@Rigel: to answer your question, see the part below about how I feel that Justin's placing the second vote was designed to strengthen the wagon enough that it would reach a lynch. Answers to Justin follow.
Shteven wrote:
There is definitely something odd about his claims on vollkan and then vollkan voting for him, but I don't consider that vote worthy alone.
This was meant to mean that Kab's claims of understanding vollkan were strange, and that the reciprocation of vollkan voting for kab was also strange. It seems like more than a coincidence, and I can't help feeling like I should be able to see some connection, but I couldn't and can't tell what it means. It's likely just white noise, on further thought.
Justin Playfair wrote:
My vote was the second on Kabenon007, so the eager to lynch line doesn’t really play, nor does it make sense as part of a meta as I generally tend to cast a vote early based on my strongest suspicions. So could you explain how in this case it feels like I’m “eager to lynch”?
The second vote is the one that transforms it from one person's opinion to a (very small) wagon. It really picks up steam more around the 3rd/4th votes, but the second vote can be a good time for a scum player to nudge a case on a townie forward, while being early enough to avoid claims of wagoning the next day. Adding significant reasoning to it can also add staying power to the wagon - however, in your case, that's just normal meta. I'd be more concerned if you hadn't. So it seemed to me like your ultimate goal was to see the wagon through to the end. In other words, you seemed certain you weren't making a mistake.
Justin Playfair wrote:
Can you explain how my case being “100% true”can be made to comfortably coexist with your previous statement “I'm just not really seeing the case, honestly.”? This could just be a byproduct of what you said in your answer to Vollkan, that you mangled the earlier post, but on its face it certainly seems contradictory.
The tone part will be harder to explain, and I'd admit that it's flimsy. The 100% true part is simpler. You don't have to distort facts in order to make a bad case. If you're town you can honestly believe a case and still be wrong. If you're scum you can present true statements which simply don't prove the case (easy enough, as no 100% proof is ever really possible). Summarize some of the questionable things he's done, and then jump to the conclusion that he was scum based on it. Town players always make mistakes. Cases aren't built on perfect information, so at some point every case has to make a leap of faith. Going from "he said A, B, and C" to "he is scum" isn't always true. You got A, B, and C right, but I just didn't see the final "he is scum" as being very convincing.
Justin Playfair wrote:
Shteven, your posts above show that you’ve done no real scum hunting since suspicion first started turning against Kabenon007. You’ve given no reasons, outside of my dangerous self using a tone you didn’t like for not wanting to see Kabenon lynched. You’ve asked a total of one question to people on the Kabenon007 wagon. And if you are “concerned about lynching a town player” should you be willing, having done nothing to look for other suspects or poke holes in the case against Kabenon, to accept “the event you are lynched, which seems likely at this point.”?
Because the behavior above looks a lot more like someone who doesn’t want to be associated with a lynch than it does someone who doesn’t trust it and would like to see it stopped. To that end, Shteven, before deadline could you give us some idea of your suspicions, if you have any? And, if you have any, your specific problems with the case on Kabenon007?
Thank you for any responses.
This is entirely fair. I have been lazy. It could be an overreaction to my two other current games where I actively mislynched a town role on both day 1's. This game is somewhat on day 1, with the speedy day 1. In any case, you're right to call me on it, and I was wondering when someone would. Here's some suspects I have, although I'm not certain on them.
1) Justin. Obvious from the above and nothing solid, but as noted, I don't like the way you entered the kab wagon. It's hard for me to quantify this, because your posts are very well constructed. While some people hate the length, I'm somewhat on your side on that issue. It takes a lot of mental processing to get at your intentions behind them, which is what makes it effective. I feel I should mention you're also valuable as town, and so distrusting you is a risk - but I'm definitely afraid of you being scum.
2) I haven't liked Vollkan's style of postings. He seems to be moderating the discussion rather than participating it. I don't know if this is a consistent play style, but most of his posts are just explaining things that have gone on between other players, sometimes including himself, but not always. He hasn't really hunted scum much. (That's some grade A hypocrisy right there!) This may seem contradictory, but I actually feel a bit of an SK vibe from him. The contradiction being that the SK has nothing to lose and much to gain from hunting mafia. Hey, I never said I was certain.
3) And in what's the opposite of what you asked, I'm thinking my vote on farside is fairly pointless now. It never was much to go on in the first place. This actually was largely an attempt to give us more choices than Kabenon vs Kabenon - but that didn't take off. I hope she wasn't really scum looking for cop claims - but if I was a townie reading my posts, I'd probably have jumped on myself for being opportunistic. Being opportunistic is a pretty hard tell to get right frequently. I've been wrong a lot - and since this is basically the case I have on Justin, it only got an IGEMOY instead of a FOS.
Unvote
If I find more I'll be certain to post them, but if I had a lot more, I wouldn't have been in this position to start with.