Open 60: The New C9 - Game over!
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dahill1 bagel
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i managed to get ahold of a computer at a bed and breakfast i'm staying at so here is my response:
to laptopgun--it geniunely was a newb mistake for the jesse suspicion, i thought there was only one cop so then he would be lying..the reason i didn't vote him was because as i said before, justin never confronted jesse for some reason so it must have been a good one. now i believe there to be 2 cops, hence my reversal
to vollkan--i voted for spacecase because his avoidance of questions
however he now has an excuse for lack of posting, but my vote will stay on him until he answers-
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dahill1 bagel
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dahill1 bagel
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dahill1
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what can i say..i'm lovableAlso, everyone seems to have given dahill a pass on the basis of his response. I'm not sure, if the initial thing was really worth attacking, then his response was adequate. And LTG's attack on dahill's entrance was uncharacteristically forceful, to then drop it pretty much immediately... something's odd there. Not necessarily scummy-odd, but I'm not sure of the rationale.-
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dahill1
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dahill1 bagel
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dahill1 bagel
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dahill1 bagel
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dahill1 bagel
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dahill1 bagel
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Mod: it's 5 voting for SC not 4
rigel, to please you i'll make a list
Spacecase: scummy, flip-flopped on the kab vote (already mentioned)
Phate: scummy, didn't know cipher claimed cop, also a "Bizarro Spacecase" as Cipher put it, changed opinion quickly on kab as well just like spacecase
(possible scumbuddies?)
so far these are the people i think are the most scummy
i'm also waiting for perfectiondoesntexist to finish the thread/analyze-
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dahill1 bagel
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Rigel wrote: Umm...you didn't appear to know that Cipher had claimed cop either...
i didn't not know jesse/cipher was cop i just assumed there was only one cop in the game, which i then realized my mistake laterIf his not knowing that Cipher is a cop is scummy, then so is you not knowing that Jesse is a cop.
fonz, how does it not make sense? if justin was the cop, and he did not have reason to suspect jesse, than why should i?-
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dahill1 bagel
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dahill1 bagel
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I did vote jesse because i thought there was one cop. as for the second sentence, it's just a matter of opinion. i feel my fos was justified, but it wasn't.The Fonz wrote:If you'd voted Jesse, apparently not understanding there could be multiple cops, it'd make reasonable sense. To believe that Jesse was fakeclaiming, but it's ok because Justin didn't say anything about it, is ludicrous.-
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dahill1 bagel
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dahill1 bagel
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dahill1 bagel
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That is true and could very well be true for phate as well.Shteven wrote:It's certainly odd, yet it's true that there are many mistakes that can be made in mafia that don't truly yield any role information.
but for right now i want to focus the attention on spacecase, so we can see what happens after he's lynched (if he is)-
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dahill1 bagel
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dahill1 bagel
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dahill1 bagel
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you're right we should focus attention where necessary, but i think right now that spacecase probably will be scum, and my only other suspicion is phate. we should lynch either phate or spacecase, and then depending on their role, look back on connections, etc.MadCrawdad wrote:MadCrawdad wrote:dahill1 wrote:That is true and could very well be true for phate as well.
but for right now i want to focus the attention on spacecase, so we can see what happens after he's lynched (if he is)@dahill
This comment is interesting, to say the least...
Wouldn't you agree that it's more pro-town to focus attention where necessary (to try to maximize the chances of lynching scum), versus focusing all attention on one individual in hopes that more information will come to light after the lynch?-
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dahill1 bagel
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but wouldn't you agree that anyone that is anti-town should lynched?vollkan wrote:
Pointless, wishy washy and contradictory are all valid scumtells in most cirumcstances...but lurking? It is easy to lurk and it can help scum, but lurking is not itselffarside22 wrote:
Pointless comments, wishy washy and contraditory or also how I evaluate scum. Lurkers go on there because it's easy not to say much and vote out town as scum then trying to be involved in the conversation.MadCrawdad wrote:farside22 wrote:@MCD: I know I'm not around as much, but I did state the following that still hasn't been answered or commented on. <snip>@ farside
Here's a quote where you mention that most of the time, lurkers are scum. As we've got several of them in this game, do you stand by your comment that most lurkers are scum?
farside22 wrote:
It was also his lack of reasoning when he voted. Lurkers can sometimes be scum (most times). Depends on the person and if they know how to bluff well in these games.Shteven wrote:P.S. Didn't like the case on melody man day 2, still don't. Seems to basically be "he's lurking". Probably right on that, doesn't sell me as him being scum though.scummy. Anti-town, sure, but not scummy.
i say either let them participate or lynch them-
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dahill1 bagel
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his scum partners could either be bussing him right now, or they realized he's a lost cause and just let him be lycnhedLaptopGun wrote:@Fonz I am more inclined to believe that Spacecase is town based on 2 things, neither of which are particuarly strong. I think the stupidity factor seems to say stupid town than stupid mafia. This is admitedly speculation, but I would have thought that scum partners would defend him by now. Additionally, today's wagon bears an awfully strange resemblance to the one on Kab, and we know how that one turned out. Like I said, this is by no means great reasons, but it's enough so I'm not voting him.
but you're right about this they could be already on the wagon, and putting the scumminess on towniesLaptopGun wrote:@Shteven I'm thinking a third option. Some mafia are on the wagon, but not all. They want to have townies provide the last few votes so they look scummy. They then can use some of the same arguments against Spacecase on the voter(s).-
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dahill1 bagel
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i'm not trying to rush the lynch..spacecase is lurking and avoiding, and i want pressure for that exact reasonvollkan wrote:
I am none too keen on the way you are trying to build up this wagon by calling for a "pressure L-1". No significant increase in pressure will result from L-1 as opposed to L-2.dahill wrote: but how about pressure L-1?
Spacecase has begun lurking, which suggests avoidance. That in itself may or may not be scummy, but the fact that things are moving so slowly adds further cause for concern.-
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dahill1 bagel
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thats not my reason for suspecting you..Phate wrote:dahill, your entire reason for suspecting me (without voting me, just gauging the waters) is that other people are on the wagon? You don't even take the time to find and echo their reasons, you just say 'good enough for them, good enough for me?'
That was an incredibly scummy post.
i just pointed out that the SC wagon was slowing, and you happened to be the next suspect on my (and others') list. my reasons for suspecting you is because you switched quickly from saying Kab is town to heavily suspecting him, just like Spacecase. also, as i pointed out before, you hadn't realized cipher had claimed which is scummy in my book. scum don't always have to read through the thread. they can just look for when they are mentioned and defend themselves to slip by. i'm not saying scum always do that, but it is more likely for scum than town to do that. furthermore, the fact that the confirmed townie and cop suspect you does somewhat contribute to my suspicion. i think that even though he might not have investigated you, Cipher's opinion should be the most highly valued because of his pro-town power role. LaptopGun also should have a valued opinion because he is confirmed town. there is a chance he could be the GF, but i believe him to be town.
those are my reasons
vote phate-
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dahill1 bagel
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dahill1 bagel
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okay melody man was just a bad player. i've seen his games (and replaced in a few as well), and so far he has acted like that regardless of alignment.
and i never said the fact that they are confirmed means they are right or wrong. but shouldn't we trust what the cop says more than someone else? this is not me trying to "act town", it's what i genuinely believe; that cops should have more say in a lynch than other unconfirmed players.
p.s. it seems to me that phate saw a wagon to jump on and did so by just using the "for reasons previously stated" line. phate, can you elaborate on why you think i'm scum, in your own words?-
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dahill1 bagel
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of course it doesn't mean that phate is 100% guaranteed scum, but in my mind it contributes to it. also, that was clearly not my sole reason for voting for phate, as people are making it out to be.MadCrawdad wrote:
As far as trusting what the cop says more than someone else, while the cop's intentions can be trusted, that doesn't mean that their scum picks are correct. Simply voting someone because 'the cop says we should' could give you a free pass if the lynch were to go bad and the lynchee end up townie. Don't you think?dahill1 wrote:okay melody man was just a bad player. i've seen his games (and replaced in a few as well), and so far he has acted like that regardless of alignment.
and i never said the fact that they are confirmed means they are right or wrong. but shouldn't we trust what the cop says more than someone else? this is not me trying to "act town", it's what i genuinely believe; that cops should have more say in a lynch than other unconfirmed players.
p.s. it seems to me that phate saw a wagon to jump on and did so by just using the "for reasons previously stated" line. phate, can you elaborate on why you think i'm scum, in your own words?
i asked this question because i wanted to know if, at the time, SC thought Justin was scum. the info i wished to recieve was along the lines of.."i thought _____ of him then, i think _____ of him now"MadCrawdad wrote:@dahill again
Earlier on Day 3, SC was asked to further describe his thought process on how he came to hammer Kabenon. The post below was eventually pulled out of him, and although incomplete, it was a start. In the post, SC says that he though the bandwagon on Kab was scum-driven at some point.
Now here's a question you posed based on SC's post above.Spacecase wrote:Alright maybe I try to explain better why I voted to kill Kab. When the first post happened I thought that the wagon was a scum driven wagon. I didn't think that he was scum at all. But, what Kab said 15 posts later changed my opinion. You can't tell me that you have never changed your opinion 10 to 20 posts later.
I hope that this gives you a better understanding of my thought process.
Can you explain why you asked this question? What info were you hoping to get from an answer?dahill1 wrote:on the kab bandwagon justin fairplay was the second to vote..
did you think he was part of the scum driving it?
also, people seem to be undermining my main reason of voting phate, and have no problem jumping on to my wagon-
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dahill1 bagel
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phate i believe i already answered your question..dahill1 wrote:
thats not my reason for suspecting you..Phate wrote:dahill, your entire reason for suspecting me (without voting me, just gauging the waters) is that other people are on the wagon? You don't even take the time to find and echo their reasons, you just say 'good enough for them, good enough for me?'
That was an incredibly scummy post.
i just pointed out that the SC wagon was slowing, and you happened to be the next suspect on my (and others') list. my reasons for suspecting you is because you switched quickly from saying Kab is town to heavily suspecting him, just like Spacecase. also, as i pointed out before, you hadn't realized cipher had claimed which is scummy in my book. scum don't always have to read through the thread. they can just look for when they are mentioned and defend themselves to slip by. i'm not saying scum always do that, but it is more likely for scum than town to do that. furthermore, the fact that the confirmed townie and cop suspect you does somewhat contribute to my suspicion. i think that even though he might not have investigated you, Cipher's opinion should be the most highly valued because of his pro-town power role. LaptopGun also should have a valued opinion because he is confirmed town. there is a chance he could be the GF, but i believe him to be town.
those are my reasons
vote phate-
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dahill1 bagel
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i was replaced after justin died, so i can't really say what i thought of him without having the bias of already knowing he was a cop. however, i think whoever he investigated on nights 0 and 1 he got innocent on them, because he suspected lots of people but did not focus on one specifically. also when reading back, i saw that in one post Justin made a comment specifically directed towards Phate. in it, he mentioned that Jesse had claimed cop and now, just recently, PhateMadCrawdad wrote:
I'm not jumping on any wagon, just asking a question...dahill1 wrote:
i asked this question because i wanted to know if, at the time, SC thought Justin was scum. the info i wished to recieve was along the lines of.."i thought _____ of him then, i think _____ of him now"MadCrawdad wrote:@dahill again
Earlier on Day 3, SC was asked to further describe his thought process on how he came to hammer Kabenon. The post below was eventually pulled out of him, and although incomplete, it was a start. In the post, SC says that he though the bandwagon on Kab was scum-driven at some point.
Now here's a question you posed based on SC's post above.Spacecase wrote:Alright maybe I try to explain better why I voted to kill Kab. When the first post happened I thought that the wagon was a scum driven wagon. I didn't think that he was scum at all. But, what Kab said 15 posts later changed my opinion. You can't tell me that you have never changed your opinion 10 to 20 posts later.
I hope that this gives you a better understanding of my thought process.
Can you explain why you asked this question? What info were you hoping to get from an answer?dahill1 wrote:on the kab bandwagon justin fairplay was the second to vote..
did you think he was part of the scum driving it?
also, people seem to be undermining my main reason of voting phate, and have no problem jumping on to my wagon
We know what everyone thinks of Justin now, what did you think of Justin then?-
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i was replaced after justin died, so i can't really say what i thought of him without having the bias of already knowing he was a cop. however, i think whoever he investigated on nights 0 and 1 he got innocent on them, because he suspected lots of people but did not focus on one specifically. also when reading back, i saw that in one post Justin made a comment specifically directed towards Phate. In it, he mentioned that Jesse had claimed cop and, unless he just skipped over that post, Phate recently claimed to have not known of the cop claimMadCrawdad wrote:
I'm not jumping on any wagon, just asking a question...dahill1 wrote:
i asked this question because i wanted to know if, at the time, SC thought Justin was scum. the info i wished to recieve was along the lines of.."i thought _____ of him then, i think _____ of him now"MadCrawdad wrote:@dahill again
Earlier on Day 3, SC was asked to further describe his thought process on how he came to hammer Kabenon. The post below was eventually pulled out of him, and although incomplete, it was a start. In the post, SC says that he though the bandwagon on Kab was scum-driven at some point.
Now here's a question you posed based on SC's post above.Spacecase wrote:Alright maybe I try to explain better why I voted to kill Kab. When the first post happened I thought that the wagon was a scum driven wagon. I didn't think that he was scum at all. But, what Kab said 15 posts later changed my opinion. You can't tell me that you have never changed your opinion 10 to 20 posts later.
I hope that this gives you a better understanding of my thought process.
Can you explain why you asked this question? What info were you hoping to get from an answer?dahill1 wrote:on the kab bandwagon justin fairplay was the second to vote..
did you think he was part of the scum driving it?
also, people seem to be undermining my main reason of voting phate, and have no problem jumping on to my wagon
We know what everyone thinks of Justin now, what did you think of Justin then?-
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dahill1 bagel
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well not exactly for the cop because he is only sure if he gets a guilty, but we can always trust the cop. i'm not 100% sure about Phate, but right now i'm happy with my vote.The Fonz wrote:
But doesn't the likelihood of them being right or wrong influence the extent to which they can be trusted?dahill1 wrote: and i never said the fact that they are confirmed means they are right or wrong. but shouldn't we trust what the cop says more than someone else? this is not me trying to "act town", it's what i genuinely believe; that cops should have more say in a lynch than other unconfirmed players.
i already mentioned that LTG could be a GF or SKThe Fonz wrote:I've commented to disagree with one post you've made before, and I gave reasons there. If you don't see why it's in the town's interests to point out that dahill is wrong to refer to you as confirmed town, then I don't really know what I can say to you.-
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dahill1 bagel
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i unvoted Spacecase because it looked like to me that it was slowing down, and Phate seemed like a better choice to me. i haven't cleared my suspicions of Spacecase entirely, but Phate seems more suspicious right now. i didn't unvote SC because of his claim, that pretty much was a null-tell for me. and it wasn't a weak case either, it's just the BW slowed down and Phate was a better choice for meThe Fonz wrote:Oh, and dahill, can you explain your unvote of spacecase?
Was his townie claim so brilliant and unexpected it cleared him in your eyes?
Was the case so weak that you'd hop off at any sign of resistance?
Yes, these are leading questions.-
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dahill1 bagel
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i unvoted because it appeared no one else was going to vote him. in fact, i think some people unvoted him. as for your next question, i don't think we can tell right now whether it has to do with his alignment or not. it was Shteven, i believe, who said that a BW can slow down for a variety of reasons.
Phate seems to me at this point more likely to be scum than anyone else because he made a quick reversal from saying kab was town to voting for him. he had failed to notice that cipher/jesse was a cop even after seeing it more than once before (unless he skipped the posts), and to a much much lesser extent, cipher suspects him
i would vote for either Phate or SC right now, but an SC lynch doesn't seem like it's going to happen.-
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it didn't appear to me that SC was going to be lynched, so I voted Phate and made a case against him because he was the next most suspicious.vollkan wrote:
How exactly does that affect you justifiably unvoting?dahill wrote: i unvoted because it appeared no one else was going to vote him. in fact, i think some people unvoted him.-
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1) Yesvollkan wrote:
The purpose of lynching is to lynch scum? Yes or No.dahill1 wrote:
it didn't appear to me that SC was going to be lynched, so I voted Phate and made a case against him because he was the next most suspicious.vollkan wrote:
How exactly does that affect you justifiably unvoting?dahill wrote: i unvoted because it appeared no one else was going to vote him. in fact, i think some people unvoted him.
If yes: The best player to push a lynch of is the scummiest player? Yes or No.
If yes: Why then are you voting your second most suspect?
2) Yes
3) The lack of particpation seemed to indicate that he was not going to be lynched.-
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well, overall, the difference in scumminess was very little. in fact, to me they were practically the same but we just decided to lynch SC first.vollkan wrote:To try and understand this:
You are saying that the difference in scumminess is made up for by the fact that SC's lynch seemed less likely to go ahead?
If so, why? I also don't accept "lack of participation" as a reason. That may have as much to do with people just being bored as with lack of enthusiasm about SC.-
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rigel,
first of all have you read in to the case against Phate? because it's more than just him not posting that often. and again, i keep saying this but everyone seems to ignore it, i did not vote for Phate just because 2 other people voted for him! that is one of my very minor reasons, and again it was more because of Cipher than because of LTG as i said before. i'm still in support of a SC lynch, but as i have stated, it did not appear like it was going to happen to me, so i switched to Phate-
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Phate wrote:@MadCrawdad: The case on kab isn't great, in my opinion. I don't think he's scum. I think that there are scum on the wagon. If a kablynch is the play, I'd like to start preemptively looking at who's most likely to be scum in the event of his being town/scum.
you say "i don't think he's scum" and then that you would vote for him but the only reason you're not is because he'd be at L-1.Phate wrote:This is where I would vote kab, except that it would put him at L-1
also, it's not just your lack of attentiveness but you clearly had previously acknowledged that Cipher/Jesse had claimed. it just seemed weird to me that you would somehow forget later and accuse me of fishing-
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you noticed the rigel--farside connection, and i also wanted to point out that as soon as i made a case against phate and voted for him, farside voted for me almost immediatlyLoudmouthLee wrote:Wow, this game is SLOW.
There is no discussion, no action.
@Others: How do you feel about Rigel? Shteven?
as for shteven, i think madcrawdad makes the best point with this post
shteven implied that he did read through rigel's post with his commentMadCrawdad wrote:I'm sayingthat Rigel posted his argument for lynching SC regardless of affiliation, and you specifically said'How can people read Rigel's last post and not be voting Spacecase? It's about that time...'This would imply to me that you did read Rigel's argument, and found it quite compelling. So much so that you question why EVERYONE was not voting SC at that time.
and he also clearly said "how can people not be voting SC now?"-
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QFTShteven wrote:Phate: Are you concerned with whether or not Spacecase is scum? From the above post, it doesn't seem so.
also rereading the cases, Rigel looks like the best lynch today to me because of his defense of farside and he seemed to be overdefensive when LML accused him, and tomorrow it will provide us with a better chance of finding scum depending on what his role is/night actions
Vote Rigel-
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