

1. Goldfish attempted to kill him | 2. Goldfish didn't attempt to kill him

Now, for #1 we have two further ideas:

1.1. Glork was protected/swapped with Jex and someone else was protected from scumNK

or

1.2. Goldfish was roleblocked


For #2:

2.1 Goldy is a lieing scumbag

2.2 Goldfish is a lying townie.

So: Goldfish may be trying to draw out a real doc by getting the town to ask "Who is the Doc? Did you protect Glork?" OR the other possibility is that Goldfish is trying to get by on a badly thought out claim.

Anyway, my point is thus: Glork alive does not clear Goldfish, as I do not know who the "real" (I don't know for sure, but it looks certain) doctor protected. Goldfish could be scum who No killed to throw suspicion on someone, I don't know. I'm not sure about all the connects, but as a bandwagon on me should not clear me, this claim should not clear Goldfish (especially as it was unprovoked and out of the blue).

[Oman]

Mirth is definatly telling the truth here.

Which leads me to believe that Goldfish was only trying to draw the doc out (and it worked lol). I frankly STILL don't like Goldfish, but that claim cleared up a lot.

I'm curious why Oman thinks Pug is lying and who exactly he seems to be protecting.

Well...I'm now at an interesting position as I don't want to out this person in case they are a doc and we have two (hooray for us) but I do in case they're scum. I think I'll hold this card if you don't mind for a while. I will tell you guys eventually, but only when it becomes neccesary.

because I think you and I both know that Goldfish isn't lying about attacking Glork at least.

No, I didn't know that. But I certainly beleive it more.

and probably Goldfish are cleared.

This still doesn't clear goldfish. It only proves she killed (or tryed to).

Mirth, do you mind nameclaiming please?

Vote Pug

I can not see three docs in this game.

[Oman]

So...what does this mean for a scumdoc idea? I'd say its very likely.

[Oman]

Wait: I have an idea.

We get role on lynch, but not on NK, right? I believe beyond all doubt 1 of the three claimed docs, and I believe another (that hasn't claimed) because of they way they're playing (very doc).

That leaves 2 unconfirmed docs out of 4 in my mind.

I think the lynch today is out of A) Pug B) Zindaras or C) Goldfish.

I believe Goldfish is a killrole. Whether SK or vig or scum is different. I can believe SK or vig before I can believe scum.

Pug is the shiftiest so far. And in my mind the best lynch.

Zindaras, who did you protect last night? Zindaras is another of the unconfirmed docs, and that puts her second to Pug in my mind.

Glork and DR are right out, as is Mirth. I'm really not happy Mirth has taken to quoting role PMs, really not happy, even just on principle.

My vote stands.

[Oman]

I also still don't understand why you're so anti-Goldfish here.

OMGUS, and that strange earlier vig claim, Goldfish looks the second worse to me.

I don't really want to jump on these guys, as I feel they're both very protown, but could Glork and Riki be taking a gambit on this mason thing?

No, I don't think so.

I prefer lynching pug to lynching Goldfish, because pugs death will give us some insight into the other docs. I can see maybe 3 docs with 2-3 of them being town (not going to discount a scumdoc). Do we want to finish this massclaim or what? The only role I'm not sure of is Mexal's.

[Oman]

Okay...here we go and this is why I was so adamant about a scumdoc in the game:

I am dragon, anti-doc. I target a doctor and make their protection void...or I target a player and make doctors on them void...I don't really know, the role PM uses the word player too much. I have no idea of my predessesors N1 action.

I didn't use my power last night, simply because I didn't want to mess with doc protects if I didn't KNOW there was a scumdoc.

I don't know where to go on this but: what if we nolynch, the docs protect mexal and we, fo' serious, do follow the cop, we have like 4-ish docs (i'm betting one if not two are scum) and we can tell which are scum by which don't get NKed. It'll be ages before mexal gets killed. The godfather will be our biggest problem

[Oman]

I'll try to find it out (though I really see no reason for them to use it when they have no reason to suspect a scumdoc).

Oh and in my mind, goldfish now looks a viable vig. The idea of heaps of docs and me blocking a scumdoc or lone towndoc (I think he's town, well i'm going to vig him, well I'm going to save him etc) would not occur if there was not a protown Night killing role.

[Oman]

N1 Nox did.....nothing!

I assume Nox thought the same as me "WTF! Why do I want to block a doc?" And thus did nothing. Last night I did the same.

I think I'm like a roleblocker in this game...except I don't affect Mexal or Goldfish, or whoever else killed. Yeah Roleblocker sounds better than my lamearse role.

[Oman]

nope. (interesting thought that claim is completely self verified)

[Oman]

I just want to post a bit of a defence of my role:

I know its better to do nothing unless we have a scumdoc, hence, I did nothing.

[Oman]

Scumdoc, thats the only reason. Also would have been a good idea (I see now) to come out D1 and say "Doc heavy game?" so that info could've helped. I dunno.

[Oman]

Well with all these docs a follow the cop game could be helpful.

[Oman]

Pug just jumped on that idea from Glork!

Also, I understand my role is dangerous, and hence I've been playing like a vanillia.

[Oman]

I'll agree to wait until DR is done.

unvote

[Oman]

I'll comment on his analysis when he's done.

I've already said I didn't like pugs jump on Glork's idea.

I'm interested that you didn't ask glork if he has other comments, when all he did was unvote.

[Oman]

Oh I meant Haschel...sorry. There were numerous tells. I'll look for them if you want, but I'm lazy as sin, so unless you request I can.

[Oman]

Between this and study, this won out:

1 reason was this

Simple; I do not believe that he protected Mirth. I believe that he targeted Jex last night.

This was unwavering. To which I replyed:

This is s pretty heavy accusation. You seem pretty sure too? Any reason?

Yes.

The combination of confidence, mixed with a stern yes but no more reveal left me with the knowledge HC was a doc.

I'm not sure if the real doctor should come out yet.

This was an EBWOP that looked sort of "oh and by the way" to me, making me think he was A) suppressing the town/scum's desire for his own claim and B) making himself look non-doc.

Am I the only one that can pick the real doc?

Nope.

Just gut at the beggining but he quickly had me knowing it.

[Oman]

The wagon on me is completely fair, it seems legitimit, with most voting me because they truly feel it to be a scum role (even though, as scum I wouldn't've claimed it ...but WIFOM) I have no OMGUS against people whatsoever.

I'll reread tomorrow (bedtime now) but pug has been my favourite for lynch,but that could be lingering thoughts on him being a scumdoc (trying to get in my good books by protecting me(?))

[Oman]

Mass Game Post: Gonna be hungover tomorrow, sorry

I should be able to post.

[Oman]

the mafia will just kill someone outside of the assignments. Thus there is no chance to check if any of the doctors are lying because their protection targets will not be the mafia targets that night

This is the beauty of it. If we pick the two scummiest players to be "outside" doc protects (or is it 3...i forgot how many docs we have) then the mafia will possibly be left with no alternative but to no kill if the two or three outside are scum.

[Oman]

okay, I counted wrong. I thought we'd only have two or three outside the loop.

I fail.

[Oman]

I don't like that for one reason Mirth.

That is that you're giving options so if the scum DO kill, they can just say "oh, I protected the OTHER one"

[Oman]

Okay, I'll probably get slammed for this, but what if we no lynch and go off mexal's result. We'll probably lose a doc, but we get a confirmed innocent/guilty (I accept mexal as protown).

Of course, we need to work out this whole who protects who thing.

[Oman]

Depends Mirth, the idea is that with a guarenteeable cop result (through a doc protect) with a no lynch is better then a guarenteeable cop result and a town lynch. If I wasn't the probable lynch it would depend on who was the lynch and whether I was convinced enough that they were town.

[Oman]

You got an innocent on the masons, and I really don't see a mason gambit.

[Oman]

It shouldn't say either way (it ruins the point of insane if it tells you) I'm merely saying evidence points towards you being sane.

[Oman]

Well in reverse you should've expected it lol.

I don't like the way you're discrediting Mexal straight up. Sane in this setup makes a lot more sense than a niave cop.

[Oman]

oh whoops. I never read reverse.

Because it removes potential confirmed innocents, for no reason, which is a scum move.

[Oman]

yep, exactly.

[Oman]

yes, its just to keep cops on their toes. I don't see it in this game, it simply doesn't fit with what we've got so far.

Unvote vote no lynch

[Oman]

we need a doc to protect mexal and one to protect glork and one to protect DR with no ambiguity in that doc.

[Oman]

Yep, Glork.

[Oman]

Sorry, unavaliable next 48hrs, Australian weekend.

[Oman]

Oh Man!

Bah, I'm more upset Glork didn't hammer (Note: do not read into this, in a game sense the guy has just had many hammers stolen off him lately)

[Oman]

Ya, well done town. I should've claimed roleblocker, why didn't I claim roleblocker!

Anyway, why pick Zindaras for the investigate?

[Oman]

Also, I'd like to see the setup. It seems to be a whole lot of doc neutrals, a pair of town masons, a cop, and the two scum?

[Oman]

yeah it was...that two docs kills rule should've at least been made known to the scum. They could've used it as a real help.

[Oman]

ZOMG, zindy is back to good avi!