Large Normal 212: Korts' Geriatrics - Game Over @1831

[Lycanfire]

Hello you dandelion harvesting derrieres. You're stuck in my hell now.

[Lycanfire]

/confirming that I read my PM apparently we have to do this in thread now

[Lycanfire]

Welcome Lycan. Curious why you chose to replace into this game given your obvious disdain for the Geriatric player pool from the Geriatric discussion thread and looking forward to seeing your contributions given you are the leading wagon. Also need to check back on Sypro Mafia I think.

When have I spoken poorly about Geriatrics?

What's with your fascination with Spyro Mafia? Did part of your ego die back in Mini Normal 1890?

How much of the game had you read when you made this post?

Didn't get any further than the player list.

--

I take a long time to do my magic. Anyone have better questions while I catch up?

[Lycanfire]

where i'm at: end of page 6

@Axel: Pine budding in with Chamber seems to be a re-occurring theme. What's your read on the Chamber slot?

@Eddie Cane: Have you called anybody dogshit yet?

@Moi: How do you feel about OM defining Eddie Cane as lynchbait and encouraging Petro to make something of themselves?

@Roflcopter: You wanted no business in OM or Eddie in 143. What about Axel interested you so much that you'd sit on the vote for +/- 80 posts?

@Tammy: I'd ask Chamber what the fuck he's doing for half of his posts. If you want to play get in the mind of your pred I'm game~

@Woofbringer: Did you ask Pine to marry you just to make Moi jealous?

People I'm hard tring~

Hito made a roundabout post 124 that "leads back to zero". It reads like Hito had a good point and decided to keep talking until he discredited himself, which is something that would come from town opposed to a scumbutt that gets off on having authority.

OM. The gambit is good. He's the most sociable player on the list so far interacting with everybody besides KMD and Cooldog, and I feel like he's pushing people in the right places./ I'm only seeing good intent from him so far.

People I'm hard sring~

Chamber dropped a shitpost in 129 and Pine made the very reasonable reply afterwards... in 130.

cough

sorry if I leave it like that my point will be lost on people

Pine interfered with Chamber's push on Eddie. Make your good points™ all you like, I'll probably roll my eyes onto my touchpad. What shooting it down immediately does is remove any utility his poorly intended question had. Why'd you break up the fight Pine? Chiarire.

VOTE: Pine

[Lycanfire]

Happy to have you here Ginngie.

The game becomes a slog, but eventually Kison says something to that effect and people start asking for people to cut out the walls. If someone tells you to RTFT just ignore them. The post count is a lie.

Let me know of your Chamber read when you hit his replace out.

[Lycanfire]

Here is what I am referring to

I think his is pretty much the textbook definition of talking poorly about the Geriatric community.

This was actually a jab at MU/kids these days saying MU have stronger towns. I got Mulch banned, praise me god damnit.

I wouldn’t say it is a fascination as much as the most recent game we were both in and I don’t remember what alignment you were. So I wanted to refresh my memory of how you played and see if you were Town there or not. For example I will need to see if you were this over-reactive in that game.

You referenced Spyro in Mini Normal 1890 to let everyone know just how shitty at town you think I was (something about "strapping myself to vifam somebody who intentionally harms their towngame to help their scumgame") and how my reads were shit. Something you talked yourself into in Mini Normal 1890 because you simply wanted that to be true. Let's not talk Spyro any more.

I make everyone jealous with my hot dog buns. If you know what I mean

I suppose what I meant to say is simultaneously scumreading Moi and calling him a friend right afterward read as inflammatory and I was hoping to see your read on him on the live thread.

Your read here in 469 is a lot like 169. Actually, both of you are very happy to attack each other on word choice alone. Tone is bunk unless there's a motive behind somebody speaking the way they have. If someone is scum, they naturally have intent to do harm. We are exactly +300 posts from then to live. Can you frame anything Moi has said as being simply morally wrong?

Whats been up with you Lycan? Seems people don't really like your slot so much.
What your thoughts on people scumreading it?

I have few ideas of who is scumreading my slot and even fewer ideas as for why. I'd guess it's a continuation of early game of Hitogorishi "associative with Josh/Pine" and OM's "independent read on 99 being some fenceshit"/Hito later agreeing with that. I think the entirety of 99 were not awful positions to have (I disliked PJ's early shade of the PGO claim simply because consensus is good, if you're going to break from consensus, break hard).

TL's Chamber read here led to his 105 which poked at Chamber to correct his behavior. I have the 103-105 exchange noted down as "103 chamber being factitious and borrowing charisma is rarely good spirited. first interaction with TL" and "105 TL anti-meta freak vs meta-freak. yeah, i'm not in tywin's head here unless he's trying to prompt some amazingly townie post out of chamber about why meta is a god and he is a shepard." Basically, TL got set off just like I did by 103 and baited Chamber into proving his worth instead of talking big. Considering how mechanical Chamber is, the lowkey shit stirring TL did here was actually well intentioned.

From what I read Chamber gave himself enough space to hit the gas at will, but broke down after his slapfight with OM making a series of nonsense posts that I'll detail after an important question.

Are you scumreading both Chamber and Pine? Where do you believe that Pine has interfered with Chamber's push?

Sure, I read it as S+S (128-130). Just looking at the call from TL onto Chamber and Chamber's immediate need to justify his work, only to be immediately shot down by Pine is suspect. We don't have the same Chamber with us after this exchange, in fact he will leave soon after.

>150 chamber says he isn't trying to get people to vote for eddie, while voting eddie. then why are you voting eddie?
>157 chamber hasn't properly metadived eddie... proceeds to explain how they have metadove eddie. comes to a conclusion that matches their vote, but refuses to be definite or like in 150, get people to vote eddie.

And smacked the brake pedal hard 12 hours after his post on Eddie and requested replacement.

breaking here to praise the best siege weapon, the trebuchet.

[Lycanfire]

On Axelrod

I have lukewarm feelings about the slot because he scumread both Chamber and Pine. My question to him was a lead off to put how he rationalized the two slots alignments for when I made my next post. I didn't get a response.

I could see him as scum with somebody like insanity from interactions, but I don't like the reasoning:

so ask yourselves, what the hell is axel's vote doing on pine at this point? there has never been momentum against pine, axel has done little to nothing to build any momentum against pine, while there has in fact been momentum against the tywin slot and against kmd. the answer is that both tywin and kmd are mislynches waiting to happen, and pine is axel's scumbuddy who he has no interest in actually seeing lynched, he's just building that sweet sweet distance.

Roflcopter's 588 can be summed as "TL and Kmd are town, [he] did other things while keeping his vote on Pine".

My feelings on this amount to "if I can come up with much better reasons to suspect Axelrod, should I trust you're working in good faith?"

-Straight-up I didn't like him calling insanity a he while defending insanity.
-I feel like Axel performed mental gymnastics trying to suspect OM's reluctance to townread Chamber for making a second vote. Chamber committed the cardinal sin of following into the trash heap tell I got from Wickedestjr in Perpetual Mylo III. I don't see anything inconsistent in OM's refusal to townread a second vote.
-"Hating when townies lie" could be a slip, or may have been looking for a reason to vote Cooldog in the future. I'd say they wouldn't be partners, but nothing came of it.
-I disliked the amount of words he used to read OM as "null". He's said a lot about and to OM already at this point, and I'd expect him to further his read instead of hold his chin and slowly say "null".

What I like

-The early wagonomics of Eddie Cane is something I liked. This is what launched us out of RVS, and I think a scumpartner doesn't put attention on this wagon again.
-He liked Eddie's reasoning for voting Kmd. As being on Josh's team in Team Mafia I know how he strongly he feels when people act differently from how he expects (LLD) or exactly how he expects them to (Ranmaru). Basically, I don't think they're aligned, but despite playing a dangerous game by touching the jokewagon matter he's removing morale for a continued wagon.
-I like the pressure he put on Moi. The misrep was pretty easy to see, but the "do you know his main?" bit was a poke I really liked because things feel personal between OM-Moi.

Basically: the things he was doing from early game to now had positive effects.

Sure: his interactions with Insanity are some kinds of awful. Insanity encourages TL's suspicion of Axel|Chamber|PJ in her post 112, and in 115 Axel begins to go hard on Chamber. Later, Insanity scrutinizes Axel in 113 which Hitogorishi points out in 124 saying the shade going Axel's way is best combined with a vote.

Roflcopter

With the above in mind, do you think it's as simple as a team of {Axel, Insanity, OM, Pine}? Can you give a more up to date read on OM?

Neddie

You said Axel and Insanity are both town. How'd you get there? You continually rate Insanity high in your readslists but all I see are pings in 156. Show me the way!

Moi

I'll give you a spicy take on Kmd when I catch up. Can you tell me your opinion on Axel's 117?

Pine

This is still the best vote today or what I would say if he didn't replace out. I never received an explanation on why he interfered with Chamber, and he definitely could have explained his push rather than ask Moi who he should vote.

Insanity

Why does it trouble you that I find 129+130 to be a S+S interaction? Yes, it's true that scum have no reason to stop a buddy's push, but the sheer fact of the matter is that Chamber left himself wide open with, IMO, an awful post 129 and Pine called him out way too early. I need to justify that somehow. If it were SvT, doesn't Pine run the risk of getting called by Chamber himself? This didn't happen- Chamber's rebuttal, 138 is

remarkably tame

. He had a chance of going with my approach, "why do you deny the utility of the responses I'd get to this/why are you interfering at all". Instead he drops him as a townread and projects that Pine is a

better player than he lets on

.

I despise demands like that. The burden of proof for meta demands is on the accuser.

1: this post is awful. You are no longer top town read (see, no credence).

2: You assume this is some backhanded attack against him. He has a better knowledge of his history than I do, if he can provide the counter example why wouldn't I want to see it?

Chamber then ran a slow churn of demotivation until he replaced out. That's indicative of somebody that wanted to play the game and had a teammate dick around to score lylo points.

Tammy

What are your thoughts on 67?

[Lycanfire]

Insanity because Eddie Cane

This is where I was before:

Town

Eddie Cane
Tammy/Chamber, PJ
Everyone Else
Pine
MOI

Scum

Where I stand now:

Town:

Eddie Cane, Old Man
PJ, Tammy
Cooldog
Everyone Else
Tywin
Pine, MOI

Scum

[Lycanfire]

One thing I've noted in Lycan's scum play is that he can actually plan a lot and decide what moves to make in his head (via discussing it within a PT), but following through with his plan doesn't really happen. He kinda just sits there in the middle of the river as things go past him.

Stop telling everyone that I'm good at scum. I have a 0% winrate as scum. All this shit does is make people doubt me for no reason. You did this in Restrictive Mafia and distracted me from scum.

Ginngie: when you read up to 92 and voted Chamber, why'd you do it?

[Lycanfire]

Tell me your read on Tammy's slot when you do your Axel catchup please.

[Lycanfire]

Stop telling everyone that I'm good at scum. I have a 0% winrate as scum. All this shit does is make people doubt me for no reason. You did this in Restrictive Mafia and distracted me from scum.

Ginngie: when you read up to 92 and voted Chamber, why'd you do it?

I literally said you plan things out but you don't follow through

meaning you know what to do

but don't do it

meaning the actual work you put in the thread

isn't there.

Get it?

LAos I think I voted Chamber because old man something case

am drunk pos maybe out of order

Stop calling me bad at scum it hurts my feelings.

[Lycanfire]

Hey look it's

this shit

again

[Lycanfire]

I have two more posts too.

VOTE: Ginngie

Shadoweh pretended to be drunk in Team Mafia and was scum. I called her on it. Currently a flawless tell.

[Lycanfire]

This is the least fun flaming piece of shit I've ever taken part in.

1) WHY THE FUCK AM I TOLD TO READ THE THREAD EVERY TIME I TRY TO CONTRIBUTE?

2) Why the fuck am I townreading this?

Where are all these "oh but it's already been explained" posts

because guess what

i read up to post 299. taking notes. scoring interactions. who is focusing on who. that's longer than i wanted to actually, because kmd/cooldog were near blank until 270-271 and i had data that was worthless up until then.

i kept going. taking notes from my replace in and from where i was in the thread. these answers never materialized.

Fuck you Moi.

Fuck you Hito.

Fuck you Josh.

I started out trying to contribute, only to be tossed aside by one of the people I townread the most, tunneled on by another person I townread. Who was being tunneled on by someone that can't do anything better beyond tunnel an IC claim and tell me to read the thread. As for who Josh pushes at any given time, I haven't a fucking clue considering he went from shading Hitogorishi to becoming best buds with him.

I spent more time thinking about trying to read this game than I spent actually reading it. I kept being promised answers that never appeared. Here's a hint to not being horseshit town: when you see something scummy, you don't keep reading and trying to sort the person. You put noose around their neck because they legitimately have to die.

The more information you have, the more likely you are to gain a shit read.

I can give numerous examples of how I picked a player out early game doing scummy things as scum and tunnel them. Even worse is getting talked out of it. Do I tunnel towns too? Not nearly as often. Towns town up, scums are scum.

453 Hito "How much of the game had you read when you made this post?"

466 Moi "As to your question to me – I’m going to defer til you actually catch up in the game because the direct question you asked was answered long ago."

505 Hito "Lycan, why would you cast a vote mid-catchup when it was contingent on Pine's answer to a question that might have been answered already?"

703 Josh "Hurry up and catch up properly loser I've explained it at least a bit. "

718 Hito "Lycan, what exactly is your catchup process? It looks like you're still far back because all of the post numbers you cite are pretty low."

Putting on the blinders instead of pausing for a moment to humor me re: my Pine read is proof that there was never any morale for a lynch to land there.

READ THIS POST. If there's any fishy feelings about why my lynch isn't go through (hito sitting his ass on it for no reason, ignoring everything i say) and why Axel is getting votes, look at this in reply to Axel:

It's one thing to be uncertain enough that you're not taking a strong stance D1. That happens sometimes. But you're ALSO not use your vote as a tool to pressure, build consensus, etc.

You're just hanging out on Pine waiting for - what?

Someone else to take up the case you yourself are not "gung-ho" about, gather up a bloc, and take it home? Because otherwise, what is your vote

doing

? In preview-edit I can actually say the same thing about Eddie 540 - I don't like otherwise-engaged players using a long time until deadline as an excuse to cast these dead votes, because just punting until deadline scramble lowers the useful information we get throughout the day and lets people do deadline flops with these low-accountabiltiy asterisks of "well gee, I don't like any of these options, it's a real darn tootin shame that none of the options I like are on the table".

Or maybe to phrase it otherwise, I think it's the goal of town to ensure the lynch is on scum and that they're on it. Would you agree?

Or this remarkably similar post from Moi

Magna, where should my vote be?

We need to be moving towards a lynch. I mean there is time but this isn't a spam-fest game where people put 10 pages on in 3 hours and move their votes every 3 posts.

Look at Lycan / Hito / Axel for me and move wherever you feel is most likely to hit scum. I mean I think Hito is a bad, bad lynch but I think he's actually the leading wagon right now and I think consolidation will tell us something whenever we know more about the alignments of those involved.

Also I really want you to look at KMD separately but I know I'm not getting that lynch today.

I wouldn't expect Moi to tell Pine to self vote here, but I thought TL was an awful lynch and worth

ignoring

until OM validates their claim because of ~~reasons~~? Moi flat out rules out Hito, but whaddaya know

Also Rofl is still Town and 633 reaffirms that for me. And Eddie’s vote for him at 604 stinks.

If shit stinks why don't you vote it?

Also if the Lycan slot is Town I pretty much think 569 should not be overlooked.

LEtS lYNcH KmD TOmORrOw

I can see this as a coordinated effort to rile me up. Frankly I don't know of Pine's experience with me as town. We had a short lived scumgame together that he flaked out on D1. I can see Josh worried enough about me, Moi too to not only go out of their way to ignore my reads, but to make me perceived like a useless, non-productive part of the town. And that's what I exactly was while I was townreading Hitogorishi, until I realized that if I personally feel so bad going through the same nonsense about confirmations, Eddie's wagon, OM's avatar and claim, fire's self imposed post restriction, whether axel vote parking, or kmd vote parking is scummy.

This game has been a game of scum musical chairs.

Everything is brought up in a manner that doesn't actually lead anywhere, but hey,

we need a flip!

Look at PJ's ISO. This is the ISO of a townie that got played.

I have read through Pine's posts multiple times now, and I am legitimately not seeing it. He has been blindly defending you from pushes and has attacked those who attacked you (and invited you to vote chamber with him). It is no surprise he does not find the confirmation pushes to have any merit, since that would just make himself look bad. He first asked you to "simmer down," which was then later followed by Post #144, which reads as a second not-so-subtle attempt to request that you be less adversarial. This isn't sorting; this is advising.

I don't remember why I thought that. Looking back Pine's early stuff still doesn't look scummy to me. He's defending someone he knows is competent from stupid bullshit such as not adding a winkie face to a joke.

But Lycan that data! Valid up to post 299 Hito has no interactions with Pine. Pine has no interactions with Hito. Moi-Pine and Moi-Josh have some of the highest interactions in the game. Look at the interactions with these four and tell me I'm wrong. I think this is the best vote among them VOTE: Moi. I don't mind going back to Pine, but Pine doesn't seem to care about being voted. Cut the head off this hydra.

YES THIS IS A WALL POST. YES EVERY QUOTE IS JUST AS IMPORTANT AS THE ONE BEFORE IT. If there's two things I agree on it's that we don't need to make walls back and forth to one another about shit that has already been talked about. Also, we need a flip. Fight me.

[Lycanfire]

what if old man is some kind of powerful scum role that they just really need to have alive on night one?

This is the towniest shit in the world I can see why Pine and Moi went on it

roflcopter i have no idea who you are but don't change your style, it's great

-snip-

It's not about what you think is justified or not. You asked me why I responded differently to two similar cues. I provided my motivations, per request.

Maybe it's just as simple as I'm more patient with my friends, and I get irritated with people I perceive as being dicks.

Like you. Right now.

Ok I was wrong on this

Stop being the vanity voters and finish this day

ginngie i think you're town but you're being sucked into shit reasoning. thanks for the town case but can you vote scum that isn't axel.

[Lycanfire]

Pine has no interaction with Hito and vice versa? False.

[Lycanfire]

You're half right at least!

[Lycanfire]

1) WHY THE FUCK AM I TOLD TO READ THE THREAD EVERY TIME I TRY TO CONTRIBUTE?

Not told. Asked. It is hard to follow your process because you seemingly erratically are responding to things.

i kept going. taking notes from my replace in and from where i was in the thread. these answers never materialized.

Actually, your style should enjoy this game pace no? I know how you do your god-sorting and less posts makes it WAY more feasible.

I made it clear I was talking about Pine-Chamber and the most I got out of it was Petro asking about it, Insanity sneering at it and Ginngie making monkey faces at her for it. This is back to the point meant to be aimed at Hito in my 747 (ok I went stream of consciousness and it made more sense in my head) that the more information you take in, the more opportunities you afford to scum to talk you out of it. This game was the equivalent of a game with twice its paged just from sheer density. That's an information overload. There's a reason why I limited myself to KMD-Cooldog showing up to fill in the blanks.

Pine and Chamber both had their time in the sun, then didn't, and the best I got was "so did you read up yet?" Or in the case of Moi, flat out refusing to hear about anything I had to say about OM until I got to his claim (and somehow Moi was still tunneling when I showed up-so obviously what I had to say

was

relevant.)

Where did I shade Hito and where did I become best buds with him? I don't think I've given a strong stance on him all game. If you're talking about me, I didn't toss you to the side, I'm waiting to see what you come up with when you're done slogging through. I've been very clear about who I'm pushing as well.

542-605 has the progression that you didn't like Hito's read on Petro and you planted a giant flag in a grass saying "hey this person might be scum"?

In 505 you're scummy for how you pushed back on Petro. You two tango from 541-547 (all Hito seems to want to say on the subject) and you're #2 scum, behind me, while Hito wants to ignore me and tell me to RTFT. 547 is marked with this hilarious line. Not only are you #2 scum, but you are remarkably fair while being so!

ginngie i think you're town but you're being sucked into shit reasoning. thanks for the town case but can you vote scum that isn't axel.

sources needed

Ginngie's pred was one of the few that cared about anything I had to say, even when she was trying to hulk you like a one man army. 663 is a woke post, which I saw before. It was reminiscent of how KMD fingered Moi in 191 for starting the fire of your wagon. I voted Ginngie because people that think being drunk makes you stupid piss me off, and part of me wanted to see Ginngie make an ass of themself. Mainly though I wanted to see how Moi would digest it. He didn't. His response to Ginngie is in 701, and I feel the exact

opposite

about Ginngie's play here. Whether my vote was digested or not I don't know, but everyone ought to know that I'm worth keeping around now!

The biggest pings I have from him are his anger tbqh, I don't understand what pissed him off so much and this isn't the arrogant (in a good way) cool collectd LYcan

viewtopic.php?p=9772044#p9772044

This is a game where scum reversed the order of scum lynches (viomi->lulz a townie probably!!) hoping it would save Wickedestjr from rope on D2.

I deathtunneled a townie in this game because they refused to admit that they played into scum hands three days in a row. I correctly accused Mulch and Michaelomega of bussing the person I thought to be scum with Wicked at the start of the next day and nobody believed me (or at least Wisdom would have cared more if Sakura fucking Hana didn't replace Mulch). I get upset when scum open wolf.

I was hard but I don't think that's gonna be easy ass. what gives dilly bar

Reminder that this was supposed to be the game solving read...

[Lycanfire]

Sooooo I've read Lycan's post three times now and I still can't really follow half of what he's saying or where all this is leading. I guess he's going for interactional analysis which is okay, but I don't have a key card to decipher and I'm lost. I've been trying to parse who he's scum reading there and I'm uh just don't know well besides Pine and Magna?

Your keycard is a Pine-Magna-Hito-Eddie scumteam. Parse 747 and back to me if I make any otherworldly sense.

Hey Lycan - How do you feel about the fact that Eddie is voting you?

He's a player that tunnelfucks on people like PJ or Kmd. Those votes were consistent with how I feel like he is as a player (this player must be in some way fundamentally wrong, so I must vote). What I didn't like is his attempt to sort Hito... then vote onto me. The method is there, but the arrow went far. I don't think Josh actually believes I'm scum.

In the realm of dumb annoying tells, I actually think posting spreadsheet notes is scummy, but the last time someone did it he was town and I spent a good portion of the day pinged about it.

I timed it to see how long it would take with CTRL+F in our ISOs to prove Lycan wrong about a lack of interaction. 2 minutes, 4 seconds to assemble all of these quotes dismissing the notion that Hito and I have been ignoring one another. It's to the point where I stopped quoting a fifth of the way through Hito's ISO because the guy was pushing me every other post.

Kindly fuck off. I'm one of the very few people who had a Tywin!Town read, and your bullshit pushes are doing work upending that.

yo, too much information makes you horseshit town. if you got a problem with that, you can tell it to my meticulously compiled, color-coded spreadsheet.

[Lycanfire]

That happened

[Lycanfire]

But you specifically do your sorting off of individual posts. There are less individual posts. Unless I'm misremembering your process from discord (I left the TM server so I can't check), the post count should be all that matters and the density should be irrelevant.

I didn't bother doing it for TM besides White Flag into where RVS "ended" for me because I caught CES. In the tiebreaker it was the

opposite

of what you're saying. I pegged the team because Leonshade had two interactions with his partner. One suggesting them as scum and then using mental gymnastics to sell them as town to GIF for the same reasons they were scummy. It was GIF that I said might have been scum just based on density alone (he interacted with everyone and never took his foot off the pedal).

i don't know what you're responding to here

I'm establishing that everything I was bringing up was still relevant to the current game state.

well he's townreading my strongest scumread idk why you think I would like that

and not really. Yes he might be scum. no he probably isn't. the previous two sentences are the definition of a town read my guy. 605 doesn't qualify as shading.

I never said I scumread you?

Then why did you vote me LMFAO. I literally established that Hito was fair game.

Who cares enough about interactions to sit and catalog them one by one in a spreadsheet, while ALSO caring little enough to be comfortable using interaction counts as they were circa the first third of the game? Surely raw counts are like, the poster child for "The more complete, the better" in terms of investigation methods?

I said I stopped doing it when Cooldog and KMD arrived because up until that point, they had about three each. I continued onto the next page to see where they would steer discussion onto now that they were presumably caught up. KMD wasn't there, Cooldog was pretty adversarial to Moi, Pine and OM. Of them I'd say he isn't partners with OM.

With no mention of what that means, and which one of those permutations is scummy (evidently lots of interactions AND few interactions both mean scumbuddies?)

Sure. If you ignore somebody all game, I'm gonna assume you have no reason to talk to them. Meanwhile if two people are super high up together, I want to see how their reads progress and if they work together. If somebody is all over the board interrogating everyone, they're also probably scum. It's less of a science and more of a springboard. If I see something strange and refer to a sheet and see one or two points I end up looking at my notes where I try to specifically write down that it's the first interaction and see how I felt at the time. All of these examples have gotten me scum before.

Attaching some nefarious motive to this is hilarious. If you think I'm scum, ask me something insightful. Beating your chest over a chart isn't the way to go.

[Lycanfire]

can you explain this? Because I'm really trying to understand you and your play and some of the theories you've presented are kinda whackadoo and I'm trying to figure out if this is irrational town that thinks they saw something early or bullshitting scum trying to hold on to some narrative they think they can build.

That first quote was taken out of context in that game. My

gut reaction

("feely bullshit") was that Llamarble was scummy, because he was being egotistical. Rather than let that feeling form my final opinion on him I kept thinking about his post and realized that it stunk so badly that it was scum bait. Cogito Ergo Scum voted him shortly after and at that point I was pretty sure I found scum, but it was early game (page 3?) so I made a nonsense vote with a nearly broken vote tag to point to later as "yeah by the way I found scum but wanted you all to keep talking so we didn't speedlynch scum and ruin day 1". The town didn't really get it, because they all thought they drew scum PMs. See this post if you actually care ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

As for what I meant in this game: scums can town up if they have no pressure on them. Reading how they interact with others might be helpful post-flip, but all it does is make you wonder if that post comes from town. You have to focus on the posts that come from scum, and push them on that, get feedback, and work from there.

I would probably still be pushing you if not for that hand wavy post Pine made to you in 429. The whole point about Pine's "cogdis" is pretty weak considering the entire playerlist wants to dump on OM. Seemingly it's Pine that doesn't seem to give a shit about you as a person which was different to how he was talking Chamber into not replacing out. Now there's some dissonance I can get behind.

--

Don't really like how everyone is poeing insanity while kmd got lynched IMO.

[Lycanfire]

want innocent children and moi humble pie so we have something to work with in this game

pedit fuck off josh

[Lycanfire]

I think in any case this is the right move.

I claim Even-night Cop.

I unequivocally believe that OM has an Odd-night specific role.

Whether he is claiming it because he has a guilty, or because he or a teammate has an odd-night rolecop I don't know, but at this point my role should be public knowledge because scum should (or will) know my role one way or another.

I suggest we breathe right now and not derphammer OM.

[Lycanfire]

pagetop

Want to take a look at the people that were doubting the IC claim.

990[/post-[post]991 is... Too damn prophetic for explaining lack of OM kill?

[Lycanfire]

But if OM is scum he can't kill himself

The btw lycanfine post after is already explained?

[Lycanfire]

you considered the motivations of what marble might be doing and looked into it, which is different from what you said here and where I'm going huh because there re-evaluation, here you say more information is bad for reads. The belief in reevaluation/lack of belief in reevaluation is what I'm trying to figure out. How does that not align with your other statement I quoted about you bullshitting as scum while as town there is no need to?

More information is bad if you're not around to sort it. Being told to RTFT to me was the same as telling me that I was sticking my nose where it didn't belong. It didn't actually

do

anything. For instance Moi insinuated that my question to him was already answered, but what he really wanted me to do was get to the part where OM claimed. My question wasn't actually answered (how do you feel about OM doing this townie thing). I think the point was that Moi still scumread the then IC-claimed OM and that should somehow tell me his opinion of X townie thing. Hito full stop didn't want to hear about Pine, and I felt like Pine's answer didn't actually solve Chamber's replace out.

I don't understand why Pine not giving a shit about me as a person means that we're not partnered? And this is something I was thinking about overnight because your original stance on our slots being partnered and taking each other to lylo and then chamber just being so disheartened that Pine got after him about the Eddie meta question doesn't make sense to me. Chamber had offered up some pretty choice barbs to Pine - you've got not only the join date one but the town hunting thing - so why would chamber become so down that Pine sniped back to him about his meta request on Eddie get him to fizzle further and further until he replaced out mean they were partners? Even if you don't believe it now because of something Pine said to me, I don't understand your thought process there.

I went back and forth with insanity about this. It's that Pine's interference with Chamber was hilariously anti-town and I needed to justify it in some way. It could have been a chainsaw for Eddie Cane but that still didn't explain the immediate nature of Pine's response. To me it seemed S+S and that Pine was trying to get free towncred for pushing the envelope against scum. It wasn't that I thought these slots were going to lylo, it's that I thought Pine was setting himself up to look good if Chamber were to flip. When I finished my re-read I saw your entrance and Pine's response and revised my read on your slot.

why do you think that insanity is town?

She was one of the few that gave a shit about what I was saying D1 even if she was combating what I was saying. My main gripe with her is her awful associatives with Axel, but I think Axel is town.

There were a group of people saying she was lynchable. At that point I felt like you and roflcopter made insanity an acceptable SR and Hito plainly fingered her as scum on a KMD townflip right afterwards.

he is also technically counter-claiming me?

Opposite, really, I think you definitely have an Odd night role and felt it was safe to claim.

Leaving my vote on Lycan. Whoever's town here should probably quit mafia. I joined this game to see some quality old players and not the garbage people around nowadays, off to a great start.

I can’t be a pessimist because I am alive. The question you gotta ask yourself –the question the white population has to ask itself—is why was it necessary to have scum in the first place. Because I’m not scum, I’m a man. But if you think I’m scum, it means you need it. And you gotta find out why. The future of the country depends on that.

[meth]

This 1/13/1/11 math nonsense isn't real. If OM thought I was scum or a PR, then almost every time I would be investigated.

After the very beginning I scum leaned Tywin,

but Lycan kind of redeemed the slot

. With Lycan redeeming the slot less and Hito dead (a very incriminating kill) I'm very happy lynching there today.

[Lycanfire]

"IC claim"

Pro: Roflcopter, Eddie Cane, insanity, Axel, Hitogorishi, Tammy, Lycanfire
Indifferent: Kmd, Ginngie
No opinion: firebringer, Cooldog, Morality
Anti: Pine, Kison, Moi, TL, PJ

I want to lynch in that last group {Pine, Moi} + add Eddie Cane. Kison is likely scum on an OM scumflip. 1080 is basically the scum dream with resolving the claims with lynches instead of reasoning.

Still feeling confident in my reads sans Hito. I want to know what the results of Pine's reread did for him. Josh is having to be dragged to game solve mountain when he's a player that needs reasons to rope people. Moi's 1087 seems to push morale for a lynch on me without selling the horse to go with the wagon. The reasoning isn't there (I believe that scum!OM wouldn't specifically claim Odd-night if he didn't infer that he had a counterpart to my role), neither is the vote. Making part of day about why OM wasn't killed is suspect too.

VOTE: Eddie Cane

Gonna squat on this for some positivity.

[Lycanfire]

Get off town before I change my mind about not lynching within the self resolving roles.

Talk Pine, or talk Mulch.

So let me ask you Lycan – why did you float the idea that he himself would not have to be the RoleCop as scum when Korts has already specifically told us scum don’t have Daytalk? He’d have no way to have the information on you as scum without he himself being the role since results come AFTER night ends and PTs get closed.

I don't know what any of this means.

You keep calling me scum and even backtrack on that. If all you want to do is call me scum, I'm questioning that in itself.

What is currently your read of Old Man? This post above states both town and scum possibilities.

What do you make of Old Man continuing to push for your lynch after your claim?

I think OM is town but I'm feeling torn on whether wanting to lynch me is scummier than not wanting to lynch me. For instance, if OM is scum could he simply push me and have his teammates counter the push? After all, he already got out of the IC dilemma. There is something to be said for wanting the lynch itself, like what I noted with Kison. I don't view my lynch as compulsory to proceed, but I can see both scum!with OM and scum!not with OM wanting me dead regardless-it's free-and also could explain away any night kill questions.

Basically I'm trying to determine which narrative is the scum narrative. If OM is scum, he isn't alone. The people wanting to lynch in the claims {Eddie, Kison, Axel} are doubly suspect IMO.

[Lycanfire]

You keep calling me scum and even backtrack on that. If all you want to do is call me scum, I'm questioning that in itself.

So why don't you quote where I've called you scum and where I've backtracked?

Can’t answer the question?

It's a dumb question

---

Let's build some consensus and go forward:

We can either lynch within OM or myself. 9/10 times, it's probably better to lynch me first. I won't like it, but I'd like it less if I was blindsided with a speedlynch. Pen your name if this is your jam.

With the matter of avoiding future asspulls averted I'd like for us to move forward.

I want to lynch in Eddie Cane/Moi/Pine right now.

Eddie Cane
- Lacks spirited push. The closest he was to his town meta was his vote on kmd and meta dive on Hito. Then his vote landed on me. See my arrow-missing-the-mark comment. Josh doesn't withhold the goods.
- Everything is supplementary evidence to Josh (Hito being killed, OM's claim, mathematics). He's beating the same low-information drum that isn't telling what motive he has wrt to OM's align. It's equally likely that this was a planned exercise or that was a coincidence. Yes, I did the meth.

Moi
- Don't like how he was directing Pine onto myself or Axel yesterday.
- His progression on Axel sucks. He goes from implying scum jumped on the wagon and that he's playing his town game, to saying his grace period is over. Moi gets spicy read developed which feels more prompted by Axel's eye gore response in post 695 and less about his case made

two weeks before

which boils down to "Pine asked Moi who to vote, Moi voted Axel, Pine voted Axel".
- I feel like 1094 was shit stirring to measure who was up to lynch OM today. I considered the possibility Moi is outlining here, but I think OM is town through play and I'm mostly happy with the stances people took in the case of him being scum.
- Basically, Moi's stance makes more sense if he knows OM is town.

Pine
- 130 rubs me the wrong way even if I don't think it's S+S.
- I don't like how he showed some support for my read on Hito day 1 and voted myself, then KMD when I was establishing that Hito was scummy. I was wrong on Hito, which is why I'm trying to not to read into the RTFT business as a means

not

to poke at Pine, but he never went for Hito himself. SUBTLE SUBTEXT
- Basically if he's town I need somebody to spell it out for me, because I've had several instances lately where I dragged the town to a lynch (or would have, god willing) in order to flip a townie while everybody was screaming me down not to do it. I need that here, because when I walk through Pine's posts my skin crawls with how he talks to Chamber, then he goes on to take positions already made acceptable for him.

Tammy: how are those townreads coming along?

[Lycanfire]

I'm going to try to catch up. I was reading along up until Tammy started talking about Micro-800A. I'm trying

my best

to cope with that loss but the commentary she gave before her replace out was disagreeable to say the least.

So yeah, that made me check out and I'm not feeling this game just like everyone else.

I think when the replacements get in we should just decide who to lynch. That always gets people engaged.

[Lycanfire]

Goes without saying that the replace ins have an ear and can contribute without reading 50 pages of walls. Like I said yesterday at one point I thought more about reading the game than actually reading it because I was literally not allowed to post without reading every single post.

Fuck that just be insightful

[Lycanfire]

I don't think town replaced out over toxicity, besides you, PJ, but you weren't town . I sort-of enabled that because I had nothing to say to Josh early game because I was "doing something else" with the early game drama that people will see in the mafia thread. Making commentary on it wasn't going to gel, so I asked him if he had bludgeoned anyone yet, then he immediately smacked you with a post. I was trying to present in the thread whether he was acting like he usually does, and I drew parallels to how he usually acts to his suspicion of KMD-I don't think I called him town for it but I said that Josh scumreads KMD from his position and it was nothing unusual. My question was vital to developing some kind of a read on Josh's play without poking at stuff I didn't want to.

I think they were replacing out because the latest adventure of Old Man reeked of bullshit or outed two PRs, but nobody knew what about it was wrong. This is around the time I stopped having to work against the town and started working in the town, so it seems like no coincidence to me that both Insanity and Tammy left when both of them had healthy suspicion of me.

Somebody messed up, or two scum just claimed together, but people didn't want to take the effort to decide which it was.

At least, that's my impression of what happened: I certainly wasn't going to win by mod kills, so my replace out was AI.

Interestingly when I was breaking down my case against Josh when I was under the impression he was "sticking to the plan" I said the exact opposite of what I said about him on D1. That I didn't believe Josh believes what he's saying when he does X, because he really wasn't at that point. I still had access to the mafia pt after replacing out and he lamented at some point that the bus was off and wanted me to clue in. We should have made a phrase to call off the plan, and I was the only one that felt threatened by Old Man on the team, while I mentioned he could be walking into day with a guilty, we were taken off guard when Old Man made another dubious claim that allowed me to get out of it. I know that Josh and Woofy both commented IN GAME THREAD that they disagreed with my decision, but at that point I was half believing Old Man was a traitor and half believing that town was misplaying. If I counterclaimed, it could have been me going down, and Old Man going free, and I was more ambitious than that.

[Lycanfire]

Ginngie the game was over. We established N1 that Cooldog was not lying. You were the second choice behind Kison, but were not shot because Kison was already proven. The next night you were going to be shot on your killing night and it would have been a scum win. Or PGO would have been shot with their role disabled: the team wavered on whether this was possible after I left, but the PGO was killable with the Fire/Momrangal slot alive.

I'm not in the mood to judge the setup but you were always losing if you didn't get shot on a commuter night with 3 towns alive. Korts made the right call.

[Lycanfire]

(Yes I know there was no way for OM to be a traitor with our graylist role being used by Fire/Momrangal. I still asked Korts on the last day if there was any mod mistake and cried over Momrangal/Eddie missing one another by 20 minutes and how hammering a traitor was still a win here.)

[Lycanfire]

Momrangal wasn't a roleblocker, she was our graylist role that could turn off Pine/Michel's roles.

The mafia actually had super strong roles but was dependent on the strongman and disabler, y'know, being alive. That's why I was a big advocate of using our PRs early to avoid a mess like Michel was suggesting (also I was guessing Old Man was definitely a PR-certainly not an IC, but BP or cop).

[Lycanfire]

Yes Old Man was a VT and even lied about being roleblocked. Another reason why I thought he was a traitor the mafia were not informed about that could not exist.