Open 60: The New C9 - Game over!

[Rigel]

Hey, I'm your friendly neighborhood replacement. I'm reading the thread at the moment, but I'll get a post up as soon as I'm done.

[Rigel]

Okay, I've finished my read-through, and here are a few things that I picked out.

First off, I'm going to say that I believe that there is an almost 100% chance that Jesse is a (the) cop. The possibility that he and his scumbuddies set up a Day 1 lynch of their own just to make him look like a townie is too farfetched to be possible. Thus, he's got to be the cop.

Secondly, LG brought up a good point a page ago; that SSF voted for Six Aces after there were already 10 votes on him and he was going to be lynched. I know that the general theory on this is that he was "late to the party" but he was 8 hours late to the party, not just one or two. A miscount is possible, but since SSF never even explained the situation, I'll like to hear his side of the story. So, SSF, if you could address this, I'd greatly appreciate it.

After Peers and ryan were NKed during Night 1, LaptopGun said that Phate was referencing an SK when he clearly was not. Here are the two posts to compare:

I know congratulating the doctor is a scumtell, but I'm not sure about congratulating the killer... at any rate, I tip my hat to whoever offed Ryan for making an excellent choice.

Jesse, why are you alive? Am I confusing this with another game or did you not just claim cop?

Phate how do you know Ryan was killed by the SK?

Anyhow I think the mafia have decided a confirmed, or so I believe, townie of jessie's ability is less of a danger than one of the two who was offed last night. I'm gonna have to reveal some posts, and I suggest others do the same, to see if either said anything potentially dangerous to the mafia or SK. It is potentially damaging that Jessie is still alive without a doc protect, but I find it totally reasonable that the mafia attempted to confuse the town. We now have the possibility that Jessie is scum instead of having a confirmed townie. He did reveal a Mafia though, so unless he turned on his scum buddy (which I just don't see- Day 1 under no real pressure) I have a hard time believing it. Or he's the SK and got extremely lucky he hit scum on Day 1 in a blind guess. Or Jessie is such a criminal genius he is going to out the other mafia as if he were the cop and hope to survive alone until the end of the game. Not that those last two are ridiculous or anything

I don't like outing the cop esp. on Day 2 with 3 mafia left and no guarantee of a doc, but Jessie you do need to tell us who you investigated. I want this mafia ploy over and done with so we can focus on other suspects.

Oh and if it's not obvious: If we have 1 or more doctors please do not out yourself or selves. The town doesn't need another power role in jeopardy.

This doesn't really cast LG in a good light. In the first line, he puts suspicion on Phate for something that isn't even in Phate's post, and in the paragraph below, he discusses what the Mafia might have thought overnight, and then tries to direct the town into investigating Jesse again. It's not particularly damning evidence, but it's at least a little bit scummy, to say the least.

At the beginning of Page 7, Shteven makes a rather strange comment.

Also, I'd like to amend my previous maybe answer. It's still maybe, but

if we do have a vig, it's possible that both he and the SK picked up jesse as a possible scum

. So it's a slightly more likely maybe. Would be pretty interesting to see that all 3 night powers were on him over his vote on jesse.

It is stated at the beginning of the thread that there is no vigilante. The only killing roles that are in this game are the Mafia, and the Serial Killer. Which makes this comment about the Vig uninformed at best, and deliberately confusing at worst. I would assume that the roles would be known by all players, although I could be wrong, so this is more scummy than accidental in my eyes.

Later on, Kabenon chooses to criticize Shteven for asking why Jesse was still alive. What he fails to do is criticize either Phate or Farside, both of whom had previously addressed the same point. I'm not really sure what to make of this, but since there has been other evidence brought up of Kabenon's scumminess, such as his odd voting style at the game's beginning, and the fact that he's been taking an odd stance on Shteven the whole game, I'm going to chalk this up as another scummy move. This might clear Shteven of his Vig comment, but then again, it might not; the two of them could be bussing each other.

However, one incident that I find more probable to be bussing is one from the very beginning of the game, between Kabenon and Wesaq. Remember him? First off, Wesaq hasn't posted since January 15. So I'm going to ask if we can get a

Prod: Wesaq

, just to see if he'll show up to defend himself.

At the very beginning of the game, Wesaq random votes Kabenon, giving a reason for his vote that isn't particularly random. Kabenon jumps on this, OMGUSing him for his "random vote with a reason". Wesaq eventually responds to this OMGUS vote, saying that:

I phrased it not as clearly as i thought. I selected you as a random target. And after that i found a reason to choose you.

His reason is Kabenon's usage of Unrightousout Quitdirty to refer to Justin Playfair when voting, and this train of thought derails the town for a while, keeping them from doing any actual scumhunting. Next, Wesaq says that:

But i still see no other choice, so the Vote is still with you.

People ignore this at first, but then Kabenon redirects townthought back towards Wesaq, saying the current idea being discussed (interrogating veteran players) is pointless and they should focus on Wesaq. It appears as though the Wesaq-Kabenon Conflict is being used as a tool to divert the town from any conversations that might be helpful. His plan works; many of the town's more analytical thinkers begin to discuss and interrogate Wesaq, ignoring anyone else for the time being. The only reason that the Wesaq conversation is broken off is because Jesse goofs and FOSes Johnny Playfair, eventually cracking under pressure and revealing his role.

Now, I'm not saying for sure that this is bussing. It could very well be that Kabenon is scum and he picked a seemingly weak townie to throw darts at and distract the town. However, Wesaq hasn't posted since the debate, and so I'm going to

Vote: Wesaq

. He needs to post, and this is the best way I can think of to make him do so.

[Rigel]

It is stated at the beginning of the thread that there is no vigilante. The only killing roles that are in this game are the Mafia, and the Serial Killer.

We interrupt this program for a breaking news bulletin: In the confusion of moving the role PMs from the first to the second post, it appears a role PM was eaten by the Internet.

In this, as in all "New C9" games, there is either 0 or 1 Vigilante. My apologies for any confusion. We now return you to your regularly scheduled program.

Oops. Sorry about that. I'm not specifically familiar with the New C9 format, I was just working off of the rules listed at the beginning of the game.

As for your latest post, Kabenon, this doesn't fly. There is no reason that Wesaq should have gone this long without a replacement or prodding. You choosing not to put any pressure or attention upon him may be directly related to why this has thus far not occurred. Whether or not this is because you are scum is something I haven't fully determined yet, but I'm leaning towards scum at this point.

FOS: Kabenon007

[Rigel]

That is idiotic Rigel. The only reason Wesaq isn't here is because he chooses not to be or because he cannot. My not putting pressure on him does not make him more inclined to lurk. You are grasping at straws and I believe you were expecting more people to start ganging up on me, so you seized the first opportunity you could find to get on board and be suspcious of me.

unvote, vote:Rigel

If I was going to "seize the first opportunity I could find to get on board", I would have simply posted my suspicions of Wesaq and voted for you right off the bat. Doing so now is quite tempting. However, I feel that Wesaq has been ignored for long enough, and so I feel he needs to be drawn out. I'm not for sure saying that you and Wesaq are scumpartners. But if I was scum, and I was under suspicion on Day 1 but got ignored on Day 2, I'd make sure I stayed ignored. That doesn't automatically make you scum, but it does make you partially responsible for Wesaq's ability to lurk. Those aren't the same thing.

@Shteven: I honestly don't know why I didn't pick out SSF's post. I noted it, but for some reason, it didn't seem as glaring as yours. The only thing I can think of is that you specifically mentioned the Vig, which caught my eye, whereas SSF's didn't. However, since this whole thing was a simple misunderstanding on my part b/c of my inexperience with the game roles. When I read the opening pages, there was no mention of the Vigilante; if there was a mentioning of it in the sign-up thread, I obviously didn't see that.

[Rigel]

Okay, this Kabenon thing got completely out of control. I think it's pretty obvious that at least one scum is on the Kabenon wagon by this point; statistics and common sense tell us that. I'm guessing there's probably one who's not on the wagon as well.

I'm not sure what to think about this. On the one hand, I do feel that Kabenon is scummy, if not flat out scum. His play today has been simply bad, what with his comments to Shteven on what townies should and should not think, his offhand JDodge comment, etc. However, the speed at which his lynch is getting pushed is slightly worrying me. However, I'm willing to believe it's just lynch-happy town for the time being, since I don't have any specific evidence otherwise.

One quick thing I noticed. I don't feel like Justin Playfair is 'masterminding' Kabenon's lynch at all. If anything, it's people like vollkan and oman, who are taking a much more active stance against him. So he's got well-thought-out posts. That doesn't make him an evil Kabenon-slaying mastermind.

There have been two people who have been pushing this idea of Justin-as-mastermind: LaptopGun and Shteven. I'm suspecting that one of you, at least, is scum, especially if Kabenon is revealed to be town. If Kabenon is town, you have a scapegoat to blame on Day 3. Also, neither of you are voting for Kabenon at all, which could give you a bit of an "I told you so" edge if Kabenon turns up scum.

Justin himself has just put the spotlight on Shteven in regards to this discrepancy, but I thought that I would call it to light for LaptopGun as well. I don't understand why either of you feel that Justin is running this Kabenon lynch, nor do I understand why LaptopGun has not yet voted for Kabenon, despite suspicions that you have stated numerous times throughout the game. So, LG, if you could address this, I'd appreciate it; hopefully before Kabenon gets lynched.

I'm not going to hammer Kabenon, because I want to get this last issue addressed, but I know that it's only a matter of time, even if he happens to be town.

[Rigel]

Vote: MelodyMan23

You were inactive yesterday, your predecessor was inactive before you, and the both of you looked scummy as a result. I want to know what you think about the game thus far, especially the Kabenon wagon and the events of Night 2. We're down 6 townies, including the cop, out of 16. There are now 13 players and 3 mafiosos remaining, thus there is a 3/13 chance that you are not pro-town, and you're not making the odds any better.

As for the events of the night, I think that we should take Jesse's claim of LG as innocent at face value for the time being. Granted, his cop claim isn't the most secure claim ever, but given the way he cracked under pressure on Day 1, I'm going to continue to operate under the assumption that he is speaking the truth for now. That said, I'm not taking him or LG off my list of suspects, they're just getting more of the benefit of the doubt for now.

I think what we as townsfolk need to do is review all of Justin's posts and find out who he was hunting down as scum. It's within reason that he might have gotten lucky and found scum at least once, and so if he did, he's more likely to have criticized that person during the day. Thus, looking back at who he thought was scum may lead us to scum.

In addition, I want to say that I agree with MadCrawdad--I don't like Spacecase's flip-floppiness that he brought up. However, I don't want to pass judgment solely on this isolated incident, so I'm going to review Spacecase's other posts as well as Justin's. Just wanted to make that general statement first, however.

[Rigel]

In reading over Spacecase's posts, I'm noticing that he hasn't really put forth any sort of analysis of the game to any degree. He posts every couple of days so that he stays active, but he really doesn't say anything when he does so. In fact, the majority of his posts are either questions that don't help us or statements that don't help us. Not to mention the matter of his opinion-shift on Day 2, right before the Kabenon lynch. His only votes all game have been on Wesaq (MelodyMan23) and Kabenon, and we all saw how the Kabenon lynch went.

I feel that, even if Spacecase is pro-town, he needs to put forth what he thinks about the game, not just responding to what people ask him. He needs to be active, not passive in his play. So

FOS:Spacecase

for the time being--but remember that the only reason it's not a vote is because you've actually bothered to show up on Day 3, unlike MelodyMan23.

Come to think of it, Phate and The Fonz haven't shown up yet today either. Is it too early to ask for a prodding of them? I hate to be pushy, but day has been going on for a few days now.

[Rigel]

Spacecase hasn't been defending himself well when he is here, and hasn't been here at all since Saturday. Methinks a vote is in order.

Vote: Spacecase
FOS: MelodyMan23

That last is just so that the latter isn't ignored in my vote changing. I still think that MelodyMan23 needs to answer for his actions (or lack thereof), but Spacecase has much more evidence against him than inactivity.

[Rigel]

Melodyman made 2 posts in the entire time he was here. One was a vote, and one was his weak explanation of why he voted the way he did, which basically involved following Justin because he "had to vote". This was on February 7 and 8. This is also after his predecessor, Wesaq, posted a total of 4 times. Melodyman has also not posted all Day. So the case is based on his complete lack of doing anything on his part, and his predecessor's part, and potentially his successor's part, at this rate.

I would prefer you addressed the case on yourself at this point, however, not the case on Melodyman/dahill.

[Rigel]

I'm confused as to why discussion has swayed from our primary suspects at the moment, but I don't have time to dwell on it as I am about to leave on a trip for the next few days. I will be back on Wednesday, and I will analyze the situation better at that time.

[Rigel]

All right, I'm finally back, and I'm ready to review what has gone on in my absence. Thus far, nothing has occurred to sway my opinion regarding Spacecase. I still think that his actions at the end of Day 2 are scummy, and none of his explanations thus far have been particularly explanatory regarding his flip-flopping.

As for people who haven't been discussed thus far who I feel are scummy, I think that the most obvious one is Wesaq/Melody Man/Dahill. Over the course of 3 days, the three of them as a whole have contributed almost nothing, and I am one of the few people who has pointed this out. Dahill, I'd much rather hear your opinions on the game than you asking other people for theirs. It may be a 20+ page game, but that's no excuse. You knew what you were getting into when you decided to replace, so if you weren't up to 20 pages of reading, you shouldn't have replaced in.

There's only one other thing that I noticed. In a quick review of the thread, I noticed that I made a post earlier stating that if Justin Playfair was found to be dead and town, that either LG or Shteven was likely to be scum for pushing a Justin-as-Mastermind-of-Kabenon's Demise theory. LG's innocence has been stated by Jesse/Cipher, who is incredibly likely to be pro-town, and thus he is likely to be pro-town as well. As such, there is the possibility that Shteven is scum. However, my earlier statement was just a random thought, nothing concrete, and nothing that Shteven has done recently has seemed overly scummy to me. However, I may take a look back to review his overall behavior, just to be safe.

[Rigel]

Phate: scummy, didn't know cipher claimed cop, also a "Bizarro Spacecase" as Cipher put it, changed opinion quickly on kab as well just like spacecase
(possible scumbuddies?)

Umm...you didn't appear to know that Cipher had claimed cop either...

also it was pretty scummy for jesse to claim cop and not be one, but on the other hand justin never confronted him

Still... Fos: Jesse

If his not knowing that Cipher is a cop is scummy, then so is you not knowing that Jesse is a cop.

[Rigel]

I'm not really sure what we're doing here. Nothing has really happened since my last post, save a lot of talk and not a lot of answers. Spacecase still hasn't given a reason for switching to vote for Kabenon, but it doesn't look like he even has one. Thus, I still feel comfortable with voting for him at this time.

Spacecase, I would like you to answer me one question: aside from the "because I am town" argument, can you give me any solid reason why I should be voting for someone else at this given moment? Or better yet, who do you think is scummy? All your posts today have been about your reason for voting Kab, and I already think that's scummy. But you haven't done anything but defend yourself, and I want to know if you have any actual opinions regarding the game thus far.

[Rigel]

No one appears to be here to read this, but I am going to be on vacation starting tomorrow, for a week. During that time, I won't be able to access the forum, but I'm not thinking that a heck of a lot is going to change, so I'm going to leave my vote on Spacecase regardless. I honestly can't believe Spacecase hasn't claimed yet, which is supporting my suspicions of his scumminess--he doesn't have to make up a fake claim until he's asked, and this gives him more time to do so.

At any rate, I won't be here, so I am assuming that I will come back to either Night 3 or early Day 4, if only because the mod will probably end up deadlining the game at this rate.

[Rigel]

I'm not really sure what to say at this point. I was under the impression before I left for vacation that the Spacecase case was a done deal. Clearly, I was wrong. I'm still in favor of a Spacecase lynch--the lack of voters on his wagon isn't an automatic towntell for me; it makes me think more of the opposite, in fact. I don't like the way in which the wagon slowed down, especially this post of Oman's.

Wagon slowing.

Makes me wonder.

I might unvote.

It just doesn't sit right with me. What he is suggesting is clear: the slowing wagon makes him think that Spacecase is town and so he might unvote. But he never comes out and says this. Instead, he makes a series of three vague statements that imply this to make the town follow the train of thought. That seems much more scummy than the slowing of the wagon in general.

FOS: Oman

As for the Spacecase wagon in general, I think that the best statement regarding it thus far has been made by Farside:

No, boredom.

QFT.
I've read through. I stated my second option. I'm not sure what else you want me to say.

No one really stands out as scum and at this point I think knowing for sure Spacecase's alignment may help out for the next day. I'm sure this will be crap reasoning to some, but look at it this way. If spacecase is scum we should look at who held up the wagon and was trying to get someone else to look scummie. If spacecase is not scum we look at everyone who jumped on the wagon early and easily.

Some people may not like my idea, but really where have we really gotten on day 2 thus far that hasn't been said to death?

(Bolding is mine)

In all honesty, we're not going to get any guarantees at this point in the game. If there was another cop, they'd have counter-claimed by now. So all we have to go on alignment-wise is who dies and whatever Cypher says. So why are we dilly-dallying over who dies? Obviously, the object is to get rid of scum, but we're not at LoL yet. There are still 9 or 10 townies left in the game. If getting rid of one townie helps us to find one or more scum, we're still coming out ahead.

---

I really don't like the Phate wagon in general. Granted, he wasn't really posting much, but I don't really see how that's inherently scummy. Anti-town, certainly, but not automatically scummy. However, people have jumped on the wagon...and by people, I suspect scum.

---

I still don't trust LG. I know there is a confirmed cop's innocent on him, but we also have a Godfather in this game. I've pointed out a few scummy things that LG has done throughout the game, and I don't feel as if he's helping town all that much. After all, he's the first to cast suspicion on Phate, leading to the Phate-wagon that breaks up the Spacecase-wagon. He's also been pushing some other theories on the town, such as the Justin Playfair-as-mastermind theory back on Day 2.

In looking at some of LG's posts regarding Spacecase's Vanilla claim, I am increasingly worried about his potential Godfather status. As soon as Spacecase claims, LG is adamantly and irrationally convinced of his innocence. If Spacecase is lynched and found to be scum, I think that LG may be our Godfather. It's not a for sure statement and I'm definitely not in favor of immediately pushing for his lynch on Day 4. But it'll be something to think about, and all the more reason why we should lynch Spacecase.

---

Spacecase, I don't believe that you ever addressed this question I posed to you on the 21st.

Spacecase, I would like you to answer me one question: aside from the "because I am town" argument, can you give me any solid reason why I should be voting for someone else at this given moment? Or better yet, who do you think is scummy? All your posts today have been about your reason for voting Kab, and I already think that's scummy. But you haven't done anything but defend yourself, and I want to know if you have any actual opinions regarding the game thus far.

As long as you're still alive, could you do me a favor and address that now?

---

Honestly, at this point, the only person that I could justify voting for other than Spacecase is Dahill. His lack of ability to help the town, along with the similar lack of assistance from his predecessors, is enough to make me almost believe that he's got a post restriction that keeps him from posting anything helpful. However, this is pretty much the only place that I'm likely to go from a Spacecase lynch at the moment.

After all, this is the person who jumped over to the Phate wagon just because two other people jumped over to it, one of whom is the "confirmed townie" LG. Dahill and his predecessors don't appear to be playing from a very enlightened perspective; i.e: they're playing like newbie scum or really bad newbie town.

---

In the end, I guess what I basically want to say is that we should, and likely need to lynch Spacecase today. Regardless of whether or not you believe he is scum. Spacecase's lynch will do two things. It will reveal his alignment, allowing us to further study his lynch in terms of that, and will progress us to Night, where Cypher can investigate someone else. Yes, it will also allow scum and the possible SK to act, but we've still got a lot of townies out there. I think we can make a potentially dangerous strategic play for one night.

[Rigel]

Okay, well then, did you read the part where I said that whether or not Spacecase is scum, he should be lynched today regardless? I don't think that going out on a limb and casting a single vote on Farside is very pro-town at this point.

[Rigel]

Wow. I definitely did not expect that reaction.

I don't know exactly why I'm getting jumped on for this. For one thing, it's not like I arbitrarily picked SC at random to vote for. I believe that SC is very likely to be scum. Maybe my push for votes for him was a bit aggressive, especially the one I addressed at LML, but I'm not planning on making this strategy a habit. However, at the time, it seemed like a good idea to throw out there.

On the other hand, it did bring up some stuff I can discuss...

Okay, well then, did you read the part where I said that whether or not Spacecase is scum, he should be lynched today regardless? I don't think that going out on a limb and casting a single vote on Farside is very pro-town at this point.

I might have missed that post, can you reference it for me?

Has the game landscape changed so much in the 5 months I was gone?

Me placing a vote on Farside (and game rationale for it), got the response of

Okay, well then, did you read the part where I said that whether or not Spacecase is scum, he should be lynched today regardless? I don't think that going out on a limb and casting a single vote on Farside is very pro-town at this point.

I think your overt protection of farside is noted. I think, my friends, we have a link.

Unvote: Farside, but FoS: Farside

--> Linkage between Rigel and Farside.

Vote: Rigel

Okay, I don't like this at all. In the first post, LML is merely asking for the post where I suggested we lynch Spacecase and analyze his lynch afterwards. In the second, he's out for my blood. What happened in between? MadCrawdad and The Fonz started accusing me. Note also that neither MadCrawdad nor The Fonz voted for me--but LML did. I'd like to know what precisely was so compelling about my post the second time you read it that made you want to vote for me, LML, or, perhaps more accurately, what was so compelling about MadCrawdad and The Fonz's posts.

@MadCrawdad: I don't feel that you're taking the post that you are quoting in the context of my argument. I'm not saying that we should lynch any player regardless of alignment. I'm saying that we should lynch a scummy player who isn't contributing to the game for the sake of the town as a whole. I also want to point out that, with further reading of LML's posts, his accusations on farside aren't all that damning. They are worth noting, but I don't honestly feel as if he put forth enough evidence to have justified a vote for him at this point. However, the fact that he did accuse farside personally had nothing to do with my response. If he had voted for anyone else without a vote, I would have likely had the same response.

As for who would be interesting to look at once SC's alignment is revealed; I think that if SC is scum, as I believe, the people to look at are those who either didn't vote for him, voted late, or voted after being dead set on voting for someone else. Conversely, if he is revealed to be town, I would look at those most interested in getting him lynched, and those who were against his lynch would get a smidgen less critiqued. This would all be hinging, of course, on whatever happened overnight.

Also, I'd be willing to look at the Kabenon lynch, since you seem insistent upon it. I'll try to devote some time to it over the next few days and post what I find later on.

I find it interesting that I am being looked at for this statement and Phate is being lumped in with me, but Shteven, who openly agreed with my original post, has no suspicion thrown upon him. I think the problem is that no one bothered to link the post I directly referenced in the short post that keeps being brought up. Out of the blue, my short post is scummy, yes. But the rationalization I made in the original post clarifies it and makes it a more viable option.

@Vollkan: I agree with your post, except for two things. One is that I know that I am not scum, which none of you will believe but I know to be true. The second is that I am only being called out for this one particular 'mistake', whereas Spacecase has had an entire case leveled against him.

@The Fonz: Your post makes sense. I hadn't really thought the situation out far enough to reach this point, but you are correct. My plan does leave scum an escape to vote Spacecase w/o any real fear of repercussions. That said, I retract my previous statement, but I'm retaining my vote on Spacecase because I still find him to be scummy.

@Spacecase: When you are in danger of becoming lynched, the best thing to do is not make posts that help the town in no way, shape or form. And you still have continued to ignore the question that I posed earlier. I'll post it again in case you forgot what it was.

Spacecase, I would like you to answer me one question: aside from the "because I am town" argument, can you give me any solid reason why I should be voting for someone else at this given moment? Or better yet, who do you think is scummy? All your posts today have been about your reason for voting Kab, and I already think that's scummy. But you haven't done anything but defend yourself, and I want to know if you have any actual opinions regarding the game thus far.

[Rigel]

Sorry about my absence. I've been having computer problems, and as such, I wasn't able to get online for the past week. However, I'm now back, and ready to respond to questions asked in my absence.

---

I felt you were defending Farside in a way that looked incredibly odd... almost like one that has knowledge of Farside's role... the only way you can have that information is if you're a cop or scum. Obviously, with 1 cop dead and another claimed, you can't claim an information role.

In what way was my "defense" of Farside revealing that I had any knowledge of Farside's role? I don't see that reasoning anywhere else in your posts.

I also do not know, Rigel, if you thought I was some newbie who could be railroaded. Holy cow. Exactly the opposite. Ask Oman.

I'm not sure where you'd get this impression either. You've been on the site for what appears to be 3 years, and I've had no prior games with you to suggest that you had been absent for some of those years, if such a thing occurred. I makes me think that you're reaching for evidence against me, but I might be a bit trigger-happy on that judgment just because you so suddenly jumped on me a few pages before.

---

Lastly, saying that no suspicion has been cast on Shteven is wrong. Check back a few posts, and you'll see that I called him on it. Probably more because he's now denying that he ever agreed.

I was aware of this, actually, but I saw it after I posted my long post. I never got a chance to mention it until now though.

As for your big post, I already told you what my "real thought on Kab" was at the time.

I'm not sure what to think about this.

I was on the fence; I could see both sides of the issue. I didn't vote Kab, but I didn't want to; I wanted to address some issues yet before the end of the day. However, I see exactly what you mean regarding my quote in blue. However, there is a simple explanation for this: I screwed up. I completely misread my post regarding the Justin-as-Mastermind theory when I referenced it, or I typed in Justin Playfair instead of Kabenon in the critical point. I'm thinking the second one, but the first option is plausible as well. However, seeing as how both of them did die and turn up town, it's something worth looking into.

---

I don't like the way Shteven is trying to backpedal his way out of the situation he has found himself in. He agrees with my point, it seems, but the fact that he appears to be now attempting to deny that he ever said such a thing is making me wonder two things: if he was trying to buddy up to me and is now getting caught in the backlash, and if my point is actually a viable one. Seeing as how Shteven is now attempting to escape suspicion, I'm beginning to grow less certain about Spacecase. Not enough to unvote him at this point, but I am keeping an eye on Shteven now.

FOS: Shteven

The fact of the matter is, Shteven, whether or not you actually agreed with my point, you clearly read it, because you were much too specific to have done otherwise. You've been caught in your lie by multiple people, so there's no point in trying to weasel out of it. Now, whether your play is scummy because you're scum or in spite of the fact that you're town is something that I haven't quite determined.

In addition, could you specify which of my arguments from post 704 you disagree with? In your post, immediately after mine, you had no negative points. Subsequently, you were against my opinion on Spacecase because you were taking flak for agreeing with it. So what else don't you like about my post 704? If anything?

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LaptopGun, what questions of MadCrawdad am I avoiding? If you mean those that I am answering now, that's one thing. But I don't recall ignoring any questions of his, and I would be willing to answer any that I have missed.

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In response to Phate's claim: I wasn't all that set on lynching Phate before, and now I'm definitely not throwing a vote on him at this point. I'm not accepting his claim as truth, obviously, but, like everyone else, I'm not voting a claimed cop with better suspects out there.

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All in all, not much has changed. I'd really appreciate it if SC would show up, but I'm not holding my breath. However, I will say that, barring a Spacecase lynch, my second choice would be Shteven. However, in a choice between the two, it's got to be Spacecase.